Must Watch Video, MASSIVE Mortgage Fraud in Foreclosure

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  • Fri, Oct 01, 2010 - 10:06pm

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    Re: Must Watch Video, MASSIVE Mortgage Fraud in Foreclosure

Someone needed to get him a glass of water.

  • Fri, Oct 01, 2010 - 11:29pm

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    Re: Must Watch Video, MASSIVE Mortgage Fraud in Foreclosure

Come on folks, if the guy who paid cash has a deed, he could prove he owned the house.  His title paperwork would show how much he paid, and how he is in possession of the deed.  His property tax records would also prove he’s the owner.  Grayson is a snake, just like many in Congress, who need to get re-elected.  I just saw a Yahoo article, which listed the 15 richest in Congress, and he’s close to the top.  Think he got there by being a saint??  I’m not surprised he’s gone to such lengths to defend his political position.  These are signs of a desperate man.  We need to vote his kind out, and fast.

  • Fri, Oct 01, 2010 - 11:46pm

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    Re: Must Watch Video, MASSIVE Mortgage Fraud in Foreclosure

[quote=JustinChase]

First, I’ll admit I only watched the first 30 seconds or so, but let me tell you, he’s an idiot; and has NO IDEA what he’s talking about.

there is no mortgage “fraud”, the servicers are just processing the foreclosure documents too fast, and the people signing the foreclosure documents are not physically verifying every detail of every foreclosure (that is the complaint; and admission by GMAC & Chase).

This does not equate to fraud.  it’s just laziness and bad management.

The people foreclosed on are almost always (99.xxx% of the time) being done so correctly (except for the affadavit being not personally verified) and all this will do is delay the eventual final crash of the housing market.

These people will still get foreclosed on, rightfully so, just 6 to 12 months down the road, if even that long.

That does not mean the banks are saints, or even good businesses, but it’s certainly not fraud.

[/quote]Dude, you need to watch the video. One guy did a cash purchase, a NO effing mortgage purchase of a property vis a vis a short sale. He wired the cash to BOA. BOA foreclosed and TOOK his effing title.

There are laws we play by. It is criminal to forge documents. Go drive around without a license what’ll happen. Go drive without a real license and forge one with your scanner see what happens to you. Wake the eff up. Banks are NOT above the law. They want to take a house back fine – but if they don’t have the papers they needed to file with the court then EFF them. And if they hire a forging company to get the home with forged documents because they were too effing cheap then EFF them they need to go to jail.

Watch the video. Then come back with something worth saying but your comment is so apathetic that I’m so not surprised why we are where we are today. I suppose you think that tossing the banks – who blew up the economy with these @ssine loans was also a good idea? Are you related to Geithner?

And to the moderators, feel free to yank this without emailing me if it negated the guidelines. I’m not up to wording this nicely. THIS IS WHY WE ARE WHERE WE ARE TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Fri, Oct 01, 2010 - 11:58pm

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    Re: Must Watch Video, MASSIVE Mortgage Fraud in Foreclosure

[quote=nawalters]

Come on folks, if the guy who paid cash has a deed, he could prove he owned the house.  His title paperwork would show how much he paid, and how he is in possession of the deed.  His property tax records would also prove he’s the owner.  Grayson is a snake, just like many in Congress, who need to get re-elected.  I just saw a Yahoo article, which listed the 15 richest in Congress, and he’s close to the top.  Think he got there by being a saint??  I’m not surprised he’s gone to such lengths to defend his political position.  These are signs of a desperate man.  We need to vote his kind out, and fast.

[/quote]You have gotta be kidding me. A home represents the largest portion of most peoples net worth. This is akin to flying a plane or doing surgery – IT US UNACCEPTABLE TO MAKE A MISTAKE.

If you paid cash for your home and the bank messed up I seriously doubt you’d be so nonchalant. Besides, 2/3rds of the tape is about forgery.

What country is this where we accept fraud and @ssine mistakes?

I’m appalled. I’m even more appalled to read posts like this on this fine blog. I DIN’T WASTE MY TIME POSTING THIS FOR IT TO BE USED AS A 2/3RDS OF CONGRESS ARE MILLIONAIRES. I POSTED THIS BECAUSE IT DEALS WITH FRAUD COMMITTED BY THE BANKS, FRAUD USING FORGED INSTRUMENTS THAT WERE GIVEN TO THE COURTS.

