Climate Change: Its Not About Climate

Login or register to post comments Last Post 0 reads   85 posts
Viewing 10 posts - 41 through 50 (of 85 total)
  • Thu, Apr 08, 2021 - 11:26am

    #43

    travissidelinger

    Status Bronze Member (Offline)

    Joined: Nov 17 2010

    Posts: 300

    count placeholder1

    Climate Change: Its Not About Climate

This is one of those problems that is just sad to watch.  We can see what’s happening, and we know what needs done, but we are powerless to stop it.

It’s like that donut sitting on the counter.  I know I shouldn’t eat it.  I know what will happen when I do.  But, I can’t stop myself from taking a bite, and then taking another bite.

For the record, I have not eaten a donut in over ten years.  Now chocolate on the other hand…

We all know that if we stop putting CO2 into the atmosphere it will give the other guys an economic advantage in a very competitive global system.

Unfortunately, climate is not going to matter until it actually matters.

The Truffula Trees won’t matter until the very last one is cut down.

We’ve been close a few times now to global food production collapse.  That “lucky” weather where the rains let up just enough to get things planted between heavy rains, or that one really needed rain shower after two months of bone dry.  I predict over the next decade we have at least a 50% of a major climate induced food shortage.

I’m going to suggest here that it doesn’t matter what the elites do.  Half a billion starving and desperate refuges will overwhelm anything they have planned.  I suppose they could try to convince them to fight and kill each other.  But, it can also be hard to predict what mobs will actually do.

One thing I try to do is to think of this issue from the inverse perspective.  What would the world look like if we were capable of not over exploiting resources for economic gain?  What would people have to be like if these did value sustainable practices?  What would our social interactions and laws be like?

Think of the Onceler cutting down those Truffula trees.  Say he wasn’t able to self regulate his tree harvesting, or his level of sustainable was different then what his neighbor thought was sustainable.  Would a government official need to come in and tell him how many trees it was okay to cut down?  What if he though, “well just one extra tree this month and I can get my daughter that bicycle she wants”.  Would neighbors need to socially shame him for cutting too many trees?  Would he need to first do an extensive study of the forest and all it’s impacts before he’s permitted to cut the first tree.  That all sounds too complex to manage and get right for every possible situation all across the planet.

Would other forms of economic systems do this better?  Maybe different forms of Communism could be sustainable.

Is religion a solution to this problem?  Maybe people feeling they have a spiritual connection with nature could help solve this problem.

I think the simple answer is, “There are just too many people on planet earth.”  Nothing is going to change until we have a large population collapse, 80% or more.  If we get lucky, that will be something like a virus where humans are removed, but functional complex ecosystems will remain.  If we break the climate, what remains may not be able to support many large mammals for a while

Just my two cents.

-Travis

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2021 - 11:33am

    #44
    davefairtex

    davefairtex

    Status Member (Offline)

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2909

    count placeholder3

    the ticking clock

jturbo-

Right.  Your scenario is a more mainstream analysis.  Normally I’d be on board.  But post-COVID, I do not think that things that are happening have a “standard” explanation because of what I have called “the ticking clock.”

The push to remove the Bad Orange Man from power was abnormal – and absolutely relentless.  To get this done, “they” appear willing to sacrifice the multi-generational credibility of the Western national health establishment (“No Treatments For You”) – and indeed, the entire basis for Western government – for what appeared to be an incredibly short-term political goal.

If things proceed normally, this con will be exposed, and the credibility loss will be off-the-charts bad.  No rational person or group, during a normal time, would agree to destroy the credibility of the “establishment” in this way.  Its just a terrible idea.  “They” are throwing away generations of credibility to get their way for about 2-3 years.  After some time passes, things will blow up spectacularly.  Once the books are written, and people put things together, and the truth comes out – it just gets really ugly.

“You mean you guys killed off my grandma – all the Grandma’s in Western Civilization – for…what, exactly?”

Seriously.  They’ll look like Nazis.  Once the truth comes out.  That won’t go over well at all.

So – why?  I actually don’t know the answer.  I’m guessing.  They’ve sacrificed all the Grandma’s of the West for some reason.  I am just not sure what that reason is.

All I know is, this is a critical time right now.  There is a ticking clock of some sort – a time-limited event where they’re willing to throw the credibility of government of Western Civ right on the fire in order to get their way for the next 2-3 years.

