Investing in precious metals 101

Global Climate Change: is it worth brushing off?

Login or register to post comments Last Post 258070 reads   2 posts
  • Wed, Oct 01, 2008 - 03:46pm

    #1
    affert

    affert

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2008

    Posts: 25

    count placeholder

    Global Climate Change: is it worth brushing off?

I would like to challenge the claim that there is very little consensus about Global Climate Change. 

A very complete, thoughtful look at the issue is available from the "How It All Ends" video series  (available on youtube). The series was put together after the author had his first video attacked by many climate change doubters.  The series covers every argument against climate change I'd ever heard before, and many that I'd not heard.  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF_anaVcCXg is the initial video).  The whole series is over 6 hours long, but is organized for people with certain types of objections can watch certain videos to hear their objections answered.  http://www.manpollo.org/education/objections/objections.html is a link that points individual objections to peices of the video series that address specific objections.I would recommend watching the first movie, then (if you don't think you have time to watch the whole thing) jump to those objections you have heard.

 

Please, Chris (and others) take a look at the evidence presented there.  We can't allow selfish or irrational people to distort or side-track the discussion about global climate change.This issue is essential.

  • Wed, Oct 01, 2008 - 04:05pm

    #2
    Solgundy

    Solgundy

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 01 2008

    Posts: 1

    count placeholder

    Global Cooling…?

NASA Science News for September 30, 2008
Astronomers who count sunspots have announced that 2008 has become the “blankest year” of the Space Age. Sunspot counts are at a 50-year low, signifying a deep minimum in the 11-year cycle of solar activity.

FULL STORY at

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/30sep_blankyear.htm?list986485

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
SDF Number 274 Issued at 2200Z on 30 Sep 2008

Analysis of Solar Active Regions and Activity from 29/2100Z to 30/2100Z: Solar activity was at very low levels.

Solar Activity Forecast: Solar activity is expected to remain at very low levels.

updated daily:

http://www.solarcycle24.com/

————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

Global warming hype could be masking a more immediate climate problem. A problem that
could have a larger impact on our lives than global warming over the next 20 years. Solar scientists
have predicted the return of the Dalton Minimum, which was the result of two low intensity
sunspot cycles lasting over 28 years. During the early 1800s the average temperatures in the Mid
West were 2-4 degrees cooler than the 20th Century average. In many areas it was much dryer
than average, especially along the California coast. We have already started to see some ocean
cooling as we leave sunspot cycle 23 and enter sunspot cycle 24, the first of the two predicted
minimum cycles.

http://sesfoundation.org/dalton_minimum.pdf

—————————————————————————————————————————————————————

1400-1520 ? cold (Sporer minimum)
1520-1640 107 warm
1640-1700 61 cold (Maunder minimum)
1700-1805 114 warm
1805-1925 95 cold (Dalton minimum)
1925-2010 138 warm
2010-2110 ? cold?

200 yr sun spot cycle

http://www.kolumbus.fi/tilmari/some200.htm

——————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Peak Oil??………..then this…..omg

  • Thu, Oct 02, 2008 - 03:40am

    #3
    its only money

    its only money

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 24 2008

    Posts: 1

    count placeholder

    less spots on the sun

gees solgundy,i’m getting a mite stressed here,for starters the economy appears to be slowing and on a personel level my shares in lehman aren’t doing well,there’s a war going on somewhere and thats not good and those pesky terrorists are still up to miscief.double gees,don’t you read the newspapers.less spots on the sun,dear o me,the sun is a long way away and can’t possibly affect you or me so shrug it off .sorry to be so harsh on you man but don’t distract us,the serious thinkers,from the main game.the news on the economy is not looking good,i’d even say its a long way from good,worry about that instead.on a brighter note when peak oil gets here and production reaches a zenith there’ll be so much and so cheap that the increased carbon emissions will offset your concerns about global cooling.hope this helps.

  • Thu, Oct 02, 2008 - 07:30pm

    #4
    affert

    affert

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2008

    Posts: 25

    count placeholder

    “”There is also the matter

""There
is also the matter of solar irradiance," adds Pesnell.
"Researchers are now seeing the dimmest sun in their
records. The change is small, just a fraction of a percent,
but significant. Questions about effects on climate are natural
if the sun continues to dim." ~
Quote from first article.  

I don’t claim to know a lot about sun spots, but if this is true (that global temperatures are being pushed down by low levels of solar activity) that is disturbing.  Here’s why: a number of effects mask the upward pressure that CO2 is putting on global temperatures.  Solar dimming is one (which is air pollution reflecting some of the sun’s energy back into space).   If the solar dimming effect is further helped by a low in sunspot activity, that means the effect of greenhouse gases are even larger than we’ve already measured.  

