Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

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  • Sat, Jun 19, 2010 - 04:26pm

    #241
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    Tony Gets His Life Back

Well Tony is getting his life back

I am so happy for him. I am curious though why they did not move the race to the Gulf of Mexico? The water is a lot slipperier there and the boats would have gone much faster. But hey what do I know about yachts?

V

ps Have these people ever heard of Edward Bernays and the science of Public Relations.

 

As oil spews in Gulf, BP chief at UK yacht race

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By RAPHAEL SATTER

Associated Press Writer

LONDON – BP chief executive Tony Hayward, often criticized for being tone-deaf to U.S. concerns about the worst oil spill in American history, took time off Saturday to attend a glitzy yacht race off England’s Isle of Wight.

Spokeswoman Sheila Williams said Hayward took a break from overseeing BP efforts to stem the undersea gusher in Gulf of Mexico to watch his boat “Bob” participate in the J.P. Morgan Asset Management Round the Island Race.

The one-day yacht race is one of the world’s largest, attracting hundreds of boats and thousands of sailors.

In a statement, BP described Hayward’s day off as “a rare moment of private time” and said that “no matter where he is, he is always in touch with what is happening within BP” and can direct recovery operations if required.

That is likely to be a hard sell in Gulf states struggling to deal with the up to 120 million gallons of oil that have escaped from a blown-out undersea well.

A pair of relief wells that won’t be done until August is the best bet to stop the massive spill that was set off by an oil rig explosion that killed 11 workers on April 20. BP has been hammered for its response, in part because of comments by Hayward that Gulf Coast residents horrified by the spill consider insensitive.

By late June, the oil giant hopes it can keep nearly 90 percent of the flow from hitting the ocean. Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen on Friday said a newly expanded containment system is capturing or incinerating more than 1 million gallons (3.8 million liters) of oil daily, the first time it has approached its peak capacity.

British environmental groups immediately slammed Hayward’s outing. Charlie Kronick of Greenpeace said Hayward was “rubbing salt into the wounds” of Gulf residents whose livelihoods have been wrecked by the disaster.

“Clearly it is incredibly insulting for him to be sailing in the Isle of Wight,” he said.

Hugh Walding, the coordinator of the Isle of Wight Friends of the Earth, said Hayward’s choice of venue was sure to arouse anger.

“I’m sure that this will be seen as yet another public relations disaster,” Walding said.

Hayward’s public persona has already dented the company’s image. Hayward angered many in the United States when he was quoted in the Times of London as suggesting that Americans were particularly likely to file bogus claims. He later shocked residents in Louisiana by telling them that no one wanted to resolve the crisis as badly as he did, adding: “I’d like my life back.”

On Thursday, Hayward told lawmakers on a U.S. House investigations panel that he was out of the loop on decisions surrounding the blown well. Both Democrats and Republicans were infuriated when he asserted, “I’m not stonewalling.”

The next day, BP Chairman Carl-Henric Svanberg seemed to suggest that Hayward was being withdrawn from the front line of the oil spill response, although his comments were later qualified by company spokespeople.

“It is clear that Tony has made remarks that have upset people,” Svanberg said in a U.K. television interview.

It was not clear whether Hayward actually took part in Saturday’s race or attended as a spectator. Williams refused to comment beyond saying that the embattled chief executive was there with his son.

Peta Stuart-Hunt, a press officer for the event, said Hayward “wasn’t listed on any of the crew list.” She said she could not immediately who was on the crew list.

“If he is on the boat, he’s in contravention of the rules,” she said.

Associated Press Writer Ray Henry contributed from New Orleans.

Read more: http://www.kansas.com/2010/06/18/1367367/getting-life-back-bp-ceo-on-way.html#ixzz0rJgnGqWZ

  • Sat, Jun 19, 2010 - 04:31pm

    #242
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

He better make sure that he doesnt leave his car unattended for too long..

  • Sat, Jun 19, 2010 - 06:09pm

    #243
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

[quote=V]

Have these people ever heard of Edward Bernays and the science of Public Relations.

[/quote]

RATFLMAO!!!

