7 US troops KIA in Afghanistan

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  • Tue, Jul 07, 2009 - 01:46am

    #1

    George Karpouzis

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    7 US troops KIA in Afghanistan

Seriously, what are we still doing there?? Bama is increasing troop levels to 68,000 by the end of 2009. I have spoken to many marines and soldiers that have done time out there and for the most part they say that the US annihiltates the Taliban in firefights. The taliban dont have any heavy weapons, no air support, basically just RPG’s and rustly old AK-47’s. The US and NATO have howitzers, gernade launchers, drones, F16’s, AC 130 gunships, tanks, etc etc. The majority of the KIA’s are from Improvised Explosive Devices (IED). So at most we lose 200 guys a year, which his horrible for the families but when compared with the wars of history is a walk in the park. For example, in the Battle of Crete the Germans lost 6000 men in 72 hours.

The main point here is that NO SOLDIERS should die as a result of Operation Enduring Freedom. More information on casualties can be found at http://www.icasualties.org/oef

To this day i keep wondering to myself what are we doing over there. Bin Laden is never mentioned by the Communist in Chief. We are for the most part battling 4-5 militias collectively known as the Taliban. Is there some kind of economic strategic reason for our presence there? Is the west trying to secure a base on the south side of China? Is there natural gas pipelines that we want to secure? I do know that Hamid Karzai was a high ranking employee of Unical. Other than that, i dont have much info. Any thoughts and/or theories on why we are there losing men, killing hordes of people, and burning cash that we dont have like madmen??

  • Tue, Jul 07, 2009 - 03:22am

    #2
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: 7 US troops KIA in Afghanistan

It was to save the heroin business, plus try and stabilize the area so the oil pipeline could be completed. Only the very stupidest of the stupid believe it was to fight a war on terror. A group of terror dudes lead by CIA operative Osama Bin Laden was NO threat to the western world.

  • Tue, Jul 07, 2009 - 04:19am

    #3
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: 7 US troops KIA in Afghanistan

when did this web site become a haven for every crackpot?  Ironic, considering what a rational guy Martenson seems to be.

I’m no fan of Obama, but it looks to me like he’s trying to finish the mission that the last COC blundered us into.  Whatever the reasons were in the begining (after 9/11), that mission has been completely botched by the nitwits that got us into it and who ran a strategically idiotic war.  I wish Obama would cut our losses and get the hell out, but I guess he knows that if he does that he will be branded forever in the rhetoric of the right wingers as having "lost" Afghanistan.  Like it or not, he’s decided he’s stick with this war and at least is trying to get us out with a gram or two of dignity.

It doesn’t help me that my son is one of those troops over there.

  • Tue, Jul 07, 2009 - 04:31am

    #4
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: 7 US troops KIA in Afghanistan

Please don’t think I’m a crackpot for what I’m about to say…..but Ass-crack-i-stan has PROVEN to be a meat grinding un"win-able" god forsaken hell hole time and time again.

 

I truly feel Obama plans to bleed our Military dry of its best and brightest. "Taking" Afganistan is about as pointless as the campaign in the Hurtgen Forest in WWII.

A modern army cannot conquer that land or its people or its problems. It will be blamed on Bush whatever the outcome. God help our Military.

  • Tue, Jul 07, 2009 - 05:15am

    #5
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: 7 US troops KIA in Afghanistan

Ummmm – can any of you tell me what this has to do with the three E’s and how we can personally learn to prepare for an uncertain future?

  • Tue, Jul 07, 2009 - 06:24am

    #6
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: 7 US troops KIA in Afghanistan

Samlinder

 

Afghanistan or Operation Enduring Freedom has plenty to do with Economy and Energy. Regarding economy this war, if expanded and continued for a prolonged period of time can drain us even more. Energy wise, who knows what types of minerals or natural gas pipelines TPTB are trying to usurp. The war has plenty to do with our present situation. Also consider the possibility of another terrorist attack. What will the ramifications be then?