This is not for “Pharma profits” – nor is it just about getting rid of the Bad Orange Man.

There is something more going on.  It has a time fuse.  There is a very short window for “them” to act, and they’re willing to literally destroy faith in government in order to get their way over the next 2 years.  What’s the hurry?

That’s what I’m trying to figure out.

Peak Oil?  That would fit.

So would a solar minimum.

Any other ideas?  I’m totally open.  It has to be a once-in-a-multiple-generation event though.  With a short time fuse, that, once past, is forever lost.

What do you think it might be?

Fauci threw all our Grandmas into the fire.  He didn’t do this for no reason.  None of them did.  They know there will be a reckoning.  The prize must be immense.  Or there’s a gun to their head.  I’m not sure which.

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2021 - 11:45am

    #45

    Mark_BC

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 606

    count placeholder4

    Climate Change: Its Not About Climate

So, in your mind the “science” is settled on something as complicated as the earth’s atmosphere. (Please note that weather forecasters can’t even get the forecast right the next day, let alone in the far, far future.) It must not bother you that all the dire predictions concerning catastrophic climate outcomes in the past have come and gone … only to be replaced with more dire warnings.

I disagree with any assertion that the science is settled. By definition, science is never settled.

Similarly, I disagree with any assertion that we can’t move forward with actions if the science isn’t settled. Because it is never settled. If we waited for science to be settled we’d never make any decision based on that science, which then makes science worthless doesn’t  it? What science can provide however is a body of evidence and logic which can be used to weigh different options and risks moving forward with different likely outcomes. From these, policymakers make decisions. I’m not debating about whether those policymakers are virtuous, justified, representative of the optimal course of humanity’s future, or even that they are sane. But, this is the opportunity science presents.

What I find very non-PP like in this thread is the reliance on deciding whether AGW is real or not based on what our “leaders” and “managers” are doing. I disagree that “they should already know this” (referring to them understanding the science behind AGW — extremely unlikely). While analyzing their actions is an interesting line of thought to follow, it has zero relevance to the science. I think we have mostly determined that our “managers” are borderline insane. Furthermore, despite the hysterics from people like Al Gore, the catastrophic impacts from AGW wouldn’t be felt for many decades, long beyond our current managers’ tenure.

Just because Covid is being used for ulterior political agendas, doesn’t mean the virus isn’t real.

Just because AGW is being used for ulterior political agendas doesn’t mean humans aren’t impacting climate to the warm side.

There are many more examples. Remember when Al Gore said the Arctic would be ice-free by the mid 2010 decade? He made that prediction about a dozen years prior. Hmmm. Did that happen? I must have missed it completely.

Al Gore is a politician, and therefore should not be taken seriously. If you look at the science, you see a steady linear decrease in Arctic Sea Ice and related parameters. No hockey stick, but a clear trend.

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

https://nsidc.org/greenland-today/2020/11/greenlands-2020-melt-season-in-review/

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2021 - 11:56am   (Reply to #36)

    #46
    Grover

    Grover

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 1093

    count placeholder1

    Nothing Really Changes

brushhog wrote:

Grover, that was fantastic. Thanks. Have a look at the work of Valentina Zarkova on solar cycles and the coming solar minimum.

Thanks for the kind words, brushhog! I have looked at Professor Zharkova’s work. She has modeled the sun as a double dynamo and her model has gotten 95% accuracy when back casting historical solar data. According to her model, she’s predicting the next 2 solar cycles to be diminished – similar to SC24. She’s not willing to predict beyond 2 cycles.

I can’t remember where I read it, but there’s strong correlation between the characteristics of the end of the prior solar cycle and the strength of the next cycle. Based on that analysis, SC25’s strength will be slightly reduced from SC24. At the end of SC25, they can predict SC26’s strength.

We’re heading into a grand solar minimum. Will the depth and breadth be more like the Maunder Minimum or the Dalton Minimum? Will it be another “Little Ice Age” or just a period of massive periodic, localized crop failures? At this point, we just don’t know.

It is interesting to research and study human behavior as it relates to warming and cooling cycles. For instance, the witch trials which seemed to spontaneously pop up and spread all over Europe before coming to America are curiously aligned with the solar minimum and the cooling cycle [ mini-ice age ] of the middle ages.

