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Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

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  • Sat, Oct 09, 2010 - 02:41pm

    #31
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

[/quote]Clearly I need to ask you: Did you watch the video(s) I posted? Did you catch the x number of notaries signing off on y number of documents? & Yes, this bill, from what I’ve read, would allow them to change that.[/quote]

 

Yes, I did watch the video, did you?  it says that 8 notaries notarized thousands of documents.  firstly, over the course of the last few years, that’s not at all surprising, but more importantly, so what??

This bill simply requires states with stringent notary requirements to accept notarized documents from states with less stringent requirements.  I does not allow them to accept forged documents, or un-notarized documents, as far as I can see.

exactly how does that allow servicers and banks to foreclose by sending postcards after the fact?? it isn’t changing the legal requirements to foreclose.

I get that you’re really mad that the banks made stupid loans to people and are now foreclosing as fast as they can by “robosigning”, but there’s nothing in this bill that I can see that allows them to skirt due process and notification processes.  the guy in the video claims that the banks made loans that were not “conforming” because so many are now going into foreclosure.  I’m not really sure what he thinks they should be “confirming” to, but if you remember, the vast majority of these “toxic assets” were sub-prime loans, which by their very definition, are non-conforming.  if the people buying the securitized pools didn’t take the time to understand the loans that made up the investments, isn’t that their fault?  If I bought a “rusty nail baby chew toy” fund, without understanding what the product was, and a made a great return for years while everyone else was buying the same fund, but suddenly it was discovered that rusty nail chew toys were causing children to get sick and the fund tanked, should I get a refund on my purchase?  or should I have to suffer the consequences of making a purchase of a bad product that I didn’t fully understand?

yes, the bill was passed too quickly, and somewhat secretly, which concerns me, but going from that to allowing banks to foreclose willy nilly just doesn’t fly with me.

if you care to explain to me how this bill give the banks some new powers to “steal” peoples homes, or to commit, or legalize “foreclosure fraud”, I’d very much like to hear it.

if you want me to watch more people on the stupid box talking about all the other problems with the past policies and procedures (which, btw, have NOTHING to do with this new bill or this thread), I’d rather not.  I actually do understand what happend with the lending done over the last 10 years, how it happened and what is currently happening with the robosigners.  the current news is all derived from people not personally verifying the contents of the paperwork they were signing.  That is wrong, but it does not change the fact that 95% or more of the foreclosures filed were filed based on correct information.

I’m not so sure you understand these things yet, as you seem to be somewhat blinded by your anger.

none of this is to say the public should not be upset about the past (and current) practices of the lenders; but this bill is a non-starter for me; unless someone can explain how it does as I question above.  it only seems to allow acceptance of notarizations from other states.

  • Sat, Oct 09, 2010 - 05:04pm

    #32
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

Amazing. A guiding principle of mine has been: Never use and never be used by the “Help me understand” turd.

When I sold my last house it was to a head shrink. She commented that I was very blunt and told me I could defuse (read: manipulate) the other side by asking questions and stressed to always use the mother of all “defusers”. She asked me, in a whisper, do you know what that is?

She whispered, “It is: Help me understand.”

She stressed that it was a superb way to argue without letting the other person in the debate even know that this is an argument or a debate. A superior way to win she stressed.

You know what the problem is with the “Help me understand” bit is Justin?

It is fake, insincere, falsely rated and misleading.

It is subprime BS.

Justin, let me spell this out for you: I have a problem with this bill. I have an even bigger problem with people like yourself who find no problem with this bill. I have a problem with the head shrinks who “politically-correctize” our world. Anger has a place in this world. If everyone was PO’d about the banks and how they blew up the economy with fraudulent loans, how they enticed people to borrow trillions of dollars against their falsely rising equity and with how they sold those loans to municipalities and pension funds (and maybe even your own mutual funds) then this wrong would have been righted – no matter what Paulson slipped in as a no-sue clause.

Worse, after blowing up the economy what happened?

Gee, we are on the hook for 10.4 trillion in obligations that ensure these morons who should be out of business and behind bars make it. Make it with billions of dollars in bonuses. Not only that, they get the houses. They made loans – non conforming loans, (loans that lack credit, have false appraisals etc.) that were set to self destruct.

