Can We Trust the Government?

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  • Mon, Mar 02, 2009 - 01:13am

    #1

    Mike Pilat

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    Can We Trust the Government?

I’m creating this thread as an offshoot of the 9/11 / New World Order One.

As I previously stated in that thread, I think it is nearly impossible at this juncture to prove much of anything about 9/11. Even though we have evidence on either side of the arguments, it is difficult to draw solid conclusions and unfortunately I don’t think  this challenge will improve in the future. The truth about 9/11, however, would have very little impact on my view of the government, and that view is: I simply default to distrust unless I have a very good reason otherwise. There are a number of reasons that I feel the government has not acted in the People’s interests before. A couple of these reasons are:

1) FDR was warned by Australian intelligence 2 or 3 days before 12/7 that a Japanese carrier group was headed to Hawai’i. He did nothing in advance, but try to imagine what happened to his approval ratings after his December 8th speech.

2) Our own CIA has given LSD to individuals without their informed consent, has planned and executed political assassinations in secret, and has been implicated in numerous corrupt arms and drugs deals.

I just want to open this thread to give anyone an opportunity to put forth any of the instances where they feel less than certain that the government is acting in an upfront and moral manner. I think that gaining further insight into proven historical incidents, we can have a better idea of the nature of government today. Let’s do our best to focus on facts.

 

  • Mon, Mar 02, 2009 - 01:39am

    #2
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Can We Trust the Government?

Thanks Mike.

There is a fuzzy grey area between fact and conspiracy theory and the government wants to keep it that way so any facts look like conspiracy theories in the first place.

Crikey.  I have read hundreds of examples over years and years.  I can’t remember it all here and now.  But I am convinced the CIA especially is corrupt as hell.

I read Jonathan Eisen’s "Suppressed Inventions" a few years ago.  It is more along the lines of covering up medical cures (especially natural ones) esp for cancer and HIV but also some technologies.  It is a bit fuzzy in terms of possibly getting in to conspiracy theory territory too.  But when we look at the facts, and we have to put 2 and 2 together ourselves to get 4 – we are told we are promoting conspiracy. 

I am going to bring up a very very controversial topic here: child vaccinations.   People believe the authorities it is safe – yet the evidence against the effectiveness and safety is huge.  The links to autism (and its spectrum) are continually published.  Guess who has huge interest in the drug companies that promote these vaccines ?  Apparantly, the US government officials.  I’ve got all the books and info.  I don’t read them any more, it is too depressing.  If you don’t believe me, do your homework thoroughly before you vaccinate your kid – especially before the age of 2.  Do not put all your faith in the authorities when it comes to subjecting your child to this medical procedure.

As they say, it is very easy not to believe if you don’t want to believe with almost any topic involving cover ups.

  • Mon, Mar 02, 2009 - 01:43am

    #3
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Can We Trust the Government?

Mike,

I’ve got something for you.  This isn’t about something that’s already happened, it’s about something I’m afraid may happen:

Obama has taken to worshipping Lincoln at every opportunity.  At first, I thought this was just some PR ploy, or a manifestation of his ego.  However, his repeated references now make me wonder if there is something much larger at play. 

Regardless of anyone’s opinion of Lincoln’s results, these are just some of the methods he used to win the war:  he suspended habeas corpus (and used it to imprison critics without formal charges or trials); his usurped congress by declaring war unilaterally (only congress had the authority, he did so on his own); he used federal troops to fire upon and kill thousands of rioting citizens (and these were northeners he was trying to conscript into the army, mind you); he "passed" the Emancipation Proclamation unconstitutionally (no congressonal passage, just a unilateral declaration as commander in chief).

I do not want to make this a discussion about Lincoln, or what the civil war was really about (it wasn’t about slavery).  Those issues can be debated elsewhere.

My point in bringing this up is this:  Is Obama trying to get us to celebrate Lincoln now because he believes it will help him justify "emergency" actions he believes he may need to take later?  I can easilly picture him saying, "One of our greatest Presidents, Abraham Lincoln, when faced with extraordinary challenges, had to resort to extraordinary measures.  It is under similar circumstances that today I ordered 10,000 troops into the city of ________ to restore order."

Some may call me kooky or paranoid for thinking this way, but if so, it’s kept me alive and well so far.

Cheers,

kooky ole Pat

 

  • Mon, Mar 02, 2009 - 02:02am

    #4
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Can We Trust the Government?

[quote=Patrick Brown]

Mike,

I’ve got something for you.  This isn’t about something that’s already happened, it’s about something I’m afraid may happen:

Obama has taken to worshipping Lincoln at every opportunity.  At first, I thought this was just some PR ploy, or a manifestation of his ego.  However, his repeated references now make me wonder if there is something much larger at play. 

Regardless of anyone’s opinion of Lincoln’s results, these are just some of the methods he used to win the war:  he suspended habeas corpus (and used it to imprison critics without formal charges or trials); his usurped congress by declaring war unilaterally (only congress had the authority, he did so on his own); he used federal troops to fire upon and kill thousands of rioting citizens (and these were northeners he was trying to conscript into the army, mind you); he "passed" the Emancipation Proclamation unconstitutionally (no congressonal passage, just a unilateral declaration as commander in chief).

