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Collapsenet Going Viral?

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  • Thu, Jun 10, 2010 - 11:04pm

    #51
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    Re: Collapsenet Going Viral?

Paul

How is a very difficult question. Why might be a little easier.

I would sit down with him over a few bottles of soda ( would love to go to his shop) and talk abut the old days when there were neighborhood soda shops with fountain drinks. They were usuall icecream parlors as well. THen maybe get around to globalization and how much better local products could be for the community. I remember the scene from Little Big Man when Dustin Hoffman is getting a soda from th etrunk of an elephant. I would also talk about the idea that gov would not be involved with recycling. Probably lots of ways I am sure you could think of once you were face to face.

Glad to have found the obsessive videos they are cool, and now bubbly

V

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2010 - 12:26am

    #52
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    Re: Collapsenet Going Viral?

Thanks everyone for the compliments!  Im very touched.

Id like to continue to discuss but Im on a variation of the Blues Brothers scenerio….   I got a 30 yr old mercedes with 200,000 miles on it fueled up and sitting on the downlow with 50 gals of waste vegetable oil, a jar of roasted peanuts, a mug of tea, my BOB, a cracked rib from Judo class last night and Im on a mission from God to drive 9 hours to get a friend married off to a Mormon gal in Salt Lake City.  And probably somewhere in there, Im going to get thoroughly sloshed.

It’s the truth.   Im sorry I dont have enough imagination to make that up….

Let’s all get along while Im gone, uh?   One love.

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2010 - 01:09am

    #53
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    Re: Collapsenet Going Viral?

[quote=mooselick7]

If you want to build a lifeboat with the locals…. You better not come to me with your own ideas of how things should be.   You better not condescend my way of life.    You better bring some useful skills or resources to me to earn your seat at the table of this community besides your own cultural vision or some other complexity of society.  You better not call attention to me.  You better not threaten my way of life in ANY way.  You better be humble and willing to workhard with an introverted, hard living bunch of people who just want to live their lives without interference. 

Those that have gotten their self-reliant skills from being just that.

[/quote]

Testify, Brother Mooselick!

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2010 - 02:08am

    #54
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    Re: Collapsenet Going Viral?

My understanding of why Michael Ruppert believes “Lifeboats” are necessary and why Chris Martenson urges us to build “Community” is that both men believe in resource depletion and in “Peak Oil” specifically.  CM and MR through their own writings as well as the writings on “Peak Oil” from the Authors on their recommended reading lists have both correlated population growth to energy growth.  In our present situation the relatively recent spike in World population from 1Billion to 6.5Billion+/- is a direct result of the discovery then subsequent exploitation of cheap, abundant oil.  If both Men are warning that this supply of oil is about to fall off a cliff then we all can infer that World population will also have to fall of a cliff, delayed or not.  How does population fall off a cliff?  It falls off a cliff through starvation, war and pestilence.  If you disagree with this please explain why.

Throughout the process of population destruction our survival will depend of our ability to provide all the is necessary for survival.  If we are able to do this then our survival is also dependent upon our ability to defend what we have from those who do not and wish to take it.  No man can do this on there own.  Nacci.

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2010 - 03:13am

    #55
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    Re: Collapsenet Going Viral?

Moose….great story. It was both entertaining and educational, a rare feat. I couldn’t help but think of an old TV series when I read it, Northern Exposure.

Thanks….Jeff

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2010 - 05:29pm

    #56
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    Re: Collapsenet Going Viral?

[quote=Nacci]Throughout the process of population destruction our survival will depend of our ability to provide all the is necessary for survival.  If we are able to do this then our survival is also dependent upon our ability to defend what we have from those who do not and wish to take it.  No man can do this on there own.[/quote]

I like to think a distinction will be seen between those who have a great stash, weapons and little productive capacity, and those who are obviously producers of what meets fundamental needs.  The latter will be good to have around and may be made subservient, especially if they are not part of a fairly obvious network best left to function, but probably won’t be blown away?  Something like this developed more than a thousand years ago, when the Vikings visited the British Isles and took away surpluses, leaving the competent land-lubbers to prepare the next batch for them.

What do you think?

David

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2010 - 07:03pm

    #57
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    Re: Collapsenet Going Viral?

[quote=deggleton]

[quote=Nacci]Throughout the process of population destruction our survival will depend of our ability to provide all the is necessary for survival.  If we are able to do this then our survival is also dependent upon our ability to defend what we have from those who do not and wish to take it.  No man can do this on there own.[/quote]

I like to think a distinction will be seen between those who have a great stash, weapons and little productive capacity, and those who are obviously producers of what meets fundamental needs.  The latter will be good to have around and may be made subservient, especially if they are not part of a fairly obvious network best left to function, but probably won’t be blown away?  Something like this developed more than a thousand years ago, when the Vikings visited the British Isles and took away surpluses, leaving the competent land-lubbers to prepare the next batch for them.

What do you think?