They even bet against these loans.

Let me help YOU understand this: – THIS IS CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

Let me also help you understand that you work from January 1 until August 15th every year and 100% of that money goes to (government) debt service. That leaves you, me and every other consumer 4.5 months to support the economy. The very economy that supports all of us. That formula right there is a mathematical impossibility. 

I have a serious problem when our elected officials are BRIBED to pass laws like TARP and HR3808.

  • ‘8 notaries notarizing 18,000 documents a month, and the notary’s filling in information in the document handing it to the signer who is actually named as an officer of multiple banks and signing multiple documents to create a chain of tilte……’

Let me help you understand: THAT IS CRIMINAL THAT IS FRAUD.

And why am I upset? GEE YAH DON’T THINK IT IS BECAUSE THEY AREN’T GOING AFTER THEM.

YAH DON’T THINK IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE CHANGING THE LAW TO ALLOW THEM TO DO THIS WITHOUT A NOTARY? This isn’t some electronic technology law – this is a we need to create a chain of title without it being a crime law.

Let me spell this out for you: This law promotes fraud. For 70% of American’s their biggest investment is their home. YOU JUSTIN are advocating that we accept fraud, that we promote fraud in this arena. In simple words: Allowing fraud like this, in this arena – well you might just as well revalue your home as worthless. Just remove it from your balance sheet – but keep any loans on it or against it on the other side of the sheet.

Why don’t YOU help me understand why you do this?

Are you an attorney?

Do you work for a bank?

Let me be super hypocritical (or sarcastic) “Help me understand”.

Because really, I want to know what drives such a large portion of our population to lie down, roll over and act as an effing door mat for some criminal with [email protected] on the bottom of their shoes. 

Personally – I have a problem with someone stealing the value out of my home, indebting me, indebting my children.

I also have a major problem with being told this is capitalism. Capitalism is dead. It was buried in 2008.

[Moderator’s note: This post is a violation of the Forum Guidelines because of its deliberately aggressive tone and failure to respond to relevant questions asked of its poster.  It reads as a personal attack against another user, which is expressly prohibited. Corrective action with the poster has been undertaken.]

  • Sat, Oct 09, 2010 - 08:33pm

    #33
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

Legalizing interstate ‘robosigning’ when major documentation problems have surfaced, attorneys general are investigating, and Bank of America has halted foreclosures, is obviously a move in the wrong direction. Standards were already lax, and HR 3808 would have made them laxer.

But I’ll advance another reason. Real estate transactions are recorded at the county level, according to state laws. Foreclosures are conducted according to state laws. These processes are legislated by the states. The federal government has no right to butt in and override these state laws. 

The Tenth Amendment left to the states the powers which weren’t ceded to the federal government. The principle has been greatly abused, but so far, the federal government has left real estate alone, because the constitution gives it no authority over property other than in bankruptcy. HR 3808 was not only wrong and bad — it’s UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

  • Sat, Oct 09, 2010 - 09:02pm

    #34
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

Wake up and smell the coffee — the ‘robosigning’ revolt has gone viral. Texas has suspended foreclosures:

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott called for a halt on foreclosures Monday amid nationwide scrutiny over the way they are processed.

Notices to suspend foreclosures were sent to 27 loan servicers doing business in Texas, including Bank of America and JPMorgan Chase, the attorney general’s office said. It did not have the full list of companies available late Monday.

The office also called for a halt on the sales of properties previously foreclosed upon, which might affect auctions scheduled today, and on evictions of people living in such properties.

The office said it began investigating foreclosures last month after reports that an employee of Ally Financial, a large mortgage lender, acknowledged signing thousands of foreclosure documents without reviewing them as required.

Ally has since suspended foreclosures on certain properties in 23 other states, as have JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America. This is so they can investigate whether their employees rushed foreclosures, a practice called “robosigning.”