I do not want to make this a discussion about Lincoln, or what the civil war was really about (it wasn’t about slavery).  Those issues can be debated elsewhere.

My point in bringing this up is this:  Is Obama trying to get us to celebrate Lincoln now because he believes it will help him justify "emergency" actions he believes he may need to take later?  I can easilly picture him saying, "One of our greatest Presidents, Abraham Lincoln, when faced with extraordinary challenges, had to resort to extraordinary measures.  It is under similar circumstances that today I ordered 10,000 troops into the city of ________ to restore order."

Some may call me kooky or paranoid for thinking this way, but if so, it’s kept me alive and well so far.

Cheers,

kooky ole Pat

 

[/quote]

Hi Kooky – err, Pat.  Wink

Hadn’t heard this one: "he used federal troops to fire upon and kill thousands of rioting citizens…". I know it’s off-topic but would be interested if you could post a link to the info when you have a chance.

  • Mon, Mar 02, 2009 - 02:09am

    #5
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Can We Trust the Government?

[quote=Patrick Brown]

Some may call me kooky or paranoid for thinking this way, but if so, it’s kept me alive and well so far.

Cheers,

kooky ole Pat

 

[/quote]

Pat. You must never think you are paranoid or kooky for asking questions.  We must always question and reflect.  Not doing so has got us in to this mess in the first place.  You are not kooky, you are a thinker.  And one of the few thinkers left, as the majority of Americans believe what they are told by the authorities without question, like obedient little citizens.

 

  • Mon, Mar 02, 2009 - 02:11am

    #6
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Can We Trust the Government?

Does anybody know who owns the majority of the newspapers and media ? (and therefore has power and control over what we are told or not told)

  • Mon, Mar 02, 2009 - 02:16am

    #7
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    Re: Can We Trust the Government?

[quote=Sam Linder]

Hi Kooky – err, Pat.  Wink

Hadn’t heard this one: "he used federal troops to fire upon and kill
thousands of rioting citizens…". I know it’s off-topic but would be
interested if you could post a link to the info when you have a chance.[/quote]

My reference is from "The Creature From Jekyll Island".  The source reference from "The Creature" is, "The American Heritage Picture History of the Civil War". 

From page 381 of Jekyll:

[quote]

When conscription was initiated by Lincoln in 1863, people in the North were outraged.  In New York’s Madison Square, thousands of protesters marched in torch parades and attended anti-Lincoln rallies.  Historian James Horan desribes the mood: "When caricatures of the President were lifted above the speaker’s stand, hisses rose to fill the night with the noise of a million angry bees."  Federal troops eventually had to be called in to put down antidraft riots in Ohio and Illinois.  In New York City, when the first names of the draft were published in the papers on July 12, mobs stormed the draft offices and set fire to buildings.  The riots continued for four days and were suppressed only when the federal Army of the Potomac was ordered to fire into the crowds.  Over a thousand civilians were killed or wounded. [/quote]

My apologies in suggesting "thousands" were killed.  Apparently there were over a thousand killed or wounded.  

  • Mon, Mar 02, 2009 - 02:28am

    #8
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    Re: Can We Trust the Government?

Patrick, I have no doubt that’s why Obama keeps referring to Lincoln.  You’re not a kook.  The feds are going to turn on the people as this economic collapse continues and/or when a domestic "terror" attack happens. 

Amanda, according to those who have researched the banking interests behind the creation of the Fed (Rothschilds, Rockefeller, Morgan, etc), they own controlling interests in Reuters and AP which are the sources that feed all the news into the US networks and major newspapers.  In addition, they supposedly figured out that they’d only need to buy controlling interest in relatively few delivery channels (i.e. New York Times, Chicago Tribune, NBC, ABC, CBS, etc) in order to basically control US opinion.

Mike, there are hundreds of things I’ll avoid listing about not trusting government and would rather simply state they have completely overturned the constitutional framework of a federal republic where power sits at the state and individual level.  That alone is why I don’t trust national-level government at all.  

 

  • Mon, Mar 02, 2009 - 02:29am

    #9
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    Re: Can We Trust the Government?

[quote=Amanda V]Does anybody know who owns the majority of the newspapers and media ? (and therefore has power and control over what we are told or not told)
[/quote]

Amanda,

I don’t know who "owns the majority of the newspapers and media" but Rudolph Murdoch owns a huge chunk in the US!

  • Mon, Mar 02, 2009 - 02:51am

    #10
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Can We Trust the Government?

I think many (perhaps most) beaurocrats from the POTUS on down that hold Federal or State offices will tend to expand and abuse the power of the office that they hold if not held in check. It is necessary to speak up and call attention to any and all illegal and abusive policies. This brings me to my point about a free, independent and fair press. 

The first line of defense in any republic is for the people to actually know the truth and the implications of actions taken by these politicians including the POTUS. I don’t think that we have an unbiased and independent press anymore. It is my belief that the mainstream press and television news is so enamored with the new president that they will tend to give him a pass when they should be howling that he is doing the wrong thing

It is one thing for an organization like CIA to take covert actions that are clearly  illegal but it is far worse for the President to issue an illegal "proclomation" and have it go unchallenged.

 

Ken

 

 

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