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I dare you to google "The Lucifer Project".


2 prison planets? 3,4,5,6…

max headroom…. mad max …….. blakes 7



7 billion people can be wrong, very wrong

This is an amazingly childish thread through no fault of the honest responders to the intitial (probably malicious) question.  I really think those who have such ridicule for those who do not believe as they do should (besides other obvious actions, like a stab at  education) take a look at the history of science to see how long it took the Western world to accept that our universe was heliocentric rather than earth centric.  Poor Galileo, in spite of all of his evidence, had to listen to this kind of ignorant crap from the status quo too.  

You act as though our knowledge of our universe stopped maybe 300 years ago, and any new idea since then is something to  snicker over.  Very unscientific, I’d say.  And probably just ignorance and fear in a jumble over our unknown future.


Oh come on Rosemary.  Get a grip.  You sound like we are persecuting a religeous sect.  We are just having a giggle. 

The Mayan calendar has nothing to do with Mayan people (as in the tribe who now inhabit parts of central america and have done for centuries). The "Mayan" calendar was made up by Jose Agruelles in 1985. He says so in his book The Mayan Factor, among other places. The calendar is mathematically flawed, and is exactly and entirely the Gregorian calendar with pretty pictures. A large majority of predictions/ theories about 2012 are based on Arguelles’ work.

Hi S Schauermann-

All joking aside- I spent 40 hrs over the last few years reading what is fact and what is theory and what is belief on 2012. I could easily spend another 80 hours next month filtering through this stuff. .  But, here’s my take:

The Mayan Calendar is a sophisticated logarithm that is based on astrology beyond what the 19th century understanding of it was and I found it to be more a calculation predicting fly-by patterns of an un-known, which modern man has yet to validate but (in theory) is influencing the solar system.  The math is complex and the fact that they are in within .5 degree of accuracy without using computer technology is amazing. The complexity of the logarithum seems to dictate a decaying orbit of Planet X.

According to several sources on the internet (Planet X Forecast and, we should be able to see the Planet X by the end of this month in the southern skys (viewed from Australia) and the US should be able to see it by mid-2010. Several sources say it is already influencing the outer planets and the proof was reported in US News in ’84 but I couldn’t yet find the article (however, see NASA site for melting ice caps on Mars and moons of Jupiter and Saturn), though NASA does not acknowledge it’s existance and will not until it is clearly visable.

Depending on your background, you will find this to be an interesting subject to filter through all the info and mis-info. But should this turn out to be the "extinction factor" – then you need to make your plans carefully and early.  EGP

I’ll out myself as a believer in the 2012 thing.  I don’t believe it’s "the end of the world" but I do believe it’ll be a paradigm change and we’re already seeing it turn over.  I’m hopeful about the future because of it.

Bunk complete bunk.

Planet X does not exist, nor can it. There are good astonomical reasons for it, a planet of any reasonable size has a settling pattern, in it’s orbit it either settles into a normal elliptical orbit (as the 8 known planets, and Pluto have), falls into the sun or goes off into the universe, highly elliptical orbits of any reasonably sized planetoid cannot occur.

Hell people have been searching for Planet X with all kinds of stuff for years, the IR universal survey turned up nothing which is the 1984 thing you’re discussing, the "object" or better anomaly detected was too hot to be a planet that far out, and far to big too, the theory is that there is a large body that does not have enough mass to achieve spontaneous Fusion. It’s also been being observed ever since by Hubble and other Space borne observation devices, it’s not moving or coming closer.

May I ask ff the several sources on the internet you’re mentioning might they also include lizard men masquerading as World Leaders, that there is a sphinx face on mars (which was debunked too with the Mars Survey and lander), or written by Erik von Daniken.

Then there’s traversing the Galactic Equator theory, which began in 1998 and will end in 2016, so why would 2012 be significant, surely 2007 is more significant since that’s when we crossed the mid point of the galactic equator.

