(Lack of) Presidential Leadership in the USA

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  • Sun, Jun 28, 2020 - 02:49pm

    #1
    David Henry

    David Henry

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    (Lack of) Presidential Leadership in the USA

I appreciate that PP has both blue and red tribe members, so I post this with a little bit of trepidation and a strong desire that the conversation remains respectful. But I think it’s time to address the reality that the USA is one of the worst hit nations by the Honeybadger virus and that part of this may trace back to how wearing masks has somehow become a political issue here.

There is a strong faction of people who in this country see wearing a mask as a restriction on their political freedom, and their defacto leader in this is President Trump. If he wore a mask and told other people, please wear a mask; many people would follow his leadership in this. But he doesn’t. I think this may be in part because he realizes his followers don’t want to wear masks and he doesn’t want to lose their support. But it might also be, in part at least, because he’s concerned about how he looks on TV and he doesn’t think wearing a mask is good look.

Of course this is just one issue. In general, President Trump has said the virus will simply go away on its own, suggested that we slow down testing (?!), and simply not offered a serious, consistent, science-based response to the virus.

This has been one factor (but a large factor I think, maybe the single largest factor) in how the US has responded haphazardly to the virus. This means extra deaths, extra economic damage, and further damage to the US’ standing in the world. Increasingly, the European union and some other countries are temporarily shutting their borders to US passport holders.

I just really lament that lack of leadership at the top has helped turn something as simple as wearing or not wearing facemasks into a divisive political debate when the science seems very clear and very simple. While I understand Chris’ reluctance to get into the territory of politics, if we as the PP community can’t have some reasoned discussion of this, then I have even less faith that the USA more generally can talk about this.

  • Sun, Jun 28, 2020 - 04:32pm

    #2
    Ihrtmetal

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    (Lack of) Presidential Leadership in the USA

In the last 30+ years that I’ve been cognizant of him, he hasn’t really changed. What has changed is our taste/desire for histrionics and sensationalism.  For people to have allowed his ‘ownership’ of companies to infer leadership have made some serious miscalculations. His craft for deflection and circular arguments has never been successfully checked; and that to me is the driver in all of this. I’m sure in a month or so, he’ll be speaking about how he was the first to promote mask wearing and how tremendously his efforts were to build the stockpiles but then Fauci cockblocked everything…

I never could stand him as a ‘person’; regardless of his alleged political affiliations. I see him for the little boy he is; just at that point where they figure out how to lie and start throwing tantrums when you call them on their BS.

I fail to see how he is a true republican anyhow, and certainly not conservative. He will blindly jump to whatever boxcar keeps him on track to ‘Luxury Town’. So, even the debate of his Oval Office occupation shouldn’t really be politicized.

But, on the positive(?) side, he’s been the catalyst for breakneck change of the status quo. Probably not in the way that the people who still support him are hoping…

  • Sun, Jun 28, 2020 - 04:57pm

    #3

    Oliveoilguy

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    The US is doing better than many European Countries Statistically

In terms of Deaths per 1M population the US is doing better than many of its peers including UK, Spain, Italy, France, and Sweden.

Also remember that there was much false info coming from the “so called” medical experts like Fauci. He told us not to wear masks for about a month. And he has contributed to the conspiracy against HCQ.

There is plenty of blame to go around…..especially as relates to China who lied and sent people around the world while limiting travel in their own country. Thank God someone had the courage to ban travel from China, while being called a racist for doing that.

Cuomo placed Covid patients in nursing homes without any help from higher government.

Lots to think about as you assign blame.

 

  • Sun, Jun 28, 2020 - 05:46pm

    #4
    Mohammed Mast

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    (Lack of) Presidential Leadership in the USA

I think you actually mean to say “governance” rather than politics. The problem with discussing politics here is it is very polarizing and people retreat into emotional belief systems.

Chris has spoken often of political figures but he keeps it objective and nonpartisan. That is an ability many lack. Thus political discussions tend to get heated and after all is said and done more gets said than done.

My own stance on the issue is, I am a citizen of the Universe and I do not require “leadership”. My requirement is very simple get out of my way. As Chris has pointed out more than once they are not leaders, they are managers. They are hired by people none of us know to do their bidding. They are not responsive to the people that vote, only to those who pay them.

It is clear ,as i have posted elsewhere, in the current situation they are either completely incompetent or are purposely “mismanaging” everything for purposes beyond our ken. The problem is the people still believe the myth of Amerikaan exceptionalism. I don’t believe anyone with half a brain could believe the managers are exceptional at managing anything. Could anyone possibly believe the current President is capable of managing a 4 trillion dollar economy and a population of 330 million? I see absolutely nothing in his resume that would lead me to believe he is qualified. Certainly this pandemic has exposed not only his weakness but that of the entire government.