I despise Grayson but wtf is my congressclown – or yours?

This is why America is so jacked. People just go off on some idiot because he is a Democrat, a Liberal or a Republican – they get their head stuck so far up there that they neglect to realize that fraud like this is sooooooooo dangerous.

I’m appalled. Truly appalled.

  • Sat, Oct 02, 2010 - 01:34am

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    Re: Must Watch Video, MASSIVE Mortgage Fraud in Foreclosure

[quote=land2341]

Sorry Justin I respectfully disagree.

In many cases people are being told by the bank that they are eligible for restructuring and TOLD to stop making payments or make lower payments.  After anywhere from 5 to 9 months goes by they are sent a notice that they’re not eligible and that they are now in arrears.  They are then notified that they are already in foreclosure which in several cases (these have been well documented by some advocates and followed up by the Philadelphia Inq)  has been filed months prior to the home owner being notified.

There is another well documented case where the community board of a condo foreclosed on a soldier while he was deployed.  His wife told them repeatedly that he was deployed but the head of the board testified that the soldier was not deployed.  The house was foreclosed upon and then sold to the brother of the board head.  This one aroused such anger that criminal charges have indeed been filed.

Then they are told they must come up with a very large sum of cash to stop the process.  The drowning man reaches a hand out for help and is told over and over that a life ring will arrive shortly.  Then they drop a brick on his head.[/quote]

No need to apologize for disagreeing, however, you’re simply giving the banks WAAAYYY too much credit; they’re just not organized/smart enough to be doing this on purpose.

First, you may have heard stories of hundreds or even thousands of people who got a raw deal by the banks, including those you mention; and MUCH worse.  Yes, this certainly happens; but there will be over ONE MILLION foreclosures this year, and statistically, those few thousand are a very, very small minority that have these kinds of issues.

Even if it was rampant behavior, it’s not maliciousness on the part of the bank, it’s simple stupidity.  They have gone from thousands of foreclosures to over a million in 2 years.  they were/are not staffed for that kind of volume.  they hire anyone they can find to do the work of trying to manage all of the modification programs (which are constantly changing, and poorly planned from the start), and they make mistakes; lots of mistakes.

it costs the banks A LOT of money to foreclose and put a property thru the foreclosure and REO process.  they really don’t want to do it, it’s too expensive.  They just suck at it, and do it very poorly, which leads to the stories you’re hearing in the news.

Fraud implies that there is malicious intent; and there simply isn’t any intent to do this to people.  Rather it’s a lack of planning and preparation to handle the volume of foreclosures they are seeing.

Are they evil and destroying the lives of people; sure.  But the maliciousness was done years ago, in the form of rampant greed.  Account executives soliciting these subprime loans were making hundreds of thousands a year (each) for guiding people into these terrible loans, and all layers of management were making more than that.  NO ONE cared about a buyers ability to repay these loans, only their ability to qualify for them, and how much they could charge the “customers” when they wrote the loans (often in the tens of thousands of dollars at the time of closing, from what they charged the borrowers directly, plus what the lender paid on the back end).

Buyers were qualified on whether or not they could “afford” the original teaser rates, NEVER whether they could pay the payments after the teaser/ARM rates went up.  some companies would qualify buyers at up to 60% GROSS income for housing expenses and payments reported to the credit bureaus, based on the teaser rate!!!  15% taxes and a meal a day would take them to 80% of their net income, and that didn’t leave anything for paying the electric bill or putting gas in the car.  No one really even considered their ablility to pay after the rates went up, but Wall Street couldn’t buy these loans fast enough.  The demand for this sh*tty paper was astounding.  BTW, these are now called “toxic assets”, but 5 years ago, they were treated like gold, and EVERYONE wanted in on them!

