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Anonymity versus openness of identity in forums

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  • Sat, Dec 13, 2008 - 11:27pm

    #52

    krogoth

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 18 2008

    Posts: 512

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    Heroes in hiding I guess?

[quote=ErikTownsend]

Aside from his extraordinary generosity, Michael immediately impressed Chris by registering as a user on the site using his own real name and uploading a real photo of himself for his profile. While we respect everyone’s right to use screen names and avatars if they choose to do so, we feel that the topics discussed at PeakProsperity.com are serious issues confronting society, and we always appreciate when people participate using their true identity, rather than an anonymous screen name.

[/quote]

 

Erik, your kidding right?

I take extreme offense at you stating that you appreciate people using real pictures and real names rather than an anonymous screen name. If people in America (as I am an American in Taiwan) were to post under real names with real pictures they would probably end up in the real Guantanamo Bay with some of these posts. I have the security of being in a foreign country and I STILL won’t post my real name for the simple reason that my posts would be possibly considered a violation of the Patriot Act or other various new laws concerning even questioning government.

It sounds to me like while you post Chris respects the right for people to use Avatar’s and screen names, Chris greatly respects somewhat of a courageous stand of posting your picture and names or true identity as a preferred method. I might remind you also that Michael is also in a foreign country.

This could be the reason your visitor count, or voyeur count is so much extremely higher than your registered users online count, with more people reading and watching instead of posting, who knows for sure. But I do know that if everyone was to post real names and real pictures, this would be a pretty quiet forum. Also, I think Michael is part of a very small amount of users that actually use real names and pictures.

It is starting to seem to me that respect can be bought here, and the safety of users being free to post under a protected method is not as respected, and that’s a shame because it’s what makes the Internet a free way to voice your opinions without fear of repercussions.

 

 

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 12:12am

    #53

    Mike Pilat

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Posts: 155

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    Re: Heroes in Action: Michael Höhne

I think there is a balance somewhere in the middle. I can understand Erik’s thanks for someone to have the courage to identify themselves.

Likewise, krogoth, you raise some very good points. There is a reason why the internet is the last safe haven of free press and expression. I don’t think there’s a problem now, so long as there is no penalty for people to remain anonymous. Those that have the courage to choose to come forward should be acknowledged for that, but let’s just hope they don’t get any strange phone calls in the future.

Like you, I fear the police state that we are becoming. But at the same time, if we don’t exercise our rights to free speech, we will find them encroached upon even more. In this matter, I believe we should live and let live. Each user will have to decide what they are comfortable with.

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 12:32am

    #2

    Erik T.

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    Re: Heroes in hiding I guess?

Krogoth,

I respect your right to your opinion and your right to continue to participate here under your screen name identity if that’s your preference.

But honestly, I’m dumbfounded to understand why you would take offense to my statement that Chris and I appreciate people participating under their true identites. That’s simply a matter of fact. Chris and I share the personal opinion that important conversations about critical social issues tend to work better when people participate under their true identities. We’re as entitled to that opinion as you are to your preference to participate under a screen name. We have been completely respectful of your prerogative to participate behind a screen name if you choose to. Please return that courtesy by respecting our right to our opinion. We’ve been very careful not to impose our beliefs on anyone, because we recognize our personal opinions for what they are.

I consider myself to be an extremely proud and patriotic American citizen. Patriotism is something everyone has to consider and interpret in a way that feels right to them. I grew up in Concord, Massachusetts (site of the famous revolutionary war battle of Lexington and Concord), and had an enormously overweighted dose of American history from grade school on. We were taught in first grade that it is our patriotic duty to question government when it no longer represents the interest of the people. As a young child I went on school field trips to the site of the Boston Tea Party, and learned that the foundation of our nation’s existence was patriotism, defined as the people not allowing government oppression. I was taught that is my duty as a citizen to stand up and speak out when government goes afoul.

I am very proud of the work I am doing for this site as a volunteer, and I see it as my patriotic duty to help this cause. Speaking for myself personally, I would never do this under a screen name out of fears about what list my name may be put on, because in my view that’s letting them win. Speaking only for myself, I would feel like a coward participating behind a screen name here for the reasons you cite. But that’s my personal head trip, and I respect your right and everyone else’s to see things differently. But I really see no legitimate reason for you to take offense if we see things differently than you do.