A big hand for Edward Bernays …

~ VF ~

  • Sat, Jun 19, 2010 - 09:06pm

    #244
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

CHAPTER I
ORGANIZING  CHAOS
THE  conscious and intelligent manipulation of the
organized habits and opinions of the masses is an
important element in democratic society. Those who
manipulate this unseen mechanism of society consti-
tute an invisible government which is the true ruling
power of our country.

these are the opening passages from bernays book 1928 propaganda  and if frightens the hell out of me and i dont mean in a conspiricy way but PR and its manifestations are an abhorance to society and stops the real societal growth and maturity that is needed for progress and not mearly progress that is planned and constructed for a section of society

i ask why would any one want to be in PR why do you want to change the instincs of the individual ( its pretty much to get them to consume what they dont want to ) its quite perverse in a sense that people want to control other people , on what moral athourity and ethical authority does one think they have when controling people and thoughts

imagine at 16 or 17 stating that one wants to be in or become a PR administrator or rep even at 20 or 30 it is a perverse thought that one wants to do a job that controls others and not have a societal input in some differing way . again i think the police and judicary apply here to

bernays and his theories are flawed in the sense that they protect the minority it protects the elite from reveling what they are and keeps the larger sections of society muted and ignorant.

if taken at its fundamental his theories give validity to many crimes from oil to bannanas

like post structuralism can validate many atrocities by its flawed thinking they both should be rejected by philosophy as flawed ( while post structuralism has important parts that are good ) bernays hole thesis is based on moraly wrong actions to gain ones own outcomes even if they go against moral and cultural thought.

  • Sun, Jun 20, 2010 - 04:01am

    #245
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

Matt Simmons was on Bloomberg earlier, adding some additional perspective to his original appearance on the station, in which he initially endorsed the nuclear option as the only viable way to resolve the oil spill. Simmons refutes even the latest oil spill estimate of 45,000-60,000 barrels per day, and in quoting research by the Thomas Jefferson research vessel which was compiled late on Sunday, quantifies the leak at 120,000 bpd. What is scarier is that according to the Jefferson the oil lake underneath the surface of the water could be covering up to 40% of the entire Gulf of Mexico. Simmons also says that as the leak has no casing, a relief well will not work, and the only possible resolution is, as he said previously, to use a small nuclear explosion to convert the rock to glass. Simmons concludes that as punishment for BP’s arrogance and stupidity the government “will take all their cash.” Now if only our own administration could tell us the truth about what is really happening in the gulf…

Oil Covers 40% Of Gulf Beneath The Surface

  • Sun, Jun 20, 2010 - 05:00am

    #246
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

The BP Oil Spill – Worst Case Scenario

Wondering what the worst case scenario is in the Gulf of Mexico?

One person, SHR (aka dougr at The Oil Drum), posts a very detail analysis that seems to be getting more acurate as time passes – witness the details provided today about the containment operation.

Several knowledgable oil folks from the region have privately indicated that this guy has it right, or is on the right track..

You should read the two posts linked at the end of the except from his second post to really understand what he’s saying, but if you don’t here’s the skinny.

Contrary to what most of us would think as logical to stop the oil mess, actually opening up the gushing well and making it gush more became direction BP took after confirming that there was a leak. In fact if you note their actions, that should become clear. They have shifted from stopping or restricting the gusher to opening it up and catching it. This only makes sense if they want to relieve pressure at the leak hidden down below the seabed…..and that sort of leak is one of the most dangerous and potentially damaging kind of leak there could be. It is also inaccessible which compounds our problems. There is no way to stop that leak from above, all they can do is relieve the pressure on it and the only way to do that right now is to open up the nozzle above and gush more oil into the gulf and hopefully catch it, which they have done, they just neglected to tell us why, gee thanks.

A down hole leak is dangerous and damaging for several reasons.
There will be erosion throughout the entire beat up, beat on and beat down remainder of the “system” including that inaccessible leak. The same erosion I spoke about in the first post is still present and has never stopped, cannot be stopped, is impossible to stop and will always be present in and acting on anything that is left which has crude oil “Product” rushing through it. There are abrasives still present, swirling flow will create hot spots of wear and this erosion is relentless and will always be present until eventually it wears away enough material to break it’s way out. It will slowly eat the bop away especially at the now pinched off riser head and it will flow more and more. Perhaps BP can outrun or keep up with that out flow with various suckage methods for a period of time, but eventually the well will win that race, just how long that race will be?…no one really knows….However now?…there are other problems that a down hole leak will and must produce that will compound this already bad situation.

This down hole leak will undermine the foundation of the seabed in and around the well area. It also weakens the only thing holding up the massive Blow Out Preventer’s immense bulk of 450 tons. In fact?…we are beginning to the results of the well’s total integrity beginning to fail due to the undermining being caused by the leaking well bore.