So if a lull in solar activity is happening right now, it will keep temperatures lower now than they would be (good in the short run), but once the sun returns to a normal level of activity, the temperature will jump up.   

  • Sun, Nov 30, 2008 - 02:28pm

    #5

    stocks321

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 13 2008

    Posts: 20

    count placeholder

    Re: Global Climate Change: is it worth brushing off?

As a researchphysicist who has spent the past 30 years of my career in atmospheric
science, I am surprised that government agencies, politicians, and much
of the public have been manipulated by a political agenda with no
scientific basis, which is the best way to describe the "non-link"
between CO2 and global warming. There is virtually NO physical science
to support any role of man’s generation of Carbon Dioxide (CO2) in
climate change. All of this pseudo-science is driven by poorly
conceived computer modeling and represents a political agenda that uses
science and the public as pawns.

Carbon Dioxide is critical for
plant life and therefore to animal life and to regulate it as a
pollutant is a total misunderstanding of its role in life and the role
that man plays in the environment. Rather than restating all of the
scientific arguments I suggest that you contact Senator James Inhofe’s
EPW Committee staff member, Marc Morano, who has done an excellent job
of collecting an overwhelming amount of peer-reviewed science (see:
here) that clearly demonstrates that there is no basis for the EPA to
regulate Carbon Dioxide.

Since Carbon Dioxide is such a minor
greenhouse gas compared to water vapor it would make much more
scientific sense for the EPA to regulate HUMIDITY! To regulate Carbon
Dioxide empowers the creation of a carbon trading scheme that is, in
essence, the trading of hot air. In fact, carbon trading makes even
less sense than the trading of derivatives by Fannie Mae and Freddie
Mac.

As global temperatures continue to drop I would think that
the last thing that the EPA would want to do is to be responsible for
another trillion dollar economic disaster. From my perspective, there
appear to be many more top scientists who do NOT believe in AGW and CO2
as a critical element in climate change and see that the SUN is the
active determinant for climate.

Comments
sent to EPA by research physicist John W. Brosnahan of Vanderpool,
Texas, who develops remote-sensing instruments for atmospheric science
for such clients as NOAA and NASA and who has published much
peer-reviewed research. Brosnahan has given permission for public
release of his statement

New Peer-Reviewed Scientific Studies Chill Global Warming Fears

Washington DC – An abundance of new peer-reviewed studies, analyses, and data error discoveries
in the last several months has prompted scientists to declare that fear
of catastrophic man-made global warming “bites the dust” and the
scientific underpinnings for alarm may be “falling apart.”
The
latest study to cast doubt on climate fears finds that even a doubling
of atmospheric carbon dioxide would not have the previously predicted
dire impacts on global temperatures. This new study is not unique, as a
host of recent peer-reviewed studies have cast a chill on global
warming fears.

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fus…3a-b35d0842fed8

  • Sun, Nov 30, 2008 - 03:01pm

    #6

    RubberRims

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 22 2008

    Posts: 93

    count placeholder

    Re: Global Climate Change: is it worth brushing off?

 

stocks321 where have you been hiding? God I thought I was alone trying to tell people about the truth.

Keep your presence on this site, we are going to need your direct knowledge in order to dispel the Global Worming mith witch has been sold to people like a cheap suit. If it fits wear it.

Thanks nice thread

  • Thu, Dec 04, 2008 - 11:32am

    #7

    stocks321

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jul 13 2008

    Posts: 20

    count placeholder

    Re: Global Climate Change: is it worth brushing off?

Solar science forum poll — Is global cooling on the way?

Yes — 76 votes
No — 7 votes

We
can thus almost be sure that the cycle 23 has ended, but despite the
fact that the cycle 24 has clearly started, the rise has been so slow,
that we can be pretty sure that the cycle will be very low, which in
the past always has meant a colder climate.

http://solarcycle24com.proboards106.com/in…ad=7&page=3

Very cool solar science website:

http://www.solarcycle24.com/

  • Wed, Dec 10, 2008 - 09:02pm

    #8

    AlanPage

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 05 2008

    Posts: 9

    count placeholder

    Re: Global Climate Change: is it worth brushing off?

We have an interesting collection of view points here!

Little will be accomplished by trying to debate the source of problems on this site where we have limited access to factual material except through the links that we add ourselves. I would like to see a portion of the site to be at least a list of links to important technical material that relates to each chapter of the CC.

Since Chris started by basing the CC on his beliefs, I am going to add a few here

1) Whether CO2 is antropomorphic or not its atmospheric concentration is out of control as evidenced by the exponential curve of CO2 concentration measured by Charles Keeling and others.

2) Whether CO2 is antropomorphic or not its oceanic concentration is beyond the marine buffer capacity to hold the pH of seawater at a constant level. Researchers are documenting an order of magnitude change in pH with devastating results to coral, shell fish, and marine microorganisms.