Your comment about respect being bought here offends me, frankly. As you well know, respect here comes from contribution in many forms, and both Chris and I have been quick to compliment you both publicly and in back-channel e-mails for your outstanding contributions to the forums and blog comments. Michael did something extraordinary by making the contribution that he made, and he damned well deserves respect for it. From Chris, from me, and from you too.

Krogoth, did you consider how this sort of response might affect others who might be inclined to follow Michael’s lead? Do you think others who are able to make large financial contributions will be more likely to do so if they are shown to expect this sort of "appreciation"? When I introduced myself to this community, I intentionally mentioned that I had made a $5,000 cash contribution to Chris’ efforts myself. The reason I did that wasn’t to show off or pat myself on the back. It was a conscious decision to mention my own donation in hopes that I might inspire others to contribute if they were able to. Lead by example and all that. I was shocked and dismayed when I was barraged with responses accusing me of trying to "buy my way into controling this site"! Do you think people like Michael and myself are more likely or less likely to continue our generosity in the future if we are shown that this sort of critical, unappreciative reaction is what we can expect from this community?

I used to make a hell of a lot of money as a CEO, and I get calls all the time offering me consulting opportunities. Instead I’m spending my weekend working on PeakProsperity.com work, for free, as a volunteer, because I believe it’s my patriotic duty to help this cause. Krogoth, you’re absolutely entitled to your opinions, and you’re welcome to continue sharing them. But I want you to know that this sort of response makes me feel like saying "Screw this. These people just want everything for free, to let someone else donate the time and money to make this all happen, and to have the right to bitch about it anonymously behind some screen name that sounds like a science fiction character if they don’t get everything to their liking!"

Thanks for the encouragement, Krogoth. I feel so much better about spending my weekend volunteering my time for this site now.

Erik 

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 01:05am

    #54
    Headless

    Headless

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    Re: Heroes in Action: Michael Höhne

I think I’ve mentioned this here before: Over the summer I openly criticized Paulson, Bernanke, Bush, and pretty much every member of congress( I saw as corrupt) in various posts to the New York Times, The Economist, et al; all done using my real name and all the real information that is associated with my accounts at those publications.

Not two weeks later I received a tax assessment from the state of California for over $120k, and an IRS agent showed up on my doorstep with an assessment four times the state assessment. Both of these claims were unfounded. Though I had to hire a lawyer to get it settled. Strange coincidence?

While I feel a little more comfortable posting under an assumed name here, I in no way think that name is any kind of protection against this abusive, exploitative, and murderous entity that calls itself our government–as shouldn’t you.

This government will implode in the end; it’s going to be ugly. The greatest injustice of all is that those most responsible (Wall Street and certain members of the legislative and executive branches) will have transferred most of the stolen wealth (and themselves) to countries which do not have extradition treaties with the U.S.

I really believe everything I just typed (that may say more about me than them, but there it is).

When the noise (rebellion and riots, burning banks and effigies of politicians and CEO’s) is the only thing on the news every night, then I’ll post my real name, my picture, my address and phone number. Until then, I’m going to at least make "them" leave a trail of investigative steps that will have to be justified in court.

P.S. Actually I won’t need to and won’t be able to post my personal information, as surely the internet will cease to function–at least, reliably–during those times (the Republicans are now acutely aware of the power of the internet…).

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 02:10am

    #3

    krogoth

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

    Joined: Aug 18 2008

    Posts: 512

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    Re: Heroes in hiding I guess?

[quote=ErikTownsend]

But honestly, I’m dumbfounded to understand why you would take offenseto my statement that Chris and I appreciate people participating under their true identites. That’s simply a matter of fact. Chris and I share the personal opinion that important conversations about critical social issues tend to work better when people participate under their true identities. We’re as entitled to that opinion as you are to your preference to participate under a screen name. We have been completely respectful of your prerogative to participate behind a screen name if you choose to. Please return that courtesy by respecting our right to our opinion. We’ve been very careful not to impose our beliefs on anyone, because we recognize our personal opinions for what they are.