(…)

It’s a race now…a race to drill the relief wells and take our last chance at killing this monster before the whole weakened, wore out, blown out, leaking and failing system gives up it’s last gasp in a horrific crescendo.

We are not even 2 months into it, barely half way by even optimistic estimates. The damage done by the leaked oil now is virtually immeasurable already and it will not get better, it can only get worse. No matter how much they can collect, there will still be thousands and thousands of gallons leaking out every minute, every hour of every day. We have 2 months left before the relief wells are even near in position and set up to take a kill shot and that is being optimistic as I said.

Over the next 2 months the mechanical situation also cannot improve, it can only get worse, getting better is an impossibility. While they may make some gains on collecting the leaked oil, the structural situation cannot heal itself. It will continue to erode and flow out more oil and eventually the inevitable collapse which cannot be stopped will happen. It is only a simple matter of who can “get there first”…us or the well.

We can only hope the race against that eventuality is one we can win, but my assessment I am sad to say is that we will not.

The system will collapse or fail substantially before we reach the finish line ahead of the well and the worst is yet to come.

Sorry to bring you that news, I know it is grim, but that is the way I see it….I sincerely hope I am wrong.

We need to prepare for the possibility of this blow out sending more oil into the gulf per week then what we already have now, because that is what a collapse of the system will cause. All the collection efforts that have captured oil will be erased in short order. The magnitude of this disaster will increase exponentially by the time we can do anything to halt it and our odds of actually even being able to halt it will go down.

Let’s hope he’s wrong…

  • Sun, Jun 20, 2010 - 05:14am

    #247
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

Million of Gallons per day now —- How will you sue for the collapse of the food chain?

monetary collapse June 18th, 2010  

2 Quarts oil per 2 miles cubed of sea equals toxicity rate and kills 1/10 of the plant life and the level just above will show an exponentially higher impact — It takes thousands of bugs to feed one frog — it takes a lot of plants to keep one little fish alive.

How will you sue BP, Trans Ocean formally known as Cenco, and the current corporation Nalco for dumping equally poisonous chemicals into the sea to disperse the oil making the coasts uninhabitable for some animals and sensitive people?

26 Billion in profit last year — no one required them to build a relief well as they drilled the pumping well — No one noticed when they used the same failed techniques they tried in 1979 Negligence corruption involving a succession of governments including the current one.

This accident happened by “yes man” disease — it runs rampant in corporations and governments .

But how will you sue — anyone — for the collapse of a food chain?

The sea supports all life everywhere — the weather, the waves, the algae, the fish — absolutely all life, no matter how many miles inland they live, depend on the sea as the cradle of life at the base of the food chain — killed by gross negligence and complicit back room deals — What monetary worth will you place on that in your statement of claim?

What’s really outrageous is how many of these big companies pay no taxes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/12/national/main4342535.shtml

  • Sun, Jun 20, 2010 - 06:27pm

    #248
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

Are Naturally-Occurring Radioactive Materials (NORM) spewing from the Deepwater Horizon oil leak?

There has been some scientific evidence that toxic NORM (and here) may be an integral part of oil mining.  And there is evidence that Uranium and Thorium are known to be in great quantities at greater depths and the Deepwater Horizon was drilling in the deepest offshore reserve to date. 

“The energy coming from uranium and thorium decay is thought to be the most significant energy source inside the earth,” Tolich said. “So this is the driving engine for things such as tectonic plate movements, volcanoes and earthquake. We are looking for neutrinos, particularly electron antineutrinos … coming from uranium and thorium decay inside the earth. The uranium and thorium is distributed all through the earth in the mantle. One part in 10 million of the earth’s mass is thought to be made of uranium and thorium.”

Less than scientific sources have reported that elevated radioactivity is present in the gulf but this has not been confirmed as far as I know.  Would this explain why huge amounts of toxic Corexit has been used and why the area seems to off-limits to journalists?

I’m not suggesting that this is taking place but I do think it is worth some consideration. Radioactivity at another oil field: 

Larry

  • Mon, Jun 21, 2010 - 06:05pm

    #249
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

[quote=roamingpoke]

[quote=The Evolutionary Ape]

Right the government failed to properly drill in the Gulf.  Poor BP. 

How bout this, individuals find ways to limit their use of oil and oil related and produced products as much as possible so that deep sea drilling is minimal.  It’s inevitable, but we can at least try to slow it down by  weaning our oil addiciton.

