Gold/Silver Sell off today

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  • Sat, Sep 24, 2011 - 10:04pm

    #21

    JAG

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    Speaking of BS…

Speaking of BS…this thread is full of it.

Turd #1:

CME just hiked gold margins by 21%, silver by 16% and copper by 18%. Mystery solved. 

If the "safe-haven" investment is being traded with levarage, how safe is it really? What will it be worth when the credit markets dry up again?

Turd #2:

… 2) The drop was mostly a front-run by people insiders who knew in advance that the margin requirements were going to be raised.  I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but 2 seems very likely here.

Again, if "insider" trading determines the value of gold, how can it be considered a wealth-preservation asset?

Turd #3:

The swan dive points to central bank manipulation. It’s a preemptive strike. Be prepared for some dire economic news on Monday or Tuesday.

Good’ol central bank manipulation….the tried and true fallback for the goldbugs. But wait…I thought the MO of the central banks was currency devaluation? What is a more accepted barometer for the value of a currency than the price of gold in that currency?

But crashing the price of gold makes the currency more valuable, not less valuable. It seems to me that central banks would want to manipulate the price of gold higher, not crash it.

Turd #4:

The manipulation is such BS…

IT JUST AMAZES ME THAT CME CAN MANIPULATE THE MARKET THE WAY IT DOES!!!!  Is that true capitolism?  I guess it is.  THE RICH ONLY GET RICHER.  FORGET THE REST OF US!!!!

Emotion and investing? You might as well just give Wall Street your money now and save yourself the stress of a drawn out capitulation.

The Truth:

If you own gold and silver, Wall Street owns you. Do you really think you can outsmart them and make it through the coming storm with your wealth intact? 

"The Internet Economy is a new Paradigm" > "Housing prices never drop" > "Gold is a safe-haven" 

Anyone else see a pattern here?

Screw Wall Street, invest in yourself. Produce your own power, grow your own food, and do whatever it takes to insulate your way of life from the games of Wall Street. 

 

 

  • Sat, Sep 24, 2011 - 10:14pm

    #22
    sundarb

    sundarb

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    nice reply

[quote=JAG]

Screw Wall Street, invest in yourself. Produce your own power, grow your own food, and do whatever it takes to insulate your way of life from the games of Wall Street. 

[/quote]

Sage Advice there JAG. Strong dose of realism is what was needed 🙂

Although I’d also add that after personal resilience is built, physical gold/silver is an excellent way to navigate the fragile paper economy of today. Buying physical and not involving oneself in the paper trading games of Wall Street is also another way of insulation. 

Please consider http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/03/all-paper-is-still-short-position-on.html for a realistic picture on why gold is wealth reserve. 

May be I cannot convince you for sure, but it’s worth a shot!

  • Sun, Sep 25, 2011 - 12:22am

    #23
    bcc87

    bcc87

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    Jag: you make some very

Jag: you make some very solid points as far as being self-sufficient and self-preservation.

So are you saying, you’d rather have xxx amount of cash vs. xxx amount of PM stored away?

 

  • Sun, Sep 25, 2011 - 01:07am

    #24
    doorwarrior

    doorwarrior

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    Jag wrote:Screw Wall

Jag wrote:

Screw Wall Street, invest in yourself. Produce your own power, grow your own food, and do whatever it takes to insulate your way of life from the games of Wall Street. 

I cant tell you how much I believe in these words.  Unfortunately I have to play the game for a little bit longer. This spring  we finaly get out.

 

If the "safe-haven" investment is being traded with levarage, how safe is it really? What will it be worth when the credit markets dry up again?

Isn’t everything traded with leverage these days? How safe is anything?  Where am I supposed to put my savings while I am preparing to get out and live a sustainable lifestyle. I didn’t thnk  the credit markets were flowing all that quickly now.

… 2) The drop was mostly a front-run by people insiders who knew in advance that the margin requirements were going to be raised.  I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but 2 seems very likely here.

Again, if "insider" trading determines the value of gold, how can it be considered a wealth-preservation asset?

Insider trading always has an effect on the price of anything thats traded, thats the point. Nowhere in the original quote did it say anthing about insider trading "determining" the price of gold.  Over 3000 years of history show that gold is the premier wealth preservation instrument. Please show me any "thing" that has kept pace with goods and services as well as gold has. I don’t care what happens tomorrow or next week or next year, I know that physical gold/silver will maintain my wealth better than any other asset you can name.

Good’ol central bank manipulation….the tried and true fallback for the goldbugs. But wait…I thought the MO of the central banks was currency devaluation? What is a more accepted barometer for the value of a currency than the price of gold in that currency?