As the climate changed back in the middle ages humans blamed each other. Crops froze in the fields in June, winters became harsh, people starved….. there must be SOMEONE to blame for it. Despite our smart phones, automobiles, and television sets, at our core, human nature remains exactly as it was thousands of years ago.

Wow! I never put that together. Chris talks about rats in a cage with electric shocks being administered. When it is just 1 rat, it hunkers down stoically since there is nothing it can do about it. When there are more rats, they viciously attack one another when a shock comes. Our so-called leaders instinctively know this and assign blame to a scapegoat faction for the majority to attack. The majority gets to feel as if they’ve removed the problem and thank the “leaders” for delivering a scapegoat. Once the problem naturally ends, the remaining people give praise to the leaders for solving the problem.

I remember reading about a fungus that would consume wheat and leave behind a hallucinogenic byproduct. Those who consumed the tainted wheat would have mental distress accompanied by verbal outbursts and bizarre physical behavior. Not knowing any better, others would assume the person was possessed or a witch. (Time to tinder up another human BBQ.)

During times-of-plenty, tainted wheat was disposed. After all, who would want to eat it if there were enough quality wheat available. When the harvest was short, compromises needed to be made or they’d starve. The science wasn’t developed enough back then to determine if the fungus was detrimental or not. Would you rather starve?

As you noted, brushhog, human nature never changes. Given the same inputs, humans will generally generate the same outputs. Those who want to control us, know this instinctively. They want to divide us into factions so we fight each other rather than them – just like the rats in an electrified cage.

What amazes me is that we continue to buy it today. I suppose it is because there is just too much to know. Most people don’t know much about science and need to have it interpreted to them in pre-digested packets. When there is a dispute with their belief systems, they shut down and glom onto those comforting beliefs. It doesn’t matter if it is witches, electric shock, climate change, or Red VS Blue. It’s easier to blame a scapegoat than to find the true source of the problem.

Grover

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2021 - 11:59am   (Reply to #36)

    #47

    jturbo68

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

    Posts: 270

    count placeholder1

    Climate Change: Its Not About Climate

 

Because someone was blamed for something incorrectly therefore anytime you blame someone you are incorrect. Lets name this logical fallacy. Surely it already has a name.

Witches blamed for the Little Ice age = wrong, there for humans blamed for climate change = wrong.  Good Grief! Can we really think this?

Were there thousands of scientists studying for decades and coming up with a cause for the little ice age and then determining that it was witches?

If so, then you might have a point.  If not, then it is just humans acting irrationally.

We only have science to try and determine the cause of climate change.  And the bulk of those experts are telling us the what and why this is happening.

 

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2021 - 12:23pm   (Reply to #43)

    #48
    Grover

    Grover

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 1093

    count placeholder3

    How To Get 80% Reduction

travissidelinger wrote:

I think the simple answer is, “There are just too many people on planet earth.”  Nothing is going to change until we have a large population collapse, 80% or more.  If we get lucky, that will be something like a virus where humans are removed, but functional complex ecosystems will remain.  If we break the climate, what remains may not be able to support many large mammals for a while

Travis,

I agree with you. I saw this problem when the earth’s population was less than half of what it is now. I loved my children too much to let them be born. (I’ve never heard them complain about not being born.) My contribution amounted to zero.

The big boyz know that the earth is a finite system. They know how valuable fossil fuels are. They know that robotics and artificial intelligence are replacing many of the workers they needed to run their factories just a few years before. They know that people who don’t earn their existence need to be supported by taxes on the successful. Eventually, they’ll be the only ones capable of paying the enormous taxes needed to support the majority.

What better way to remove the useless eaters than to give them a vaccine that has a time bomb embedded. First, convince the populace that there is a terrible disease that will maim or kill a vast majority (note that the truth of the situation isn’t as important as the perception.) Then, convince them that they need to get the vaccination to save themselves and the rest of society. Full deployment has to happen as quickly as possible. Why? Eventually, the time bomb will detonate. Once that happens, further vaccination won’t be acceptable.

One thing I’ve noticed is that the boyz behind the curtain don’t like to get their hands dirty. They want us to do the dirty work for them. If an experimental vaccine happens to cause all the mayhem, they can pretend that they didn’t know that could happen. Even though it was a designed feature, they can pretend that it was unintentional while pointing fingers elsewhere.