Interestingly from a Mayan Calendar perspective, people should realize that there are several previous ages, some of which are quite interesting from a theoretical perspective, like the one that potentially occurred when the northern tip of Antarctica became Glacial. Indeed there is a lot of evidence that the ending of a cycle from the Mayans was a period of great celebration, not fear and destruction.

The biggest controversy there is in the Mayan calendar isn’t that it ends, its not clear when it starts, so any dates around its end are not entirely accurate. There are 3 main starting dates August 13th 3114 BC, 11th August 3114 BC and October 15th 3374 BC, and a plethora of other estimates, so we might already have had it, it could terminate on the winter Solstice 2012 or Dec 23rd 2012. Again there’s not any indication that the Mayans state that this is the "end of the world" but that it’s the "end of a cycle" big difference. Of course most of this is based on the Mayan Prophecies, and "end of the cycle" doesn’t sell books, but boy does "end of the world" sell books.

Most respectible Mayan researchers, are more than happy to debunk this, since sadly they identify that its exactly this kind of popular armageddon theories that destroy peoples amazement in the Mayan culture, and they focus on the armageddon theories, from people who were out to make a buck.

One other point yes the Mayans had an accurate calendar, but they had a lot of people working on it, in clean air, and making physical observations, remember at the time being involved in this was a high honor, so people wanted to do this and be part of it, I’m also pretty sure that excellent eyesight was a requirement. It isn’t rocket science, nor does it take armies of slaves to build the pyramids, it did take armies of workers though.

Here’s another list of "End of the World" Dates that have already passed or yet to come…

I like 53 CE, we survived that one by a scrape,

1000 CE, since round numbers are always ominous

1666 the year of the beast, with a one in front of it.

1969 year of my birth, predicted by Charlie Manson, due to racial war erupting

1982, the second coming, well, we’re still here, I guess we missed the rapture flight

1984, For the tenth time the Jehova’s witnesses witnessed the inaccurate prediction of the end of the world

2000, round numbers are ominous a second time, but also dividing by 3 produces 666.66666 recurring

2003, death by comet, hmm, I must have slept through that one

2008, slept through that one too, or maybe I was doing something else that day and missed the news

2014 as declared by Pope Leo IX, since it was 500 years from something he wrote in 1514

3797 as predicted by Nostradamus

Anyway you get the picture.

Here’s a link explaining that the 2012 date is transformative, not the end of the world.


The Mayan were actually very advanced. The calendar they adopted is still the most accurate calendar to date. Their mathmatical skills were well beyond any other culture of their time. Its rather sad, when the conquistadors came to concquer their land and people, they saw the work the Maya were doing, sacrafices and so on, and considered it all satanism. Decided they should be converted to the true religion. That was the end of the Maya. All most every written document the Maya had produced was burned in pit fires. All we are left with now is what is written on temples, and I think they may have one or two books belonging to the Maya still in existence. This is the reason we know almost nothing about them.

As for the 2012, Nubaru stuff. I think that is wishful thinking on someones part. The mayan calendar does have a cycle conclude in 2012, but the calendar doesn’t reset to zero, it keeps on going. I don’t think it resets to zero for billions of years. Interesting stuff though.

Here is a good website, accurately describing the Mayan Calendar.

This is a quote from the above link, in the Mayan Creation Dates section. You have to read it in its entirety, but its good stuff.

"For me, Pakal’s information is unequivocal evidence that they did not view the coming 4 Ahaw 3 K’ank’in as a world ending date, but rather just another terrribly important date that would have been celebrated much like we are going to celebrate the millennium. I’m sure there would have been prophecies of doom just as there are now—but just as we contemplate that time will simply continue to 2001 etc (or we would not have Startrek and Starwars), so they contemplated that time would also continue in their concept of the world or Pakal would not have written what he did."

Thanks SPM, that’s exactly the link I was looking for but couldn’t find again.


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