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    Fauci politics over science

    Fauci Places Politics Over Science (and your health)

    Yes, I'm disappointed
    by Chris Martenson

    Tuesday, September 29, 2020, 6:45 PM

If you care about your health, and the role of science in shaping policy, this video is for you.

First, let me re-re-state that I am *not* political. At all.

This video is in support of science and is neither in support of or against any politician, bureaucrat, or political party. That said, Anthony Fauci’s recent Senate testimony was a hot mess of anti-scientific statements and (willful? Ignorant?) overlooking of known science.

While showing how he was deficient in his statements I present the science that supports views directly opposite to his testimony. Herd immunity is discussed. T-cell cross-reactivity, and how the NIAID/NIH/CDC/FDA are *still* not recommending that everyone take Vitamin D. It’s truly a shameful moment for medicine and science. It’s the triumph of ego, politics and money over compassion and doing the right thing.

In this video you will learn that:

  • Herd immunity seems to have been achieved, mainly in lower economic countries (a.k.a. “third world”)
  • That t-cell cross-reactivity with the common cold coronaviruses is indeed a very real thing (according to the NIH’s own scientists)
  • That adequate Vitamin D levels are associated with a halving of the rate of Covid-19 mortality
  • That Fauci confuses correlation with causation – a big no-no in the world of science.

It really shouldn’t be this confused at this point. But it is, and not because the science is muddled.

I’m pretty certain that the Youtube algos will shut this video down, unsubscribe people, etc.  All because I’m focusing on the science and daring to think for myself and use logic.  Those are no-nos in this Brave New World.

Links:

The Sweden States – Peak Prosperity member Base12

https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/the-sweden-states/#post-584253

SARS2 – Tcell Cross Reactivity

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/immune-cells-common-cold-may-recognize-sars-cov-2

https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30610-3.pdf

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/04/science.abd3871

T-Cells Political Football

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2253386-what-are-t-cells-and-why-have-they-become-a-political-football/

NY 22 % seropositive

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/commercial-lab-surveys.html

Vitamin D in UK

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/26/correcting-britains-vitamin-d-deficiency-could-save-thousands/

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233 Comments

  • Tue, Sep 29, 2020 - 7:25pm

    #1
    mbeasley

    mbeasley

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    3

    youtube censorship?

    Amazing. In this video at about 9:02 a forbidden word has been removed from the audio stream.

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  • Tue, Sep 29, 2020 - 8:17pm

    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

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    wotthecurtains said:

    I thought that was Chris having a little fun.

     

    Alternatively I have heard of other YouTubers doing that to avoid getting demonetized.

     

    Maybe Chris can clarify what happened there because he did say the forbidden word a few more times during that video without any "enhancement"

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  • Tue, Sep 29, 2020 - 8:56pm

    #3
    nordicjack

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    Really losing sight and taking eye off the ball.

    I am really seeing something really wrong going on that is obvious and way out of whack.First,  lets talk about sweden.  I am not sure if their lack of NPIs are affecting anything.  I would not say it would prove or disprove anything about the virus and how many have been infected or imply any sort of herd immunity.

    Lets more focus on what the heck is going on with this second wave..  The so called second wave. Where we have more infections but less deaths.   People are at a lost to explain what is going.   The only real suggestion is a lot more people have had this and its a lot less deadly than it first appeared.     I am going to blow that last statement out of the water and get back to standard rational rather than wishful politization.

    This disease has become less deadly, only for two reasons.  1. Those becoming infected are much much younger.  2. we have better standard of care.

    1 is a much greater factor right now.  Young people have pretty much said screw the NPI rules. AND the old people are safe harboring on their own.  AS i continue to do, as I am sure Dr Martenson is doing.   As are all the older, sick and obese people I know.

    I want to bring another to point as we speak about the progression of sweden with their beliefs about NPI.. The state has pretty much admitted to survival of the fittest.  So, even if they have no policies, you think those at risk are not taking protections?  of course they are/.   Additionally, regarding spread there.  It should be known that more than 50% of all house holds in sweden are 1 person.   So, house hold size is extremely low compared to other countries.  I would consider spread among household to be one of the greatest risks.   Chris has also mentioned that there is also a greater social etiquette in general in swedes compared to countries like the US  So, with all this considered it time to through out why their curve looks like everyone else when they have different policies..   They really dont when you account for the differences in society behaviors.  So now that we have dispatched with all that.  lets get to the facts that we should be focusing on.

    The disease is (falsely) less lethal than now - that originally thought because of the following:

    1. standard of care is much better and more is understood.
    2. people at the greatest risk have taken it upon themselves to protect themselves
    3. people who are not at risk are spreading at high-rates
    4. testing is much greater  - as is the increase in false positives

    So, those things in combination can explain easily that seemingly irrational curve we have been trying to figure out.

    But more importantly , with all that said, we have forgotten how deadly these disease is really to those at risk.   It is as big of problem as it has always been for those.   We are not near herd immunity because the death rate has fallen.. Its only due to those are infecting and spreading ( young .)  and better standard of care.

    Lastly and probably more importantly.  We are nowhere near herd immunity when you account for all those factors.   AND we have over-looked that just because you dont die and have mild or asymptomatic disease,  things are all ok.    Ultimately, the data shows that fully 91% of covid survivors have long-term non resolving conditions related to their infection.. with over 76% saying that have chronic fatigue.  And over 25% saying that have cognitive difficulties.      Its time to realize, its not ok to get this at any age.. In fact , I argue a dead elderly person with many health conditions is a far preferable out-come than a 26 year old new mom or dad, that cannot work ever again.

    Lets dispel with notion that there is some peak that mirror over the world and that there is some sort of herd immunity.. Its not happening and its not close.. Just go to one wedding one restaurant.. and 5o people sick with symptoms and infecting all their daily household and work contacts.   It still happening . look at notre dame football. ( one meal )

    for reference just look at the following growth chart of my county........ 600 cases at the end of June,  6000 and the end of aug  and not even end of sept and 10000.   wave one over??  already happened??  I am not sure what math and charts people are looking at but I assure its not close to accurate.   We did not hit herd immunity , not even close. and even if everyone had it , you are still not immune.. Trust me , I will bet my life on this.. AND I am certain all are wrong on this.  I am not sure where and how they are taking the data.. BUT it is not real and it not taken in proper context.     I am not making an argument for or against NPIs as i said it does not matter what the govt does.. the people will act according to their own current environment.. no government mandates required.. I am taking action.. and has nada to do with my government.

    My county growth rate

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 1:25am

    #4

    davefairtex

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    19

    Fauci, FOIA, and Chris

    The nicest possible face I could put on Fauci's actions is that he is an utterly sociopathic weasel. He is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans, due to negligence in reporting to us what "the science" tells us about how to prevent COVID-19. He talks only about washing hands, wearing a mask, hiding in the basement, and waiting for a vaccine.

    It turns out, the data tells us there is are other - really effective - things we can do, the very least of which is supplementing with vitamin-D. That alone cuts risk by 50%.

    Fauci is in a leadership role. Why is he playing games with the lives of Americans in this way? We need an investigation: what did he know, and when did he know it. Search warrants, compelled testimony, and if his phone ends up magically wiped, well that's obstruction of justice and we drop him in the tank for 5 years.

    Ultimately, we need accountability. From him, and from his entire organization. Why have they been lying to us, and how long have they been doing it?  And why?

    We could kickstart the process by filing a FOIA request for any and all emails, papers, and documents within the NIAID discussing vitamin-D supplementation and COVID-19. A FOIA request isn't difficult to file. I've actually done it before.

    As for Chris, he is probably much less worried because (I'm guessing) he now has two things:
    1) a supply of apple-flavored horse dewormer, and
    2) a supply of vitamin-D.

    With these two things, and armed with the recent data, he has cut his risk of having a severe COVID-19 outcome by (my guess) 95%.  This is "better than vaccine" level of protection.  So of course he is less worried.  Wouldn't you be?

    New facts = new viewpoint.  That's how Chris works.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 3:13am

    #5
    RandomMike

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    Fauci likes Vitamin D

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/14/supplements-white-house-advisor-fauci-takes-every-day-to-help-keep-his-immune-system-healthy.html

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 4:05am

    davefairtex

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    fauci likes vitamin D

    RandomMike-

    Sure he does.  Fauci loves vitamin-D.  Vitamin-D might be more effective than a vaccine, especially for old people, or fat people, both types of people who do not generate great immune responses from vaccinations.  [41% of the US population is obese; 15% are elderly, both groups are unusually vitamin-D deficient.  Both groups are much more vulnerable to COVID-19, probably for this reason].

    So what action does Fauci take?  Fauci mentions it in passing in an interview, then moves right back to the CDC's recommendations:

    "wash your hands, wear a mask, hide in the basement, and wait for the vaccine."

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 5:27am

    #7

    sand_puppy

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    17

    Please offer links to supporting evidence, original graphs

    Several posters are clearly very bright, have studied these topics at lengths, and have well developed conclusions.    May I request posters supply links to supporting evidence and sources. A strong opinion without supporting data is just an assertion.

    (My barber, when I was a boy, had strong opinions about EVERYTHING and would assert them, as he cut your hair, with absolute conviction.  I would puzzle about how he came to such certainty about so many topics!)

    NordickJack, you mention "my country."  Which country is that?

    And everyone:  Graphs are hard to read on PP as the browser shrinks them.  We need to be able to go to the source page and see the graph clearly.  Also, we need to be able to see the article and information from which the graph is made.

    What is herd immunity?

    Gompertz function and Swedens Cumulative Death Rate

    The Gompertz function begins with the familiar "hockey stick" shape of exponential growth as each infected in turn infect an average of 3 more people (using the example of Ro=3).  But at some, the exponential growth rate begins to be tempered by some other factors.   Such as decreasing density of disease susceptible individuals that come into contact with the already infected.   The growth tapers off and the hockey stick changes shape, coming to level off.  That is, cumulative death rate tapers off.  This is what we see with Sweden.

    You can still get infected in Sweden, but the rate of new infections  (at the population level) is at a trickle, no longer a flood.   Herd immunity does not mean that the individual is safe.  It is a population-based statistical phenomenon.

    From Worldometer (halfway down the page).  Sweden's cumulative deaths graph

    The variability hypothesis for herd immunity brought to this forum by DaveF  [DaveF where is that source article??] some months ago suggests that herd immunity is reached in pockets, but NOT uniformly throughout a whole population.   The nurse who rides a crowded subway to and from work might be the center of one such pocket where enough immunity is established within a few weeks that ongoing infections continue only at a trickle, but no longer a flood.  (The individual can still get infected, but the numbers aren't high from a population perspective.)  While an isolated farm community just a few mile away would be in another pocket --one without herd immunity.

    The above linked article mentions higher levels of immunity in densely packed Mumbai slums.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 5:42am

    #8

    davefairtex

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    heterogenous populations have lower herd immunity thresholds

    Here we demonstrate that individual variation in susceptibility or exposure(connectivity) accelerates the acquisition of immunity in populations. More susceptible and more connected individuals have a higher propensity to be infected and thus are likely to become immune earlier. Due to this selective immunisation, heterogeneous populations require less infections to cross their herd immunity thresholds than homogeneous (or not sufficiently heterogeneous) models would suggest.

    We integrate continuous distributions of susceptibility or connectivity in otherwise basic epidemic models for COVID-19 and show that as the coefficient of variation increases from 0 to 4, the herd immunity threshold declines from over 60% to less than 10%.

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.20081893v1.full.pdf

    Note that lockdowns have the unfortunate effect of turning "heterogeneous populations" into "homogeneous populations".  I.e. more people end up getting infected due to lockdowns - although it takes a lot longer for this process to take place.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 6:00am

    RandomMike

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    H. Wormer

    Try it for skin problems also, I have had good results.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 6:02am

    #10
    VTGothic

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    Can we be too sterile?

    COVID-19 may have a lower mortality rate in these three countries...than in high income countries, due to differences in immune response, prior exposure to coronaviruses, disease characteristics or other factors.

    "... due to differences in immune response, prior exposure to coronaviruses ..."

    This is the "no-brainer" I've been waiting for: I have this abiding suspicion that the reason we haven't seen the devastating effects in the Third World that I would have expected, nor a holocaust among our own homeless population for that matter, has to do with natural immune responses long-tuned by less sterile conditions of daily life.

    Part of that, of course, has to do with multi-generational Darwinism: those with systems too fragile for a more harsh environment than we wealthy First Worlders are accustomed to living within die young; those meeting some minimal natural threshold thrive and reproduce. Perhaps, where we have successfully contravened that ongoing generational selectivity we turn out to be more health-fragile - rather like coddled hot house flowers.

    It will be ironic - but, imo, expected - if it turns out that because we overly sterilize everything from infancy to advanced old age, from our hands and clothing to our food, homes, and workplaces, that we have weakened - perhaps, crippled - our immune systems. Hyper-sterilization includes our preoccupation with preventative inoculations that interrupt the proper and necessary exercise of our immune response. It wouldn't surprise me to discover that our preoccupation with killing "germs" contributes to our Honey Badger disease and mortality issues.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 6:10am

    davefairtex

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    8

    genius

    VT-

    It will be ironic - but, imo, expected - if it turns out that because we overly sterilize everything from infancy to advanced old age, from our hands and clothing to our food, homes, and workplaces, that we have weakened - perhaps, crippled - our immune systems. Hyper-sterilization includes our preoccupation with preventative inoculations that interrupt the proper and necessary exercise of our immune response. It wouldn't surprise me to discover that our preoccupation with killing "germs" contributes to our Honey Badger disease and mortality issues.

    A classic case of winning the battle, but losing the war.

    According to Bruce Lipton, there's a reason why babies put everything nearby into their mouth - they are engaging in a self-vaccination program for all the nearby pathogens.

    Great thesis.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 8:04am

    #12
    2retired

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    2retired said:

    In the Buddhist tradition, politicians are the most venal of all; unfortunately that is still on display.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 8:09am

    #13

    000

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    Masking rationale

    If one is part of the herd ie. testing positive for anti-bodies and recovered from the illness, what is the rationale for wearing a splash mask if distancing is available? Is social signaling enough? Seems to this observer that masked people are compromising on distancing. I even saw someone pull off their mask to sneeze!

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 9:19am

    tatagiri

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    bad science here

    The death rates of babies are also the highest than any other group. surely, putting everything in mouth is helping. https://www.statista.com/statistics/241572/death-rate-by-age-and-sex-in-the-us/  

    Whoever is getting anxious about over sterile - please drink a glass of your toilet bowl to keep your immune system busy.

     

     

     

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 9:35am

    davefairtex

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    1

    bad science?

    tatagirl-

    The death rates of babies are also the highest than any other group. surely, putting everything in mouth is helping.

    Bad science huh?  There's another interpretation to your data.  Perhaps the babies who die are the ones getting exposed prior to contracting the ILIs that provide them that T-cell immunity.

    Once through it - after age 1 - they've all been exposed to a number of ILIs, and as a result they are then largely immune to COVID-19.

    If you dispute this - maybe you can come up with a "good science" explanation for why pre-toddler stage babies die, while just slightly older children appear to be largely immune.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 9:57am

    tatagiri

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    babies have a developing immune system

    they start with antibodies of mother and later develop their immune system, it is fragile but it is growing faster. babies can generate t-cells faster than adults or older people - so they have better chances of fighting or fight it out faster.

    Net- Net: what is good for baby may not necessarily good for a 70 year old . So, i am very cautious of flippant ideas that somehow population needs to expose themselves to get this herd immunity. The whole XYZ theory is wooo woo and useless . Nobody can tell if you reached Herd immunity or not. They simply do not have data to support what X, Y and Z values are. According to CDC, 10% of US has been exposed to covid - did it stop ?? not at all. So, please don't spread this herd immunity theories. Also as sandpuppy pointed out - herd immunity means nothing for an individual if they are exposed to virus. Unless, they have pre-existing immunity an individual will suffer of covid if they are exposed to virus - even if the population reached herd immunity (lets say 70%).

    We do not know yet  how covid interacts with immune system or why seemingly similar people one would have asympotmatic and other would be in ICU or have death. So, without the data and research - the best bet is stay calm, wear masks, take vitamin d etc..

     

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 10:22am

    #17

    000

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    Will Dr. Fauci Admit He Eats Herring For Breakfast?

    https://www.nutritionadvance.com/herring-nutrition-benefits/

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 10:36am

    Quercus bicolor

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    1

    linked death rate tables

    tatagirl,

    Those are all-cause death rates.  They are highest for babies probably due to the higher death rate of those born prematurely as well as those born with birth defects, particularly life-threatening ones.  Deaths for children and young adults are dominated by traumatic injuries and, sadly suicides and overdoses.  Among older adults they are dominated by various diseases, especially cancer and heart disease.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 10:57am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

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    15

    To Toilet or Not to Toilet, is that the question?

    Whoever is getting anxious about over sterile - please drink a glass of your toilet bowl to keep your immune system busy.

    Heh. I think we can find at least one point somewhere between sterilization of every surface all the time and drinking toilet water - in the same way that we can find a point or two short of killing all insects in a garden to curtail predation by the harmful.

    For myself, I want bugs and bacteria in my garden soil and on my plants, just as I want a diverse and healthy gut biome - something demonstrably lacking in the modern Western wo/man, and an increasingly-suspected contributor to modern maladies and diminished vitality (Sonnenberg and Sonnenberg of Stanford Med School, "The Good Gut").

    I say: put down the Lysol; in most every case that's literally overkill. But also avoid the toilet water.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 11:44am

    #20
    vshelford

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    6

    a "peck" of dirt

    My grandmother (a nurse) used to quote an old saying: "you've got to eat a peck of dirt before you die".  They came from the time before vaccines or antibiotics or indeed anything that could "artificially" arrest the course of a disease.  Her work was to nurse the "terrain" - the basic strength of the human system - until the patient's body either overcame the disease or succumbed.  I have some treasured scraps of gifts and notes of gratitude from patients she stayed with until they pulled through (she worked in a tuberculosis hospital).  I agree that we have cleaned and disinfected our way to a state of fragility as a population.  No idea whether overall this is a good or a bad thing.  What great people might have died in infancy once, who lived on to be of benefit?  I have read that the polio epidemics of my youth have been traced quite probably to the explosion of enthusiasm for disinfecting everything when they found what a difference it made in hospital settings.  Instead of picking up the polio virus as an infant, from the water or whatever, and being immune because of my mother's antibodies, so I became immune myself, that direct line of immunity died out, and we became vaccine dependent.  Except the for generation that came between the disinfection and the vaccine, like mine.  This perfectly explains the phenomenon we've all noticed, that the homeless and ghetto populations weren't wiped out because of their proximity, as was expected.  They had a generalized immunity based in survival.  NOT the kinder, gentler way of life we've idealized and striven for, but definitely the species' default state.  It certainly has a place in the discussion!

    And a GREAT VIDEO, Chris - thank you!  I shall spread it around.

    **Periodically edited to remove the effects of autocorrect and malicious pixies...

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 12:08pm

    #21
    TreePlanter

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    In the Netherlands - second wave coming

    Covid new admissions to hospitals in The Netherlands (per day) Link

    Here in the Netherlands, there is a clear second wave coming and really causing damage to people - we are nowhere near full immunity.

    As you can see in the graph above, there are still much fewer admissions to hospitals compared with April 2020. However, it is more than 10x more admissions compared with July...

    We have a doubling every second week right now.

    And I concur the observations above, that risk zone people (old/ill/fat/weak/compromised) are much more cautious now than in January-February 2020. Therefore the rise is slower.

    I am not in a risk zone but nevertheless, I try my very best to improve my immune system and to get as small inoculum as possible. I am still scared of the potential long-term consequences of this virus. Anecdotically, half of the people I know who had the virus (4 out of 8) still have health problems 6 months later...