That might be considered fraud, maybe not; it was likely malicious, but that’s not what this idiot is complaining about.  He’s claiming fraud in the foreclosure process, and it’s not fraud, it’s poor management and laziness (again/still)

This latest news about the foreclosure process problem got started when GMAC admitted to not reviewing all the paperwork, which was because the person signing all the paperwork didn’t have the time to review everything, but said they did.  The people being foreclosed on are/were not making payments (because they have crappy loans, initiated years ago) and were/are “rightfully” foreclosed on, just not done “correctly”, basically based on a technicality.

I don’t want anyone to think I think this is all okay, it’s not, but I do want people to be clear about the problems.  it was stupid greedy lending years ago that caused all this. (remember all the hubub about predatory lending?)  That still puts the blame squarely on Wall Street, but this is a function of years of lending stupidity, coupled with current servicing stupidity.

Now it’s just really bad processing getting the servicers in the news.

Full Disclosure: I’ve been in the mortgage/real estate/servicing business for a long time, I’ve seen this happening for years.  It’s not going to get better any time soon; sorry 🙁

  • Sat, Oct 02, 2010 - 02:02am

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    Re: Must Watch Video, MASSIVE Mortgage Fraud in Foreclosure

We‘ll just have to see how all this plays out in terms of the significance of its impact — white, grey, or black swan.

But as far as obliquely apologizing for criminal behavior at the institutional level, I think Davos’ responses sum up quite well the feelings of the balance of people on the matter — at least ones who aren’t in the biz.

  • Sat, Oct 02, 2010 - 02:17am

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    Re: Must Watch Video, MASSIVE Mortgage Fraud in Foreclosure

[quote=Davos]

Dude, you need to watch the video. One guy  a NO effing mortgage purchase of a property vis a vis a short sale. He wired the cash to BOA. BOA foreclosed and TOOK his effing title.

[/quote]

Dude, calm down.  One guy did a cash purchase,…

Out of almost 2 million foreclosures since this started.  That’s fewer mistakes than most businesses make.  it’s a HUGE mistake, yes, but you’re missing the point.

The banks are incompetent.  They are not trying to defraud the public in order to take back houses that will cost then HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars in losses to finally resell.  They suck at this, from the bad loans, to bad processing to lazy processes leading to stupid things like this happening.

It is clearly horrible what happened to that one guy, and the thousands of others who have been treated horribly.

But this is like saying all car dealers are trying to destroy all our cars because one of them mistakenly sentthis one guys car to the crusher.  You’re focused on the wrong things.

if energy is spent on trying to “catch” the banks for defrauding the public in the foreclosure process, no one looks at the real problem, which is that the big banks are run by incompetent greedy people focused on making obscene amounts of money no matter who they have to hurt to do it, and then their LONG-TIME friends and colleagues who now hold positions of power in the hugely corrupt government throw billions of dollars at them to “fix the economy.”

its’ akin to saying a person is a bad driver because he’s talking on the phone while he’s driving, but not bothering to look into the fact that he’s shooting heroin while throwing dynamite out the window and driving into crowds of children at 100 mph.

it’s focusing on the wrong problem; completely, and it keeps attention off the real problem.

I just watched the video in full, and he is a bigger idiot than I thought.  He’s so completely wrong about so many things, it takes any credibility away from his position.

He claims servicers don’t make money by servicing assets; in fact they make billions by servicing assets.  

He claims they *want* to take peoples homes because they get paid $6000 for each one.  The servicers pay close to that just offer “cash for keys” to the occupants to vacate the houses they take in foreclosure, plus paying takes, plus maintenence, plus selling costs, plus processing costs, on and on and on.

In fact, they lose billions in foreclosures, and would much rather borrowers just pay the mortgage payment every month. (they should have thought about that years ago)

the list goes on, but I think my last post covers most of what I see as the problem, aside from this idiot pretending to know something so he can get re-elected.

according to the Ocala Business Journal

“U.S. Rep. Alan Grayson has announced a big haul in campaign contributions for the month of August…Grayson’s campaign claimed to have received more than $500,000 in donations during August, which pushed the freshman lawmaker’s total contributions beyond the $4 million mark”

I’m sure that receiving over $4 MILLION IN BRIBES (I always replace “campaign contribution” with “bribe”, it helps one see the situation more clearly), almost certainly from large corporate business interests and lobbyists keeps him very concerned about what the average homeowner needs and wants out of Washington.

