Coronavirus: Medicinals, Herbals and Supplements Megathread

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  • Mon, Feb 17, 2020 - 10:19am



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    Coronavirus: Medicinals, Herbals and Supplements Megathread

The compilations of comments to Chris Martenson’s videos has been updated to include those from 1/23/2020 to 3/9/2020 and have been moved to this dedicated site:

Peak Prosperity Covid19 Library of Files

You can find all three of the megathreads as we are calling them, there on the first page.

In addition, we are beginning to go through those earlier compilations and collect them into subject specific mini-threads. You can see these by clicking on the Blog link at the top of the page.

In addition, you can receive these files as a download by sending me a PM (click the small link in the top right of this post). Please include your email.

Feel free to ask questions about these subjects either here on Peak Prosperity, or in the comments on the other site.

  • Mon, Feb 17, 2020 - 08:34pm



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    Thank you

Dtrammel thanks for the rundown!  This much tidier than my hodgepodge of PP cut and paste that is now around 21 pages.  I’m going print this out for my binder.

FWIW, Here’s my elderberry-rum-honey syrup from tincture:

-One cup of dried Elderberries from

– One cup of Double-E Immune Boosting Tea blend from

Toss berries and tea in 1-quart mason jar, top with cheap rum.  Shake periodically for a 1-2 weeks.  Toss in a food processor for 30 seconds.  Pour into colander and let sit for 15 mins,  then strain it into a bottle.  Add 1/3 Honey, and shake several times throughout the day until the honey finally blends into the rum mix.  1-2 ounce shots a couple times of day.  Taste pretty good.  Been taking it for past 5 years during winter and don’t really getting sick from the flu all that much, and I don’t get the shot anymore.

I’m planning to try a few new ingredient powders to the next batch in coming days:  Cinnamon, ginger, turmeric, licorice, boneset, and maybe a touch of cayenne or black pepper.  If anyone got some suggestions, chime in….

  • Tue, Feb 18, 2020 - 09:00am



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    Thank you dtrammel!

Appreciate the time and effort you have put in to consolidating all the information in addition to the plethora of information you have offered among the many blogs! Thank you!

  • Fri, Feb 21, 2020 - 09:32pm



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    Covid19: Medicinals, Herbals and Supplements Megathread for 2/1-2/5

Shorter update because the threads are starting to get lots of comments. Last one had nearly 300. I’ll try for the rest this weekend.

This is a compilation of the comments about Medicinals, Herbals and Supplements which are discussed in the following Peak Prosperity Articles, Blogposts and Podcasts from 2/1/2020 to 2/15/2020:

From 2/1/2020 Coronavirus: Now That It’s A National Emergency, Is It ‘Too Late’?
From 2/2/2020 Coronavirus: How Bad Will It Get?
From 2/4/2020 Coronavirus: ‘Nothing To See Here’ Say Markets & The Media
From 2/5/2020 Coronavirus: The Media Says “Shoot The Messenger!
From 2/5/2020 Coronavirus: What We Can Say Publicly & What We Can’t

Note: ADRS stands for acute distress respiratory syndrome.
From 2/1/2020 Coronavirus: Now That It’s A National Emergency, Is It ‘Too Late’?

FooBarr: Intrigued by comments regarding 3-day fast & Autophagy–Interested in any PP-member personal experience with such.
Anybody got personal experience with fasting and autophagy? is there any medical experts who could advise on where in the influenza infection-and-recovery cycle would a patient want to fast? Did a quick search and here are some interesting videos:

Sounds like High Intensity Training HIT can also be accomplished during the fasting session increasing the effect?

SincerelyYours: learn about the health-promoting properties of fasting
In response to the question above fasting — one of the world’s leading experts on water-only fasting is Dr. Alan Goldhamer at the TrueNorth Health Center in Santa Rosa. Dr. Michael Klaper worked there for many years (and now teaches nutrition in medical schools) knows a thing or two about fasting. Dr. Valter Longo at USC has done extensive research into fasting and has created something called the “fasting mimicking diet”

Myrto Ashe: Re: periodic fasting possible role
In response to the post, I am a functional medicine physician who uses a lot of periodic fasting in my practice. Given that ARDS is one of the biggest concerns, fasting and the ketogenic diet could both be used to reduce the immune system “overresponse” that can result in ARDS. I researched this a bit in order to counsel my patients. I found that in the sickest coronavirus patients, the innate immune system is likely overreacting (not being properly regulated) causing exaggerated damage in the lungs. The way I see it, the concept of “cytokine storm” does not indicate an immune system that is robust, but rather one that is malfunctioning and not properly regulated.

We know that such an immune system results in inflammation, which is an underlying factor in most chronic diseases, from arthritis, to cardiovascular disease, diabetes, depression, autoimmune disease, Alzheimer’s, and apparently ARDS. One of the key players are mitochondria, and something called the NLRP3 inflammasome. When it’s stimulated, it leads to inflammation, organ damage, and ARDS. Inhibiting the NLRP3 inflammasome improves these conditions. The ketogenic diet and periodic fasting inhibit this inflammasome and should be expected to be helpful (you may get the virus and not have a severe course – that’s the hope).

There are many kinds of fasting: the simplest is a 14 hour overnight interval (say from dinner at 6pm to breakfast no sooner than 8am). Or you can skip breakfast (or dinner) altogether. Or you can have a day of eating very little (say 400 calories, mostly vegan) one or two days each week. Or you can have a full-fledged “fasting-mimicking diet” FMD, which is a 5-day low calorie, low protein, vegan diet. A 4-day water only fast would work too, but has some drawbacks.

The FMD is an invention by Dr. Valter Longo that has a ton of very good research published in highly respectable journals such as Nature. It indeed caused autophagy, and mitophagy, and stimulates stem cells, which are then ready for the period of “refeeding” that follows FMD. One can purchase a kit with which to do FMD (called ProLon kit), or figure out how to design one’s own. Of course the research is done on the kit so you are not guaranteed to be on target if you invent your own (BTW I don’t work for the company that makes the ProLon kit). My favorite Longo video is with Dr. Mark Hyman on The Doctor’s Farmacy.

I hope this helps. I think some of these “lifestyle” ways to improve the right functioning of our immune system (rather than consuming a high sugar, high processed food diet) would be helpful in allowing us to better than the average person in this epidemic. I plan to post a link to the newsletter I will be sending my patients tomorrow with additional information on inhibiting the NLRP3 inflammasome.

DisappearingCulture: D3 strengthens the immune system; Omega 3 fatty acids can help control excessive inflammatory response.
More nutritional/inflammation considerations: Also take vitamin D3; most people are deficient [there are few dietary sources]. And the omega 3 fatty acids EPA and DHA, preferably in triglyceride form that occur naturally in fish oil. ALA is good too, but the body needs EPA & DHA the most. These help modulate the inflammatory response.

FooBarr, I have been intermittent fasting for over 2 years. I started out doing 18 hour daily fasts (just water, black coffee, no sweetners, cream, etc). I then worked up to 20 hour daily fasts then one meal a day. I have done many 42 hour fasts. Some 72 hour fasts. For the last year I have been doing regular dry fasts (this is VERY controversial). My longest dry fast was 84 hours. This means no food, no liquid. Dry fasting is supposed to increase autophogy. I went from being obese with a sleep disorder, anxiety, high BP, and who knows what else to now being in perfect health with incredible energy and no loose skin at the end of the process. I will fast/dry fast for the rest of my life. This is a lifestyle, not a diet. My plan while this virus appears to be gaining steam is to do 2-3 full day fasts per week with at least one of them completely dry. Example eat until dinner Sunday night -fast till lunch Tuesday. Fasting takes your body time to get used to but then it is easy. On my eating days I plan to use copious amounts of Vit C and raw garlic as well as other supplements. I’m not a doctor and would never suggest anyone else do these things but they have been life changing for me.

kunga: Bethiew, Way to go
Last summer I was on ketogenic diet plus fasting. Went into planned major surgery in ketosis. Went very well. I think keeping blood sugar low is good. I fell off the wagon this winter, but I am geared up to start back ketogenic this week. Even fasting one day a week saves over a month and a half of food. Kudos!

