Definitive Post-Oil Thread

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  • Tue, Mar 01, 2011 - 04:41pm

    #31

    Ready

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    timeframe.. oh my

[quote=Rihter]

Aaron and Ready –

Are we brainstorming on hobbyist ideas for personal vehicles, or are we trying to paint a picture of a post-oil world where oil products aren’t being manufactured or produced on any affordable mainstream scale?

[/quote]

Not to speak for Aaron, but I personally don’t have a crystal ball. Many of the timeframes I put on a potential collapse can only be looked at with a chuckle since I was soooo very wrong. One quick example – I was worried at the end of 2009 about extending my customers a 30 day credit line on invoices because I was waiting for some kind of banking holiday or other economic calamity to prevent payment. I underestimated the power of the Fed to influence markets and the economy. Now I don’t try to expect anything, rather plan for everything. Impossible for sure, so the best you can do is sew flexibility into your life.

The answer to your question above, at least for me, is yes and yes. I would also add that I am planning for an extended period of pain where gas is affordable, but at the expense of other things. Say $4 – $6 range for a year.  I am also planning for the repeat of 2008, where the price of oil goes very high, only to hurt the economy and drop back down to $30bbl.

For just about any scenario you can imagine, energy independence (at least some energy independence) cannot be viewed as a bad thing, at least in my mind.

Here’s the challenge – provide any scenario (from Ghawar 2 is discovered in Kansas to a repeat of the ’70s oil shock) in which it does not make sense to try and provide for yourself outside the normal delivery channels, and I’ll debate that and perhaps even learn something valuable. To me, the rehearsed, canned answer of biofuels make no sense is not correct in my case, and I would say that is true in many other folks cases as well.

I will further state that I have not arrived at this standpoint easily or without some flip flops. The proof is in the pudding, actually doing it. People like Robie get it because he sees it with his own, well cared for eyes.

  • Tue, Mar 01, 2011 - 07:05pm

    #32

    Aaron M

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    RE: Rihter

As Roger said, I’m not looking at a rigid timeline, but rather the process itself.

Maybe it’d be best to think of it like this:
Let’s say we’re living 200 years from now – similar to how we look back on resource depletion in the Early American Colonization of the West…

What things could we do (have done, for the exercise) to make the transition from plenty of oil to oil scarcity as productive as possible without wasting resources?

So, like NOT killing off millions of bison – which we can equate to the rampant abuse of fossil fuels, we can start subbing out by getting into vehicles that do not require gasoline. We can ride bikes (which I for one think are significantly better than horses, for the most part).

My main goals are:
a. Consistency across categories – I like Biodiesel, because I can potentially use it in Trucks, Generators, tractors and make it from waste products. This gives it a tremendous advantage over things like Ethanol, which I view as a total bust.

b. Feasibility – I want to avoid the “unlimited resources” conundrum – a person on a budget should realistically be able to set these goals and achieve them incrimentally.

c. The solutions should be things that function equally well now (in contemporary western society) as they would in a “Post-Oil” society. To elaborate on “post oil”, let’s not assume it’s all gone, just scarce and expensive, as is the most likely outcome.

d. The discussion should proceed with the understanding that we all can agree that less consumption is generally a given. 

I’m not talking about having a diesel so I can trapse all over hell and half of Texas while everyone else is bemoaning their lack of mobility. I view it as a security issue, more than anything. It can be strategically advantageous to have a vehicle that relies on energy that you can produce yourself, even if not in great quantity.

So as far as what constitutes “the interim” – we’re in it. 
It may end next week, it may take 100 years – but what can we do now to benefit ourselves presently and in the future.
An analogous discussion might be like Thc0655’s recent thread on identifying threats and addressing them systematically, based on your particular situation.

Cheers,

Aaron 

  • Wed, Mar 02, 2011 - 07:15am

    #33

    Dutch John

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    Not biodiesel

I would not go for biodiesel, since you also need methanol. And it has a bad EROI. Better to adapt the hardware and use the crude (bio)oil. Big problem can be filtration. You need reusable filters.

Then there is the place you live. Can you grow canola? Or do you live in a forest? Then I would take wood and convert a petrol car. In a sunny desert solar power could be the best option. For all options count that you need to take a truck, car, tractor, generator that is very common.

Regards, DJ

  • Wed, Mar 02, 2011 - 10:48am

    #34

    elsinga

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    In the Netherlands in WW2,

In the Netherlands in WW2, they ran cars on gassed wood. The same process as is now considered “green” energy. This however requires cars to be around and working. 😉

I think the best way to use less oil is to use as much renewable enrgy as possible: sun, wind, water, fast growing plants/trees. And use the energy as locally as possible, to avoid losses in transport.

So: solar panels on your house to generate energy, use that energy for a pump that uses the warmth of the earth to heat your home (which ofcourse is properly insulated) and for any electric stuff you have lying around. Use the most efficient means of transport to get to where you need to be: walk, bike, car, train, whatever.

  • Wed, Mar 02, 2011 - 01:17pm

    #35

    stoneman

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    Cars running on wood gas

Cars/trucks  running on “wood gas” have been around since at least the great depression.  I personally saw them in operation in North Korea on a recent visit (they have almost no oil to speak of – what few resources there are go to the military).  It works by heating/burning wood in a furnace, in for example the flat bed of a truck, under low oxygen and the heat decomposes the wood and  drives off volatile chemicals that can burn somewhat akin to coal or natural gas. This is definitely a very do it yourself proposition. Unfortunately there is little power (although in the absence of other fuel that may be acceptable) but the main problem is the concentrated production of carbon monoxide. This is a health hazard and grave risk. Thus you really need to know what you are doing and take proper precautions to avoid getting sick, hurt or even killed.

  • Wed, Mar 02, 2011 - 01:48pm

    #36

    Ready

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    Why not?

[quote=Dutch John]

I would not go for biodiesel, since you also need methanol. And it has a bad EROI. Better to adapt the hardware and use the crude (bio)oil. Big problem can be filtration. You need reusable filters.

Then there is the place you live. Can you grow canola? Or do you live in a forest? Then I would take wood and convert a petrol car. In a sunny desert solar power could be the best option. For all options count that you need to take a truck, car, tractor, generator that is very common.

Regards, DJ

[/quote]

  • Wed, Mar 02, 2011 - 01:50pm

    #37

    Ready

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    Well, I tried to post a

Well, I tried to post a reply to DJ, but the site zapped it when I sent it because I didn’t put a title. Figures.

 

I spent a lot of time on that which I don;t have right now to replicate. Sorry.

  • Thu, Sep 29, 2011 - 02:03pm

    #38
    SPAM_producingoil

    SPAM_producingoil

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    FOR SALE:Biodiesel Oil Per Metric Ton Cost :$400USD

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Property Test Method Limits
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Contact Address
Rivers Vegetable Oil Company Limited
Mr Morgan Rosler
Tel: +234-81-03879651,
Fax: +234-81-03879651,
Email: [email protected]

  • Thu, Feb 16, 2012 - 03:27pm

    #39
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Sell Refined Sunflower Oil

 


VEGETABLE OIL COMP.

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RBD Palm Oil for ……$360usd Per Metric ton

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Sessame Oil for……$240usd Per Metric ton

Jatropha Oil for …..$500usd Per Metric ton

Do contact Mr Gilbert Woo.
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Viewing 9 posts - 31 through 39 (of 39 total)

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