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Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

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  • Fri, Jun 26, 2009 - 08:47pm

    #261
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    Re: squalene oil – Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

I searched google for " squalene oil" and the overwhelmingly majority of hits show it as a helpful substance both externally used and internally used. That is not to say that adverse reaction do not occur but it does make me wonder if  squalene oil itself is that harmful of a substance to the vast majority of people. Still, that leaves all the other possibilities regarding H1N1 and, perhaps, Baxter…

  • Fri, Jun 26, 2009 - 08:49pm

    #262
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

Sam,

That’s a common response from the FDA.  It means, they haven’t approved it which means absolutely nothing.  The FDA is one of the worst run departments of our wonderful government.  Also, they approved aspartame in many food as well as fluoride in your water…..both incredibly poisonous. 

  • Fri, Jun 26, 2009 - 09:21pm

    #263
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

[quote=LogansRun]

Sam,

That’s a common response from the FDA.  It means, they haven’t approved it which means absolutely nothing.  The FDA is one of the worst run departments of our wonderful government.  Also, they approved aspartame in many food as well as fluoride in your water…..both incredibly poisonous. 

[/quote]

LogansRun,

With all due respect, I have worked in the medical device industry for many, many years and have seen what happens when unregulated (non-FDA approved) products are foisted on the American public. At a minimum, there are no controls over how much, or how little, ingredient is actually available in each pill, liquid, capsule, etc.

Granted the FDA is not perfect. However, ingesting unregulated products into your body is not very wise IMHO.

  • Sat, Jun 27, 2009 - 12:23am

    #264
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

Congratulations Sam!  You work in one of the most regulated areas of business in the entire world! 

No in all reality, again this is the same agency that has allowed HOW MANY poisons into the system?  AND, I put in un-approved FDA products into my "system" every day and seem to be normal.  I have to say, you wish wash a lot on what the gov’t is GOOD at and what they’re NOT good at…..  You believe the FDA but don’t believe in the Treasury Dept?….etc, etc, etc.  I believe the FDA as much as I believe the AMA.  I mean really, make up your mind. 

  • Sat, Jun 27, 2009 - 12:53am

    #265
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

[quote=LogansRun]

Congratulations Sam!  You work in one of the most regulated areas of business in the entire world! 

No in all reality, again this is the same agency that has allowed HOW MANY poisons into the system?  AND, I put in un-approved FDA products into my "system" every day and seem to be normal.  I have to say, you wish wash a lot on what the gov’t is GOOD at and what they’re NOT good at…..  You believe the FDA but don’t believe in the Treasury Dept?….etc, etc, etc.  I believe the FDA as much as I believe the AMA.  I mean really, make up your mind. 

[/quote]

Very funny! If you read my post about the FDA carefully, at no time did I say government (or the FDA) is good.

However, the reality is this – I have observed, from the inside, what happens when companies put out products that turn out not to be what they claim. People have been injured or killed because of that. If you don’t believe me, go to the FDA web site (fda.gov) and check their history files on failed and/or recalled products. Years ago there was a very nasty radiation treatment machine that didn’t work as claimed and fried a few people before it was pulled off the market.

Meanwhile, I’m simply pointing out that ingesting unregulated products is like playing "Russian Roulette"; you may be lucky – or not.

If you, or anyone else wants to put unregulated products into your body – knock yourself out. It’s your body and you’re entitled to do whatever you want with it (except drop it on my head!).

I’m warning about MMS because people who read this thread are entitled to know both sides of the story. If, after reading joe2baba’s posts and mine, they still choose to ingest MMS, at least they’ve been warned of the potential risks.

If nothing happens to them, great. If they have a negative reaction, perhaps they’ll be a wee bit more careful next time – assuming they’re still around for the next time.

To quote Dirty Harry, "Do you feel lucky today?"

  • Sat, Jun 27, 2009 - 02:44am

    #266
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

There is a reasonable possibility that this will not turn out to be a flu ‘scare’ but rather a truly disruptive period of time that is less a dry run than it is a major hit to a global economy already sliding on banana peels.  

The incidence of infection is being grossly underreported in the US, partly because many states have stopped testing for it unless a person is so sick that they’ve been hospitalized.  It’s certainly not just another version of seasonal flu, which attacks primarily the very old and infirm or babies.  This pandemic flu is behaving like a pandemic flu does; it attacks the children, teens and young to midlife adults.  In a disturbing number of cases, the person suddenly comes down with the flu and dies within 2 to 4 days.  No, this isn’t your normal flu.  The fact that it has the distinct potential for mutating into an even nastier form (or even combining with the 60%+ lethal H5N1) is keeping some very reputable research scientists, epidemiologists and medical officials up at night.  The comparisons being made to the 1918 pandemic are chilling.  It started out the same way this one has started and we’ve all learned how that played out.

If you’re interested in learning more, these sites are recognized as being reputable sources of up-to-date information:

http://www.newfluwiki2.com/frontPage.do

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/swineflu/index.html

http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/

When the cooler months and winter arrive in the northern hemisphere this year, we might find out if this virus is only a hollow scare or the real deal that’s been dreaded but poorly planned for.

 

Best wishes to all of us,  

grandma

  • Sat, Jun 27, 2009 - 03:16am

    #267
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

 Sorry Sam, I think I have to side with LR on this one. While I’m very appreciative of your post (I would have posted something similar if you hadn’t already), the FDA is the biggest joke of them all. Its completely owned but the drug companies. Just think of how many people have died or harmed from drugs that the FDA approved. Not to mention, how many natural alternatives, that are just as effective, and a lot less dangerous than their drug counterparts, that have been banned by the FDA for no other reason than they compete with the drug company’s products.