All this blaming accomplishes nothing and is divisive.  We have a serious environmental catastrophe and  Fox wants to rile people up rather than offer solutions every individual can implement immediately.   This reminds me of why I got rid of my TV or as I like to call it the Propaganda Machine.

[/quote]

You know, you make a pretty good point.  My question is, “How do you stop the consumption of fossil fuels that are in everything from gasoline to lipstick?”

Unfortunately, most Americans are not willing or even considering lowering their quality of life for any reason or for anybody.  I am not quite ready to start riding a bicycle to work.  It would do wonders for me, but is not practical.  The point is, that the higher the per capita consumption of energy (all energy) also translates into the strongest economic output.  That puts the United States right at the top of the consumption chain and pretty high on the QOL charts as well.  Simply put, we are addicted to oil and to prosperity.

My intention is not to single you out but to draw attention to a problem that is not going to go away any time soon.  I am just trying to draw some clarity between just wishing for something and practical solutions.  I cannot find any.  Please note the blog enclosed by Robert Bryce of the Energy Tribune; these are the real facts that we are dealing with.  And please pay particular attention to the pie-chart.  There is not even a sliver for the vaunted wind/solar energy because it is so small on the world’s energy usage list that it would not show on the chart. 

At the end of the day, this is a very serious problem with no practical solutions!

http://www.energytribune.com/articles.cfm/4174/A-Short-Lesson-In-Scale-and-Global-Power-Demand

 

 

 

[/quote]

@roamingpoke, I don’t mind being singled out.  I learn by having my ideas challenged, so thank you.

Like Deggleton stated, the decline of oil supply is going happen sooner or later regardless of what humans are used to as a way of life. 

I really challenge your views though.  What makes you think continual strong economic output is a good thing, especially given the declining supply of natural resources like fresh water, fertile soil, copper, timber, and oil? 

You stated, we are high on the Quality of Life charts.  By whose standards? Is America really addicted to prosperity? Is three I-Pods, a flat screen TV, three car garage house, $150k of credit card and mortgatge debt, working 40 plus hours at a job one has no passion for to pay bills and blah blah blah….is that the quality of life and prosperity you are referring to?  This prosperity addiction you speak of, does it translate to happiness?  Does it translate to strong families and communities?  Are we talking about prosperity or consumerism?  If we have such a high quality of life why does our society experience rampant depression, one of the highest divorce rate in the world, one of the world’s highest suicide rates, child criminals, rampant corporate fraud, rampant drug and alcohol addiction and blah blah blah? 

These are my personal views, but Dr. Martenson does an excellent job at challenging the continuous growth paradigm versus real prosperity in chapter 5 of the Crash Course.  If you haven’t already done so, I’d highly recommend checking out the 4 minute chapter.

Unfortunately, most Americans are not willing or even considering lowering their quality of life for any reason or for anybody. ”  They are if a barrel of oil starts reaching triple digit prices like it did in 2008.  Shoot, the government had to mail checks to try and force American’s to chase their former quality of life. 

If riding a bike isn’t practical, why not take public transportation?  Practical solutions for cutting back range from using public transporation to carpooling to growing a garden to cut back on the oil dependent process of getting foods from the farm to your grocery store.  Of the 44 gallons that make a barrel of crude oil about 42% is used for gasoline and 23% for diesel (source: US Energy Information Administration).  65% is dedicated to transportation. 

Cutting back on our oil use is very pratical.

  • Tue, Jun 22, 2010 - 12:22am

    #250
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

[quote=The Evolutionary Ape]

[quote=roamingpoke]

[quote=The Evolutionary Ape]

Right the government failed to properly drill in the Gulf.  Poor BP. 

How bout this, individuals find ways to limit their use of oil and oil related and produced products as much as possible so that deep sea drilling is minimal.  It’s inevitable, but we can at least try to slow it down by  weaning our oil addiciton.

All this blaming accomplishes nothing and is divisive.  We have a serious environmental catastrophe and  Fox wants to rile people up rather than offer solutions every individual can implement immediately.   This reminds me of why I got rid of my TV or as I like to call it the Propaganda Machine.

[/quote]

You know, you make a pretty good point.  My question is, “How do you stop the consumption of fossil fuels that are in everything from gasoline to lipstick?”

