Definitive Post-Oil Thread

Login or register to post comments Last Post 6719 reads   39 posts
Viewing 10 posts - 21 through 30 (of 39 total)
  • Mon, Feb 28, 2011 - 06:17pm

    #21

    Ready

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 30 2008

    Posts: 150

    count placeholder0

    Aaron, I must be daft.For

Aaron, I must be daft.

For the last 2 years I haven’t paid for fuel. Or electricity. Or water. Or a significant portion of my food. I think you get the picture.

At least I have saved enough money to go buy a mule  when (if) it becomes necessary.

 

This always seems to happen on these types of threads. Many people tend to jump right from today to Mad Max in terms of what is going to happen with oil in the future. Look back at some old thread here or elsewhere, and you will see what I mean. If I had followed their logic and advice, I’d be much poorer today.

No one can tell what the future will bring and when. Having the skills to fend for yourself is a cornerstone of this site. Alternative energy sources is just one part of a whole package.

  • Mon, Feb 28, 2011 - 06:36pm

    #22

    xraymike79

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2008

    Posts: 804

    count placeholder0

    Calculations

[quote=robie robinson]

15 acres, is what i came up with several years ago. Our farm,465acres would require 15acres of BOSS to [produce the fuel to make her go. This fuel would bee for several tractors, 4 hours of el;ectricity/day and home heat. The cake residue would be animal feed.

not efficient,not worth it,gotta milk its early can’t type with cold hands robie 

[/quote]

That’s interesting. How did you calculate to get the 15 acres?

  • Mon, Feb 28, 2011 - 07:10pm

    #23
    robie robinson

    robie robinson

    Status Gold Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 25 2009

    Posts: 925

    count placeholder0

    Xray mike,Wasn’t too

Xray mike,

Wasn’t too difficult. A pessimistic yield for black oil sunflowers/acre in southcentral VA. The yield from an 5ton screw press(didn’t figure in a heated press at the time so it would be a better yield). Our avrage anual consumtion i took a pessimistic approach on that as well,for ag diesel.

robie

ps.  BOSS was chosen for its yield and the fatty acid profile was suitable for human consumption as well. In the end, we’re mostly graziers and have whittled our row crop acreage to less than 100 acres. was bit by the Allen Nation(editor of The Stockmans Grassfarmer) bug of grass finishing beeves. Grass truly is the “forgiveness of nature”,and opening gates to move ruminants will be more sustainable(for myself in old age) and “Big Mama”,planet earth. 

 

  • Mon, Feb 28, 2011 - 09:27pm

    #24

    Aaron M

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 22 2008

    Posts: 790

    count placeholder0

    Ready, You’ve hit on the key

Ready,

You’ve hit on the key tone that I’m driving at. 

General,

Obviously, it’s cool to speculate on what happen to our great grand-children, but I’m more concerned about the interim – where we all still live – than the “end” result.

Also, I’m seeing a lot of intellectual orthodoxy here – ironically from many of the same folks who preach steering clear of the mainstream.

Some diesel engines will run on nearly anything. Shine, Kerosene, BD – and I’m sure a lot of things I don’t know of. 
Let’s talk more about that.
Hard fact – Mobility is a huge advantage in any scenario, and should be considered as a part of the overall survival package as Ready already said.

I’d like to hear more on how to make it practical and possible, because quite frankly, it seems foolish to commit ourselves to a life of 1730’s.
Forget reflective equilibrium setting us back 300 years – it’ll be 120 at the most.
We’ve overproduced several generations worth of equipment for automobiles (not to mention most other gizmos) and it’d be crazy not to think of scavenging and technical improvisation as a viable approach.

Infrastructure is still in place – why assume it won’t ultimately be used as those with an extra dose of ingenuity “find a way”? 

Anyone who knows Ready knows exactly what I’m talkin’ about 😀

Cheers,

Aaron 

  • Mon, Feb 28, 2011 - 09:45pm

    #25

    Aaron M

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 22 2008

    Posts: 790

    count placeholder0

    Redefining Agriculture

Another issue is we are stuck defining agriculture a-culturally.

Don’t get me wrong – there is nothing wrong with lots of open ground with lots of crops – but there are other ways of doing things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV9CCxdkOng

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KMkmgolAj6o

If we apply the same limberness of mind to transportation, I think we can achieve something similar to what we can with alternative energies.
It’s not going to allow us to live like we do now, at our present rates of consumption, but it will preclude us from having to ride mules.
Cause keeping draft animals is about as unrealistic for most people as stilling BD after oil.