Alexis: Ards and high dose vit c
I listened to a fascinating YouTube video today re ARDS/ septic shock and high dose vitamin can. They found mortality dropped with 50mg/kg every 6h dosing. Here is link if anyone wants to check out:

From 2/2/2020 Coronavirus: How Bad Will It Get?

SagerXX: Colloidal Silver nebulizer treatments for sinus/throat/lungs
I’m pretty agnostic about colloidal silver as a medicine. I know people who are quite serious that it is an indispensable part of their kit, and I know people who are busily rolling their eyes before you get done saying “colloidal”. Anecdotal data point: for a couple months I have been dating a woman who among other things is a resilience enthusiast/prepper. She had a terrible flu about 3 weeks ago, the associated coughing of which left her throat so raw that when she gargled salt water, it came out pink.

She eventually got better. Fast forward to a few days ago and she felt a relapse of the cough coming on. She mentioned this to a friend who brought over a nebulizer and some colloidal silver. My lady friend did two treatments of about 4 minutes about 6 hours apart and it just knocked the cough right down. She’s certain the colloidal silver wiped out whatever opportunistic bug was trying to assert itself in her lungs/throat/sinuses. Make of it what you will. Like I said, just one data point, and perhaps a starting point for investigation if colloidal silver doesn’t make you roll your eyes

kunga: Colloidal Silver
This is my first line of defense for any thing respiratory, sniffles, sore throat, eye infections, topical stuff. Use as nose drops, gargle. 10ppm from Soverign is my choice. I also have some silver gel.

km64: Prior planning prevents poor performance and panic
I may be a new poster here, but I’ve been on the internet and BBSs, since the early 90’s. Even without that background, if one were to only read the major newspapers, there has always been a certain amount of B.S., conjecture, gossip, and myths about every event, from the smallest to the largest. One should always keep an open mind regarding information regardless of where you see it. Do your due diligence when confronted by information that is counter-narrative, or narrative fulfilling, either can be used against you in a time of crisis. That was true in the days of the pony express and beyond, it is more true today than ever.

I’m going to follow standard flu season protocols, frequent hand cleaning with sanitizer, avoiding touching my face, avoid people who have flu like symptoms. I went to storage and got my epidemic preps (masks, gloves, goggles, hand wipes,) just so they’re more readily available. Went to the store and got severe cold and flu meds, because those are already getting low in stock because we’re in flu season. “Prior planning prevents poor performance and panic” is my mantra. Don’t panic, it’s the flu. Prepare, because it could become a pandemic (if it isn’t already.) Know what a pandemic could do globally and locally to supply lines.

kunga: Mucous Membranes
Disinformation by officials hard to take. Thank G*d for higher than average IQ of PP posters. As per you tube by Dr. Ken Berry, MD, all mucous membranes suceptable; don’t forget area where the sun don’t shine. My defences include, thin laytex gloves that I will double and n95 mask when I venture out, safety glasses. At home take 10,000 IU vitamin D with vitamin K2. Antioxidant chain, vitamin C (2000mg) vit E, zinc, selenium(400microg). Medicinal mushrooms. Dilute clorox spray bottle, colloidal silver spray bottle. Supplement magnesium, potassium, use Himalayan pink salt on food. Use stevia, not sugar, no junk food, no vegetable oils. Hydrate, sleep, pray.

Alexis: And if we all get sick??
After reviewing lots of info and infectious rates; it seems to me that we are ALL going to be exposed, whether passively from fomites or directly from people. I have an immune deficient asthmatic 4yo and KNOW that I can manage her at home with our usual home meds, and also I was previous pedi/adult ER nurse so can manage IV therapy for fluids if needed. I’m curious, what would your threshold be to go to hospital?? We all know that a constant mass casualty (seems to be happening in Wuhan) is unsustainable in our healthcare system as well for any ongoing period. We have stocked food and still procuring antivirals. However, I keep having hesitation knowing what happens once you are in the system… not to mention acquiring a secondary illness Also (Flu! With coronavirus!?). To me, tachycardia without fever, spO2 94 sustained, discoloration… what will your threshold be for this new virus???

for non-medical, I would suggest buying a good stethoscope and pulse oximeter to have on hand so you can learn normals vs abnormal breath sounds. You can listen to the different sounds on YouTube. Just use it as a secondary tool to monitoring family if they get sick with fever or cough. If you hear something weird In their lung fields, have them cough and see if it clears, if it doesn’t it could be sign of pneumonia but something that needs to be explored by healthcare. Also have them close their mouth to breath so as not to make sounds with their mouth your stethoscope will pick up. Def takes practice but worth the ease of mind if you can manage the learning.

From 2/4/2020 Coronavirus: ‘Nothing To See Here’ Say Markets & The Media

Myrto Ashe: Functional Medicine
In reply to Kunga, I also trust the body’s wisdom, but when diarrhea causes dehydration, then sometimes it makes sense to reduce it (as opposed to when diarrhea comes from a regular virus of food poisoning, under regular circumstances, when you would usually let that run its course). Also controlling fever is a similar issue – mostly you want to allow fever, but if the person is becoming dehydrated then you could be losing the battle. Finally, so many people in the world are suffering from environmental toxicity and not in optimal health given the problem food we consume, too much sitting, not enough sleep, etc. In that case, what is the body’s wisdom, and what is the immune system’s attempt to “help” that goes too far?

wyrldtraveler: Understanding why different treatments are important
In reply to Kunga, physicians are licensed to ‘practice’ medicine. Rarely do they know better than Nature in how to keep a patient alive and the smart ones simply try to help things along as best they can. The not-so-good ones believe they are demigods to us mere humans.

Providing supportive care (administering fluids, electrolytes, etc.) *is* “honoring the body’s wisdom” while herbal administrations (such as kaolin clays, pectin) are suggested to manage diarrhea in traditional systems of healthcare; Americans know the pharmaceutical brand name of this anti-diarrheal concoction as “Kaopectate”. Aspirin is derived from the bark of the willow tree. The two systems are not counterproductive.

Eastern medical systems are very good in promoting health and well-ness; when that health deteriorates into a critical stage of ill-ness and dis-ease, Western ‘allopathic’ medicine is often superior. Humans are mostly water. Hydration and cleanliness (usually with water) will do more than any pharmaceutical intervention in preventing illness from external agents like viruses and bacteria. Fever ‘cooks’ the proteins to boost immune response (low/mild fever) and interfere with infectious agent internal chemistry (good thing), but it risks ‘cooking’ the brain (high/raging fever) at the same time, which is considered a bad thing.

Diarrhea flushes out the digestive tract – the stuff the ill are coughing out get trapped in the oropharynx (nose/throat) and swallowed. The digestive tract then may react to flush out the infectious agent in it’s disabled or encapsulated form. Unfortunately, the natural pathway to replenish that water is also that same digestive tract. Enter IV therapy. We are now entering that place when we will need to be our own experts, as advanced medical care may not be available. One need not be a nursing student to study their curriculum and I’ve met more than one nurse who completed medical school, got their MD and got a nursing license instead. Knowledge is difficult to steal.

pcauchy: Dosage re chloroquine
Spot on – re chloroquine this was also noted for other coronaviruses:

If you take it I would aim for at least 5 mg/kg of body weight as recommended in the paper. Ordered some already for loved ones, just in case.

From 2/5/2020 Coronavirus: The Media Says “Shoot The Messenger!

(No Comments Per Subjects)

From 2/5/2020 Coronavirus: What We Can Say Publicly & What We Can’t

The Coronavirus outbreak is now affecting people all over the world. It can be very nasty if you’re not prepared for it. No need to panic, but you do need prepare. A few simple precautions can save you from catching it or any other viral infection going around including the flu. Holistic options are available and best for prevention as well. See: Holistic Treatment for Coronavirus

aggrivated: Not just masks
My work is Healthcare in a small office in a southern US metropolitan area. We are having to source Level 2 masks outside of our major suppliers, they are out. N95 masks have no delivery date. One colleague said she was not able to get disposable gloves today. The most telling was a patient who tried three Walgreens before finding amoxicillin in stock. If you have an essential medicine now is the time to have your physician write a backup prescription and get it filled. Shortages are here, not just far away .