[/quote]

I am sorry you are dumbfounded, but I consider contributions to this website under real names or screen names as equal. That’s my opinion. I expected nothing less but a long and drawn out response from you, so here are my replies. 

[quote=ErikTownsend]

I consider myself to be an extremely proud and patriotic American citizen. Patriotism is something everyone has to consider and interpret in a way that feels right to them. I grew up in Concord, Massachusetts (site of the famous revolutionary war battle of Lexington and Concord), and had an enormously overweighted dose of American history from grade school on. We were taught in first grade that it is our patriotic duty to question government when it no longer represents the interest of the people. As a young child I went on school field trips to the site of the Boston Tea Party, and learned that the foundation of our nation’s existence was patriotism, defined as the people not allowing government oppression. I was taught that is my duty as a citizen to stand up and speak out when government goes afoul.

I am very proud of the work I am doing for this site as a volunteer, and I see it as my patriotic duty to help this cause. Speaking for myself personally,I would never do this under a screen name out of fears about what list my name may be put on, because in my view that’s letting them win. Speaking only for myself, I would feel like a coward participating behind a screen name here for the reasons you cite. But that’s my personal head trip, and I respect your right and everyone else’s to see things differently. But I really see no legitimate reason for you to take offense if we see things differently than you do.

[/quote]

I don’t think you need to give me a resume of you patriotism, but if you want to drop the patriotism bomb, we can do that as well. I graduated High School at 17 and immediately served my country in the US Navy for 4 years, then I attend college. My father was a Naval Officer as well as an attorney, my grandfather was a Judge and my family history is not only patriotism at it’s finest, but can be traced back quite a long time, with parts of my family actually being massacred by American Indians on the trek to the West for better opportunities. Speaking for myself personally, I don’t feel like a coward, I feel like I am protecting myself and my family from an unconstitutional acting government. As for the other posters here, I don’t think that they would like your personal opinion of the majority of them being cowards. I feel that some people on here, like myself, could be in serious danger under certain new and constitution violating acts that are now in place, based on the fact we attack and go after parts or whole bodies of government. While it’s easy to say I am a patriot just as you do, Chris and you are simply conveyors of the problem, and not pointing fingers, attacking any politicians, going after the root individuals responsible, or taking a stand in any way. This is fine and acceptable being that you and Chris are in a much more exposed position, and also much more vulnerable to these new and unconstitutional non-laws, but for anyone who does attack anyone in today’s government structure, I would strongly suggest using a cowardly screen name.

[quote=ErikTownsend]

Your comment about respect being bought here offends me, frankly. As you well know, respect here comes from contribution in many forms, and both Chris and I have been quick to compliment you both publicly and in back-channel e-mails for your outstanding contributions to the forums and blog comments. Michael did something extraordinary by making the contribution that he made, and he damned well deserves respect for it. From Chris, from me, and from you too.

[/quote]

I appreciate the kudos from both of you, in back-channels and on the forums, but that is not the point of my original post, or my intent of the original post. I don’t care about gratitude, but thanks for it anyway. As for respect, who and how I respect people in my life is not something I am shocked you have the odacity or think you have any right to dictate to me.

[quote=ErikTownsend]

Krogoth, did you consider how this sort of response might affect others who might be inclined to follow Michael’s lead? Do you think others who are able to make large financial contributions will be more likely to do so if they are shown to expect this sort of "appreciation"? When I introduced myself to this community, I intentionally mentioned that I had made a $5,000 cash contribution to Chris’ efforts myself. The reason I did that wasn’t to show off or pat myself on the back. It was a conscious decision to mention my own donation in hopes that I might inspire others to contribute if they were able to. Lead by example and all that. I was shocked and dismayed when I was barraged with responses accusing me of trying to "buy my way into controlling this site"! Do you think people like Michael and myself are more likely or less likely to continue our generosity in the future if we are shown that this sort of critical, unappreciative reaction is what we can expect from this community?

