Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!
Because really, I want to know what drives such a large portion of our population to lie down, roll over and act as an effing door mat for some criminal with [email protected] on the bottom of their shoes.
An absolute ignorance of how the monetary system actually functions combined with the love of money.
Yes, it would have. Because of the strong protections provided to homeowners in most states, the law requires that the affiant in a foreclosure attest to personal knowledge that the debtor was served with proper notice. Already, because of ‘robosigning’ by foreclosure mills (Florida being the most egregious case), this requirement was not being met. HR 3808 would have expanded this practice nationwide, at the most utterly inappropriate moment. Even a political system with a tin ear to the voice of the people has woken up and taken notice.
Here, in detail, is the legal problem with ‘robosigning,’ and with rolling it out nationwide as HR 3808 sought to do:[/quote]
I understand completely what you wrote to explain the process and requirement of personal knowledge, and accept that this has not been happening I think it’s very good information, and hope others read and understand it.
However, once again, I’m going to ask for details and an actual explanation as to how this bill would either legalize and expand the practice of robosigning or would curtail homeowners rights to dispute or fight said foreclosures. Just saying it would make it harder to fight and easier to do, without an explanation is not helpful, and I think, just confuses the issues, and MUCH worse, focuses energy (and anger) on the wrong problems.
[quote=machinehead]’Robosigning’ is not a mere procedural matter, as some bankster apologists have asserted. It is a profound, systemic fraud, on the same level with the ratings fraud and insider-dealing fraud which created the 2007 mortgage debt crisis in the first place.[/quote]
Actually, it’s both. It is absolutely a procedural matter. the rate of foreclosures grew so fast that the banks and servicers couldn’t keep up. They just tried to process as much paperwork as they needed to, as fast as they could. This resulted in people signing the foreclosure documents presented to them by their subordinates (who were supposed to verify the facts of the case) in huge numbers, but not reviewing them personally, which is technically fraud. it was not done in an effort to commit outright fraud (insofaras the facts of the cases were correct in MOST cases), it was done out of laziness and expediency. Still very wrong, and likely (and rightly) will (hopefully) result in severe penalties against them for such sloppiness.
[quote=machinehead]The same sloppy, slapdash procedures which manufactured these toxic securities on the front end is now echoed on the back end, as the malefactors and fraudsters seek to mop up the monumental mess they made on the cheap.[/quote]
Just to be clear, foreclosures cost the banks LOTS of money, WAY, WAY more than you imagine, they are not trying to foreclose as fast as they can because it’s profitable, there are simply so many people that cannot pay the predatory loans they received (let’s not forget, these people ALL signed paperwork agreeing to pay for these mortgages, so they need to share in some of the blame in all this), that the banks are forced to foreclose in record numbers, and are doing it very sloppily.
[quote=machinehead]Foreclosure fraud has gone viral as a political issue, four weeks before the election. It’s a stick of dynamite with a lit fuse. HR 3808 was the first and only bill that Obama has vetoed in nearly two years in office, just two weeks after it was whooped through the Senate with zero opposition. Something happened between then and now. It is not minor. The president was told that foreclosure fraud is an issue so serious, so polarizing, that it could destroy the social contract. This issue has got legs. Ignore or minimize it at your peril.[/quote]
It has certainly received a lot of attention, and that’s a good thing. I think Obama “vetoed” this because it was passed so quickly, and without any review or discussion, and he could be seen to have allowed it to happen. I will bet you he doesn’t actually understand the foreclosure mess, rebosigning, the problems that have caused all this, nor what affect this bill would have on the whole situation; but he knew that if this bill was seen to be favoring the banks and allowing them to take peoples homes he’d be crucified. the fact that he did veto is is being seen by most everyone as proof that it would have, but have yet to see anything to justify that view.
I’ll say it again, i still have not found the full text of the bill, but every summary I have seen indicates that it was written years ago as a way to facilitate the acceptance of notarized documents that were notarized in states with less stringent requirements. It does not, from what I have seen, allow documents to be accepted without being notarized, nor does it allow robosigning to become acceptable.
