Americanism

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  • Thu, Oct 14, 2010 - 05:02pm

    #31
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    Re: Americanism

 

WOW, citizeal you are truly mentally impaired and damaged.  AO you can throw yourself into that group.  You come down on me and my views because they are not a traditional american view point or some other contrived narcissistic view?  You complain that since ” I herd” an idea from someone else, that I am just repeating what that person said, WOW! who does not do that?  Any thought/idea you personally have come up with on this topic was taught to you or you learned it from some constitutional website or book, you have no original thought or idea nor do I.  Designing the flaws out is the point!! not passing a law on a piece of paper by some ass politician.  When two cars collide at an intersection, is it the passenger and the speed laws that caused that crash?, or was it fundamentally the poor design of that roadway itself that allowed that crash to happen?  If you designed that roadway section so no intersection was needed then cars could not collide.  Hope you understand the basic concept between passing laws and designing the flaws out.  If not, then you sir are a flaw that should have never been born.

As for your lame socialism comment, you fail to be above these little labels.  If you have 50 people who all make $200,000 50 people who make $100,000, and 50 more people who make $50,000 a year, is it not true that each group of the 50 people are in their own little social group of financial equality?  Even while achieving that financial equality in assumed free-market capitalism, are they not equal in their own little click?  I’ll add that 50% of each group of the 50 did not earn the money, it was lottery winnings, no real work involved.  Hope you understand, if not then senility is in full throttle.

 

  • Thu, Oct 14, 2010 - 05:20pm

    #32
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    Re: Americanism

wvcaveman,

Wonderful post.

 

For me, to match priviledge with responsibility is individual liberty.

Many laws(including bank and tax laws) allow priviledge without responsibility. 

Land values are what creates wealth. Too many are landless…Mother Earth is our birthright, priviledge, and responsibility.

Yet, laws constantly keep the monopoly going.

Here is how I look at it:

The board game Monopoly is a good model to observe. At the start of the game, everyone gets an equal amount of money from the banker, then by chance players arrive on land to buy. A player chooses to buy land and property based on the return or rent the player can charge other players who land it. Once you have played the game Monopoly a few times, it is easy to determine that if you own only two, high value pieces of landyou will probably win the game because of the high rent you can charge. 

Now, lets say 3 people have been playing the game for about an hour and all the land and properties are owned, would you want to join the game?

NO…it would be pointless, because without the ability to buy land and property, a new player would just serve the wealth/priviledge of the players who own the land and property. One of the things I think we can agree on…Our current model limits personal responsibility by consolidating priviledge.

IMO…Land should not become a private priviledge or private property, because of the monopoly outcome.

A solution would be to not tax labor and sales and instead put a tax on land. Essentially, individuals would pay land rent.

All would have access to land. Land rent does not create utpoia, still allows personal business and home ownership, and would allow priviledge to meet responsibility.

 

For a passionate, intellectual debate with compelling arguments from each side on the topic of land as property see:

Property in land: a passage-at-arms between Duke of Argyll and Henry George 

Short quote from part II. The “Reduction to Inquiry.” p52:

The first universal perception of mankind is declared by the American Indian Chief, Black Hawk: “The Great Spirit has told me that land is not to be made property like other property. The earth is our mother!” ~Henry George Property in land: a passage-at-arms between Duke of Argyll and Henry George 

 

 

FWIW, according to Maxwell:

-Law defines a human being as a monster.

-Anyone who hires an attorney is a ward of the state(an infant or imbecile) 

 

-littleone

  • Thu, Oct 14, 2010 - 07:26pm

    #33
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    Re: Americanism

[quote=littleone]

ward of the state(an infant or imbecile) 

[/quote]

I meant to write ward of the court.Embarassed

-littleone

  • Fri, Oct 15, 2010 - 02:43am

    #34
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    Re: Americanism

[quote=JK121]

WOW, citizeal you are truly mentally impaired and damaged.  AO you can throw yourself into that group.  

[/quote]

JK121,

I don’t appreciate this comment.  But obviously if you can’t communicate with the maturity level of an adult and you project your personal status onto others, it reflects on the validity (or should I say invalidity) of your views.  And you purport to have the solutions for the flaws of humanity?  I’m sure the world you would design would be a very peaceful and harmonious place with this type of response … because you’d be the only one in it.

The world is what you make of it.  I have a fantastic wife, wonderful kids, a successful career, excellent health, a great home, financial independence, and am able to contribute generously to various charitable causes and do pro bono work.  Changing the world starts with yourself and your immediate family and spreads outward from there, not the reverse.

   

  • Fri, Oct 15, 2010 - 02:49am

    #35
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    Re: Americanism

wvcaveman,

Superb post.  This is one I’ll save.

