Food and shelter

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  • Sun, Feb 22, 2009 - 02:07am

    #11
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    Re: Food and shelter

[quote=strabes]

Socialism. Same reason they’re trying to inflate real estate prices now.  The ag lobby is huge and laws were passed to help politically connected farmers by subsidizing them to destroy crop to keep the price inflated.  

And people starved…gotta love government. 

[/quote]

Excuse me.  RICH PEOPLE DO NOT WANT SOCIALISM!  Socialism for rich people is FASCISM for the rest of us!

Has everyone forgotten that the fascists in Italy and Germany had an economic program that was central to their ideology?  It was based on the government and corporations conjoined like siamese twins.  In this dance however, the corporations always lead.  And they got to choose the music, too.

  • Sun, Feb 22, 2009 - 02:16am

    #13
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    Re: Food and shelter

[quote=durango]Excuse me.  RICH PEOPLE DO NOT WANT SOCIALISM!  Socialism for rich people is FASCISM for the rest of us!

[/quote]
 
That’s the same thing…just a certain type of socialism.  German fascism was "National Socialism."
 
There is no such thing as socialism without a rich elite…even the communist form is run by a hypocritical powerful rich politburo. 
  • Sun, Feb 22, 2009 - 02:16am

    #12
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    Re: Food and shelter

[quote=Rosemary][/quote]

That’s a good question to ponder.  I think it does affect some people more because finance is important.  But it’s far more pervasive than that.  The financial oligarchy controls our lives…the system within which we live, how we get food and shelter and be able to keep it instead of having it taken from us, our rights and who gets better standing with police and courts, it drives our political system, our philosophies, our religions, the inertia toward globalization and international government, etc etc.  

  • Sun, Feb 22, 2009 - 02:33am

    #14
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    Re: Food and shelter

Lisa G, Don, Rosemary, strabes –

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to educate me about a nasty part of the Depression. I’m usually not at a loss for words, but in this case …………………………………. sigh……………………………………Cry

 

Rosemary,

I did like your bit of down-home wisdom. Smile

  • Sun, Feb 22, 2009 - 03:10am

    #15
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    Re: Food and shelter

"Reality television!"

Heh, heh.  No, I prefer to think that is just reality. 🙂  If one doesn’t listen to what our media presents, it is an amazingly different story to what actually happens as told by those you choose yourself that you know are truth tellers in your gut. (Like our Chris)  Usually these are not the victim sort, you know?  They don’t make good stories, dyk.  I asked the maintenance guy here what he will do when things crash.  He said simply "Nothing.  I already live that way you’re talking about".

If you review the media about what  happened during Katrina & Rita, and then talk to the old timers and small towners, it is an amazingly different story.  People are a lot more grounded and generous than the spectacular stories you have heard on tv that are greared to make you afraid so you buy things to make you feel safe. 

I lived in Texas at the time of those hurricanes but can remember weeping mightily as I watched the devastation and looting of my beloved city on my neighbor’s tv.  But when I finally got home, I heard much more from the actual people involved about the heroics and the risks taken by hundreds of individuals for fellow human beings than I ever heard about looting.  Yes, there was an increase in crime (one of my friends got burglarized 3 times in 2 months), but there was much more awareness about what is really important in life.  When I think about that time now, I remember the 5 mile long caravan of trailered boats that came immediately from the area I live now to rescue people from rooftops in flooded New Orleans (not their favorite people, those New Orleanians, I mean, according to long time press).  They did not succeed in getting through for an amazingly long time thanks to a FEMA snafu ("Brownie"), but you must really think about the thought here.  Fellow humans (or dogs or horses or exotic snakes) need you and you respond with what you have. The government won’t and has almost never responded appropriately to the needs of its citizens (there are too many?)  Our government has never worked, we just never admitted it before.

But you can and may respond to a neighbor in need, whatever your feelings for them.  Thinking about it here, that may be the basis of humankind banding together in the first place.  I really don’t see why we can’t do it again, do you?

Except that there are so many distractions keeping us from thinking freely about these things, aren’t there?

Rosemary 

 

 

  • Sun, Feb 22, 2009 - 03:41am

    #16
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    Re: Food and shelter

[quote=Rosemary Sims]

Except that there are so many distractions keeping us from thinking freely about these things, aren’t there?