[/quote]

Actually, I was not worried about your fund raising efforts because I think not only are we adults and not children here, I also believe that we can make decisions on our own, but that once again I think this is way off the message of my original post. Now you are implying that I have no concern for this website or it’s continued survival, taking my message way off it’s intention and misdirecting it. I have done many posts coming up with ideas, suggestions and other things to make this website not only popular, but educational and profitable. To attack my loyalty is a foundation-less, lame and pointless argument and really makes you look bad. We all know what you have contributed financially to this website, you remind us of it all the time. Leading by example is not taking someones comment about protection, safety and concern, and the definition of why a lot of us are anonymous here and not turning it into multiple responses that have no basis or merit, when the evidence is clearly not only on this website but also based on my continuous support of this website. To lump in a statement like people accused you of to "buy your way into controlling this site"  is way off topic once again and has absolutely nothing to do with my original post’s intention. This sounds like a personal issue with you, and has nothing to do with what I originally posted.

[quote=ErikTownsend]

I used to make a hell of a lot of money as a CEO, and I get calls all the time offering me consulting opportunities. Instead I’m spending my weekend working on PeakProsperity.com work, for free, as a volunteer, because I believe it’s my patriotic duty to help this cause. Krogoth, you’re absolutely entitled to your opinions, and you’re welcome to continue sharing them. But I want you to know that this sort of response makes me feel like saying "Screw this. These people just want everything for free, to let someone else donate the time and money to make this all happen, and to have the right to bitch about it anonymously behind some screen name that sounds like a science fiction character if they don’t get everything to their liking!"

Thanks for the encouragement, Krogoth. I feel so much better about spending my weekend volunteering my time for this site now.

Erik 

[/quote]

OK once again making it your personal business and somehow tying it into my comment. What money we make, used to make or will make is way of topic, as is most of this statement and most of this response. I never asked for anything free, and all I have done is contribute as much as time allows.

I will add to my original post-

I feel it’s my way of sharing information with people here, and not so much a patriotic duty, because I think it’s a world issue as the big picture.

Of course I am American, so I will think of America first in most of my posts, but patriotic duty I think is better suited for you and not me. I did my patriotic duty for 4 years in the Navy, so I think I have contributed to America in a way I see as fitting and just. It’s continuing for me, because I inform and educate as many as I can about America, it’s government, and it’s people. Being that I travel extensively, and am practically a quasi ambassador having to explain constantly American policies to other cultures. I explain the wonderful things about being American and America, and I explain that things that are not wonderful about America.

Definition of Patriot- a person who loves his or her country and passionately supports its interests 

Well this describes most of the people on PeakProsperity.com. I don’t think if the people on here didn’t give a damn, they would not post so much or try to help so many others, and giving a damn is being a patriot. My original post was to state that just because people use screen names does not mean that what they contribute or what they have to say is has any less or more importance than anyone else, regardless of donation, posts, number of posts or whatever. That’s called free speech, and being a patriot you understand this. One post on here from one person can be educational to many, and that carries just as much importance as contributing capital, but that’s my opinion.

What I am concerned with, and will always concerned with, is safety and freedom of speech, which lately in America and around the world has been under attack. You see Erik, people die or are tortured for contributing opinions, educating or informing others with information the government does not like. I was involved somewhat with intelligence in the service and in my private career, and I dare to imagine how far and how badly it can and possibly will get in America. I live next to the country that has a long record of crushing any opinion outside of what they think is acceptable or allowed, it’s called China. You use words like patriot and I use words like patriot act. I don’t use the word patriot as much anymore after it was tied to these horrible, illegal and unconstitutional acts of the Bush administration, but that is my opinion. Because my original post was intended not only to protect the identity of the majority of contributors to the forums is important, this seems to have turned completly into everything but that.     

[quote=ErikTownsend]

Screw this. These people just want everything for free, to let someone else donate the time and money to make this all happen, and to have the right to bitch about it anonymously behind some screen name that sounds like a science fiction character if they don’t get everything to their liking!
[/quote]

I don’t know if this is directed at me or directed at all of us, but I will assume it is directed at me and all I can say is this is not only petty, it’s immature. if it is directed at me, then it’s a violation of Chris M’s rules

Please avoid any of the following:

  • Personal attacks.
  • It’s not really worth my effort to make this thread explode by adding much more, but let’s just leave it at what makes America great. Our different opinions, backgrounds and cultures and our collective desire of PROTECTION of our personal liberties, way of life and freedom.  