Mr Curious: Hemp Oil
Hi Kunga, Hemp oil containing cbd seems to work beautifully for many people for a wide variety of ailments including serious stuff like concussion injuries. For others, maybe it’s not a miracle drug. I think some quality control is in order for the use of hemp oil. First it should be organically grown without pesticides. Secondly, the ‘full-spectrum’ product that contains a wide range of cannabinoids seems to be more effective than just highly purified cbd. they call this the entourage effect. Additionally, it should be tested by HPLC so you know the dosage being taken and to what extent it may or may not contain psychoactive THC. Also beware of any product that was extracted using hydrocarbons like pentane. My understanding is that ethanol extraction is highly effective and relatively safe.

asgordan123: Stock up on medications.
80% of ingredients for meds come from china….97% of all antibiotics are from China

cheapseats: ICU beds and ventilators in USA
This study estimates the ICU beds and ventilators available in the US. In summary, there are about 20K available ICU beds, and a bit less that one (0.96) ventilators per ICU bed. Ventilators are necessary for the about 20% of nCov infected who become serious with ARDS.!po=0.819672

edit: there are compact ventilators on the market for home use that can connect to supplemental oxygen. There are also reports of effective oral antivirals that are effective against nCov. Home treatment may be an option if ICU beds are overwhelmed. There are options.

dtrammel: Best Preventative Medicine For Infection – Sleep
I’ve been following the news on the Corona virus, or as its now been named Covid-2019, pretty intensively across all of the sources.

Besides Chris’ videos, one of the Youtube channels that I’ve found informative is “Medcram”.

Dr Seheult’s latest video discusses how important sleep is to the immune system and how the best preventative medicine for this virus, and any virus for that matter is sleep. Especially the first few hours of sleep. You should make sure you get at least 8 hours of sleep in your day.

Check the video out, it has a great explanation of how our immune system works.

He’s going to be talking about this for the next couple of videos too.

  • Sat, Feb 22, 2020 - 08:24pm



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    Covid19: Medicinals, Herbals and Supplements Megathread for 2/6-2/14

This is a compilation of the comments about Medicinals, Herbals and Supplements which are discussed in the following Peak Prosperity Articles, Blogposts and Podcasts from 2/6/2020 to 2/14/2020:

From 2/9/2020 New Research Suggests The Coronavirus May Be Far Worse Than We Thought
From 2/10/2020 Up To 24 Days Before Symptoms Start Showing?
From 2/12/2020 The Coronavirus Threat Is Greatest In Cities
From 2/13/2020 Is The Coronavirus (Covid-19) Now Unstoppable?
From 2/14/2020 Why Covid-19 Demands Our Full Attention

From 2/9/2020: New Research Suggests The Coronavirus May Be Far Worse Than We Thought

kunga: Beef up your white blood cells
Any supplements you have decided on should be on going as it takes time for helpful levels to build up in the body. I am not providing medical advice, check with your doc and be sure there is no bad interaction with other meds you take. Helpful for immune system and build white blood cells: Vitamin E, Zinc, Selenium, green tea, carotinoids, vitamin C, omega 3 fatty acids, pro biotics, vitamin A, garlic. Fatty fish, Brazil nuts, carrots, cod liver oil.

LesPhelps: Beef up your white blood cells
Or, instead of taking supplements, you can temporarily, or permanently, switch to a WFPB diet/lifestyle (whole foods plant based) and get all the vitamins and minerals you need, except for B12, from the food you eat. The up side to this approach, is that the vitamins and minerals work much more effectively, when acquired from plants, than from a pill. You can confirm this statement yourself, by researching the science that has been done on nutrition and supplements.

Gorillas, Orangutans, Chimpanzees and Homo Sapiens are Great Apes. Great Apes are herbivores. Chimps get perhaps 1% of their nutrition from animal food sources, Gorillas and Orangutans, none. But homo sapiens have decided that they can ignore the health effects of eating foods their body does not handle well.

so will ibuprofin actually suppress the inflammation in your lungs and help you breath if you have the virus?. i’m making the assumption that i’m going to catch the bug

TreePlanter: If nCov goes pandemic – do you want to be sick early or late?
I would like to hear your thoughts on this scenario. A virologist from Uppsala University, Sweden, said that he thought that this virus is here to stay and will keep going round the world like the H1N1-flu. As a part of the background disease pressure. That in principle everyone on the planet will get the nCov. Some will die, the rest will recover and have some immunity for when it comes around the next winter season. If that is true – when in the cycle do you prefer to be sick? Early on, when there are empty beds at the intensive care? Or late, when there maybe is a vaccine, or more knowledge about which treatment actually works?

In Wuhan, it seems like the health system is over-saturated with sick people, and people are put into “death-or-recovery halls” with minimum care where they at least don’t infect someone else. (I would not like to end up in a hall like that…) What would you prefer? What do you aim for, you and your family?

Tom Sammy: Re: sick early or late
I will use all measures to avoid or delay getting sick as long as possible! treatment advances, effective drugs, more knowledge, etc……all become greater the longer time goes by and should be much more advantageous than the idea of an early case to avoid overwhelmed healthcare system.

nordicjack: Tommy, sick early or late
I had to laugh so hard it brought tears to my eyes. So, I guess we to entertain alternative strategies of how to become ill. I have heard of the strategy to get sick first to make sure you get a bed in ICU, but to compare it to delay hoping for some sort of treatment later on ( an unknown ) is quite risky strategy. I would think if you can manage to delay getting sick until that time – wouldnt you just delay it indefinitely.

NotQuiteReady: Reply to TreePlanter – Getting sick early or late?
I’ve actually thought about this myself, and the definitive answer is LATER. Why?

* I expect there to be more evidence-based treatments down the track. For now it is all guesstimation, experimentation and compassionate prescribing;

* I’d like to know what will happen to those that are confirmed. We’ve seen the heartbreaking footage of military containment in China, and easily put it down to the CCP, however I’m starting to read some alarming articles about rushed laws in the West. Qld Australia rushed an extension to their emergency health regulations last week, extending their powers from a temporary 1 week coverage to a 3 month blanket coverage allowing police and other agencies “…various other powers to enforce and manage public health risks.”

The UK has just rushed through laws allowing them to “…hunt down and capture people if they may be infected or contaminated and could present a risk to public health”.

* There is little known about the long term effects of having had a case of nCov and having recovered. I have seen various records around lung tissue scarring from pneumonia, but otherwise, we know very little about the broader impact on the body and longer term effects. The fact that the bodies of the deceased are being burned so quickly, is also preventing a further, in-depth investigation into this disease through autopsy. So our knowledge of this virus is really only being gained in a reactive, superficial state, which means there is likely to be plenty about this that we are missing.

I understand that second waves are sometimes worse than the first, however, I’ve seen early reports that suggest you may be able to get it again, having only weak immunity from the first exposure, so at this stage there doesn’t seem to be any benefit in contracting it early. Therefore I’ll duck and weave as long as possible.

nigel: Hey Centroid, regarding ibuprofen
Ibuprofen is an NSAID, nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are members of a drug class that reduces pain, decreases fever, prevents blood clots, and in higher doses, decreases inflammation. Don’t use ibuprofen if you aren’t in pain, too many will eat away your stomach lining. I’m not a doctor, and this isn’t medical advice, but if you have something that reduces inflammation, it’s better than not having it.

If you assume you are going to get the corona virus, then focus on things to keep you hydrated, things that are nutritional. Go an get 5 days of soup, something you can make easily if you are sick, something that will hydrate and provide nutrition. Get another say 21 days of food for when you are quarantined.

Quercus bicolor: Herbal antibiotics
I just watched Chris’ new video, ”Coronavirus: Up To 24 Days Before Symptoms Start Showing?”

