Collapsenet Going Viral?
I think what V was trying to say is: Give it some time. Being as the site is new, was developed on fumes and rushed to get the lifeboat aspect started, it’s going to take quite a bit of time for MR and staff to get it perfect. Plus I think we all need to remember that we (meaning the people on CM.com and Collapse) are so few and far between, that the #’s are going to take some time to increase in all areas.
In my area there are a total of 4 people in a 100 mile radius that have signed up. That’s from a population of probably 7 million! That’s how few and far between we really are!
Amanda I suggest you chill for a little bit. the site has only been up for 48 hours. THis site was a nothing when it started. Mike is getting this going on a shoestring and with many volunteers. Comparing his site to Cm at this point in time is ridiculous.
I believe you are in New Zealand. I don’t think it is quite so bad there yet as it is in other places. I don’t imagine very many kiwis that are that interested in Collapse just yet but why don’t you get your friends and acquaintances on board and help spread the word.
As far as the criticism of Mike’s style I think it is way off base. He has been at this a long time longer than most on this site. I can’t blame the man for being emotional. I think it his sense of urgency and his obseving that the vast majority are sill invested in the status quo.
Maybe his audience is somewhat different than what people here are accustomed to. My impression is that most on this site are still living quite comfortable lives and are still very much plugged into the system. That is obviously not Mike’s reality, but his reality is every bit as valid as anyone else’s
It is time imho for a lot more cooperation and less competition. If we can’t do it with those who are basically on the same page but have a style we don’t like then what the hell is the point anyway.
Ps If a map were to be implemented here I would consider it the sincerest form of flattery.
1. Why are you suggesting I chill ? I feel very chilled thank you.
2. I am not comparing Mikes site to CM. I am saying the similarity is that they are both popular and therefore both draw audiences and therefore both could be able to provide a successful site which could link people of similar thinking. I was suggesting CM do this because Mikes site is very difficult to use. (in my case useless).
3. Asking me to get my friends and acquaintances on board to help spread the word is patronising. I don’t know how many of my posts you have read. Try this one (post# 209.)
4. I never critisised Mike. I simply said his site does not deliver what it promises. There is a difference.
5. I am not trying to offer “competition” to Mikes site. I think it is a good idea that doesn’t work the way he has done it. So therefore was looking for it to be done better – in a way that is useful to people. That may as a result “compete”. But competition was not the primary motivation for this idea.
I admire MR for exposing the CIA drug trade and for questioning 9/11 and I agree that peak oil is a major game changer. The thing that I don’t care for his apparent conclusion that civilization is dying and there is nothing we can do about it except prepare a lifeboat. Yes, we should prepare a lifeboat, but don’t for a second think there is nothing we can do to mitigate the outcome.
In his May 15, 2010 video, he shows that he doesn’t understand our monetary system. He states that government cannot continue printing money as that has never worked and it will lead to our inevitable collapse. He is dead wrong here and in the process of this flippant claim he has hidden our economic solution.
Government has not printed money, in any significant amounts, for almost 100 years. Government prints debt in the form of bonds. The Federal Reserve Notes that the Treasury prints are sold to banks for pennies, regardless of the denomination. Federal Reserve notes are not money, they are promises to pay with more promises to pay.
Jeepers guys. How about cooling it with the attacks?
Sorry I started this thread.
Morpheus, Im glad you started this thread because it has gotten people to think and discuss. The personal attacks are totally out of line – (use PM’s outside the thread please.) Beyond that the whole tone of the thread bothered me. Similar threads have bothered me as well. I couldnt really put my finger on why. So, I decided to sleep on it. About 2 am, I woke up with this way to convey why. Then slept like a baby.
I think if the readers may find something useful out of it.
This is a true story of the beginning of a local foods in a small WY town. It all began with an ad in the paper and radio to meet at the local library.
Meeting #1: About 50 in attendence, mostly ranchers and a folks from the local gardening group. But there were a smattering of people from different backgrounds. This dynamic of this meeting was, in retrospect, heartbreaking. The ranchers were quiet, shaking their heads and staring at the floor in disgust. The garden folks were also quiet and introverted. The ranchers and gardeners simply wanted to sell what they raised – excellent quality grass fed beef, lamb, free range eggs, pork, apples and garden vegies. Bear in mind, due to elevation and climate, this town has a very short growing season. Truly frost free days are from June 15th thru August – the rest of the time requires a whole lotta luck and skill in extending the seasons and choosing varieties of vegies.
What eventually shook out to dominate the meeting and decided the direction of the group was one beligerent, condescending battle ax of a group moderator and a core group of five ladies that had moved into the area within the last 5 to 10 years mostly from the west coast but one was from North Carolina and one was from Colorado. It was clear that they wanted a farmer’s market and a way to find producers. I remember one quoted vividly. “WE HAD A FARMER’S MARKET THAT WAS JUST SIMPLY FANTASTIC BACK IN PORTLAND. AND, I DONT KNOW WHY THIS BACKWARDSASS TOWN CANT HAVE THE SAME THING!”
