HR – Religious Exemption “gotcha” tactics

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  • Sun, Nov 28, 2021 - 09:41pm

    #1
    srj1972

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    HR – Religious Exemption “gotcha” tactics

Who can share the questions they faced when the submitted their exemption and lessons learned (either way)?

Shady questions designed to illicit informaiton from you “before” or at least at the same time as you submit your exemption request, which then can be used to pry futher hopefully providing them a plausible deniability option.

Who has faced this ?

How did things go if you answered them vs if you did not?

If you did not did you need to pull the “LAWYER” card in order to sufficiently disuade HR from insisting on full completion of their shady forms and questions?

I think Mike Yoder has guidance on this or forms and such but it seems his fee based seminars may have moved on to the “So you’ve been Denied now what” topics. Anybody know if this guidance or similar is available elsewhere?

 

  • Sun, Nov 28, 2021 - 11:30pm

    #2
    Minigoldendoodle

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    HR – Religious Exemption “gotcha” tactics

I reached out to a few civil rights attorneys when I was considering requesting a religious exemption.  One firm informed me that they had seen many employers requesting inappropriate information for the exemptions, such as requiring a signed statement from the head of an employee’s church, so they posted a page on their site to help people understand what can and cannot be asked when seeking an exemption: https://robertslaw.org/do-i-have-a-right-to-refuse-to-be-vaccinated-or-to-refuse-medical-treatment/

The page is not well organized but has lots of information to help you understand if your employer may be violating your civil rights.  Good luck.

  • Mon, Nov 29, 2021 - 02:16am

    #3
    nordicjack

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    HR – Religious Exemption “gotcha” tactics

They specifically try to catch you – that you might not have a real religious conviction or cause.   For instance they may ask you what you object to – and one might say fetal tissue.   However, there is no fetal tissue in the vaccine. ( though used in the development of the vaccines)  So you have to be careful that is some objection that they can actually over-come.  You should be broad and vague if you must say why.   However, almost all religions have some( actually many) cause to not allow vaccines, or medicines in general.   And yet all actually do allow vaccines. Meaning for political reasons, your church “officials” may say its okay to take.  They do this to allow people who really feel its necessary.   Not because the religion truly allows or says its okay.   So, this crap where you get an official of your religion to sign something again is a real way to catch you into not applying your right.  Just like drs , you can find one who says vaccines are okay and another who says its not okay.

The bottom line, is almost every single religion, Hindu , Buddhism, Christianity all consider the body a temple.  And actually a temple of god.     You hear health conscious people state this all the time – not realizing how one who actually is health conscious is actually applying faith and religion.  So you can see, just from this common phrase, there is seriousness in religion to putting only natural healthful god given things into your body. ( not synthetic fabricated man-made things ) Further trying to circumvent all disease in the world is like playing GOD.  Who is to play god with natural ways and the will of GOD?   There are many people who accept all things good and bad as the will of GOD – as spiritual means of coping with all that is given in their life.   Medicine is playing GOD.   or at least medicating as preventative or medicating a healthy person.  Some people as myself do not even believe in western medicine for cancer treatment.   But if you do this, you wont hear people call you crazy , stupid anti-vaxx nut jobs.

There is real reason for and foundation for religious cause.  For most non jews, putting milk in the same refrigerator is as meat, is not a big deal and could never understand why Jews will not only store these separate but not consume them in the same meal.   This probably sounds like nonsense to Christians and others.  But if you understood biology and nutrition and dietetics, you would actually find there are negative biological issues with doing this. So, my point, there are reasons religions have these rules – and today with modern science we can even substantiate viable reasoning why our ancestors did this and we should too.    How did our ancient ancestors know this?  well I can tell you most of this ” special knowledge” is passed in the form of religion.

You don’t need tons of evidence to make religious belief credible – it has thousands of years of  foundation.  PERIOD.

  • Mon, Nov 29, 2021 - 07:43am

    #4
    squashdoc

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    Exemption Forms

I haven’t needed an exemption as I am retired however Gerald Celente of Trends Forecasting claims to have a “bulletproof ” form which a team of lawyers has perfected. Check out his Freedom, Peace and Justice party for free access to these forms.

  • Mon, Nov 29, 2021 - 08:57am

    #5
    Bonesaw93

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    HR – Religious Exemption “gotcha” tactics

Make sure not to mention a specific denomination as they can use that against you.  I’m Catholic and if I listed that they could counter that the pope said it’s ok so I would be denied.  If you say you’re Christian for example it’s much harder.  Also don’t mention safety/efficacy, only argue on religious grounds.  Yes I also added a statement at the end that if they denied me I reserved my  right to take legal action should I be denied.

One more thing to keep in mind, even if they can’t argue against your case they can claim “undue hardship” if accommodating your exemption is too difficult for the business.  For example, if someone works in a factory and can’t distance or something.  I’m a remote employee so it would have been really difficult for my company to claim that.

  • Mon, Nov 29, 2021 - 09:25am

    #6
    sand_kitty

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    HR – Religious Exemption “gotcha” tactics

I’m in the middle of the RE process too.  Here is what I have found in my reading:

1.  Your religious beliefs can be yours alone.  Your employer does not get to critique the “rightness” of your beliefs or evaluate them for consistency or compare them to any external standards.  This is not a theology Ph.D. program.  You are not here to debate.

2.  Facts, statistics and data do not matter.  Only your religious beliefs.  Don’t include facts.  Just report your religious beliefs.  You do NOT need to mention the word “vaccine” anywhere.  No statistics.  No laws, no discussion of ingredients, no VAERS reports.