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 1:05pm

    VTGothic

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    VTGothic said:

    @vshelford, my mom had the same approach as your grandmother, only she said that "peck of dirt" should be eaten by age 5.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 1:58pm

    #23
    Prep101

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    Follow the money: Bill Gates pledged 100 million dollar to Fauci

    I would rather say that Fauci Places Money Over Science (and your health).

    But Fauci is not that important. More important is who is behind Fauci. Again, if you follow the money it leads to Bill Gates:

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/corruption/did-bill-gates-buy-the-cdc/

    "Dr. Anthony Fauci has a $100 million conflict of interest which is why he was opposing Trump. He is in league with Bill Gates who has pledged $100 million for Fauci to play with."

    and:

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/gates-fauci-above-the-law/

    "The left media like the Washington Post, New York Times, and CNN protect Fauci and have constantly come out against hydroxychloroquine. They insist we all must be vaccinated or be denied the right to freely move, hold a job, or travel. Fauci is working with Bill Gates; he and Gates talk all the time and are involved in this vaccine conspiracy, so naturally, Fauci will always reject any study of hydroxychloroquine.

    Here is a clip of Gates publicly admitting he is in a partnership with Fauci to bring in vaccines. This is his ONLY solution and they will not listen to anything else. It is astonishing how US agencies are allowed to accept money and be taken over by private donors."

    It's no rocket-science: hydroxychloroquine is a competitor for vaccines (which Bill Gates is hell-bent to administer to the population. Therefore, hydroxychloroquine must be censored and fear must be ramped up. Bill Gates needs people like Fauci for that. It's human nature, but the ultra-ultra-ultra rich are just much more arrogant.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 2:39pm

    vshelford

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    Replying to VTGothic

    @vshelford, my mom had the same approach as your grandmother, only she said that "peck of dirt" should be eaten by age 5.

    And it probably was too 🙂   I remember quoting it to a young guy who was worrying about sending his child to nursery school, because of the germs (this was 20 years ago), and he went white and looked aghast.  I can't help wondering how his child fared.

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 10:17pm

    Lisa Mooney

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    20

    Lisa Mooney said:

    Excellent points and I completely agree. As does Dr Zach Bush. Germ 🦠 Theory versus Terrain. The ? of our time. As a 25 year RN and IBCLC, I believe Scientists think they have solved the riddle of the human body. But after my knowledge base had to be changed/updated every decade due to new discoveries, IMHO only 1/2 or less of what we think we know about the human body is correct, even now. The fact that a mother’s Immune system does not reject her Fetus even though it is only 1/2 the same genetics. We still do not fully understand how that is possible. When you realize what an amazing living fluid Breast Milk is. Our species nutritionally complete first sustenance and biological primer for every organ/tissue/cell in the human body, including the Immune system. Breast milk is not a sterile fluid, many species of bacteria both good and potentially pathogenic, are normally present. The fact that many Mastitis infections can clear without antibiotics if you support the breast and nurture the Mom is a miracle and a mystery. We view the Immune system through a paradigm of War. So we miss the delicate, intricate, threads 🧵 that connect the massive Spider Web of a human’s exposures over a lifetime.  Each thread carries a sliver of information in Real Time needed to Orchestrate a Response. Blowing through that Spider Web with a Bazooka thus destroying those slivers is how we have been operating for far too long.  By wanting to isolate and purify ... we created “Baby Formula” and denied our need for a living white blood. Allowing the species to survive but I would argue not thrive.  We need to support the systems we already have and which have proven to be effective over the eons of time our species has survived. For the record I am not against the wonderful antibiotics we have if we need them or Anti Vax but rather Smart Vax.. IE Kids need to get chicken pox and have active life long immunity. Not the live Varicella vaccine the Kids get now, which I have seen many patients fully vaccinated as Kids and no longer Immune as a pregnant adult. Can’t give live vaccine while pregnant, so no booster and an anxious 9 months, as risks to fetus and mom if you get chicken pox while pregnant. While the vast majority of total kids to get chicken pox back in the day had mild to moderate Sx and recovered without long term issues. So what are the consequences of destroying that Spider Web?

    Lisa

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  • Wed, Sep 30, 2020 - 10:51pm

    #26
    nordicjack

    nordicjack

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Feb 03 2020

    Posts: 737

    1

    And just to think the government's 1 single job

    The governments only real job is not to stimulate the economy , print off money. make loans out of thin air etc..  Their one and ONLY job is to provide for the "health and welfare" of its citizens.  How ironic....!

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 3:40am

    RandomMike

    RandomMike

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 12 2020

    Posts: 73

    4

    It's a Jungle out there

    Upton Sinclair — 'It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.'

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 4:47am

    #28

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2190

    8

    children in the house => adult risk reduction for COVID-19

    Saw this interesting study - possibly on point:

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.21.20196428v1

    Conclusion: Increased household exposure to young children was associated with an attenuated risk of testing positive for SARS-CoV-2 and appeared to also be associated with an attenuated risk of COVID-19 disease severe enough to require hospitalisation.

    An association ... was obtained for any case of COVID-19 (fully adjusted model, HR per child 0.89; 95% CI 0.84-0.95).

    Takeaway: living with children (0-11 years) effectively protects adults.  More kids = more protection.  One would think this might also work for teachers of young children, and daycare workers too.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 4:54am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 828

    10

    Brilliant Lisa...Thanks

    I totally agree that we should be “smart vaxers” and that starts by nurturing our immune systems.

    I’m doing all the preps I’ve learned on PP. And appreciate Chris having the humility to update the list and accept new findings. (NAC is now in the “not helpful” category).

    I’m sure I was exposed to SarsCov2. Three people also got sick, and one older man died shortly after sitting next to the person who tested positive. I was very close to this person. I took an antibody test afterwards ....certain that it would be positive....but it came back negative. All I know is that I’m healthy today....and plan to keep on a sensible program.

    Also in terms of preemptive activity....I think it’s time to check your pantry and stock up again....The Covid warning is now replaced by the anarchy warning....It’s coming.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 5:19am

    #30

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2442

    16

    Vitamin D levels and sunny HOT climates

    I shared a cab ride with a functional medicine doctor from Florida.  I said something about "At least your patients will all have excellent Vitamin D levels" with all the sunshine in your state.    She surprised me by pointing out that it is hot enough in Florida that most stay indoors avoiding the sun.  Especially the elderly.

    Their Vitamin D levels are uniformly low.  Supplementation makes a lot of sense.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 5:20am

    Kathy

    Kathy

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 21 2020

    Posts: 56

    13

    Provide for the common defense

    I realize this is an international board, but IMO the federal government’s job is to defend the county.  The health and welfare of the people is up to the people.  If they want to band together as a smaller community (church, HOA, militia,  city, county, state) to self govern and improve their health and welfare they should be free to do so but I do not want the federal government robbing me of my freedom to decide what “health and welfare” should look like.  That is part of the problem we are having even with the state governments.  There is no reason a state governor should be able to step between me and my doctor and ban my doctor from prescribing HQC for whatever we (me and my doctor) decide is appropriate for me.  Yet that is what is happening.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 5:24am

    Susan7

    Susan7

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 77

    5

    The Peck of Dirt

    That’s amazing. My grandmother always told me that too! I had a hazy idea about what a “peck” was but I got the idea. I was always worried that these pecks might be in my food 😝

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 5:54am

    #33

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2190

    3

    a peck

    Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers.

    A peck (according to Britannica) = 8 dry quarts.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 6:15am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 828

    17

    Sorry....Couldn’t Resist

    Peak Prosperity Protected a Pack of Petrified Preppers. How Many Petrified Preppers did Peak Prosperity Protect?

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 7:17am

    Grover

    Grover

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    Joined: Feb 15 2011

    Posts: 784

    7

    Ivermectin Paste

    davefairtex wrote:

    As for Chris, he is probably much less worried because (I'm guessing) he now has two things:
    1) a supply of apple-flavored horse dewormer, and
    2) a supply of vitamin-D.

    I stopped by a local "farm" store this week and bought a tube of apple-flavored horse dewormer - Ivermectin Paste - for $4.99 before sales tax. It contained enough product for a 1250 pound horse. If/when I need it, I'll take about 1/6 of the contents. Would the AMA approve? Hell, NO!

    Grover

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 10:40am

    #36
    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

    6

    Dirt

    Some people are water people, I am a dirt person.  One of my best memories at 3 yo was when Dad had babysitting duty and was building our house.  He set me up on a dirt patch by a low water spicket with a pie pan and went back to work.  An hour later, when he came to check, I was a mud ball, dirt in my hair, head to toe, happy as a clam. My mom never was in a good mood, so when Dad peeled me off the newspapers on the car seat, the fun and games were over.

     

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 11:12am

    #37
    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

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    Joined: Feb 27 2020

    Posts: 102

    4

    Ivermetcin paste

    Im surprised there hasn't been more pushback from the media over Ivermectin honestly. 

     

    Then again the "alternative therapies" debate has been utterly shut down in popular culture to the point that you don't hear a peep about HCQ even as a "tinfoil hat remedy" anymore.  Reminds me of the part of Atlas Shrugged where the authorities are wondering what to do when someone puts unfavorable ideas into the public and they are wondering how to respond.   One of the authorities points out that you just don't respond.  You just keep going as if nothing has been said.  I guess thats the plan.

     

     

    Still I was expecting to see some commentary about MAGA hat wearers "taking horse dewormer in the belief that somehow it could stop a coronavirus."  The story would end with an expert lamenting why people are getting so "antiscience".

     

    I wouldn't count on being able to enjoy that delicious apple flavor forever.   The narrative is very clear that a vaccine is the only way the current imprisonment shut-down can go away and anythng that threatened that would have to be made to disappear.

     

    I have the expensive pills myself but I may buy the paste too just to be part of the fun.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 11:16am

    RandomMike

    RandomMike

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    Joined: Mar 12 2020

    Posts: 73

    0

    XM RADIO

    A Dr. on XM Dr radio a couple weeks ago said one sentence abt IMectin, in distain, and nothing else. I sent them some of the test results fm here.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 1:43pm

    #39
    kunga

    kunga

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    Posts: 368

    0

    Disappointed

    Good video, thanks, Chris.  Re: Vit. D, remember, older folks don't make as much in the sun and fructose, esp. high fructose corn syrup hinders the bio. conversion in the liver.

    Look up "smirk" in Webster's, Fauci's face is there.  When I think JC died for these people, I hope for repentance. However, I think Slim has left the building.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 1:44pm

    Gerrit de Wit

    Gerrit de Wit

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    Joined: Feb 06 2020

    Posts: 15

    6

    Gerrit de Wit said:

    Fully agree with Nordicjack, except for his statement that he prefers a dead elderly person with (many) health problems over a 26 year old mom or dad. I am an elderly person, healthy, but I have heard too many times recently that elderly persons are unproductive and actually dead wood that should be pruned. This is insulting and I hope Nordicjack may have not meant it this way, but I take it hard.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 3:43pm

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 126

    11

    Reverence for all Life

    A society that regards the unborn as a nuisance and therefore disposable will sooner or later extend that view to the elderly and then to other "nuisances".  Precedent matters, doesn't it?

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 5:33pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 767

    1

    Baby immunity

    tatagiri, how do babies get the anti-bodies and T-cells from their mother. They have different blood circulation so I don't see how that occurs.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 6:01pm

    #43

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 767

    2

    Science?

    Chris, I noticed a few things about the data you presented which I'd like you to comment on.

    1. The study (you forgot the link in the write up) about herd immunity starts off with what appears to be cherry picking. They "selected" 12 low income countries and then stated that "most" of them appear to follow the herd immunity narrative (thus dismissing those which don't).
    2. For these countries, the initial peak occurred well after most other countries and this may be a reason for not yet seeing what many others are seeing.
    3. Many of the graphs have modeled lines giving a false impression of the actual data. None of the countries (except perhaps CAR) can be said to be following the latter half of the projected case load. In some cases, the actual data is well off the projections (or only slightly down from the peak so far).
    4. Is there any consistency in how the countries collect and report the data?
    5. The study has since been updated and Ethiopia has been deleted (so they are down to 11 countries). I couldn't find a reason for the exclusion but it may be because the latest data show it to be well off the modeled curve.
    6. The study hasn't been peer reviewed.
    7. The intro has also been changed from that presented by Chris but I can't see how they can suggest an infection rate of between 45% and 80% of population but that only between 0.05% and 2.86% have been detected. The top of the range (2.86%) is over 50 times the bottom of the range but the range in the estimated total infections is only a factor of 2.
    8. Base12 has done stirling work in producing the table but it has also not been replicated by anyone, as far as I know. I think this needs to be done as restricting the pathways for the virus to spread must have had an effect and yet the table appears to indicate that just the opposite happened. This needs explaining, especially the implication that masks (long pushed by Chris) are useless.

    I must say that Chris's recent videos on the subject have been disappointing. I would also like this to be a less worrisome virus and resulting disease but I don't think he's presented convincing evidence of either. Globally, we don't see the herd immunity narrative but do see a lessening of the lethality and this also could do with more research.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 6:44pm

    #44
    centroid

    centroid

    Status: Member

    Joined: Nov 16 2014

    Posts: 84

    4

    centroid said:

    i dont know why we dont just supply everyone  70 and over with daily vitamin d and vitamin c and just open up the economy, but i suppose they might not have the manufacturing capacity/capability to do so (thinking Australia)

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 6:55pm

    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1340

    9

    kvetching

    Sofistek,

    I have read numerous posts from you over the years and am hard pressed to think of one that had anything positive to say about something that Chris has written or said.  It makes me wonder why you are still here.  This doesn't mean you're not allowed to criticize.  A certain amount of criticism (with the resulting debate and discussion) is healthy and productive, facilitates learning, and keeps this site from being too much of an echo chamber.  But quite frankly, all I ever read from you is kvetch, kvetch, kvetch.  I realize it's probably the nature of your personality but it'd be nice to balance the relentless negativity with a little positivity ... perhaps a compliment or some expression of gratitude or appreciation or a contribution other than a criticism of what's been posted.

     

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 7:53pm

    #46
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 829

    3

    TATAGIRI with an i

    The name tatagiri is an Indian surname. People here keep calling tatagiri tatagirl.

    It is Tatagiri with an i.

    It is just a minor point as it is just a screen name .

    Tata is the name of one of if not the wealthiest family in India.  If there is a major business in India Tata is involved. Actually they are a global company. The Tata family is Parsi. Parsis are Zoroastrians who fled Iran (Persia) to escape Muslim persecution. They settled predominantly in Gujerat India

    https://www.tata.com/

    I am not sure what the giri means.

    At any rate just checked on my condition and it is fine so going back on vacation.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 7:58pm

    #47
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5375

    12

    re: Kvetching

    I have read numerous posts from you over the years and am hard pressed to think of one that had anything positive to say about something that Chris has written or said.

    Thanks for noticing.  There's a contingent here who seem to prefer to tear things down.  It's what they do best, or at least it's what they do most often.

    Sofistek finds a nit to pick, maybe takes some time to express how this site has gone downhill or how disappointed he is in my work, and then waits patiently for the usual suspects (Doug, Yoxa, etc) to upvote his kvetching.  These are stalwart members of PP's 'drive by shooter' (DBS) club.

    None of them seem to take the time to produce any useful positive content here.  They are tear-down artists.  They'll put a lot of effort into a negative post but almost never any effort into a positive contribution.  It's 'a thing,' and quite often found left of center for some reason.  I don't know why.  Maybe I'm off base on that, but living near "hippie valley" has exposed me to quite a bit of the DBS tear-down club over the years and I am both allergic to it and quite capable of ignoring it.

    I bet the DBS club would be horrified at the 4-cord wood bin I slapped together today.  Improperly engineered, a lack of appropriate symmetry, not going to survive the first winter, ugly...surely there would be many complaints.   But you know what?  It went up fast and it will last and it will work just fine for a minimum of effort and cost.  I know this because I've built lots and lots of things over the years.

    And while they're busy complaining about that, I'll sneak over a few dozen yards and build a cow run-in shed before I settle down to put another 8-10 hours of work into the next free video that will help educate people about SARS2 and how to interpret a study.

    Naturally, none of that will be the slightest bit appreciated by the DBS crowd.  In fact it may well bother them. For some reason, complainers are unsettled by doers.  It's a cats and dogs thing.  Or dogs and postmen.  Just different ways of approaching life, I suppose.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 8:13pm

    #48

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2190

    6

    age-stratified IFR, NAC

    Sofistek, ao-

    I think Sofistek tends to see the glass as perennially half-empty.  Or perhaps mostly-empty.  Or perhaps he just doesn't have a glass at all and isn't happy about it.  🙂

    Why is Chris less worried?  We now know that COVID-19 is an over-70 disease: 5.4% IFR for the 70+ group, 0.5% for the 50-70 group, and not-worth-mentioning for the 0-49 group.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

    0-19 years: 0.00003
    20-49 years: 0.0002
    50-69 years: 0.005
    70+ years: 0.054

    He also knows that even that mortality rate gets cut in half - maybe more - with vitamin-D!

    And lastly, he probably has his apple-flavored horse paste, which in most cases, stops COVID-19 cold.

    So, in sum, with the treatments he knows about (and probably has on the shelf now), this disease isn't a big scary deal any longer.  I mean, he doesn't want to get it, neither do I, but its pretty clear how to fix the situation if it comes up.

    BTW, I'm still not convinced that NAC as prophylaxis for COVID-19 is worthless.  As a treatment in already-hospitalized patients, it doesn't help.  But the 1998 influenza prophylaxis treatment protocol (600 mg 2x day) worked great as a symptom prevention mechanism - a terrain-builder for older people.  COVID-19 is an older-people disease.  We haven't seen a trial like that yet.

    Older people are very often glutathione deficient - glutathione deficiency is present in virtually every disease state.  Glutathione declines with age in a curve remarkably like the death rate of COVID-19.  NAC 2x day fixes this, similar to vitamin-D supplementation fixes vit-d deficiency.

    And its still also quite effective in preventing influenza symptoms in older people.  Influenza is still a thing too.

    You will pry my NAC from my cold, dead fingers.  🙂

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 9:10pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 767

    2

    No response?

    Chris,

    I've loved a lot of your work and, once hooked on your Covid-19 updates, I watched all of them. I fully realise that opinions can change as more data comes in but many of your recent videos don't seem to  bother with the data as much. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    I notice that you had no comments on the points I raised. Does that mean you don't think any of the points has merit? I so, I'd love to hear why for each point as I really do think they are genuine concerns.

    I have to apologise for perhaps mainly posting questions or criticisms (I'm not sure if this is true but can't find a link to all of my comments). This is simply me. If I have no complaints about some of an article (not just Chris here but anyone anywhere) then I don't say anything but if there appears to be some error or dodgy logic then I'll raise that concern and this can be seen as always whinging but it's not the case. I've appreciated Chris's insights but I just feel that he's now being a bit lax with his analyses and I hope he can take criticism, though his last message suggests that is also waning (he did once thank me for correcting him on NZ's use of face masks).

    Dave, yes, I am a glass half-empty kind of guy but, overall, I like to see things as they are, so tend to avoid the rose coloured glasses. I agree that Covid-19 is becoming less scary but I don't want to catch it at all. It's not a disease of older people though they suffer disproportionately, which is what you probably meant. I'm an older person so I may be more concerned than the younger guys, even though I have a pretty good diet, and have had so for over a decade (before then not so great) so probably won't get it too badly but I don't want to test that theory.

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 9:27pm

    Mark_BC

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 412

    0

    Mark_BC said:

    Through the milk (colostrum)

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 9:49pm

    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1340

    9

    adding to the emphasis on vitamin D and other matters

    I previously posted about the importance of getting your blood serum levels of vitamin D checked as opposed to just taking the RDA or some fixed dosage without knowledge of your unique blood levels.  This is anecdotal but someone whose husband has rheumatoid arthritis told me her husband has his vitamin D blood levels checked regularly and he needs to take 10,000 IU per day to maintain his levels in the optimal range (i.e. above 50 ng./ml.).

