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Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

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  • Sun, May 30, 2010 - 06:49pm

    #130
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

I have been watching this unfold and have come to the sad conclusion that they are not so much trying to stop the leaks as to SAVE THE FRICKEN WELL!  We have the military technology to blow the well, but that would destroy it and the ability to pump 1 to 2 percent of the current US daily oil consumption of 20 million barrels a day (assuming this 50k leak could be pumped at 200k barrels a day)

Yes blowing it could cause a chronic leak, but it would be considerably less than the 10s of thousands of (50k probably) of oil billowing into the Gulf at this time. This leak would be lower pressure and could be capped by a concrete dome.  I think BP is telling Obama what to do — not vice versa, and they don’t want him to mess up their little cash cow.  Economically they could pay out 50 Billion in damages and still MAKE MONEY on this well.(using my handy-dandy little iPhone calculator 200k barrels times 70 dollars a barrel(conservative) times 365 days/yr times 10 years is 50Billion. the lifespan of this well would be well over 10 yrs.)

I think it is a simple profit/loss calculation by BP and they DON’T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT.  I would go so far as to say we need to NATIONALIZE all of BP’s north american assetts to cover environmental losses.  You guys know I”m not a communist, but we have to ELIMINATE THEIR PROFIT MOTIVE in order to END THIS CRISIS.

 

RANT OFF.

  • Sun, May 30, 2010 - 08:14pm

    #132
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

Not to any poster specifically but…..

How many of you have put a tank of gas in your vehicle since 4/20?  I have.

If this accident had not occurred, none of this pontificating would be happening. 

Righteous indignation rings a little hollow don’t you think?

  • Sun, May 30, 2010 - 08:23pm

    #133
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

[quote=bearmarkettrader]

Will society tolerate higher energy costs at the expense of saving our environment? Will the government implement stricter regulations in the pursuit of deepwater oil? Lets hope so. Time will tell at this point.

As a lawyer:

Negligence: a failure to realize the risk which a reasonable person can see

Recklessness: A conscious DISREGARD of the risk.

What BP did was RECKLESS. They consciously disregarded the risk of using a busted blowout preventer.

[/quote]

Time has already told… the answer to those questions is a big fat NO.

In that sense, we have all been reckless by consciously disregarding the substantial (almost certain) risk of environmental destruction created by our lifestyles. What we’re left with is a bunch of criminally negligent people pointing their fingers (or guns) at each other while the world burns.

  • Sun, May 30, 2010 - 08:56pm

    #134
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

There are lots of things about this calamity that puzzle me…..  When the deep water oil field called Jack was discovered in the GOM three or so years ago, it was record breaking oil drilling, Matt Simmonds stating at the time that ‘they’ were lucky to have gotten away with drilling that deep without breaking anything, and that drilling at such dephs would require brand new technology…..  or words to that effect.

Now, was brand new technology used here?  Was it tested?  And if not, is it the reason they are showing to be incapable of fixing this…?  Can it even be done?  At what price?

I have distinct recollections of people in the know saying drilling like this was unviable unless oil was well over $100 a barrel, and we all know what happens to the economy when that occurs.  This spill could very well be another nail in the capitalist coffin…

Mike

  • Sun, May 30, 2010 - 08:59pm

    #135
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

[quote=Dogs_In_A_Pile]

Not to any poster specifically but…..

How many of you have put a tank of gas in your vehicle since 4/20?  I have.

If this accident had not occurred, none of this pontificating would be happening. 

Righteous indignation rings a little hollow don’t you think?

[/quote]

Dogs,

For me personally, the indignation is about the seemingly willful negligence of BP before the accident and the deceit that has followed.

It seems as though this was a preventible accident and the protocols in place were not followed.  After the accident, it appears to me that BP is more concerned with financial damage control than mitigating the ecological disaster.  Owning up to one’s mistakes and paying the price for those does not seem to on the agenda for some large corporations these days.

I might compare it to a loved one having a risky operation.  The risks involved are known and accepted as possible outcomes.  However, if the surgeon cuts corners by not following a standard of care and disaster ensues I believe that is a much different scenario than if all was done in a responsible manner and the outcome is unfavorable.

  • Sun, May 30, 2010 - 09:24pm

    #136
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

US oil nightmare could drag on to August

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/31/2913347.htm?section=justin

By North America correspondent Lisa Millar

Updated 1 hour 5 minutes ago

A senior White House adviser says the blown-out wellhead at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico could continue to spew oil into the ocean until August.

Carol Browner, the president’s adviser on energy and climate, says the oil spill is the country’s biggest environmental disaster.

BP’s latest attempt to stem the leak, the so-called “top kill”, failed over the weekend and the company is now working on another approach involving underwater robots and containment domes.

But Ms Browner says there are growing fears nothing will work in the short-term.

“There could be oil coming up until August when the relief wells are dug,” she said.

“This is probably the biggest environmental disaster we have ever faced in this country. It is certainly the biggest oil spill and we are responding with the biggest environmental response.

