Getting Out (FSN Follow-up)

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  • Wed, Apr 07, 2010 - 02:16am

    #61
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    Re: Getting Out (FSN Follow-up)

I remain very curious about Argentina, Uruguay and Chile.

Although I have a lot of respect for Doug Casey as an investor, I don’t put a whole lot of faith in his opinions about where to live. I don’t mean that as a criticism, but just a recognition that he’s a guy with very different values than mine. Doug feels entitled to light up and smoke his cigars any time and any place of his choosing, regardless of whether the government or owner of the building has prohibited smoking. He seems to feel this is his right, and that governments or others are wrong to presume to have the authority to control his behavior. I personally watched him light up and smoke cigarettes in a hotel ballroom in Vegas, dropping his ashes on the carpet and shrugging off the people who tried to point out that smoking was prohibited in the room. If his resort in Argentina endorses this sort of behavior, I want nothing to do with the place.

On the other hand, I’m told Buenos Aries enforces no-smoking policies in all restaurants, bars and public places. I’m quite surprised by that but it makes the place sound a lot more compelling than I first imagined.

Erik

 

  • Wed, Apr 07, 2010 - 02:23pm

    #62
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    Re: Getting Out (FSN Follow-up)

[quote=Erik T.]

Hi chilej,

You should be able to cut and paste and even attach files to your posts. There’s no “guilty until proven innocent” here, so I think you must be encountering a technical problem.

[/quote]

 

Hi Erik,

Thanks. Mea culpa.

 I didn’t used to be quite so technically challenged. But since we worked the past several years fixing up/remodeling several houses to flip, I seem to have lost my edge with computers (lack of time) and i do “dumb” things sometimes.

I would like to share the methods I used to choose a country. I know everybody has their own style but maybe mine will be helpful to someone? I will need to go offline and compose it in word, before I make it too long or rambling for a post here. No surprise there, being female I have an endless pool of things to sayWink

Well as i said earlier I do a small yahoogroup w/ daily economic /financial/some teotwawki -type news. It’s my way of fighting back against  the controlled main street media. You know the guys that keep telling us the economy is all fixed and everythings turning up roses..pretty soon. I have over 2,000 articles posted since last year. I’m still playing around with the settings to make it a public site, but I still have some work to do on it…

Basically, I make the rounds through the financial/alternate news and post a few to a dozen articles per day. I can chronical what’s happening and i’m able to help my family  & friends that are busy with work/family to keep up with what’s coming down the road. If someone (the unitiated) read it start to finish they might consider moving up their exit plans.

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/economic_news/

(recent sample posts)

1.

L.A. Controller Says City Could Run Out of Cash by May 5 From: j.

2.
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA). Inteview From: j.
3.
Seattle Trash Collectors Make Average of $109,553 But Want More; From: j.
4.
Water bills go up in down economy as usage drops From: j.
5.
Recession forces immigrants to reconsider moving to California From: j.
6.
U.S. Standard of Living Unsustainable Without Drastic Action, From: j.
7.
Will fraud lift gold prices to $10,000/ounce? From: chilechinadollz
8.
Silver Looks Ready to Soar: J. Turk From: j.
  • Wed, Apr 07, 2010 - 03:45pm

    #63
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    Re: Getting Out (FSN Follow-up)

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on relocating to Iceland?  I’m not sure I could handle the cold weather but it may be that they are an emerging free society. 

Larry

  • Wed, Apr 07, 2010 - 10:16pm

    #64
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    Re: Getting Out (FSN Follow-up)

Okay, this is how I approached my research for expatriating:

 Basically I tried to do it just like I might review a potential investment (which is what it kind of is). I set aside my emotions and dug out the encyclopedias. I considered some parameters to measure each country against. I won’t go into gross detail, but this will give you the idea. For example:

1. Geo-political Stability

2. Financial Soundness (theirs)

3. Population Density

4. Availability of Natural Resources

5. Climate

 So as you can see, this immediately drops out places like Communist China, Russia, (1) Iceland, Greece (2) etc…

 

Next I took my line-up of countries and put them thru another test:

Socio-economic vibrancy (looking for a strong or growing middle class: low debt)

  1. Magnitude of Present/ Past Social Problems
  2. Corruption
  3. Work Ethic
  4. Moral Standards

 Then after that I tried to find out about, education, religion, infrastructure, legal issues, etc. After that I went into the detail stuff about goods and services available (ie restaurants, malls etc) and more esoteric stuff, like strategic location. Also key, what fits my budget.

 So the bottom line is that we were looking for a place with all the above criteria. Where we could be reasonably close to basic services. Within a 1.5 to 2 hour drive to a small city (malls, nice restaurants, shops etc). In a relatively secure area, nice local people & neighbors, access to fresh running water and the ability to raise livestock and grow our own food as needed. And most importantly, somewhere, where the government will just leave us alone, if things get bad!!

