Global Climate Change: is it worth brushing off?

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  • Wed, Feb 01, 2012 - 02:23pm

    #981
    Doug

    Doug

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    What?

Why be aware of what’s happening with climate change?  Are you serious?  Why do we come to this site at all?  To try to be aware of the economic, energy and environmental effects of our way of life, and to prepare for the consequences.  Everything Chris talks about is controversial with strongly held opinions on all sides of most issues.  He spends his life trying to raise awareness of the economic and energy issues we face, often opposed by the same forces that try to obscure awareness of climate change.

I’m not going to go into yet another defense of the science of climate change, but to try to squelch interest because Chris chooses to ignore it is head-in-the sand foolishness.  The real world effects are all around us and becoming more obvious than, say, peak oil.  And the potential consequences are arguably more serious than our economic or energy plights.

I think the whole point of this site is awareness of the world around us.  Simply ignoring one of largest phenomena affecting us is, to my way of thinking, unthinkable.  I have tolerated that huge gap in this forum because the rest of the material is helpful in shaping my own thinking and preparing.  But, that doesn’t mean I put blinders on to certain subjects.  I don’t think any of us should.

Doug

  • Wed, Feb 01, 2012 - 06:41pm

    #982

    Poet

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    Picking Your Battles

I think it’s about picking your battles. I think Chris has focused on what battles he’s fighting, to get the most punch with the most compelling arguments on the most pressing issues.

It’s possible to galvanize both camps (those who deny man-made climate change and those who agree on it) to agree on peak oil, peak resources, the financial debt and deflation/inflation situation etc. – i.e. the 3Es. It isn’t so possible to get the climate change denialists on board. That’s why we have this thread and that’s why this thread is in the “Controversial Topics” area. Even if in Europe and other parts of the world, including at Royal Dutch Shell, man-made climate change is a given.

Poet

Doug wrote:

Why be aware of what’s happening with climate change?  Are you serious?  Why do we come to this site at all?  To try to be aware of the economic, energy and environmental effects of our way of life, and to prepare for the consequences.  Everything Chris talks about is controversial with strongly held opinions on all sides of most issues.  He spends his life trying to raise awareness of the economic and energy issues we face, often opposed by the same forces that try to obscure awareness of climate change.

I’m not going to go into yet another defense of the science of climate change, but to try to squelch interest because Chris chooses to ignore it is head-in-the sand foolishness.  The real world effects are all around us and becoming more obvious than, say, peak oil.  And the potential consequences are arguably more serious than our economic or energy plights.

I think the whole point of this site is awareness of the world around us.  Simply ignoring one of largest phenomena affecting us is, to my way of thinking, unthinkable.  I have tolerated that huge gap in this forum because the rest of the material is helpful in shaping my own thinking and preparing.  But, that doesn’t mean I put blinders on to certain subjects.  I don’t think any of us should.

Doug

  • Wed, Feb 01, 2012 - 06:48pm

    #983
    Doug

    Doug

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    Poet wrote:I think it’s

Poet wrote:

I think it’s about picking your battles. I think Chris has focused on what battles he’s fighting, to get the most punch with the most compelling arguments on the most pressing issues.

It’s possible to galvanize both camps (those who deny man-made climate change and those who agree on it) to agree on peak oil, peak resources, the financial debt and deflation/inflation situation etc. – i.e. the 3Es. It isn’t so possible to get the climate change denialists on board. That’s why we have this thread and that’s why this thread is in the “Controversial Topics” area. Even if in Europe and other parts of the world, including at Royal Dutch Shell, man-made climate change is a given.

Poet

Doug wrote:

Why be aware of what’s happening with climate change?  Are you serious?  Why do we come to this site at all?  To try to be aware of the economic, energy and environmental effects of our way of life, and to prepare for the consequences.  Everything Chris talks about is controversial with strongly held opinions on all sides of most issues.  He spends his life trying to raise awareness of the economic and energy issues we face, often opposed by the same forces that try to obscure awareness of climate change.

