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Is evolution itself an exponential function; where we are measuring consciousness change?

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  • Wed, Oct 15, 2008 - 01:45am



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    Evolution requires faith – it has no place in finance

s2r1 – I would be gald to discuss the financial implications of cycle studies by the likes of "Kondratieff, Robert Prechter, Martin Armstrong, Elliott waves". I agree you are on to something, the study of cycles has a direct implication to this discussion. Just leave out Evolution.

Connecting the dots in financial cycles is worthwhile. The real connection is Fibonacci mathematics, it is present in our DNA, the Solar System, and the way the DOW moves in socioeconomic trends that have patterns. Yesterdays huge rally is a typical wave 4 retracement, and wave 5 will completely eclipse to a new low soon.

For the critics, Evolution is a faith based religion for agnostics, it requires a belief in ‘billions of years’ to avoid dealing with a Creator. Go back and study Chris’s 6000 years of population growth ‘hockey stick’, and try to fit that in with a hockey stick a billion years old, it absolutely does not work. Not one person that supports Evolution has ever found a missing species link, or offered one credible example of a cell developing new information. Certainly DNA information can be lost producing variations, like a wolf becomes a poodle under genetics losses, but it is stil a dog. Before you start flaming me here, let me open another thread for those that wish to discuss the topic. Smile

Back to PeakProsperity.com


  • Wed, Oct 15, 2008 - 02:29am



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"For the critics, Evolution is a faith based religion for agnostics"

 Do you listen to yourself when you say things like this?  Go out and take a biology course. 

 It’s funny that every time some right wing religio-nut wants to say something bad about anyone else, they accuse them of religious belief.  It’s become a right wing talking point.  Science is science and religion is religion.  Don’t confuse them, they don’t belong in the same universe.

  • Wed, Oct 15, 2008 - 02:29am


    Reuben Bailey

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    Re: Evolution requires faith – it has no place in finance

You are right that this is the wrong place to discuss this (evolution vs. creation) – it seems to be heading a long way from the finacial side of life.  I am unfamiliar with the wave theories of which you speak, so I am in no position to comment on them.  I have heard of Fibonacci lines and fans, etc. in technical analysis, but have no experience with them either.

As for faith, there is much in life that is done in it’s name, good, bad, and otherwise.  

On a personal note, I find myself in a fix – I agree that this is not the appripriate forum to continue this discussion, but I would like to, just the same. You could say that you have found a nerve.

All the best

  • Wed, Oct 15, 2008 - 03:31am


    Quercus bicolor

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    A discussion of evolution might have relevance to finance.

Evolution vs creation is a hot button topic for many.  I would support it’s discussion on this site (but in another topic), if those involved can find some relevance to the rest of the site and they agree to respect and learn from each other.

With that said, can we agree that this thread will focus on discussing the relevance of evolution to the financial and ecological crisis we find ourselves in?  I think it might prove valuable.  Those who want to pursue this might want to read a little book by Peter Russell called Waking Up In Time.   He’s a great story teller, so please read the book.  I’ll summarize it here. Evolution began with the big bang 13 billion years ago.  Since then, it’s been like an exponential function, but with the doubling time decreasing as time progresses – even steeper than exponential!  At first it took billions of years for enough matter to congeal into stars and for heavier elements to be created inside the stars from hydrogen.  It’s only second or even third generation stars like our sun that had enough oxygen, iron, nitrogen, oxygen and other elements for life to be possible. 

When life started, it proceeded very slowly until photosynthesis developed about 3 billion years ago, greatly increasing the energy available to life.  Evolution proceeded very slowly by mutation only until sexual reproduction developed about 2 billion years ago.  Next came senses and primitive nervous systems about 1 billion years ago, more complex nervous systems including vertebrate animals about 700 million years ago, mammals with complex brains about 100 million years ago, primates who could make tools with their hands several million years ago, language and culture about 100 thousand years ago, writing and agriculture 5-10 thousand years ago. At some point here, people became conscious of their consciousness – consciousness knowing itself and able to consciously influence evolution, "Waking Up in Time".  Of course, unconscious patterns lurked beneath the surface and for the most part have subjected evolution to deeper, more primitive forces.