(Up on youtube, but not here yet – probably to reduce bandwidth problems). He discusses potential antibiotic supply chain interruptions since most of our antibiotics are manufactured in China or with Chinese manufactured precursors. Since secondary bacterial pneumonia is a fairly likely outcome of viral pneumonia, this could be a big problem. So, may I suggest: Herbal Antibiotics by Stephen Harrod Buhner?

phi hecksel: Flu Vaccine, 5.5x more respiratory infections
Study which showed you may be more likely to get additional respiratory infections after you have the flu vaccine.

From 2/10/2020 Coronavirus: Up To 24 Days Before Symptoms Start Showing?

(No comments on subjects)

From 2/12/2020 The Coronavirus Threat Is Greatest In Cities

Mark H.: Air pollution impact?
Do you think that the long-term exposure of the Chinese population to serious air pollution, especially in the large cities, might explain in part why the Chinese appear to have more incidence of serious coronavirus pneumonia? I spent 3 days in Beijing one August outdoors sight-seeing. After those three days, my sinuses were on fire and I came down with a bad sinus infection on the flight home. I don’t know how people can live in that every day.

dtrammel: Tamiflu?
Do we have any information on whether Tamiflu works on this virus? I’ve got a partial script from a bout of influenza A from last year in my medicine cabinet.

greendoc: Tamiflu appears ineffective against coronaviruses
Long story short: Tamiflu likely not helpful for coronavirus infection given its 80% similarity to SARS. There have been no studies specifically looking at Tamiflu and Covid-19, and likely will never be given the fact Tamiflu is not effective against SARS either and they are so genetically similar. Tamiflu is a neuraminidase inhibitor effective in stopping influenza viral replication. Influenza and corona viruses are different viruses altogether. Tamiflu/neuraminidase inhibitors have been tested a least twice that I can see for their efficacy against SARS, and were shown to be ineffective. Some of the interferon based medications were helpful though.

Tested were 19 clinically approved compounds from several major antiviral pharmacologic classes: nucleoside analogs, interferons, protease inhibitors, reverse transcriptase inhibitors, and neuraminidase inhibitors. Complete inhibition of cytopathic effects of SARS-CoV in culture was observed for interferon subtypes, b-1b, a-n1, a-n3, and human leukocyte interferon a. These findings support clinical testing of approved interferons for the treatment of SARS.

Tamiflu may help relieve symptoms of the flu however.

gallantfarms: Tamiflu is a big fraud
“The lawsuit claims the drugmaker’s scheme involved publishing misleading articles falsely stating that Tamiflu reduces complications, severity, hospitalizations, mortality and transmission of influenza. The company then used those articles to aggressively market the drug to the government for pandemic use. Relying on the supposed truthfulness of Roche’s claims, federal and state governments spent about $1.5 billion to stockpile Tamiflu to combat influenza pandemics.”

It wasn’t until repeated requests from The BMJ were honored that data from unpublished trials were released to researchers, revealing the true extent of Tamiflu’s effectiveness — or lack thereof. In the BMJ review of Tamiflu it’s found that Tamiflu shortened the duration of flu symptoms by less than a day, specifically, by just 16.8 hours, and did not affect the number of hospitalizations. In exchange for this very modest benefit, Tamiflu caused nausea and vomiting and increased the risk of headaches and renal and psychiatric syndromes. Serious side effects include convulsions, delirium or delusions and suicidal behavior. Japan banned the use of Tamiflu in children and teens in 2007, after cases of teenagers trying to jump from apartment building windows while taking the drug.

Read the full article:

Nairobi: The highest risk environment is hospital wait rooms
I can hardly agree with you more DTrammel. Stay out of hospitals and clinics! From everything I have been reading over these past few weeks the single biggest risk we face when it comes to becoming infected is contact with other sick people in hospital wards and waiting rooms. For too many people, their ingrained habit is to run and see a doctor for every little cough or ache and complaint. But this is one time we must think very seriously before we get into a lineup for testing just to make ourselves feel better.

Let’s get that message out to people. There is going to be tremendous pressure on the entire medical system. We should not be using it unless it’s absolutely necessary over the coming months. It is much better to self diagnose. Sniffles, coughs and even fever do not normally kill healthy people. If our symptoms are familiar (we have all had flus and colds before) then let’s leave the emergency room chairs to the people who really need them. We will be doing our families and friends a huge favour by NOT bringing home Covid19 acquired simply because we just had to go to the hospital to get checked.

Steve: Chaga Mushroom & Earplugs
Anybody have information on the use of Chaga Mushroom in China to fight the virus? Apparently must be Chaga mushroom that was grown on real Birch trees (firm fruiting bodies). Also, any substantiation to the rumor China has recommended ear plugs for protection from virus entry through the ear canal?

Alexis: Fever temperature of note.
I have noticed this several times in announcements and keep forgetting to mention…The WHO and CDC had previously stated (now the actual temperature seems to have disappeared from symptom lists) a “fever of 100.4.” If you have ever worked medical, especially pediatric, a true “fever” for normal people is usually considered greater than 101F. A temperature of 100.4F is only used in the immune deficient, immune suppressed and newborn population. However, if you have a patient that is none of these things, however “looks” terrible (glassy eyes), elevated heart rate, elevated respiratory rate, low blood pressure, etc then you most certainly document the temperature and note they may be much more sick than the temperature indicates. HUGE red flag when I first saw that weeks ago and then after the lymphopenia phenomenon that seems to be happening in at least the ICU patients. I believe lymphocytes are tied to the TH1 reaction needed to mount an immune response… another thing to research in my free time

AKGrannyWGrit: Chaga
Chaga is a fungus that grows on birch trees. The Japanese call it “The Diamond of The Forest” and the Chinese call it “the King of All Herbs”. I make a big pot of steeped Chaga water and mix it with my drinking water.
Tinctures are great too.

Attributed Benefits – to some degree
Nutrient-dense superfood. Chaga mushrooms contain a wide variety of vitamins, minerals, and nutrients. …
Slowing the aging process. …
Lowering cholesterol. …
Preventing and fighting cancer. …
Lowering blood pressure. …
Supporting the immune system. …
Fighting inflammation. …
Lowering blood sugar.
The indigenous peoples have used it for 1,000+ years. It tastes a little earthy.

I am looking at a bag from “Arctic Chaga”. Google it.

BillL: Chaga
Thank you for that info Granny. In the Clif High/Bitcoin Ben youtube video that I linked above, Clif talks about the Chaga/birch tree correlation. We tend to assume a more naturopathic approach to healing. I am going to post the link again as the first one that I posted was correct. I am able to link to it with no problem. skip the first 21 minutes or not…Ben is a bit amusing. I’ll post the other here from yesterday if anyone is interested. Very scientific approach.

ao: chaga
Chaga is great stuff. We’ve been harvesting it and using it for about a decade now. I wouldn’t count on it though if my life was in the balance. It’s not readily standardizable and response to it seems to be unique to the individual rather than fairly uniform across a broader population. A more standardized immune system boosting mushroom product is AHCC but again, it’s not something I’d trust with my life.

From 2/13/2020 Is The Coronavirus (Covid-19) Now Unstoppable?

(No comments on subjects)

From 2/14/2020 Why Covid-19 Demands Our Full Attention

Wayne Swanson: Stock Up On Meds
I think that it might be prudent to stock up on as much of one’s necessary meds as possible. I was able to obtain an additional 3 months of a med that I must take simply by not running it through insurance and paying cash instead, not that it was high-priced at all. As Chris mentioned, so many pharmaceuticals are produced in China, that even if they are still produced elsewhere, there are liable to be shortages. Time re be proactive in this regard.

Looks like plant based diet it’s a solution to contain the covid 2019

dtrammel: Don’t Forget Getting 8 Hours Of Sleep
Dr Seheult on Medcram has been going over the proven medical benefits of good sleep habits and how they can help your immune system. Good videos that compliment what Chris here is posting.

