Flush niacin — good brand?
well, all are branded as Niacin, but B3 is actually a group of substances and hence, with more or less different characteristics and different effects.
- Nicotinic acid – The “true” Niacin or the “Flush Type”
- Nicotinamide – Extended Release Niacin
- Inositol hexanicotinate – Flush Free Niacin
For the health benefits, only the true” Niacin (Flush Type) will do the job because the three types use entirely different pathways.
Nicotinic acid –> Nicotinic acid mononucleotide (NAMN) –> Nicotinic acid adenine nucleotide (NAAD) –> NAD+
while Nicotinamide has:
Nicotinamide -> Nicotinamide Riboside (NR) -> Nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) –> NAD+.
On the end NAD+ is all we need 😀
The conversion of Nicotinamide Riboside (NR) -> Nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN) will be done by an enzyme NAMPT which goes down with age. Currently there are some controversies on how effective the Nicotinamide/NMN cycle works.
For the Nicotinic acid – the flush type – this is a straight pathway (not a cycle) and so it might be somehow a bit more effective (my guess).
Started taking Niacin yesterday and boy is that flush interesting. Feels like my face is on fire for about 20 mins. I kind of enjoyed it. Don’t really understand why someone would want a non flush type, isn’t the flush the actual point of the whole exercise? Anyway I will see how it goes as I am still having residual long covid symptoms 7 months after infection.
Does taking flush niacin at — say — 500 mg per day — clash with any other vitamins or with any drugs that you know of?
I took 500mg Nicotinic acid (Solgar) yesterday on a full stomach. First time. Nothing happened so I waited somewhere around 30m or so and took another 500mg. Pretty sure the emptier stomach on the second one made the difference and it didn’t take long.
I have to say.. you’ll definitely know when this stuff is working. It started in my face and worked it’s way all around the skull/brain then the shoulders and all the way down. It was a really odd burning/tingling sensation with a fair bit of heat generated. After a while I noticed a lot more clarity.
Dr. Kats seems to suggest using both the Nicotinic acid and the Nicotinamide for long covid. He tweets about it quite a lot and has a pinned tweet/thread.
Don’t really understand why someone would want a non flush type…
Well, what many people don’t understand is how to start taking Niacin. I read on Amazon many comments like “… burning like hell – this should be forbidden” or “I almost died” etc.
Then I look at the brand and the dosage and I see 1000mg per pill. And then I look back to the picture of the commenter and see a rather decent lady (just for example). Hmmm
Well, if someone with a decent body (<50kg/125lb) is so courageous and takes the first time a 1000mg True Niacin pill… he will certainly experience the purgatory if not hell. 😀
The best is to do the following:
if decent body mass (<55kg/120lb) -> start with 250mg and if no flush take the next time 500mg. With 500mg someone decent should certainly feel something. Then stick to that dose for 2 weeks until the flush is not that strong anymore. Then the dose can be increased by another 250mg until the comfort point is reached.
For persons 90kg/200lb in most cases 250mg will be only a tickle. 500mg might be a better starting point.
Two weeks ago I tried chewing a 500 mg sustained-release tablet (NOW brand) to get the flush. Now doing that every morning, washing it down with a Potassium Bicarbonate-Vitamin C fizz. Some mornings I completely forget to make coffee to wake me up, as the flush does that without coffee side effects. And no caffeine-deficient headache on the missed days!
A quick search says there is no known interaction between niacin and caffeine although the combination can increase dizziness, nausea, stomach problems, and diarrhea.
As always, consult with a credible doctor before experimenting with drugs 🙂
are a different kettle of fish. They don’t flush when niacin is injected subcutaneously.
Reference: “The Madness of Adam and Eve” by Horrobin.
Those who are interested in niacin have to read Dr. A. Hoffer who wrote many books and articles on the subject. It think he was nominated for a Nobel due to his remarkable work on niacin in schizophrenics. His story is interesting.
http://doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html (site of biographer )
[ notice the 5 part series, just change the number in the address]
Notice you can take a combo of the various forms of niacin depending on the health condition(s) you are trying to address.
Also some people suggest that support for methylation be included–TMG, B12, etc–unless you are “overmethylated” using the term of Dr. Walsh.
Check out Dr Hoffer who I think was nominated for the Nobel for his work on niacin for schizophrenia. Hoffer has amazing stories, wrote many books on the subject. http://www.townsendletter.com/Nov2009/hoffer1109.html
Site of his biographer http://doctoryourself.com/hoffer_niacin.html
Article on Hoffer’s work with niacin
[ notice the 5 part series, just change the number in the address]
Some say it is wise to support methylation with TMG, B12, etc when taking more than small doses of niacin unless you are “overmethylated” to use the term of Dr Walsh. https://www.alternativementalhealth.com/commentary-on-nutritional-treatment-of-mental-disorders-2/#SA
TMG – yes. Flush niacin might need to be balanced out with an equal amount of TMG; if you have “methylation” issues, best to research more – its a complicated subject.
canuck – clashing – not that I know of. I take a … number of supplements. They all seem to be ok with each other.
1000 mg – haha – yes. Too much to start with. Agree with Andy’s methodology; maybe start with 250 (or half-a-500mg capsule), see how that goes, then increase to 500 mg.
On a full stomach, it can take 30-60 minutes before I get the flush, and it seems to be somewhat muted. Empty stomach = I get the full effect, in about 5-10 minutes.
Flush diminishes over time. In the Coronary Drug Project, they were taking 3g/day.
Best to divide the doses across the day. That’s Hoffer (and Kaufman)’s method. I often take it with an equivalent amount of vit-C. That’s more Hoffer too.
According to Hoffer, schizophrenics may need “substantially” higher doses. 3-6 grams per day.
Kats – niacin and niacinamide do different things. I think flush niacin is more important overall. We don’t have a lot of evidence on using both together. Here’s the genesis of “taking both”:
When you smoke a cigarette, it ends up generating both NA and NAM from the nicotine. Smokers appear to be protected from COVID. So the hypothesis is, if you take both NA and NAM, maybe you can get the “smoking protection” but w/o having to actually light up. [Dropping the NA+NAM in smoke directly on your lungs and URT is probably more effective than through the GI & bloodstream.]
The whole concept of smoking protecting you from a respiratory illness is bizarre, but very present in the data. The counterintuitive behavior is what got me looking at niacin in the first place.
I have a (3% solution) NA+NAM spray that – if I ever get this illness, I’m going to try spraying into my nose and throat and see how that works. That’s roughly the same as SP’s 20:1 dilution of his betadine nasal spray.
Kats is hinting that PM is coming up with a NA+NAM vape device. He and I talked about this offline for quite a while. I think its a fantastic idea. “Healthy” smoking.
NAM is also good for skincare. Look up “niacinamide skincare products.” It’s a thing. They charge $50 for “niacinamide serum.”
I made a spray for literally 10 cents. “Here honey, look what I made you!”
There’s a tiktok video of a mid-20s female who made a niacin spray. It even gives her a slight flush. It looks like she enjoys it!
I think it would be fun to have a central place where we could all record our experiences – how well it worked – or didn’t work! A testimonial/results common database. A permanent version of this thread, perhaps, with some organization behind it.