 For me that was Southern Chile.Smile For you maybe it’s somewhere else.

 

Once you get it narrowed down, hit the chat groups of that country (read everything, ask lots of questions), look on Escape Artist for country reports, etc.. and then take a trip to your potential host country and check it out.

  • Wed, Apr 07, 2010 - 11:09pm

    #65
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    Re: Getting Out (FSN Follow-up)

[quote=Moncho]

Chile may enter my shortlist of possibilities.

[/quote]

Moncho, if you are interested in Chile I have a link for you. I don’t advocate the attached law firm as I didn’t have the greatest personal experiece with them fyi. But here it is:  http://www.allchile.net/ Nicely it seems like the South is starting to turn into a sort of libertarian stronghold. You’ll see what I mean once you start looking through the threads.

[quote=DrKrbyLuv]

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on relocating to Iceland?  I’m not sure I could handle the cold weather but it may be that they are an emerging free society. 

Larry

[/quote]

Hi Larry, Iceland is in bad shape financially (post collapse)and will be for a long time, from what I’ve read. Unemployment is high and has all the accompanying problems that come with that. No other countries want their money. The only people who really survived financially were the ones w/ savings in gold and silver or other currencies. They raise a lot of sheep and have a good fishing industry but they have to import a large amount of stuff being an island nation and all. So they are in hard times right now trying to buy imports without hard currency. Boy did the banks really screw them!

Beyond that, my sister visited and says that they are a really wonderful people!!

Here was the financial joke from last year: Q: What’s the difference between Iceland and Ireland?
..Answer: one letter and six months. The inference is that the Irish economy could have less substance than a puff of
steam rising from an Icelandic geyser.

All kidding aside, Icelanders are fighting w/ immigrants over the dole at the foodbanks http://jrbowe.blogspot.com/ so I’m not sure they’d be looking happily at expatriates….they have a long ways to go to heal their economy still

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2010 - 12:39pm

    #66
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    Re: Getting Out Casey article

Chile got a new President in 2010, Miguel Juan Sebastián Piñera Echenique http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebasti%C3%A1n_Pi%C3%B1era

He is a well-known economist, investor, businessperson, politician, former Senator, and leader of the presidential and parliamentary electoral coalition Coalition for Change.

Isn’t  Miguel Juan Sebastián Piñera Echenique cut from the same cloth as the elites who have gotten us into this mess?  So, how would that be good for Chile?

 

Uruguay has a new president, Mujica; a former marxist guerilla who spent time in prison.

Interesting about Uruguay.  I would like to know more about that little country.

Bruce

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2010 - 12:49pm

    #67
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    Re: Getting Out (FSN Follow-up)

Chilej wrote:

Hi Larry, Iceland is in bad shape financially (post collapse)and will be for a long time, from what I’ve read. Unemployment is high and has all the accompanying problems that come with that. No other countries want their money. The only people who really survived financially were the ones w/ savings in gold and silver or other currencies. They raise a lot of sheep and have a good fishing industry but they have to import a large amount of stuff being an island nation and all. So they are in hard times right now trying to buy imports without hard currency. Boy did the banks really screw them!

I read a story  today (4-7-10) – I think it was in the WSJ [?], of a rapidly growing exodous / emigration out of Iceland.  Mostly to Norway and Europe.   Does not look like it will be a good place to go for a long while. 

Bruce

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2010 - 02:17pm

    #68
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    Re: Getting Out Casey article

[quote=Lordson]

Isn’t  Miguel Juan Sebastián Piñera Echenique cut from the same cloth as the elites who have gotten us into this mess?  So, how would that be good for Chile?  

Uruguay has a new president, Mujica; a former marxist guerilla who spent time in prison.

Interesting about Uruguay.  I would like to know more about that little country.   Bruce

[/quote]

Hi Bruce,

I think you bring up a good point about Pinera. The conservatives in Chile think that he’ll do a great job going forward. He certainly will be better than the Socialist Party and recent  information has been that the previous Michelle Bachelet administration has been raiding the cookie jar during her term. Supposedly they used up a lot of the monies that were supposed to be put aside for national emergencies like the recent earthquake, so the relief effort has been hampered because of nepotism and greed there. I can’t actually confirm this, but it’s supposed to be “insider” information.

That being said, my thought is that the elite have compromised any country (more or less) where there is a Central Bank.  Look at Switzerland, (home of the Bank for International Settlements, the bank of banks) previously the best example of a direct democratic republic. Now  all of Europe is debatably getting closer and closer to a  being a soft police state (arguably already is), everything is under the control of Brussels. So I think that many many countries already have lost their sovereign status.  Especially  and mainly Western countries.