Unfortunately, most Americans are not willing or even considering lowering their quality of life for any reason or for anybody.  I am not quite ready to start riding a bicycle to work.  It would do wonders for me, but is not practical.  The point is, that the higher the per capita consumption of energy (all energy) also translates into the strongest economic output.  That puts the United States right at the top of the consumption chain and pretty high on the QOL charts as well.  Simply put, we are addicted to oil and to prosperity.

My intention is not to single you out but to draw attention to a problem that is not going to go away any time soon.  I am just trying to draw some clarity between just wishing for something and practical solutions.  I cannot find any.  Please note the blog enclosed by Robert Bryce of the Energy Tribune; these are the real facts that we are dealing with.  And please pay particular attention to the pie-chart.  There is not even a sliver for the vaunted wind/solar energy because it is so small on the world’s energy usage list that it would not show on the chart. 

At the end of the day, this is a very serious problem with no practical solutions!

http://www.energytribune.com/articles.cfm/4174/A-Short-Lesson-In-Scale-and-Global-Power-Demand

 

 

 

[/quote]

Like Deggleton stated, the decline of oil supply is going happen sooner or later regardless of what humans are used to as a way of life. 

I really challenge your views though.  What makes you think continual strong economic output is a good thing, especially given the declining supply of natural resources like fresh water, fertile soil, copper, timber, and oil? 

You stated, we are high on the Quality of Life charts.  By whose standards? Is America really addicted to prosperity? Is three I-Pods, a flat screen TV, three car garage house, $150k of credit card and mortgatge debt, working 40 plus hours at a job one has no passion for to pay bills and blah blah blah….is that the quality of life and prosperity you are referring to?  This prosperity addiction you speak of, does it translate to happiness?  Does it translate to strong families and communities?  Are we talking about prosperity or consumerism?  If we have such a high quality of life why does our society experience rampant depression, one of the highest divorce rate in the world, one of the world’s highest suicide rates, child criminals, rampant corporate fraud, rampant drug and alcohol addiction and blah blah blah? 

Cutting back on our oil use is very pratical.

[/quote]

Given the exponential population growth of the world, I agree that natural resources are becoming strained and soon to be scarce.  Perhaps that is why the Chinese are scavaging the world to buy the rights (with American dollar debt) to as much natural resources that they can.  It includes oil, natural gas, syn-fuels, iron, copper, and uranium.  They and India also have the world’s largest populations.  They will soon replace the US as the world’s largest economy and then push for the yuan to be the world’s reserve currency.  Though recently the Chinese took the yuan off the dollar peg.

Not all growth is bad.  Oil fuels the growth of the entire world economy and even now it is still the cheapest input.  More efficient and responsible use of oil is more the goal I am seeking.  The slower transition is much more practical.  However, if you read the Energy tribune blog, America is addicted to oil and prosperity.  Solar and Wind cannot power our economy, nuclear, though efficient, is off limits because of the environmentalists. Natural gas, though clean, is still drilled and highly regulated.  Western lands are off limits to NG growth because the government has expropriated the property and made it off limits.  I’m looking for real solutions.

The welfare state will degrade into anarchy and chaos because the tax base based on oil and oil products will be devestated.  Eventually, “law of the jungle” and “survival of the fittest” will ensue.  Note discussion on “Collapsenet going viral”.  We will refer to your scenario as the “good ole days”, I fear.

I am not going to be the judge of societies ills or happiness.  I have no explanation. I decided to take the road less traveled years ago and provided for my own.  It has worked well for me, at least until the government decides to devalue the dollar one day. 

However, the Q.O.L. I was alluding to was food production for a growing population, jobs fostered by growth, research in universities from foundations that grow from private profits, government grants from a disappearing tax base, etc?  I guess what I really am referring to is creating value that will necessarily lead to sustained growth and economies of scale.  A cheap source of energy is the only thing that can sustain this.

Your personal views are fine and I hope that you continue to work for them.  For me, I see no sustainable solution for at least a generation. 

Finally, the lower QOL and a world without cheap energy will necessarily breed hard tyranny.  Governments will have to control the masses because it will have no choice.  The survival of the proletariet will depend on it. What we have to do now is to find a path to new energy technologies that have a positive net energy equation and the encumbent freedom to do so.  That will require massive private investment and government subsidies.

It can be done, but it will absolutely require co-operation at the speed of trust between capitalists, government, private industry, research universities, etc.  That may be the hardest thing of all to do.  The Chinese have already figured it out!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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