Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

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  • Sun, Oct 10, 2010 - 12:17am

    #41
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

[quote=JustinChase]

this law will not legalize foreclosure fraud, it will not make it any easier for banks to “steal” peoples houses, it will not help anyone steal value from your home, nor will it indebt you, or your children.

[/quote]

Yes, it would have. Because of the strong protections provided to homeowners in most states, the law requires that the affiant in a foreclosure attest to personal knowledge  that the debtor was served with proper notice. Already, because of ‘robosigning’ by foreclosure mills (Florida being the most egregious case), this requirement was not being met. HR 3808 would have expanded this practice nationwide, at the most utterly inappropriate moment. Even a political system with a tin ear to the voice of the people has woken up and taken notice.

Here, in detail, is the legal problem with ‘robosigning,’ and with rolling it out nationwide as HR 3808 sought to do:

An affidavit is a legal document which can substitute for live witness testimony in court. All testimony in court is governed by the rules of evidence or by statute. All testimony requires that the witness swears to tell the truth, is competent and has personal knowledge of the facts they are testifying about. An affidavit is no different, in most if not all jurisdictions; the affiant swears to tell the truth by being placed under oath by the notary, the affiant states in the affidavit that they were sworn, are competent and that they have personal knowledge of the facts in the affidavit. The notary attests to the oath of the affiant and that the affiant is who he claims to be.

If a witness lies in court or in an affidavit then they could be charged with perjury. Perjury is lying to the court.

The affidavit issue is being portrayed in the MSM at a paperwork problem. Lying to the court is not a paperwork problem. Attorneys are prohibited from making a material misrepresentation to the court of fact or law. Further, attorneys in most jurisdictions have an affirmative duty to report known perjury by their clients to the court.

The problem with the affidavits is perjury on behalf of the affiants and possibly the notaries depending on the notaries’ knowledge that the affiants had not reviewed the files, the promissory notes, the mortgages, or the records of default.

Further, you can reasonably argue that the entities pursuing foreclosure (banks or servicers) have perpetrated a fraud on the court by submitting perjured affidavits. If the attorneys representing the entities have knowledge of the fraud or are preparing questionable documents then they may also be involved and subject to penalties.

At the heart of any trial or hearing is the determination of the truth of the matter. It is the very purpose of the rules of evidence and what law and fact is presented to the court. If the affiants lied, as it appears, then the truth of whether they owned the note and held the mortgage and the borrower was in default is at issue. Courts, Attorneys General, and bar associations need to seriously consider actions that will assure compliance with the rule of law.

This country cannot stand as a democracy if there is one set of law for the banks, corps, elites and another set of law for the rest of us. Perjury and fraud on the court is very serious matter. It is not a mere paperwork problem.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/10/debunking-banks-procedural-problems-defense-on-the-foreclosure-crisis.html#comments

‘Robosigning’ is not a mere procedural matter, as some bankster apologists have asserted. It is a profound, systemic fraud, on the same level with the ratings fraud and insider-dealing fraud which created the 2007 mortgage debt crisis in the first place.

The same sloppy, slapdash procedures which manufactured these toxic securities on the front end is now echoed on the back end, as the malefactors and fraudsters seek to mop up the monumental mess they made on the cheap.

Foreclosure fraud has gone viral as a political issue, four weeks before the election. It’s a stick of dynamite with a lit fuse. HR 3808 was the first and only bill that Obama has vetoed in nearly two years in office, just two weeks after it was whooped through the Senate with zero opposition. Something happened between then and now. It is not minor. The president was told that foreclosure fraud is an issue so serious, so polarizing, that it could destroy the social contract. This issue has got legs. Ignore or minimize it at your peril.

 

 

  • Sun, Oct 10, 2010 - 12:21am

    #42
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

Link:

But first, let’s take a stroll down memory lane.

