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Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

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  • Thu, Apr 30, 2009 - 06:28pm

    #151
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    Re: Mandatory Mass Vaccination

[quote=c1oudfire]

I’m wondering how many people here would be opposed to mandatory mass vaccination, enforced by marshall law? 

[/quote]

With this, as with many things, I am in agreement with Ron Paul. The government doesn’t have any business practicing medicine. Updates and recommendations are fine, but I’d draw the line at forced vaccinations.

  • Thu, Apr 30, 2009 - 06:33pm

    #152
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    Re: Mandatory Mass Vaccination

[quote=ccpetersmd]

[quote=c1oudfire]

I’m wondering how many people here would be opposed to mandatory mass vaccination, enforced by marshall law? 

[/quote]

With this, as with many things, I am in agreement with Ron Paul. The government doesn’t have any business practicing medicine. Updates and recommendations are fine, but I’d draw the line at forced vaccinations.

[/quote]

Yes!  Good to have you on board for this one, Dr. Peters!

  • Thu, Apr 30, 2009 - 06:39pm

    #154
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

 

c1oudfire said:

In other threads, I have expressed the opinion that the ability to entertain ideas and speculate, without diving for the comfort of premature judgment, is essential to the ability to accurately perceive the world, and to appropriately respond to events.  In the spirit of doing so, I offer the following as information, to be added to that supplied by the MSM, for us to consider, without feeling the need to jump to any conclusions about its meaning or veracity, but simply to be added to our collective database.

 

Well said!  It’s a shame that our politicians, government officials and the MSM no longer hold any credibility – especially at a time like this when truth and candor are needed.  Something smells fishy and I don’t expect Joe Biden or the NBC to share the truth.  Sherry Baker, Health Science Editor for the Natural News asks:

Swine Flu Smoking Gun?  CDC was Combining Flu Viruses in 2004

Excerpts-

Last week, when what is now called a "swine flu" was first reported to be infecting and killing some people in Mexico, health officials noted it was a strain of flu never before seen. In fact, it is technically incorrect to call this simply a "swine" flu. Analyses showed it’s a mixture of swine, human and avian viruses, according to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). Moreover, it is genetically different from the fully human H1N1 seasonal influenza virus that has been circulating globally for the past few years. Bottom line: the new flu virus contains DNA from avian, swine viruses (including elements from European and Asian viruses) and human viruses.

So did this curious mixture just develop naturally, out of the blue? Is it the result of inhumane farming practices, as the Humane Society of the United States (http://www.hsus.org/) has suggested, that exposes immune-compromised pigs to all sorts of animal and human feces?

Well, maybe. But let’s go back and look at the facts to see if any other scenario could be possible.

First of all, there’s the troublesome detail that the virus has elements that come from multiple continents. Then there’s the fact that true swine flu is only rarely transmissible to humans — this flu is spreading human-to-human, most likely because it contains DNA from human flu.

Could someone have deliberately mixed these viruses together? Is that possible? Absolutely.

Was this virus mixing being done artificially in the lab, or had it already been done? Yes.

Who was blending potentially viruses in labs? Were those horrible generic boogie men known to Americans far and wide as "terrorists" doing it? There’s no proof of bioterrorism at work here yet. However, there is evidence the United States government has been working on concocting new flu virus blends.

So could the hysteria-provoking, new swine flu have escaped from a lab? Or was it deliberately released as some kind of test?

But here’s the potential smoking gun, the facts that suggest a potential source of the pandemic could be CDC labs. And at the very least, this possibility deserves thoughtful examination and research.

The University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP) is hardly a place most Americans have heard about and, apparently, the Center’s web site has news the MSM isn’t familiar with, either. But information they published years ago has now taken on an urgent importance. CIDRAP, along with the Canadian newspaper Canadian Press (CP), revealed back in 2004 that the CDC was launching experiments designed to mix the H5N1 (avian) virus and human flu viruses. The goal was to find out how likely it was such a "reassortant" virus would emerge and just how dangerous it might be. Of course, it’s logical to wonder if they also worked with the addition of a swine flu virus, too.

