Defining the ‘O-Generation’

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  • Tue, Feb 25, 2014 - 12:09am

    #70

    Poet

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    Devil’s Advocate…

Taken to its logical conclusion… Couldn't you say the same to people about reproduction, since we've long ago reached overshoot

You could be criticizing those who are having children. After all, every child brought into this world is another competing claim on resources – and the losers are the impoverished, malnourished, and sick. They die. This includes not just humans, but also wild animals, rare creatures going extinct, and habitat.

Poet

[quote=agitating prop]If you have enough money to last you the rest of your life…and then some — and you are competing in the labor market against people who need the same job to survive, you are not behaving in an even handed, fair manner. If you want to do something rewarding and fulfilling, do something that doesn't subtract from the lives of others.[/quote]

  • Tue, Feb 25, 2014 - 01:14am

    #72

    Nervous Nelly

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    Good points Wildlife Tracker

You wrote:

So other than food, and the production of goods. Starting a business is not a good idea. Also, most of the businesses I listed are not really something that can be done as a full-time work because we are still too far in this current paradigm. 

Isn't this the dilemma of our time ?

I love your  idea below….Merino Sheep.

1) Here in New England we need to bring back the wool industry. Wool fiber is a very niche product today that will be essential in the future. Starting a side business in sheep raising, wool processing and spinning, to the production of clothing could pay off in the future as the business will expand as economies get more local.

and that one

8) Naturalist/wilderness/survival/traditional agriculture/permaculture/ecology focused training schools are important to start building community resilience and to help provide individuals will the skills need to make it in the next paradigm.

 

Any business where they repair tools that repair or make things.

I have this place where I get my sewing machine (45 years old Singer)tuned and repaired. He said his business was booming. One of the reasons is people are buying old vintage machines, getting them repaired or holding on to the ones they have. They were made to last. I asked him if he wanted to sell his business ….he laughed.

I would like to make a 3-5 year transition. Slowly working up a side business like you just wrote.  Something I 'd like doing. I think you're right.

Thanks for the brain storming.

I hope you get your piece of land. 

NN 

  • Tue, Feb 25, 2014 - 02:13am

    #73
    Denny Johnson

    Denny Johnson

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    No devil’s advocate

[quote=Poet]

Taken to its logical conclusion… Couldn't you say the same to people about reproduction, since we've long ago reached overshoot

You could be criticizing those who are having children.

[/quote]

Sure, Poet, it seems that the same could be said about reproduction, not necessarily a criticism, but something to think about for those considering having kids. You make a compelling argument, everything we consume causes harm to other living beings:

After all, every child brought into this world is another competing claim on resources – and the losers are the impoverished, malnourished, and sick. They die. This includes not just humans, but also wild animals, rare creatures going extinct, and habitat.

There is nothing inherently noble about reproduction, it just kinda happens.

  • Tue, Feb 25, 2014 - 04:33am

    #74

    Sterling Cornaby

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    land land land

Thanks for the advice.  I am starting my second 'heavy' year into gardening (on my 1/5 acre lot), with 6 fruit trees in the front yard (west side), two 'larger' cherry trees on the north side, and  about 250 square feet of "square foot gardens" in the back, the east side.  I am putting in raspberries and blackberries in as bushes in front of my house, as edible landscaping.  I got a big list of 'too do's' ; I will spend some time looking into vinyl gutters for the south side of my house, which is mostly rocks and concrete.

One of the guys that I helped get a job rents a place where he has a small plot he and his wife have worked on.  We do discuss gardening from time to time.  This is a great time of year to bring up a co-op idea.  Thank you for kick starting my mind on a few ideas I should fleshed out.

  • Tue, Feb 25, 2014 - 04:56am

    #75

    Sterling Cornaby

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    agitating prop

[quote=agitating prop]

[quote=Sterling Cornaby]

I am an Xer,

My father is a farmer baby-boomer round-up spraying GMO crop growing machine. He has no sympathy for the younger generations; they need to make their way like ‘he’ did. No sympathy. A 1-2 acre garden (my idea) is incongruent with his, so it’s not happening on his land. “Make your own way!” he says. “Get your own 20-40 acre farm scrub land at… a cool $0.5 to $1 million!?!?”. I cannot fund this baby-boomer delusion. I feel really sorry for my 29 year old millennial brother who works for my father who refers to my brother as an “employee”.

[/quote]

 

Sterling,

 

Good luck to you and I applaud you for trying your best to help others in a substantial way!

Your father, like so many older individuals, see themselves as the sole authors of their own destinies, beholden to nothing and nobody. They are the rugged individualists, subduing nature, triumphing over adversity, working their fingers to the bone–dammit. They don't credit luck, being born at just the right time or factors like access to credit, for their success. 

They're, fooling themselves while feeding their narcissism. I don't mean to insult your father, and this might not necessarily apply to him, but I  put the maturity level of people who like to flatter themselves, in this way, at about 17 years of age. 