3) Arctic research (recently severly cut back by our administration) has reported rapidly increasing Arctic sea ice melting to the extent that the Arctic Ocean may be free of ice with in less than ten years.

4) The same research vessels are witnessing high (100x normal) methane concentrations along the continental shelf area and inland over permafrost that is now melting. Infrastructure in northern regions is collapsing where the permafrost is melting.

5) In past climate change situations CO3 was not a driver but the result of other change vectors. Today we are adding forcing agents to the system that may show up eventually in surprising ways.

These major tipping point situations may already be placing unrecognized forcing in the pipeline as affert noted.

I suggest that these situations are worthy of our consideration in light of the many other "J" or "reverse J" shaped exponential factors that are going to influence our ability to support the variety of life that brought us to this point. We have no right to purposefully destroy the oceans as a place for corals and clams and mussels etc to live and filter that water. We have a responsibility to safe guard the ability of the planet to support our progeny. We have the responsibility to repair the easy picking that Chris has described in his discussions of nonrenewable resources.

We have an interesting opportunity to repair the possibility of local sustainablle communities again being able to support their local populations without reliance on imports from outside the region. I suggest that you search: "SWAT Team" in the search box above and read the comments. If this the way the rich and powerful aare going to approach this period of change that Chris advocates our embracing we are in for a HELL of a fight! And the enviroment will be the battleground that dies first.

 

 

  • Wed, Dec 10, 2008 - 09:53pm

    #9

    Damnthematrix

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 09 2008

    Posts: 1132

    count placeholder

    Re: “”There is also the matter

[quote=affert]""There is also the matter of solar irradiance," adds Pesnell.
"Researchers are now seeing the dimmest sun in their
records. The change is small, just a fraction of a percent,
but significant. Questions about effects on climate are natural
if the sun continues to dim." ~
Quote from first article.[/quote]

The sun is dimming.  But the last time I saw figures on this (and I submerge myself in this stuff) it was by some utterly measly figure like 0.1%….  I will try and find out the article/link 

  • Wed, Dec 10, 2008 - 09:57pm

    #10

    Damnthematrix

    Status Diamond Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 09 2008

    Posts: 1132

    count placeholder

    Re: less spots on the sun

[quote=its only money]gees solgundy,i’m getting a mite stressed here,for starters the economy appears to be slowing and on a personel level my shares in lehman aren’t doing well,there’s a war going on somewhere and thats not good and those pesky terrorists are still up to miscief.double gees,don’t you read the newspapers.less spots on the sun,dear o me,the sun is a long way away and can’t possibly affect you or me so shrug it off .sorry to be so harsh on you man but don’t distract us,the serious thinkers,from the main game.the news on the economy is not looking good,i’d even say its a long way from good,worry about that instead.on a brighter note when peak oil gets here and production reaches a zenith there’ll be so much and so cheap that the increased carbon emissions will offset your concerns about global cooling.hope this helps.[/quote]

It’s only money…  hey? Well I think you’re worrying about all the wrong things, forget your money and investaments, worry about this:

 

Recession, Depression and Shortages as Opportunities

Along
with the terms recession and depression, have you noticed that the word
"shortage" has  been popping up in the headlines more frequently? I
have and it ranges from winter tire stortages in Quebec to propane
shortages and crop spoilage in North Dakota. One blog even predicts regional food shortages  in the USA in 2009

Google the word "shortage" and you get 31,854 hits; "shortages" turn up  19,767 hits

Anticipating future changes, resulting consequences and potential shortages can provide opportunities for opportunity-savvy  and anticipatory-thinking entrepreneurs. 

  • Food shortages> gene-altered crops
  • Doctor shortages> telemedicine, remote robotics via telemedicine etc
  • Road salt shortages>beet juice, other natural alternatives
  • Cash shortages> pawn brokers, Loan sharking (Illegal)
  • Personnel shortages in startups> glut of laidoff employees
  • Price-increase triggered shortages (ie cement, conventional
    building technology) > smart technology substitutes (smart cement or
    contour crafting)
  • Power shortages in 3d world countries India, China> energy alternatives
  • Parking shortages>smart meters

Over  a dozen different tactics can address shortage scenarios
(substitution, leap-frogging, reduction, elimination, co-production,
brokering/ matchmaking, bring in from abroad, dealing with counterfeit
products knocksoffs, vacume circumstances & opportunties, left
behind scenarios, natural triggers, triggering trigger events  etc)
and entrepreneurs should explore these to see if each is viable for
them. ( see Opportunity Recognition Master Class and Do you know how to spot business opportunities? and Smart Technology Opportunities from my talk at VTT in Finland.

Walter Derzko, Smart Economy, Toronto

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 1,010 total)

Login or Register to post comments