Here’s some background from the five-year-old report by the University of Minnesota research center: "One of the worst fears of infectious disease experts is that the H5N1 avian influenza virus now circulating in parts of Asia will combine with a human-adapted flu virus to create a deadly new flu virus that could spread around the world. That could happen, scientists predict, if someone who is already infected with an ordinary flu virus contracts the avian virus at the same time. The avian virus has already caused at least 48 confirmed human illness cases in Asia, of which 35 have been fatal. The virus has shown little ability to spread from person to person, but the fear is that a hybrid could combine the killing power of the avian virus with the transmissibility of human flu viruses. Now, rather than waiting to see if nature spawns such a hybrid, US scientists are planning to try to breed one themselves — in the name of preparedness."

And CDC officials actually confirmed the government had plans for the research. The CIDRAP News folks did a great job covering this important issue, which was apparently mostly ignored by the MSM back in 2004, and CIDRAP News wrote to the CDC for information. This e-mail produced an answer from CDC spokesman David Daigle who admitted the CDC was working on the project in two ways. "One is to infect cells in a laboratory tissue culture with H5N1 and human flu viruses at the same time and then watch to see if they mix. For the human virus, investigators will use A (H3N2), the strain that has caused most human flu cases in recent years," the CIDRAP story stated. This co-infection approach was described as slow and labor-intensive. However, it was a way to produce a new virus that appeared to be closer to what develops in nature.

There was another, faster way CDC scientists could create the mix, too. Called reverse genetics, it involves piecing together a new virus with genes from the H5N1 and H3N2 viruses. Reverse genetics had already been used successfully to create H5N1 candidate vaccines in several laboratories, the CDC’s Daigle wrote. "Any viable viruses that emerge from these processes will be seeded into animals that are considered good models for testing how flu viruses behave in humans… The aim will be to observe whether the animals get sick and whether infected animals can infect others," he revealed in his e-mail.

We must ask more questions. Were those safety measures enough? Was the CDC creating or testing any of these virus mixes in or near Mexico? What other potentially deadly virus combinations has the US government created? Don’t US citizens, as taxpayers who funded these experiments, have a right to know? And for all the residents of planet earth faced with a potentially deadly global epidemic, isn’t it time for the truth?

  • Thu, Apr 30, 2009 - 06:39pm

    #153
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    Re: Mandatory Mass Vaccination

[quote=c1oudfire]

[quote=ccpetersmd]

[quote=c1oudfire]

I’m wondering how many people here would be opposed to mandatory mass vaccination, enforced by marshall law? 

[/quote]

With this, as with many things, I am in agreement with Ron Paul. The government doesn’t have any business practicing medicine. Updates and recommendations are fine, but I’d draw the line at forced vaccinations.

[/quote]

Yes!  Good to have you on board for this one, Dr. Peters!

[/quote]

In addition to the evidence that, lately, our government doesn’t seem to do anything well, I find it hard to imagine that a bunch of National Guard or Army regulars would be the best folks to be given the job of deciding whether an immunosuppressed cancer patient, or a person with a history of adverse vaccine reaction should be exempt from mandatory mass vaccination.  It’s easy for me to imagine a "vaccinate now, ask questions later" scenario.

  • Thu, Apr 30, 2009 - 06:49pm

    #155
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

[quote=DrKrbyLuv]

 

c1oudfire said:

In other threads, I have expressed the opinion that the ability to entertain ideas and speculate, without diving for the comfort of premature judgment, is essential to the ability to accurately perceive the world, and to appropriately respond to events.  In the spirit of doing so, I offer the following as information, to be added to that supplied by the MSM, for us to consider, without feeling the need to jump to any conclusions about its meaning or veracity, but simply to be added to our collective database.

 

Well said!  It’s a shame that our politicians, government officials and the MSM no longer hold any credibility – especially at a time like this when truth and candor are needed.  Something smells fishy and I don’t expect Joe Biden or the NBC to share the truth.  Sherry Baker, Health Science Editor for the Natural News asks:

Swine Flu Smoking Gun?  CDC was Combining Flu Viruses in 2004

Excerpts-. . . . . . .[/quote]

Hi, DrKrby;

Thanks for the post.  I especially liked it because it speculates about possible other explanations for the reports we are hearing, without jumping to conclusions, or overreaching.  This kind of background challenges us to ask more questions about the official stories we’re told.  I think that is always a good thing. 