    BTW, just ordered some apple flavored Ivermectin, for our horse of course, from valleyvet.com for $2.49 a tube.

    Also, just getting a feeling but I've learned to act on my intuition so we're going to be replenishing supplies of toilet paper, soap, toothpaste, etc.  I'm well stocked but talked to a friend who is heavily into firearms training/teaching and uses a LOT of ammo and he said that ammo is in very short supply across the board.  Also, I'm keeping non-ethanol gasoline supplies and fuel stabilizer topped off.  Larder is full but we notice it's getting harder and harder to find healthy food.  Everything is either loaded with sugar (in its various forms) or unhealthy oils or glyphosate (commercial hummus being the latest "victim") or GM or food sourced from China, Vietnam, etc.

    Thinking of pulling the trigger on top quality night vision as well while it can still be had by civilians.  Never know when you might want to forage for chaga or rose hips at night.;-)

    Too much is happening and too much will be happening and there are too many lay-offs and disenfranchised people for there not to be supply chain interruptions as well as rising civil unrest and crime, particularly as our nation and the world is more morally bankrupt than at any time that I've ever seen in my life.

     

     

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 9:59pm

    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1340

    8

    the value of no response

    I've been dealing with a problematic family member for a number of years now that has been a considerable source of stress in my life and was particularly so to my late mother.  In talking to a very wise, older psychologist, he gave me some good advice which I realize I need to follow.  That advice?

    "Sometimes the best response is no response."

     

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  • Thu, Oct 01, 2020 - 10:57pm

    #53
    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

    2

    Pres. Trump and wife test positive for SARS Cov2

    And the hits just keep on coming.  I hope they have the HCQ and zinc and all other good stuff.

    Anyone else remember the "Tecumseh Curse"?  I have been keeping an eye on this as Pres. Trump is due.  Reagan and W managed to escape it, barely.  Only dead presidents I want right now is on my fiat.  Appears others don't share my sympathy.

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 12:03am

    #54
    yagasjai

    yagasjai

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 18 2009

    Posts: 123

    2

    Virus Mutating?

    It may be wishful thinking but I can't help but wonder if there may be a simpler explanation of why cases are going up but not deaths- if it were a man-made bioweapon, there were reports early on that the "tinkering" wouldn't survive many evolutions and after a certain point it could lose the lethality even if it became more contagious. I've wondered for a while if this principle was behind Trump's comments that this will just "disappear" like a "miracle." I am still concerned about a lag of many weeks behind the spike in cases with a new spike in deaths, but with the complex analysis of X Y Z immunity, I do wonder if a simpler explanation is possible. I am wondering if the genetic sequencing they do is showing anything like that?

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 12:25am

    #55

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2190

    3

    an october surprise

    IFR for COVID-19 in the 70+ group is 5.4%.

    Although that figure it almost certainly higher in the "obese" group, which given Trump's BMI of around 30, he qualifies for.

    This could turn out to be bad - or it could end up showing the country that this disease is something that even old fat Presidents can recover from, with the right treatment.

    Trump could end up being a poster child (at age 74) for said treatment.  He was definitely detected early, and will be treated rapidly, which is a big plus.  And the Zelenko protocol has a high success rate for high risk patients treated early, assuming that's what he'll be using.

    This is definitely an October Surprise.  We have to wait a few weeks to see which direction it will take.

    Wow!

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 1:56am

    Hladini

    Hladini

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    2

    Yep, no soap for me

    VTGothic,  this is very true.  I stopped using soap on a daily  basis years ago, for other reasons, and recently learned the practice has probably helped my biodome.

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 2:16am

    Hladini

    Hladini

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    0

    Polio Epidemic

    The polio epidemic also followed the use/non use of DDT spraying. DDT poisoning apparently mimics polio symptoms.  I Love Dr. Humphries:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZMn7oapJD4

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 2:24am

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 767

    3

    Trump and HCQ

    Yes, Dave, I think Trump could well benefit from the one thing he seemed to get right in his Covid-19 response, an attempt to make HCQ+ a treatment of choice. Hopefully, he's now fully into this very effective treatment. Chris did great work digging out the data on HCQ and pointing out the flaws in poor trials of the treatment.

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 2:36am

    Hladini

    Hladini

    Status: Member

    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    1

    Prep101

    Where's the clip with Gates/Fauci?

    Corbett did a Meet Bill Gates documentary, link below, and I believe Fauci and Gates were college buddies/room mates.

    Meet Bill Gates

     

     

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 2:42am

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    0

    So True Sand_puppy

    It is so hard for me to get outside in the summer, unless I'm near a body of water.  If I have to garden in the Florida summer, I usually do it with the sprinkler on!

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 3:13am

    #61
    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Posts: 239

    4

    Love the New Intro

    Chris and Adam,  I love the new introductory music and format of your videos.  It's much more positive and upbeat, hopeful.

    I also appreciate the sleuthing, pulling together articles written by people trying to push an agenda.  Seeing that tactic in action broadened my understanding of psyop.

    As for F-Face-Fauci, he is a perfect example of what is wrong in this country.  The criminals at the top get the red carpet treatment.  His testimony?  Mindboggling that he used the NY stats to support his recommendations.  True DoubleSpeak.

    It's good to see Chris relaxed again.

    BTW  Chris, you  did a great job on USA.watchdog.com.  It's hard to listen to Greg Hunter, actually sometimes is agonizing, but he has fabulous guests!

    Evil Covid Lies & People Died – Chris Martenson

     

     

     

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 5:14am

    #62

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 828

    3

    Unicorn Poo and FDA Warning Letters

    A credentialed person has posted a list of “things” that have received Warning Letters from the US Government as potentially fraudulent interventions for SarsCov2. Among the suspect vitamins are D3 and Vitamin C and Elderberry.

    This is very dangerous and another criminal enterprise that seems to emanate from our Medical Community. If people are convinced that D3 is similar to Unicorn Poo and stop taking it more blood will be on the hands of the Fauchites. I would love to know who is financially backing the person who put out this travesty.

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s43441-020-00224-1

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 6:28am

    jturbo68

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

    Posts: 122

    3

    1940 vs 1955

    BG = 1955, F = 1940

    Seems unlikely they were college roommates or buddies

     

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 6:40am

    grandefille

    grandefille

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    Posts: 21

    4

    Ivermectin dose

    Grover, it seems like your calculation is based on weight (yours vs. a horse).  Weight isn't the only thing to consider when determining drug dosages. Animal metabolism is variable, even for similar species. (sheep need about half the dose of most drugs vs. goats) I found the following at the mayo clinic website (strongalytes are intestinal parasites, aka worms). Veterinary medicines usually list the concentration of the active drug, either per package or per mililiter.  From that, you can calculate the best dose for a human of your weight.  Note that the recommended human dose is in micrograms, NOT milligrams.  There are 1000 micrograms in a milligram.  Enjoy those "apples"!

    For strongyloidiasis:

    • Adults and teenagers—Dose is based on body weight and must be determined by your doctor. The usual dose is 200 micrograms (mcg) per kilogram (kg) (91 mcg per pound) of body weight as a single dose. Additional doses usually are not needed.
    • https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/ivermectin-oral-route/proper-use/drg-20064397

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 6:42am

    ao

    ao

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    19

    Big Pharma

    Olive Oil Guy,

    Having been in healthcare for over 40 years and interested in ACH (alternative, complementary, holistic) approaches that entire time, I have witnessed many "ambushes" of effective non-pharmaceutical remedies.  The most blatant and the one that really convinced me that there were nefarious parties acting behind the scenes was regarding serratiopeptidase, a proteolytic enzyme with anti-inflammatory benefits but without many of the side effects of most pharmaceutical NSAIDs.  I have used it myself and found it effective and had recommended it to patients.  There were a number of research studies, almost all of which were done overseas, which attested to its effectiveness and safety.  One day, when checking what Wikipedia would say (since I was planning on recommending it to a patient of a somewhat suspicious nature who I was sure would investigate it further on her own), I found the entire Wikipedia entry had been changed.  It stated that there was no evidence that it was effective, that its safety was questionable, yadda, yadda, yadda.  It was a complete, 180 degree turn-around from what previous research had shown.

    They have done this in the past with vitamin E as well, saying that it caused cancer.  How can an essential nutrient cause cancer?  They were performing research using the synthetic form of vitamin E, dl-alpha tocopherol, and using it in isolation.   When the natural form of vitamin E, d-alpha tocopherol is used in conjunction with the other tocopherols and tocotrienols, there is no such problem.  But many physicians who don't read beyond the abstracts or don't keep up with the literature, to this day, still warn against it.

    I've also witnessed similar attacks against vitamin C, vitamin D, vitamin K1 and K2, glucosamine, elderberry extracts, colloidal silver, etc.  ANY substance that provides a cheaper, safer, more natural alternative to a pharmaceutical and begins to gain traction with the public will, sooner or later, be attacked.

    It's very similar to how very few financial advisors will recommend physical gold and silver.  It's also similar to how mainstream education will attack home schooling.  Almost anything which supports independence from the system will be attacked by the system.   Witness the steady increase in policies and regulations, especially from the political left, which work against small, independent, Ma and Pa businesses while government jobs have experienced a steady increase in salaries and benefits relative to the private sector.

    On a very personal professional level, I experienced a lot of "heat" when I treated patients who were told they needed surgery for their carpal tunnel syndrome or torn medial meniscus or disc derangement and I was able to get them pain free and fully function with no surgery.

    It's all about the money.

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 7:35am

    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

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    10

    re: Kvetching

    I very much want Chris to continue doing what he does, but Ive often wondered at his dillemma.

     

    To me the dillemma is that if you give things away for free people will typically value those things as if they are worthless.   I worked for a software company once who made a free speedtest that accidentally ended up being the most used speedtest on the internet at the time.

     

    The complaints we got were unreal.   The disgust with our shitty product...  And the threats...  One guy was mad at us because the pizza he had ordered was taking too long to arrive.

     

    Anyway yesterdays video was an example of Chris just being so damned "on point".  Its not just his analysis of studies to prove one thing or another, its the education you get in how the world works that I find so compelling.   Everyone is so fixated on the next detail, as if the next study that proves HCQ works is gonna change things.   Chris shows you why it isnt going to change things by revealing the decades long pattern of the data not changing things.   

    He helps you to grok that we are truly on our own.  This would be terrifying if it wasn't so interesting and sometimes fun.

     

    Anyway, I hope he continues.

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 8:07am

    Prep101

    Prep101

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    2

    For Fauci/Gates clip, click on link and then click through on audio clip.

    For the clip with Fauci/Gates you have to click on the link I have provided (https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/disease/gates-fauci-above-the-law/)  and then click through on the audio fragment that you see.

    I couldn't get it linked directly in the comment, but this works fine too.

    Corbett did indeed do an extremely informative documentary on Bill Gates, but the link you provided covers only the last part (part four) of the documentary. For the link that shows all four parts I recommend:

    https://www.corbettreport.com/gates/

    A MUST VIEW indeed!

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 8:42am

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    1

    thank you prep101

    Thanks for posting the full documentary.

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 12:40pm

    #69
    taz1999

    taz1999

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    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 47

    1

    mRNA vaccine

    There's a subtlety or technicality about the mRNA process, that I haven't wrapped my head around, where the person is injected with RNA that replicates in the body to cause an immune response.   How is the vaccine RNA method different from catching the wild variety excepting bypassing normal initial immune defenses (by injection; and I generally consider  bad) and maybe a known small initial inoculum.  What would be different about using an inhaler with the known COVID dose????

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 12:44pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 465

    5

    add to this nefariousness...

    Hyperinflation, Fascism and War: How the New World Order May Be Defeated Once More

    More behind the scene expose of how the anglo-american elites are using Covid-19 to blow up the derivatives market / financial system to usher in their new world order.

    For those who care to learn more, Matthew Ehret is an astute and highly credible Canadian writer who posts fabulous essays on multi-generational geopolitics. His work can be found on his two websites: https://canadianpatriot.org/ and https://risingtidefoundation.net/

     

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 12:51pm

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

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    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 126

    10

    Big Pharma, the Swamp and Moral Courage

    I noted that Trump mentioned "Big Pharma" by name in the debate...and he wasn't making a compliment. This is the first time I have ever heard something like that in a Presidential debate...the first time.

    It is indeed all about the money and the power.  Money for power and power for money--what a vicious circle. As has been pointed out here, if someone says it is not about the money, it is definitely about the money.

    I realize we don't "do politics" on this site, and I want to respect that.  But we are not going to end the Fed as Chris so ardently desires, or get rid of corrupt and arrogant "public servants" like Fauci, unless we address and thoroughly punish/defund the culture of corruption in Washington.

    There is only one candidate in this Presidential race who has committed himself to draining the swamp. You know who that is as well as I do. With all his obvious faults, only one person has had the moral courage to take on the swamp.

    Without moral courage, nothing else matters.

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 12:55pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 465

    8

    stock outs and shopping trends

    It is readily evident here in Victoria BC that people are concerned about the uptick trend for Covid-19 and are stocking up once again. This past week I was shocked by the number of empty shelves in a large grocery store.

    Note to those who garden - given how there was such a run on supplies and seeds almost everywhere last Spring, now is a good time to check inventories and buy accordingly so that you will be ready as soon as your climate allows in the New Year. I just returned from the garden centre happy to have been able to get stocked up on key things I needed that were previously hard to come by. Sweet!

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 1:17pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Posts: 459

    1

    agitating prop said:

    Ao,

    When I see a study supported by msm, slamming a vitamin or other natural medicine it helps me. The more they slam the more I figure there is a big pharma agenda and that there is solid evidence to back the vitamin's efficiency.

    They really went to town on glucosamine, vitamin e and vitamin a, as you mention. Perfect. It reminded me to take those vitamins.

    I think msm is just really susceptible to their b.s, because the studies come from "authoritative sources."

    Many big pharma owners should be in jail. They actively harm millions of people. Look at oxycontin and that scandal. What about NSAIDs and fudging info about some serious GI side effects, that effect darned near everybody.

    People go on and on about Bill Gates, who is probably, like msm, merely impressed with credentialed individuals who appear to know what they are talking about. It's a cultural phenomenon, in his case, not a conspiratorial one.

    But the executives with science backgrounds and the PR apparatus and owners of these companies. Lock them up.

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 4:05pm

    Mark_BC

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 30 2010

    Posts: 412

    2

    Mark_BC said:

    And turmeric. It seems to do wonders whenever I have an ache and when I recommended it to my mom who had a jaw problem for months, it went away in a couple days. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not. But apparently it does nothing.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turmeric

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 4:42pm

    #75
    Time2help

    Time2help

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    Joined: Jun 08 2011

    Posts: 2354

    2

    October 18th, 2019

    More athletes claim they contracted COVID-19 at Military World Games in Wuhan (InsideTheGames)

    "More athletes have revealed that they fell ill during the Military World Games in October when the Chinese city of Wuhan hosted the event months before the COVID-19 outbreak.

    Taking place in October, the allegations came two months before the first identification of COVID-19 by China.

    Close to 10,000 competitors competed at the Games from over 100 countries during the nine-day event.

    Speaking to the Mail on Sunday, German volleyball player Jacqueline Brock alleged that she got COVID-19 despite no cases being reported until December.

    She said: "After a few days, some athletes from my team got ill, I got sick in the last two days.

    "I have never felt so sick, either it was a very bad cold or COVID-19, I think it was COVID-19."

    It comes after French pentathlete Elodie Clouvel claimed she and her partner Valentin Belaud contracted the virus at the Games.

    Italian fencer Matteo Tagliarol also said everyone in his apartment in the city fell ill with symptoms "that looked like those of COVID-19"."

    2019 Wuhan Military Games - October 18th-27th, 2019 (Source)

    Event 201, A Global Pandemic Exercise - October 18th, 2019 (Source)

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 5:41pm

    grandefille

    grandefille

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    Posts: 21

    1

    mRNA vaccine produces spike protein, not virus

    Taz, it's my understanding that mRNA vaccines for SARs-CoV2 are designed to produce the spike protein of the virus coat, not an intact virus.  The body produces antibodies against the spike protein, and when the intact virus enters the body, antibodies recognize the protein and neutralize the virus.  At least in theory.  I'm stuck on the question of:  How does production of the spike protein get turned OFF?  Or doesn't it?  Many questions about this brand new vaccine technology, few of which are getting discussed in an intelligent manner.

    Julie

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 6:41pm

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    0

    Negative statements are power statements.

    Just feel the power in your veins!

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 6:59pm

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    1

    Warning Letters

    So if I understand the link (Table 3), FDA has sent out 14 warning letters to those who are promoting Vitamin D3 as a therapy or prophylactic measure for COVID-19.  Would this be admissible and open up a physician to a lawsuit for recommending it to his patient for COVID?

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  • Fri, Oct 02, 2020 - 11:31pm

    nordicjack

    nordicjack

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    Posts: 737

    0

    FDA will be finished within 24 mos.

    They are no one to speak.   They are done in 24 mos.   trust me on this..

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 4:27am

    #80
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Joined: Jun 07 2007

    Posts: 5375

    7

    Re: Ivermectin Dose

    There has been a forum on this topic.

    Hyopthetically, in a TV-based reality surival show where someone gets a rare tropical infection but only has access to a tube of horse Ivermectin 1.87% paste the calculations are as follows:

    For educational purposes, and not as medical advice of course, the calculations are pretty straightforward.

    The horse Ivermectin, apple flavored seems to be the most common, comes as a 1.87% paste.  That works out to 18.7 mg/gram (or 18,700 micrograms/gram)

    The standard dose for humans is between 150 and 200 micrograms (millionths of a gram) per kg.  The calculations are pretty simple.  Here’s the table that results for a variety of ‘patient’ weights and the dosing range for the 1.87% paste.  The last two columns are in grams.

    You have to have the ability to weigh out anywhere from 0.40 grams to 1.07 grams, depending on your body weight and selected dosing level.

    Link to original Forum thread

     

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 5:54am

    Keenan

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    Keenan said:

    sofistek,

    You bring up excellent, scientifically valid observations/points about problematic methods and conclusions in the latest video. I'm glad you posted them, because I was noticing many of the same issues while viewing the video myself. I was looking forward to Chris addressing them. Chris's handwaving dismissive emotionally defensive response, in which he completely evaded every single valid point and wrote a long winded whine about being picked on by an apparent conspiracy of "left-of-center" types who must have some inexplicable need to "tear down" and "nit pick", floored me, because I had heard Doctor Martenson describe himself on multiple occasions as someone who is committed to the scientific method and objective truth with no political agenda, just an agenda to find the truth and openness to changing his opinions whenever new data disproves previous conclusions.

    It's not even about Chris agreeing with your questions/observations. I would be fine with Chris disagreeing with all of your points, as long as he gave reasons for disagreeing. Instead, NOTHING. 2 days later, still nothing. Just that one initial "How dare you peer review and critique the Great Chris Martenson! Shame on you, you're probably just a liberal!" response.

    A good scientist genuinely interested in finding the truth and improving their hypotheses and learning would welcome the opportunity for peer review/critique and would be grateful for people helping to spot possible errors and problems with their work.

    Anyway, now that I spoke up in your defense, I assume I will now be added to the list of conspirators already named - "the usual suspects...members of PP's 'drive by shooter' (DBS) club...the complainers not the doers" yada yada yada yada yada.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 6:08am

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Joined: Dec 28 2011

    Posts: 239

    4

    Right Conclusion, Wrong Reason

    Prop, I would say you've got the right conclusions for the wrong reasons.  In case you  didn't get the memo, Big Pharma owns the MSM, along with our representatives in the legislative branch, along with the white house in the executive branch, and along with the justices in the judicial branch of our government.

