Connecting Faith to the Crash Course

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  • Thu, Oct 16, 2008 - 04:44pm

    #31
    john50

    john50

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    Re: Connecting Faith to the Crash Course

The message of the Bible is Love. (and redemption). All the rest fits under that heading of Love.

In the days of Jesus, giving was typically to look after the needs of Widows and Orphans. It meant having your home open to feed a stranger or help someone in need. When you have a banquent, it was customary to invite more than family, you invited the community – including the undesirables. Think about that when Thanks Giving comes around, are you giving to any strangers in need? God provides for us our needs, in abundance so we can share with others, not so we can hoard gold only for ourselves.

Kjalnot – there is no undertone of stripping believers of their possesions in the Bible – you have that confused with Hank Paulson and the Beltway Gang.

The story you quoted of Zacchaeus needs to be understood. Zacchaeus was a tax collector who would demand tribute as he sees fit and split the proceeds with Rome, too frequently in a ‘mofia’ sort of way. He became rich by stepping on others, and when Jesus touched his heart, Zacchaeus decided to atone for his sins by giving back to those he robbed. It is a story of loving a greed scum bag, and restoring him to decency. It was Zacchaeus who made the choice and benefited from giving up his fraudulent ways. If that makes you Biblephobic, then perhaps you have issues on your heart you need to deal with.

This story illustrates a problem with society- one cannot serving two masters. Rome or God, which is your master? Do you render unto Ceasar, or do you put God as your Lord? America today, is frequently being compared to the Imperalistic ways of the Roman Empire during the fall.

Historian Edward Gibbon wrote The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, in 1776. There can be no doubt that his dire warning played a role in warning the American fore-Fathers, to avoid pagan conduct, and debasing the currency were two of many major lessons in history. (Gibbon was a Pagan himself). Unfortunately, people do not learn from history, they repeat the same mistakes over and over.

Obama said in debate that no imperalistic country was ever successful extending their Empire while their economy at home was in decline (paraphrased). I agree, he showed some foreign policy wisdom greater than war mongering for money. Bring the troops home and stay clear from engaging in a war with Iran/Russia/China. Love not War – any arguement?

 

 

  • Thu, Oct 16, 2008 - 07:59pm

    #32
    FNKRoue

    FNKRoue

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    Re: Connecting Faith to the Crash Course

[quote=Soulmaster][quote=john50]

My studies lead me to suggest that a turning point was the promotion of Evolution as a substitute religion called Secular Humanism for people who reject God and put their faith into an unproven and un-scentific theory.

[/quote]

 

…sorry to rain on your parade but religion is also "unproven and un-scientific".

[/quote]

 The further you go with quantum mechanics the closer to religion you are.  And almost all description of energy is the description of God.

 

5-10 years ago most scientists would probably agree that there is no evidence for anything beyond the material that we see before us in our universe.  However now we have mathematically calculated that visible matter and energy accounts for only  4% of that which exists in the universe, the rest being majoritily (73%) what is called "Dark Energy" and a portion (23%) of "Dark Matter".

 As the few other explanations for galactic constants of motion are limited including things as far fetched as gravity is not constant.  The leading hypothesis is that what you and I see to the far reaches of the universe is dwarfed by material enough for 8 more universes and energy in surplus of anyone’s imagination.

Almost all hypothesis are unproven, for instance the idea of "light matter" being all that exists (which was just converted from proven to false).  And right now the scientific community has faith in things they cannot see or explain or probably ever touch or glimpse in their lifetime.

 Sounds pretty religious to me.

  • Thu, Oct 16, 2008 - 10:05pm

    #33

    Quercus bicolor

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    Re: Connecting Faith to the Crash Course

[quote=Golden Age]

Was our nation a better place to live when Christian moral values dictated the way most of us lived our lives? Absolutely.

[/quote]

I’m not as sure as you are that our nation was a better place then. While many did their best to live by Christian or some other respectful moral values, they were certainly not applied universally. Our nation committed genocide against Native Americans, held slaves, treated the freed slaves as third class citizens, treated women as second class citizens, encouraged children to behave in socially acceptable ways through threats of physical punishment, and hid away behaviors that were viewed negatively like homosexuality, violence towards woman, alcoholism and other addictions.

I’m not saying that the values themselves are at fault. Lived fully, those values can bring nothing but good. I just believe that most people in those days didn’t have the levels of self awareness and self acceptance to live those values fully. The shadows of all of those negative behaviors were so dark and scary that they just didn’t explore them. Today there are many tools out there from religious practices in many traditions to 12 step programs to yoga and meditation that have the potential to bring people to help people explore their shadows and bring themselves to a sufficient level of awareness to live those values more fully.

Perhaps our nation has brighter days on the other side of the darkness.

 

Steve

  • Thu, Oct 16, 2008 - 10:15pm

    #34

    Quercus bicolor

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    Re: Connecting Faith to the Crash Course

[quote=john50]

The message of the Bible is Love. (and redemption). All the rest fits under that heading of Love.

[/quote]

John,

If the bible inspires us to make restitution, give away that which is not ours, be truly generous by inviting those we might consider to be undesirable into our house, assessing what we can truly afford and bringing the troops home in the name of peace and financial sanity, I’m all for it.  In fact, I’m for any practice or creed that inspires such actions.  We need more people who behave this way.

