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Any ideas on a haven?

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  • Mon, Feb 16, 2009 - 04:38am

    #1
    strabes

    strabes

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    Any ideas on a haven?

I personally see no reason to stay in the US. I don’t want to live under martial law, nor do I want to live in a revolution.  I’m all for a revolutionary change, but why fight it when I can sit it out on the beach drinking Corona?  No country has been as successful as the US at shutting down every rebellion it’s ever had, so it would be a hellish fight.  Plus, most people in the US are now passive subjects, not citizens, so I don’t see a revolution succeeding for a long long time since peer pressure will be to remain passive.

So, anybody have thoughts on the best haven?

I’ve thought of several but none look perfect since the whole world is stuck in this deflationary collapse that will reach horrific levels in a few years.  But many places look better than the US because they don’t have such a massively powerful standing army.  I’m also looking for tighter sense of community, which is pretty easy to find outside the US (for this I prefer latino cultures because they seem more inviting than other white cultures, though I’d be interested in your opinions on this).

– Mexico – corrupt, but a pathetic army and police force that would not be able to suppress the people.  Close to the US for visiting family/friends.

– Panama – decent banking center, no standing army, great surf, laid back.  Still fairly close to the US.

– Uruguay – Montevideo is great

– New Zealand – geographically isolated, most beautiful place in the world, great climate/land for sustainable life.

– Switzerland – ideal for physical safety, financial safety, but too expensive and a very insular community that generally keeps outsiders on the outside. 

 

  • Mon, Feb 16, 2009 - 08:10am

    #2
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Strabes,

In a collapsing society I think you would have as much to fear from the dislocated citizenry as the standing Army.  The best strategy I can imagine is a local community of like minded people. And the best way to develop that is by taking action to inform and educate. Not easy but no harder than moving to another location …… where in my estimation you would have to do the same thing anyway.

That said, Easter Island may be workable and when transport by sailing ship returns you would still be off the beaten path so to speak.

Coop

  • Mon, Feb 16, 2009 - 08:12am

    #3
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

How about we work on switching our debt money system to a wealth money system as Byron Dale proposes?

 Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86xFeK2h_bU

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdVTQXA7M68

I’m the guy making these videos, and I’m all ears to whatever solutions (that can work) can possiblely be dreamed up.  SO FAR this solution makes the most sense to me.  Money put into circulation free of debt.

 

  • Mon, Feb 16, 2009 - 08:47am

    #4
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

So many people with so many ideas on how a different monetary system ( most using some form of created money ) all seem to forget that it is humans in charge of the "presses" and so will inevitably run them…..

 

Secondly, no monetary system no matter how sound will not fix the "problem" of peak oil, or peak everything…..

  • Mon, Feb 16, 2009 - 09:44am

    #5
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Well how about we stop sitting around watching this monetary system fall apart and do something to start fixing it?

 The way I see it, a debt free monetary system sounds better than this system we have now.

 Do you have any ideas?

  • Mon, Feb 16, 2009 - 10:16am

    #6
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

[quote=ckessel]In a collapsing society I think you would have as much to fear from the dislocated citizenry as the standing Army. [/quote]

Au contraire dude!!!!  ANARCHY is easy to deal with…a well armed citizen can handle it…I’d love for the system to devolve to bands of criminals and general anarchy…that would be the basis for establishing a new, real, bottom-up, localized civilization.  On the other hand, government TYRANNY is not so easy when that tyranny is enforced through the most advanced military in the history of the world and the most fiercely armed state and city police forces.   

[quote=gyrogear]So many people with so many ideas on how a different monetary system ( most using some form of created money ) all seem to forget that it is humans in charge of the "presses" and so will inevitably run them…..

Secondly, no monetary system no matter how sound will not fix the "problem" of peak oil, or peak everything….. [/quote]

This is very wrong.  The monetary system is THE problem.  It’s the cause of our over-population, over-growth, insatious corporations, over use of resources, the numbing of life, the hollowing out of our societies, pernicious inflation, punishing deflation, etc etc etc.  And it’s wrong to say any monetary system wouldn’t work.  

Hi Thomas, I’m totally with you…I want a new system and I want to put the criminals behind our debt-based system (the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Warburgs, Loebs) in prison.  But gyro’s opinion here is why I don’t think it’s worth fighting…yet.  I think the initial phase of chaos is going to be really bad before the masses wake up from their slumber.  So bad that I might not survive in the government crackdown because I would fight it.  So I need to be out of country waiting until the population wakes the hell up and realizes that the Fed and the fractional reserve banking system needs to be overthrown in a revolution.  Then I’ll come back and join you all.

  • Mon, Feb 16, 2009 - 10:56am

    #7
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Wow – this is indeed sad talk 🙁

Whilst I am not an Amercian and I detest what greed I think the American system has brought upon the world (and the world have accepted – it takes two!) I find it sad to think that people want to desert their fellow citizens when they could in fact be the light that the country will need to pick itself back up again.

Whilst I do not know Amercian history very well, I do know that it became a great nation because people rolled up their sleeves and worked together – I can’t see why the same cannot be done again?