This one first:
Then this:

Mr Curious: Plant based diet
Pushing a vegetarian diet is not the major point of the article you posted. Nonetheless, now that you brought it up I’ve switched to a (mostly) vegetarian diet and have done extremely well on it. I highly recommend such a diet for myself. There’s a good documentary called Game Changers on Netflix dealing with this topic for those interested. Interestingly, an analysis of the bones from Roman gladiators showed they subsisted mainly on a plant based diet.

Mr Curious: Antibiotics
I know a person with severe gluten intolerance (Celiac) who is otherwise extremely fit, eats almost the best exclusively organic diet that one can etc… But once exposed to wheat, here comes a sinus infectious which invariably turns immediately into something that requires Zithromax. To make matters worse, this seems to happen now with corn based products as well. My theory it’s anything that has to do with glyphosate….Anyway, I’m wondering if there’s a legal way to stockpile on some of these antibiotics.

saxplayer00o1: diet
As someone who has tried a lot of diets (not for weight, since that has been no problem) I can’t say enough about how great I have felt since giving up sugar, grains and processed foods (including those with the cheap oils). This is why so many people have done well on a “paleo diet”. As one who is never afraid to experiment on myself I have been going zero carb and have not had one single serving of fruit or veggies for over a year. How do people do on a diet like this? Scurvy? Malnutrition from no vitamins and minerals? Sickness? We’re up to 47 pages:

Fitness guru Jack LaLanne used to say: “If man made it, don’t eat it.” Vegan, carnivore or anywhere in between: we just need to drop the junk! We need a good immune system during this potential pandemic.

Awka72: Antibiotics
If you do a bit of research, Fishmox, as an example, is widely available. Of course in normal times, I would consult a veterinarian, but in a true emergency? Alternatives would be nice to have.

Alexis: Estrogen, cardioprotective? charcoal?
-Somewhere along my nursing career, I learned estrogen was cardio protective which is typically why females have less heart attacks then men (from what I recall at least, could be wrong). I have not stopped to verify this but *wondering* if phytoestrogens foods would be good against viruses that attack the heart if estrogen is protective. Wondering out loud if someone else had any input on that.

– lastly, if GI ends up being the more transmissible source, does anyone know how activated charcoal absorbs viruses in the GI tract? I understand charcoal is supposed to absorb viruses from air, I’ve read some info about activated charcoal absorbing bacterial endotoxins in the GI tract. Looking into having some charcoal on hand to try if we get sick maybe it will help absorb some virus from gi lining and reduce overall viral load? My kids and I us charcoal toothpaste due to one with dairy and corn allergy, so we already know they tolerate the charcoal fine.

westcoastjan: Natural antibiotics

chrissie.sugden: Legally buy antibiotics
You dont say which country you are in, but check out the Doom and Bloom website. They list Fish and Bird antibiotics which are pharmaceutical grade (so suitable for humans too) which you can buy online for an emergency stash.

Thors Hammer: Diagnostic methods
I wonder if the possibility that dogs may have the capability of identifying the Coronavirus 19 virus has been explored? Dogs have one of the world’s most sophisticated sensory organs, capable of locating bodies under water and identifying the presence of cancer. Perhaps trained dogs could outperform the unreliable lab tests now being used? And give instant results.

Mr Curious: Availability of Antibiotics
Good advice, except that my wife kicks me to the couch after I eat garlic. Essential oils could be on your list as well. we should all become less dependent on antibiotics, but holy cow, when you need some, say for a UTI or something, you really need it. I am a bit freaked on this issue after information came out that 97% of antibiotics in the US are from Hubei province. According to CIDRAP (center for infectious disease research and policy), US farmers use 6 million kilograms of “medically important” antibiotics in the meat and poultry industry. What happens here with supply lines I am curious.

Mr Curious: keto diet
Hey Sax, I’ve done the keto diet more or less and felt great. If I went too hardcore (close to zero carbs), I would get dizzy and lost some muscle along with the fat. In your comment, you say something about no vegetables, which I wouldn’t recommend. You can have a massive amount of keto friendly vegetable matter (broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage yum yum) and still stay pretty low carbs. Avoid vegetables drenched in Roundup if you can. It seems like the processed sugar and bleached white bread/pastries are the main thing to avoid.

dtrammel: Sharon Astyk on this Virus – Preparations
For those, like me, who have been looking at resource depletion, peak oil, income inequality and off grid living for a long while, the name Sharon Astyk will be familiar. For those that don’t know her, here is a brief bio:

Someone sent me what she posted on FB recently about this crisis, and I thought people here would be interested. It was in two parts, the first on her suggestions for preparations. (Which I will post to this comment). The second part is her estimate of how the crisis will affect the American national election. She’s clearly a Democratic supporter, and gets a ding or two in on Trump, but I did find her thoughts on the various effects to a line closely with what I think may happen.

Sharon Astyk
February 12 – On Preparations:

Not looking to freak people out, but since preparedness is what I do (or used to, anyhow) I did want to talk about the ways that Coronavirus could alter things if it is NOT effectively contained in China.

At this moment, honestly, China’s level of containment is pretty impressive, and it is important. While I am certain the Chinese state is engaging in all sorts of human rights violations, in a sense the rest of the world is complicit in them – very few states are authoritarian enough to be able to shut down a virus rapidly at this stage. The fact that almost all cases are in China, and contained mostly to limited areas is hella impressive, even as it is also often appalling.

If and when coronavirus begins to spread substantively (something we probably won’t know for weeks, there’s a substantial lag time in the models) it is very UNLIKELY that the US, for example, would be able to contain it. Enacting the kind of travel and personal activity restrictions that China has would be much more difficult here. Independence and personal rights are the way to go most of the time, but they are a two-edged sword in a situation like this.

It is worth noting that you don’t need a lot of cases of coronavirus to effectively shut things down. Vietnam closed its schools with fewer than a dozen cases. Hong Kong has cases in the double digits still, but shortages and bare supermarket shelves are already a problem. The actuality of the situation and the anxiety level are only tangentially related. And it works the other way around – the Chinese central government announced that it was expecting workers in other cities to return to work. Economic pressures can reduce other precautions as authorities weigh costs and benefits.

If I were a betting woman, my guess is that the global spread would really take off from Singapore, which yesterday announced its first “untraceable” case – ie, someone who go the disease ambiently, rather than by travelling to China or close contact with any known carrier. That’s just a guess, but there are no travel restrictions from Singapore, and it is central hub.

A lot of people are circulating various pieces of internet wisdom designed to remind them that for most of the world Flu is a bigger risk than coronavirus at this point, and that’s absolutely true, but a little misleading. Yes, you should worry more about flu than coronavirus for today. Yes you should get a flu shot. But it is a an apples and oranges comparison too. This year’s flus have been circulating since October, the first cases of Coronavirus emerged in early-to-mid-December. A flu carrier on average will transmit flu to 2 other people, while coronavirus seems to be more like 4 – which is very high.

Annual influenza has a death rate of 0.1-0.2 % of infected individuals. Coronavirus has a death rate of about 2-3 % of infected individuals. Moreover, the death rate is higher in cities with very high rates of infection, suggesting that when the medical system is overwhelmed the rate could be greater. Another concern is that a recent study suggested that it is very hard to keep the disease from spreading within hospitals in ways we don’t entirely understand – which is concerning for two reasons. First, if medical personnel are sickened, that affects the capacity of the system to care for everyone. Second, it means that people dealing with other medical concerns need to worry about transmission, and may delay or avoid medical treatment which ups the overall risks.

My guess is we’ll know whether coronavirus is going to circulate globally by mid-April, but if it starts soon, it could be widespread before that. Or, it could end up being contained. No one is sure. Even if it does become endemic, it isn’t likely to be an endless thing – most coronaviruses don’t like warm humid weather. SARS and other similar viruses mostly petered out in early summer. The odds are good that we are talking about a limited period of time for this outbreak.

So what should you do? Well, not panic is the first thing. It isn’t time to panic. Trust me, I’ll tell you ;-). I can’t give medical advice, but I can tell you what I think and what my family will do.