  • Fri, Oct 15, 2010 - 12:58pm

    #36
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    Re: Americanism

 

Ao, you obviously did not understand anything I’ve posted.  

  • Fri, Oct 15, 2010 - 08:24pm

    #37
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    Re: Americanism

 

To help clarify things, I’ll go into a little bit more detail to help.  I know we can all agree that government needs adjustment(and the fed) along with taxes, spending, laws, and so on.  Advocates of a RBE, are more about running society without the need for the dominant artificial structures that run things now.  When the founders advocated their ideas, I could imagine opposition too, does it mean they were wrong?  Americanism will always be in transition as will the rest of the world, traditions will come and go as will the ways of solving human problems, which are mainly technical.  Holding onto the the way things “were” is more of an emotional task that needs to be overcome(which has been accomplished) when new technological advances are invented to help arrive at a solution to a problem.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4P1xUcGXls&feature=player_embedded

No standing army can defeat and idea who’s time has come

  • Sat, Oct 16, 2010 - 01:11am

    #38
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    Re: Americanism

[quote=JK121]

 

To help clarify things, I’ll go into a little bit more detail to help.  I know we can all agree that government needs adjustment(and the fed) along with taxes, spending, laws, and so on.  Advocates of a RBE, are more about running society without the need for the dominant artificial structures that run things now.  When the founders advocated their ideas, I could imagine opposition too, does it mean they were wrong?  Americanism will always be in transition as will the rest of the world, traditions will come and go as will the ways of solving human problems, which are mainly technical.  Holding onto the the way things “were” is more of an emotional task that needs to be overcome(which has been accomplished) when new technological advances are invented to help arrive at a solution to a problem.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4P1xUcGXls&feature=player_embedded

No standing army can defeat and idea who’s time has come

[/quote]

JK121,

Citizen al was wrong to call these idea “hair brained”.  I think he actually meant “hare brained” (sorry, couldn’t resist).  I know you think these ideas are so advanced and so sophisticated that most of mere mortals are incapable of comprehending their complexities but that’s simply not the case.  Rather the ideas espoused simply deny how the human brain is wired and organized, deny neuropsycholoendocrinological mechanisms, deny human DNA, etc.  We’ve already been down these paths before on these forums so I don’t plan on spending time rehashing the same arguments.  The belief that technology will solve all our problems is, in my opinion, a myth. 

But for the sake of argument, let’s go along with the idea of the Utopian world you are proposing.  Let’s say technology has given us unlimited energy (through zero point energy extraction, matter/anti-matter reaction, or whatever), unlimited transportation capability (through electromagnetic alteration of gravity, space/time, or whatever), unlimited labor replacement sources (through self replicating sensate androids who are the keepers of our homes and planet providing us with clean air, clean water, abundant food, shelter, transportation, energy, health care, counselling, and maybe even sex and synthetic love), etc., and there is no need for money and no scarcity of any need or want.

Do you really think this situation would remove all human conflict?

This question leads to the next question.  What, in your opinion, is the purpose of human existence?

 

  • Sat, Oct 16, 2010 - 01:44am

    #39
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    Re: Americanism

 

Ao, the point of technology is to free man from doing tasks, that has always been the trends, as for what the future will hold who knows, all we can do is look at the trends, and agree that YES, technology is here to give us the closest thing to utopia, even though there is no such thing as utopia, there are no final frontiers, no perfect computer, no perfect car, it’s all emergent.  The more we free humanity the more we will understand our purpose.  

  • Sat, Oct 16, 2010 - 07:43am

    #40
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    Re: Americanism

Dear JK121

In a previous post I said, “It is rapidly becoming clear that it is impossible to carry on an intelligent discussion with you because you do not discuss things in good faith.”

Your response was to tell me in regard to myself that “at 67 signs of senility are truly taking over”.  In this response you also asked me to tell you exactly how a law stops a crime and my response to this query was to point out that laws do not prevent crime, law enforcement agencies do and without laws they would be powerless.  Then, in turn, I asked you to explain how in his superior social system he would rid humanity of the crime of murder.  This question is important and it was asked to get you to finally explain how your new system of social engineering would be applied to a very practical question in the real world.

Your response to my sincere inquiry was that “WOW, citizenal you are truly mentally impaired and damaged.”  You then go on to give us more hypothetical examples of why your theories and posturings are so superior to everything else and having said this you finish up by saying, “Hope you understand, if not then senility is in full throttle.”   And you never did answer my simple question of how your system of social engineering would rid humanity of the crime of murder.

It is now clear that you have no intention of discussing anything in good faith and I also question if you are capable of understanding what is meant by “good faith”.  Unfortunately, your postings are an embarrassment to yourself and this is clearly evident to everyone who is so unfortunate to read them.  My best advice to you is that in the future you have your mother edit your posts to prevent you from continuing to make a complete fool of yourself.

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