 

One of the topics we discussed at length with Todd in the mid-1980s was the way in which Wall Street firms underwriting of residential mortgage backed securities or “RMBS” failed to perfect the collateral lien of the securities against the home or other real estate. This was a serious legal problem, especially if you believe in property rights and due process of law. Yet because the value of the real estate that served as collateral was rising pretty much continuously during the past several decades (Hello — What’s wrong with this picture?), the issue of imperfect collateral liens in ABS received little attention from the Fed or other regulators. See our comment: “No True Sale: Interview with Joseph Mason’, March 3, 2008 

Now let’s walk through the process of creating an RMBS to illustrate the problem facing many home owners, lenders and investors. We’ll use the actual example of IRA cofounder Christopher Whalen. Back in 1998, Chris and his wife bought a home in Westchester County NY. The primary mortgage was originated by and independent broker and placred with Roslyn Savings Bank, which retained the paper for its own portfolio. In 2001, Chris refinanced with the Bank of New York Mellon (BK) (Q2 2010 Sress Rating: “A”), which immediately sold the “Alt-A” loan to the firm formerly known as Lehman Brothers. But that was only the start of this mortgage’s journey.

The loan was then resold by Lehman Brothers to a special purpose vehicle (SPV) and then sold again to a Delaware trust created to securitize the mortgage into an ABS. Lehman controlled the trust, but the vehicle was administered as though it were in fact separate. Servicing was provided by Aurora Loan Servicing, a wholly owned subsidiary of Lehman, which is now being liquidated. When the time came to sell bonds to investors, the trustee for the Delaware vehicle issuing the securities repeated the process performed thousands of times before and merely took the documentation describing the mortgages into a file folder and went on to the next deal.

Here’s the problem. If you go down to the Courthouse in White Plains, New York, and pull up the title record for the property purchased a decade ago by the Whalens, the only indication of any encumbrance over the collateral that is supposed to back up the securitization sold to investors by Lehman Brothers is the original assignment to Roslyn Savings and later to the Bank of New York. There is no change in recordation of the collateral lien on the property to Lehman Brothers much less the SPV or the Delaware trust that acted as the securitization vehicle in the ABS.

In the event of a default, it could be argued that Lehman Brothers never owned the loan and thus never had the power to assign ownership to the SPV or the Delaware trust. Indeed, in plain legal terms, Bank of New York (and now JPMorgan, the successor to the Bank of New York retail business), is the only party with legal standing to enforce the lien on the property. But as far as Bank of New York is concerned, the loan was sold to Lehman Brothers more than a decade ago.

Now you are probably wondering why the good people at Lehman Brothers never bothered to send a paralegal to the New York State Courthouse in White Plains to record a change in the collateral lien — at least regarding the sale to Lehman Brothers. The cost of perfecting the lien on the hundreds or even thousands of loans in a typical ABS costs money, but in aggregate would have added less than half a point to the cost of the deal. But the investment bankers at Lehman Brothers took that half point as profit instead of doing their jobs. No doubt claims for fraud, RICO and other misdemeanors are possible against Lehman and other RMBS underwriters, as with the civil RICO lawsuit against Citigroup (C) (Q2 2010 Stress Rating “C”) and Ally Financial (Q2 2010 Stress Rating “A+”).

 

You can argue that the banks were greedy and stupid for failing to perform their legally required duties as securities dealers and fiduciaries. You can also argue rightly that many banks are doing stupid things in foreclosures as they are being overwhelmed by mortgage defaults. But these very real concerns miss the larger issue. The bigger point that members of the media and the other happy campers who are following the foreclosure mess need to understand is that a poorly managed documentation trail does not change the fact that the loans are bad.  Focusing on the foreclosure mess at the expense of paying attention to the larger, secular threat from the deflation of the mortgage sector could be a fatal choice for American consumers, banks and the nation as a whole. 

House Speaker Nancy “Red” Pelosi (D-CA) and all of the other politicians clamouring for inquiries of bad home foreclosures are simply playing to their ill-informed audience. Neither Pelosi, most members of Congress nor the vast majority of Americans understand that the real crime by the Big Five banks is not the failure to perfect the loan documents on a mortgage a decade ago, but the active steps being taken today to prevent millions of American households from exercising their contractual right to refinance their mortgages when interest rates fall.

The focus by Washington on the very real mortgage foreclosure mishaps committed by many lenders is the functional equivalent of putting Al Capone away for tax evasion. The real, continuing act of racketeering and criminality being committed by the Big Five banks is the cartel behavior which prevents home refinancing for performing borrowers and also renders Fed monetary policy largely ineffective. Instead of suing American Express (AXP), the Department of Justice should be suing the Big Five for anti-trust violations, price fixing and criminal RICO. Until the blockade erected by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to prevent refinancing of performing mortgages is removed, Fed monetary policy will be stymied and no amount of QE will be effective in stabilizing much less re-inflating the U.S. economy.

