Agenda 21

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  • Sun, Oct 25, 2009 - 02:40pm

    #11
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    Re: Agenda 21

C1, totally understand where you’re coming from and I agree to a certain extent.  Maybe we as “humans” don’t have the power to change what’s to come.  Really don’t KNOW, but I THINK you have something.  Although it’s very hard to grasp that nothing that we as humans do can change the forces that are coming against us.  Helplessness is not in my nature.

NP, I agree with the video clip and how it could have been manipulated.  But I think it’s good enough to get peoples attention….as I would imagine was the purpose of the making.  

I’ve heard and read about Agenda 21 many times before, but hadn’t heard it put into easy terms as was used in this clip.  I was hoping to get it onto the mainstream for a while just to open some eyes.  Didn’t last long but WHAT THE HELL.  A slap on the hand now and again is worth trying to get reality into everyones crosshairs.  

Now, I need to get my arms around THIS aspect of the agenda.  As I think has been stated, I feel we probably don’t have a lot of say now or ever in the outcome of this but as a person that has a family, loves the idea of our Republic and thinks Humanity is worth saving in freedom, I can’t just sit around and watch this take place.  

Keep up the fight and thanks for the input!

LR

  • Sun, Oct 25, 2009 - 11:13pm

    #12
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    Re: Agenda 21

[quote=LogansRun]

C1, totally understand where you’re coming from and I agree to a certain extent.  Maybe we as “humans” don’t have the power to change what’s to come.  Really don’t KNOW, but I THINK you have something.  Although it’s very hard to grasp that nothing that we as humans do can change the forces that are coming against us.  Helplessness is not in my nature.

[/quote]

Hi, Logan’s Run;

If I came across as if I am saying that we should just passively allow this process, then I communicated badly.  I am saying that, without a dramatic spiritual shift in our view of things, and without assistance that is more powerful than the forces arrayed against us, anything we do would be futile, in the long run. 

I do think that the ultimate outcome is preordained.  But no one can say when the ultimate outcome will be achieved.  As events are currently accelerating, for the first time in my life, I think that we may see the culmination in my lifetime.  But that certainly does not preclude resisting evil, for the mere sake of doing so.  From my viewpoint, such an undertaking is worthwhile, regardless of whether a favorable outcome can be foreseen.  I believe that the very commitment to do so changes us in ways that will have a bearing on matters far more profound than our immediate personal stories.

I believe that our current circumstances are a physical manifestation of a spiritual malady.  If you want to cure the disease, you have to get to the source.  That can’t be done with guns, or protests, or legislation, or intentional communities, or websites.  It must begin within . . . once the heart is healed, then the action can begin, with the benefit of advocates, and the most powerful Advocate, shielding, strengthening, and guiding us.  But, then it will be His victory, and we will only be his servants.  The word servant may offend some people, but I would ask:  would you rather be a slave to Evil, or a servant to Good?

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 07:46am

    #13
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    Re: Agenda 21

Our own demise is being sold to us as solutions . . . . Vaccines for mysterious diseases, police powers to counteract shadowy enemies with foreign-looking faces, and soon — physical tagging to protect us from identity theft and kidnapping.  In our fear of dwindling resources, we are sold the Transition Town movement to herd us into designated areas.  Sustainability and permaculture are the new religions that forbid us to have any impact on soil, plants, and animals, because these are more valued than humans.

Cloudfire, am I understanding that you think transition towns are part of this agenda? We would love to move away from a small house in the suburbs where it is extremely hard to do much of the preparing all of you are doing, but without friends/family living in some small community somewhere, we have no idea where to start. How does one go about even choosing an area? Dh is self-employed, so there is no chance of a job move. However he is extremely handy and I have faith we could make some living somewhere. But again, the question is, how do you determine where?

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 12:14pm

    #14
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    Re: Agenda 21

[quote=Saffron]

Our own demise is being sold to us as solutions . . . . Vaccines for mysterious diseases, police powers to counteract shadowy enemies with foreign-looking faces, and soon — physical tagging to protect us from identity theft and kidnapping.  In our fear of dwindling resources, we are sold the Transition Town movement to herd us into designated areas.  Sustainability and permaculture are the new religions that forbid us to have any impact on soil, plants, and animals, because these are more valued than humans.