 

 

 

 

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 02:15am

    #4

    krogoth

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Tax Assesment for writing

Exactly my point. Erik, please read the above post from NonZeroone. This is not a conspiracy-nut story, he is stating it actually happened.

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 02:38am

    #55

    Mike Pilat

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    Re: Heroes in Action: Michael Höhne

I think everyone has raised some very good points. Like I previously stated, I think we can agree that the choice to expose your name or picture (or not) is a personal one and does not interfere with other people. Likewise, if we wish to acknowledge a contributor for any reason, we are entitled to our opinions in that respect. I don’t think an attack on an acknowledgement is justified because they acknowledgement does no harm to anyone else.

kwwilson raises some good points about anonymity. Personally, from my perspective, I don’t see a need or reason to expose my identity any more than I have to.

That said, I imagine the Trillions of unaccounted for dollars that flow into our intelligence budgets probably have other means of determining identities that are not so simple as looking for a screen name. Thus, if they really wanted to get any one of us, they probably could, no matter what. I will take a break from my stream of Jefferson quotes and remind everyone of a an appropriate Franklin one instead:

"We must all hang together or we most assuredly will all hang separately." — Benjamin Franklin

I don’t think we will win a secrecy battle with the government and I don’t think we will have our opinions counted by directly attacking the government either. I think the best solution is to spread public awareness and get public support. I think the most patriotic action would be to do whatever it takes to get a groundswell of public support for this cause.

What Michael did greatly supported awareness. That his name and image are visible is insignificant either way to me. It is his actions that impress me the most.

Thank you,

Mike

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 03:33am

    #56

    jrf29

    Status Silver Member (Offline)

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    Re: Heroes in Action: Michael Höhne

Anonymity is never a virtue. And the truth is that it takes a greater degree of courage and integrity to reveal one’s true name and to then stand tall for one’s own beliefs.

Krogoth, if you want to protect yourself, then do so. Take shelter in the security of your anonymity and disparage the greater courage those who do use their names and photographs. Self preservation is a legitimate reason for action. But some people find that the preservation of their country is more important than saving their own hides from dangers real or imagined.

Imagine a time, 240 years ago, when royal officers and spies roamed freely throughout our land, and the person who spoke of treason was in far more danger than anybody is today. Imagine the great speeches given in our town halls and churches. Imagine what the fate of our nation would have been if nobody arose to speak because they were too timid to even show their faces.

Compared to that time, there is little real danger in speeking freely today.  If people are so cowardly as to shrink from standing tall for what they believe in at even the slightest hint of danger, than there would come a time in the future when dissenters might be in real danger.

By all means, protect yourself from the dangers you perceive. But I take great comfort in the fact that there are still people who will put their names on the line for the preservation not of themselves, but of their entire country. That is patriotism.

I am sure you have noticed that I post anonymously. In my chosen career path, I am obligated to avoid bias, or the appearance of bias, in any of my public actions, and in so doing I retain my ability to do greater deeds for the public good. But my motivation is a desire to choose my forum, and thereby strike a greater blow for the public good—not to save my own neck and thereby withdraw from the struggle for liberty which it is our duty as citizens to engage in.

I will take my ribbing for posting anonymously. But I will never deny the virtue of those who present themselved openly. They are our role models.

 

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility and safety of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." — Samuel Adams

 

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me. 

 –Pastor Martin Niemöller

 

 

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 03:39am

    #57

    Chris Martenson

    Status Platinum Member (Online)

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    Re: Heroes in Action: Michael Höhne

I was hoping this thread would be about honoring Michael and be a place for others to consider the ways in which they contribute to this overall cause and to tell us about what they’ve done.

I operate under my real name and with my real picture because I want
this site to be more than what I’ve found through several long years in
the internet. Anonymous discussions are good to a point, and that’s
about it.

I think we need to go beyond that point. I believe we both need and deserve the very strongest and best on-line community we can forge.

I
have a local community and I have an online community and both are
important to me. A few of my very best friends were met on the web and
I think it’s critical that we leverage the web to be our extended
family and community while we build critical mass in our towns and
cities.

So would I prefer everybody use their real name and picture? Yes.