  • Sun, Oct 10, 2010 - 12:33am

    #43
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

[quote=machinehead]The same sloppy, slapdash procedures which manufactured these toxic securities on the front end is now echoed on the back end, as the malefactors and fraudsters seek to mop up the monumental mess they made on the cheap.[/quote]

Tavakoli: Biggest Fraud in the History of the Capital Markets

Ezra Klein: What’s happening here? Why are we suddenly faced with a crisis that wasn’t apparent two weeks ago?

Janet Tavakoli: This is the biggest fraud in the history of the capital markets. And it’s not something that happened last week. It happened when these loans were originated, in some cases years ago. Loans have representations and warranties that have to be met. In the past, you had a certain period of time, 60 to 90 days, where you sort through these loans and, if they’re bad, you kick them back. If the documentation wasn’t correct, you’d kick it back. If you found the incomes of the buyers had been overstated, or the houses had been appraised at twice their worth, you’d kick it back. But that didn’t happen here. And it turned out there were loan files that were missing required documentation. Part of putting the deal together is that the securitization professional, and in this case that’s banks like Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan, has to watch for this stuff. It’s called perfecting the security interest, and it’s not optional. 

EK: And how much danger are the banks themselves in?

JT: When we had the financial crisis, the first thing the banks did was run to Congress and ask for accounting relief. 

And Justin: In addition to weak merits and your argument being nothing but 99% questions and help me understands salted with you are wrongs – you never answered my question – are you a banker a wall streeter or a notary. Why are you so in favor of HR 3808???? 

 

  • Sun, Oct 10, 2010 - 01:27am

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[quote=Davos]

And Justin: In addition to weak merits and your argument being nothing but 99% questions and help me understands salted with you are wrongs – you never answered my question – are you a banker a wall streeter or a notary. Why are you so in favor of HR 3808???? 

[/quote]

LOL, Davos, I love your directness.  It’s refreshing in this modern world rife with deception and lies where the bulk of the population has been brainwashed into passivity, compromise, and acceptance of that which should never be accepted.

If I had to guess, I’d say a 30 something involved in the real estate industry who has something to gain from HR3808.

  • Sun, Oct 10, 2010 - 01:29am

    #45
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Let me lay this out on an anecdotal level,  a house level shall we say.  One of our neighbors bought his house in 2005.  Fair and square ordinary purchase no surprises.  During the next five years he got new notices of his loan having changed hands once  a year and twice in 2009.  Each time he got this notice there was a letter saying nothing had changed about the terms of his loan but that he would be getting a new payment book.  He usually did get the book in a timely manner and complied as soon as he was notified of the new loan servicer.

Last week he got a certified letter telling him he was in foreclosure.  WTF?!  He had made every payment on time and had routinely made one extra payment per year to principle.  Where had the money gone?  Sadly, it appears that no one is really sure about this at this point.  The last two “changes” had not caught up with one another and the loan servicer from one purchase ago was still waiting on payments to which it was no longer entitled.  At least that is what he thinks at this point.  It matters not to him,  he is several grand into legal fees, not to mention severely damaged credit as well as having to explain to his employer what was going on with his credit and time.  

Not one of the service providers seem to be able to produce the appropriate documentation to prove that any of them were entitled to his money in the first place…….   The last time he signed a document was in 2005 at closing.  He did the right thing and followed the rules.  They played fast and loose and now he is getting the shaft.

  • Sun, Oct 10, 2010 - 02:58am

    #46
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Gee: Sinclair is on the same page also.

The banksters tried to sneak through a bill that would make their criminal actions legal.

I’m certain you can email him at jsmineset AT gmail.com with “Help me understand” in the subject line.

 

  • Sun, Oct 10, 2010 - 04:06am

    #47
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1:08 minute point and on. First CW points out we are 25% into this crisis.

Think what 2011 will be like. 2008 will be nothing.

Second, his own house wasn’t recorded at the courthouse when his loan changed hands from BNYM to Lehman. Two more reason why they need:

‘8 notaries notarizing 18,000 documents a month, and the notary’s filling in information in the document handing it to the signer who is actually named as an officer of multiple banks and signing multiple documents to create a chain of tilte……’

Video on page

  • Sun, Oct 10, 2010 - 06:57am

    #48
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

Davos

I like you, respect you, and enjoy reading your posts.  You’ve been an important contributor here since the early days.  But personal attacks on other posters are out of line and you know it.  Your post 31 clearly violated forum rules.  https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/forum-guidelines-and-rules/9528

Your prior posts made assertions that you did not adequately explain and JustinChase was asking legitimate questions.  Here are specific examples of the hostile tone and personal attacks directed at another member that I object to in your post.

