Health Care Reform?

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  • Thu, Aug 13, 2009 - 06:12pm

    #31
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Health Care Reform?

“Health insurance is fundamentally about peace of mind. If you have good insurance, you don’t have to worry about an accident or sudden illness. You know that whatever happens, you and your family will be taken care of.”

http://www.ninjagreens.com

  • Thu, Aug 13, 2009 - 07:15pm

    #32
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    Re: Health Care Reform?

 

 

HAHAH Health Care Reform.  More like PATCH WORK REFORM.  

Want to know how to keep Costs LOW…..Click Listen and Laugh…………http://www.youtube.com/watch

  • Thu, Aug 13, 2009 - 10:18pm

    #33
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    Re: Health Care Reform?

There are a couple of things that have been bothering me about the health care reform.

For now let’s assume that it does not matter what is IN the bill.  Lets just look at the numbers.

1.  Here is a quote from kaiseredu.org ( http://www.kaiseredu.org/topics_im.asp?imID=1&parentID=61&id=358 )"In 2007, U.S. health care spending was about $7,421 per resident and accounted for 16.2% of the nation’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP)".  We have $7,421.00 X 300,000,000 people = $2,226,300,000,000.00 – Wow!  2.25 Trillion dollars in healthcare per year.  Who is going to pay for this?  Everyone keeps focusing on the contents of the bill (like the spinners want you to) but how many have focused on the actual cost.  If the government program is the only player that offers healthcare plans then the entire 2.25 trillion dollar bill is theirs.  Now granted this is a Total health cost (Like the GDP  is calculated).  Take one asprin that goes from manufactruer to supplier to distributor to hospital to pharmacy to patient.  this 10 cent asprin gets marked up and resold multiple time so the GDP for that one asprin is $10.00 (you get the point).  Unfortunatley when I do a search of total healthcare costs they give it in GDP Format.  So lets look at one item that does not have this problem.  In 2006 there were 633,000 Medical doctors in the US(http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm#earnings) and based off a 2005 report the average pay for a doctor (7 groups averaged out) was $216,000.00.  This totals to $136,728,000,000.00. Whoa! 136 Billion Dollars and not 1 nurse, hospital stay, or ambulance ride. 

Well let’s see what the Government says it will cost for our reformed healthcare http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/10/business/moneywatch/main5230656.shtml Based off this article the government says that they will spend 1 Trillion over the next 10 years for a total average of 100 billion per year.  Wait a minute didnt we just calculate that just the cost of the doctors in the US was 136 billion dollars?  So where is the money coming from?  Now granted there will still be private insurance companies that will foot some of the bill, but the government budget number comes way short.  Whether you look at the Healthcare GDP or just the cost of the doctors it is not good.

2.  SOOOoooo whats this going to cost me?  I have not heard one word on how much my paycheck will be effected.  My gut tells me they will set the payments up like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicade.  They just give a number and pull it out of my check.  If you look at the Healthcare cost per person (GDP Format) of $7,421.00 X 3 the # of  people in my household = $22,000.00. 

3.  In the end I have to ask myself why are they doing this?  My anwser is to add revenue to the US government balance sheet.  So they can take the money, put it into the general fund, write IOU’s, and stick the IOU’s into a filing cabinet.  How elese are they going to get another $10,000.00 per year out of every family household.  Then in 10 or 20 years Healthcare reform will be broke just like the others.

4.  I have been to a couple of sites and looked at the reform arguments.  I keep asking myself the same question. Is the government going to change the rules after the bill is passed- Just like Tarp and the bail out?  In the end what you see written is not what you will get.

5.  Who takes care of auto accidents?  The government or the car insurance company.  Right now there is overlapping coverage between the auto insurance (full coverage) and the health insurance.  If you get into an accident there is a primary insurer and a secondary insurer.  Hopefully the secondary will cover what the primary will not.  Some people go with Liability only insurance because their helath insurance will cover them (why pay both?)  But under the government plan are you covered for an auto accident?  Is there going to be a difference between me falling out of a tree and breaking my arm or getting into a car wreck and breaking my arm?  In the end who is going to pay?

  • Sat, Aug 15, 2009 - 05:51pm

    #34
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    Re: Health Care Reform?

 

TAX BREAK SOLUTIONS

 

Companies that Promote GOOD HEALTHY LIFESTYLES would get Tax breaks.

People who Quit Smoking get tax breaks

Loosing a certain amount of weight get tax breaks.  

 

  • Sun, Aug 16, 2009 - 10:48pm

    #35
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    Re: Health Care Reform?

 Hi all,

Reading through many of the posts, it looks like most posters seem to feel that the free market would best assure great healthcare, and that gov’t intervention – including many existing programs like Medicaid and Medicare aren’t good things.  