Okay, after some more searching, I found what seems to be the full wording of the bill, and it still does not seem to legalize anything as is being complained about in this thread (well, not what the thread was started to complain about anyway).
Here it is
“Each Federal court shall recognize any lawful notarization made by a notary public licensed or commissioned under the laws of a State other than the State where the Federal court is located if–
(1) such notarization occurs in or affects interstate commerce; and
(2)(A) a seal of office, as symbol of the notary public’s authority, is used in the notarization; or
(B) in the case of an electronic record, the seal information is securely attached to, or logically associated with, the electronic record so as to render the record tamper-resistant.”
its not as if this allows documents to be filed without being notarized, or allows “illegal” notarizations to become “legal”, as far as i can see.
But first, let’s take a stroll down memory lane…
…The focus by Washington on the very real mortgage foreclosure mishaps committed by many lenders is the functional equivalent of putting Al Capone away for tax evasion. The real, continuing act of racketeering and criminality being committed by the Big Five banks is the cartel behavior which prevents home refinancing for performing borrowers and also renders Fed monetary policy largely ineffective. Instead of suing American Express (AXP), the Department of Justice should be suing the Big Five for anti-trust violations, price fixing and criminal RICO.
very well said, and exactly what I’m trying to point out also. the problems being focused on are not the big problems, and are taking focus and energy from fixing the root of the problem, which was the predatory lending practices, and moreso the bundling of these crappy loans as securities, and the total lack of oversight for a dozen years, which led to millions of people now in homes they cannot or will not continue to afford.
LOL, Davos, I love your directness. It’s refreshing in this modern world rife with deception and lies where the bulk of the population has been brainwashed into passivity, compromise, and acceptance of that which should never be accepted.
If I had to guess, I’d say a 30 something involved in the real estate industry who has something to gain from HR3808.
Well, you’d be mostly wrong. I have over 20 years experience in mortgage originating, wholesale lending, servicing, construction accounting, real estate sales and financial planning. As for having something to gain from HR3808; I’d very much love to know how you think I (or anyone) would gain from this legislation.
As far as i can tell, this bill was originally written in 2005 as follows
“But Tim Reinger, director of the digital services group at FutureLaw, a law firm based in Richmond, Va., said the bill would only allow for a recognition of a notary signature from another state. It would not validate any unlawful signatures, and it still requires a notary to personally witness a signature.
Reigner testified before Congress in 2006 during a hearing on the bill.
“It was written to make the recognition process easier, simpler and cheaper,” Reigner said.
Aderholt first proposed the legislation in 2005 when a court stenographer in his district told him about a problem with getting courts in other states to accept depositions notarized in Alabama.
“In addition, some small businesses in Alabama supported the concept of improving interstate commerce through this bill. After introduction of the bill, the National Notary Association, the court reporters, and the trial lawyers (American Trial Lawyers Association) all showed support for the bill,” Jordan told HousingWire.”
Finally, as for what the consequences of the robosigning story now being told and complained about, I saw someone saying that Texas has halted foreclosures. this is not exactly correct either. the Texas Attorney General has send a demand letter to 30 servicers doing business in Texas, demanding they stop foreclosures, stop evictions of previously foreclosed upon properties, and stop the sale of foreclosed houses. however, this is not a law, and servicers are not required to comply, the threat of legal actions may cause them to comply, but it may not.
if this, and other actions stop the foreclosures, it will be temporary, and the people that don’t pay will end up having their houses foreclosed on at some point in the future.
what this will do, however, is delay the market from finding the bottom of home values and delay any eventual recovery.
It will also result (HOPEFULLY) in fewer mistakes being made, like the examples given in this and other threads, of people suffering incorrect foreclosure processes, but it will delay home values rising until the glut of foreclosures finally get sold.
the anger should be directed at the fact that bribery (campaign contributions) of our politicians has not only been made legal, but now the anonymous bribery has been made legal, and millions of dollars are being paid to buy influence with the people who vote on the laws the lobbyists now write.
Until this changes, we will continue to be slaves to this system.
complaining about my attempts to explain this and enlighten people are not useful, and just waste energy.