Cloudfire, am I understanding that you think transition towns are part of this agenda? We would love to move away from a small house in the suburbs where it is extremely hard to do much of the preparing all of you are doing, but without friends/family living in some small community somewhere, we have no idea where to start. How does one go about even choosing an area? Dh is self-employed, so there is no chance of a job move. However he is extremely handy and I have faith we could make some living somewhere. But again, the question is, how do you determine where?

[/quote]

Hi, Saffron;

That is a very personal decision.  I would say that the first consideration is that you choose an area with a climate that agrees with you, and with ecology that you understand.  For instance, unless I was joining friends who had a deep understanding of an arid climate, I would not attempt to make a transition (no pun intended) to that sort of climate, this late in the game.  I would, instead, if I were operating on my own, choose an area with the sort of soils and climate to which I am accustomed.  Secondly, I would look carefully at the maps that are shown in the film in the root post on this thread.  Those maps indicate areas where no human inhabitation would be allowed, if the folks that developed it prevail . . . which they have, so far . . . Beyond that, it is a matter of choice, convenience, and opportunity. 

I do think that whenever the opportunity presents itself, sharing resources with friends is a strengthening strategy.  But I would use extreme caution in joining “ready made” communities with ill defined personal control over your assets and your destiny.  Control of organizations of this sort is easily hijacked to suit the needs of the few.  Choose your allies very carefully . . . If it sounds utopian, run for the hills.  Every evil system, from communism to nazism, has been sold as a utopian society.  Man-made utopias are lies . . . . period.  Ask Jim Jones’ followers how their pursuit of utopia turned out . . . You’ll have to work hard to find them . . . very few survived the climactic suicide/homicide that ended that experiment.

In terms of the physical choices that you can make, I believe that this is the best guidance I can give you.  As always, in keeping with my signature quote, I encourage you to seek strength and protection that extends far beyond the physical realm.  We will all need it, in the coming years.

 

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 01:02pm

    #15
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    Re: Agenda 21

C1,

I most definitely didn’t take it badly.  You know me, I’m not one that gets injured easily nor do I take your words out of line.  Plus, I’m pretty well aware of your thoughts/feelings on the issue.  We’re probably mostly on the same page so……no worries.  

I would like to hear what you feel the final outcome will be though.  Does it come from the scriptures?  If so, what does it say and what will the road be like?  

Saffron, I’ll second what C1 said.  Look at the maps in the Agenda 21 program.  Or do your research on the subject.  Tptb haven’t lost a battle yet so I don’t suppose it will happen anytime soon either.  Now whether they will get THAT far in our lifetimes is another matter.  When the disarmament of the country starts to take place, get worried…very worried.  As to where to go, I’m in the same boat.  It’s going to be very hard to settle into an area without knowing who you can trust.  I think if you pose this question to the main board you may get some good answers.  There are quite a few people on the board that have created their own communities and systems that may be helpful to your cause.  PM Dr. Martensen, he’s most likely done this type of research already as he plans to buy soon.  Good luck!

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 02:13pm

    #16
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    Re: Agenda 21

[quote=LogansRun]

I would like to hear what you feel the final outcome will be though.  Does it come from the scriptures?  If so, what does it say and what will the road be like?  

[/quote]

Sorry, Logan’s Run . . . That terrain is outside of the scope of the approved subjects for “polite” conversation on this site.  In any case, if you are oriented in the way that you have led me to believe, you should already broadly know the answers to those questions.  If you want to discuss fine points, you can do so on my blog.

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 02:22pm

    #17
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    Re: Agenda 21

C1,

I’ll do that!  I figured that was the issue and “yes” we’re probably on the same page on this one.  I’ll get on your blog;-)

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 05:32pm

    #18
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    Re: Agenda 21

LogansRun wrote:

My question is:  Why are people so afraid of reality?

Is it fear or denial?  For example, a spouse or a parent may have a hard time realizing that their child or significant other is hooked on drugs or alcohol.  They are unwitting enablers through the denial, just as we become enablers to tyranny.

Cloudfire wrote:

I don’t think that you’re going to like my answer, but here goes: The source of these malevolent actions is more powerful than us . . . . more powerful than the entire human race combined. Without appealing to a power that is greater than the source of these evils, we have no hope. Period.