I’m not going to go into yet another defense of the science of climate change, but to try to squelch interest because Chris chooses to ignore it is head-in-the sand foolishness.  The real world effects are all around us and becoming more obvious than, say, peak oil.  And the potential consequences are arguably more serious than our economic or energy plights.

I think the whole point of this site is awareness of the world around us.  Simply ignoring one of largest phenomena affecting us is, to my way of thinking, unthinkable.  I have tolerated that huge gap in this forum because the rest of the material is helpful in shaping my own thinking and preparing.  But, that doesn’t mean I put blinders on to certain subjects.  I don’t think any of us should.

Doug

I’m particularly sensitive to the continued denial of climate change and wonder why it is treated differently than other equally controversial topics, particulary when it is so intertwined with fossil fuel use.  BTW, this thread is not in the CT forum, it is in Chap. 18 of the CC.

Doug

  • Wed, Feb 01, 2012 - 07:04pm

    #984
    Doug

    Doug

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    More confirmation

 

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/hansen_16/

Quote:

Earth’s Energy Imbalance

Deployment of an international array of Argo floats, measuring ocean heat content to a depth of 2000 m, was completed during the past decade, allowing the best assessment so far of Earth’s energy imbalance. The observed planetary energy gain during the recent strong solar minimum reveals that the solar forcing of climate, although significant, is overwhelmed by a much larger net human-made climate forcing. The measured imbalance confirms that, if other climate forcings are fixed, atmospheric CO2 must be reduced to about 350 ppm or less to stop global warming. In our recently published paper (Hansen et al., 2011), we also show that climate forcing by human-made aerosols (fine particles in the air) is larger than usually assumed, implying an urgent need for accurate global aerosol measurements to help interpret continuing climate change.

  • Wed, Feb 01, 2012 - 08:52pm

    #985

    Stan Robertson

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    Doug

Doug wrote:

 

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/hansen_16/

Quote:

Earth’s Energy Imbalance

Deployment of an international array of Argo floats, measuring ocean heat content to a depth of 2000 m, was completed during the past decade, allowing the best assessment so far of Earth’s energy imbalance. The observed planetary energy gain during the recent strong solar minimum reveals that the solar forcing of climate, although significant, is overwhelmed by a much larger net human-made climate forcing. The measured imbalance confirms that, if other climate forcings are fixed, atmospheric CO2 must be reduced to about 350 ppm or less to stop global warming. In our recently published paper (Hansen et al., 2011), we also show that climate forcing by human-made aerosols (fine particles in the air) is larger than usually assumed, implying an urgent need for accurate global aerosol measurements to help interpret continuing climate change.

Hansen is a well known alarmist. His climate model prediction of earth mean temperature in his 1990 testimony before congress was badly wrong. It misses the present mean temperature by more than the earth warmed in the previous two hundred years. Now that the earth has not measurably warmed for a decade, he is just certain that some heat must have hidden in the ocean instead of raising the atmosphere temperature. In his present work he claims that the earth has taken in solar energy that was not radiated back out. One cannot determine this from the Argo buoys alone. One has to measure the outgoing flux. There is just no way that the measurements are accurate to the required three digit accuracy.

  • Wed, Feb 01, 2012 - 08:53pm

    #986

    Ready

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    Doug wrote:Why be aware of

Doug wrote:

Why be aware of what’s happening with climate change?  Are you serious?  Why do we come to this site at all? 

 

Is this perhaps an overreaction to Aaron’s comment? Read it again. He is not saying to not be aware of AGW, he is asking the poster to make up his own mind, why does he need to hear it from CM and all.

 

 

  • Wed, Feb 01, 2012 - 10:52pm

    #987

    Damnthematrix

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    stop wasting your time…

Doug wrote:

I’m particularly sensitive to the continued denial of climate change and wonder why it is treated differently than other equally controversial topics, particulary when it is so intertwined with fossil fuel use.  BTW, this thread is not in the CT forum, it is in Chap. 18 of the CC.