In the state’s letter to JPMorgan Chase, Paul Carmona, chief of the attorney general’s consumer protection and public health division, said robosigning practices can include signing documents without reading them, signing thousands of documents a month, signing documents without proper notarization and signing affidavits falsely claiming personal knowledge of facts.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/texas_ag_suspends_foreclosures_104323339.html

When there’s a massive problem like this one, the last thing you want to do is to loosen regulations on the abusers. H.R. 3808 would have done exactly that. The president, to his credit, stopped it — because he was told that angry middle-class mobs were likely to swarm the streets, torching cars and smashing shop windows with bricks if he didn’t. 

Foreclosure fraud has angered and radicalized the middle class like no issue in years. This is political dynamite.

My brother works in the Texas attorney general’s office. He is a tough-a$$ litigator, and I have a feeling he’s gonna be conkin’ some bankster skulls with a 36-inch Louisville slugger.

LaughingWHACK ‘EM AGAIN, BRO — HARDER! Laughing

 

  • Sat, Oct 09, 2010 - 09:18pm

    #35
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

It appears to me is that this doesn’t necessarily legitimize fraud outright, but effectively does so in a roundabout way by creating bigger obstacles for anyone who wishes to challenge a foreclosure.  It won’t necessarily stop one from challenging it, but I imagine it would make it more costly and time consuming.  If you go to your state’s attorney general’s office they might throw up their hands and say “you got to go to X state and challenge it there”, which very well may involve hiring a lawyer in the other state that handled and notarized the foreclosure (disclosure: this is just my assumption and I know little about such legal processes… if anyone knows for a fact how this may work I’m all ears!).  So perhaps the logic behind passing this law is that they greatly decrease the number of potential challenges and lessen the impact on the Too Big To Fail banks.  After all, how many people being foreclosed on will have the money to hire a lawyer? Yell 

Reminds me a little of the recent tax changes regarding foreign accounts/investments.  They are not capital controls per se, but creates the same overall effect by creating disincentives (in the form of paperwork and reporting requirements) for outside financial institutions to accept US account holders.  Seems that TPTB always like to come at us sideways, doesn’t it?  I wish I could chalk it all up to politicians’ ignorance or stupidity, but it’s a pattern repeated too often for me to give them that benefit of the doubt.  So I’m largely in agreement with Davos, even if it looks like he’s taking anger management lessons from the Sith Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader…. (just teasing Davos! Laughing)

– Nickbert

  • Sat, Oct 09, 2010 - 09:35pm

    #36
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

[quote=machinehead]

Wake up and smell the coffee — the ‘robosigning’ revolt has gone viral. Texas has suspended foreclosures:

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott called for a halt on foreclosures Monday amid nationwide scrutiny over the way they are processed.

Notices to suspend foreclosures were sent to 27 loan servicers doing business in Texas, including Bank of America and JPMorgan Chase, the attorney general’s office said. It did not have the full list of companies available late Monday.

The office also called for a halt on the sales of properties previously foreclosed upon, which might affect auctions scheduled today, and on evictions of people living in such properties.

The office said it began investigating foreclosures last month after reports that an employee of Ally Financial, a large mortgage lender, acknowledged signing thousands of foreclosure documents without reviewing them as required.

Ally has since suspended foreclosures on certain properties in 23 other states, as have JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America. This is so they can investigate whether their employees rushed foreclosures, a practice called “robosigning.”

In the state’s letter to JPMorgan Chase, Paul Carmona, chief of the attorney general’s consumer protection and public health division, said robosigning practices can include signing documents without reading them, signing thousands of documents a month, signing documents without proper notarization and signing affidavits falsely claiming personal knowledge of facts.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/texas_ag_suspends_foreclosures_104323339.html

When there’s a massive problem like this one, the last thing you want to do is to loosen regulations on the abusers. H.R. 3808 would have done exactly that. The president, to his credit, stopped it — because he was told that angry middle-class mobs were likely to swarm the streets, torching cars and smashing shop windows with bricks if he didn’t. 

Foreclosure fraud has angered and radicalized the middle class like no issue in years. This is political dynamite.

My brother works in the Texas attorney general’s office. He is a tough-a$$ litigator, and I have a feeling he’s gonna be conkin’ some bankster skulls with a 36-inch Louisville slugger.

LaughingWHACK ‘EM AGAIN, BRO — HARDER! Laughing

 

[/quote]Somehow I wasn’t surprised to hear this. Apples don’t fall far from trees. Nice to know some people still GET the Constitution. 