But, there are ways to open peoples’ eyes. The opening and blocking of understanding happens on a spiritual level, not an intellectual level. That is why I limit my attempts to reach people through the intellect. The keys are not in the intellect . . . the intellect is subject to the spirit . . . Unless the spirit is wise, the intellect will remain ignorant.

I don’t know that I understand exactly what you are saying but there is something unsettling in your message.  First, I think that we have the power to stop the tyranny as soon as enough of us say “no” in a united and firm voice.  The PTB are powerful (they control the money, government and media) but we outnumber them in magnitudes.  The only power they hold is the power that we grant them through ignorance, laziness and indifference.  

When the curtain is finally dropped, I think we will be amazed that so few could subjugate so many.  They have a difficult task in front ot them – their greatest weapons are stealth, deception and their lack of humanity.  They are increasingly vulnerable as the end game forces them to come out in the open, their boots on our throats is becoming impossible not to feel and see.

My concern is that others may read your words and conclude that we can’t win without some sort of divine intervention.  We already have the intellect to sort these things out, the question becomes do we have the courage to intervene?

I don’t mean to discount the spiritual element.  As cynical as I am, I still recognize that there is something fundamentally uplifting and liberating about finding the truth in a world of deceit – it feels spiritual for sure.  I respect and admire those who search for a higher plane of awareness but I still think it is up to us to set things right again.

LogansRun wrote:

I would like to hear what you feel the final outcome will be though. Does it come from the scriptures? If so, what does it say and what will the road be like? 

Hi LogansRun,

A wise friend explained to me the other day what we are seeing and what is coming in a very eloquent way that I’d like to share:

Americans are in that Shadow Land of rational thought at the moment.

Right now, they see what they believe.

When they believe what they see, we got us a whole new Revolution.

I think we need to remind ourselves that we are gaining traction and that this is anything but a done deal.

Larry

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 07:43pm

    #19
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    Re: Agenda 21

[quote=DrKrbyLuv]

Cloudfire wrote:

I don’t think that you’re going to like my answer, but here goes: The source of these malevolent actions is more powerful than us . . . . more powerful than the entire human race combined. Without appealing to a power that is greater than the source of these evils, we have no hope. Period.

But, there are ways to open peoples’ eyes. The opening and blocking of understanding happens on a spiritual level, not an intellectual level. That is why I limit my attempts to reach people through the intellect. The keys are not in the intellect . . . the intellect is subject to the spirit . . . Unless the spirit is wise, the intellect will remain ignorant.

I don’t know that I understand exactly what you are saying but there is something unsettling in your message.  [/quote]

Given what I know about your position regarding powers greater than the malevolent one we now face, it does not surprise me in the least that you would find this unsettling.  From my vantage point, it is simultaneously rousing and comforting.  In other words, it both allays my fears, and moves me to action, not despair and passivity.  It all depends on your relationship to those powers.

  • Mon, Oct 26, 2009 - 11:29pm

    #20
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    Re: Agenda 21

DrKrby,

You are dead on the money.  The real power rests in the people.

The real question is whether enough people will wake up and stand in unison against what is becoming a massive power grab.

I may be wrong.  I hope I am wrong but I fear too many have been lulled to apathy already by the promise of free “bread and circus.”

CF, your advice about avoiding those who promise utopia is also spot on (IMO).

History is full of the failed examples (and untold human suffering) of collectivist societies.

It is my opinion that the error that lies at the root of all of these failures is a fundamentally wrong understanding of the nature of mankind (humanity) or the “heart of man”.

Any system that does not provide for the individual to take risks and enjoy the reward or failure of his/her individual effort will bread down in the end.  Just ask the colonist at Plymouth how well collectivism worked out for them.

In addition, human society (no matter how good the form of government) that is devoid of morality will likewise fail.  It is my opinion that America is starting reap what it has been sowing.  We are suffering because moral corruption has found its way into every segment of the culture, government, business, and society.  No law, no amount of regulation, and no form of government can void or negate the corruption when it has found its way into every segment of society.

I can only repeat what CF has already said, but it bears repeating.  Avoid anyone or any community that promises utopia.  It is a lie.  What they promise is power for a few at the expensive of the many at best and starvation and death at worst.

[/rant]

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