David

[/quote]

I’m sure that’s possible in some places, but IMO wouldn’t be the norm on a community level.  Firearms are too readily available for it to be a simple thing for an armed group of thugs to lord it over a food-producing community or exact tribute from them.  Even if they managed to ‘take control’ they’d have to be watching their backs 24/7, because the minute they drop their guard some resentful or vengeful locals would be sorely tempted to take them out.  Seems probably more likely on an individual level where an armed gang might hijack or regularly demand tribute from a more isolated family farm or ranch, those who either by choice or geography are doing it ‘on their own’.  Now if government agencies or military units start to get into the picture…. well all bets are off.  And that assumes more of a totalitarian state imposing its will rather than bandit lords trying to establish dominance and exact tribute over an area.  And even then they probably would still have problems with certain locals taking potshots when their guard is down. 

But this all makes an assumption that law and order will break down HARD and on a very big scale.  That is quite possible (and may be very likely in some areas), but IMO is not a 100% certain outcome on a nationwide level.  We will just have to find or build or continue building strong communities and see how the next few years play out.

– Nick

  • Fri, Jun 11, 2010 - 11:14pm

    #58
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    Re: Collapsenet Going Viral?

[quote=deggleton]I like to think a distinction will be seen between those who have a great stash, weapons and little productive capacity, and those who are obviously producers of what meets fundamental needs.  The latter will be good to have around and may be made subservient, What do you think? David [/quote]

David, I believe that this scenario will play itself out over and over again.  It is playing itself out right now and will no doubt reemerge in the future.  When we discuss how the majority of people in this world are clueless rarely do we further break this classification down.  There are people who are clueless and are both ruthless and heavily armed and there are also those who are clueless who are also largely self reliant but unable to defend themselves.  In the post oil collapse these two groups, if unable to adapt in time, seem destined to meet all over the world.  

If I were so inclined, my target on the Eastern U.S. would be the Amish,  They have everything that you would need to prosper in a post collapse world in place including some of the finest, most remote farm land available and they are largely pacifists. You would have to subjugate, not kill these people because they possess the generational knowledge necessary to continue production.  In addition these fertile Amish farm lands are located relatively close to several large urban area that will be unsustainable in a post oil collapse world such as DC., NYC, Philadelphia , Pittsburg, Cleveland and Columbus.  We have the makings right here of the scenario you just described. Nacci.

  • Sat, Jun 12, 2010 - 12:14am

    #59
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    Re: Collapsenet Going Viral?

I don’t have a lot of time so…..

Thanks for the tip!Frown

I know this was said in innocence, but really……….

That’s almost like saying:  “I know Dr. Martenson has PM’s and probably not the best shot because he wears glasses so….”   Not really, but you get the idea…I would hope.  In the future, I wouldn’t suggest putting “aggressive” idea’s out on the forum.

Cheers!

[quote=Nacci]

[quote=deggleton]I like to think a distinction will be seen between those who have a great stash, weapons and little productive capacity, and those who are obviously producers of what meets fundamental needs.  The latter will be good to have around and may be made subservient, What do you think? David [/quote]

David, I believe that this scenario will play itself out over and over again.  It is playing itself out right now and will no doubt reemerge in the future.  When we discuss how the majority of people in this world are clueless rarely do we further break this classification down.  There are people who are clueless and are both ruthless and heavily armed and there are also those who are clueless who are also largely self reliant but unable to defend themselves.  In the post oil collapse these two groups, if unable to adapt in time, seem destined to meet all over the world.  

If I were so inclined, my target on the Eastern U.S. would be the Amish,  They have everything that you would need to prosper in a post collapse world in place including some of the finest, most remote farm land available and they are largely pacifists. You would have to subjugate, not kill these people because they possess the generational knowledge necessary to continue production.  In addition these fertile Amish farm lands are located relatively close to several large urban area that will be unsustainable in a post oil collapse world such as DC., NYC, Philadelphia , Pittsburg, Cleveland and Columbus.  We have the makings right here of the scenario you just described. Nacci.

[/quote]

  • Sat, Jun 12, 2010 - 02:11am

    #60
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    Re: Collapsenet Going Viral?

[quote=LogansRun] I don’t have a lot of time so…..Thanks for the tip!Frown I know this was said in innocence, but really……….That’s almost like saying:  “I know Dr. Martenson has PM’s and probably not the best shot because he wears glasses so….”   Not really, but you get the idea…I would hope.  In the future, I wouldn’t suggest putting “aggressive” idea’s out on the forum. Cheers! [/quote]

This was not a tip nor was it said in innocence, it was an example used to illustrate deggleton’s suggested scenario in post # 55.  The same could easily be said for the Mennonites in Mexico which are surrounded by some of the most ruthless, heavily armed gangs in the world.  Whether CM is the place to voice such realities is up for debate.  Flag my post and let Jason decide.  Having said that, I read many of your posts LogansRun and respect you.  I can also see that some may view my cold analysis of the situation as beyond the pale.  This was not my intent.  Nacci.

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