The drug companies control the medical schools and research as well. In my opinion, if your a M.D. and not a surgeon or radiologist, your just a well educated salesman for the drug companies. Which is pretty pathetic considering the hell someone goes through to be a doctor these days.

Something you might want to listen to:

Big Banks – Big Pharma – Big Money *AUDIO*

All that being said, I know your post was the correct advice and I agree wholeheartedly with the intent of your post. Sorry if I went off on a tangent.

  • Sat, Jun 27, 2009 - 04:37am

    #268
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

[quote=JAG]In my opinion, if your a M.D. and not a surgeon or radiologist, your just a well educated salesman for the drug companies.[/quote]

Well, thank you for that, Jeff!

Actually, in many respects, many of the procedure-oriented specialties in medicine are similarly influenced by the device-making industry. It is all too easy to be seduced by the "newest and greatest" product on the market. Sometimes, these devices and technologies are legitimate breakthroughs (laparoscopic surgery, for example), some appear to be ho-hum (coronary stents, in many cases, in my opinion), and some are dismal failures (I honestly can’t think of one right now, despite racking my brain for several minutes, as they typically come and go so quickly).

Nonetheless, in defense of my colleagues (medical and surgical), most of the practitioners out there are trying to do the very best for their patients, with the tools at hand. Although we surgeons may sometimes jokingly refer to our medical colleagues as "herb doctors", the truth is that most are doing great work. Many use treatments that don’t come from big pharmaceutical companies (fish oil for dyslipidemia, for example) or use available medications for "off-label", but reasonable, indications.

I realize this recent discourse had more to do with disparaging the FDA than slamming doctors, but I thought I should pipe up in our defense.

As to the FDA, pharmaceutical companies, and our method of selecting medications (and devices), there is much with one could find fault. I’m a libertarian at heart; accordingly, I feel there should be very limited influence by government on the choices we make, and that includes those choices related to our own health.

The problem, from a pragmatic point of view, is how to enable people to make intelligent choices with regard to medical issues that are frequently terribly complex, involving a biologic system as intricate and incompletely understood as the human body. Even as a physician, I have to spend a considerable amount of time when I encounter some disease process with which I am not already intimately familiar. How does someone without that background navigate such territory?

For example, say I dug up a root from my backyard, tried it on a few patients, and felt it was of benefit for some malady. Without pharmaceutical companies and something akin to the FDA, how do I go about proving the efficacy and safety of that root, isolating the active chemical from potentially hazardous contaminants, etc.? Even if I could do the work myself, how could I fund the experiments necessary? It certainly shouldn’t be enough that I launch a website, extoll the presumed benefits of my newfound root, and perhaps sell the root online.

Again, from a purely pragmatic point of view, any suggestions? I’d very much like to have minimal government involvement, but if the process was directed only by physicians and pharmacists (both with a potential economic interest in the process), is that any better? I’d really appreciate some creative input.

  • Sat, Jun 27, 2009 - 06:04am

    #270
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

Sorry about that rant Doc. I truly have the upmost respect for your profession, and since I have no practical suggestions, solutions, or even inklings on how to improve the current system I should have kept my big mouth shut. I very sorry if I offended you in any way. 

I wish there was a way to better "harmonize" the goal of helping patients with the goal of maximizing corporate profits, but there really isn’t. 

This such a sore subject for me because everyday my wife and I see needless pain and suffering in our practice. What we do to help these patients is very simple and based on the excellent research of Janet Travell MD, and David Simons MD. But is their work taught in medical schools? No its not. And the reason is because no pharmaceutical company can profit from its application. 

But here I go again, so I better shut up now. 

Thanks.

  • Sat, Jun 27, 2009 - 06:05am

    #271
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

ccpetersmd wrote:

The problem, from a pragmatic point of view, is how to enable people to make intelligent choices with regard to medical issues that are frequently terribly complex, involving a biologic system as intricate and incompletely understood as the human body. Even as a physician, I have to spend a considerable amount of time when I encounter some disease process with which I am not already intimately familiar. How does someone without that background navigate such territory?

For example, say I dug up a root from my backyard, tried it on a few patients, and felt it was of benefit for some malady. Without pharmaceutical companies and something akin to the FDA, how do I go about proving the efficacy and safety of that root, isolating the active chemical from potentially hazardous contaminants, etc.? Even if I could do the work myself, how could I fund the experiments necessary? It certainly shouldn’t be enough that I launch a website, extoll the presumed benefits of my newfound root, and perhaps sell the root online.

Again, from a purely pragmatic point of view, any suggestions?

 

Those in this thread who are railing against the FDA are missing my point entirely. Only the good doctor has offered up a pragmatic, logical perspective of what I was trying to convey. Basically, beware of untested products – how hard is that to understand?

The others of you that prefer to ingest the aforementioned root without knowing its potentially lethal side effects are playing with fire. If you get burned, it will be well deserved. For all of its faults, the FDA is the best protection against out of control medical/pharmaceutical companies that you are going to find in this country. If not the FDA, then what or who?

Some posters on this thread would choose to throw the baby out with the bathwater –  that’s their choice. As for me, I’ll stick with regulated products, thank you very much.

How strange that we have advanced so far in the medical industry and so many people still prefer to go with untried, untested, products simply because they are hyped as the current miraculous solution to all your ills. Doesn’t anyone remember the term "snake-oil salesman"?

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