To my way of thinking  I hope to find the best country out of reach of Washington and Brussels that I can and then hunker down. The ultimate game is world government, and that will bring a lot of strife (of varying degrees) everywhere in the world. No place is immune for sure. I don’t think Asia and Latin America will roll over as  easy though. If people have the bucks then get a place in 2 or 3 countries. Harry Shultz, says keep your body, citizenship and money each in different countries. (also attributed to D. Casey) Once I get settled in Southern Chile, I’m considering getting a small back up apartment in either Argentina, Equador, Costa Rica, Singapore or Malaysia.

Concerning Uruguay and President Mujica, that was an upsetting recent occurance. Supposedly he said he, “changed his ways” and doesn’t follow Marxist doctrine anymore. Maybe so or maybe we will just have to watch and wait? Not sure. My friend that is dividing investment and citizenship between Uruguay and Argentina has a blog spot  http://newsfromlatinamerica.blogspot.com/search/label/An%20Introduction%20to%20Uruguay

She is a very honest Christian woman, already long into retirement age. I’ve known her since 2004. She started this blog to inform her friends and fellow church goers about expatriating options. She does this from a “service-minded” perspective but in the future may try to turn it into a  to small business. Social Security is on the verge of bankruptcy so alot of people her age will be without a pension and looking for an affordable place to go, and I think Uruguay will fit the bill. You can look at her site, email her your phone number and she’ll call you back on her Skype line. She’s  getting herself settled into an apartment in Argentina at the moment. Not sure if she had the internet connected at her place yet, but the number is 321-282-6371 (she told me it’s okay to give this out, it’s on her blog as well)

Concerning Argentina, for those interested, it’s a fun exciting place, much more cosmopolitan than Chile. But if you like it, just don’t keep your money there. What a lot of Argentinians do is park their money in Uruguay. It’s just next door, so it’s become a sort of ad hoc “offshore” banking center for the well-heeled in Argentina.

Well I can see I’ve gone on far too long here. I have some other suggestions about Argentina and some for Equador, etc. But I guess I’ll save those up depending on if anyone seems interested.

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2010 - 02:24pm

    #69
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    Re: Getting Out Casey article

Wow!  A very helpful response.

Thank you chilej ! 

My wife and I have only limited resourses now.  Only our profession is a real asset, needed in most places.  So, we must be very careful to make the best choice because it would most likely be difficult to change again once we move.

I will be checking into all your info.

Bruce

  • Fri, Apr 09, 2010 - 01:59pm

    #70
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    Re: Getting Out Casey article

[quote=Lordson]

Wow!  A very helpful response.

Thank you chilej !  [/quote]

 

You’re welcome and thanks.

You are a really nice person, I’m glad I could be somewhat helpful.

For people with kids where to move is made even tougher because of issues with education and schooling. I noticed in a few other threads people discussed homeschooling. I did that for several years, I used the “Well Trained Mind” aka the Classical Method. In my experience homeschooling works well until about the age of 14, depending on your childs personality and temperment. Then if you don’t have a regular and large enough group of peers (doing the same thing ) then get ready for rebellion. Deceiding what curriculum to use is a whole project in itself.

But for people who want to use established private schools. I have a few links and also a teacher’s site that reviews schools around the entire world (it’s under $50 for the subscription, it might have been less I  just can’t  recall the exact number)

 Here is a country by country list. http://www.state.gov/m/a/os/index.htm (looks like it is being updated for 2010) These shown on the gov. site were mainly set up for diplomatic/international business families. Here’s the page description:

Office of Overseas Schools

The mission of the Office of Overseas Schools is to promote quality educational opportunities at the elementary and secondary level for dependents of American citizens carrying out our programs and interests of the U.S. Government abroad. Our efforts are to increase mutual understanding between the people of the United States and the people of other countries by upgrading educational institutions which serve to demonstrate American educational principles and methods employed in the United States.

Most of the major Latin Amercian cities/expat areas also have other private enlish speaking or/religious schools too. For example in:

  Costa Rica http://www.cdsgte.com/index.php 

in Equador http://www.alliance.k12.ec/ 

in Chile (British system) http://www.grange.cl/  in Chile “bi-lingual” ( mostly thru elementary) with I.B. degree http://www.sekpacifico.com/default.asp?idN1=0&idN2=0

Chile also has an american school, detailed in gov link above top 

 

 I used this service as one place to go and get teacher reviews of some of the schools http://www.internationalschoolsreview.com/nonmembers/copytotheforum.htm Btw. some fabulous reviews for schools in Malaysia and especially Singapore (above). I might add that most of the schools affiliated with the US Embassy/foreign business are rather pricey so prepare for sticker shock.

 

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