Condemning the British Rioters!

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  • Fri, Aug 19, 2011 - 10:44am

    #71
    ao

    ao

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    xraymike79 wrote:darbikrash

[quote=xraymike79]

[quote=darbikrash]

 I call his position determinist, as he attempts to simplify and reduce complex sociological issues to easily identified quantities that history has shown us, over and over, lead to violence and discrimination and bigotry and countless other transgressions – precisely the opposite of the “freedom from force” ideology that is (falsely) advocated by Molyneux and his ilk.

It is a tool of the false dialectic of extremes, that argues that the choice is between no government and bad government, and that if government is not perfect it is inherently evil.  Because they are driven to extremes, those who argue this cannot see the great middle ground, of an imperfect government that nevertheless is capable of maintaining justice and order within the context of freedom.   Failure is only certain at the extremes, of authoritarianism and anarchy, when by two different paths one turns society over to the wolves.

 I can think of a few libertarians that could greatly benefit from reading and understanding that quote.

[/quote]

Amen to that. This black-and-white, for-us-or-against-us mentality is what will really do us in because the actions that need to be taken have to be carried out on a collective basis with a strong government role, something derided as Socialist by the demagogues. Individual action, no matter how admirable and correct, will be taken down by the masses who are continuing on with business as usual.

[/quote]

I’d be interested in hearing what folks here have to say about Gerald Celente’s advocacy of a Direct Democracy movement, somewhat akin to how the Swiss run their country. 

  • Fri, Aug 19, 2011 - 01:03pm

    #72

    Vanityfox451

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    Direct Democracy …

[quote=ao]

I’d be interested in hearing what folks here have to say about Gerald Celente’s advocacy of a Direct Democracy movement, somewhat akin to how the Swiss run their country.

[/quote]

I found this very interesting ao : –





I took a look into Direct Democracy for Switzerland at Wikipedia [link], where I found : –

In Switzerland, single majorities are sufficient at the town, city, and canton level, but at the national level, double majorities are required on constitutional matters. The intent of the double majorities is simply to ensure any citizen-made law’s legitimacy (Kobach, 1993).

Double majorities are, first, the approval by a majority of those voting, and, second, a majority of cantons in which a majority of those voting approve the ballot measure. A citizen-proposed law (i.e. initiative) cannot be passed in Switzerland at the national level if a majority of the people approve but a majority of the cantons disapprove (Kobach, 1993). For referendums or propositions in general terms (like the principle of a general revision of the Constitution), the majority of those voting is enough (Swiss constitution, 2005).

In 1890, when the provisions for Swiss national citizen lawmaking were being debated by civil society and government, the Swiss adopted the idea of double majorities from the United States Congess, in which House votes were to represent the people and Senate votes were to represent the states (Kobach, 1993). According to its supporters, this "legitimacy-rich" approach to national citizen lawmaking has been very successful. Kobach claims that Switzerland has had tandem successes both socially and economically which are matched by only a few other nations, and that the United States is not one of them. Kobach states at the end of his book, "Too often, observers deem Switzerland an oddity among political systems. It is more appropriate to regard it as a pioneer."

Unfortunately, I found the political spin in the states worth giving emphasis from the same wikipedia link above : –

Direct democracy was very much opposed by the framers of the United States Constitution and some signers of the Declaration of Independence. They saw a danger in majorities forcing their will on minorities. As a result, they advocated a representative democracy in the form of a constitutional republic over a direct democracy. For example, James Madison, in Federalist No.10 advocates a constitutional republic over direct democracy precisely to protect the individual from the will of the majority. He says,

"A pure democracy can admit no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will be felt by a majority, and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party. Hence it is, that democracies have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."

John Witherspoon, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence said,

"Pure democracy cannot subsist long nor be carried far into the departments of state — it is very subject to caprice and the madness of popular rage."

Alexander Hamilton said,

"That a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity…"

Interestingly, Edward Bernays, that wonderful spinmeister of double speak – worthy of debate, due to the outcome of much of his folly in the present world – had this to say at the opening of his (1928) book Propaganda [PDF] : –

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.

Our invisible governors are, in many cases, unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet.

They govern us by their qualities of natural leadership, their ability to supply needed ideas and by their key position in the social structure. Whatever attitude one chooses toward this condition, it remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons-a trifling fraction of our hundred and twenty million-who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.