The ranchers and gardeners TRIED to explain to them that they had no interest in a farmer’s market. There had been attempts in the past but it never took off because of the preparation time did not fit most people’s schedules. That most people didnt want all of one variety one week then all of another the next – which is a consequence of growing in a short season. That it wasnt practical for the ranchers to haul their meat around, keep it frozen in the back of a pickup on hot day and just to sell a few steaks. That most people just wanted choice cuts and they needed to sell the whole animal.
Now, what is heartbreaking about this meeting, in retrospect, is, OMG what a lifeboat! There was a HUGE wealth of knowledge with local, multi generational understanding of a land that is, in the lower 48, some of the most difficult to live in the US. Here was a group of people that not only knew how to survive and thrive on this land without all the benefits of fossil energy but some of them have actually LIVED into their 20s without electricity and tractors.
MEETING #2 (next week): The beligerent battle ax got a whole bunch of phone calls afterwards pertaining to her condescending attitude and resigned. She was replaced by a soft spoken local guy who had a good reputation as an ex-legislator. The core group of 5 came with their friends, among them was the county extension agent (who is considered by the locals to be a complete jackass), a zealous health inspector and a college culinary arts instructor. There were just 2 ranchers from the original group and one gardener who was a microbiologist from CA who had gotten fed up with the city life and started an organic vegetable farm on a small acreage. So now you got 12 or so consumers who want a farmers market and a way to find producers. And, 3 producers.
BTW 3 out of the core group of 5 were vegetarians. In this part of the world, a vegetarian living off the land here WOULD starve to death.
So then this meeting became dominated by the health inspector who quoted verbatim a bunch of health codified rules and laws. Said that we could not just buy meat from a producer legally. That the producers had to have it processed by an WY state approved facility which is different from a out of state processing facility. That products like cabbage rolls, jellies, canned saurerkraut and pickles had to be produced in a WY state approved kitchen. (We looked into the cost of one of these kitchens =$10K) The culinary arts instructor showed off her cookbook filled with meatless dishes with vegetables that dont grow here. That the sale of raw milk was illegal. That we should be careful of all eggs that are ungraded. The core group nodded in appreciation.
One of the core group said to the health inspector that those regulations didnt seem right because a Hutterite colony from out of state was selling produce in a nearby town and that their food was “Simply delicious”. The health inspector ran them out of town the following week. We now must drive to a pasture just a few hundred feet across the state line to get our meat and produce from them.
Well, dear readers, you get the picture. I attended two more meetings. None of the producers were at those. The membership to the group cost $100 and it cost $10 a table for a table at the farmers market. The core group of 5 published a beautiful, full color, well written pamphlet with eight or so names of producers on it (who I wouldnt buy a stick of gum from) and about a page and 1/2 about the benefits of whole foods. A few were of the core were on the radio declaring their success. There was a farmers market from Memorial Day thru Labor day that had three to four tables in it, usually a honey producer, two people with crafts: leatherwork or baskets, one table with the local high priced greenhouse and the CA microbiologist with a small table of maybe $20 of sick looking vegetables. That was a few years ago, I havent seen or heard about the farmer’s market or the directory since.
Now what does this have to do with collapsenet and lifeboats? First of all, we have people who can help build lifeboats all around us. They are self-reiliant, independent folks who don’t call attention to themselves and quite frankly dont need you. They know where to take care of their needs. If you are running around saying, “The sky is falling! We need to build a lifeboat.!” They are going to shake their heads in disgust, go to their lifeboat, batten down the hatches, get a few more supplies for the ride, clean and load the guns.
For example, I have an 85 yo next door neighbor who can barely walk but has lived in my small town all her life. She grew up without indoor plumbing or electricity. She has been snowed in for up to three weeks in the recent past without electricity or access to town. She has 3 different ways to heat her house and cook. She gets some help from neighbors here and there but has more than a years supply of canned food from her garden. And I pity the fool who tries to bother her. She is a dear friend an excellent resource of the local lore, but it took more than a year to get to know her and earn her trust.
My family has our own lifeboat. We have fruit trees, a greenhouse, chickens, rabbits, a shop full of tools and, between the wife and I, a multitude of skills for self reliant living. Some of those core group of 5 live nearby and they are the last people I want around me when things get tough. I dont have time for them. I have what I need. I get excellent quality, locally raised grass fed beef, pork, wild game, raw goats milk, free range eggs and vegies from the greenhouse. I have friends throughout the community whom I share resources with – everything from produce to martial arts instruction to gunsmithing to chiropractic sessions. I meet up with the Hutterites 100 ft across the state line for smoked chickens, hams, cabbages for saurerkraut, cabbage rolls, sweet corn and melons. All of this is hedging around legalities and under the radar. If I supported all the fledging beginnings of Codex Alimetntrus and the like, well lets just say I might as well just live in a box out of the friggin Walmart.
So, even though I will and have supported Ruppert’s efforts. There is a certain hard reality here that everyone out there needs to get. If you want to build a lifeboat with the locals…. You better not come to me with your own ideas of how things should be. You better not condescend my way of life. You better bring some useful skills or resources to me to earn your seat at the table of this community besides your own cultural vision or some other complexity of society. You better not call attention to me. You better not threaten my way of life in ANY way. You better be humble and willing to workhard with an introverted, hard living bunch of people who just want to live their lives without interference.
