Best Covid-19 drugs

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  • Tue, Mar 24, 2020 - 07:23am

    #1
    westcoastdog

    westcoastdog

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    Best Covid-19 drugs

No miracles.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615394/covid-19-coronavirus-best-drugs-in-treating-the-outbreak/

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2020 - 08:21am

    #2

    Jim H

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    And the anti-chloroquine brigade marches on

I watched a video made by an eye Dr. who indicated that the real concern for hydrochloroquine toxicity and eye damage comes after years of use.  As drugs go, this one is very safe if dosed correctly.

I linked to a video a day or two ago that was put up by a US Dr. and he had found documentation that SKorea had in fact adopted the use of hydroxychloroquine (or an alt HIV drug) as the STANDARD OF CARE for hospitalized patients in SK.  Chris had been wondering about how it is the SK stats look better… well, this is probably a big factor.  Why then does the US media complex, and deep state shills like Dr. Fauci, want us to feel so hopeless?

I am not saying hydroxychloroquine (likely + Azithromycin) is a miracle, but it sure seems a good option based on everything we know.  We have good ideas about how and why it works.  The profit-making industrial/pharmacy complex is so used to having control over the narrative, and the drug approval machinery, that they are fighting this tooth and nail.  Can you see it?  Please wait and die while we run a study that we can control the results of…

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2020 - 09:22am

    #3
    matfax

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    Best Covid-19 drugs

Indeed, Trump’s “miracle” won’t happen. People overadjust so easily. And by overreacting, they look for something they can do actively on their own. They want to prepare for the worst case, i.e., an infection. They start to read some news articles and deduct that it must be good for them to take this and that because a group of people survived in hospitals who were treated for their acute conditions. But the immune system doesn’t work that way. It’s not as simple as a bank account that’s supposed to increase only in one way. It might give us hope, true. That’s good for our morale but taking all kinds of drugs and vitamins won’t save people if they don’t differentiate and begin to critically analyze these hope givers. An acute condition requires completely different treatment decisions. All treatments have risks. We can’t see the virus and we can’t see what all these drugs do to our bodies without studies. That’s what people need to understand.

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2020 - 09:56am

    #4

    Jim H

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    Best Covid-19 drugs

OK, so let me see here.. on the one hand, Matfax is clearly stating the std. conservative, just don’t get sued, allopathic mantra that we gotta be careful, we gotta have really good studies before we do anything.. blah, blah, blah.  Meanwhile, we have good mechanistic reasons to believe hydroxychloroquine works AND the South Korean medical establishment has seen fit to incorporate it into their standard of care.  I’ve been solving problems relating to semiconductor chemical manufacturing for 35 years and I will find my own path through this, by triangulating across the best open minded advisors, including Dr. S from MedCram, who is himself an allopath, but at least an open minded one.

T0 each their own.  I really feel bad for folks that don’t have the technical wherewithall to make their own decisions here.  Some of them may in time turn out to be wrong, but I am not going to do nothing and depend on some institutional power to save me.

That is one reason I went off so hard on the AlanGreenland guy..  I really felt for the guy he brushed off with his, “9/11 happened” comment.  The person he brushed off clearly understood that he had been played in terms of the official 9/11 story.  Now he just couldn’t figure out what to believe anymore, knowing that elements of the deep state are still at work behind the scenes, especially as it relates to the narrative coming through the mass media.  I really felt for this guy.. and that’s why I let Greenland have it with both barrels.

From our friend and ER Doc. Sandpuppy, posted this morning,  here is what you face if you go into the hospital today;

The emergency physician closed facebook group reports that ALMOST NOBODY is being tested in many states at this time.   Test kits are in short supply and do not help with care.   It is now the consensus that the PCR test results do not impact hospital care, the decision to admit, what unit to admit to or the hospital treatment plan.PUI (persons under investigation for suspected COVID-19) who are hypoxic are admitted with a Do Not Resuscitate order as CPR is futile, and only infects the staff.   Treatment is almost nothing:  Tylenol, oxygen and a ventilator when needed.  Experimental antiviral studies have overflowed and are no longer being offered.

So, if you think using hydroxychloroquine and Z-paks early, and on your own, is scarier that that, then good luck.

 

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2020 - 10:12am

    #5

    Jim H

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    Best Covid-19 drugs – here is the South Korean protocol

Just to further counter the nanny state naysaying here, for those interested, here is the actual document that explains why South Korea has been able to much better manage Covid-19.

  http://www.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=7428

Korean physicians treating the patients infected with the new coronavirus (COVID-19) have established the treatment guidelines for the unpreceded coronavirus.

The key guidelines are as following; healthy patients with no existing disease do not need an administration of an antiviral drug, and, once physicians decide on the use of antiviral treatment, they should do so as quickly as possible.

The COVID-19 Central Clinical Task Force, composed of physicians and experts treating the confirmed patients across the nation, held the sixth video conference and agreed on these and other treatment principles for patients with COVID-19.

If patients are young, healthy, and have mild symptoms without underlying conditions, doctors can observe them without antiviral treatment, according to the guidelines.

If more than 10 days have passed since the onset of the illness and the symptoms are mild, physicians do not have to start an antiviral medication, the task force said.

However, if patients are old or have underlying conditions with serious symptoms, physicians should consider an antiviral treatment. If they decide to use the antiviral therapy, they should start the administration as soon as possible, the task force noted.

