5 Phases Of Covid19/Coronavirus & Their Treatment using Vitamin C and Chaga

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  • Sat, Mar 21, 2020 - 03:06pm

    #1
    ProSuja

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    5 Phases Of Covid19/Coronavirus & Their Treatment using Vitamin C and Chaga

This is based on Clif High’s work. Much thanks to him and the person who put this into video form, Othala.

 

5 Phases of Covid19/Coronavirus & their Treatment

  • Sat, Mar 21, 2020 - 04:01pm

    #2
    matfax

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    Reply To: 5 Phases Of Covid19/Coronavirus & Their Treatment using Vitamin C and Chaga

Does that guy recommend 1oz of Whiskey for patients who we think are dying? Sorry, but that’s a case for hospitalization, not for self-experiments.

This article isn’t fact-based since it lacks references. It’s just wild guessing from some knowledge of other viruses, not even SARS. His suggestions might as well amplify the deadly cytokine storms. No way to tell without references. If you check for herbal medicine, there must be a mechanism that suggests how it helps.

There is weak evidence that high doses of Vitamine C can reduce pro-inflammatory responses during cytokine storms. But if you get hospitalized, there are many choices to inhibit cytokine storms. It depends on various aspects of the patient’s condition.

There is fair evidence that daily Vitamine C supplementation has no significant impact on the progress and severity of flu virus infections in the average person.

There is strong evidence that Vitamine C increases the risk of kidney stones in men.

There is strong evidence that Vitamine D reduces inflammation. I spare the references here since it is almost self-evident. There aren’t any contradicting results like with Vitamine C. And you can’t overdose on Vitamine D3 if you don’t have impaired kidney function.

Now to the Chaga mushroom extract. There is a study that suggests adverse reactions.

“Oral administration of the extract highly increased serum levels of IL-6.”

IL-6 is the cytokine that causes the hyperinflammation in the lungs in COVID-19 according to a study of 150 patients in Wuhan. So if you already have a virus that causes a cytokine storm that is mediated by IL-6, using Chaga mushroom is like trying to extinguish a fire with alcohol. Not every immune booster is a wonder pill. Neither are immune suppressants such as corticosteroids. The real solution is modulating the immune system so that it doesn’t cause inflammation but remains adaptive by building T cells against the new virus.

  • Mon, Mar 23, 2020 - 09:24am

    #3

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    5 Phases Of Covid19/Coronavirus & Their Treatment using Vitamin C and Chaga

Your spin seems to Anti supplementation!

This from the article you referenced as “adverse reactions”.

“Our data suggests the potential of the Chaga mushroom extract as an effective BRM and its possible use as an immune enhancer in mmunocompromised and immunosuppressed individuals.“

That’s not an OMG don’t use it message

Ever wonder why the indigenous peoples have used Chaga for 1,000’s years?  Perhaps they know something you do not.

  • Mon, Mar 23, 2020 - 12:12pm

    #4
    matfax

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    5 Phases Of Covid19/Coronavirus & Their Treatment using Vitamin C and Chaga

I repeat what I just wrote in the last update’s comment section.

The article that is referenced here recommends Chaga for reinfections (i.e., cytokine storms) and Whiskey + Elderberry for emergency cases. I strongly advise against it. The explanation is trivial enough. Further rising IL-6 levels when you already have symptoms enhance the symptoms and thereby the risk for ARDS.

There might be a benefit in increasing IL-6 during the early phase in a limited manner. But I have no data of how much of the mushroom you need to consume and at what level it can be considered an overtake during viral lung infections. I only know that normal IL-6 levels are the ultimate goal for a healthy immune response. Neither low nor high IL-6 levels are desirable. So people with inflammatory diseases are advised to rather lower their IL-6 levels (e.g., by taking Vitamine D) and people with weak immune systems to increase their levels within the reference range. Athletes can try to take Vitamine C after their exercise.

The citation of yours explicitly states “immunocompromised and immunosuppressed individuals”. That’s an “only use it if you are an immunocompromised and immunosuppressed individual” message. Unless you have a study that shows its use with COVID-19, i.e. a disease that causes immune overreaction, you can’t simply adopt this advice just as it.

  • Mon, Mar 23, 2020 - 12:20pm

    #5

    AKGrannyWGrit

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    5 Phases Of Covid19/Coronavirus & Their Treatment using Vitamin C and Chaga

Good point and important clarification!