Grover

 

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2021 - 12:25pm   (Reply to #36)

    #49
    Steven Kelso

    Steven Kelso

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 22 2018

    Posts: 296

    count placeholder1

    Tainted Rye and the Salem Trials

They had Ergot poisoning from rye.

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2021 - 12:36pm   (Reply to #44)

    #50
    Steven Kelso

    Steven Kelso

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 22 2018

    Posts: 296

    count placeholder3

    Bullseye. Now only if we could see the target!

There is something more going on.  It has a time fuse.  There is a very short window for “them” to act, and they’re willing to literally destroy faith in government in order to get their way over the next 2 years.  What’s the hurry?

Nail meet hammer.
Many of us are used to observing glacial changes as part of larger (clandestine) plans. Or at least, we can see what relationships cause and effect have, even decades apart.

Thanks, Dave. I know now that I’m not the only one who senses this preternatural urgency that’s almost palpable. This is why I keep bringing up the UFO/UAP topic. Even when the Modus operandi is to ram uncomfortable policies through, to drop aliens on top of everything else (with a six month deadline) is just way too much.

Something big is coming.

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2021 - 12:39pm

    #51
    RandomMike

    RandomMike

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

    Joined: Mar 12 2020

    Posts: 388

    count placeholder0

    Reply To: Climate Change: Its Not About Climate

DF: ticking you hear is the aliens’ saucer engines cooling down, before they emerge and get to work, doing what the donors agreed to.

  • Thu, Apr 08, 2021 - 12:58pm   (Reply to #44)

    #52
    Grover

    Grover

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 1093

    count placeholder2

    Climate Change: Its Not About Climate

davefairtex wrote:

All I know is, this is a critical time right now.  There is a ticking clock of some sort – a time-limited event where they’re willing to throw the credibility of government of Western Civ right on the fire in order to get their way for the next 2-3 years.

Dave,

This is all my speculation. We’re seeing coordinated efforts across the world. Biden’s “Build Back Better” was plagiarized from Britain’s Johnson, Canada’s Trudeau, or directly from the World Economic Forum. Was it merely a coincidence that Bill Gates hosted Event 201 (concerning a pandemic viral outbreak) just before the Wuhan virus was intentionally/accidentally released? When the outbreak happened, there wasn’t any common knowledge about how to combat it. Folks were instructed to go home and hope it resolves itself. When they came back to the hospital with major life-threatening complications, intubation appeared to be the only solution. By then, it was too late and many with the disease died a horrible death.

We were inundated with the Covid news cycle and the number of deaths. Our politicians knew they’d get blamed if they didn’t lock us down. So, they did. Anyone who saw through the gauze and reported it on social media were censored. The censorship grew to engulf any Bad Orange Man supporters. As election day came closer fake polls were circulated saying that Biden would win in a landslide. Any questions about voting integrity were considered conspiracy theory and censored.

When Trump questioned the results and his people filed suits, those suits were dismissed. Even the suit that Texas AG filed against Pennsylvania was dismissed by the Supreme Court. Then, when he held a rally on January 6th to question the integrity of 5 States’ voting system. That turned into an occupation of government buildings and lead to his second impeachment. Why impeach a President who accepted defeat? To keep him from running in 2024. Eventually, Biden got in office.

Even though Biden said that only a tyrant would govern via Executive Orders, he signed more Executive Orders his first day than any other President. Nobody in the press seems to have any memory or considers it hypocritical that he did this. Since then, we’ve had a barrage of Executive Orders – most to remove Trump’s accomplishments.

Now, here’s the meat of my speculation. They intend to change long held rules in government designed to protect the minority party. All 3 chambers are controlled by the Dems. If they can change the system – get rid of the filibuster, get rid of the electoral college, stuff the Supreme Court, expand electronic voting, get rid of (fill in the blank) they can guarantee perpetual employment. They need to do this before the 2022 elections upset the balance of power.

Grover

PS – Thanks for the kind words in your earlier post. brushhog wrote a poignant piece concerning the same post and I responded to him rather than you. Slighting was not intended.

Viewing 10 posts - 41 through 50 (of 85 total)

Login or Register to post comments