I come from one of those countries the OP posted but now live in another country – yes, I am taking out citizenship for my children in my country of birth but I will only retreat should conditions get so bad that anarchy results – I made a move to another country because it was better than where I was – I will attempt to stand up for the community I have now become a part of rather than run to where the grass is greener.

Yes, one must weigh up all the relevant factors and should food become a real issue or social breakdown etc then one must have plans but I don’t plan to desert where I am living just yet – not until I’ve attempted to become part of the solution at least.

We live in some of the most exciting times ever – yes, and the most scariest – but lets face it, when in your lifetime have you had the oppertunity to see a greedy selfish, self-centered system be brought to it’s knee’s and the population be given another chance to start something new?

12 months ago I was discussing with friends how greed and corruption was rampent and that the system could not go on forever and that one day, it would collapse just as Rome and other empires did but I never thought it would occur in my lifetime – I think it’s rather exciting in a strange way.

I came to another country with nothing – just a bag of clothes and established myself and it can be done again – having nothing really isn’t that bad actually – you find it helps you focus on what’s important and for me now, that’s my kids.

It’s not all over yet – we all have a lot of work to do so lets not desert our fellow man just yet.

🙂

  • Mon, Feb 16, 2009 - 11:35am

    #8
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

It’s more the British system than the American system that has ruined the world…America is now just a puppet of the masters in England.  And by British system I’m talking about the rule of the super-rich Rothschild banking clan which drives the worldwide greed. They control the US via the Federal Reserve.  So it took them 130 years to get control of the US again, but the royal family of England has owned it since 1913.

America actually started as a great country because patriots told the corrupt monarchy in England to screw off and they went to establish a new land because they had no hope of changing the tyrannical system in England.

Unfortunately Americans are in the same situation I’m afraid now.  1 – The majority of the population is sheep.  They have been disarmed, literally and psychologically, through generations of manipulative programming through mass media and government-run indoctrination called "schools."  2 – While they’ve been disarmed, the government has armed itself like no government has before and police forces have become increasingly militarized under the guise of fighting terrorism as they have been advised the US Army’s Delta Force.  3 – Our politicians are stooges of the Fed system.  Both parties are a joke.  There is no leadership.  Ron Paul is one exception…but look how the masses ignore him because the media portrays him as a doofus.  4 – Obama has plans for a domestic security force with a couple hundred thousand people.  What is that?  That was called the SS in Germany.  With that kind of neighborhood tattle-tale system, patriots in the US are in danger of being rounded up as "terrorists" and put in prison before a rebellion can happen. 5 – People on gun purchase lists will be targeted at some point in this country if the government gets a whiff of an uprising.  6 – The media controls a majority of the population’s mind still and will fight any good effort to fix the system.  7 – Our states and towns are a joke with no real leadership so they don’t stand up to the tyrannical national government.  This means there is no framework for fighting the system.

I could go on and on about how it is delusional to wait around in the hopes of fixing things when the government is going to crack down like crazy to keep people from doing anything to fix it.  

But like I said, the establishment will eventually collapse…it’s over…that’s a great thing! THAT will be the time "for all good men to come to the aid of their country."  Until that time, however, getting in the way of the establishment is just suicide.

  • Mon, Feb 16, 2009 - 11:43am

    #9
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

[quote=strabes]- Mexico – corrupt, but a pathetic army and police forcethat would not be able to suppress the people. Close to the US for
visiting family/friends.

– Panama – decent banking center, no standing army, great surf, laid back. Still fairly close to the US.

– Uruguay – Montevideo is great[/quote]

To
generalize a bit from this list, Third World countries with decent food
and energy balances are promising. Energy deficits are going to be a
serious problem for Mexico, which may lead to food deficits as well.
Farther south, though, both Brazil and Argentina are nearly
self-sufficient in energy and food. Uruguay, sandwiched between them,
produces plenty of food and also serves as their free-banking center.
So the whole region has potential.

I lean toward the Third World
for its lower cost of living, and the fact that governments which are
less rich can’t afford the massive apparati of privacy intrusion which
are being adopted in rich countries. Consequently, they feel freer,
despite lacking some of the theoretical constitutional protections we
have (or rather HAD).

As you point out, Latin societies are
very community-based, in a way that American society hasn’t been since
the 1950s. These countries also tend not to get involved in destructive
foreign wars that NATO countries do. There is no perfect haven, but I
would avoid densely-populated, energy-deficit rich countries, which
takes out the U.S., Japan and most of Europe from consideration.

  • Mon, Feb 16, 2009 - 01:13pm

    #10
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: Any ideas on a haven?

As I return to this site after a few days, I find great interest in this discussion. It says a lot about the American attitude in general….that we  think we have such an inherent right to just stroll into any country we feel like. About 20 years ago, my husband & I investigated both New Zealand & Sweden as countries to resettle in (also Canada in more recent years). In all cases, we would NOT be excepted as potential citizens unless we had a six-figure assets & were under a certain age, were married, etc. Probably restrictions are more stringent today. Now if you wanted to go to a country & stay illegally, that’s another thing, but who wants to live a life hiding out from authorities? So my take on all this is most countries DON’T WANT US! I agree with ckessel….participate in a local community. That is the best security you can create.

Treah

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