Those who flatter themselves, AT THE EXPENSE of others,  take it a step further. I don't think they have matured emotionally,  beyond early  childhood. 

 

Trying to reason with individuals who are fundamentally immature and have a personal stake, in terms of ego, in sticking to their point of view is a pointless effort. 

[/quote]

 

Wow, you nailed him, he does have a 17 year old attitude about a bunch of stuff.  To be fair, he does have a number of good qualities, but he sure can be a hardhead, just like a 17 year old kid. 

  • Tue, Feb 25, 2014 - 05:59pm

    #76
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    How rare?

Exomatosis,

Whether we like it or not, in terms of working within the corporatocracy, many of us are redundant. If somebody has saved enough or is deriving some income from passive sources AND is able to draw social security, why wouldn't they back off a bit?  I don't think this situation is a rarity. 

Within the professions I appreciate there may be a shortage of newly minted surgeons coming down the pike, what with the cost and duration of obtaining that skill set. 

And as you say, mechanics improve with age, too — up to a point. But very few mechanics are so indispensable that they have to keep flinging wrenches past retirement age. Speaking of heavy metal, I know my brain isn't operating at peak capacity at my age. I'm rusting.

Studies have shown that most people are at their peak, in terms of intellect AND wisdom, in their late forties. Unless it's absolutely necessary to remain in the labor force, displacing people who are, quite frankly, faster, brighter, less rigid, it seems kind of selfish to deprive them of their rightful place while they still may have kids at home. 

Problem with dinosaurs is they have to know that they are destined for the tar pits unless they hunker down, draw into their shells and coexist with mammals–like turtles. 

I'm proud to be a human turtle. 

 

 

 

  • Tue, Feb 25, 2014 - 06:10pm

    #77
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Poet wrote:Taken to its

[quote=Poet]

Taken to its logical conclusion… Couldn't you say the same to people about reproduction, since we've long ago reached overshoot

You could be criticizing those who are having children. After all, every child brought into this world is another competing claim on resources – and the losers are the impoverished, malnourished, and sick. They die. This includes not just humans, but also wild animals, rare creatures going extinct, and habitat.

Poet

[quote=agitating prop]If you have enough money to last you the rest of your life…and then some — and you are competing in the labor market against people who need the same job to survive, you are not behaving in an even handed, fair manner. If you want to do something rewarding and fulfilling, do something that doesn't subtract from the lives of others.[/quote]

[/quote]

Hi Poet, 

I actually did make the same point about reproduction, citing China and Japan as two societies who aren't replacing their current population through childbirth. Economists throw up their hands in despair, failing to acknowledge that rather than being a problem, diminishing populations and diminishing resources are a better supply and demand fit.

 

 The fact that economists have this weird reaction to reality, either reflects that they believe the myth of an ever enlarging economic and jobs pie with a slice available for everybody —  or they have internalized the Ponzi nature of eternal debt accumulation that late cancer stage capitalism requires. 

 

  • Tue, Feb 25, 2014 - 07:03pm

    #78
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Sterling Cornaby

[quote=Sterling Cornaby]

[quote=agitating prop]

[quote=Sterling Cornaby]

I am an Xer,

My father is a farmer baby-boomer round-up spraying GMO crop growing machine. He has no sympathy for the younger generations; they need to make their way like ‘he’ did. No sympathy. A 1-2 acre garden (my idea) is incongruent with his, so it’s not happening on his land. “Make your own way!” he says. “Get your own 20-40 acre farm scrub land at… a cool $0.5 to $1 million!?!?”. I cannot fund this baby-boomer delusion. I feel really sorry for my 29 year old millennial brother who works for my father who refers to my brother as an “employee”.

[/quote]

 

Sterling,

 

Good luck to you and I applaud you for trying your best to help others in a substantial way!

Your father, like so many older individuals, see themselves as the sole authors of their own destinies, beholden to nothing and nobody. They are the rugged individualists, subduing nature, triumphing over adversity, working their fingers to the bone–dammit. They don't credit luck, being born at just the right time or factors like access to credit, for their success. 

They're, fooling themselves while feeding their narcissism. I don't mean to insult your father, and this might not necessarily apply to him, but I  put the maturity level of people who like to flatter themselves, in this way, at about 17 years of age. 

Those who flatter themselves, AT THE EXPENSE of others,  take it a step further. I don't think they have matured emotionally,  beyond early  childhood. 

 

Trying to reason with individuals who are fundamentally immature and have a personal stake, in terms of ego, in sticking to their point of view is a pointless effort. 

[/quote]

 

Wow, you nailed him, he does have a 17 year old attitude about a bunch of stuff.  To be fair, he does have a number of good qualities, but he sure can be a hardhead, just like a 17 year old kid. 

[/quote]

 

Yes, it dawns slowly. One day we are arguing with a quirky older man who can't get his head around change.  Then we have the epiphany.   Behind that stubborn, craggy exterior, is a guy with a bad mullet,  playing air guitar, desperately trying to get out!