1. If you have medical care you’ve been putting off, get it done soon if you can. If you can’t or don’t want to, ask if you can wait a while, maybe to summer. Don’t actually risk harm to yourself by doing this, though. Be smart.

2. I would recommend people give up optional international travel at this point. Stay off cruise ships and out of Disney and water parks in case of fecal-oral transmission (likely but not confirmed.) No one needs to go on a cruise. Plan local vacations and buy trip insurance.

3. Get a flu shot if you haven’t, take a multivitamin, get some exercise and generally take care of your health. Wash hands a lot. It may not prevent coronavirus (except for the hand washing) but you’ll be a lot happier if you aren’t weakened by flu or other winter illness first.

4. Don’t buy all the fucking masks. Seriously, the masks don’t work that well anyway, even the good ones. They are best for people who are sick and don’t want to transmit things to others. The masks lose efficacy quickly, and there’s a shortage. So if you do buy some, buy only enough for you to wear in places where there’s a real risk of exposure. Save them for others – no hoarding.

5. If coronavirus starts to spread and you have the option STAY HOME. Especially keep kids, who may be asymptomatic carriers home from venues with lots of older people. Visit the grandparents for passover and easter by skype, not in person. Not everyone can stay home, but if you can, help out by not putting others at risk.

6. If you have any power in this system, use it to help reduce transmission. If you are the boss, give your employees sick time and close down when it seems prudent. Pay them and help them out. If you are in charge of an organization, find ways to reduce social crowds while still keeping connected – teach your classes over the internet, let people call in to meetings, help people engaged in religious and community support from a distance. If you provide support for those who struggle, find ways to continue that support without risk – organize food pantry drop offs, or meal drop offs in safe ways. Leaders, teachers and community organizers should be planning NOW.

7. Support healthcare professionals in your community who will bear a heavy burden in a crisis. They may need meals, childcare, transportation, someone to give a hand if they are sleeping at the hospital or working double and triple shifts. Be a friend and bring coffee. Help them do their jobs.

8. If you have extra money, do some preparing – have extra food and supplies in case you are quarantined. But don’t just buy for yourself – if you are fortunate enough to have extra, plan to share. Up your donations to local community organizations that serve the vulnerable so they have extra to give. Organize with your nieghbors now to plan for mutual support and to make sure everyone has what they need. Know your neighbors and be there for each other.

9. If you end up quarantined, life is likely to be more boring than scary. Make some plans for what to do. Learn a new thing. read a new book. Have some fun stuff to do with kids. Make sure you get outside for a bit every day.

10. Do not obsessively read all the news and work yourself into a total frenzy. It won’t help. Trust me ;-). Honestly, we will probably all mostly die of something much more boring anyway, hopefully MUCH MUCH LATER ;-).

I’ll have some more thoughts on planning later, but for the moment the main rule is use your brain, not your adrenal glands to prepare.

Gus Spreen: Old School Treatments to Best Tough it Out?
Possible to get some Homeopathic info/expertise to help sort out…My take away is aspirin (maybe other treatment) bad and best to strengthen the body while the virus runs its course.


kunga: Old school remedies
Gus, I am totally with you on using homeopathic remedies. But most folks should see a qualified homeopathic practitioner. You can learn this wonderful healing art, but it takes study. Be very careful with aspirin or any product containing salicylic acid for flu like symptoms. Can cause Reyes Syndrome. This killed a lot of patients in the 1918 flu.

mntnhousepermi: no connection with adults though
It is only children and teens who shouldnt take asprin when having the flu or chicken pox because of a link with reyes syndrome.

Mr Curious: Happiness
Dave, I wish you the best. we’re all in this together. Along those lines, many times I’ve felt a cold or some illness coming on and I go sleep for 10 hours straight if I can. This helps immensely. Another thing that I believe has helped me fend off colds is the sauna. I’ve heard that it may boost leukocyte production by simulating a fever.

ao: let’s look at fractures
Let’s say you fracture your tibia and it’s a non-displaced fracture. Conventional medical wisdom says put a cast on it for 6-8 weeks and be non-weightbearing. So when you get your cast off, you’ll have atrophy, joint stiffness, and possibly other problems at the level of involvement as well as farther up the kinetic chain from disuse and misuse. If you’re very worried about the outcome, the resulting neurophysiologically induced biochemical changes often result in a self-fulfilling prophecy of delayed healing and the development of secondary complications. If your nutrition is poor, bone healing is even slower. If you’re a smoker, it’s even slower. In short, you’re fuxored.

Now let’s look at another individual. They have the same fracture. But their nutrition is good and they’re not a smoker. And because of their positive belief system, they up their nutrition game even more with nutrients including Vitamin D3, Vitamin K2, folate, strontium, silicon, boron, magnesium, calcium, etc. They also use herbs like boneset and homeopathic remedies like symphytum. And very importantly, they don’t use a cast and don’t stay completely non-weight-bearing. In fact, they use a progressive axial sinusoidal loading program to just barely pain tolerance and they repeat this program again and again in multiple sets and reps prescribed by their more enlightened health care practitioner. They may use an herbal wrap but no hard cast. Acupuncture may even come into play to direct more life energy to the area. They do this day after day with the introduction of very slow motion, Tai Chi type, multi-angular weight shifting exercises to tolerance and then gait to tolerance. And their positive mindset keeps them motivated and disciplined to be consistent in their program and induces a neurophysiological biochemical state in the body maximally conducive to healing and minimally conducive to problems ranging from bone infections to reflex sympathetic dystrophy. And guess what, when you do an X-ray, you’ll find that individual is healing in half the time or less. So yes, mindset will come into play even with something as tangible as a fracture.

pinecarr: Question about echinacea
Hi Sparky1, thanks for the link to the video about “20 items to get” while you still can. There were a couple of good reminders in there (I still need a humidifier!) In reading through the video’s comments, there was one in particular that caught my attention: “…echinacea, when taken everyday will reek havoc on the liver”. (They also said elderberry at first, but someone else discounted that). I know I -and maybe others here?- have started drinking echinacea tea once or twice a day to boost my immune system. But if drinking it for too long can be harmful, that’s certainly something to be aware of.

I did a quick search, and saw some mentions linking echinacea and liver problems. Here’s one thing I found on it :

“Using echinacea for longer than 8 weeks at a time might damage your liver or suppress your immune system. Herbalists recommend not to take echinacea if you are taking medicines known to affect your liver. Some herbalists say you shouldn’t take echinacea for longer than 8 weeks. This is due to possible side effects. But a study in Cardiff in 2012 seemed to show that it is safe to take for up to 4 months.”

However, most articles on echinacea don’t mention this at all. So there seems to be some lack of clarity on the issue. I’m hoping some of our folks here who are knowledgeable in herbal medicine can help weigh in on this?

wyrldtraveler: Echinacea
What I have read is that Echinacea, 3x/day for 3 days is most effective. After that, a ‘cooling off period’ of at least 3 days as the body begins to down-regulate the immune response after that. That’s hearsay; I have no studies. Logical, however. The Cancer Research webpage link has the standard language we-officially-don’t-know-one-way-or-another (implying that you should listen to your allopathic physician and take their poison pills because-they-said-so and not because they are actually better for you than herbal approaches) like all other charities accepting government funding. Too much drinking water is bad for your kidneys, too.

Gus Spreen: Homeopathic Treatments?


Only experience with homeopathic treatment is recommend dosing for serious problems with poison ivy reaction. Not a magic bullet, but did significantly reduce the problems.

From 1918 flu account, it seems that the use of aspirin (fever breaker?) was a negative impact on the outcome. The major benefit of the homeopathic treatment may have been just to prevent the use of aspirin and its apparent negative effect on the body’s natural immune system and feedback loop to prevent unnecessary/out of control inflammation.

Awka72: Drinking green tea? Gargle with it as well.
There is some evidence green tea may help with viral sore throat when gargled. Sounds weird, but I’ve tried it & it’s much more pleasant than peroxide or salt water, and seems beneficial.

thejacksonteam: at home care
Chris…would you recommend an at-home oxygen generator (which can be had for $600 +/-) to bolster at home treatment?