Since then, there new ideas and inventions have come at a faster and faster pace – sailing ships, steam engines, electricity, computers and electronic communication whose capabilities grow exponentially, manipulating the genetic code.  At this point, things are changing so quickly that we are fast approaching a singularity, the point where the system becomes unstable, breaks down, and eventually settles into an entirely different mode.  Hence the "hockey stick" curves Chris refers to in the Crash Couse.  Russell poses the question  will we "Wake up in Time" to move evolution under the influence of our consciousness that can value the long term and the whole as opposed to just me and my closest loved ones over the next few months or years?

That’s it for the book summary.  Here’s some personal opinion.

I think that is the perfect question to ask.  Let’s face it, if we keep moving blindly in the direction we’re going things are going to crash really hard, so hard that no amount of preparation will guarantee us protection.  If things really fall apart, I expect most of us would be touched by severe hardship as the population crashes.  So preparation will help, but conscious evolution complements it well.  It could help us find some new and unexpected solution either before the crash (perhaps preventing or more likely mitigating it), or after.  It will certainly help us live in extremely challenging times without losing our sanity and perhaps even while maintaining our happiness.

  • Wed, Oct 15, 2008 - 04:38am



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    Re: A discussion of evolution might have relevance to finance.


a little book by Peter Russell called Waking Up In Time.  

So preparation will help, but conscious evolution complements it well.  It could help us find some new and unexpected solution either before the crash (perhaps preventing or more likely mitigating it), or after.


I second this book recommendation!

Conscious evolution is really the key in the long run. Without it, we will repeat the same mistakes. With it, the meltdown of the global financial system will be an opportunity for a more enlightened monetary system.

Society doesn’t yet have the level of consciousness required to put a significantly better monetary system in place, but growth in consciousness is happening all the time. The fact that a book like "Waking Up In Time" gets mentioned on a forum like this is a sign of progress IMO.

  • Wed, Oct 15, 2008 - 09:25am



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    consciousness change

Hey, I agree, if it relates to the Crash Course, let us discuss that in a corner. A new Faith/Finance thread is here:


If we all keep doing the same mistakes, how can we expect anything to get better?

  • Thu, Oct 16, 2008 - 09:06am

    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Cycles, Fractal patterns, and Exponential functions


 Thanks for the reference to the Book Waking Up In Time

I am glad there was a spin off thread on "faith" as I wanted to focus on consciousness and modelling the world. There is an overlap with god when you really dig deep into the subject.

If you want to understand the world as a system then you need to investigate three key components.

  1. Cycles
  2. Fractal patterns
  3. Exponential functions

Here are some of the authors I have studied

  1. Fred Harrison(18 year land price cycle)
  2. Nokolai Kondratieff (60 year price/debt cycle)
  3. Oswald Spengler – book: "The Decline of the West" (1500-2000 civilisation cycles)
  4. Martin Armstrong (8.6 year PI cycle, fractal patterns)
  5. Robert Prechter (Elliott waves, fractal patterns, 300 years)
  6. Chris Martenson (exponential functions, 10,000 years)

Most authors try and model the world with only one of these components. Martin Armstrong was the exception as he used 2 components (cycles and fractal patterns)

Winston Churchill said, "The further back you look, the further forward you can see."

So why not create a model that incorporates all three components and goes back as far as the Big Bang.

This is exactly what Dr Carl Calleman has done in his 2 books and Ian Lungold presents in his Google videos.

I would go as far to say that Calleman’s model is so powerful that it can unify the 6 author’s works listed above. His model has metaphysical qualities too

It goes much further than the book Waking Up In Time in that he pin-points the date evolution completes – 28 October 2011 – 3 years away.

Sounds completely crazy? Most people would reject this concept. But when you really start to think about an evolution of consciousness model, this is exactly how it would work. We only realise right at the end what it was all about.

  • Tue, Oct 28, 2008 - 02:33am


    Stephen Lark

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    Re: consciousness change?



consciousness change.


I am glad to see someone at least mention the word consciousness on here.

Rising world consciousness is, IMO, the most important factor to consider in the context of the economic changes we are witnessing. Unfortunately, based on the replies I’ve read so far, this might not be the right place to have such a discussion.

Anyone want to start a thread about how rising consciousness plays into what we are seeing? Or should we go elsewere?


Hey ds, have a look at the first section (Basic Info) of this.

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