But
this is a personal choice so I don’t require it (and haven’t even
pushed it before…I was waiting to introduce the concept under
different circumstances, but here we are). There can be many reasons for people needing to preserve anonymity from family, peers and colleagues.

Anonymity and the net

Since we are on the topic of "safe, anonymous posting", anybody who wants anonymity from the government should immediately stop using the internet. 

Everything is recorded and logged. Everything; and you should know that.

Honestly, it is quite naive to think that using a screen name vs. a real name affords some measure of protection against prying government eyes. It does not. If this is a real concern of anyone’s my strongest advice is that you really should not be posting anything anywhere, or even using the internet at all because much can be gleaned from the sites you visit, how long you dwell there, your scroll rate, links clicked, etc.

The level of sophistication affording the government complete access to
all levels of the internet was achieved and surpassed a long, long time ago.

I guess if anybody is afraid of their government associating what they
post with their names, then they really shouldn’t be posting anything
that would or could make them nervous.

So if we can agree that anonymity does not really exist, then I wonder what the actual objection is?

For example, I can find a significant number of the posters here on
Facebook where real names, pictures, travel plans, likes, dislikes,
employment and you name it all there for the world to see. Again, if
you think that somehow your information is private to your "friends"
you need to spend more time investigating how computers work.

So I wonder why it’s "OK" to use real names and picture in one place but not another?   Perhaps the real issue is not actually anonymity, then, but the perception of anonymity at some sites and not others?

In closing

What we are facing in terms of the challenges of the three "E"s requires nothing less than breaking the status quo. If we cannot even break out of a simple habit like using anonymous screen names to post on a chat board, then perhaps the big stuff is out of reach. I don’t know, but this is a sometime late-night concern of mine.

I look forward to meeting each of you in person some day, and I can guarantee you this will happen in many cases. We can wait until that day to exchange words using our real names and identities or we can start here.

I’ll whoop all this up into a proper post for the forum at some point, as I planned.

 

  • Sun, Dec 14, 2008 - 03:45am

    #6

    krogoth

    Status Platinum Member (Offline)

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    Here we go

[quote=jrf29]

Anonymity is never a virtue. And the truth is that it takes a greater degree of courage and integrity to reveal one’s true name and to then stand tall for one’s own beliefs.

Krogoth, if you want to protect yourself, then do so. Take shelter in the security of your anonymity and disparage the greater courage those who do use their names and photographs. Self preservation is a legitimate reason for action. But some people find that the preservation of their country is more important than saving their own hides from dangers real or imagined.

Anonymity as a concept is despicable. I dislike anonymity in all of its forms. In government it leads to masked operatives and brutal behavior, and in the public the desire for anonymity leads to a cowed populace, unwilling to stand their ground with pride and dignity and say, "I, John Q. Public, will stand up and speak out for my rights."

[/quote]

How convenient for you! I should do the same, just spout a bunch of nonsense about who should stand up for all our liberties, and then turn around with such a lame excuse for not backing it. I guess your protecting your hide as well. Are you in political service at all, because if not the way you talk you should be.

Those who speak on here and don’t wish to attack or criticize our government, then post your picture, you name whatever you want. Those of you who as JRF29 said want to protect your hides from real or imagined whatever, then I suggest not attacking anyone, putting light on any subject or doing anything buy let the government run your life. As for me, speaking without identifying yourself is just about the only way to go these days. Maybe before the Bush administration came in I would feel OK providing this to the public, but now in this government, no way.

As for me, when we have a constitutional abiding government, you can call me a patriot and I will celebrate by posting my picture as well as my full name, but don’t hold your breath.

Until then, if it ever happens, I will use a the supremely lame excuse for not posting my name and picture, just like JRF29.

 

And here it is-

I am sure you have noticed that I post anonymously. In my chosen career path, I am obligated to avoid bias, or the appearance of bias, in any of my public actions, and in so doing I retain my ability to do greater deeds for the public good. But my motivation is a desire to choose my forum, and thereby strike a greater blow for the public good—not to save my own neck and thereby withdraw from the struggle for liberty which it is our duty as citizens to engage in.

When I read this post, I laughed so hard I almost fell out of the chair!

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