Wake up people.

It’s slight of hand.  Hey look over here at the talking head saying how they know how you’ve been wronged; all the while the puppeteer is removing every last dime from your pockets.

Don’t be fooled.  He knows exactly as much about the mortgage servicing process as he does about brain surgery.  His research into this was likely a 30 minute primer from an intern who interviewed 10 people that were unhappy about how they got screwed.

Again; let me make myself absolutely clear; Wall Street banks screwed this country completely in this mortgage debacle, and they deserve to pay for that, but this clown is taking energy away from what should be the real focus because of his crying wolf.

Wait until the Student Loan “bubble” crashes, or the credit card “bubble” catches up with us.

No one seems to be looking at the big, systemic problems of letting the bankers control the people that make the rules.  Big shock the rules favor big banks and corporations.

  • Sat, Oct 02, 2010 - 02:26am

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    Re: Must Watch Video, MASSIVE Mortgage Fraud in Foreclosure

[quote=mainecooncat]

We‘ll just have to see how all this plays out in terms of the significance of its impact — white, grey, or black swan.

But as far as obliquely apologizing for criminal behavior at the institutional level, I think Davos’ responses sum up quite well the feelings of the balance of people on the matter — at least ones who aren’t in the biz.

 

[/quote]

I agree, but I think it will only delay the foreclosures, which will just delay home prices finding the true bottom, and extending the problem, just like the home-buyer credit did.  It won’t result in people who don’t make their payments getting to keep their houses without making payments.

I certainly hope no one thinks I’m trying to apologize for the negligent behavior at the institutional level; it’s completely unacceptable.

I’m just trying to point out that people are focused on the wrong problem.  this is a problem for sure, but it’s not where energy should be focused.

  • Sat, Oct 02, 2010 - 02:45am

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    Re: Must Watch Video, MASSIVE Mortgage Fraud in Foreclosure

[quote=JustinChase]

[quote=Davos]

Dude, you need to watch the video. One guy  a NO effing mortgage purchase of a property vis a vis a short sale. He wired the cash to BOA. BOA foreclosed and TOOK his effing title.

[/quote]

Dude, calm down.  One guy did a cash purchase,…

Out of almost 2 million foreclosures since this started.  That’s fewer mistakes than most businesses make.  it’s a HUGE mistake, yes, but you’re missing the point.

The banks are incompetent.  They are not trying to defraud the public in order to take back houses that will cost then HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars in losses to finally resell.  They suck at this, from the bad loans, to bad processing to lazy processes leading to stupid things like this happening.

It is clearly horrible what happened to that one guy, and the thousands of others who have been treated horribly.

But this is like saying all car dealers are trying to destroy all our cars because one of them mistakenly sentthis one guys car to the crusher.  You’re focused on the wrong things.

if energy is spent on trying to “catch” the banks for defrauding the public in the foreclosure process, no one looks at the real problem, which is that the big banks are run by incompetent greedy people focused on making obscene amounts of money no matter who they have to hurt to do it, and then their LONG-TIME friends and colleagues who now hold positions of power in the hugely corrupt government throw billions of dollars at them to “fix the economy.”

its’ akin to saying a person is a bad driver because he’s talking on the phone while he’s driving, but not bothering to look into the fact that he’s shooting heroin while throwing dynamite out the window and driving into crowds of children at 100 mph.

it’s focusing on the wrong problem; completely, and it keeps attention off the real problem.

I just watched the video in full, and he is a bigger idiot than I thought.  He’s so completely wrong about so many things, it takes any credibility away from his position.

He claims servicers don’t make money by servicing assets; in fact they make billions by servicing assets.  

He claims they *want* to take peoples homes because they get paid $6000 for each one.  The servicers pay close to that just offer “cash for keys” to the occupants to vacate the houses they take in foreclosure, plus paying takes, plus maintenence, plus selling costs, plus processing costs, on and on and on.