  • Thu, Apr 30, 2009 - 07:00pm

    #156
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

Dr K,

I am not against the possibility of this being true but I am more of the opinion that this is a show.

On another thread, Davos said:

Re: Daily Digest – Apr 30

 "Oh with all eyes on the A(H1N1) puppet show I can’t wait to see what gets by."

I believe this is about getting more legislation through without (or very little) news coverage.

The 3.5 Tril budget got passed today with little more than the bat of an eye or much debate.  I wonder why that Senator just happened to change to a Democrat this week when one of the most important votes for a budget in our time happens.  Him changing over gave Obama’s people the chance to get this through quickly and under the radar.

"I love it when a plan comes together."

 

  • Thu, Apr 30, 2009 - 07:00pm

    #157
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

And so dies another thread…………

  • Thu, Apr 30, 2009 - 07:17pm

    #158
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    Premature Postmortem

[quote=Dogs_In_A_Pile]

And so dies another thread…………

[/quote]

Not if if doesn’t turn into a sarcastic insult-fest, DIAP.  The tenor of the posts, thus far, have been in the interest of data gathering, and speculation, largely by folks who have something to say.  A sarcastic tone contributes nothing toward that end. 

  • Thu, Apr 30, 2009 - 07:38pm

    #159
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    Re: Flu Scare as Dry Run for SHTF?

[quote=DrKrbyLuv]

 

c1oudfire said:

In other threads, I have expressed the opinion that the ability to entertain ideas and speculate, without diving for the comfort of premature judgment, is essential to the ability to accurately perceive the world, and to appropriately respond to events.  In the spirit of doing so, I offer the following as information, to be added to that supplied by the MSM, for us to consider, without feeling the need to jump to any conclusions about its meaning or veracity, but simply to be added to our collective database.

 

Well said!  It’s a shame that our politicians, government officials and the MSM no longer hold any credibility – especially at a time like this when truth and candor are needed.  Something smells fishy and I don’t expect Joe Biden or the NBC to share the truth.  Sherry Baker, Health Science Editor for the Natural News asks:

Swine Flu Smoking Gun?  CDC was Combining Flu Viruses in 2004

Excerpts-

Last week, when what is now called a "swine flu" was first reported to be infecting and killing some people in Mexico, health officials noted it was a strain of flu never before seen. In fact, it is technically incorrect to call this simply a "swine" flu. Analyses showed it’s a mixture of swine, human and avian viruses, according to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). Moreover, it is genetically different from the fully human H1N1 seasonal influenza virus that has been circulating globally for the past few years. Bottom line: the new flu virus contains DNA from avian, swine viruses (including elements from European and Asian viruses) and human viruses.

So did this curious mixture just develop naturally, out of the blue? Is it the result of inhumane farming practices, as the Humane Society of the United States (http://www.hsus.org/) has suggested, that exposes immune-compromised pigs to all sorts of animal and human feces?

Well, maybe. But let’s go back and look at the facts to see if any other scenario could be possible.

First of all, there’s the troublesome detail that the virus has elements that come from multiple continents. Then there’s the fact that true swine flu is only rarely transmissible to humans — this flu is spreading human-to-human, most likely because it contains DNA from human flu.

Could someone have deliberately mixed these viruses together? Is that possible? Absolutely.

Was this virus mixing being done artificially in the lab, or had it already been done? Yes.

Who was blending potentially viruses in labs? Were those horrible generic boogie men known to Americans far and wide as "terrorists" doing it? There’s no proof of bioterrorism at work here yet. However, there is evidence the United States government has been working on concocting new flu virus blends.

So could the hysteria-provoking, new swine flu have escaped from a lab? Or was it deliberately released as some kind of test?

But here’s the potential smoking gun, the facts that suggest a potential source of the pandemic could be CDC labs. And at the very least, this possibility deserves thoughtful examination and research.

The University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP) is hardly a place most Americans have heard about and, apparently, the Center’s web site has news the MSM isn’t familiar with, either. But information they published years ago has now taken on an urgent importance. CIDRAP, along with the Canadian newspaper Canadian Press (CP), revealed back in 2004 that the CDC was launching experiments designed to mix the H5N1 (avian) virus and human flu viruses. The goal was to find out how likely it was such a "reassortant" virus would emerge and just how dangerous it might be. Of course, it’s logical to wonder if they also worked with the addition of a swine flu virus, too.

