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Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is NOT a Pollutant

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  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 05:43pm

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    gtazman

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    Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is NOT a Pollutant

I want to share some basic information just so everybody can get the facts straight and leave out the politics.

"CO2 for different people has different attractions. After all, what is it? – it’s not a pollutant, it’s a product of every living creature’s breathing, it’s the product of all plant respiration, it is essential for plant life and photosynthesis, it’s a product of all industrial burning, it’s a product of driving – I mean, if you ever wanted a leverage point to control everything from exhalation to driving, this would be a dream. So it has a kind of fundamental attractiveness to bureaucratic mentality." – Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Atmospheric Science, MIT

 "CO2 is not a pollutant. In simple terms, CO2 is plant food. The green world we see around us would disappear if not for atmospheric CO2. These plants largely evolved at a time when the atmospheric CO2 concentration was many times what it is today. Indeed, numerous studies indicate the present biosphere is being invigorated by the human-induced rise of CO2. In and of itself, therefore, the increasing concentration of CO2 does not pose a toxic risk to the planet." – John R. Christy, Ph.D. Professor of Atmospheric Sciences, University of Alabama

"Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant but a naturally occurring, beneficial trace gas in the atmosphere. For the past few million years, the Earth has existed in a state of relative carbon dioxide starvation compared with earlier periods. There is no empirical evidence that levels double or even triple those of today will be harmful, climatically or otherwise. As a vital element in plant photosynthesis, carbon dioxide is the basis of the planetary food chain – literally the staff of life. Its increase in the atmosphere leads mainly to the greening of the planet. To label carbon dioxide a "pollutant" is an abuse of language, logic and science." – Robert M. Carter, Ph.D. Professor of Environmental and Earth Sciences, James Cook University

"Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. On the contrary, it makes crops and forests grow faster. Economic analysis has demonstrated that more CO2 and a warmer climate will raise GNP and therefore average income. It’s axiomatic that bureaucracies always want to expand their scope of operations. This is especially true of EPA, which is primarily a regulatory agency. As air and water pollution disappear as prime issues, as acid rain and stratospheric-ozone depletion fade from public view, climate change seems like the best growth area for regulators. It has the additional glamour of being international and therefore appeals to those who favor world governance over national sovereignty. Therefore, labeling carbon dioxide, the product of fossil-fuel burning, as a pollutant has a high priority for EPA as a first step in that direction." – S. Fred Singer, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences, University of Virginia

"Carbon and CO2 (carbon dioxide) are fundamental for all life on Earth. CO2 is a colorless, odorless, non-toxic gas. CO2 is product of our breathing, and is used in numerous common applications like fire extinguishers, baking soda, carbonated drinks, life jackets, cooling agent, etc. Plants’ photosynthesis consume CO2 from the air when the plants make their carbohydrates, which bring the CO2 back to the air again when the plants rot or are being burned." – Tom V. Segalstad, Ph.D. Professor of Environmental Geology, University of Oslo

"To suddenly label CO2 as a "pollutant" is a disservice to a gas that has played an enormous role in the development and sustainability of all life on this wonderful Earth. Mother Earth has clearly ruled that CO2 is not a pollutant." – Robert C. Balling Jr., Ph.D. Professor of Climatology, Arizona State University

"Many chemicals are absolutely necessary for humans to live, for instance oxygen. Just as necessary, human metabolism produces by-products that are exhaled, like carbon dioxide and water vapor. So, the production of carbon dioxide is necessary, on the most basic level, for humans to survive. The carbon dioxide that is emitted as part of a wide variety of natural processes is, in turn, necessary for vegetation to live. It turns out that most vegetation is somewhat ‘starved’ for carbon dioxide, as experiments have shown that a wide variety of plants grow faster, and are more drought tolerant, in the presence of doubled carbon dioxide concentrations. Fertilization of the global atmosphere with the extra CO2 that mankind’s activities have emitted in the last century is believed to have helped increase agricultural productivity. In short, carbon dioxide is a natural part of our environment, necessary for life, both as ‘food’ and as a by-product." – Roy Spencer, Ph.D. Meteorology