 

To the previous poster

 

I hope your soon will come back ok. Odds are he will. Thankfully the taliban is poorly equipped and can only cause casualties on the US side with booby traps (IED’s). More importantly, i hope that he has the mental strength to come back ok. Many combat vets suffer from PTSD with upwards of 20% exhibiting symptoms.

 

I know this website primarily concerns issues to with Energy, Environment, and Economy so i will avoid making a political debate here. The reality is that the war is costly in terms of finances and lives.  

 

  • Tue, Jul 07, 2009 - 07:32am

    #7
    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: 7 US troops KIA in Afghanistan

Bear:

Thanks for wishes for my son.  He’s home on leave for 4 more days, then back over to finish the deployment.  That ends in March, we won’t see him till then.

While I realized that some sort of military action was probably necessary in Afghanistan, I was against the ham-fisted way we went into that country to begin with. (And don’t get me started on Iraq.)  My son was 12 years old when it started, and if Bush hadn’t had his motives for attacking Iraq, we could have finished what needed to be done over there a long time ago.  I don’t know what the problem it is that conservatives have with accountability when it comes to Bush and that son of a bitch Cheny.  It’s just a little bit hard for me to take when I see people laying it on Obama.  I didn’t vote for the man in the primaries, but I did in the general, because the Repubs deserved to lose for getting us into these messes.  At least Obama was one of the few politicians to take a stand against the Iraq mess.  Still, he wasn’t my first choice by a long shot.

Yes, I agree this has a LOT to do with the downward slide this country is going through with regard to all of the Es.

  • Tue, Jul 07, 2009 - 02:22pm

    #8
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: 7 US troops KIA in Afghanistan

[quote=green_achers]

when did this web site become a haven for every crackpot?  Ironic, considering what a rational guy Martenson seems to be.

I’m no fan of Obama, but it looks to me like he’s trying to finish the mission that the last COC blundered us into.  Whatever the reasons were in the begining (after 9/11), that mission has been completely botched by the nitwits that got us into it and who ran a strategically idiotic war.  I wish Obama would cut our losses and get the hell out, but I guess he knows that if he does that he will be branded forever in the rhetoric of the right wingers as having "lost" Afghanistan.  Like it or not, he’s decided he’s stick with this war and at least is trying to get us out with a gram or two of dignity.

It doesn’t help me that my son is one of those troops over there.

[/quote]

 

US military interventions lead to bigger drug flows into the USA. After the US intervention in Afghanistan in 1979, the Afghani-produced proportion of heroin consumed in the USA went from zero in 1979 to 52% in 1984. 

Later, the Taliban government cut opium production from 3,656 tons in 2000 (90% of Europe’s heroin supply) to 74 tons in 2001 (US State Department figures), wiping out 70% of the world’s illicit opium production. US forces, in alliance with a drug trafficking network, the Northern Alliance, defeated Al Qa’ida, another drug trafficking network. The US funded the Northern Alliance warlord and terrorist Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, making him the world’s biggest heroin trafficker. 

Under US occupation, Afghan opium production has risen from 3,700 tons in 2002, to 3,400 tons in 2003, to 4,200 tons last year. The Financial Times wrote, "The U.S. and UN have ignored repeated calls by the international antidrugs community to address the increasing menace of Afghanistan’s opium cultivation." It is now the world’s leading producer of illicit drugs, producing 90% of the heroin sold in Britain and Europe. President Karzai of Afghanistan has made Rashid Dostum, a warlord, drug runner and terrorist, his military chief of staff. 

  • Tue, Jul 07, 2009 - 03:51pm

    #9
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: 7 US troops KIA in Afghanistan

[quote=green_achers]

when did this web site become a haven for every crackpot?  Ironic, considering what a rational guy Martenson seems to be.