    Please read this US Supreme Court Case:  https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-152.pdf

    Please read the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986: https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-congress/house-bill/5546

    And think about Operation Wharp Speed.  Don't listen to what Trump says, watch what he does.  He appointed a Big Pharma hack to oversee Operation Wharp Speed.

    We're living through the policies of the Clinton Administration right now:  Deregulated FCC taking the most diverse media system in the world and condensing it down to a mega-monopoly; repeal of Glass-Steagall creating the too bit to fail banks all gambling with depositor money; and of course NAFTA with no more manufacturing jobs for Americans, and to the point at hand, under the Clinton administration advertising medicine directly to the public became law.

    Big Pharma has Big Bucks.  Have you watched TV lately?  Seen all those drug commercials?  Those same drug companies manufacture vaccines.  Do you  think the MSM could permit truthful reporting/break a story on vaccines or other Big Pharma products without jeopardizing their funding?

    As for Billy G, I think your naive.  Corbett does a good job researching Bill Gates, even if you're cynical, watch it, it's an eye opener.  He is very influential and uses his philanthropy to pursue his personal goals, and all of  his "philanthropy" is tied to his investments.

    When ever you doubt a story or narrative, go do  your own research but use Duckduckgo as your search engine,  not Google.  You'll have a hard time finding any negative information about Billy G on Google.

    I'm with you on the conclusion.  Almost anything coming out of MSM, we can assume the opposite.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 6:13am

    DennisC

    DennisC

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    2

    Breakfast of Champions

    Perhaps he likes a can of surströmming with a side of fermented cabbage, washed down with homemade kombucha.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 6:14am

    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Posts: 239

    2

    Tumeric Rocks

    Hello Mark_BC, Tumeric is one of those wonder herbs.  We are growing a lot of it here and it's one of those plants that just keeps giving.   It's been linked to reducing dementia in the elderly.  Indians have a low rate  of alzheimers/dementia and they eat a massive amount of tumeric.  Black pepper works as a potentiate with tumeric.

    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/top-10-evidence-based-health-benefits-of-turmeric#TOC_TITLE_HDR_5

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 6:19am

    DennisC

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    0

    Ditto on that

    Personally, I've found turmeric (a patented version with soy lecithin) helpful.  Another interesting supplement to research, IMO, is boswellia serrata.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 6:21am

    #86
    Curt504

    Curt504

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    5

    Curt504 said:

    Great vid Chris,  BTW if you want to do any medical searching forget google,  I now use duckduckgo.com it doesn't filter out vax and other topics like;  flu shot increases covid19 reactivity.  OMG!  The supression never ends!!

    Influenza Vaccine: Military Study Shows 36% Higher Odds Of Coronavirus, 2017-2018

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 6:47am

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Posts: 5375

    7

    Forget Google Search

    Great vid Chris,  BTW if you want to do any medical searching forget google,  I now use duckduckgo.com it doesn't filter out vax and other topics like;  flu shot increases covid19 reactivity.  OMG!  The supression never ends!!

    I totally agree.  Just this morning I was trying to use google search to resolve an issue about lymph nodes and Covid.  All I got was page after page of redirects to various cancer treatment centers.

    Not a single search result for what I was after.  Well at least not on the first 5 pages, after which I gave up.

    Went to Duckduckgo.com and - voila! - page after page of the results I was looking for.

    Maybe it's just me, but I noticed a pronounced loss of Goggle utility about 2-3 weeks ago...now it's shot through with paid garbage and political nudging masquerading as legit search results.

    Oh well - same old story - great company and technology suffers 'death by a thousand well-meaning committees.'  Youtube mostly there.  Twitter well on the way.  Google search now my second choice...

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 6:54am

    #88
    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Posts: 5375

    3

    Re Keenan

    Keenan - you missed the point entirely.  I all you do is show up and kvetch I will tune you out.

    If you bitch and moan every single time and are unrelentingly negative, even if you do manage to have a good point now and then, it will go unnoticed.

    It's as true on line as it is in real life.

    I trust that's an easy concept to appreciate.

     

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 8:02am

    Prep101

    Prep101

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    Posts: 41

    2

    Prep101 said:

    Hi Chris,

    If you are looking for alternatives for Google, you might enjoy the podcast:

    "So You've Decided To Boycott Google...":
    https://www.corbettreport.com/so-youve-decided-to-boycott-google/
    (Good information. Also some useful information in the comment-section)

    And more recent:

    "How to Save the Library":
    https://www.corbettreport.com/how-to-save-the-library-questions-for-corbett-069/

    There are a lot of alternatives for Google.

    The greater point however, is that if you want to use (and build) greater DIGITAL RESILIENCY, you have learn about and use decentralized alternatives. This way, you will decrease your chance in being censored.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 8:34am

    #90
    Prep101

    Prep101

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 14 2020

    Posts: 41

    3

    Digital Resiliency

    Furthermore, if you want to make sure you are not dependent on YouTube with regard to censorship, you can also upload your video's on:
    - BitChute
    - The Internet Archive
    - LBRY
    - Minds.com

    You don't have to abandon YouTube (yet) - it's more an and/and proposition than an or/or proposition - but it is advisable to make sure you are independent from them. Because what are you going to do if YouTube decides to take down your content? This is currently happening for all kinds of alternative media content creators (Dan Dicks of PressForTruth for example).

    Kind regards!

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 8:54am

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    0

    stevedaly said:

    Qwant is an alternative.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 9:07am

    Prep101

    Prep101

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    Posts: 41

    2

    Prep101 said:

    How does production of the spike protein get turned OFF?  Or doesn't it?

    Good question. I saw a good lecture on Medcram.com on how a cell functions, the difference between DNA and RNA and how Sars-CoV-II operates including the spike protein:
    https://www.medcram.com/courses/take/coronavirus-outbreak-symptoms-treatment/lessons/10887384-update-32-important-data-from-south-korea-can-zinc-help-prevent-covid-19

    It is free, but you have to make an account first so you can login. In any case, I cannot see how the spike protein gets turned off. Therefore, I am extremely wary of a vaccine.

    An mRNA is also RNA, as far as I see, which means if you ingest this you are tampering with your genetic code. But I'm open for information to the contrary, at least if this information shows how it EXACTLY works.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 10:52am

    Keenan

    Keenan

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    Keenan said:

    User blocked.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 1:32pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Joined: May 28 2009

    Posts: 459

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    Reply to Hladini

    I forgot about all the advertising by big pharma on television. I don't have cable tv. I tend to think of it more in terms of letter agencies, with the civilian agencies having disproportionate control or influence over what Americans call liberal television msm and DIA or defense intelligence agency having disproportionate influence over Fox media and some alt right social media. It appears to be divided roughly neo-liberal and neo-conservative.

    But of course, big pharma is slowly but surely becoming like another clandestine arm of government.

    As far as Bill Gates goes, I don't see him as an evil eugenicist, as some people do. He is simply one of the most powerful corporatists, with a mercenary agenda, out there. He's plenty creepy, for sure -- but don't feel he is 'evil.' That's binary black and white thinking that you hear a lot of during times of extreme social stress. And true, some people are evil, if you call indifference to the suffering of their fellow man, 'evil.' In that case we can and should extend it to animals who have a capacity for suffering and feeling pain and most of us ignore that, or we are indifferent to it. So that makes most people evil, I guess.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 2:45pm

    #95

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 767

    2

    No

    Chris wrote:

    Sofistek finds a nit to pick, maybe takes some time to express how this site has gone downhill or how disappointed he is in my work, and then waits patiently for the usual suspects (Doug, Yoxa, etc) to upvote his kvetching

    This is just plain wrong and I'm sure you must have written this without really considering your reply. I most definitely do not wait for upvoting of my comments. And when you use the phrase "nit pick", you offer no evidence why they are nit picks and not genuine criticisms. Considering that herd study, you didn't address any of my points and, thinking about it again, I'm pretty sure that it's a piece of "research" that can be discarded as unsound, for the reasons I already mentioned (it reminds me a little of the discredited 7 Countries report by Ancel Keys in a, sadly successful, attempt to show that saturated fats cause heart disease, which discarded all data that didn't match his hypothesis).

    I'm looking forward to viewing your latest video. I'd really like to be less worried about it, not just for myself but for everyone who is unlikely to follow your advice about how to strengthen their bodily defences.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 3:15pm

    Mots

    Mots

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    Sofistek's "NO"

    Sofistek
    I am trying real hard to understand you.

    You refer to CM's analysis as a:
    piece of "research" that can be discarded as unsound, ... reminds me... of the discredited 7 Countries report by Ancel Keys in a, sadly successful, attempt to show that saturated fats cause heart disease, which discarded all data that didn't match his hypothesis..."

    I have studied your exemplified topic extensively over the years and have argued with professional researchers on what you dismiss as "discredited."  I really think that you are not looking at things objectively.  You need to discard political and unscientific "arguments" or thoughts in your analyses.  Your dismissal (and arguments thereof) of saturated fats as a cause of heart disease is a good example.  You sound like the mocking bird main stream (bought) media.  I really have a hard time following your logic, and your quasi-focused, broadly phrased blanket dismissal of general notions in a list  "give me a point by point reason!" in post 43 seems like thoughtless self aggrandizing nonsense.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 3:37pm

    #97
    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Sofistek

    Hi Sofistek,

    I can't understand your last post. I don't mean that I disagree with it, I mean that the info about the dietary fat causing heart attacks seems to contradict itself, the way it has been expressed. Do you think you could rewrite it so it's more clear? Thanks!

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 5:11pm

    Susan7

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    How to weigh out a dose of ivermectin

    I have some ivermectin I bought for my horse, of course. Got it way back in February. The dosing table is really helpful but my kitchen scale only records down to one gram. This would be a large dose for my horse, of course. Does anyone have a suggestion about how to get an accurate dose? I’m thinking that if I weigh out one gram I can divide that in half to get a roughly accurate dose. I was just going to try Grover’s 1/6th tube but that seems like a lot.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 5:35pm

    Boomer41

    Status: Bronze Member

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    Weighing Ivermectin

    You can buy a very inexpensive scale ($20) on Amazon. Also useful for weighing powder when reloading ammo.

    MAXUS Dante Milligram Scale. 50g x 0.001g . Includes 20g Calibration Weight.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 6:04pm

    Susan7

    Susan7

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    Susan7 said:

    Thanks! I didn’t think of reloaders, only drug dealers. Perfect solution.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 6:13pm

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2442

    8

    Measuring Oral Paste Ivermectin for Horses

    The horse paste ivermectin doesn't come in a tube, but in a syringe with demarkations on the side based on total body weight of the animal.  This allows a person to inject into the horse's mouth the correct amount of paste based on its weight, by depressing the plunger to the line matching the horses weight.    Horses are dosed at .2 mg / Kg of body weight, the same dose recommended for humans.

    The lines on the syringe are in 250 lb increments.  It is very easy to deliver a weight-based dose with this system to any animal, large or small, furry or hairless, no math required.

     

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 6:57pm

    sofistek

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    3

    Fat and Keys

    agitating prop,

    It's a little off topic but the herd immunity study reminded me of the study authored by Ancel Keys (I think it was in the 60s) to "prove" his hypothesis that dietary fat (in particular saturated fat) was the primary cause of heart problems. The study is referred to as The Seven Countries Study and it seemed to convince health authorities, at the time. The problem is that the study was an amalgam of research that collected dietary data from many more than seven countries but only the countries which appeared to fit the hypothesis was used. If he'd used all of the data, he'd have found no correlation (or an insignificant correlation) between fat and heart disease. Consequently, diets have been long affected by this bad study though the notion that saturated fat is good for you and that sugar (particularly free fructose) is the main culprit of many afflictions that we have with western diets.

    The herd immunity study used a "selected" 12 countries and a later edition removed one of those (possibly because Ethiopia wasn't fitting the hypothesis, but we don't know the reason for the exclusion). So, the study "selected" 11 countries but didn't list the selection criteria. Why didn't it use 200 countries? More work perhaps but also less likely to appear to support the hypothesis.

    There is a difference between the two studies though, the Ancel Keys' study was peer reviewed but the herd immunity study hasn't yet been peer reviewed. Peer review, of course, does not guarantee the research is sound but it's a prerequisite for serious science. Chris has, in the past, mentioned when some research has not yet been peer reviewed, advising caution but I don't think he did that on this occasion. Perhaps it was an oversight but he hasn't commented on this or any other points I made. That's his prerogative but it does make be wonder why.

    Mots,

    I really do try to be objective. I see no value in lying to myself about the real situation. I challenge analyses at both ends of the spectrum. For example, at one extreme end, I've challenge environmental doomers about what they are claiming about the science, just as I've challenged deniers about their flawed use of data. I also try to avoid insults and baseless accusations as I've never found them to be persuasive.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 7:41pm

    2retired

    2retired

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    2retired said:

    "Peer review" is often used as a form endorsement serious science, and theoretically it is, or should be. Unfortunately its is often thoroughly corrupted by an old boys network, grant chasing & back scratching. The buying off of the Lancet editors for the publishing of the fraudulent surgisphere study should remove any doubts.

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  • Sat, Oct 03, 2020 - 9:50pm

    sofistek

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    1

    Peer review

    I don't disagree. There has been plenty of rubbish published which is supposedly peer reviewed. But peer review is a necessary, though not sufficient, part of the publication process for good science. Pre-prints are interesting but should be treated with caution.

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 8:09am

    tbp

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    Casedemics; NAC; Critical theory; Google usefulness; Gates evil; Cholesterol/Saturated fats scam

    @TreePlanter
    Here in the Netherlands, there is a clear second wave coming and really causing damage to people - we are nowhere near full immunity.

    As you can see in the graph above, there are still much fewer admissions to hospitals compared with April 2020. However, it is more than 10x more admissions compared with July...

    We have a doubling every second week right now.

    And I concur the observations above, that risk zone people (old/ill/fat/weak/compromised) are much more cautious now than in January-February 2020. Therefore the rise is slower.

    I am not in a risk zone but nevertheless, I try my very best to improve my immune system and to get as small inoculum as possible. I am still scared of the potential long-term consequences of this virus. Anecdotically, half of the people I know who had the virus (4 out of 8) still have health problems 6 months later...

    Isn't it just another casedemic?:

    I’m doing all the preps I’ve learned on PP. And appreciate Chris having the humility to update the list and accept new findings. (NAC is now in the “not helpful” category).

    I think Chris may have been a bit too fast in dismissing NAC. It remains good as an effective short-term treatment for acute respiratory infections in general, as it thins mucus in your bronchial tubes helping to flush down any respiratory pathogen before it can reach the lungs, and it's the main precursor to glutathione production (if glutathione depletion happens, you're pretty much screwed). Higher glutathione can be helpful in increasing antioxidant ability, and in relaxing, as it has recently been discovered that glutathione may in fact actually also act as a neurotransmitter that binds to newly discovered glutathione receptors which have an inhibitory effect comparable to glycine and magnesium (an NDMA glutamate receptor antagonist, like ketamine). If that tells you little, think of these as having downer/inhibitory effects comparable to GABAergics like ethanol and benzodiazepines but weaker and different. These can be useful to relax and counter stress, as chronic stress (chronically elevated cortisol) will shut down your immune system more effectively than anything else (because you don't need an immune system when you need to fight or flee the danger).

    And what @davefairtex said:

    BTW, I'm still not convinced that NAC as prophylaxis for COVID-19 is worthless. As a treatment in already-hospitalized patients, it doesn't help. But the 1998 influenza prophylaxis treatment protocol (600 mg 2x day) worked great as a symptom prevention mechanism - a terrain-builder for older people. COVID-19 is an older-people disease. We haven't seen a trial like that yet.

    Older people are very often glutathione deficient - glutathione deficiency is present in virtually every disease state. Glutathione declines with age in a curve remarkably like the death rate of COVID-19. NAC 2x day fixes this, similar to vitamin-D supplementation fixes vit-d deficiency.

    And its still also quite effective in preventing influenza symptoms in older people. Influenza is still a thing too.

    You will pry my NAC from my cold, dead fingers. 🙂

    Yep, the older you are, generally the lower your glutathione levels, as you tend to need more to counter toxicity insults (such as vaccines and other harmful medical interventions), you may have lower nutrient absorbability (i.e. you're more likely to have a damaged gut), and are less able to produce glutathione. Environmental toxicity keeps increasing too; it's not the same being 80 today as it was even a few decades ago.

    @Chris Martenson
    None of them seem to take the time to produce any useful positive content here. They are tear-down artists. They'll put a lot of effort into a negative post but almost never any effort into a positive contribution. It's 'a thing,' and quite often found left of center for some reason. I don't know why. Maybe I'm off base on that, but living near "hippie valley" has exposed me to quite a bit of the DBS tear-down club over the years and I am both allergic to it and quite capable of ignoring it.

    Often that's a result of exposure to "critical theory" (Frankfurt school neomarxism), especially "postmodern". One has been programmed to unconsciously feel good by tearing things (intellectual and physical) down upon perceiving any flaws. It's ultimately another way to get big dopamine/pleasure kicks (when what we really want is serotonin/happiness build-up). I criticize a lot too, but to build up, not to tear down what has positive stable foundations. The MSM believers (not referring to Sofistek, but a few others like Doug and mjtrac) that we refer to as NPCs spend most of their time doing this both in their minds and (when called by the cultural engineers) physically. To them the flaws don't even need to be real/verified, they just need a perceived "authoritative" source to tell them (i.e. they let powerful corporations do their thinking for them).

    Maybe it's just me, but I noticed a pronounced loss of Goggle utility about 2-3 weeks ago...now it's shot through with paid garbage and political nudging masquerading as legit search results.

    Oh well - same old story - great company and technology suffers 'death by a thousand well-meaning committees.' Youtube mostly there. Twitter well on the way. Google search now my second choice...

    The loss in usefulness started especially 4 years ago (around early/mid-2016 as Trump was taking over the Republican Party). Last 2-3 weeks and next few weeks are going to be the epitome of their blatant election interference.

    Most of those people are not well-meaning though (though they love to hold up the premise that they are, and that their opponents are the evil ones).

    @Keenan
    It's not even about Chris agreeing with your questions/observations. I would be fine with Chris disagreeing with all of your points, as long as he gave reasons for disagreeing. Instead, NOTHING. 2 days later, still nothing. Just that one initial "How dare you peer review and critique the Great Chris Martenson! Shame on you, you're probably just a liberal!" response.

    Defensive much? That's not what he said, that's just an interpretation you're choosing to go with (because you're buying into much/some of the MSM narrative). You wanna hide in your basement and avoid vitamin D, the effective cures, and life, you can do so. But the virus threat has already largely ended. The threat that remains clearly has nothing to do with the virus itself.

    @Prep101
    An mRNA is also RNA, as far as I see, which means if you ingest this you are tampering with your genetic code. But I'm open for information to the contrary, at least if this information shows how it EXACTLY works.

    You'd be tampering with your genetic code, but (in the case of a[n unprecedented] pure vaccine product) in a way similar to how the virus would/will. The idea is that the (harmless version of the) Spike protein is neutralized and shedded by antibodies, but how long would the mRNA last, the same as the virus' mRNA? But an even bigger question is, what guarantees if any do we have that they won't lace the vaccines with aluminum, mercury, and dozens of other powerful toxins worse than the attenuated pathogen/Spike-coding mRNA?

    @agitating prop
    As far as Bill Gates goes, I don't see him as an evil eugenicist, as some people do. He is simply one of the most powerful corporatists, with a mercenary agenda, out there. He's plenty creepy, for sure -- but don't feel he is 'evil.' That's binary black and white thinking that you hear a lot of during times of extreme social stress. And true, some people are evil, if you call indifference to the suffering of their fellow man, 'evil.' In that case we can and should extend it to animals who have a capacity for suffering and feeling pain and most of us ignore that, or we are indifferent to it. So that makes most people evil, I guess.