  • Wed, Feb 26, 2014 - 01:28am

    #79
    exomatosis

    exomatosis

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    agitating prop

[quote=agitating prop]

Exomatosis,

Whether we like it or not, in terms of working within the corporatocracy, many of us are redundant.

Many may be redundant in a corporate job role but not necessarily redundant in any job role.

If somebody has saved enough or is deriving some income from passive sources AND is able to draw social security, why wouldn't they back off a bit?

I think it should be up to the individual.  If they can serve, whether they're 18 or 80, why not?  In many job situations, there's no evidence that an individual continuing to work is depriving someone else of their right or opportunity to work. 

I don't think this situation is a rarity. 

You're addressing a different rarity than the one I mentioned.  Apples and oranges.

Within the professions I appreciate there may be a shortage of newly minted surgeons coming down the pike, what with the cost and duration of obtaining that skill set. 

And as you say, mechanics improve with age, too — up to a point. But very few mechanics are so indispensable that they have to keep flinging wrenches past retirement age.

It's not that they have to.  It's that they may want to and others may want their service.  For example, I really like my dentist and I hope he never retires.  He keeps up on the latest developments, has excellent tactile and manual skills, has very reasonable charges, and is a very pleasant person.  I've had two unpleasant experiences with young dentists in the past who were obviously more interested in paying off their loans for dental school than in serving their clientele.

Speaking of heavy metal, I know my brain isn't operating at peak capacity at my age. I'm rusting.

Again, these capacities vary from individual to individual.  There are more individuals than ever experiencing dementia in their 50s yet there are 80 year olds who are sharp as a tack. 

Studies have shown that most people are at their peak, in terms of intellect AND wisdom, in their late forties.

Can you cite these studies?  Especially with regards to wisdom, I know of no study that would confirm what you say.  In fact, this particular study says the exact opposite.

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/110823_wisdom.htm

Unless it's absolutely necessary to remain in the labor force, displacing people who are, quite frankly, faster, brighter, less rigid, it seems kind of selfish to deprive them of their rightful place while they still may have kids at home. 

They're probably faster but not necessarily brighter (depending upon how you define "bright").  In fact, there's significant indication of a dumbing down of succeeding generations (fluoride exposure, perchlorate exposure, heavy metal contamination, aspartame exposure, electronic media exposure, deteriorating educational systems, etc.).  They may be less rigid (and then, again, they may not be, depending upon their personality type).  They are definitely less experienced and often have less wisdom and accrued knowledge.  Rather than one supplanting the other, why not have the two work together and complement one another's strengths and weaknesses?  And I really don't think selfishness has anything to do with it.  It's equally selfish to say someone has to step down to make room for me and that I have a right to their place.  Also, I know of no economic study which says there is a definable upper limit to the number of potential jobs available.    

Problem with dinosaurs is they have to know that they are destined for the tar pits unless they hunker down, draw into their shells and coexist with mammals–like turtles.

I'm not sure what dinosaurs have to do with this discussion, especially given that reptilian brains are very different than mammalian brains and we should be using our human mammalian brains and not functioning with our reptilian brains. It's that reptilian brain function that has created many of the problems we're facing.

I'm proud to be a human turtle.

I'm simply a human, not proud, but glad to just be.

 

 

 

[/quote]

  • Wed, Feb 26, 2014 - 08:01pm

    #80
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Hi Exomatosis,I can’t answer

Hi Exomatosis,

I can't answer everything you have written in response to my point of view. Sorry.

 

You made some good specific points but nothing that addressed the general gist of my posts. You mention fluoride and other environmental factors that you figure have dumbed down younger people. I could mention just as many, like access to the Internet, which may have an opposite and therefore neutralizing effect.  People who grew up with the internet are much more savvy when it comes to associative thinking, pattern recognition and analytical skills that arise more out of the realm of impression than out of the arena of sequential logic.  Plus, younger generations have not been exposed to pesticides like DDT, like 'we' were.  I am assuming you are roughly my age or of my generation.  

 

I do think that in a world where contraction is required, you pretty much have an emergency situation and a jobs crisis that should preclude boomers gazing at their navels, with a "what color is my parachute?" attitude, when they are well past their prime AND don't need the money. Frankly, it seems kind of immature to me.  

Interesting that you mention dentistry. The only dentist practising in my area is in his late sixties and is considered by some of his former patients to be almost a hazard,  as he insists on working when he should be retired.  He has had major health problems that have to affect his manual dexterity and his judgement. 

He is trying to sell his practice at the present time but won't sell it to "just anybody".  The reason stated is because he wants the next dentist to deliver just as high a standard of care as he has always delivered. That is a direct quote and underlines the other generalization I made. He's past peak self awareness.

 

His best before date is clearly stamped all over his slipshod root canals, but he doesn't see it. Why?  The dude is old and not well  —  like a lot of people his age. We start to acquire all sorts of minor and major maladies as we age. Wisdom is understanding this and confronting reality. We're not as sharp and no matter how many crossword puzzles we do, nothing changes this general pattern. 

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