  • Sat, Oct 09, 2010 - 09:41pm

    #37
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    Is this the ‘Black Swan’ we’ve been waiting to see?

Nice find on the Texas development machinehead!  I think we’ll see more states following suit.

To me this potentially looks like the ‘Black Swan’ many of us have been speculating about.  If the federal politicians and authorities are getting hit on all sides by various states, with or without HR3808 this can easily balloon out of control and do irreversible damage to the real estate industry.  And the past few years have shown us how important that is to our economy.  Anyone here wish to take bets on how long it takes for this to put serious fear into the markets and interfere with the flow of credit?

I’m going to make a not-very-educated guess and say “near the end of this year”…. I think it might take a month or two more to really build steam.

(Then again I have to remind myself of the key point of Chris’ most recent report… “Things May Unravel Faster Than You Think” Surprised)

– Nickbert

  • Sat, Oct 09, 2010 - 09:42pm

    #38
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

LOL Nickbert – I never manage my rage when it comes to speaking my mind.

Ever. 

Anger was programmed into us and if we weren’t so Dr. Spocked into being some @ssinine PC (politically correct) world the bankers would have feared for their lives and done a BK chapter 7 instead of bribing politicians and convincing morons (Bernanke et al) that this was necessary.

This world is becoming a [email protected] place, especially for our kids because of things like PC and “Help me understand,” both of which translate to assume the position in my book. 

  • Sat, Oct 09, 2010 - 10:03pm

    #39
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

[quote=Davos]Let me be super hypocritical (or sarcastic) “Help me understand”.

Because really, I want to know what drives such a large portion of our population to lie down, roll over and act as an effing door mat for some criminal with [email protected] on the bottom of their shoes. 

Personally – I have a problem with someone stealing the value out of my home, indebting me, indebting my children.[/quote]

Okay, it seems you can’t read, so I’ll spell it out for you.  You have no idea what you’re talking about.  Your blabbing as if you know something, but you actually don’t.

this law will not legalize foreclosure fraud, it will not make it any easier for banks to “steal” peoples houses, it will not help anyone steal value from your home, nor will it indebt you, or your children.

 

To the extent that these things will happen, it was caused long ago, and this law won’t change it or make it any easier.  It will make notarized documents from one state legal in another.  It won’t make robosigning acceptable, it won’t make improperly prepared paperwork suddenly legal and acceptable.

if you insist on complaining, take an hour, do some research and come back and complain about the right things. 

Your ignorance just makes you look/sound stupid.  I suggest you stop while you’re behind.

I hope that was clear and direct enough for you, as you requested.

I will not come back and try to explain all the ways you have no idea what you’re talking about, I will not rebut any more of your rambling, I will watch you look stupid from the sidelines from now on.

 

Finally, might I suggest you call the white house and yell at them about why home values drop when there are 10 time more sellers than buyers, that’s likely to help the situation about as much as this bit of ridiculousness.

[quote=Davos]

What I sent these morons.

If this link is factual then it means that you people are inept or you are paid whores to bank lobbyists and this pocket veto was just another trick turned by a slimy politician who just lied to us. I truly would like to believe that this link has an error in it. 

Action Alert – Is Pres Obama’s Pocket Veto on H.R. 3808 Possibly Ineffective?

[/quote]

if you go back and read some of the posts I have written about this, you will learn about how this mess got started, and you might understand better what your complaining about.  You will also see that I also highly disapprove of what the banks have done, and that the government is run by these idiots, and our “elected officials” mostly all need to go directly to jail, but I explain why that is, I don’t just say “their all a bunch of rats, and everyone sucks for letting them do what they want.”  which amounts to covering your ears and screaming like an 8 year old when someone tries to tell you something you don’t want to hear.

You are right to be angry, but you just don’t know what to be angry about, and it prevents anyone from taking your seriously.

Good day, and good luck!

  • Sat, Oct 09, 2010 - 10:51pm

    #40
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    Re: Lobbyrats 3 Americans 0 – WRITE This Wrong!

I sound like a rambling 8 year old? I’m not even going to dignify your “post” with a reply and if I did it would be a one M-“worder”. 

 

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