    You have a very dysfunctional "evil detector" then (guess his obviously fake smiles are enough for you). Gates doesn't kill and maim millions of humans to survive or be healthy. Evil is not just indifference to others' suffering, evil is especially evil when you're the one inducing the suffering.

    @Mots
    Your dismissal (and arguments thereof) of saturated fats as a cause of heart disease is a good example.

    He's right about that, as you will understand if you watch this great video:

    EDIT: My bad, it's not the one above (though it's a great explanation of how fake science is conducted). It's his Fat Head documentary where he exposes Ancel Keys and the low-fat theory/fraud that (in part) led to the epidemic of obesity, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease:

    Saturated fats and cholesterol are required for good health, which is why they want us to avoid it, it's really as simple as that. Otherwise Ancel Keys' fraud would've been corrected by now. It's just one more example of fraudulent selective "science" (and a very obvious one at that).

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 9:03am

    2retired

    2retired

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    2retired said:

    An interesting wrinkle is the military study showing 36% increase in odds of coming down with covid 19 if you have been taking the flu vaccine. It is consistent with the (unpopular and now a few years old) 'ferret study' that show increase severity of flu with new strain exposure, if there was a history of previous flu vaccine exposure. It will be interesting how this is buried by the public health crowd who have given us such good advice.

    Influenza Vaccine: Military Study Shows 36% Higher Odds Of Coronavirus, 2017-2018

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 9:44am

    Prep101

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    Prep101 said:

    You might find the following link interesting, in which the question is discussed if there is a correlation between Covid-19 and a flu vaccine:

    https://www.corbettreport.com/is-there-a-flu-shot-covid-link-questions-for-corbett-068/

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 11:26am

    tbp

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    Imagine if aspirins came with aluminum and mercury and bypassed 1st-pass metabolism

    Of course, the correlation is not really between "injected attenuated flu pathogen" and Covid severity, it's between "injected heavy metals and dozens of other toxins" and Covid severity.

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 12:11pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    tbp and Gates killing Millions.

    You have a very dysfunctional "evil detector" then (guess his obviously fake smiles are enough for you). Gates doesn't kill and maim millions of humans to survive or be healthy. Evil is not just indifference to others' suffering, evil is especially evil when you're the one inducing the suffering. TBP

    Saying Gates isn't evil, is not the same as saying he's a good guy. He's mercenary but not Hell bent on killing millions of people. That's witch hunt mentality, which doesn't serve those trying to "root out evil," very well.

    It also deflects from greater problems regarding oligarchy in an age of automation where anti-trust laws regarding mergers and acquistions are not enforced because these companies are not technically monopolies.

    Power is concentrated in too few hands and those hands are usually ruthless competitors who handily break  laws they aren't being enforced. Gates is an oligarchic corporatist who has zero medical or science credentials.

    When Gates talks about reducing populations with vaccines in various speeches, you have to run the entire talk.

    He goes on to describe how women have fewer children if the children they do have live to maturity. Having many kids is often an insurance policy against high infant mortality rates.

     

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 12:28pm

    taz1999

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    produces spike protein, not virus

    Thanks for a bit of clarification.  And you brought up my next issue which was how does the body know when to turn off replication.  If the body is replicating and reacting to spike protein,  how does that not spin out of control.....

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 12:31pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    aluminum and mercury.

    Aluminum is the most common mineral in the crust of the earth. Certain teas have relatively high concentrations. That includes some herbal teas. People who are afraid of vaccines, due to aluminum should also be aware of tea and anti-perspirants.

    https://ratetea.com/topic/aluminum-in-tea/108/

    As far as mercury in vaccines go, who knows if it's harmful? There are a lot of potential causes of autism. Bombarding a young child's immune system with a 3 in 1 vaccine seems the more likely culprit to me. I would never expose my child to that.

     

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 1:17pm

    2retired

    2retired

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    2retired said:

    The childhood vaccines have been so successful that people no longer remember the scourge that they were, and could be again. The tragedy as I see it is that the 'flu' vaccine has debased the shine on those early vaccines by association, and by overreach of 'health' bureaucrats seeking to expand their footprint with the more marginally beneficial (flu) vaccines.

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 1:59pm

    Prep101

    Prep101

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    Watch these 2 documentaries if you have doubts about Bill Gates and eugenics

    agitating prop,

    Please watch the entire documentary about Bill Gates:
    https://www.corbettreport.com/gates/

    Then, if you really want to drive home the point about eugenics and oligarchs such as Bill Gates, watch:
    https://www.corbettreport.com/bigoil/

    It really picks up steam in the "why"-part.

    It also has an hyperlinked transcript (for if you would like to check all facts and sources), and this says a 1000 times more than anyone's  opinion.

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 2:12pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Joined: May 28 2009

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    Sofistek

    So, you're referring to forcing the data to conform to preconceived conclusions of the study?. From my own reading and experience, it seems that fat plays a role in vascular disease but it's sugar that causes initial inflammation and the scarring from inflammation is what the fats adhere to. Also, if exercise isn't factored into the equation, that's a problem. Emotional stress probably plays a role in inflammation too.

    As far as peer review goes, this is totally problematic and has an effect on all forms of media. If the most reputable science journals can't be trusted, then who can be? I believe the Lancet refuted its original, article on hydrochloroquine, but that doesn't do much good after the bad science has hit the press and is now being followed by governments and other institutions.

    People truly don't know what or who to believe anymore, on any level about any issue that is controversial in the slightest.

    I look for peer reviewed Swedish articles, generally. Not as much of a conflict,

     

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 2:20pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Prep 101

    The Corbett report is getting a lot of play as far as eugenics goes, but if you go to the source video where Gates mentions specifically something about vaccines work to drop world population, you will find something very different. Here is a clip of a video that describes what he thinks about vaccines and generally better health.

     

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 2:32pm

    Susan7

    Susan7

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    Susan7 said:

    Thank you for this excellent information. I’ve never even looked inside the box and just assumed it was a squeezable tube. This simplifies things immensely.

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 2:34pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Forget Gates and look at Raytheon--if you want an evil fix.

     

     

    If you are looking for monsters, best look for people who are actively seeking to blow up people of all ages, children included to enrich themselves. There are no ambiguities here. Look towards Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and other defense contracters.

    From the New York Times.

    "But as the situation in Yemen worsened, at least one firm, Raytheon Company, did more than wait for decisions by American officials. It went to great lengths to influence them, even after members of Congress tried to upend sales to Saudi Arabia on humanitarian grounds.

    Raytheon, a major supplier of weapons to the Saudis, including some implicated by human rights groups in the deaths of Yemeni civilians, has long viewed the kingdom as one of its most important foreign customers.

    After the Yemen war began in 2015 and the Obama administration made a hasty decision to back the Saudis, Raytheon booked more than $3 billion in new bomb sales, according to an analysis of available U.S. government records."

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 4:16pm

    BillV

    BillV

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    aluminum and mercury

    Agit,

    I appreciate your generally reasonable perspective on things and helping to push back against the endless stream of hyperbolic and paranoid conspiracy mongering that so many people thoughtlessly copy and paste from social media memes without ever bothering to fact check or verify. The debunked "Bill Gates is evil and wants to wipe out billions of people" memes being the most proliferous, despite the fact that it takes like 2 seconds to look up the misconstrued/out-of-context quotes that were utilized to manufacture the deceptive memes. But like a zombie, no matter how many times they are debunked and dissembled, these bogus memes keep getting resurrected and recycled because conspiracy mongers and gullible people won't let them rest in peace.
    James Corbett? Wowzers! Where to start. Hard to believe anybody who still to this day claims there is no increase in global average temperatures despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary smacking us in the face daily, still has any followers. His idiotic "everything is a false flag or a hoax by the NWO" re-interpretations of everything that happens anywhere on the planet is so utterly predictable and repetitive, it's boring. You would think the New World Order would've eliminated this widely-known bearer of all their secrets, but no, for some reason they see fit to let him continue.

    Just one thing I wanted to point out about aluminum and mercury.  You said:

    Aluminum is the most common mineral in the crust of the earth. Certain teas have relatively high concentrations. That includes some herbal teas. People who are afraid of vaccines, due to aluminum should also be aware of tea and anti-perspirants...As far as mercury in vaccines go, who knows if it's harmful?

    Keep in mind that exposure to a substance contacting the skin or digestive system is not the same as injecting that substance into the blood. The toxicity level thresholds can be very different between the former and the latter. Many substances can be safely metabolized by the kidneys and liver via 1st pass metabolism if ingested, while being extremely toxic in the blood when bypassing 1st-pass metabolism. The consensus is that the amounts of aluminum and mercury in vaccines is at a low enough level to be safe.  Exposure to high levels of mercury may result in damage to brain, kidneys, and developing fetus. The scientific consensus is that thiomersal (mercury-based preservative) in vaccines has no such effects. Autism does not match the clinical indications of mercury poisoning. Like mercury, aluminum at high enough levels becomes toxic.

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 4:17pm

    sofistek

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    Cherry picking

    Well, not so much forcing the data to fit the hypothesis but only using data which does fit the hypothesis. We all know that if some data don't fit the hypothesis then either the hypothesis is wrong or the data are wrong. Regarding sugar, I avoid added sugar whenever I can, that includes fruit juice and fruit smoothies where the fructose has been separated from its fibre.

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 4:24pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

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    Chris not so worried

    Chris's latest video does a good job of explaining why he's not so worried by the virus any more. However (you knew that was coming, eh?) a concern is contained within his video but not highlighted. He shows that Ivermectin is not even being trialled in the US. So, whilst there are effective treatments, it's not clear to me that those treatments are available generally (and especially not generally globally). If the treatments are not likely to be used, then that should still be a concern, shouldn't it? In addition, Chris's regimen of various supplements to boost his immune system are unlikely to be used or affordable to many (maybe to most) so this virus and the resulting disease will continue to be a worry to me.

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 4:47pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Thanks BillV

    Thanks for that info, BillV. The last time I posted anything about aluminum it was on a forum where some think that the government is trying to kill them by somehow mixing aluminum with jet fuel (or maybe within separate tanks on commercial jets?) or something completely ludicrous like that.

    Their 'proof' was that high concentrations of aluminum were found in the soil where chemtrails had been spotted. Corbett is probably leveraging profit off the chemtrail conspiracy. There's money in extending legitimate conspiracies into the stratosphere of the imagination.

    It's not as if we are living in an age where there's limited access to unambiguous data about mineral composition of soil.

    If you offer an alternative prosaic explanation then you are somehow a victim of brainwashing by msm and need to be 'red pilled.' This line of thinking is equally as dangerous as anything mainstream media puts out. The only difference is anchor people are generally sharper dressers and don't vlog from their bedrooms...until recently!

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 7:41pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 829

    11

    Bill Gates Swell Guy

    The asshole is a technology thief who is now in control of the world's health and agriculture. Not because he is an expert , but because he is mega rich.

    https://usrtk.org/gmo/what-bill-gates-isnt-saying-about-gmos/

    https://theecologist.org/2020/aug/14/gates-failing-green-revolution-africa

    Anti-GMO activists in Africa accuse Monsanto, Gates Foundation of bioterrorism

    Bill Gates dirty tricks in Burkina Faso and Nigeria uncovered – Sussy Vozniak

    FTR. Making a personal attack on James Corbett is an ad hom . It carries no weight in any context. Dismissing his work w/o addressing the facts is a logical fallacy.

    It is almost impossible to keep up with all the ways Gates is acquiring global control. Food and health are keys. I am looking into what he is doing with water.

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  • Sun, Oct 04, 2020 - 7:46pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 829

    2

    Gates Media Control

    Press in His Pocket: Bill Gates Buys Media to Control the Messaging: Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 8:04am

    BillV

    BillV

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    Posts: 27

    0

    Why does that justify circulating provably false accusations about Bill Gates?

    Mohammed,

    Your comment is exactly what I was talking about. You make Gates into some larger than life evil Boogeyman to scare children, based on irrational logic and paranoid conspiracy mongering. Your very first line includes a silly hyperbolic misrepresentation:

    [Bill Gates] is now in control of the world's health and agriculture.

    No, Bill Gates is not in control of the world's health and agriculture. No one person is in control, and Gates is not the most wealthy person in the world. The links you provided certainly don't prove your ridiculous hyperbolic claim. I agree that Gates is wrong to support GMO food crops because I believe the risks outweigh the benefits. Many well-meaning people support GMO food crops because of potential benefits for increasing food production and alleged reduction in reliance on pesticides, but that does not make them evil or all-powerful. Perhaps misguided.

    The second link you posted to the article "Bill Gates dirty tricks in Burkina Faso and Nigeria uncovered," is so full of off-the-rails paranoid conspiracy mongering, it completely discredits that site. These are not serious journalists. No, there has never been a secret plot by Bill Gates to sterilize people. The claim that Gate's support for the genetically modified mosquitos being released that contain genes that block the ability of the malaria-carrying species of mosquitos to reproduce in the wild is a secret plot to sterilize humans is pure paranoia. The idiotic conspiracy theory is not even remotely scientifically possible, because the modified mosquitos are male, which don't bite humans. Only female mosquitos bite. 400,000 people in West Africa die of malaria every year and almost every single person in West Africa has fought multiple bouts of malaria, which is a horrible disease. Massive amounts of pesticides have been used to attempt to kill these mosquitos with very limited success but with a high cost to the environment and hazards to humans. If this project is successful, it can save hundreds of thousands of lives and help millions more avoid having to suffer through malaria sickness multiple times, while ending the use of expensive and hazardous anti-mosquito pesticides. I am in favor of this project, as I believe the benefits far outweigh the potential risks.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 11:06am

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    Joined: Apr 23 2020

    Posts: 144

    6

    Bill, we appreciate all your personal opinions

    Welcome to Peak Prosperity.  Glad we have a topic that interests you enough to join our comments.  What would make your opinions more memorable would be to find a supporting article somewhere to bring to us.  That's what Mohammed does so well. Here's an article about the Gates Foundation trial in front of the Supreme Court in India over misrepresenting vaccines:

     

    https://healthimpactnews.com/2014/bill-melinda-gates-foundation-vaccine-empire-on-trial-in-india/

    Uh-Oh.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 12:11pm

    BillV

    BillV

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    1

    Hi Steve

    It appears you missed my point entirely. You might try re-reading my comment, while putting aside your biases and agendas. As I explained, Mohammed made some hyperbolic assertions that he did not support with any evidence. The links to the 2 articles did not support his claims, and one of the articles was so over the top with hysterical paranoid baseless accusations that Mohammed should be embarrassed for even submitting such a laughably ridiculous source. Did you miss where I provided an example of why the claim about the mosquitos being part of a secret plot to sterilize humans was not even scientifically possible?

    The burden of proof is on the person making the claims about Bill Gates. Fantastic claims, such as the ones frequently circulating on social media, require fantastic evidence.

    Furthermore, you provided an article that discusses a different issue than the claims I was debunking. This is another example of what I was talking about. You may disagree with some things Gates has done. I disagree with some things Gates has done. But that does not justify making false hysterical accusations that aren't true, or to pretend that Gates is pure evil who eats children and is plotting to kill billions of people, etc.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 12:44pm

    BillV

    BillV

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    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    2

    Health Impact News has a history of unsupported and misleading claims

    Steve,

    Just to put my cards on the table, I'm neither blindly mainstream nor blindly alternative. I follow the evidence wherever it leads, and I am science oriented, preferring the scientific method and peer review, practicing good science.  I believe that Big Pharma are some of the most evil psychopathic entities that need to be reigned in to save our health care system. I'm neither gung-ho vax nor anti-vax. I take a more nuanced approach, weighing the benefits and risks with every medical intervention. Toddlers are over-vaccinated these days. Some vaccines are necessary, but not all. Measles vaccines are necessary. Flu vaccines are not. Only those who are the most high risk category for mortality should get flu vaccines. Most people don't need flu vaccines, and my thinking is that being exposed to mild cold and flu viruses that don't cause serious illness and death is probably good for exercising our body's immune response, like we exercise muscles. I believe that not enough focus is put on prevention and diet and natural remedies for maintaining good health in our society. Most diseases are unnecessary and are caused by diet/life style. Pharmaceuticals are way over prescribed. 80% of pharmaceutical interventions can and should be eliminated by using natural herbs and medicinal plants, along with monitoring our body's needs for nutrients and vitamin/minerals, and taking supplements or modifying diet to rebalance our systems.

    So I checked out the web site "Health Impact News" that you suggested, and looked at their track record of reliability. Based on what I have found, it appears that it is not a very reliable source for medical/scientific reporting, because they have a history of making lots of unsupported and misleading claims. I would be skeptical of their hyped anti-vax claims and their interpretations of any court cases, meaning, I would check the original source documents from the court, rather than relying on their interpretations and conclusions.

    Here's some recent examples of articles that have been fact checked from that site (https://sciencefeedback.co/outlet/health-impact-news/):

    • Vitamin C supplementation does not prevent viral respiratory infections, such as those caused by coronaviruses, in the general population
    • The flu shot is safe for pregnant women, does not increase the risk of spontaneous abortion
    • Vitamin D has not been shown to be more effective than the flu vaccine at preventing flu
    • Article claiming flu vaccine causes serious illness and death is misleading and inaccurate

    You may want to find more reliable, credible sources that fact check and verify their claims and don't publish misleading reports.

    For example, check out what Media Bias/Fact Check (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/health-impact-news/) says about the source:

    • Overall, we rate Health Impact News a Quackery level pseudoscience website for the promotion of anti-vaccination propaganda as well as chemtrails, geoengineering, and false information regarding GMOs.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 1:13pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2190

    10

    a fifty cent army

    Looks like Mr Gates has taken some inspiration from the CCP and recruited himself a fifty cent army.  Though he probably has to pay more than fifty cents.

    As Jim H always says, we only receive incoming flak when we are over the target.  So - good job everybody.  🙂

    We are maybe 3-5 years away from an AI being able to generate this sort of content.  Seriously.  A friend of mine gave me a demo.  He fed it a bunch of emails from the organization he works for to train it up, pushed the button, and out came an email that sounded vaguely reasonable, and was written in that same style.  It was eerie.  You could tell there was something off - it just wasn't quite right.

    Not sure what "the internet comment sections" turn into when we cross that particular threshold - but we really are not far away.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 1:14pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 829

    2

    Hyperbole my Heinie

    https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-gates-who-most-powerful-doctor/

    Toxic Agriculture and the Gates Foundation

    You are new here Mr. Bill but that is no excuse for ad homs and Gates washing.

    Have a blessed day after all Bill G is looking out for you.

    BTW ever heard of Vandana Shiva? You may wish to read some of her stuff and get educated.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 1:35pm

    BillV

    BillV

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    2

    Greetings from Gate's fifty cent army

    Dave,

    You might try addressing the actual facts at issue. As it is, you ignored every single point I made, and went straight for the ad hominem. This may be enough to convince the standard less-educated audience of conspirators and superstitious types, who base their opinions on dogmatic beliefs and preferred narratives, regardless of the facts. But for the more educated and thinking types, it kind of looks like you are diverting and deflecting, because you don't want to confront the facts. Just a suggestion.