It is not usually realized how necessary these invisible governors are to the orderly functioning of our group life. In theory, every citizen may vote for whom he pleases. Our Constitution does not envisage political parties as part of the mechanism of government, and its framers seem not to have pictured to themselves the existence in our national politics of anything like the modern political machine. But the American voters soon found that without organization and direction their individual votes, cast, perhaps, for dozens of hundreds of candidates, would produce nothing but confusion. Invisible government, in the shape of rudimentary political parties, arose almost overnight. Ever since then we have agreed, for the sake of simplicity and practicality, that party machines should narrow down the field of choice to two candidates, or at most three or four.

In theory, every citizen makes up his mind on public questions and matters of private conduct. In practice, if all men had to study for themselves the abstruse economic, political, and ethical data involved in every question, they would find it impossible to come to a conclusion without anything. We have voluntarily agreed to let an invisible government sift the data and high-spot the outstanding issue so that our field of choice shall be narrowed to practical proportions. From our leaders and the media they use to reach the public, we accept the evidence and the demarcation of issues bearing upon public question; from some ethical teacher, be it a minister, a favorite essayist, or merely prevailing opinion, we accept a standardized code of social conduct to which we conform most of the time.

We are governed, our minds molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.

Which leads me to use a relevant passage from page 770 of Alexis de Tocqueville’s 1835 book On Democracy in America. : –

I therefore believe that the kind of oppression that threatens democratic peoples is unlike any the world has seen before. Our contemporaries will find no image of it in their memories. I search in vain for an expression that exactly reproduces my idea of it and captures it fully. The old words “despotism” and “tyranny” will not do. The thing is new, hence I must try to define it, since I cannot give it a name.

I am trying to imagine what new features despotism might have in today’s world: I see an innumerable host of men, all alike and equal, endlessly hastening after petty and vulgar pleasures with which they fill their souls. Each of them, withdrawn into himself, is virtually a stranger to the fate of all the others. For him, his children and personal friends comprise the entire human race. As for the remainder of his fellow citizens, he lives alongside them but does not see them. He touches them but does not feel them. He exists only in himself and for himself, and if he still has a family, he no longer has a country.

Over these men stands an immense tutelary power, which assumes sole responsibility for securing their pleasure and watching over their fate. It is absolute, meticulous, regular, provident, and mild. It would resemble paternal authority if only its purpose were the same, namely, to prepare men for manhood. But on the contrary, it seeks only to keep them in childhood irrevocably. It likes citizens to rejoice, provided they think only of rejoicing. It works willingly for their happiness. It provides for their security, foresees and takes care of their needs, facilitates their pleasures, manages their most important affairs, directs their industry, regulates their successions, and divides their inheritances. Why not relieve them entirely of the trouble of thinking and the difficulty of living?

Every day it thus makes man’s use of his free will rarer and more futile. It circumscribes the action of the will more narrowly, and little by little robs each citizen of the use of his own faculties. ~ Alexis de Tocqueville ~ 1835

I sense that the work is almost complete, since the exportation of most every wealth – with its replacement of exhorbitant debt – complete a nation without appeal to their constitutional rights – has squandered; for want of a stance in sensibility, even what abilities are left remaining to resolve it …

~ Paul ~

  • Fri, Aug 19, 2011 - 03:34pm

    #73

    darbikrash

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    New Dawn Fades

[quote=Vanityfox451]

I sense that the work is almost complete, since the exportation of most every wealth – with its replacement of exhorbitant debt – complete a nation without appeal to their constitutional rights – has squandered; for want of a stance in sensibility, even what abilities are left remaining to resolve it …

~ Paul ~

[/quote]Really great work Paul, best post of the thread.

 

In a sparsely attended show in Manchester, England 1977, a group of four would-be anarchists, who could not play their instruments belted out noise and fury that captured a generations’ angst in a fit of inchoate rage. Unknown to the 46 angry young people and art rock fashsionistas in attendance, this was a historical moment that would define a generation.

The anger unleashed in the room that night would span several continents and capture an undefined aggression against an enemy so sublime, so elusive, that it could not be named. An embedded poison so thoroughly homogenized into the culture that even the intelligentsia could not pinpoint it’s source or purpose, only that it existed. Only later, as the disastrous trickle down economics of the Reagan and Thatcher administrations evolved into being, was the full thrust and dimension of the angst realized and focused.