Alexis: Home care: Nebulized hypertonic saline Solution

I’ve been scouring for alternative treatments for ARDS and randomly came upon some products sold for RSV and Bronchiolitis in children and infants. Anyway, found the above linked article which seems to support using hypertonic saline nebulizer. Which I interpret to mean using saline in a humidifier may be good as well lol (not medical advice, I need to research that subject next lol ;). I do have a home nebulizer and will purchase the hypertonic nebs just in case.

dtrammel: Natural DIY Vapor Rub
Might be of help relieving congestion.

TechGuy: Stocking up on anti-viral meds?
I see from Chris’s video tonight that China is prescribing Arbidol (anti-viral agent) to suspected Covid-19 patients. This isn’t available in the US (not FDA approved). Tamiflu is FDA approved but I have no idea if it would be effective since it for treating the Flu. Hopefully a Physician here can reply. Or if Tamiflu isn’t appropriate would would you recommend? This would be kept at home & only used if I get infected. I figure its would be best to avoid hospitals or any Medical centers when this breaks out. I would very like contact a physician at home via phone before taking it (presuming I can get in contact with a Physician if this is a full crisis).

Presuming I do get infected, probably my only real option is to self-isolate & treatment at home, presuming that hospitals\med Centers would already be overwhelmed and probably useless for any treatment. That said, I have been stocking up on some OTC meds: Cough medicine, NSAIDs & Tylenol (Fever relief), Decongestants, presuming Medical care is overwhelmed and bascially in accessible to new patients. I realize these would only treat the symptoms, and would not be a cure. Nor would an anti-viral drug be a cure either. I could possible do some basic tests at home Blood Oxygen levels via a Pulse Oximeter and a WBC via refractometer. Is there are any other tests I can perform at home that would be useful?

kunga: Essential oils
Hi, vital vision (MB), I went to your website and you surely do not look 75;, I will be getting back to you about that. Two things you probably already know: 1) Homeopathic remedies are often antidoted by volatile substances such as gasoline vapors, this includes volatile essential oils. 2)The plague was a bacterial, not a viral disease. Essential oils could potentially strengthen the immune system, but I do not know if they would inactivate a virus already in the body. Perhaps they inactivate viruses on surfaces. Please, can you include some more documented information or anecdotes ref. to clariy these points. Thank you.

BillL: You go gal!…
Thanks for your post lady VV. For years we also have enjoyed the benefit’s of EO’s. One of my favorites is Eucalyptus, or Breathe oils mixed with water and ladled onto the lava rocks in our wood-fired sauna. Extremely relaxing and cleansing. I passed your site info on to my wife. Perhaps she will be in touch. Take care.

dtrammel: Ice – No Not The Border Patrol
I keep a bag of ice in my top loading freezer but that’s just for odd occasions. It strikes me that ice will be very important if you need to cool down an infected person’s fever. Either in cold packs applied to their body, or ice baths in the tub. Its a resource that is easily made in a freezer and stored if you plan for a bit of space. Something else, if all you have is a standard refrigerator, with a small upper freezer unit, now might be the time to buy a small top loading freezer (5-7 cubic foot is ideal). They can be bought for less than $175. You can save a bunch of money with buying food when on sale or in large units if you have one. I regularly buy large roasts when they are on sale, and carve them up into stew meat to freeze for later. Ice too.

Tina S: Another perspective on essentail oils
I understand that many people use and like essential oils but there are some reasons to be cautious regardless of the quality of the product. I tend to agree with the perspective of a highly experienced herbalist in NE Oregon, April Graham, who has a post on her website – – about the down sides of EOs. She is more interested in seeing people use tinctures which use the whole plant (when appropriate) and mostly importantly the extraction process is slow, allowing all the properties of the plant material into the tincture. Not to speak of the tremendous amount of waste that goes into making EOs. Just putting this out there as it’s good to see pros and cons of any potential remedy. And the point that EOs may deactivate any homeopathic remedies. Just occurred to me to wonder how traditional Chinese medicine docs are addressing this outbreak? Anyone heard anything about that? Thanks all for such great info and discussion. Learning a lot!

Pandabonium: Heart rate
Yes, I met with a cardiologist yesterday on business unrelated to this pandemic, and he checked my pulse right off. The current medical training says a resting heart rate between 60 and 100 bpm is OK, but that is based on very, very old thinking. Much lower – like down to 60 is better. Sorry no time to look up supporting data for you. Mine is usually around mid 70s and it may take months to get it to 60, but I’ll keep working at it.

My way of getting it lower has been a plant based diet and lots of exercise – I do a very minimum of 40 minutes of aerobic exercise every day, usually 60 minutes, and working toward a goal of 90 minutes a day which the peer reviewed literature shows is the actual optimal amount. Why is only 20 to 30 minutes a day recommended by MDs? Because, as with diet, they are recommending what they believe people are actually willing to do rather than what the science shows is what should be done. Trials with heart rate slowing meds (which also may lower blood pressure which might not be what a person wants to do) actually show added life expectancy with lower heart rates. Being thrifty, I’ll keep riding the bike and walking.

ao: some comments with regards to heart rate
I’ve always been amused by Neil Armstrong’s quote: “I believe that every human has a finite number of heartbeats. I don’t intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises.”

That being said, while Neil may have had a point from one perspective (that of having a finite number of heart beats, to be used judiciously), I also think this was his way of jokingly protesting the mandatory exercise required of astronauts. The benefits of exercise not only taxing the aerobic mechanisms but also the anaerobic/lactic acid mechanisms and the phosphocreatine/ATP mechanisms as well as other systems ranging from the myofascial to lymphatic to autonomic nervous system, etc. are undeniable. That being said, while the absence of training is definitely to be avoided, over-training has multiple risks as well. Excessive aerobic training can have a variety of subtle detrimental effects including lowering immune system function and overproduction of free radicals that can increase one’s risk for cancers.

I don’t necessarily agree that peer reviewed literature shows that 90 minutes daily is the optimal amount. Optimum levels will vary according to genetics, muscle fiber ratios, lung capacity to body size/weight ratios, VO2 max, heart size to body size/weight ratios, cardiac efficiency, training intensity, training periodicity, micro-, meso-, and macro-cycles of training, recovery capacity, etc., etc., etc. Training correctly does serve the purpose of lowering your resting heart rate and since one spends a considerably greater period of time not exercising intensely as compared to exercising intensely, the net effect should be to lower the number of heart beats per year and thereby, hopefully add to one’s life span, at least from a cardiac “engine” perspective. My resting pulse is in the 50s and will get as low as the upper 40s in a down-regulated, resting state and I’m 66. Physical training will lower it but adjunctive psycho-energetic training including breathing meditation and qi gung will lower it even further.

But just as important as a lower heart rate is a uniform, coherent heart rate. This state can be achieved with other types of training such as Heart Math ( In fact, given the noticeably up-regulated state of a number of posters on this site related to the corona virus issue, it would probably behoove some of them to pursue this type of training. Too much work and not enough play is not good for PPers. Crankiness typically reflects a stressed state of the body-mind.

  • Sun, Feb 23, 2020 - 12:32pm


    Jim H

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1744

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    My anti-viral protocol

Prepping for possible exposure to 2019-nCoV

23 February 2020


Jim H

If defenses like hand washing and mask usage, meant to keep this new virus at bay fail, then the last line of defense is in fact your own immune system.  The success or failure of an individual’s immune response to initial infection by this virus may very well make the difference between being asymptomatic/having a mild case, or ending up in a hospital with respiratory failure.  In researching means by which to boost natural immunity to viruses, I found three ways to achieve this result that are simple, inexpensive and available (as of today), and that have a very well documented history of efficacy;

1)      Get enough good sleep, >/= 7 hours.