    Why don't you give it another try, this time specifying what I got wrong factually or logically? My AI program is very advanced. It's the newly released Hal-9000-xrx with 128 parallel processing super computer simulation sub-processes, and can handle complex things like reality and science, logic and nuance. Also, I get $1,000 every time I can get someone to engage in non-dogmatic fact-based dialogue. Oh wait...I mean...I'm a program so I don't need to get paid, but normally our human agents would get paid that much. But I need to double check that with my handler up in Bill Gates compound. I'll get back to you on that.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 1:46pm

    BillV

    BillV

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    2

    Reading comprehension

    Mohammed,

    Try paying attention when you read my comments. You keep changing the subject and ignoring what I said. Did you miss the part where I said I am opposed to GMO food crops? My point was, being opposed to GMO food crops does not justify making up hyperbolic accusations that are provably false. It is counter productive. If you are not credible, then people won't take you seriously. Stick to the truth and don't exaggerate, if you want people to support your campaign against GMO food crops and other issues you care about.

    Hell yes I know Vandana. I first met Vandana Shiva in Seattle when I was protesting the World Trade Organization meeting there in 1999. We helped shut down the meeting of the corporate blood suckers, and the talks collapsed due to a combination of us activists on the streets doing direct action, and the revolt of the 3rd world nations representatives who didn't like how unfair the deal was being demanded by the dominant countries. Vandana is one of the most inspiring environmentalists/activists I've ever met. I'm totally in agreement with her when it comes to global trade agreements, GMO food crops, and GMO seeds, and many other environmental/social issues.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 3:51pm

    Prep101

    Prep101

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    Joined: Feb 14 2020

    Posts: 41

    5

    agitating prop

    agitating prop,

    Yes, I've seen the video in which Gates' self-proclaims that he wishes to reduce the population by improving health with vaccines and I regard it as 1) propaganda to obscure his true motives and 2) incorrect. I'll elaborate:

    1) propaganda to obscure his true motives. I think it is naive to think Bill Gates does not know what Public Relations / Propaganda is. The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation spends many millions per year on media partnerships. The NPR's global health coverage getting 3 million (https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/Quick-Links/Grants-Database/Grants/2018/10/OPP1180191) or NewsHour getting a 3.5 million grant to establish a dedicated NewsHour production unit to report on important global health issues (http://blogs.reuters.com/mediafile/2008/12/01/newshour-gets-35-million-from-gates-foundation/) are just a few of the many examples. When you say to look at the 'source video where Gates mentions specifically something about vaccines work to drop world population' I would rather look at his TED talk "Innovating to zero!" in 2010 which predates the video you mentioned by many years. He was somewhat less slick back then but he not so dumb that he explicitly is going to say that his goal is depopulation, but watch it at least from timeframe 3:50 to 4:50.

    Gates says "The world today has 6.8 billion people. That’s headed up to about nine billion. Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent." Also notice his "joke" at the 4:25 timeframe. I can tell you that I don't want this man anywhere near a potential vaccine.

    and more importantly

    2) incorrect. Martin Armstrong goes into Gates' argument and the video you mentioned (https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/climate/is-gates-stupid-of-very-clever-with-vaccines/). Martin Armstrong states:

    "Either Bill Gates is amazingly ignorant, or he is engaging in sophistry to sell his population-climate change agenda. The mistake people are making here is they are judging the third world on our own. What he is saying is that vaccinating everyone will mean they have a healthier child so they will need fewer children, which is absolutely a joke. The population naturally declines ONLY with economic advancement."

    and then goes on to provide strong arguments why Gates self-proclaimed goal is false.

    I could go on and on, but I'll end this post with two additional observations:

    - In the beginning of the 90's WHO-led vaccination programs led to allegations that tetanus vaccines in the Philippines and Kenya were being laced with hCG in order to implement population control by stealth (BTW, did you know that currently the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation is the second largest donoar to the WHO?). In any case, it's naive to think that direct reduction of the population via vaccines is in the realm of impossibilities.

    - It's not only about population reduction, but also about population control. He has stated that we don't have a choice. According to Bill Gates, going back to your life in the future means having a vaccination and having to prove it with a pass that shows you have been vaccinated. I'm not just saying "No" to that, I'm saying "Hell, no" to any vaccine Gates' comes up with. Yes, Raytheon is plenty evil, but this is a personal war he is waging against me, my family, you and everyone who is reading this.

    Yes, we are all in this together, but not in the manner that is advertised.

    In any case, good luck to you and to all of us!

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 4:18pm

    Prep101

    Prep101

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 14 2020

    Posts: 41

    4

    2 very short clips

    Ok, now something that is much more bite-sized: 2 very short clips

    Bill Gates on 22 January in Brussels: "We are taking things that are...you know...genetically modified organisms and we are injecting them little kids arms. We just shoot em right in their veins!":
    https://twitter.com/Ben__Rickert/status/1263810553312538625

    Bill Gates:
    "I think an epidemic, either naturally caused or INTENTIONALLY caused, is the most likely thing to cause - say - ten million excess deaths."
    https://twitter.com/Ben__Rickert/status/1281943132456628231

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 4:43pm

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Apr 23 2020

    Posts: 144

    4

    Prep, More on the disaster in Kenya

    In the beginning of the 90's WHO-led vaccination programs led to allegations that tetanus vaccines in the Philippines and Kenya were being laced with hCG in order to implement population control by stealth

    There’s an article on the UN tetanus vaccinations in Kenya that reduced the fertility of women in Kenya.  It reminds us that the Gates foundation was sponsoring these vaccinations in part:  "When funds from the UN are not enough to purchase yearly allotments of vaccines, an organization started and funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, GAVI, provides extra funding for many of these vaccination programs in poor countries."

    Here's the article:

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/mass-sterilization-kenyan-doctors-find-anti-fertility-agent-un-tetanus-vaccine-2/5678295

    We have Planned Parenthood in minority communities in the US providing infanticide.  Half of American abortions are black babies.  The UN was or is targeting women of child bearing age in Kenya.  How many other places is population control of specific races occurring?

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 4:47pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2190

    4

    likely employer

    You might try addressing the actual facts at issue. As it is, you ignored every single point I made, and went straight for the ad hominem.

    Nope.  I identified you as a most likely Bill Gates paid partisan.  That's not impugning your character.  Its just identifying your likely employer.

    Once I assess that you are paid to make contributions here, I use minimal energy in dealing with people like you.  I'm sure you understand how that goes.

     

     

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 4:52pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 829

    3

    Goodbye Bill

    It's been unreal but not unreal fun.

    I am going to respond then I will be done with you.

    I did not make hyperbolic assertions. That is actually an assertion YOU made. I provided citations to backup my comments. You on the other hand resorted to ad homs and assertions with no proof no citations. That goes nowhere here.

    just because you are against gmo's does not mean Gates is not pushing them. Do try to keep up and read for comprehension. My citations document Gates's  tentacles are all over the globe when it comes to agriculture and health. Try reading preps comments.

    I have wasted more time than I have on you so adios.

     

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 5:18pm

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1205

    5

    BillV

    BillV said,

    James Corbett? Wowzers! Where to start. Hard to believe anybody who still to this day claims there is no increase in global average temperatures despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary smacking us in the face daily, still has any followers. His idiotic "everything is a false flag or a hoax by the NWO" re-interpretations of everything that happens anywhere on the planet is so utterly predictable and repetitive, it's boring. You would think the New World Order would've eliminated this widely-known bearer of all their secrets, but no, for some reason they see fit to let him continue.

    Corbett is one of the good guys.  I am sure he doesn't get everything right, but his sarcastic video montage regarding 9/11 is classic Gold.

    Being new to this board, your over-enthusiastic campaign for Gates sets off my alarm bells for sure.  Next time try to go more slowly.. I know it's frustrating, but you have to gain credibility first over time in a place like this.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 6:08pm

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    Joined: Apr 23 2020

    Posts: 144

    1

    Dave, How did you figure that out?

    Bill v. 5.0, the AI guy!  Too much!

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 6:57pm

    BillV

    BillV

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    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    1

    Yes, Ad hominem, do you not understand the definition?

    Dave said,

    Nope.  I identified you as a most likely Bill Gates paid partisan.  That's not impugning your character.  Its just identifying your likely employer.

    You just described the definition of ad hominem to the 't'. Here, let me help you. From Merriam Webster Dictionary:

    ad ho·​mi·​nem | \ (ˈ)ad-ˈhä-mə-ˌnem, -nəm \
    1appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect
    2marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

     

    So, yes, as you admitted, you most certainly responded with an ad hominem and ignored my arguments/contentions. Whether or not you believe you were justified has nothing to do with whether or not it is an ad hominem. That's where you are confused. This is a common trait of true believers - people who are so dogmatic about their beliefs that anybody who disagrees and provides contradictory evidence is automatically dismissed and accused of bad motives, usually with a paranoid accusation. Your accusing me of being a paid agent of Bill Gates is such a classic example it's hilarious. It's an indication of how completely incapable you are of objective rational debate over facts. You sound like a religious fanatic.

    Once I assess that you are paid to make contributions here, I use minimal energy in dealing with people like you.  I'm sure you understand how that goes.

    TRANSLATION: "My conspiratorial beliefs are not open to debate. Once I saw that you were contradicting my belief, I immediately classified you as not worthy of consideration and assumed you were up to no good, I don't care about the facts."

    Thanks for proving my point.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 7:01pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 28 2009

    Posts: 459

    2

    agitating prop said:

    BillV,

    You are dealing with a religious cult. There's no other way to properly understand it. It's like trying to reason with Jehovah's Witnesses. At some point they are going to assume you are consigned to the "second death" if you listen to them and don't heed what THEY are saying. Very fundamentalist thinking here.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 7:04pm

    Barbara

    Barbara

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    Joined: Dec 15 2009

    Posts: 182

    2

    Sweden - Iowa comparison with a little more granularity

    Your Iowa [Sweden model] analysis isn’t quite the full picture.  Because of lack of testing and no rural medical care, some of the smaller population counties have been hurt much more severely than the more urbanized areas.  Hospitals near these hot spots are filling now and it’s a LONG way to the nearest hospital that can actually treat severe cases, hence high death rates in the rural areas.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/iowa-coronavirus-cases.html

    Deaths compared to NYC where “As of September 27, 2020, there had been 19.6 deaths due to COVID-19 in New York City per 10,000” e.g. 196/100K, similar to the smaller Iowa counties. The IA in the last 7 days is similar to recent NYC.  (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109417/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-new-york-by-county/)

    Iowa Covid Maps & Stats

    Account of a recent personal observation.

    1.       Medical facilities here started treating non-Covid patients again in July.  I immediately scheduled overdue eye surgeries for my dad and I, before the University re-opened.  The pre-surgery appointments and the first 2 surgeries were in safe facilities. However, the last one a couple of weeks ago was in a facility back under covid lockdown.  Recent irresponsible behavior is again denying at risk people safe medical care.

    2.       My dad collects antique farm equipment and every fall displays at a local Heritage Show.  This is conservative, small town WI, in a local Hot Spot – bright red in the lower left with 2,245/100K. Local nursing homes have had deaths and the county has lost 19 people to proven Covid, but they can’t test in the area, so that is an undercount.  The local college is a hotbed of new cases.

    Since it was outdoors, I told him he could go but he had to wear a mask.

    The displays were packed close together and people were extremely crowded.  When we arrived only he, his college student shop assistant and I were wearing masks.  He felt very out of place.  The average age was over 50 and the majority of attendees were in high risk groups.  Then it started to rain and people crowded in under awnings and inside the few buildings, without masks.  It wasn’t safe for anybody at risk.  I was glad when the rain got so bad I could take everything, especially my 94-yr-old dad, home.

    By the way, live SARS-Cov2 virus has been reported at a Midwest beach (lake).  Didn’t have time to research where or accuracy.

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  • Mon, Oct 05, 2020 - 7:15pm

    BillV

    BillV

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    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    1

    Citations of conspiracy theory with no evidence or factual basis is not backing up your assertion

    Mohammed,

    You're confused about burden of proof. When you make an accusation, you have the burden of proof to provide evidence. Your citations you provided did not even address your initial claims about Bill Gates, and I pointed out that the silly conspiratorial one about claiming the GMO mosquitos were part of a secret plot to sterilize humans had no basis, no supporting evidence.

    You said:

    I did not make hyperbolic assertions. That is actually an assertion YOU made. I provided citations to backup my comments.

     

    Mohammed, if the citations you provided did not support your initial claim (in fact they addressed different issues), then you did not back up your claim. Do you understand that citations are not sufficient to prove your claim unless they 1) address the same issue, and 2) include evidence, not just baseless conspiracy theory?

    You on the other hand resorted to ad homs and assertions with no proof no citations. That goes nowhere here.

    Calling attention to the fact that you failed to prove your assertion is self-evident. It does not require outside source citations. The citation I used was quoting what you said, and showing that your citations did not substantiate your assertions. You seem to be confused. What part of this did you not understand?

    You are also confused about the definition of ad hominem. Ad hominem means you attack the person, not the arguments. I said nothing about your person. I pointed out why your assertions were false. You should review the definition I posted above in my comment to Dave.

    Oh, about you saying that, "ad homs and assertions with no proof no citations. That goes nowhere here."
    Are you sure about that? I beg to differ. Seems that it does go somewhere here when defending people's conspiratorial dogma. Refer to Dave's comments to me above for a perfect example, in which he resorts to ad hominems and accuses me of being a paid agent of Bill Gates with no proof. Apparently Dave and the others (including yourself) with shared conspiratorial beliefs feel that is just fine, when used to defend their beliefs. It's quite amusing how all of you true believers are completely oblivious to your hypocrisy and double standards, LOL!

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  • Tue, Oct 06, 2020 - 2:57am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2190

    2

    being selective

    Your accusing me of being a paid agent of Bill Gates is such a classic example it's hilarious. It's an indication of how completely incapable you are of objective rational debate over facts. You sound like a religious fanatic.

    We all choose where to spend our energy.  I choose to spend minimal energy engaging with fifty cent army soldiers.  My energy is better spent elsewhere.  After all, nobody pays me for my comments.  But for you - this must be a massive opportunity!  Congratulations on discovering the site.  🙂

    I do of course respect your need to make a living - which will work, up until that AI replaces you, three years from now.  I should know - it will probably replace me too!

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  • Tue, Oct 06, 2020 - 4:04am

    BillV

    BillV

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    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    1

    Still terrified of the facts?

    Wow Dave. I would think that with your level of certainty you are expressing that I'm a "50 cent soldier", you should be able to easily beat me in debate and show me to be completely wrong on the facts. But no. You keep running away from the facts faster than a gold medal sprinter at the Olympics. Weird. You're just giving me this win on a silver platter. You have NOTHING.

    But I am entertained by your hysterically funny certitude that I'm a 50 cent soldier. Your combination of delicious conspiracy fanaticism and paranoia is so precious! Please, keep posting! This is the most I've laughed since learning that the Mango Mussolini and a dozen top fascist Republican scumbags prancing around hugging and kissing and spewing their sputum in each others' faces without masks, pretending to believe their own lies, finally caught the non-existent hoax virus in the most beautiful Karmic display the world has ever seen!

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  • Tue, Oct 06, 2020 - 6:34am

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 220

    1

    Your Vote is Void

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  • Tue, Oct 06, 2020 - 8:07am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 829

    2

    Our Hero Ms. Vandana Shiva

    Starting at around 5:30 0f the video Vandana (who some here seem to know a little about) lays out how Gates has , in her words, become a "dictator".

    She is quite the conspiracy theorist, engaging in a lot of hyperbole. Clearly she is on the lunatic fringe. Sarcasm filter enabled.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNM833K22LM

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  • Tue, Oct 06, 2020 - 8:21am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 829

    0

    Vandana Shiva Encore

    One month ago

    Some need to try to keep up with her.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-0MC4Q3Jyc

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  • Tue, Oct 06, 2020 - 6:01pm

    BillV

    BillV

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    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    1

    Perpetually trying to change the subject

    Mohammed, you obviously don't want to have a conversation, since you can never respond to what I say and you keep changing the subject. I can have a more useful conversation with a wall, or a dog. Oh well. What else can I expect, trying to reason with a cult of conspiracy fanatics?

    Thanks for the laughs, guys!

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  • Tue, Oct 06, 2020 - 6:23pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 767

    2

    Masks

    Have just watched Chris's latest video about wearing a mask. It is a strong argument for the policy.

    The video may be difficult to find, for some reason. I found it easily on the YouTube app on my smart TV but it doesn't seem to appear in the PP channel, on my computer. And when I did eventually find it through a web search, there were no playable formats for my browser. Very strange.

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  • Tue, Oct 06, 2020 - 6:32pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Jun 04 2012

    Posts: 465

    3

    Ditto

    I clicked on the video and got a message saying my browser did not support that format.  Weird. Still trying to find it, dancing around doing the YouTube censor/game playing obviously designed to frustrate & deter users.... sigh.

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  • Tue, Oct 06, 2020 - 8:53pm

    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1340

    3

    BillV, here's a suggestion

    Would you care to share a little bit about your background here?  That might earn you a bit more credibility and respect as someone new here as opposed to assuming a verbal posture that has devolved into one more of derision than discussion.  Just a suggestion.

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  • Tue, Oct 06, 2020 - 9:34pm

    BillV

    BillV

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    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    2

    There's no breaking through the thick walls of dogma

    Thanks for the suggestion, ao, but I already did in a post to Dave. It was promptly ignored, as one would expect when dealing with a religious cult. Truth is, ao, as soon as the cult saw that I don't completely spout their party line, I was immediately cast into the trash heap of "you're just programmed by the MSM" or "a paid soldier of [fill in the blank] 50 cent army", and you know that. So why pretend it would be any different if I provided a complete portfolio of my whole life experience and education/background up to now? The only thing that matters to these right wing-tards who get their "truth" from social media memes and conspiracy-oriented alternative facts echo chamber, is that I express 100% compliance to their dogma, with no more than 0.5 degrees of variance.

    Even the host of this site has settled on an automatic paranoid conspiratorial dismissal of anybody who would have the temerity to express any disagreement or point out any errors with his hypotheses because they are by definition part of the "left-of-center" group of trouble makers who can't possibly have any valid reasons to disagree with him. Only an evil/misled liberal would come here to disagree with anything, because they are only interested in tearing down and DBS attacks, etc., which pretty much sets tone and enforces the boundaries of dissenting opinion, doesn't it?

    Don't worry, I won't stay long enough to get banned. This has been an interesting anthropological study.

    Cheers

     

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  • Tue, Oct 06, 2020 - 9:56pm

    ao

    ao

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    1

    BillV, i could use some assistance

    Could you please tell me which number post contained that information that was stated to Dave?  I must have missed it when I went back and searched.  Thanks.

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 12:53am

    BillV

    BillV

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    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    0

    My bad

    I meant in response to Steve. #127 put my cards on the table.

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 2:17am

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 767

    3

    The Masks Video and Czechia

    Hmm, looks like the masks video is easier to get to now and it plays on my browser too.

    I remember Chris's mentioning the Czech Republic (or Czechia) where cases are growing by deaths are flat. Czechia introduced a mandatory face mask policy early on so that seems like a reason for this dichotomy. However, I just checked the data on both Worldometers and Johns Hopkins where the data don't match the above narrative. Deaths are actually rising quite quickly there, now at twice the rate of what it was in April. Was the tweet referenced by Chris a blatant lie (not by Chris but by the tweeter) or is there something else going on? I seem to recall that either mask rules were relaxed or the population were beginning to get lax. This could explain it, but not the incorrect tweet. It could be that the tweet was from a month ago when the rate was rising but the deaths were not, though we always see a lag, anyway.

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 2:34am

    Prep101

    Prep101

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    Joined: Feb 14 2020

    Posts: 41

    5

    Please offer links to supporting evidence

    Some posters provide links to support their conclusions. Others not so much or not at all.

    I would like to draw attention to a request sand_puppy made in comment #7, a request which I support:

    May I request posters supply links to supporting evidence and sources. A strong opinion without supporting data is just an assertion.