For the antiviral treatment, the doctors recommended lopinavir 400mg/ritonavir 100mg (Kaletra two tablets, twice a day) or chloroquine 500mg orally per day.

As chloroquine is not available in Korea, doctors could consider hydroxychloroquine 400mg orally per day, they said. There is no evidence that using lopinavir/ritonavir with chloroquine is more effective than monotherapies, they added.

Combining lopinavir/ritonavir with chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine could cause serious arrhythmias and drug interactions due to the increased QT interval, the task force said. Thus, the combination should be administered cautiously, in a very limited case, it emphasized.

The antiviral treatment for the new coronavirus will be most suitable for seven to 10 days. Still, the period could be shortened or extended depending on clinical progress, the doctors said.

The doctors did not recommend the use of ribavirin and interferon as the first-line treatment because of many side effects.

Physicians should consider using ribavirin and interferon only if lopinavir/ritonavir or chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine does not work, or the administration is impossible.

The Central Clinical Task Force concluded that the 28th confirmed case did not serve as evidence to extend the incubation period of COVID-19.

“The authorities have been monitoring the 28th confirmed patient as a person who had close contact with the third confirmed patient,” the task force said. “Many doctors agreed that the patient could have already contracted the virus before entering Korea or could have been in recovery after having no or a very mild symptom of which the patient was unaware.”

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So, what do we see?  First off, the use of anti-virals like chloroquine is recommended under certain circumstances BEFORE patients end up on a fucking respirator.  Do you get it?  Can you read the words above?  Can you see that this article is from more than five weeks ago?  Next time Chris marvels at the South Korea numbers… just remember this post.

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2020 - 10:54am

    #6

    Jim H

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    Best Covid-19 drugs – and furthermore…

The original MIT article linked to above says this;

Chloroquine has risks, because it can affect heart rhythm. No one should take it without a prescription.

But, there is also this gem from the SK protocol above, that suggests to me that information is being misrepresented and weaponized to try to scare us – I highlighted it but want to make it very, very clear;

Combining lopinavir/ritonavir with chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine could cause serious arrhythmias and drug interactions due to the increased QT interval, the task force said. Thus, the combination should be administered cautiously, in a very limited case, it emphasized.

So, the message is, don’t combine the other antivirals with hydroxychloroquine.

More on the safety profile of hydroxychloroquine;

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-020-0156-0

Clinical investigation found that high concentration of cytokines were detected in the plasma of critically ill patients infected with SARS-CoV-2, suggesting that cytokine storm was associated with disease severity12. Other than its direct antiviral activity, HCQ is a safe and successful anti-inflammatory agent that has been used extensively in autoimmune diseases and can significantly decrease the production of cytokines and, in particular, pro-inflammatory factors. Therefore, in COVID-19 patients, HCQ may also contribute to attenuating the inflammatory response. In conclusion, our results show that HCQ can efficiently inhibit SARS-CoV-2 infection in vitro. In combination with its anti-inflammatory function, we predict that the drug has a good potential to combat the disease. This possibility awaits confirmation by clinical trials. We need to point out, although HCQ is less toxic than CQ, prolonged and overdose usage can still cause poisoning. And the relatively low SI of HCQ requires careful designing and conducting of clinical trials to achieve efficient and safe control of the SARS-CoV-2 infection.

So what’s the message?  Does a short course of hydroxychloroquine, with careful dosing, sound scarier than ending up on a respirator with … nothing?  You decide.

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2020 - 11:08am

    #7

    Jim H

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    Best Covid-19 drugs – sorry about all the posts.. but…

Matfax said,

But the immune system doesn’t work that way. It’s not as simple as a bank account that’s supposed to increase only in one way.

So, on the one hand, the enterprise medical community can play with our immune systems all they want, and we just need to take the vaccines and the patented pharma products and shut up and not think.  We should not look for root causes, like my experience with wheat acting as the genesis of an autoimmune cascade that led to my arthritis (now cured and gone)… no, we should take a med that actually down modulates our immune systems so that we can keep on eating wheat.

Do you see it?  Matfax is saying that it’s scary to try to benefit our own immunity… but on the other hand, your doctor will do it all day long, if you don’t question it.   Such utter bullshit.

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2020 - 11:17am

    #8
    matfax

    matfax

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    Reply To: Best Covid-19 drugs

I’m a bit bored of the Chloroquine discussion because all has been said about it that can be said. All I’m telling you is that the pre-critical infection and the critical infection that involves a cytokine storm justify completely different treatments. So it should be differentiated as such. There is no “one size fits it all” treatment.

Btw, Chloroquine has more risks than just heart rhythm issues. I wrote about some of them here.

  • Tue, Mar 24, 2020 - 11:27am

    #9

    Jim H

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    Reply To: Best Covid-19 drugs

From our in-house ER Doc. Sandpuppy, in another thread;

I also agree that hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) is commonly used now for rheumatoid arthritis and lupus and regarded as quite safe in general for these conditions.

I am not understanding at all the outright resistance in the medical profession to its use based on “safety.”

The pilot study by Philippe Gautret offers only very weak evidence.  (Not randomized,  a “single arm study,” following only a lab parameter not any clinical outcome, and 3 people in the 20 person treatment group did very poorly and were dropped.  So the strength of evidence here seems very light, so far.)

So, does it work?  No gold standard studies yet – weak evidence based on the study mentioned.  Again, I extend my reasoning to the SK data to help color my view of efficacy.  We are all doing our best in a low-information environment.

Is it scary?  No.  This we know.    

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