Steve

  • Thu, Oct 16, 2008 - 11:17pm

    #35
    john50

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    Re: Connecting Faith to the Crash Course

What Scientists know is limited. Seldom do leading Scientists agree. Too often Scientists have created the results they were paid to produce, for big tobacco, big pharmaceuticals, or big natural humanist sponsors like PBS, National Geographic, or Scientific American. I have reviewed a number of cases that have been proven fraudulent, and are still being taught to High School students ‘as fact’. It makes me sick. Certainly many non-Christian scientist articles I have read confirm that the origin of life could not happen by chance, nor in millions of years. Christian Scientists are now a force that has turned the tide of State sponsored brain-washing. The pendulum of controlled scientific thought had swung too far to one extreme, where only the approved results would be acknowledged. Rational and free scientific thinking is returning.

The comparison in finance is about the same, if you think Jim Crammer and CNBC is the height of critical financial thinking – then you need to go over the Crash Course a few more times to and be honest with your assessment. Mainstream media, and even University Economics courses by the likes of Samuelson, that I took are full of Keynesian and Friedman indocrination  it is financial pablum crap designed by bankers to fool the public. If you have come here to be enlightened about finance – as if it is in a compartment disconnected from anything else, you may need to face that everything is connected, and at the root we have a moral crisis – that is manifested in a financial crisis. If we were doing right by each other, the environments, foreign (war) policy, and our own souls, I would argue there would be no financial crisis. Think about it. Surprised

One thing I have learned over 35 years in finance, is people believe whatever they want to believe. They fall for scams, ponzi schemes, bank debentures paying 30%/mo, lottery schemes, bubbles – and manias of all sorts. Also, the more people (especially advisers), say the market is going this way or that, the more chance the mass is wrong. [News flash, the stock markets are rigged, and unless you are a pro like me, or an insider, you are food for the bank sharks.] The great voices in finance have been the ones that take a stand against the crowd, like Chris Martenson, Nouriel Roubini, Ludwig Von Mises, Robert Prechter, Bill Bonner, and Meredith Whitney, to name just a few. Contrarians outperform the market sheeple. I count myself a contrarian, of the Austrian school of economics, with a moral code.

I believe this financial crisis is meant to serve a purpose – it is meant to humble us, and ultimately rebuild us into a better society. Human societies are incapable of making painful changes, individuals can, but the crowd has inertia like a super-tanker. Unfortunately, I think it will see 5 billion people die in wars or pandemics as the price for too much debt to keep the American lifestyle going as long as it did. In 2006 it took 80% of World total savings to finance America, in 2008 it has already exceeded 100% – and people are hoping to return to the staus que by 2009??

Many will wish they were in an Amish community before this is over.   

 

 

  • Fri, Oct 17, 2008 - 01:18am

    #36

    Ray Hewitt

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    Re: Connecting Faith to the Crash Course

Yes this is a moral crises, but it didn’t just happen. Banks and governments have been screwing the masses for centuries. My gripe with religion is that it teaches followers to let authorities do their thinking for them. This is what you get. Nothing good is going to come out of this. Take a lesson out of a page from Darwin. Make preparations for survival, otherwise you ain’t gonna make it.

If you want a lesson from the Bible, remember there was no flood when Noah built his ark.

  • Fri, Oct 17, 2008 - 03:28am

    #37

    joe2baba

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    Re: Connecting Faith to the Crash Course

well i have given this a great deal of thought and for me to connect the crash course to faith

i have to look at the hindu religion.

in the hindu religion you are born again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again…………………………………………………

therefore you have a hockey stick which is exponential growth .

  • Fri, Oct 17, 2008 - 05:08am

    #38
    john50

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    Re: Connecting Faith to the Crash Course

Remember the hockey stick for populatiion growth in the Crash Course?

Chris’s research for the growth rate and time from put the numbers at 5000 years to reach our present population, correct?

Well, how do you fit man being around for millions of years? The population would have peaked thousands of times. 

I know some clever people will try to reverse engineer it to make it fit, and stretch the facts to fit their beliefs, that is exactly what science does in many cases.

The earth is only about 7000 years old, according Genesis. It fits with the hockey stick.

  • Fri, Oct 17, 2008 - 06:22am

    #40
    Kjalnot

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    Re: Connecting Faith to the Crash Course

 

That you, john50, don’t believe in evolution is not suprising anymore.

Humans, as we know them, have existed maximum of 250 000 years, but more probably 100 000 (dawkins aproximations).

Why hasn’t it peaked to 9 billions during that period? 

IF you understand anything of the energychapter, it is that excess energy leads to social complexity.

Do you think we have more of an excess now compared to 80 000 years ago?

 7000 thousand years does not fit with ANYTHING. Stop embarrassing yourself. 

 

And by the way, fine define god as the great energy that is in everything, the key to the order of the world, that isall in order.

But then don’t tell that he wrote a book, sometimes is a human face in a burning boosh, and that he cares who I personally fall in love with. You can wait an eternity, quantum physics will NEVER prove that.

 

 

  • Fri, Oct 17, 2008 - 06:41am

    #41
    Kjalnot

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    Re: Connecting Faith to the Crash Course

We do have a moral crisis, but this is not it.

This is a lot of rich people, losing the money of another bunch of rich people. 

Sure, not everyone is rich by our standards, but you are not exactly living on less than 2 dollars a day, like 3 billion people on this planet, are you?

The GREAT moral crisis is the environment. A few rich % use half of the worlds resources, leaving nothing for the poor, and even less for the future. In the greater scheme of thing, the environment is 1000 times more important.

I am ashamed and embarrassed of the human species shortsightedness, and our inability to understand consquences until there is an enormous catastrophy.

A small group of people being reckless? Don’t get so worked up 🙂

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