Any ideas on a haven?

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  • Mon, Feb 23, 2009 - 11:30am

    #61
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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Having visited the US again recently I have to say I feel a lot of potential for a fascist state there. Lots of armed uniformed men from various policing formation. Everyone uptight, very preocupied with their importance and importance of their mission (for example mission of looking into people’s shoes). Most wearing dark uniforms with all kinds of decorative distinctions. Overall, Americans seem to have a love affair with uniform that is worrying – even mall cops have highly decorated uniforms and seem as serious as riot police. All this generates an atmosphere of fear.

Coming back to Europe my passport was checked at the Amsterdam airport by a guy who was not even wearing a uniform and laughed along when I joked to my wife about something. That is really different. Europe has its share of problems, namely socialism, oil & gas dependce on Russia for much of EU, Islam – but uptight love for uniforms is not one of them.

  • Mon, Feb 23, 2009 - 03:07pm

    #62
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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

I don’t pretend to know anything about water. However, I live about 300 yards from an irrigation ditch and about .2 mile from a lake. So in the event of a dire need for water, I would be able to get something.

And that brings me to a fundamental question about if water and electricity will be available. I foresee that water and electricity will be available. What would cause that to be a false assumption?

In looking at solar, I discovered that the interconnect agreement that I would have to sign with the city would prevent my solar panels from producing electricity in the event that the grid is down. That sounds counterproductive, but I do understand the standard reasoning. However, in the event of a total meltdown, I’m wondering how difficult that would be to override?

 

 

  • Mon, Feb 23, 2009 - 04:26pm

    #63
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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

[quote=markf57]

In looking at solar, I discovered that the interconnect agreement that I would have to sign with the city would prevent my solar panels from producing electricity in the event that the grid is down. That sounds counterproductive, but I do understand the standard reasoning. However, in the event of a total meltdown, I’m wondering how difficult that would be to override?

[/quote]

Nothing can prevent your solar panels from operating if you have the right Transfer Switch installed.

 

 

The bottom feed where it says alternator would be from your Solar Panel/Battery Source

  • Mon, Feb 23, 2009 - 04:56pm

    #64
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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Tom:

 

Thank you. As a visual learner, the picture REALLY helped. 

  • Mon, Feb 23, 2009 - 07:21pm

    #65
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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Nime, thanks for providing an outside perspective on US culture.  It’s hard for people in the system to see reality.  I completely agree with you.  But I can’t get over the number of americans who think I’m crazy when I question police activity, security policies, war, etc.  They’ve been trained well.  

I used to be all gung ho about security, was part of the military, cheered its growing strength, got all patriotic watching news stories of us killing other people, cheered our tough law enforcement, laughed whenever I saw video of cops abusing their power thinking "that guy must have deserved that."  Ruby Ridge and Waco were my first wakeup calls, and ever since then I’ve only seen more reason to question the entire notion of a "professional" class of warrior people who supposedly take care of the sheep people.  That’s the opposite of a culture of strong citizenship where people who know how to use arms take care of themselves and cooperate in community.

I agree that fascism is on the way, if not already here in some cases. 

  • Mon, Feb 23, 2009 - 08:01pm

    #66
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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

[quote=markf57]

I don’t pretend to know anything about water. However, I live about 300 yards from an irrigation ditch and about .2 mile from a lake. So in the event of a dire need for water, I would be able to get something.

[/quote]

Mark –

Make sure you have a couple of backpacker or hiker filter systems and a good supply of replacement filter elements.

Katadyn makes some good backpacker or day hike filters for around $80 – the last I checked the replacement cartridges were about $30.  Filter life was dependent on how bad the water source was, but you can filter about 200 gallons of typical stream water per cartridge.  Most of the backpacker filters make about a quart per minute.  Very useful hiking when you don’t need the extra weight of carried water and all you need is a stream, puddle or pond.

I use the Katadyn Backcountry series filter for through hiking and primitive camping.

Miox also has a very nice emergency preparedness filter but it is battery operated and has a salt cell – both need periodic replacement, but this one makes a lot of clean water quickly.  Runs around $130.00 – 140.00

MSR has a very nice product line too:  $90 – 100

Miniworks – a great ceramic filter with a cleanable element (I have this one)

Hyperflow – high flow filter system, about 3 quarts a minute. 

You can get these at any camping supply store – Bass Pro, Outdoor Outfitters, Camp Mor, etc.

  • Mon, Feb 23, 2009 - 08:17pm

    #67
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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

I bought the larger Katadyn unit that holds up to three filters and is rated for 13,000 gallons of water filtration (as DIAPO said, more or less depending on how dirty the water is). The device with one set of filters is filters $200 on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Katadyn-Drip-Ceradyn-Water-Filter/dp/B0007U010W/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1235420041&sr=8-14

I just noted they are now claiming 150,000 liters for the filters or, what, over 37,000 gallons! That must be for pretty clean water!

Still, at 10,000 gallons or more this unit is a bargain and with an exrtra set of filters would keep you set for water for a long time!

 

  • Mon, Feb 23, 2009 - 08:19pm

    #68
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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

The replacement elements for the filter I just mentioned are $60 each at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Katadyn-20743-Ceradyn-Replacement-Element/dp/B0007U0116/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1235420066&sr=8-17

Oh, so the 13,000 gallons is per filter, that explains the massive capacity!

  • Mon, Feb 23, 2009 - 08:37pm

    #69
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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

I use the Doulton gravity feed water filtration system here:

http://www.jmccanneyscience.com/SecWebOrderPg.htm

There’s the new 3.5 gallon system, the travel size and the 2 gallon size. I got the 2 gallon size. The filters are ceramic lined with silver. When the filters get cruddy, you take the thing apart and scrub them down and put them back in. The filters last for a very long time. The website says somewhere that these are used overseas by the Red Cross. He recommends getting an extra filter adapter for fluoride and arsenic. I also got a free small shortwave radio when I bought from this site.

We used to buy bottled water, but now can use the surface water because of this great filter system.

#61 markf, I don’t know that electricity will be available all of the time. Most people, if they don’t have electricity, they won’t have water. It’s good to plan for emergencies just in case, perhaps a Katrina-type disaster, or a snow storm, or failure of public utilities.

  • Mon, Feb 23, 2009 - 08:37pm

    #70
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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Right now I’ve got an MSR water filter pump with a backup cartridge, and I’ve got spare bleach and iodine tablets. If you really want the paranoid approach to clean water, here you go:

1) filter it with something good enough to take out viruses as well as bacteria

2) boil the water

3) add iodine / bleach tablets

4) use a UV light bacteria / virus killer (solar powered! see here: http://www.rei.com/product/761905) – not sure on how well this works…comments welcome

The nice thing is that it’s really not hard to stock the tablets and the water filter and UV light are reasonably priced as well. Boiling water seems like it would be one of the basic things we could probably count on doing in a crash as well. I figure that ought to take out pretty much anything…

Mike

 

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