3.  It need not be a common religion nor an organized religious group.  You do not need to have a religious leader sign off for you.  Religious beliefs can be your personal religious beliefs.  You do not need to quote from scripture (though you can).  One friend’s example:

Important questions are taken to God everyday in prayer.  I ask for his guidance.  Then I sit quietly in prayer to listen.  The “still small voice” of God speaks in my heart and I come to know what is right for me.  His voice is the only, the truest and the final guide in my life.

4.  Don’t do theological debates and argument.  Don’t say anything that can be debated or countered.

You beliefs must be sincere, deeply held and pertain to the way that you make moral decisions.  The religious exemption can also apply to a secular moral compass “that is held deeply and sincerely” and guides your decisions about “right and wrong.”

A belief can be “secular,” native American in style, focused on nature and the unity of life.  It is YOUR belief and the guide for your moral decisions.

Short is better.  Just report your sincerely held beliefs in a way that is only your sincerely held and personal beliefs.  Give nothing to argue.

—–

Interestingly your personal preference doesn’t count!!!!

Unless your preference is guided by a moral principle  OR  a personal spiritual connection to a guiding Higher Power, Something Bigger or a spiritual sense of Life (with the capital L).

Decisions are made at your company, not by the federal government.

Use of the words God, Prayer and Meditation probably will make it easier for the HR person to perceive your approach as a religious statement.

 

  • Mon, Nov 29, 2021 - 09:51am

    #7
    anastasio

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    HR – Religious Exemption “gotcha” tactics

Here are the questions that a friend of mine had to answer to apply for their religious exemption to the vaccine to keep their job. Notice how they try to trip you up if you are going to claim that you object to a particular ingredient or testing method. I find this entire questioning revolting. They were told by a doctor that the only way a medical exemption would be granted is if you had a severe reaction to a first shot. Sick.

A lot of great tips posted above. Don’t try to argue science or your rights. Play the game and tell how this violates your sincerely held personal beliefs, even if you don’t  participate in a “recognized” religious practice.

1. Please identify your sincerely held religious belief, practice or observance that is the basis for your request for an exemption from the COVID-19 vaccine requirement.

2. Would complying with the COVID-19 vaccination requirement substantially interfere with exercise of your religious beliefs? If so, please explain how.

3. How long have you held the religious belief underlying your objection?

4. During the period you have held the religious belief or practice, describe how thoroughly you have practiced it (e.g., have you practiced it without exception or have you practiced it piecemeal; have you gotten other vaccines while holding your religious belief or practice)?

5. Please describe whether, as an adult, you have received any vaccines against any other diseases (such as a flu or tetanus vaccine, among others) and, if so, what vaccine you most received and when, to the best of your recollection.

6. If you do not have a religious objection to the use of all vaccines, please explain why your objection is limited to particular vaccines.

7. If there are any other medicines or products that you do not use because of the religious belief underlying your objection, please identify them.

8. Please provide any additional information that you think may be helpful in reviewing your request.

  • Mon, Nov 29, 2021 - 09:56am

    #8
    KCPS

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    HR – Religious Exemption “gotcha” tactics

Courts have consistently upheld one’s sincerely held beliefs need not be the official stance of their church -i.e. the (imposter) Pope says its “an act of love” to get jabbed does not meant your conscious allows it. Many Catholics don’t receive Eucharist in the hand because they sincerely believe it is sacrilege, for example. despite the Vatican’s official stance that it is permissible. It would be grotesque to mandate receipt of the sacrament in the hand.

Per consistency, A Muslim woman, for example, cannot be forced to eat pork even if she doesn’t wear a hijab.

You need not be a hardcore practitioner of every tenet of your faith, and you need not adopt the official view of your Church.

 

Your best bet is to write your statement from the heart and give no more and no less information than what is requested. And yes, many forms have questions to “trip you up.” So know why you object, to what other products this objection would apply. The Federal Government form asks “what other products do you not use?” They can’t ask what you *do* use, because that is a violation of the ADA, so see how they get sneaky with the posing of the question.

My statement asked my opinion on monoclonal antibodies, which is REALLY pushing the envelope on trying to trip up those who object to products derived from aborted fetal cell testing (Regeneron tested on aborted baby cells). Such “gotcha” attempts probably crosses the line into targeted harassment, and it certainly crosses the line of invasion of privacy. Regeneron is not being mandated, so it is none of their freaking business what my opinion is. However, I answered consistently because I know their game.

If my request is denied, I fully intend to sue.

 

The behavior of those pushing these mandates is all very disgusting. Have faith they will be held to account for their tyranny and persecution.

  • Mon, Nov 29, 2021 - 10:06am   (Reply to #7)

    #9
    KCPS

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    HR – Religious Exemption “gotcha” tactics

@ Anastasio posted the questions on the Federal employees request form. Many companies have just taken the same questions verbatim. Some will throw in an extra “gotcha” about monclonals, and my guess is they are doing this a) to trip you up b) because monoclonals are expensive and may impact company offered medical insurance.

Its all so gross. These people deserved everything that is coming to them.

  • Mon, Nov 29, 2021 - 10:33am

    #10
    sand_kitty

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    HR – Religious Exemption “gotcha” tactics

I agree with anastacio and KCPS above.  Don’t fall for the many tricks offered.

Did you have a flu shot last year?

Yes.

If yes, explain what religious beliefs make the COVID shot different?

This is my sense of guidance from God.

—–

Don’t let the HR people lead you into a labyrinth of theology, debate and legal discussion of religious principles.

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