Those that have gotten their self-reliant skills from being just that.
This is no attack on anyone in particular. It is addressing an attitude that I see prevailing as things get tough.
Jeepers guys. How about cooling it with the attacks?
Sorry I started this thread.
Very interesting thread though that seems to really expose participant’s views. You must have hit some rather raw nerves. Almost as if you stuck a stick into a beehive and got an angry swarm of bees.
My suspicion about MR is that he was targetted for assasination but got away and so was discredited and broken. What exactly was the nature and cause of his health problems? I think the guy is lucky to still be alive after all the messing he’s done with TPTB.
Please accept my appologies. I don’t want to be classed as one of the people on this site who attack others. Sorry. I will try to be less irritable with my rebuttals next time.
And now on with the discussion:
Mooselick, I really enjoyed reading your post. You make a really interesting point. However I would have to say this. The meeting you had to start up a farmers market was very structured and it was almost business like. I think this is very different from the way it can work being in contact with like minded people. I am not sure MR is suggesting that all these people (necessarily) build a structured and organised lifeboat together, rather than they get support and comfort from knowing other people think like they do. They can share ideas on what they are doing and how and why. It really is another way of building community. So I guess the point is that there are some differences.
I could totally visualise how the whole thing went with that farmers market. It made me cringe. But I don’t see that the same structure would be necessary as a result of MR’s site. So I am not sure the outcome would be the same. I suppose it would depend what you want out of the site.
I for one, just wanted to have a cup of coffee and a chat to get to know other people in the area doing the same thing I am. And take it from there as to how the relationship went …
(As an aside. I am so fed up with local authorities here in NZ too. They have closed down the local markets where people have sold their home made jams and pickles for over a decade, because the produce was not made in a commercial kitchen. Despite nobody being sick in all that time. The local bee keeper who sold his honey can’t sell it because the place where he processes it in to containers does not have the required stud height in the ceiling. The ceiling is too low. So therefore it does not meet regulations. So he can’t sell his honey. It is maddening especially in a world where we need these small markets more than ever (soon). I am wondering if local currency would get around that – as we wouldn’t be trading, we would be “swapping”. You could even call it gifting. But this is a complete diversion off topic.)
I enjoyed your post very much, because it is well thought out, and you moved me forward with each paragraph; I also didn’t want it to stop so soon, so more please!!!
What I want to say is that, this is about circles of influence. That being, how our own live’s impact upon others, and they upon us, with our reference point that we use as a marker for how we see the world from our viewpoint, off into the horizon.
I teach. I teach people from all walks of life about Peak Oil and its future effects. I’m mostly calm, precise and cool headed, and use humour in doing it. The thing is, most, if not all of these people I teach aren’t self sufficient. Most, if not all, are living a really nice life right now here. They think things are going to go on eternally. Some, are close to retirement, and have worked all of their lives paying into a pension; or are young, with what appears to be their whole life infront of them like a map of how they’ve been told the World is supposed to be, rather than the way that it really is to you and I.
How can I teach them, that the ideal’s that they hold dear about what it is that makes this blue pearl spin in space every day are truthfully about. How can I give them the momentous push that’ll open their eyes? I don’t want to sell and pedal ‘fear’, yet I don’t want to give too much ‘nice’ either. What on earth is the balance?
So far this year, I’ve turned about £630,000 worth of equity into cash and precious metals for 4 unrelated couple’s, who previously had absolutely no idea about the collapsing housing market, quantitative easing or peak oil. They were utterly innocent. Fifty percent of them needed to be given a firm push in the right direction that wasn’t sugar coated. All of them have since worked hard in both understanding fully what the big picture is, and helping friends and family do the same. Think how many people I’ve effected in a few short months?
I’m going to add a crunch to this post because, I’d like others to think about what I’m saying too. After all, you’ve read my posts from time to time, and I believe I am consistent enough for you to know that I give a damn about you and every member of this forum with a pulse and a conscience …
Here’s the crunch: –
How in the hell can I tell this beautiful man about peak oil …
~ VF ~
Read your post 3 times.
Now I’m glad this thread was started too.
Excellent post Moose! I agree wholeheartedly! I’m not at your level, but I will never expect anyone to take care of me and mine, nor will I bring others down for my ego! Some of my family live in “Cowboy” land and live very similar lives to your own. And they take the exact same attitude to their lives…..which I personally think is an outstanding way of life! Thanks for sharing!
I have nothing but good things to say about Rupperts new sight and work. Without his movie Collapse I would not have found CM’s work. He opened my eyes to what we are facing and made me take the first step forward. For that I owe him my gratitude. He does wear his emotions on his sleeve, but I am the same way. Hiding my true emotions is not something either of us do well. He is doing the best he can and that is all anyone can ask. It is very childish to criticize someone for trying to do the right thing. We are all in this flaming plane going in for a rough landing. I thank god I found the movie Collapse and CM’s work. If it has done anything it has bought me and my family more time to get ready. Sammy