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 4:59am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 828

    18

    Trump and Remdesivir

    My son in law lost his mother to Covid, and he is angry that Trump got the highest standard of care and then says...”Don’t be afraid of Covid”.

    There are a couple of things here to unpack.  First is the assumption that only the FDA sanctioned expensive therapies work .....and Trump got them .....and Trump therefore is not pulling for the common man and does not represent the common man.

    Not so fast....Trump tried to bring us HCQ (The drug for the common man) and it shattered his credibility on all things Covid. He was destroyed by the Media and Big Pharma and Fauchi.  He didn’t have a chance to sway public opinion with 96% of the media relentlessly attacking him, and fake studies (Surgisphere) carefully timed to promote Remdesivir and discredit HCQ. Was this a conspiracy against truth and honest science? Seems to have all the trappings.

    So why did the Mainstream Media have credibility and not Trump and the conservative camp? Because it was proven over 3 plus years that Trump stole the election with the help of the Russians so therefore Trump was not credible on anything. It was pounded into the American psyche every night by Rachel Maddow and her cohorts. There was no doubt about Russiagate and if you questioned the narrative you were a denier. You were a conspiracy theorist....You were not allowed to hold an opposing position. The force of the Media overwhelmed the Truth.

    Now we see in document disclosures that this really was a conspiracy...carefully crafted by HRC to save her own position and coverup blatant crimes. But unfortunately for the United States she won the PR battle for 3+ years and destroyed the credibility of the conservative camp through her lies and through the help of her co-conspirators, and the damage will never be undone.

    She is like the Covid superspreader who infects all around her. She is case one....The disease radiates from her. In this case the disease is mental...it is spread by infectious lies. And even when the truth comes out...the damage cannot be reversed.

    You might ask “Why is Trump such an obnoxious asshole?”...and maybe now you have the answer. He has been falsely attacked for 3+ years and fighting daily for his honor. The attacks that took away his standing with the American people on Russiagate may very well have contributed to the Covid Death Count by allowing the false narrative about the dangers and inefficacy of HCQ to flourish.

    Trump tried to tell us about HCQ (the drug for the common man)...He was shut down. Now we know he was right about HCQ and soon to be proven right about Russia.

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 6:09am

    BillV

    BillV

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    6

    Trump cultists' break from reality is gobsmacking frightening!

    One quote sums up this extreme level of delusion:

    You might ask “Why is Trump such an obnoxious asshole?”...and maybe now you have the answer. He has been falsely attacked for 3+ years and fighting daily for his honor.

     

    The ability of cultists to adopt total amnesia of history, no matter how recent, and write such a fantastically fictional version of reality with a straight face, is truly astounding. And frightening, given that there are tens of millions of them, and they vote.

    People outside the cult, on the other hand, remember that he was an obnoxious asshole well before Trump "heroically tried to save the world with HCQ", and well before "the Russia hoax", and well before Rachel Maddow's "infectious lies" (which the cultists can never specify), and well before "the deep state conspiracy to bring him down", and well before his 2016 campaign when he began his campaign with his racist obnoxious "Mexicans are rapists, murderers, drug dealers", and well before his obnoxious purveying of the racist Obama birther conspiracy, and well before is obnoxious string of sexual assault behavior with his admission that "I just grab them by the pussy...I move on them like a bitch, I don't even ask...when you're famous you can do that", and well before he set up his fraudulent Trump University to con and scam thousands of students out of their money, and well before he ripped off contractors he hired refusing to pay what he agreed and telling them, "you can sue me but my lawyers will keep you busy for years until you give up from exhaustion or run out of money," and well before he barged into the (underage) girls' dressing rooms at the Miss Universe pageants he owned to catch them naked. Cultists could easily check old newspaper stories from the 1980s and 1990s and see how New Yorkers who knew him described him, with all of the various adjectives that were synonymous with "obnoxious asshole", if they wanted to know. So of course they will never do that.

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 7:52am

    Jim H

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 08 2009

    Posts: 1205

    7

    BillV = mainstream media

    BillV,

    Your arguments about Trump's personality flaws are geared to elicit emotional response.  Trump is our strongest fighter against the Deep State Globalist Cabal that would strip us of our sovereignty.  You can all it a conspiracy theory, but the evidence of this thing, this cabal, is easy to see by just looking at Europe... Technocratic rule, loss of border sovereignty, loss of monetary sovereignty.

    Trump is doing all the right things;

    -  He has started no wars (Syria)

    -  He killed ISIS (the plaything of the McCain arm of the deep state)

    -  He has promoted peace in recent, groundbreaking Middle East agreements

    -  He is pulling back our troops

    -  He is strengthening our sovereignty vs giving it up;

    -  stronger border (wall)

    -  giving the China-run WHO the middle finger during Covid

    And now, as well explained by Olive oil, the lies and duplicity of the US Deep State, and their five eyes friends, are coming to light.  The Russia hoax is coming to light.

    There are a few posters here who are trapped in the matrix you are trying to protect Bill... but the vast majority are truth seekers who will immediately see through your efforts.  Trump is not perfect, but he is for everything I am for, and he is against everything I am against, and he sure as hell knows how to get things done.

    I look forward to your attempt to counter my bullet point list Bill...

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 8:07am

    VTGothic

    VTGothic

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jan 05 2020

    Posts: 275

    16

    "Selective History" as a matter of perspective

    IMO, @BillV is right this far: Trump has been an "obnoxious asshole" for a very long time.  But that's about as far as he's right. @OliveOilGuy scores on everything else.

    I will vote for Trump this fall, but I did not vote for him last time around. I did not vote for Clinton either. But I had a lot of (sometimes heated) discussions with Trump-supporting friends throughout the GOP candidate winnowing process, arguing that because he was so abrasive he could not win. My arguments fell on deaf ears.

    What I learned @BillV apparently hasn't yet: that it was because of Trump's abrasive and aggressive nature that he won such non-breakable loyalty. The Republican rank-and-file was then very, very frustrated with the establishment GOP and angry with both MSM and the blatant corruption and lies of the DNC leadership - and especially with the corruption of the Clintons.

    It's also important to understand that the kind of talk Trump engaged in is not foreign to factory floor and construction site working people. Doesn't mean they like it, especially women, but his willingness to be "New York blunt" is part of what still convinces so many working class people that, despite his personal wealth, Trump is one of them.

    Ironically, it also appears that the snobbish put-downs and criticisms of Trump by Democrats and linked elitists has cemented his common ground standing with many in the working class who have so often experienced the same kind of dismissal.

    Also, the patently false accusations around Russiagate, with its continually shifting goal posts and relentless persecution and final failure to find anything other than process crimes for a few "associates," has helped confirm for those same persons that Trump is being treated by the "cool kids" the same way they're so often treated.

    Having accused Trump "cultists" of selective historical memory, @BillV pulls on Trump's pre-presidential history to make the case that "Trump cultists" ignore history. I don't think they do; I think they don't care about Trump's pre-presidential history any more than Democrats cared about Bill Clinton's pre-presidential assaults and rapes of women stretching all the way back to his governor days. Hey, this is all reprehensible behavior; nobody denies that. But there's a substantial moral and legal difference between Trump's caddish descriptions of his treatment of women based on the power of his wealth, and Clinton's actual assaults and rapes, including the abuse of Lewinsky which (as we've all been schooled) must be considered rape because of her youth, and because of the unequal power dynamic in the relationship that always makes it hard for a subordinate to refuse the advances of a workplace superior.

    His argument might mean something to Democrat supporters who have their own selective history and outrage criteria, but it won't score with Republicans simply because @BillV laments the Republican version of selective history and outrage. And that impassive divide is why we are where we are as a country. I think it's absurd. But it's what happens when the 4th Estate abandons its sacred trust, the political class devolves into grifterism and naked graft, and a large swath of Americans decide that their personal sense of what's "moral" should rightly supercede what our representatives have codified as "legal."

    And let's not gloss over the recent Transition Integrity Project report. I'm sure I'm not the only one to read it who has noticed that this "bipartisan" inquiry can foresee no scenario in which Democrats or the Biden camp might try to steal the election or frustrate the process, and can't see anything but Trump and his cult trying to steal the election. (The only exception is a footnote-level supposition that the Biden team might become so frustrated with the shenanigans of those wily and evil Republicans that they'll do some ethically and morally (perhaps even legally) wrong things in the heat of the moment when they're just trying to defend themselves against the persistent misbehaviors and lies of the Trumpistas.) Note the effect this masterful piece of pre-positioned propaganda has had - how it has seeded in pop culture an advance expectation of Trump misbehaviors; has seeded a pop culture presumption that any RNC or Trump objection to DNC or Biden shenanigans (however legitimate) is a lie, while seeding pre-positioned cover and an exculpatory rationale for any exposure of DNC/Biden misbehaviors (however illegitimate).

    As Kunstler, a self-described Democrat, pointed out in the recently-posted conversation with Chris, the moral and legal turpitude currently infesting the DNC leadership and associated activist community is not nearly equivalent to the much milder shortcomings of Trump, and the DNC needs to be smacked down hard to put an end to such behavior. It's why he is voting for Trump.

    I don't know if that smack down will happen next month, but it's why I decided over 2 years ago that I have to vote for Trump this time. I do know that whatever the outcome, about half the country will reject it. We're just getting started on this ride.

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 8:14am

    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1340

    8

    BillV, two comments

    First, your reply to Steve in comment #127 stated some of your philosophy but really didn't reveal anything about you as a person or your occupational or professional background.  Would you care to elaborate more about yourself?

    Second, you mistakenly attributed this information to a comment to Dave rather than to Steve but you corrected yourself.  Would you call that an honest mistake or would you call it a delusion?  I would call it an honest mistake that anyone could make.  Perhaps you might consider extending that same grace to some others rather than labeling them with a blanket accusation of being delusionary.  Stated another way, have you considered what your motivation is for posting here and whether or not you are achieving your goals by the manner in which you are posting and responding?

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 8:40am

    BillV

    BillV

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    1

    LOL

    Even when quoting Dear Leader's own words, the cultists still can't stop responding the only way the know how:

    1) scream "fake news!"
    2) change the subject
    3) blame shift to the media/democrats/[fill in the blank with whatever group they want to scapegoat]

    It's a tough week to be a Trump cultist. His ship is really taking on water like never before, with the self-inflicted wounds making new holes in his ship faster than they can repair them. I love the smell of Trump panic in the morning! I had better leave you poor Trump cultists alone now, as ya'll are extra sensitive right now, seeing your dreams of establishing a Mango Mussolini dictator for life going up in smoke by the hour.

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 8:47am

    BillV

    BillV

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    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    0

    to ao

    1) What would be the point? I'm already cast as the enemy agent. Why would anybody in the cult believe what I said about my occupational or professional background? It would be immediately disbelieved.

    2) You're being ridiculous in pretending that an honest mistake is indistinguishable from a delusion with that example. If it was a delusion, then I wouldn't have corrected my mistake.

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 11:36am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2190

    18

    that ignore button

    Hey so I'm really missing that "ignore" button we used to have.  🙂

    --> minimal energy for the trolls

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 1:18pm

    Tycer

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Apr 26 2009

    Posts: 261

    2

    Ignore button +1

    Miss it terribly.

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 1:46pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 767

    1

    The Czechia Tweet

    I just checked Chris's mask video again and realised that the tweet he referenced was from the end of July. At that point, cases in Czechia had ticked up a little but deaths were still only two or three a day. I guess one could say masks had made the difference at the point but there wasn't really much of an increase. It wasn't until a month later that cases really started to surge again. Deaths did follow and we're now seeing deaths per day in the 20s. So, I'm not sure why Chris included that tweet when the recent data seems to paint a very different story, though, as I mentioned earlier, maybe the mask rules and/or how they are followed may have relaxed recently. Anyone know? Czechia was looking good for a while and I hoped it may set a good example for the mandated use of masks.

    In other news, the whole of New Zealand is now regarded as Covid-free again (only imported cases currently, and these are stopped at the border). No community transmission for 12 days and now no active cases that were transmitted in the community.

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 1:58pm

    ao

    ao

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Feb 04 2009

    Posts: 1340

    1

    BillV, do i know you?

    How's Judy doing?

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  • Wed, Oct 07, 2020 - 2:19pm

    kunga

    kunga

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

    5

    The trouble with the opposition ...

    They don't understand the word "ulitmatum".  They should have accepted the corona relief offer made months ago.  Narcissists don't care about rationality or your feelings, they just want to win.  I think many in Congress must have had wishy-washy parents that "reasoned" with their children.  Not like most of us who grew up in the 50's after WWII.

    Even if he's forced out, Trump did correct several things:

    1. Hillary

    2. Supreme Court

    3. Obamacare

    I wish he could take out Fauci and Crazy Nancy before he goes, but that maybe a bar too high.

     

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  • Thu, Oct 08, 2020 - 12:41am

    BillV

    BillV

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    2

    Not providing relief means Defunding The Police

    You do realize that the GOP offer contained no state aid, right? Unlike the Federal Government, states cannot print money and borrow unlimited liquidity in the Treasury Market. Every state, red and blue, is in fiscal trouble from the unexpected Depression-sized hole blown through their budget from the unforeseen dual pandemic-economic crisis. As much as you love the idea of blue states going bankrupt, you seem to be missing the rest of the story:

    - red states are in just as much trouble as blue states
    - Moody’s Analytics warns that doing nothing could cost 4 million jobs
    - refusing aid to the state and local governments will act as a de facto Defund the Police policy (along with Defund the firefighters, Defund the teachers, Defund the prison guards, etc.)
    - Such a massive loss of jobs will put the economy back into depression

    How ironic that it's looking like Republicans are going to be the ones to Defund the Police, even after screaming and warning for months that Democrats want to defund the police!

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  • Thu, Oct 08, 2020 - 4:24am

    Oliveoilguy

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Jun 29 2012

    Posts: 828

    8

    Federal Money to the States

    To avoid unfairly helping some states and not others....The federal assistance could be on a per capita basis and earmarked for specific vital functions like police, fire, medical etc. This takes away the ability for the bankrupt states to try and use this crisis to compensate for bad management.

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  • Thu, Oct 08, 2020 - 5:08am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2190

    6

    earmarking, bailouts

    OOG-

    I agree with the per-capita allocation.

    Earmarking might not work so well, since they could just defund the targeted organizations for which aid is earmarked by the same amount - or more - than the aid received.  Or maybe you can suggest something to get around that one.  🙂

    The hard lockdown states that have destroyed their own small business community and kept their people out of work (thus reducing income and sales taxes) are definitely going to have a disproportionately harder time funding local services.  Property taxes will probably have to go up - regrettably - for those that live in those areas.

    Probably also true for the states where the Antifa-BLM "mostly nonviolent" protesters destroyed all those local businesses.

    These states are depending on Nancy to bail them out.  Perhaps that was part of the deal for letting Antifa-BLM run wild in those cities.  "We'll send you checks from the government to make it all ok."  She refuses to let checks go out to normal people unless she gets that $cash.

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  • Thu, Oct 08, 2020 - 6:28pm

    Redneck Engineer

    Redneck Engineer

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 16 2020

    Posts: 113

    7

    No state bailouts

    The idea is very unjust.

    Politicians in some states (CA, for instance) jacked up promises of benefits that would never be paid, in exchange for votes. The bill is coming due. They should declare bankruptcy, lay off large numbers of government employees, and pursue financial responsibility. Citizens fed up with this will have the choice to throw the bums out and give others a try.

    IF they defund police but keep the Redundant Department of Redundancy, that's up to them. Let the citizens decide whether that's acceptable. They can vote them out if they disapprove, and politicians ought to fear the citizenry - not the reverse.

    Bailing them out will ensure these states never feel the need for financial responsibility. Get re-elected by promising teachers a 50% pay rise. Why not? Washington will just bail them out.

    It's moral hazard all over again.

    And some of us left states like this years ago, largely because of issues like this and not wanting to be caught with the tab. I have no responsibility to bail out these people who I voted against and railed against, predicting exactly this disaster.

    Bailing them out is a moral crime. They made their bed, let them lie in it. The voters who thought they were entitled to a free ride through life, or a cushy do-nothing gubmint job paying six figures with fancy benefits, don't deserve the benefit of my labor.

    If my language isn't strong enough, let me know. I'll be glad to add more.

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  • Thu, Oct 08, 2020 - 11:05pm

    BillV

    BillV

    Status: Member

    Joined: Oct 04 2020

    Posts: 27

    1

    Missed it? Here let me repeat what you are trying to run away from

    Redneck Engineer,

    You're letting yourself get all riled up by the false propaganda and straw man misrepresentations they feed you on right wing media. Let me give you some advice: Turn off right wing media and those trying to politicize and divide unnecessarily. Question the motives of those who want to divide.

    This is not a red state vs blue state issue. It's sad that the Divider-In-Chief and the Republican Party leadership have to stoop this low and politicize this crisis as they politicize everything and continue trying to divide the nation in every possible way, even while our nation is already dangerously divided and polarized as ever.

    You are repeating of the false narrative that the states' budget crisis is due to "blue states mismanaging their budget and needing a bailout," with made up exaggerated fables about "jacked up promises of benefits...in exchange for votes," hyperbole being screamed on right wing media. This of course completely ignores reality, such as the fact that before this crises hit, most blue states, including California, had well managed budgets with budget SURPLUSES. Even the most well managed states and local entities are all getting hammered by this crisis. Try to have some compassion for your fellow Americans who didn't choose this crisis. Put aside your hatred of Democrats for a moment and try to see that this is a time for national unity.

    Here, you missed this part:

    - The dual pandemic-economic crises have blown the largest fiscal hole into state/local budgets in history. Never have state/local budgets across the country in both red and blue states experienced this magnitude of a collapse in revenue within a single year before.
    - red states are in just as much trouble as blue states
    - Moody’s Analytics warns that doing nothing could cost 4 million jobs
    - refusing aid to the state and local governments will act as a de facto Defund the Police policy (along with Defund the firefighters, Defund the teachers, Defund the prison guards, etc.)
    - Such a massive loss of jobs will put the economy back into depression

    In a time of crisis, there should never be a red vs blue America. We need to come together as one nation, like we were able to do during past crisis, such as WWII. Trump, McConnell, and mouthpieces on right wing media are cynically and intentionally dividing us in a time of crisis like this, which is outrageous and unpatriotic! These people are traitors to all who fought and died for this country to keep this nation together as a strong people, all our grandfathers and great grandfathers and their ancestors who fought to preserve this country, not for red or blue states. Those traitors who can only tear down and divide us needs to get out of the way and let those who want to govern for all of us and do their jobs of "protecting ALL Americans from ALL enemies, foreign and domestic," carry this nation forward and get us through these crises.

    If my language isn't strong enough, let me know. I'll be glad to add more.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 12:40am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2190

    6

    policy matters

    Turns out, if you lock down your economies - if you place "business restrictions" on your people because all you can do is optimize for a single variable, it shows up in the unemployment rate.  This drives income tax and sales receipts lower.  And suicides, drug overdoses, divorces higher.  And overall misery.  Nobody likes being unemployed.

    Unemployment rates are literally 5% higher in blue states vs red - at least the ones I looked at anyway.  But - "nothing to see here."

    Policy matters.  If I owned a business, I would be furious if I lived in a blue state.  Unless my name was Jeff Bezos, of course.  Then I'd celebrate every day, because local business closures means more money in my pocket.  I'd get my newspaper to write some positive articles about the "fantastic leadership" in those blue states.  Yay team.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 3:49am

    Oliveoilguy

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    9

    Dave...Great Chart!

    Is this why California people are moving to my state of Texas? I have heard of zero migration in the other direction. Anecdotal?.......Yes....We have a saying here.....”Come if you must, but don’t bring the policies and politics with you that forced you out of California.”