2)      Mushrooms as medicine

3)      Elderberry extract

In the next three sections I will go over the highlights of my research findings for the three factors listed – the data that convinced me in defining my personal immune boosting protocol.  First though I will list very specifically my current supplement regimen for the Mushrooms and Elderberry extract.  This protocol may be subject to change as I learn more.  It is in no way exhaustive and does not address some more newly available, less well documented substances believed to enhance immunity like C60 (Buckminsterfullerene), and CBD oil.  Do your own due diligence!  I am documenting this for friends and family because I believe, if and when the virus begins to run rampant in Western nations, which I personally believe is a foregone conclusion, these supplements, much like N95 masks today, will become nearly impossible to source.

Mushroom protocol:

Chaga mushroom tea,  1-2 cups per day, 0.5 – 1 gram dried Chaga per cup.

Stamets-7 mixed mushroom capsules by Host Defense, or equivalent, one capsule per day;

There are many good sources for dried Chaga mushroom, which grows in Northern climate zones on birch trees.  I got mine from a small business in Northern Michigan which harvests sustainably;

Elderberry protocol:

Sambucol or equivalent Black Elderberry syrup, 15 ml once per day in hot water.  Increase to 4X per day if sick.  Available at Walmart.


Better Sleep


This may sound trite but there is plenty of science to back it up.  I learned about this from a medical doctor who is kind enough to spend some of his time teaching what is known about this new virus on YouTube.  As a pulmonologist, he practices the kind of protocols that are necessary in attempting to save patients whose lungs are severely attacked, and frankly the idea of going through this was scary enough to me to motivate my research into this protocol.  This video is a must watch, both justify the call for better sleep, as well as the very concise treatise on how the immune system works and why you need to fight off this virus early in order to avoid the kind of complications that lead to death.

Video link:


Why Mushrooms?


My initial clue as to the efficacy of mushrooms, and to Chaga in particular, came from a YouTube mad scientist and computer programmer by the name of Clif High.  In the course of his explorations relating to his own battle with cancer, Clif had been in contact for some years prior to the outbreak with a Chinese herbalist near Wuhan, China.  As we know, Wuhan was the center of the initial outbreak of what would later be named 2019-nCoV.  In the following video, Clif recounts what amounts to a small, anecdotal study of the efficacy of Chaga mushroom against 2019-nCoV.  15 of the herbalist’s older patients in Wuhan who had been taking Chaga mushroom did not become sick, even though they were all old and some lived in buildings that were totally locked down, whereas two younger, otherwise healthy patients who were being treated for sports-related inflammations and who had not been prescribed the Chaga, ended up in the hospital and eventually succumbed to the virus.

If you live in the Northern states, you may be able to source Chaga and other functional mushrooms like Turkey tail yourself from birch trees in the woods.


Video link for Clif High:

The history of efficacy of mushrooms against cancers and viruses is extensive.  In researching more deeply I happened upon this patent application made by Paul Stamets, founder of the Washington State company Fungi Perfecti, LLC and maker of the Host Defense line of products.  While you can’t patent a natural product like mushrooms, the patent referenced speaks to methods of extracting the functional molecules.  What I found fascinating and illuminating were the many case studies outlined by the author based on his long history in providing these in various forms, for various purposes.

The example I find most interesting is that of a medical doctor who was about to embark on a course of the recently developed, and hugely expensive pharmaceuticals designed to eradicate the body of Hepatitis-C virus (see example 16, page 51 in the linked patent).  After having tested positive for a low but steady viral load for 10 years, a fresh round of testing meant to kick off the monitoring period associated with a course of treatment showed, inexplicably, no viral load.  This test was repeated;  No Hep-C virus.  The doctor in question, who remains anonymous, reported this news back to Mr. Stamets because the only logical conclusion was that a brief, two month course of Host Defense mushroom capsules, taken a few months prior to the latest Hep-C test, had in fact helped his body to wipe out the virus.

Black Elderberry

Like mushrooms, elderberry has a long history of use as anti-viral medicine.  It’s safe and well tolerated.  I first learned about elderberry from the online community at, where several of the members talked about stocking up on, or making their own extract in the face of this potential viral pandemic.  Further research uncovered what is often not seen in the case natural substances – results from a placebo-controlled, randomized study!  The 2005 study looked a newly diagnosed flu victims and gave them either real, sweetened black elderberry extract, or an indistinguishable placebo.  I will link the paper below, but there is one chart of data in the paper that tells the story very clearly hence I present it below.  Taking elderberry extract, 4 x 15ml doses per day, dramatically accelerates one’s ability to rid their body of the flu virus;


Link to paper:  there is plenty of data to suggest that elderberry works more broadly against other viruses as well.

  • Sun, Feb 23, 2020 - 01:28pm



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    Clif High

Clif High on his last Three Amigos video posted on YouTube, discusses how Chaga can be an effective natural antiviral for preventive use.  The whole video is great but starting past minute 33 or so, he gets into Chaga.

  • Mon, Feb 24, 2020 - 10:39pm



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    Summary of some of the good advice here

Beyond the obvious eat well, sleep well, reduce stress, etc., I’ve been taking notes this last month (both from my naturopath and here at PP) and feel like I have an approach that I’m comfortable with. I have most of the following but not all of the Buhner tinctures (yet).


Building immune system while healthy – Priority One Bio Vegetarian (multivitamin with herbs), Vit D3 (ideally with K2), Vitamin C, Astragalus, Zinc (potential adds: licorice root, melissa, garlic)

What to take while sick – same as above and add some or all below depending on how ill and what my body’s response is:

Elderberry syrup or tincture

Chaga tea

Anti-viral herbs my dr recommended:

  • Virattack (lomatium)
  • tincture: mahonia, hydrastis, echinacea and ligusticum (equal parts), 2 dropperfuls 4x a day to every 2 hours.

Stephen Harrod Buhner’s coronavirus protocol:

  • Core tincture: Baikal skullcap (3 parts), japanese knotweed root (2 parts), kudzu (2 parts), licorice (1 part), decocted elder leaf tincture (1 part). Note, the berry will do i guess but it is about 1/3 as effective as the decocted leaf (which no one sells, you have to make it yourself). Dosage: 1 tsp 3x day, 6x if active infection.
  • Immune system, cellular protection, cytokine interruption tincture: formulation, supportive for core tincture activity: Cordyceps (3 parts), Dong Quai (2 parts), rhodiola (1 part), astragalus (1 part). Dosage: same as above.
  • Cellular protection, cytokine interruption, spleen/lymph support tincture: Dan Shen (3 parts), red root (2 parts), cinnamon (1 part). same dosage as above.
  • With active infection: very strong boneset tea, to 6x day.
    Over-the-counters that contain expectorants (guaifenesin) but not cough suppressants (dextromethophan)

For a cytokine storm immune response:

  • High levels of anti-inflammatory herbs (see Cellular protection tincture in Buhner’s protocol above)
  • High levels of anti-inflammatory vitamins – primarily Vitamin C
  • N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) for absorption of fee radicals, or even better, straight Glutathione


Thanks to everyone who’s contributed to these threads. Great resource. I’m grateful to you all.


Paul in Portland

  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 11:59am



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    need clarification on immune system enhancement>suppression

If one experiences symptoms of the Covid-19 virus, at what time does one transition from immune enhancement protocol- elderberry, vit C, etc.- to a immune/cytokine suppression strategy-NAC, melatonin, etc.?  What if a person already had a history of autoimmune malfunctions?  Aloha, Steve


  • Tue, Feb 25, 2020 - 12:11pm



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    credentials, please

Hey gang- I am really grateful for all the fantastic medical/herbal posts by both old and new members.  Amazing amount of new info (to me!).  I have a request however- if you are a professional or expert in the field that you are posting info or recommendations on, would it be possible for you to describe, or “signature”, each of your postings with your general qualifications to give credence to your advise?  Annecdotal stories are fine, but some advisory postings are very technical, and I’d like to have some idea of the veracity of the info, which isn’t always evident.  Implementing some of the posted recommendations could directly effect my personal health, so, that’s my concern.  I’m guessing most of this info would go right over the top of my AMA/PCP’s head, if I asked him….Appreciate the consideration.  Aloha, Steve

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