Doug

Doug, as you know, I’m with you on this.  I also suspect that an intelligent man like Chris well understands the Climate Science, but he’s decided it’s too controversial to go battling on the issue.  Is it right?  Is it wrong? I don’t care anymore, I just mark time waiting for WTSWHTF, when everything will be fixed by a collapsing population.  After all, we all die……  don’t we?  At least I’ll check out with a clear conscience as will Chris no doubt….

Just judging by Ready’s response to your latest justifications, it’s a waste of time.  You may as well attempt to change religious/atheists’ minds on the existence of god… it’ll never happen.

The irony, IMHO, is that the “solutions” to collapse are the same as those for “solutions” to Climate Change…..

Me, I’m making serious plans to move from 26 degrees S to 42 degrees S to escape what is becoming very obvious:  the weather is screwed here.

Mike

  • Wed, Feb 01, 2012 - 11:24pm

    #988

    Aaron M

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    Climate Science

Mike,

I think you’re misreading – Ready is just saying that Chris’s opinion isn’t something that anyone “needs” in order to make an educated determination on what’s going on with the climate and environment.

FWIW, I’m not a denialist, I think the gradual changes are being exacerbated, and there’s really no debating that when you bloom from < 2B people to ~8B people, most of whom create some manner of carbon and oxides through various avenues, that those trapped carbons will build up.

There are major flaws in the Climate models, with serious skewing towards a high bias, and there are high biases in reporting the data (which feeds into the models) so, I’m skeptical to conclude that runaway global warming is the ultimate trend. I still favor cooling cycles, for reasons I’ve beat to death here.

So the degree of which Global Warming will impact the climate is moot. We don’t know.
This science is infantile. Imagine people postulating the future of Agriculture 400 years into the agricultural revolution.

Things have been strange, and will continue to be strange.
But they’ve been strange before, and it’s important to keep that in mind.

Cheers,

Aaron

  • Thu, Feb 02, 2012 - 12:29am

    #989

    JAG

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    Captain Sheeple Rant!

Doug wrote:

I’m particularly sensitive to the continued denial of climate change and wonder why it is treated differently than other equally controversial topics, particulary when it is so intertwined with fossil fuel use.  

Hi Doug,

I’ll tell you why I don’t discuss climate change; like nearly everything else these days, it’s all about politics. How can a discussion have any measure of objectivity when everyone involved can’t see through the cloud of their own self-image? 

Conservative, Liberal, Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Tea Partier, Occupier, Christian, Muslim…It’s all complete and utter bullshit. And if that statement pisses some of you off, please think about why that is. Did it threaten some self-fabricated image of yourself that you cling to in your mind?

C’mon people, do you really want to limit your identity to an idealogy? Drop the baggage that is “you” and open your eyes:

Politics is for zombies…

And speaking of climate change, I’ve got a great crop of tomatoes in freaking January! Where did old man winter go? Summer is going to be complete Hell.

Best…Jeff

 

  • Thu, Feb 02, 2012 - 01:21am

    #990

    Ready

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    Oh, mike… tsk tsk tsk

Damnthematrix wrote:

Just judging by Ready’s response to your latest justifications, it’s a waste of time.  You may as well attempt to change religious/atheists’ minds on the existence of god… it’ll never happen.

OK, that’s 2 today that can’t read or understand what is written, but come out swinging anyhow. Mike I understand and expect, he’s proven his inability to see outside of his narrow world view countless times. Doug however I think simply mis-understood what Aaron was saying, and I simply tried to clear it up so there was not continued argument about something that didn’t happen. But you are right to bring up the fact that certian folks are attached to this like religion Mike… look in the mirror. Please tell me again where I stand on this issue? I challenge you to show me where I have posted what I believe, so who is wasting what time on me again? Man, you are waaaaaaaaay off on this one. Don’t worry though, I won’t wait up tonight hoping for an apology!

JAG, I’m with you. I nearly always steer clear of this “debate” and I suppose I should have this time as well. Easy to see why CM steers clear too, no? Well, I for one won’t make the mistake again! If you even post on this thread and don’t support AGW, even if you don’t deny it or take ANY stance, still it is off with your head. Whatever. But I will talk about tomatoes in January! Here’s to hoping this year’s crop makes up for the poor excuse we called 2011!

 

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