"I am at a loss to understand why anyone would regard carbon dioxide as a pollutant. Carbon dioxide, a natural gas produced by human respiration, is a plant nutrient that is beneficial both for people and for the natural environment. It promotes plant growth and reforestation. Faster-growing trees mean lower housing costs for consumers and more habitat for wild species. Higher agricultural yields from carbon dioxide fertilization will result in lower food prices and will facilitate conservation by limiting the need to convert wild areas to arable land." – David Deming, Ph.D. Professor of Geology and Geophysics, University of Oklahoma

"Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. It is a colorless, odorless trace gas that actually sustains life on this planet. Consider the simple dynamics of human energy acquisition, which occurs daily across the globe. We eat plants directly, or we consume animals that have fed upon plants, to obtain the energy we need. But where do plants get their energy? Plants produce their own energy during a process called photosynthesis, which uses sunlight to combine water and carbon dioxide into sugars for supporting overall growth and development. Hence, CO2 is the primary raw material that plants depend upon for their existence. Because plants reside beneath animals (including humans) on the food chain, their healthy existence ultimately determines our own. Carbon dioxide can hardly be labeled a pollutant, for it is the basic substrate that allows life to persist on Earth." – Keith E. Idso, Ph.D. Botany

"Atmospheric CO2 is required for life by both plants and animals. It is the sole source of carbon in all of the protein, carbohydrate, fat, and other organic molecules of which living things are constructed. Plants extract carbon from atmospheric CO2 and are thereby fertilized. Animals obtain their carbon from plants. Without atmospheric CO2, none of the life we see on Earth would exist. Water, oxygen, and carbon dioxide are the three most important substances that make life possible. They are surely not environmental pollutants." – Arthur B. Robinson, Ph.D. Professor of Chemistry

"Carbon Dioxide (CO2) – A colourless, odourless gas produced by burning carbon and organic compounds and by respiration, and absorbed by plants in photosynthesis." – Compact Oxford English Dictionary

"Carbon Dioxide (CO2) – A heavy colorless odorless atmospheric gas. Source: respiration, combustion. Use: during photosynthesis, in refrigeration, carbonated drinks, fire extinguishers." – Encarta Dictionary

"Carbon Dioxide (CO2) – A heavy colorless gas that does not support combustion, dissolves in water to form carbonic acid, is formed especially in animal respiration and in the decay or combustion of animal and vegetable matter, is absorbed from the air by plants in photosynthesis, and is used in the carbonation of beverages."Merriam-Webster Dictionary

"Carbon Dioxide (CO2) – A colorless, odorless, incombustible gas, CO2, formed during respiration, combustion, and organic decomposition and used in food refrigeration, carbonated beverages, inert atmospheres, fire extinguishers, and aerosols." – The American Heritage Dictionary

"Carbon Dioxide (CO2) – A colorless, odorless, incombustible gas that is produced naturally in breathing, combustion, and decomposition, and commercially for use in dry ice, fire extinguishers, and carbonated beverages." – Wordsmyth Dictionary

Carbon Dioxide


– Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is a natural part of Earth’s Atmosphere (NASA)
– Carbon Dioxide (CO2) levels in the atmosphere have risen from 0.028% to 0.038% (380ppm) over the past 100 years (IPCC)
– Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is not toxic until 5% (50,000ppm) concentration (Source)
– Any detrimental effects of Carbon Dioxide (CO2) including chronic exposure to 3% (30,000ppm) are reversible (Source)
– OSHA, NIOSH, and ACGIH occupational exposure standards are 0.5% (5,000 ppm) Carbon Dioxide (CO2) (Source)

Article Link: http://www.populartechnology.net/2008/11/carbon-dioxide-co2-is-not-pollution.html

  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 06:44pm

    #2
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is NOT a Pollutant

Yea, I agree. CO^2 is a natural gas.
The toxic chemicals we synthesize is what we should be afraid of.

  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 07:27pm

    #3
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    Re: Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is NOT a Pollutant

[quote=gtazman]

I want to share some basic information just so everybody can get the facts straight and leave out the politics.[/quote]

 

Then why did you post this drivel?

Not a pollutant, hmm. And alcohol is not a poison? Then don’t you go guzzle a liter of everclear and we’ll confirm that it’s not poisonous.

Then we’ll also know if pumping ecocidal and genocidal levels of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere is "polluting" or not.  