Overlaid against the contextual backdrop of stadium concerts and corporate funded boy bands, this expression of rebellion was of little surprise, except for its veracity and widespread adoption ranging from hopelessly failed post industrial blighted towns in England to upper middle class suburban enclaves in Los Angeles.

But that is not what this story is about. That same night, in the same room some very different people had a very different reaction and response to this unleashed fury. That night, four very different people met to assimilate the rage and fury they had seen and felt into a predetermined “exit strategy” for those souls’ dispossessed. The modality of music was and is insufficient to trigger revolution, but serves well as a therapeutic group response to an individual identity crisis.

These four assimilated that raw aggression into the only extensible option available to this group, even as the night made history for a near term genre, its successor was almost simultaneously formed by the prescience of those participants.

The visualization of that moment was of unbridled rebellion imploding into a singularity of despair so dense, that no ray of hope could escape.

In the months that followed, a door was opened to an antechamber that was the future and logical extension of the rage of a generation. In stark contrast to the heat, noise and fury of the main room from which there was no exit, this small antechamber was cool, calm and curiously quiet. This was the chamber of despair, a despair so profoundly deep and morbid as to act like an amphetamine on a hyperactive personality, a counter intuitive narcotic lapse into a strange calm of being, of acceptance, a strange parabolic trajectory spinning at the speed of light from the chants of No Future to the nihilism of No Exit.

dk

 





 

 

 

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After pondering over the words to New Dawn Fades, I broached the subject with Ian, trying to make him confirm that they were only lyrics and bore no resemblance to his true feelings. It was a one-sided conversation. He refused to confirm or deny any of the points raised and he walked out of the house. I was left questioning myself instead, but did not feel close enough to anyone else to voice my fears."

~Deborah Curtis

 

 

  • Sat, Aug 20, 2011 - 04:28am

    #74
    ao

    ao

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    Vanityfox451 wrote:ao

[quote=Vanityfox451]

[quote=ao]

I sense that the work is almost complete, since the exportation of most every wealth – with its replacement of exhorbitant debt – complete a nation without appeal to their constitutional rights – has squandered; for want of a stance in sensibility, even what abilities are left remaining to resolve it …

~ Paul ~

[/quote]

Thanks Paul.  Good points.  

  • Sat, Aug 20, 2011 - 11:10pm

    #75
    jumblies

    jumblies

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    Blair: England’s riots shouldn’t be blamed on ‘moral decline’

Tony Blair, after lauching the UK into the illegal Iraq war (despite 1m people marching against it in London) he hilarously stepped down after 10 years and went to be Middle East envoy (nothing like stoking the fire you started). And he’s also on JP Morgan’s payroll. I despise him.

But on a positive note, someone let him write something. On a negative note it was published in a national paper.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/20/englands-riots-tony-blair

Tony Blair has launched a fierce attack on widespread claims that this summer’s riots showed that British society is in "moral decline". The former prime minister warns that rash talk of a broken society threatens to harm the country’s reputation abroad.

"The big cause is the group of alienated, disaffected youth who are outside the social mainstream and who live in a culture at odds with any canons of proper behaviour. And here’s where I simply don’t agree with much of the commentary. In my experience they are an absolutely specific problem that requires a deeply specific solution.

"The left says they’re victims of social deprivation, the right says they need to take personal responsibility for their actions; both just miss the point. A conventional social programme won’t help them; neither – on its own – will tougher penalties.

"The key is to understand that they aren’t symptomatic of society at large. Failure to get this leads to a completely muddle-headed analysis of what has gone wrong. Britain as a whole is not in the grip of some general ‘moral decline’."

As a whole no, but certainly the systemic corruption is indicative of moral decline at the top and this is trickling down.

He adds: "This is a hard thing to say, and I am of course aware that this too is generalisation. But the truth is that many of these people are from families that are profoundly dysfunctional, operating on completely different terms from the rest of society, either middle class or poor.

It wasn’t just some feral youths that were involved, it was quite a cross-section of society. But note he doesn’t mention the rich/upper class in that last sentence, probably because he knows that’s exactly how they act – opportunism and looting.

Anyway, I think Tony’s wrong. Again.

 

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