Cheers,

Aaron 

  • Mon, Feb 28, 2011 - 10:05pm

    #26

    Ready

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 30 2008

    Posts: 150

    count placeholder0

    yes, I can burn it

Aaron,

Some things have changed since you stopped by my farm. For one, I have a different truck (more tolerant of multiple fuels) and a system called the VegiStroke that allows me to burn just about anything in my truck from Petrolem diesel to straight veggi oil to waste veggi oil to chicken schidtt (just kidding). But seriously, if Mad Max happened tomorow, I could go around to all the gassers, relieve them of their engine oil and transmission fluid, and burn it like it was diesel. Well, after I ran out of everything else, which would take a very long time…

The ability to be flexible is key, don’t you think? People with options and open minds will fare the best in most futures I can imagine.

Cheers,

R

  • Tue, Mar 01, 2011 - 02:23am

    #27
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 460

    count placeholder0

    I knew there was a downside

I knew there was a downside to hybrids.

  • Tue, Mar 01, 2011 - 02:30am

    #28
    aggrivated

    aggrivated

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 22 2010

    Posts: 460

    count placeholder0

    post peak roads

it has always been a very interesting bit of trivia that the first paved US highway was done due to the lobbying of the League of American Wheelmen,  an early and still existing association of bicyclists. 

Then later when the auto became more prevalent,  ‘wars’ between horse lovers and car lovers over plowing and clearing frozen roads in winter were common in rural northern climes.  It’s much easier to convert a wagon to a sled than it is to clear a road.

It makes you wonder what our interstate system will look like after 5 years of low to no road taxes.  Nature has a way of taking over very quickly.

  • Tue, Mar 01, 2011 - 01:46pm

    #29
    Rihter

    Rihter

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Dec 27 2010

    Posts: 47

    count placeholder0

    Define interim please

[quote=Aaron Moyer]

Ready,

You’ve hit on the key tone that I’m driving at. 

General,

Obviously, it’s cool to speculate on what happen to our great grand-children, but I’m more concerned about the interim – where we all still live – than the “end” result.

Also, I’m seeing a lot of intellectual orthodoxy here – ironically from many of the same folks who preach steering clear of the mainstream.

Some diesel engines will run on nearly anything. Shine, Kerosene, BD – and I’m sure a lot of things I don’t know of. 
Let’s talk more about that.
Hard fact – Mobility is a huge advantage in any scenario, and should be considered as a part of the overall survival package as Ready already said.

I’d like to hear more on how to make it practical and possible, because quite frankly, it seems foolish to commit ourselves to a life of 1730’s.
Forget reflective equilibrium setting us back 300 years – it’ll be 120 at the most.
We’ve overproduced several generations worth of equipment for automobiles (not to mention most other gizmos) and it’d be crazy not to think of scavenging and technical improvisation as a viable approach.

Infrastructure is still in place – why assume it won’t ultimately be used as those with an extra dose of ingenuity “find a way”

Anyone who knows Ready knows exactly what I’m talkin’ about 😀

Cheers,

Aaron 

[/quote]

Aaron and Ready –

I think I’m missing the point of the thread. It would help me if you put a number on the period of time you consider interim. 5 years, 10, 20?

Are we brainstorming on hobbyist ideas for personal vehicles, or are we trying to paint a picture of a post-oil world where oil products aren’t being manufactured or produced on any affordable mainstream scale?

I don’t think John Howe’s Solar Car is “Mad Max” in any way. He scavenged parts of existing vehicles and made them work without liquid fuels.

Marcin Jabukowski at Openfarmtech.org built a tractor out of scavenged parts and open sourced the design.

In a post-oil world I have a hard time imagining how roads will be maintained in any large scale fashion. Or how will replacement tires be manufactured? Then the economic domino effect happens. If those thing aren’t common, then ingenuity comes into play. How do we make it work if the traditional methods aren’t available.

I think there will be balance of expensive gasoline, limited bio-diesel, natural gas, and electric battery powered vehicles, and yes the the ox driven cart will make a comeback. I don’t think there will be highways  full of commuter vehicles even 10 years from now.

Is this in line with the theme of the thread?

  • Tue, Mar 01, 2011 - 01:48pm

    #30

    JAG

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Oct 26 2008

    Posts: 243

    count placeholder0

    tracking post

tracking post

Viewing 10 posts - 21 through 30 (of 39 total)

Login or Register to post comments