 

  • Thu, Mar 26, 2020 - 09:32am

    #7
    Matties

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    5 Phases Of Covid19/Coronavirus & Their Treatment using Vitamin C and Chaga

Vitamin C may affect lung infections https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2099400/
Vitamin C for preventing and treating pneumonia https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23925826
Vitamin C and Infections https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5409678/
Vitamin C Can Shorten the Length of Stay in the ICU: A Meta-Analysis. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30934660
Combined vitamin C, hydrocortisone, and thiamine therapy for patients with severe pneumonia https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30029205
Vitamin C and acute respiratory infections. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10488881
Vitamin C supplementation and respiratory infections: a systematic review. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15605943
Is Vitamin C Beneficial to Patients with CAP? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27363830
Vitamin C, the Miracle Cure: 60 Minutes Living Proof https://youtu.be/xxWCNn1rIRo
Vitamin C, respiratory infections and the immune system https://www.cell.com/trends/immunology/comments/S1471-4906(03)00286-2
Vitamin C and Community-acquired Pneumonia https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/full/10.1164/ajrccm.184.5.621a
Vitamin C and pneumonia and other severe infections https://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/hemila/VitC_pneumonia.htm
Vitamin C and SARS coronavirus https://academic.oup.com/jac/article/52/6/1049/731701
Could Vitamin C be the Cure for Deadly Infections? https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/could-deadly-infections-be-cured-vitamin-c-180963843/
High-dose Intravenous Vitamin C as a Successful Treatment of Viral Infections https://riordanclinic.org/2014/02/high-dose-intravenous-vitamin-c-as-a-successful-treatment-of-viral-infections/
Mitochondria and the Coronavirus – The Vitamin C Connection https://www.evolutamente.it/mitochondria-the-coronavirus-the-vitamin-c-connection-part-3/
Chinese Medical Team Reports Successful Treatment of Coronavirus Patients with High-Dose Vitamin C https://www.dr-rath-foundation.org/2020/03/chinese-medical-team-report-successful-treatment-of-coronavirus-patients-with-high-dose-vitamin-c/
Intravenous vitamin C as adjunctive therapy for enterovirus/rhinovirus induced acute respiratory distress syndrome https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28224112
Gander J, Niederberger W (1936) Vitamin C in der Pneumonia Behandlung [Vitamin C in the treatment of pneumonia]. Münch Med Wschr 83:2074-7 https://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/hemila/T1.pdf or https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7b37/
490dfcdc7a98ba7e3bd744a15886873701db.pdf
Can Vitamin C Prevent and Treat Coronavirus? https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=228745
How to Use Vitamin C During Illness http://www.doctoryourself.com/cathcart_C_summary.html
Shanghai Government Officially Recommends Vitamin C for COVID-19 http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n16.shtml
Vitamin C Infusion for the Treatment of Severe 2019-nCoV Infected Pneumonia https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04264533
Vitamin C and COVID-19 Coronavirus http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n14.shtml
Three Intravenous Vitamin C Research Studies Approved for Treating COVID-19 http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n12.shtml
Early Large Dose Intravenous Vitamin C is the Treatment of Choice for 2019-nCov Pneumonia http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n11.shtml
Vitamin C and its Application to the Treatment of nCoV Coronavirus http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n09.shtml
Hospital-based Intravenous Vitamin C Treatment for Coronavirus and Related Illnesses http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n07.shtml
Vitamin C Protects Against Coronavirus http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n04.shtml

  • Thu, Mar 26, 2020 - 11:14am

    #8
    Sorin Zgimbau

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    5 Phases Of Covid19/Coronavirus & Their Treatment using Vitamin C and Chaga

Theoretically , you are right and I agree with you (I’m a big consumer of mushroom extracts)  , but here’s what I found about it :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19577624

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23917116

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22819687

What do you think of these articles ? ….I was surprised myself  !

  • Thu, Mar 26, 2020 - 11:36am

    #9
    williamweber

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    5 Phases Of Covid19/Coronavirus & Their Treatment using Vitamin C and Chaga