If I’m seeing that correctly, I’d have to say I disagree in a big way.   Monopolistic powers, (including those that seem to own and operate Congress these days), need to be countered by some force that actually stands up for average citizens.   For better or worse, that force can only be representative government.  This website is all about what happens when unrestrained "free marketeers" (pirates) like Goldman Sachs and all the rest aren’t properly controlled by a government that is of, by and looking out for the people.  Our government hasn’t functioned effectively on behalf of the public for a long time.  In my opinion, that’s because it’s hugely hamstrung by corporations and the wealthy elite.   We all should know by now who’s been making out like bandits for the last decade or two, and it ain’t the poor or those terrible "welfare moms".   It’s a major strategic mistake to assume that corporations (like insurance companies) are your friend and the government isn’t.  That’s the bill of goods that the elite in this country have been successfully selling to Americans for some time.   The "free market", once it overwhelmed the ability of governments to serve as a counter force, is what is bringing the world down around us – and it will continue to do so if left unchecked.  

As you may know, the founders of the US were *extremely* wary of giving any real power to corporations.    They saw them as a means of collecting power without responsibility, perpetrating fraud and all the rest that we are seeing today in spades.

By failing to find a way to make representative government (eg Congress, etc) our "community" at the macro level, it looks like we’re going to need to give up on the big picture and do it now at the grassroots level.  Either way, those big insurance companies will just never be your friend or mine.  I am amazed that so many Americans can look at the trainwreck that is US free market healthcare and how much better government sponsored healthcare is in virtually every other civilized country, but still buy the Big Lie these folks put out.  I’ve run a business for many years and insured my employees, been an independent contractor and insured myself, been an employee, etc. – so I’ve seen it from all angles, and it is not pretty.

  • Tue, Aug 18, 2009 - 05:02am

    #36
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    Re: Health Care Reform?

Kelvinator,

We do not have a free market system of healthcare in the U.S., and have not had so since the early 1900’s.  There is much wrong with our current healthcare system, but I believe that government involvement has played a big part.  Beginning in the 1920’s, and increasing markedly with the enactment of Medicare and Medicaid in 1965, government has been an increasingly large player in our healthcare system.  Currently, government is the source of 45% of current healthcare spending, according to the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS).  The fact is, we already have a largely socialized healthcare system, and the remaining, so-called “private” healthcare system, is actually price-fixed by our government.

Government is not the entire problem, but, in my opinion, as a physician and small business owner, it is a big part of the problem.

  • Tue, Aug 18, 2009 - 06:21am

    #37
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    Re: Health Care Reform?

Chris Peters

As you know, we disagree about how to solve the current health crisis — at the moment I come down in favor of Kelvinator’s comments and believe that the health insurance system is manipulated by the companies beyond reason for their profits and benefits for executives causing much of the problem we are facing.

Perhaps a link worth reading is on the Physicians for National Health website at :

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php#socialized

Jim

  • Tue, Aug 18, 2009 - 06:27am

    #38
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    Re: Health Care Reform?

[quote=DJETH]

 

3.  In the end I have to ask myself why are they doing this?  My anwser is to add revenue to the US government balance sheet.  So they can take the money, put it into the general fund, write IOU’s, and stick the IOU’s into a filing cabinet.  How elese are they going to get another $10,000.00 per year out of every family household.  Then in 10 or 20 years Healthcare reform will be broke just like the others.

[/quote]

This is exactly what I have been thinking. They need access to a new revenue stream and heath care is a logical socialist extension. The government can quote the taxpayer any price and force the doctors and hospitals to accept whatever they will pay. We already know how the government books get cooked with everything else they get their hands on.

We embarked on socialism long ago under the New Deal. Perhaps in the next few decades we will see the New, New Deal revisited again.

  • Tue, Aug 18, 2009 - 11:55am

    #39
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    Re: Health Care Reform?

I agree with Doc Peters that .gov spoils all that they touch.

However, I don’t think the delivery of “health-care” – is, should be, or can be a free market commidity.

D n’t believe what insurance companies are saying. Their SOLE purpose is to make money for their shareholders.

More later….. i’m late for work.

  • Tue, Aug 18, 2009 - 05:30pm

    #40
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    Re: Health Care Reform?

As already mentioned, this is an incredibly complex subject. Therefore, no one answer (i.e., universal coverage) is likely to address all problems.

As to further governmental involvement, I don’t see how anyone can look at government’s past performance and glean any hope that they have the capacity to make things better. Certainly, past increased governmental involvement has not prevented the unsustainable rise in healthcare costs we have seen for several decades.

The following chart is based upon CMS data, publicly available:

 

Medicare and Medicaid were enacted in 1965, and multiple additional government programs and regulations followed. I grant this does not show cause and effect, but it is certainly hard to argue that increased government involvement has served to contain healthcare spending.

Finally, with a federal deficit of $11 trillion, and unfunded liabilities of $39 trillion for Medicare/Medicaid, $8 trillion for Medicare Part D, and $10 trillion for Social Security, how do we really expect to provide additional healthcare coverage, and be financially sustainable?

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