Flush niacin — good brand?

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  • Sun, Aug 01, 2021 - 11:07am

    #1
    Canuck21

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    Flush niacin — good brand?

Please can whoever wrote this — ?Jim? —

“I like my niacin.  (Flush) Niacin supplements were revolutionary for me.  I do have a decent diet, I cook most of my own food, but I was still niacin deficient.  I know this because when I supplemented, my anxiety just went away.  It was remarkable.  500 mg Flush Niacin/day and the anxiety was just gone.  And once I looked up how all the pathways worked, it all made sense.”

— recommend a couple of good brands to buy and how/when to use it? I really want to try it and I can’t wait for Chris to start his niacin thread. Maybe the niacin would help combat all these PP doomsday scenarios because however valid they are, they are cumulatively becoming Far Too Much.

  • Sun, Aug 01, 2021 - 11:59am

    #2
    davefairtex

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    that was me

I use a very basic brand.  This is where I order it from.  Less than $6.

https://www.iherb.com/pr/now-foods-niacin-500-mg-100-capsules/30566

Your first niacin may be exciting.  Especially if you are really stressed out.  “When you get the flush, that’s how you know the niacin is working.”  I’m only half kidding.  Its actually true.

Try it right after dinner.  No alcohol – that enhances the flush.  (at least it did for me).  Perhaps – start slow, break open the capsule and take half (250 mg) for your first dose, and then as the flush diminishes each day, you can take more.

I also take TMG; it seems to be required for methylation.

https://www.iherb.com/pr/now-foods-tmg-1-000-mg-100-tablets/3344

It took about a week for me to notice the effects.  That’s because I wasn’t really looking for an anxiety relief mechanism.  I’ve seen other people get much faster results.  Same-day or next-day.

  • Sun, Aug 01, 2021 - 12:12pm   (Reply to #2)

    #3
    Canuck21

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    Flush niacin — good brand?

Thanks Dave, I appreciate the help. We have that brand in Canada too, which is great.

  • Sun, Aug 01, 2021 - 01:17pm

    #4
    debu

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    Flush niacin — good brand?

Dave,

Have you worked out a good Niacin/TMG supplementation ratio?

I’ve been taking 250 mg/day of Nicacin for about a year now and have wanted to increase to 500 mg but was concerned about demethylation implications.

With the addition of TMG you seem to have cracked the Niacin code!  Thank you.

Will be interesting to hear what Chris has to say on this topic.

D

 

  • Sun, Aug 01, 2021 - 02:02pm

    #5
    davefairtex

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    TMG ratio

I use a 1:1 ratio.  My sense is I could do more TMG (and I effectively do – I have this beetroot juice I drink, and beetroot powder too) without any problem.  I read reviews at various sites where people with issues were taking 6g/day.  There are 3000 mg of TMG in 1 kilogram of beets.

There’s a whole thread on TMG and homocysteine that I’m going to write up eventually.

Two things betaine (TMG) addresses: alzheimers, and heart disease.  I haven’t done as deep a dive on this as I have niacin, but here’s a hint.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29480200/

We here present a Consensus Statement, based on the Bradford Hill criteria, and conclude that elevated plasma total homocysteine is a modifiable risk factor for development of cognitive decline, dementia, and Alzheimer’s disease in older persons

One way to fix elevated homocysteine: TMG.

And I’m also guessing that the powders and the juices end up being better for you than the pills, since the complexity of the plant has stuff that tends to work together.  That seems to come up in most articles I read.

Example: artemisia annua has very small amounts of artemisinin, but it cures malaria just as well.  Better, for some, who have artemisinin-resistant malaria infections.

  • Sun, Aug 01, 2021 - 03:38pm

    #6
    Mpup

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    Flush niacin — good brand?

This is the brand I’ve been using, gives a nice flush 🙂  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IIDB6JE/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&aaxitk=9baace026fc2725ae2925583c3eab88e&hsa_cr_id=4015841190001&pd_rd_plhdr=t&pd_rd_r=12fe43da-14d4-42fa-8c29-fa6210577654&pd_rd_w=1pONo&pd_rd_wg=TUQEf&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_0_title

  • Mon, Aug 02, 2021 - 01:46am

    #7
    dan314159

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    Flush niacin — good brand?

Does niacinamide work? (no niacin flush)

  • Mon, Aug 02, 2021 - 02:34am

    #8
    davefairtex

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    niacinamide

Niacinamide works differently.  I have no evidence as to how well it works for anxiety.  I have seen it work for arthritis (n=2).  And it is a precursor for NAD+, just like niacin.  But it doesn’t raise HDL-C.  No platelet serotonin effect either.