 Are you saying that the banks don’t manipulate the markets? Or do you think that they just don’t manipulate the precious metals markets?  So the value of gold vs any given currancy fluctuates on a daily basis. Again, what happens day to day has no bearing on long term performance.

 

But crashing the price of gold makes the currency more valuable, not less valuable. It seems to me that central banks would want to manipulate the price of gold higher, not crash it.

Here we go again. Volatillity is the name of the game when a very complex system start falling apart. The bankers don’t get what they want every every single day. Of course the market is manipluated, but its not controlled.

I think all of the mentioned "reasons" for the price drop are likely causes.  None of them could have caused a drop this significant by themselves. However, if they all happened together ( I am not thinking a conspiricy, just a complex system falling apart) the losses would add up real quick. I also heard Bill Haynes on KWN give another reason. In a nutshell gold/silver are just about the only "things" that have made money this year. Losses in other areas have caused margin calls and people are taking their profits in gold/silver to cover those margin calls.

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/9/24_KWN_Weekly_Metals_Wrap.html

You sound a little jaded and emotional in your post JAG. Not all of us are in the same place as you are but we are trying. Have a little patience.

Rich

  • Sun, Sep 25, 2011 - 04:32am

    #25

    JAG

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    Thanks for the feedback

Thanks for the feedback guys.

And I’ll admit that I’m jaded towards Wall Street, but please don’t assume that I’m any better off, or any further along the path to freedom than anyone else here, because I’m not.

As for fofoa and kingworld news….it’s just marketing to me. Sorry to disappoint.

Take care….Jeff

  • Sun, Sep 25, 2011 - 02:16pm

    #26

    frobn

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    sportivny wrote:Mish is

[quote=sportivny]

Mish is correct if you look at PMs as industrial commodities only, but when currency cryses are added into the mix, I think longterm ppl will go for something familiar and broken trust in dollar preserving purchasing power will drive PMs monetary recognition.[/quote]

I don’t think that Mish disagrees with the longterm trend of higher and higher PMs. His take was on the short term rout in PMs.

  • Sun, Sep 25, 2011 - 04:03pm

    #27
    mryuri

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    PM’s down.

 @agitating prop. I am suspicious too. As Volker recently said about previous $ devaluation, "we should have taken down pm prices first" (or something very similr)

  • Sun, Sep 25, 2011 - 04:17pm

    #28
    mryuri

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    Silver up over $40 in 2-3 months?

Anyone concerned about silver prices maight want to view this. I saw it a while back, unfortuantely I did not heed the warning. But, I am now buying more.

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/cris-sheridan/2011/09/23/amazing-silver-follows-historical-pattern-to-a-t

  • Sun, Sep 25, 2011 - 04:47pm

    #29

    Travlin

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    Damning quotes

[quote=mryuri]

I am suspicious too. As Volker recently said about previous $ devaluation, "we should have taken down pm prices first" (or something very similr)

[/quote]

This looks like the quote you were referring to. Pretty damning statements. http://forums.wallstreetexaminer.com/topic/756499-volker-on-controlling-gold-price/

Travlin 

  • Sun, Sep 25, 2011 - 08:37pm

    #30
    sundarb

    sundarb

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    disappointing

[quote=JAG]

As for fofoa and kingworld news….it’s just marketing to me. Sorry to disappoint.

[/quote]

JAG,

Your intelligent arguments against gold make us think twice and I’m very thankful for that. At the same time, stating FOFOA is just marketing makes no sense to me. Without critiquing the content of FOFOA’s writing, brushing it off seems unfair. It’s fine if you don’t have the time to read it (FOFOA’s articles are very long) but having read a few of the blog’s articles, I think he makes the most intelligent argument towards hyperinflation. Gonzalo, Jim Willie etc. don’t even come close. Which is why I’m asking you to consider it.

Hyperinflation is really a misnomer, because severe deflation is what really happens and saving debt at all costs leads to hyperinflation. In fact, his hyperinflation analysis acknowledges all that the deflationists say – its just a different end game as he sees it.

Here’s the quote by Paul Volcker:

"That day the U.S. announced that the dollar would be devalued by 10 percent. By switching the yen to a floating exchange rate, the Japanese currency appreciated, and a sufficient realignment in exchange rates was realized. Joint intervention in gold sales to prevent a steep rise in the price of gold, however, was not undertaken. That was a mistake."

Paul Volcker, Nikkei Weekly 2004

Hope you take time to digest a few facts presented here 🙂

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