In fact, they lose billions in foreclosures, and would much rather borrowers just pay the mortgage payment every month. (they should have thought about that years ago)

the list goes on, but I think my last post covers most of what I see as the problem, aside from this idiot pretending to know something so he can get re-elected.

according to the Ocala Business Journal

“U.S. Rep. Alan Grayson has announced a big haul in campaign contributions for the month of August…Grayson’s campaign claimed to have received more than $500,000 in donations during August, which pushed the freshman lawmaker’s total contributions beyond the $4 million mark”

I’m sure that receiving over $4 MILLION IN BRIBES (I always replace “campaign contribution” with “bribe”, it helps one see the situation more clearly), almost certainly from large corporate business interests and lobbyists keeps him very concerned about what the average homeowner needs and wants out of Washington.

Wake up people.

It’s slight of hand.  Hey look over here at the talking head saying how they know how you’ve been wronged; all the while the puppeteer is removing every last dime from your pockets.

Don’t be fooled.  He knows exactly as much about the mortgage servicing process as he does about brain surgery.  His research into this was likely a 30 minute primer from an intern who interviewed 10 people that were unhappy about how they got screwed.

Again; let me make myself absolutely clear; Wall Street banks screwed this country completely in this mortgage debacle, and they deserve to pay for that, but this clown is taking energy away from what should be the real focus because of his crying wolf.

Wait until the Student Loan “bubble” crashes, or the credit card “bubble” catches up with us.

No one seems to be looking at the big, systemic problems of letting the bankers control the people that make the rules.  Big shock the rules favor big banks and corporations.

[/quote]Justin: Why don’t you just tell me that you are “Doing God’s work.”

Take your honest misstakes, take your 2 million mortgages, bundle it up into a traunch, rate it Tripple Doing God’s work. Filing papers like this.

 

 

who is tywanna thomas?

IS FRAUD! Hiring companies who are factories to provide falsified documents to be used in court IS FRAUD. IT IS CRIMINAL.

Perhaps you should work in the Public Relations side of your industry. I refuse to buy this BS, and it makes me irate that I’ll be paying for this IN ADDITION to the10.4 trillion I’m on the hook for. 

 

  • Sat, Oct 02, 2010 - 05:02am

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    Re: Must Watch Video, MASSIVE Mortgage Fraud in Foreclosure

[quote=Davos]

Justin: Why don’t you just tell me that you are “Doing God’s work.”

Take your honest misstakes, take your 2 million mortgages, bundle it up into a traunch, rate it Tripple Doing God’s work. Filing papers like this.

IS FRAUD! Hiring companies who are factories to provide falsified documents to be used in court IS FRAUD. IT IS CRIMINAL.

Perhaps you should work in the Public Relations side of your industry. I refuse to buy this BS, and it makes me irate that I’ll be paying for this IN ADDITION to the10.4 trillion I’m on the hook for. 

[/quote]

Seriously?!?!?  You’re so mad about an idiot on the talking box that you can’t read and understand what I wrote?

When did I say these mistakes were “honest”?

What part of [quote=JustinChase]I certainly hope no one thinks I’m trying to apologize for the negligent behavior at the institutional level; it’s completely unacceptable.[/quote] are you not able to comprehend?

The documents were likely not “falsified”, they were rushed thru the system so the person signing them could go home as early as possible.  It *might* be criminal, since they seem to have not done as they attested (personally reviewed the facts of the case), but each one of these cases will cost the bank tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees, and in the end they will have to rescind/reverse the foreclosure, and then simply re-file it the next day.  the end result will the the same, the delinquent borrower will still lose their house, but the costs to the servicers will be HUGE, and the public backlash will be very unwelcome as well.  I think both of these things are justified (the expense to the banks and the public outcry), but the bank would MUCH rather just do it correctly and avoid both.  They simply are moving too fast to do every single one correctly.

The thing you should be outraged about is that management at these banks are largely incompetent, many of whom were just promoted because they were good sales people, and they have made so much money that they have bought the government that is supposed to be representing you and I and our neighbors with their bribes (called campaign contributions by the mainstream media)

Stop worrying about 10 isolated cases of “fraud” and look at the big picture.  They have made us all slaves to their greed, via “easy credit” resulting in record personal debt, and you’re worrying about a few isolated incidents of really poor process.