I gave up the very idea a long time ago that there were political solutions to the human condition. The problems the US faces require a united country working together toward a common purpose. That requires vision. It requires the ability to step beyond partisanship and clearly and honestly elucidate the challenges and formulate a plan and assemble the people necessary to execute it. By any objective measure we left that reservation decades ago. So the bottom line is “you are on your own”

  • Sun, Jun 28, 2020 - 06:48pm

    #5
    DerHundIstLos

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    (Lack of) Presidential Leadership in the USA

It’s not about assigning “blame”, but holding accountable the man at the top who is responsible for leading the nation. Any objective analysis results in a failing grade for Trump- from his refusal to take seriously the pandemic to pimping dangerous and unproven medical treatments. Trump’s crowning achievement was his recommendation that people ingest disinfectant to eliminate the virus!!! Needless to say, poison control centers around the nation were inundated with phone calls.

However, I appreciate your unwavering loyalty to Trump. As Trump boasted, he could commit cold-blooded murder in the middle of Times Square at 12:00 noon on a business day and his supporters would declare his innocence. Revealing.

  • Sun, Jun 28, 2020 - 07:28pm

    #6

    Oliveoilguy

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    Presidential Leadership

What dangerous and unproven medical treatment are you referring to ? If it is HCQ, I suggest you get busy and read the actual data. Let’s talk again once you are up to speed.

  • Sun, Jun 28, 2020 - 08:59pm

    #7

    Jim H

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    David Henry and FFKling are woefully uninformed

Trump is up against a deep state intent on destroying him, and literally has been in this position since before he came into office.  He suggested hydroxychloroquine early on, which turns out to be very nearly a cure.  There is an entire thread almost 400 posts long documenting the science behind this.. and the many doctors also support it, including MD PhD and head of epidemiology at Yale Dr Harvey Risch, but since you both seem to get your, “facts” from CNN and MDNBC, I don’t expect that you know any of this.

https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/25085/

You are both very, very wrong.  You don’t know what is true.  You are propagandized and in the dark.  The truth is science, which I practice very day.  The truth is here, my post from today.  I would like to see either of you counter the data;

Hydroxychloroquine vs The Globalist Deep State

 

If you think you can come here and sling feces, you are dead wrong.  I will make you both look like fools.  Trump wanted to save us in the face of deep state moles like Dr. Bright who wanted you dead.  Instead of thanking him, you write these inane and uniformed posts.  Go ahead and try to do it again, I dare you.

 

  • Mon, Jun 29, 2020 - 02:11am

    #8

    davefairtex

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    mask wearing

I’m all for mask wearing in risky settings.  That includes subways, and when breathing cold recycled air with poor filtration in a group setting for a prolonged period of time.

In places such as outdoor settings, the evidence I’ve seen says risk of transmission is extremely low, and so my personal preference is not to wear a mask outside.  Or, say, when driving in a car by myself.

Trump is about marketing.  He doesn’t want to be seen to be marketing fear.  I get that, and mostly I agree with him, but I don’t agree with that as a universal approach to every situation.  Sensible and appropriate risk management is not the same thing as fear.

Like subways, for instance.  Masks should be required in subways.  Everyone is on top of each other, ventilation is poor, and science tells us that’s where a huge amount of transmission happens.

Did I mention wearing masks in subways yet?  A good idea.  Even Trump should wear a mask if he happened to be riding in a subway.  Even if he was taking HCQ as prophylaxis.  Which he should definitely be doing.

  • Mon, Jun 29, 2020 - 04:38am

    #9
    DerHundIstLos

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    Reply To: (Lack of) Presidential Leadership in the USA

I rely on the US Food and Drug Administration for determining drug safety and efficacy. As of 16 June 2020, the FDA announced that Hydroxychloroquine use in coronavirus treatment is no longer authorized.

A number of studies that appeared in the last few weeks provided evidence that hydroxychloroquine isn’t effective at blocking the virus, and can’t prevent infection with COVID-19. According to a joint statement by the FDA and WHO: “There’s now enough data to demonstrate that hydroxychloroquine isn’t a viable therapy in COVID-19. Accordingly, hydroxychloroquine’s emergency use authorization is withdrawn effective immediately.”

Yes, President Numbnuts who like to brag to his supporters and Republican confederates that he does not read, relied on early data from studies that did not meet standards for clinical trials.

 

  • Mon, Jun 29, 2020 - 05:02am

    #10

    Oliveoilguy

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    Presidential Leadership in the USA

Here is a paper published by Dr. Harvey Risch a world renowned Epidemiologist and Physician at Yale. (Paper was published on June 27, 2020).  He lays out the case for use of HCQ.

https://doi.org/10.1093/aje/kwaa093

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