DURING SYMPTOMS OF INFECTION OR POSITIVE TEST FOR COVID-19:
To Avoid: Given the integral role of inflammatory cytokines (namely IL-1B and IL-18) in the
pathogenicity of COVID-19, as well as the impossibility of predicting which individuals are
susceptible to the “cytokine storm”, technically called secondary hemophagocytic
lymphohistiocytosis, or sHLH, it appears to be prudent to avoid high and regular use of
immunostimulatory agents which increase these cytokines. Again, in the absence of human
clinical data, caution is warranted with the following immune activating agents due to
preclinical evidence of increased IL-1B and/or IL-18 production in infected immune cells:
! Sambucus nigra (Elderberry)30
! Polysaccharide extracts from medicinal mushrooms31,32
! Echinacea angustifolia and E. purpurea33,34
! Larch arabinogalactan35
! Vitamin D36,37
Likely Safe: Other commonly used natural immunostimulatory and antiviral agents including
the following do not appear to increase IL-1B or IL-18 as a part of their immunomodulatory
actions. Several of these, in fact, reduce these cytokines and may restore immune homeostasis.
These are, therefore, likely safe to use both prior to, and during, COVID-19 infection. Whether
these agents mitigate the symptoms or virulence of COVID-19 is unknown and therefore the
benefit of these agents during COVID-19 infection is unknown.
• Allium sativum (garlic)38
• Quercetin39
• Astragalus membranaceus40,41
• Full mycelium mushroom extracts4243
• Mentha piperita (peppermint)44
• Andrographis paniculata45
• Zinc46
• Vitamin A47 [note: This study found that 25,000iu daily for 4 months in 84 women
resulted in lower serum IL-1b and IL-1b/IL-4 ratios in obese women. Oral vitamin A can
causes hypervitaminosis A especially at doses greater than 25,000 IU daily for more than
6 years or 100,000iu daily for more than 6 months.48 Monitoring liver function tests for
hepatotoxicity during vitamin A dosing of any duration, even at lower doses, is advised
given variable  individual sensitivity.]
• Vitamin C49  The information and understanding of COVID-19 continues to change rapidly. We encourage
you to make integrative recommendations carefully and with consideration of the underlying
mechanisms of both the COVID-19 infection and the intended intervention. It is also important
to reiterate that there are no clinically evidence-based integrative prevention or treatment
strategies for COVID-19 infection.
Lise Alschuler ND
Professor of Clinical Medicine, University of Arizona College of Medicine
Assistant Director, Fellowship in Integrative Medicine, Andrew Weil Center for Integrative
Medicine
Reviewed by:
Ann Marie Chiasson MD

  • Thu, Mar 26, 2020 - 01:30pm

    #9
    matfax

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    How Chaga Works

Thanks for sharing these links @Sorin Zgimbau. I had a look at them and here’s my view.

Unfortunately, the first and third studies provide only a limited descriptions of their setup. All three studies didn’t use a control+Chaga group to really understand what’s going on. But the setup of the study I referenced doesn’t provide that either. So let’s see what can be gathered.

(1) It’s shown in all three studies that Chaga significantly inhibits/normalizes/reduces nitrosative stress under provoked conditions if given in the right form and dose. The second study showed that Chaga needs to be grown on germinated brown rice and used in higher doses to effectively change LPS-induced NO levels when compared to H2O2-induced ROS. Supposedly, the germinated brown rice provides nutrients to the Chaga that really make it effective.

(2) The first study states “All fractions of the extracts significantly inhibited (p<0.05) the levels of IL-1beta, IL-6 and TNFalpha (…)”. However, looking at the limited data they provide, that seems to be a false and incomplete statement. Let me clarify this. Chaga did not “significantly” inhibit the levels of IL-1beta, IL-6, and TNFalpha. The impact on IL-1beta and TNF-alpha were negligible. In fact, their levels even increased slightly in the 50mcg group. IL-6 levels differed depending on the method they used to extract the Chaga. But it wasn’t significant either if you look at the result of Cranberry and Senega extracts. These are significant. Their form of extraction and/or cultivation of the Chaga did not make any significant difference on the cytokines.

(3) The third study showed that treatment was more effective than prevention.

My conclusion from these studies is that Chaga doesn’t have a great influence on cytokines. The study that I provided basically looked at the impact of chemotherapy-induced stress on the cytokines. This shapes my impression that the use of Chaga is mainly mediated by its inhibition of stressors. But I don’t think that it has a direct mechanism to modulate the immune response. Moreover, it seems to be of importance how the Chaga is cultivated, extracted and dosed.

  • Thu, Mar 26, 2020 - 02:04pm

    #10

    Jim H

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    5 Phases Of Covid19/Coronavirus & Their Treatment using Vitamin C and Chaga

It was only very recently… late last year in fact, that Paul Stamets’ ideas on how to best grow mushrooms and turn them into beneficial supplements was scientifically validated;

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/immune-benefits-of-mushroom-mycelium–fermented-substrate-validated-by-peer-reviewed-science-300970408.html

The idea behind incorporating the fermented brown rice substrate is that in this way, the supplement can contain mycelium as well as the fruiting bodies (what we usually think of as the mushroom).

Refreshingly, the actual research paper is open source;  https://bmccomplementmedtherapies.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12906-019-2681-7

I have been a very good customer of Paul’s products in the age of Covid… unfortunately they are getting hard to find at this time.

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