They did not hire foreclosure factories to falsify documents.  They are too busy to process all that paperwork internally, which is required to legally, correctly foreclose on the unfathomable number of delinquent borrowers, so they outsourced the workload to companies that “specialize” in this work.  Much the same way Apple doesn’t actually make the iWhatever’s they sell, but outsources the production to China.

Those companies clearly don’t do everything correctly.  I would guess many companies take shortcuts and make mistakes in the face of overwhelming growth, especially when combined with obscene amounts of money.

Yes, that one guy that had his house foreclosed on that didn’t have a mortgage is unexcusable, and was clearly wrong.  Do you REALLY think that the bank thought they could just forelcose on a house that had no mortgage and get away with it?  They certainly didn’t.  They made a HUGE mistake, caused by the overwhelming amount of paper they are processing.  If I had to guess, one computer database updated another, someone fat-fingered some data entry along the way, and they just processed the wrong asset thru foreclosure.

In the end, the bank will/has correct(ed) the Deed, and likely have given that person a large “settlement” for his troubles.  They know that if they try doing that kind of thing, they will get caught and punished, and they have much bigger things to worry about.  there is ZERO chance they foreclose on a house with no mortgage and the owner just let’s it happen without saying a thing.  Maybe 1 out of 10,000 people might let that slide, but those are really bad odds to attempt that sort of thing on purpose.

The news you’ve heard is that the person signing documents did not personally verify the facts of the case, but signed an affadavit that they did.  They signed this because someone that works for them set the paperwork on their desk and told them that the stack of papers needed their signature, and the person signing assumed the facts to be correct, because they hired someone else to verify those facts for them.  In 99% + of the cases, the facts are correct, and the foreclosure paperwork is correct, based on the fact that the borrower had not made the required payments.  They are not trying to wholesale “steal” peoples homes, as you’ve clearly been led to believe.

I would guess that in the 2 examples of signature inconsistencies from the video, one of which you pasted, the person signing was actually authorized to sign the form, but the person that put the paperwork on their desk used the wrong name stamp.  In otherwords, stupid laziness.  I would bet you dollars to donuts that in every example provided, the facts of the foreclosure were correct, and the person being foreclosed upon was delinquent, and the foreclosure was otherwise legal.  There are MANY authorized possible signers of these documents in large organizations, and they all have their name stamps to save time.  Usually their subordinates prepare and stamp the paperwork and put a sticky note next to where they need to sign, and they sign as fast as they can to get thru the pile and move onto some other task they have to do.  Perhaps Tywanna Thomas was out sick after the paperwork was prepared for her, and someone else just signed.  I don’t know about these specific examples, I’m guessing at what is likely to have happened.

Maybe I’m totally wrong and some big servicer really thinks they can fraudulently foreclose and the wronged parties will just let someone take their house away; by the millions and no one will notice or complain.  But logic and familiarity tell me it’s unintentional, as it will CLEARLY not go unnoticed.

But again, you’re missing the big picture.  there will be over 1 MILLION homes foreclosed on this year, and next year looks to be worse yet.  a few examples of errors are not surprising.  I’m not saying they are acceptable.  I’m not saying it should not be dealt with.  They need to be held accountable for their mistakes.

What I am saying is that these large corporations hold HUGE amounts of power and sway in Washington, and when they make these kinds of untenable, unsustainable loans, which led to a huge housing “crisis”, they are rewarded with the bailout funds you complain about having to pay for.  I have to pay for that also.  That’s what I’m upset about and what you should be upset about; not this silly non-story of foreclosure “fraud.”

Finally, I WANT TO BE CLEAR, I am not trying to explain how they are blameless, they are NOT blameless.  They caused this HUGE problem over the better part of a dozen years of increasingly lax lending standards, fueled by obscene amounts of profits and greed.  And once again, no one was or is planning for the fallout of these practices, they are just trying to push as much paper thru the system as possible, in order to make as much money as possible as quickly as possible and they are making mistakes.

I’m just trying to explain to you how it happens/happened so you can get past the stupid clerical and procedural errors and see the systemic problems that caused all of this.

don’t be fooled by the scary talk in the video; the real problem is MUCH WORSE than you think.

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