  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 08:09pm

    #4
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    Re: Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is NOT a Pollutant

Here is my argument RussB. All the CO^2 this planet contains or has pontential of releasing, is already stored on this planet. It would be released in natural ways without the prescence of humans. A large volcano eruption or asteriod impact could just as well release much more CO^2 than we are capable of releasing in our lifetimes. It is a natural process. I agree that we are speeding up the amount of CO^2 we are dumping into the atmosphere, but natural processes could do the same thing. Our timeline of human prescence on this planet is so small, we do not really know all the natural cycles of this planet.

It is commonly agreed upon by scientists and Nasa that the next natural cycle of the earth is going to be another ice age. It could take 10K years to develop, and we might have destroyed our planet by that time, but that is next in line.

The global warming argument is just speculation. Its based on a very limited space of time. Like Gore’s hockey stick chart for the last 100 years. Look back million of years, a 100 year timeframe, doesnt stand in any scientific forum, nor should it.

More evidence is starting to be released that the earths temperature is more related to the sun and our planets travels through the galaxy, then the meddeling we are capable of.

Here are some links to scientific periodicals to support my claims.

http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/1997/11.06/BrighteningSuni.html

http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/2002/F/20021925.html

http://www.worldweatherpost.com/2009/01/27/solar-activity-linked-to-temperature-changes-on-earth/

http://www.populartechnology.net/2008/12/sun-controls-earths-climate.html

http://www.livescience.com/environment/070312_solarsys_warming.html

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/global-warming-relief-may-come-from-the-sun.html

Evidence to support earth is actually cooling:

http://www.winningreen.com/site/epage/59588_621.htm

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88520025

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=68277

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ice/chill.html

http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/942

http://acuf.org/issues/issue62/060624cul.asp

  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 09:13pm

    #5
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    Re: Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is NOT a Pollutant

[quote=gtazman]

I want to share some basic information just so everybody can get the facts straight and leave out the politics.

"CO2 for different people has different attractions. After all, what is it? – it’s not a pollutant, it’s a product of every living creature’s breathing, it’s the product of all plant respiration, it is essential for plant life and photosynthesis, it’s a product of all industrial burning, it’s a product of driving – I mean, if you ever wanted a leverage point to control everything from exhalation to driving, this would be a dream. So it has a kind of fundamental attractiveness to bureaucratic mentality." – Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Atmospheric Science, MIT

 

[/quote]

[quote=RussB]

 

Then why did you post this drivel?

[/quote] 

Russ

That first paragraph strikes me as anything but drivel. Probably none of us on this site are any more in favor of corporate industrial, environmental  exploitation than you are. It’s just that we fear living in an Orwellian dystopia, even more than we fear droughts, floods, and famine. 

I’d be curious to know how you feel about the threat of terrorism. Do you feel it justifies the Patriot Act, suspending Habeas Corpus, warrantless wiretapping and other spying on citizens? Because if this bothers you, maybe you can understand why some of us also fear the government’s response to global warming.

I have no doubt about the ravages of pollution, nor do I doubt that there are in fact angry, irrational people who want to do us harm. And I’m well aware, many scientists believe global warming could render the earth uninhabitable. But certainly, nuclear or biological weapons in the wrong hands could easily do the same thing. So what’s the solution? Should we just submit to the safety of a police state and a strong central authority run by power elites who know what’s best for us? 

I don’t think so. It seems to me, these are the same people who have gotten us into this mess. I don’t want to give them any more power than we have to.

Greg 

  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 09:21pm

    #6
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    Re: Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is NOT a Pollutant

SPM

I’m open to your argument, but in defense of RussB, if he has to check out all those links first, we’ll never hear from him again!

But thanks for putting them up. I appreciate your effort. There’s a lot to look into here.

Greg 

  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 09:36pm

    #7
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    Re: Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is NOT a Pollutant

Hehe. I went overboard with the evidence, but its out there if you look for it. I was trying to prove a point.

Its upsetting to me because the information is out there if people look for it.  Instead we seek the advice from an interpretation by a MSM talking head and their advertisers.

  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 09:42pm

    #8
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    Re: Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is NOT a Pollutant

I saw this thread come up, and read it through when there had only been 10 visits to it and just knew it was going to form into a giant steaming hot potato right from the start. This debate was dramatically covered in vast (and quite ugly) debate a few months ago, with sides placed and ego’s bruised unrecogniseable.