[quote=Davos, post 31]

Never use and never be used by the “Help me understand” turd.

I have an even bigger problem with people like yourself who find no problem with this bill.

YOU JUSTIN are advocating that we accept fraud, that we promote fraud in this arena.

Why don’t YOU help me understand why you do this?

Are you an attorney?

Do you work for a bank?

Let me be super hypocritical (or sarcastic) “Help me understand”.

Because really, I want to know what drives such a large portion of our population to lie down, roll over and act as an effing door mat for some criminal with [email protected] on the bottom of their shoes.

[/quote]

Regarding the phrase, “Help me understand.”, the head shrinker could have also used, “I love you.”  It is often abused to gain personal advantage, but has a legitimate use that is more important.

I did not flag you because I respect you enough to tell you directly.  I hope that will remain the case.

I think that anger is a legitimate response to abuse, and I think we’d be better off if more people were genuinely angry and doing something about it.  The key is to attack the people who are abusing us, not a fellow forum member with questions.  Justin’s response was also uncivil, but you asked for it and he was trying to communicate in a manner you would understand.  We need vigorous debate here, but it should be based on evidence and logic, and always civil.  Personal attacks just makes us look like politicians.

Really Davos, pick your targets.  I don’t want to see you go the way of Eric T.  I’d miss you too.

With regards.

Travlin  

  • Sun, Oct 10, 2010 - 01:41pm

    #49
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

[quote=Travlin]

Davos

I like you, respect you, and enjoy reading your posts.  You’ve been an important contributor here since the early days.  But personal attacks on other posters are out of line and you know it.  Your post 31 clearly violated forum rules.  https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/forum-guidelines-and-rules/9528

Your prior posts made assertions that you did not adequately explain and JustinChase was asking legitimate questions.  Here are specific examples of the hostile tone and personal attacks directed at another member that I object to in your post.

[quote=Davos, post 31]

Never use and never be used by the “Help me understand” turd.

I have an even bigger problem with people like yourself who find no problem with this bill.

YOU JUSTIN are advocating that we accept fraud, that we promote fraud in this arena.

Why don’t YOU help me understand why you do this?

Are you an attorney?

Do you work for a bank?

Let me be super hypocritical (or sarcastic) “Help me understand”.

Because really, I want to know what drives such a large portion of our population to lie down, roll over and act as an effing door mat for some criminal with [email protected] on the bottom of their shoes.

[/quote]

Regarding the phrase, “Help me understand.”, the head shrinker could have also used, “I love you.”  It is often abused to gain personal advantage, but has a legitimate use that is more important.

I did not flag you because I respect you enough to tell you directly.  I hope that will remain the case.

I think that anger is a legitimate response to abuse, and I think we’d be better off if more people were genuinely angry and doing something about it.  The key is to attack the people who are abusing us, not a fellow forum member with questions.  Justin’s response was also uncivil, but you asked for it and he was trying to communicate in a manner you would understand.  We need vigorous debate here, but it should be based on evidence and logic, and always civil.  Personal attacks just makes us look like politicians.

Really Davos, pick your targets.  I don’t want to see you go the way of Eric T.  I’d miss you too.

With regards.

Travlin  

[/quote]Flag it – let a moderator decide. I’m not going to be talked to like I’m some whack job on a couch. If that post was intended to be an attack there would have been NO doubt because I would have used the M word and I didn’t. 

  • Sun, Oct 10, 2010 - 04:10pm

    #50
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

[quote=land2341]

Last week he got a certified letter telling him he was in foreclosure.  WTF?!  He had made every payment on time and had routinely made one extra payment per year to principle.  … he is several grand into legal fees, not to mention severely damaged credit as well as having to explain to his employer what was going on with his credit and time.  

[/quote]

At least he’s got the means to fight back — many people don’t. 

If this happened to me, I’d ask my attorney about the possibility of suing not only for reimbursement of legal expenses, but also for punitive damages.

Another route which I would explore is publicity — writing directly to the president of the institution which is foreclosing (with a copy to the state attorney general); picketing their headquarters; getting a splashy news story publicizing the outrage, etc.

He should make as much noise and be as highly visible as possible. 

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