[/quote]

I guess we have had it so easy we have trouble seeing whats important any more. Life is so fast, if we don’t keep running on the spot we will be left in the wake. Lets hope our crisis challenges us without destroying us. If people can organise to help others stay in their homes then there is still some hope.  I hope your government is not successful in stealing back the initiative and that people can see through their divisive plans.

Don

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  • Sun, Feb 22, 2009 - 04:52am

    #18
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    Re: Food and shelter

" If people can organise to help others stay in their homes then there is still some hope"

I don’t know if a "successful" life itself is about helping others or helping ourselves feel useful actually.  I do try not to get too philosophical and stay grounded in day to day life.  My personal philosophy "in action"  when you get down to it is that if somebody is in need near me, I extend a hand.  As far as the world, or my state, or my parish goes, I read and comment.  But when a neighbor, regardless of political bent or color or morals is in trouble, my hand is out.  And I do think that is the way of most humans today practice real life on the real life level.

I really, really do not believe that we should even consider the "state of the world".  That is a fruitless task which can only create ulcers, considering the distractions.  I believe instead that we should do our utmost to help others to think on their own and support those who do, something that is almost lost in our society.

"Life is so fast, if we don’t keep running on the spot we will be left in the wake"

Don, I really, really don’t believe this.  Your experience of life is controlled by you and you alone.  If you choose to have it speed up by investing your time in keeping up (I’d guess this is a media controlled designation, no?), I guess you miss out on some things.  You may be surprised at how little the things you missed out on that really count in life experience at all.

 "I guess we have had it so easy we have trouble seeing whats important any more. "

I think that’s exactly right.  We might begin with the basic question of human life:  Why?  Or as honed by early scientists and philosophers, What is the purpose of life?

That would be a really good start I think.

Rosemary

  • Sun, Feb 22, 2009 - 07:14am

    #19
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    Re: Food and shelter

Rosemary

My belief about speed comes from longish times spent in the natural environment. I found that I slowed right down and fell in step with the moon and tides. I also noticed that my eyes couldn’t focus quickly enough for modern travel each time I returned. 

I keep most media out of my life but I live in society, all be it a relatively laid back and slow one here in almost rural New Zealand. Euclidean (rather than fractal) geometry shapes our thought processes and lives as do these infernal machines. Our thoughts are shaped by our environment and vice versa. Structured compartentalised thinking fills my head and steals my time. I can’t be here without it effecting me. Even with a goodly amount of fractal input. 

[quote=rosemary]

I really, really do not believe that we should even consider the "state
of the world".  That is a fruitless task which can only create ulcers,
considering the distractions.  I believe instead that we should do our
utmost to help others to think on their own and support those who do,
something that is almost lost in our society. 

[/quote] 

State of the world is a pretty wide cover. Philosophy is my real joy. I want to hear what others think and offer my own thoughts, maybe even change my mind. I want to look out of the cave to see whats coming. I want to understand our situation. I want to test my understanding against my experience and that of others. I was lucky enough to miss a lot of schooling but to go to Uni a little later in life. Best of both worlds. Now, through circumstances and like many of us here, I have the time to look and see some of what others don’t. I enjoy encountering new experiences and to dip into them. Then to draw back and take on board what I have found. That’s what I am doing here. Never been in an Internet group like this before. Wouldn’t be here if I hadn’t concluded that money is going to end. Giving it a lot more attention than I ever have before because money feeds me and has done all my life and when (if?) it stops I need to be as prepared as I can be.

Don

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  • Sun, Feb 22, 2009 - 02:22pm

    #20
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    Re: Food and shelter

[quote=strabes][quote=durango]Excuse me.  RICH PEOPLE DO NOT WANT SOCIALISM!  Socialism for rich people is FASCISM for the rest of us!

[/quote]
 
That’s the same thing…just a certain type of socialism.  German fascism was "National Socialism."
 
There is no such thing as socialism without a rich elite…even the communist form is run by a hypocritical powerful rich politburo. 

[/quote]

 No, it is not the same thing. The Nazis used the word socialism but the descriptor, "national" changed everything. "Socialism" always needs a descriptor to describe the type of socialism.

Socialism without a rich elite existed before, in Spain. It is called Libertarian Socialism, or Anarchy, which is worth spending the time investigating. (And no, it is not the same thing as Libertarianism)

 http://flag.blackened.net/liberty/libsoc.html 

 

  • Sun, Feb 22, 2009 - 03:03pm

    #22
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    Re: Food and shelter

Durango speaks sooth up in #16.

 

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