There was a mouse study on niacinamide – where special mice that develop dementia had their dementia condition reversed by niacinamide.

https://www.jneurosci.org/content/28/45/11500

Nicotinamide Restores Cognition in Alzheimer’s Disease Transgenic Mice via a Mechanism Involving Sirtuin Inhibition and Selective Reduction of Thr231-Phosphotau…

Histone deacetylase (HDAC) inhibitors increase histone acetylation and enhance memory and synaptic plasticity. We evaluated the efficacy of nicotinamide, a competitive inhibitor of the sirtuins or class III NAD+-dependent HDACs in 3xTg-AD mice, and found that it restored cognitive deficits associated with pathology.

Nicotinamide, also known as niacinamide, is a sirtuin inhibitor and the biologically active form of niacin (vitamin B3) which has been widely used clinically for >40 years (Knip et al., 2000). Nicotinamide is the precursor for the coenzyme β-nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) which is necessary for cellular function and energy metabolism. 3xTg-AD and nontransgenic control (NonTg) mice, both 4-months of age at study onset, were given nicotinamide in their drinking water (200 mg/kg/d) for 4 months. Cognition was tested on a battery of cognitive tasks to examine hippocampal-, amygdala-, and cortical-dependent learning, which comprise the major brain areas affected by AD pathology in this mouse model (Oddo et al., 2003). 3xTg-AD mice develop deficits in hippocampal-dependent behavioral tasks in the form of long-term retention deficits by 4 months of age, coinciding with the appearance of intraneuronal Aβ (Billings et al., 2005). By 8 months, somatodendritic accumulation of phospho- and non-phosphotau also occurs in the hippocampus and amygdala, but not the cortex (Oddo et al., 2003).

These preclinical findings suggest that oral nicotinamide may represent a safe treatment for AD and other tauopathies, and that phosphorylation of tau at Thr231 may regulate tau stability.

So there’s that.  Of course the mice in this study got ridiculously large amounts of niacinamide; 200 mg/kg = 15g/day for a 75kg person.  That seems like way too much for a human.  But as a prevention, or a very early treatment, at a much lower dose, it might be just the thing.  There was big excitement about this 12 years ago when this first came out.

Here’s an overview article that lists the papers and talks about mechanisms.

https://www.earthclinic.com/niacinamide-for-alzheimers.html

  • Mon, Aug 02, 2021 - 02:40am

    #9
    Canuck21

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    why is having a flush good?

I don’t understand why having the flush effect in one’s face is good and what it signifies?

  • Mon, Aug 02, 2021 - 04:30am

    #10
    davefairtex

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    why the flush

It is hard to disentangle propaganda (OMG!  Flush!) from companies that really don’t want us to use cheap & effective niacin, from the actual effects of the compound.  Companies have done a lot of work trying to make niacin go away.  Widespread use of this substance would – I believe – render obsolete entire lines of drug products.  They desperately want this substance to die a quiet death.  Fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders, and all that.

With that said – best I understand, the slightly giddy feeling I get comes from platelet serotonin release.  The redness, from mast cell histamine degranulation.  Hoffer opined – way back when – that the niacin flush sure looked a lot like the reaction you get when you inject histamine into someone.

When I took a lot of niacin, the serotonin effects showed up in platelet counts – mine dropped when I was doing 2g/day – but then they bounced back when I went back down to 1g/day.  This was before TMG though.

How much of the anti-depressive effects come from that serotonin release?  I’m not sure.  I suspect the answer is: “definitely some of it.”  Its why I’d pick niacin over niacinamide for anxiety.

Partly I’m joking when I say: “the flush tells you the niacin is working.”  I’m channeling Vax company propagandists.

But partly I’m not joking.  Dr Kats has felt for quite a while that there is an energy release that happens from niacin – similar to an exercise-in-a-pill – and the flush is the manifestation of this energy release.  I wasn’t sure about this – but then he posted a link to this rat model paper:

https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/1756386

Physiological and Anti-obesity Effects of Melatonin and Niacin Supplements  in Rat Models

Plus, the “sustained release” niacin tends to be bad for you.

So yeah.  Flush is good for you.  Flush tells you: “the niacin is working.”  🙂

Dropping the histamine in your mast cells, and releasing serotonin from your platelets.

Among many other things.  I think Kats is right about the “niacin = energy release” hypothesis.  Who will fund a real trial?  Lets see.  Maybe – nobody?

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