For anyone who cares to, this is a link to the two deffinative threads, but, I warn you to go in with a hard-hat and steel toe-capped boots as a precaution!!! :-

Global Climate Change: is it worth brushing off?

https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/global-climate-change-it-worth-brushing/5895

Climate Code Red -Telling The Truth To Power

https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/climate-code-red-telling-truth-power/11268

…for all it matters here, I’m in the human cause camp…Foot in mouth

Now I’m going to run for my life!!!

Best,

Paul

 

  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 10:04pm

    #9
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    Re: Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is NOT a Pollutant

SPM, I’m long past the point where I try to argue with those who refuse to understand simple science. I learned a long time ago that there’s no point.

Do you believe in the theory of gravity? If so, why? Take the answer and apply it to the equally well established theory of AGW.  

[quote=GregSchleich]

 

Russ

That first paragraph strikes me as anything but drivel. Probably none of us on this site are any more in favor of corporate industrial, environmental  exploitation than you are. It’s just that we fear living in an Orwellian dystopia, even more than we fear droughts, floods, and famine. 

I’d be curious to know how you feel about the threat of terrorism. Do you feel it justifies the Patriot Act, suspending Habeas Corpus, warrantless wiretapping and other spying on citizens? Because if this bothers you, maybe you can understand why some of us also fear the government’s response to global warming.

[/quote]

Nothing could be more of a dystopia than this cesspool and cinder that man’s greed, depravity, and vandalism are turning this world into.

It’s odd that you’d bring up terrorism in this context. Terrorism and the climate crisis of course go hand in hand as direct results of the West’s fossil fuel gluttony. The correct way to deal with both is to stop living in such a sodomitic way. Peak Oil is soon going to put an end to the vile party anyway.

It’s those who engage in this assault upon the climate, upon ecosystems, and upon the non-rich of the world, who are the ultimate terrorists, and without even an ideal to motivate them, but just gutter greed and hedonism. The world’s poor are already suffering from climate change and will soon be suffering horrendously from famine, drought, desertification, expanded disease ranges, and more frequent and intense warfare as a direct result of climate change.

Believe me, "the government’s response" to those who want to seal up mankind in a coffin and roll a stone over it is woefully short of what the response should be. Climate malefactors are criminals against humanity and the earth.

How would you deal with someone who was trying to set fire to your house and crops, and wanted to kill everyone you cared about? That’s certainly how anyone from the 3rd world should view any dusgusting fat American who refuses to live within his means.

My god, the earth is already trashed, and the economy has been destroyed, and the world is wracked with America’s wars…WHEN IS IT GOING TO BE ENOUGH FOR THESE PEOPLE ALREADY? WHEN WILL YOU HAVE DESTROYED ENOUGH?

"At long last, have you no sense of decency, sir?"

 

 

  • Fri, Apr 17, 2009 - 10:46pm

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    Re: Carbon Dioxide (CO2) is NOT a Pollutant

I am not in dissagreement that we are destroying the planet. Far from it. I think we treat this planet like its entitled to us, when it’s not. Its not ours, and we are supposed to take care of it.

My argument is against the CO^2. The CO^2 alone isn’t enough to create all the problems. IMO, Its all the chemicals we created in the last 50 years. And we really have no idea of what the long term effects are on us, or this planet. Look at all the magical diseases and illnesses that have been ‘found’ in the last 50 years. Anyone think it has any correlation to our chemical bubble? Most of this stuff didn’t exist 100 years ago.

When we run all our massive highways through the wilderness, how many animal species do we wipe out? Bats and Bees are dissapearing off the face of this earth faster than any other species and we can’t begin to explain why. We are on the road to turning our planet into a big ball of dirt.

I think the next 50 years will be the "make it or break it" for the human race. Our time is running out.

I saw figures somewhere, I can’t find it or I would reference it. At the human races current rate of reproduction. If you figured that each human filled the volume of a 1′ x 1′ x 3′ rectangle. At 2% per year population growth, in 5000 years, the amount of volume we humans would fill, would be a sphere in the range of a few hundred million miles in diameter. The earth is a sphere that is only 8000 miles in diameter. I do not know the estimate of when the earths population will exceed its carry capacity, but I would venture to say that it will be sooner than later.

 

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