I’m no fan of Obama, but it looks to me like he’s trying to finish the mission that the last COC blundered us into.  Whatever the reasons were in the begining (after 9/11), that mission has been completely botched by the nitwits that got us into it and who ran a strategically idiotic war.  I wish Obama would cut our losses and get the hell out, but I guess he knows that if he does that he will be branded forever in the rhetoric of the right wingers as having "lost" Afghanistan.  Like it or not, he’s decided he’s stick with this war and at least is trying to get us out with a gram or two of dignity.

It doesn’t help me that my son is one of those troops over there.

[/quote]

Hi green_achers,

I hope your son returns home safely again.

As you have a personal connection with Afghanistan AND have found your way to CM’s website for obviously what you feel are valid reasons may I recommend two books that may give you some (IMO) essential insight to the U.S. military deployment in Eurasia?

The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy And Its Geostrategic Imperatives‘ (1997) – by Zbigniew Brzezinski

If you scroll down a little you will find some interesting quotes from the book.

Here’s several quotes…

"Henceforth, the United States may have to determine how to cope with regional coalitions that seek to push America out of Eurasia, thereby threatening America’s status as a global power." (p.55)

"America is now the only global superpower, and Eurasia is the globe’s central arena. Hence, what happens to the distribution of power on the Eurasian continent will be of decisive importance to America’s global primacy and to America’s historical legacy." (p.194)

"For Pakistan, the primary interest is to gain Geostrategic depth through political influence in Afghanistan – and to deny to Iran the exercise of such influence in Afghanistan and Tajikistan – and to benefit eventually from any pipeline construction linking Central Asia with the Arabian Sea." (p.139)

I’ll let you decide the relevance (or otherwise) of these last two quotes noting that this book was published in 1997.

"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (p. 211)

"The attitude of the American public toward the external projection of American power has been much more ambivalent. The public supported America’s engagement in World War II largely because of the shock effect of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. (pp 24-5)

Before you assume they are the utterings of a ‘crackpot’ be aware of who the author is…

Amongst other things, Zbigniew Brzezinski served as United States National Security Advisor to President Jimmy Carter from 1977 to 1981.

More about the author… en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbigniew_Brzezinski

The other publication is…

Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil’ –  by Mike Ruppert

Regards

  • Tue, Jul 07, 2009 - 06:26pm

    #10
    Peak Prosperity Admin

    Peak Prosperity Admin

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    Re: 7 US troops KIA in Afghanistan

I hope I don’t give anyone the impression that I support the current land wars in Asia.  That would be extremely ironic, as I was one of those people in the streets protesting the buildup to Iraq in SF and Sacramento.  Add that to the irony of my son’s choice of careers.  I was also against invading Afghanistan, although, as I stated, I could go along with some need to go after the Taliban after it became clear they were harboring Bin Laden.  At any rate, the Taliban fit the description of Very Bad People, and running them out of Afghanistan could have arguably been considered a good thing, IF it had been done.

I just take exception to some of the characterizations in a couple of the first posts in ths thread.  Some of the conspiracy stuff just detracts from real lesson to be learned from the debacles, which is more along the lines of "if you elect the worst leaders possible, this sort of thing is what you are going to get."  Also, there is a long history in this country of the use of words like "Commmunist" by the right-wing to marginalize the voices of dissent and progressive change.  That marginalization has always served the people in power.  The real people in power, that is, the moneyed interests.

I don’t know if Obama is going to end up doing the right thing, so far the signs are not positive IMO.  But I do believe he has the intellectual ability to understand the issues and at some point was coming from a place of genuine concern for the needs of real people.  I also recognize that even if he did want to make real change, he would be swimming against an almost irresistable current in the real power bases.  So, though I am not optimistic, I believe that there is a chance he could be moved off of the position of BAU, but it will take a tremendous amount of pressure from citizens to make it happen.  It will certainly not happen if the right is able to turn it into a partisan struggle, and rhetoric like that in the first posts just adds to that danger.  (Not that anyone who matters gives a rats hindquarters what a bunch of people arguing on the internet care…)

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