“It means more oil is leaking into the Gulf of Mexico than at any other time in our history. It means there is more oil than the Exxon Valdez.”

At least 20 million gallons of oil are now estimated to have leaked into the ocean since the rig exploded on April 20.

BP had tried forcing in a mixture of mud and cement, known as a “top kill”, but it did not seal the well.

Executive Bob Dudley says the energy giant is going back to a previous plan – the containment dome – hoping they fixed what went wrong with that the first time.

“The engineering on this is more simple than the top kill. What we need to do is go down with the robots, diamond cut saws, [and] slice off the top of that riser with a clean surface,” he said.

“The flow rate shouldn’t be that much higher. And then [we can] drop this containment over it. It will be a four to seven-day operation.

“I think the probability of it working is much different than the top kill.”

BP is facing even more criticism with new allegations that internal company files showed BP had serious concerns about the Deepwater rig weeks before the accident.

  • Sun, May 30, 2010 - 09:30pm

    #137
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

Perhaps a more pertinent question would be how many of us have stock in Oil companies in portfolios.

V

  • Sun, May 30, 2010 - 10:43pm

    #138
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

MarkyM did a good job of explaining the righteous indignation of many of us. The idea that simply because we may use gas-powered vehicles, therefore have no right or reason to be angry at the unfolding catastrophy, sideskirts the deeper issues behind the anger. We have a so-called freely elected government (financed and bought off by the deep pockets of corporations) which has been rendered useless to the common public good due to regulatory capture, a hackneyed phrase by now. It’s what has helped create the corporatocracy, and this monster is literally devouring the world. Unfettered predatory capitalism and commodification of everything are the hallmarks of this coporatocracy. We saw the results of it with the subprime mess and the destruction of the middle class. We see it in the enlistment  of our disenfranchised youth used as mortar fodder in the Middle East by the industrial military complex, and now we are seeing it in the Gulf by Big Oil.

  • Mon, May 31, 2010 - 12:13am

    #139
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

xray and Mark –

Thanks for the civil response.  It would certainly appear that BP took some risks that we are all paying for now and they certainly seem to have been less than forthright afterwards.  But why?  It seems to me that right now there are a helluva lot more questions than answers – questions that in time MUST be answered – but until a thorough investigation is completed we just won’t know.  Mark raises a good point about risk assessment – at what point did BP’s trip wire get hit, when was the risk too high for the potential profits?  Evidently, that line was crossed, but was it through malevolent intent and greed or was it just poor risk management?

BP was unlucky enough to fook things up first.  How many other companies were drilling with similar BOPs, Transocean rigs, etc, etc?

I would bet that there is at least one (if not more) company out there who is breathing a sigh of relief that BP took the face shot.  They stepped back and looked at what they were doing and said “Holy shit, that could have been us.”  I seriously doubt they are doing business the same way right now.

At this point I don’t think there is much of a silver lining for BP, but let’s wait for the investigation to be complete before we villify every single employee of BP – or any other oil company for that matter.  My concern with the investigation though is the ass hats in our administration will almost certainly politicize the investigation for downstream political capital.  Both sides are already doing it now.  Seems like we should be focusing on stopping the leak and cleaning up the mess – if we even can – before the idiots in DC start grandstanding.

xray – I think that BP taking (apparent) shortcuts with more of an eye on the bottom line than appropriate risk management is the seedy underbelly of the corporotacratic beast you describe, but I think that’s just the way it is.  Not necessarily evil intent, but simply how the system has (de)evolved.  As far as connecting it to our elected officials – we all bear some responsibility for allowing that to happen.  If we think they are serving the wrong masters, then it is up to us to rein them in.  The Declaration of Independence clearly states that it is our duty to do so.

“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness…….

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

Seems pretty clear to me who has responsibility for cleaning up that mess.

All that said, if I had to throw my hat, it would land pretty close to Mark’s. 

Either way, I appreciate the polite debate.

  • Mon, May 31, 2010 - 12:26am

    #140
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    Re: Gulf Oil Spill Reaches Land

[quote=V]

Perhaps a more pertinent question would be how many of us have stock in Oil companies in portfolios.

[/quote]

As a carpenter, are you to blame for the housing bust? You must have certainly profited from the housing boom….are you too guilty of supporting the system that you so despise? I would never accuse you of that, but I can’t help but feel that we are all to blame.

When I first learned of this oil spill, I began to feel very guilty driving my car for the very reason that Dogs pointed out. Though I’m not invested in any oil companies, I realize that my lifestyle is enabling the corporations to do what they do. I fund their evil-doing with my regular purchase of gasoline and myraid other oil-based products.

At the beach yesterday I was holding my daughter in the surf, and a group of dolphins swam within 10 feet of us. My daughter was ecstatic, and all I could do was think, sorry baby, us adults just killed those beautiful creatures and you will probably never see them here again in your lifetime. My heart just sank.

Anger is a fool’s game. We are all guilty, and we are all innocent. The sooner we come to that realization, the sooner we can get to work at creating a world worth inheriting

I just hope there are dolphins in that world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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