Here’s some background from the five-year-old report by the University of Minnesota research center: "One of the worst fears of infectious disease experts is that the H5N1 avian influenza virus now circulating in parts of Asia will combine with a human-adapted flu virus to create a deadly new flu virus that could spread around the world. That could happen, scientists predict, if someone who is already infected with an ordinary flu virus contracts the avian virus at the same time. The avian virus has already caused at least 48 confirmed human illness cases in Asia, of which 35 have been fatal. The virus has shown little ability to spread from person to person, but the fear is that a hybrid could combine the killing power of the avian virus with the transmissibility of human flu viruses. Now, rather than waiting to see if nature spawns such a hybrid, US scientists are planning to try to breed one themselves — in the name of preparedness."

And CDC officials actually confirmed the government had plans for the research. The CIDRAP News folks did a great job covering this important issue, which was apparently mostly ignored by the MSM back in 2004, and CIDRAP News wrote to the CDC for information. This e-mail produced an answer from CDC spokesman David Daigle who admitted the CDC was working on the project in two ways. "One is to infect cells in a laboratory tissue culture with H5N1 and human flu viruses at the same time and then watch to see if they mix. For the human virus, investigators will use A (H3N2), the strain that has caused most human flu cases in recent years," the CIDRAP story stated. This co-infection approach was described as slow and labor-intensive. However, it was a way to produce a new virus that appeared to be closer to what develops in nature.

There was another, faster way CDC scientists could create the mix, too. Called reverse genetics, it involves piecing together a new virus with genes from the H5N1 and H3N2 viruses. Reverse genetics had already been used successfully to create H5N1 candidate vaccines in several laboratories, the CDC’s Daigle wrote. "Any viable viruses that emerge from these processes will be seeded into animals that are considered good models for testing how flu viruses behave in humans… The aim will be to observe whether the animals get sick and whether infected animals can infect others," he revealed in his e-mail.

We must ask more questions. Were those safety measures enough? Was the CDC creating or testing any of these virus mixes in or near Mexico? What other potentially deadly virus combinations has the US government created? Don’t US citizens, as taxpayers who funded these experiments, have a right to know? And for all the residents of planet earth faced with a potentially deadly global epidemic, isn’t it time for the truth?

[/quote]

Everything stated is either true, or at least possible. But, I think it is prudent to remember that it is at least equally possible (in my view, much more probable) that this strain developed naturally.

All viruses, including influenza viruses, are particularly well known for their natural ability to mutate, exchange genomic material with other viruses, etc. In fact, that is one of the explanations for why they can continue to survive. Otherwise, for most viruses, we would all eventually become infected, develop an immunity, and that would be it for that particular virus.

The other factor that helps promote a virus’ survival is the availability of more than one host, such as pigs for "swine flu" and birds for "avian flu". Smallpox, which was an isolated human virus, was relatively easily eradicated once effective vaccines were made widely available, thanks to the lack of an animal host in which the virus could "hide", and potentially mutate. Polio is likely to follow a similar course, as it has no animal host, either.

  • Thu, Apr 30, 2009 - 07:50pm

    #160
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    1918 Influenza Pandemic

This is a very nicely done site regarding the 1918 pandemic:

http://1918.pandemicflu.gov/index.htm 

An excerpt:

September 1918

“This epidemic started about four weeks ago, and has developed so rapidly that the camp is demoralized and all ordinary work is held up till it has passed….These men start with what appears to be an ordinary attack of LaGrippe or Influenza, and when brought to the Hosp. they very rapidly develop the most viscous type of Pneumonia that has ever been seen. Two hours after admission they have the Mahogany spots over the cheek bones, and a few hours later you can begin to see the Cyanosis extending from their ears and spreading all over the face, until it is hard to distinguish the coloured men from the white. It is only a matter of a few hours then until death comes, and it is simply a struggle for air until they suffocate. It is horrible. One can stand it to see one, two or twenty men die, but to see these poor devils dropping like flies sort of gets on your nerves. We have been averaging about 100 deaths per day, and still keeping it up. There is no doubt in my mind that there is a new mixed infection here, but what I don’t know.”

A physician stationed at Fort Devens outside Boston, late September, 1918

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