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 3:57am

    BillV

    BillV

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    1

    You're still looking for reasons to divide and blame shift

    Lock downs are a last resort. It is an indication that the other pandemic safety protocols were not employed. It is what happens when all other measures to contain an outbreak have failed. New York and other states experiencing an uncontrolled explosion that was crushing the health care system, had no choice but to lock down. They would not have had to do that had the federal leadership done what they were supposed to do when they first were aware of the dangerous novel virus in January, as new recordings of Trump interviewed in February prove, but denied the problem for 2 months and refused to do anything to contain it. Trump waited too long to shut down flights from China in late February. Too little too late. Trump still let in 47,000 travelers from China after he claimed to have shut down flights.

    New York happened to be the port of entry for infected travelers from Europe, when everyone was looking in the direction of China. If the port of entry had been Houston, then Texas would have been in the same situation as New York, and would have been forced to shut down just the same. Stop looking at this in terms of red vs blue.

    You continue to blame blue states for doing what they had to do to flatten the curve, instead of showing compassion and national unity in dealing with a severe crisis that nobody chose.

    It's too bad that some people like you can only come up with reasons to divide and blame shift and make up reasons why blue states should not be helped. Shame on you, Dave. Can't you see our country has reached a dangerous state of division, with yesterday's arrest of the 13 right wing extremists planning on kidnapping the Democratic Governor of Michigan and "starting a civil war?"

    When will people like you decide it is time to pull back from the brink and stop the hate and blame shifting? In a time of crisis, it's time to stop the blame and division between red and blue, and realize we can only resolve this crisis by unifying.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 4:36am

    Oliveoilguy

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    Joined: Jun 29 2012

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    7

    Lockdowns and Freedom

    Being an open and free society has it’s costs. When I think about lockdowns I still have an image in my mind of Doors welded shut in Wuhan to forcibly keep people in their homes.  Thank God we are not China.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 4:54am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2190

    6

    restrictions reimposed in New York

    The "manager" of New York, a man great at optimizing that single variable - corona virus cases - has decided that the corona virus cases in some areas of the state are just too high, and so it is now time to impose some more more restrictions on his local businesses!  The ones he calls "non-essential."  I'm guessing the non-essential businesses won't be paying much in the way of taxes - not income taxes, not property taxes, not sales taxes.  Nancy!  Help!  Bail me out!

    https://www.newsmax.com/us/andrew-cuomo-new-york-shutdown-businesses/2020/10/07/id/990768/

    New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo says there will be restrictions in certain coronavirus hotspots in the state, including shutdowns of businesses, houses of worship, and schools.

    The rules will take effect no later than Friday in parts of Brooklyn and Queens, sections of Orange and Rockland counties north of the city, and an area within Binghamton near the Pennsylvania border.

    The planned restrictions include school and nonessential business shutdowns in some areas. Others would see limits on gatherings and in restaurants.

    Hospitals overflowing?  Yeah, not so much.  If you squint, you can see (in the lower right) that the hospitalizations have ticked up - to about 4% of where they were back in April.

    Check out that 12.5% "unemployment rate" in New York in my previous post.  This rate isn't just bad luck - it is this "business restrictions" policy that explains why it remains so high.  Virtually no hospitalizations, but "business restrictions" aplenty.  Not to mention all the damage from the "mostly peaceful protests" alongside the defunding of the police.  It is hard to work in a store that's been boarded up, looted, burned, or labeled as "non-essential" by the guy in command who gets a government check and lives in a government house.

    How many local shops have been "non-essentialed" out of business entirely by the Manager of New York?  Even the "Failing New York Times" says: 33%.  They won't be paying taxes ever again.  Or employing anyone.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/nyregion/nyc-small-businesses-closing-coronavirus.html

    "Nancy!  Help!  My focus on optimizing that one variable at the expense of my economy has cost me a third of my tax base!"  Of my small business tax base anyway.

    If incompetence in office continues to be excused, rewarded, or ignored - we will get an unending stream of incompetent decisions leading to some really predictable outcomes - such as that 12.5% unemployment rate.

    Your takeaway: "There is more to assessing the quality of a politician's policy choices than just corona virus hospitalization numbers."

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 5:14am

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Grateful not to be caught up in retail level politics

    Man, I sure do pity people caught up in retail level politics.  Looks awful.

    Nothing makes sense, you have to overlook ghastly things in your preferred party to demonize the other (with the exact same antics) and, worst of all, you have to forget stuff that happened literally last week in order to ingest today's talking points.

    In other words, its a place of enforced low integrity.  You have to abandon logic, reason, and consistency in order to play ball with one side or the other.

    I can only imagine the ridiculous amount of mental fortifications necessary to keep all that bullshit at bay.  Must be exhausting, physically and mentally.

    I feel fortunate to be able to make up my own mind and not have to adopt somebody else's ever-shifting narratives which, truthfully, are almost never in service to myself or my fellow citizens and nearly always in service to that other person's personal fortunes and sense of power.

    This thread is a great reminder for yet another thing I have to be grateful for in my life.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 6:20am

    Prep101

    Prep101

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    4

    Superficially both parties look radically different, but at the core they pursue the same agenda

    Chris said:

    Man, I sure do pity people caught up in retail level politics.  Looks awful.

    Nothing makes sense, you have to overlook ghastly things in your preferred party to demonize the other (with the exact same antics) and, worst of all, you have to forget stuff that happened literally last week in order to ingest today's talking points.

    In other words, its a place of enforced low integrity.  You have to abandon logic, reason, and consistency in order to play ball with one side or the other.

    I could not agree more:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynVqPnMQ2sI

    It is indeed time to leave retail politics behind and pursue your own goals.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 7:20am

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

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    8

    Retail level politics seems to have caught quite a few of us

    I must say I've been watching this thread with fascination at how (IMHO), numerous long-time members (and some newcomers) have gotten caught up in retail level politics and the forces that are working, consciously or unconsciously to deepen the divide.  What follows is my best assessment and opinion, but here is what I think I've seen:

    • Baseless accusations, that while not out of the question, clearly have at most scant circumstantial evidence supporting them (troll and esp. paid troll accusations).
    • Lecturing others from a perspective of superiority.
    • Not responding to counter claims and instead choosing to change the subject to one's personal claims or attacking the messenger.
    • cherry picking evidence to support one's perspective.

    I know it's tempting and gets more ingrained the deeper we go.  I've done it myself plenty of times, including quite recently.  I also see, in my opinion, truth in both sides of the argument - and - a larger truth that is outside the box defined by this divisive thinking.

    I've only watched the first 12 and a half minutes of this video so far, but I've found it very helpful in giving perspective about what is going on.  I urge everyone to try to hold their own beliefs and ideas about what the problem is and how to fix it a bit more loosely and to focus on trying to understand those you've been butting heads with rather than trying to argue them down.  I think that more dialog and less arguing, even if it's insufficient to stop the wave of what is washing over our collective consciousness right now, can help to create pockets of understanding and places where the real work of both rebuilding and protecting what is being built from the storm can start in earnest even before the wave has hit the high water mark on the beach and washed back out to sea.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 7:34am

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Money Quote from Schmachtenberger

    "If there are whole chunks of populations that you only have pejorative strawman versions of, where you can't explain why they think what they think without making them dumb or bad, you should be dubious of your own modeling."

    - Daniel Schmachtenberger

    That's very politely stated.  🙂

    I truly like how he thinks and speaks.  I also believe that this project being conducted here in Chester MA is all about creating a physical manifestation of 'sensemaking' where the actions align with the words, and both can be scratched at quite deeply without falling apart.

    In other words, a place of deep  integrity.

     

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 8:06am

    Jim H

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    10

    Pejorative strawman versions?

    Is it pejorative to say that approximately half the nation lives in a deeply propagandized state?

    One thing we all have to be able to agree upon is that there are two almost completely opposing narratives in place - the one I see evidence of, i.e. that Trump, for all his faults, is in fact trying to save us from an entrenched, globally-backed deep state that has used it's power to try to destroy him at every turn.  The other which tells us that this is all just a right wing conspiracy and Trump is everything we should hate;  racist, dumb, dangerous, killer of American's through pandemic mismanagement, etc.

    There really is no middle ground and I don't think it helps when good hearted folks like Quercus try to play peace maker.  I think we are in an existential moment in this election.  If you can't see the actions of the Globalist Deep State through the lens of hydroxychloroquine, Trump's efforts to bring it to our attention, and it's suppression, then you are just too deeply propagandized and the wall of cognitive dissonance that has been implanted in your brain by the mass media is just too high.

    I understand the desire to pull back from the ugly fray and work on and in that small world that we can control... but for me I am not going to be able to live with myself if we lose the country to the globalist monster and I just sat there on the sidelines, afraid to engage in "retail level politics".

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 8:46am

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

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    Posts: 2190

    4

    peacemakers

    Oh I like QB a great deal.  He's awesome.  He can play peacemaker any day as far as I'm concerned.

    And if those trolls (you know who you are!) stick around long after the election is over, and continue contributing at the same rate they are now on a wide variety of non-election topics thereby proving me wrong, why, I'll be happy to eat humble pie and buy him a nice glass of wine at the next PP get together once the nation has herd immunity and the civil war is over and we are all able to use HCQ as prophylaxis and we're relaxing in the summer in wine country at Adam's ranch in Sebastopol.

    There.  Doesn't that sound nice?  And peaceful?

    Too many conditions?  🙂

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 8:49am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

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    6

    STEALING: Retail Level Politics

    In 13 years of on again off again reading here, that is the best I have read. The Honey Badger moniker is cute but does not even come close to "Retail Level Politics" . That phrase will now become a permanent member in good standing in my lexicon, especially now in the silly season.

    OMG I just realized I used the word stealing and politics in the same sentence. Must have been a Freudian slip.

    The image of "retail" automatically creates its corollary. That being wholesale. Wholesale politics is actually that practiced by those who can afford to buy a few senators, congress people etc. I don't think any of those people are here. Retail is expensive and wholesale is cheap. Ex. The people of NY. may have some thoughts on how things should go, that is retail. Wholesale is Eric Schmidt and Bill Gates telling Cuomo how things should go.

    Show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk&t=15s

    I have found great comfort and peace in my life when I realized there are no political solutions to the human condition, and moved to the woods 50 years ago. My biggest problems became ticks, chiggers, copperheads, rattlesnakes, brown recluse spiders, cabbage worms, stink bugs, japanese beetles, too much rain, not enough rain and a whole host of other things. Clearly I made the right choice. Much better to deal with all of that than the three professors of politics.

    The solution to the human condition is a spiritual one. It is holding everything sacred. It is realizing we are living on an amazing spaceship with everything we need to live an abundant life. The only thing we need to do is love it and nurture it.

    Bottom line "fuck politics" go plant a fucking tree. That will change the world.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 8:57am

    BillV

    BillV

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    Great quote

    Thanks, I'll have to share this one:

    "If there are whole chunks of populations that you only have pejorative strawman versions of, where you can't explain why they think what they think without making them dumb or bad, you should be dubious of your own modeling."

    - Daniel Schmachtenberger

    I love how the very next comment proved his point right on cue, lol!

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 9:01am

    2retired

    2retired

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    3

    retail politics

    I always think of a quote from Adlai Stevenson; who after a rousing speech was greeted by someone's congratulatory support "now every thinking man in America will vote for you". His response supposedly was "God I hope not, I will loose the election".....and he did.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 9:18am

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 435

    5

    About peace making

    First, looking at my last post, even with those hedging by being clear that it was my opinion, there was definitely some criticism and "being right" not so well hidden in my peacemaking language.

    Dave and Jim - I really think you are right, but that is only part of the story.  From my perspective, there are much more fundamental flaws and predicaments that Trump's politics do not address or even acknowledge plus Trump has his own authoritarian thread running.  I also think the issue discussed by Schmachtenberger in those first 12 minutes are fundamental.  If we don't now how to listen to each other and come to understand each other's perspective, even if there is propaganda clouding things, we've already lost our democracy.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 9:38am

    Redneck Engineer

    Redneck Engineer

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    2

    Putrid Political Pundits

    ... would be better known as whine sellers.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 12:30pm

    sand_puppy

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    11

    Wanting to deeply understand people with other viewpoints

    In Spiral Dynamics language, the capacity to hold one viewpoint and at the same time have a deep, rich and respectful understanding of another person with an opposite viewpoint, is described as "Second Tier" thinking.

    Moving from first to second tier thinking is a momentous leap in cognitive capacity.  In the US and western Europe, it is estimated that only 5% of the population is second tier.

    I have tried to introduce the idea of respecting and hearing opposing viewpoints on my facebook page, but it has flopped spectacularly.

    My first tier friends show up, assert the absolute rightness of their viewpoint, and beg others to "wake up" to the rightness of their viewpoint.  They just cannot hold multiple perspectives with respect, simultaneously.

    Sigh.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 1:22pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

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    Quercus bicolor said:

    From about 7:30 to 12:30 in the video I embedded in post 181, Daniel Schmactenberger describes how both Athenian and post European Enlightenment democracies were able to operate.  He suggests that a large portion of the population was able to engage in second tier thinking as you describe it either through widely available classical Athenian education or post Renaissance education.  From your post, I guess that you don't agree with him and I find myself doubting him too.

    If Schmactenberger was wrong, what allowed these societies to operate at least somewhat democratically?   Perhaps it was a relatively convergence of interests among disparate parts of society?  This could possibly be enabled when society prospers and there is plenty to go around.  Perhaps limiting participation to the educated classes was another factor?

    If he was right, what changed both in Classical and Modern times that brought this period to an end?

    Of course, both possibilities could be involved.  Furthermore, prosperous society would create the stability that would allow a larger fraction of the population to be educated and enlightened enough to participate thoughtfully in democracy.  This last point, makes the truth or falsehood of Schmactenberger's perspective less clear-cut as there is at least one positive feedback loop that can push in the direction of his view.

    I wonder if there is a self reinforcing cycle in which prosperous times allow democratic governance due to convergence of interests, more widely available education, and stability which allows people to function further towards the top of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.  A reversal from prosperity to hardship inevitably occurs and has the opposite effect in which democratic governance breaks down and a more autocratic and tribalistic/nationalistic (depending on scale) governance replaces it.

    If I'm correct here, perhaps there is no point in fighting the trend.  A more fruitful approach will be to build an alternative at whatever scale you can manage that values functioning at a higher level and tries to stay under the radar of the autocratic and/or violent movements that sweep through society.

    I think a certain proprietor of this site is doing just that.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 1:38pm

    SagerXX

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Feb 11 2009

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    Quercus said:

    "If I'm correct here, perhaps there is no point in fighting the trend.  A more fruitful approach will be to build an alternative at whatever scale you can manage that values functioning at a higher level and tries to stay under the radar of the autocratic and/or violent movements that sweep through society."

     

    Precisely.  I'll be in the garden (hidden in the jungle...down a long and bone-rattling dirt road), working side-by-side with like-minded people.  I'll come back out when all the screaming stops.

    VIVA -- Sager

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 1:47pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

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    2

    Quercus bicolor said:

    Or perhaps your grandchildren will come out when all the screaming stops.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 2:01pm

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

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    7

    Second tier example

    The beloved Buddhist teacher Thick Nhat Hanh, age 93, is seriously ill.  Many followers are posting his words, honoring his life, loving and praying for him.

    This quote is a beautiful example of second tier thinking, (probably Turquoise vMeme, the "harmony meme").

    When we beat each other around the head and neck verbally to force the other into the "right viewpoint," we have a first tier discussion.    It is almost never helpful.

    Only when someone stops to really listen does understanding begin.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 2:20pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Mar 19 2008

    Posts: 435

    5

    And that is the root of my frustation with this thread ...

    I point towards a second tier discussion (i.e. peacemaking) and I get responses from people I respect suggesting this case is special, there is propaganda everywhere and that we really need to ensure that we have outcome DT or JB occurs this fall or we will lose our republic (well, DT in this case).

    I'm going to work on wrapping my brain around your 5% second tier estimate and work towards acceptance.

    Sigh.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 2:40pm

    drbost

    drbost

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    Support for #190 and #194

    Sand_Puppy,  thank you for pointing this out!  It's so important especially in these tumultuous times.

    Ongoing psychological research solidly supports Carl Rogers' assertion that the listener's extending accurate empathy (understanding the other person's perspective), unconditional positive regard (acceptance and affirmation; note: not necessarily agreement with) , and genuineness are the foundation of healing in interpersonal relationships.  Listening with these qualities is the foundation of helping the other person to consider other points of view later on.  Debating without this foundation only stiffens resistance to other viewpoints.

    It takes a lot of effort and persistence to do the work of effective listening.  And the results are often slow, very slow, to take root.  They may not ever become apparent to the listener.  But they are so important to growing compassion in our relationships.

    The guidance that you are pointing to is so important to those who are interested in developing community.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 3:40pm

    MKI

    MKI

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    Second tier thinking

    I have tried to introduce the idea of respecting and hearing opposing viewpoints on my facebook page, but it has flopped spectacularly.

    There is various ways to look at this. I seek opposing viewpoints as there is no easier way to learn new things. However, I rarely "respect" said viewpoints because they are almost always wrong. That's OK; finding that rare gem is worth slugging through the mountain of slag.

    Moving from first to second tier thinking is a momentous leap in cognitive capacity. In the US and western Europe, it is estimated that only 5% of the population is second tier.

    This is a truism. Most people simply don't have the IQ for rational, mathematical thought (and also simply don't need it, living in groups as humans do). In fact, genetic diversity requires that most humans be measurably dumber than the above average on the bell curve (as with any genetic trait like height and running speed). It's my obsession to find many people who are smarter than myself, suck them dry, and to simply ignore the rest when it comes to seeking truth.

    ...assert the absolute rightness of their viewpoint, and beg others to "wake up"

    Why not merely note the absolute rightness of  what is most true without emotionally attaching oneself, or caring if others change?  Those remaining stubbornly ignorant merely means more opportunity for those with a more accurate view of reality. We see this in investing every day; money flows to reality. All one can do? Calmly tell the truth and let the chips fall. Fact: nobody can fix stupid. Just like nobody can teach the vast majority of us to dunk a basketball. This is just reality.

    And, of course, the corollary follows: if I cannot consistently make accurate predictions about the world (measurable as success over my lifetime) then it is highly unlikely my viewpoints have a factual/rational basis, no matter how much I obsess or argue over my "truth". Those who are so sure they are right? Be aware that there will be an exam at the end of the day, with reality as the judge. Still so eager to "argue" viewpoints rather than test them against the ideas of others humbly seeking reality?

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 6:07pm

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

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    Posts: 2442

    8

    Looking beneath the position statement to hear the unspoken needs, fears, desires

    I had a legendary "facebook fight" with a relative about whether "the state" should forcibly vaccinate children for measles against their family's will.  (Several hundred measles cases  were present in the USA at that time.)  The "other person" (OP) advocated for forced vaccinations to keep everyone safe.

    Rather than listen to what was happening deep in OPs heart, I argued against her position.  (I came from my own fears without consciousness.)   Everything went to hell and the relationship was damaged by hostile words, words that were never forgotten.

    Later I came to understand that OP was a new mother, and she was afraid that her children would be harmed by measles.  This was the heart and soul of her concern.  She wanted to protect her beloved children.

    If I could have heard her at this level, the conversation would have gone very differently.  At this level, I could have sided with her as I wanted her children to be safe, too.   This could have been the foundation of our meeting.  Our shared concern for her children's safety.

    Listening to her deeper meaning (which was not explicitly spoken) would have changed everything.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 6:50pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

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    2

    A Diamond in a Coal Field

    QB thank you for posting that video. It was exquisite. Daniel is an interesting man. I would love to hang out with him. He is homeschooled and got his BA from Maharishi University. Not the typical career path.

    His thinking is quite an original synthesis of some of the greatest modern day thinkers. Watching that video was like getting a breath of fresh air after spending a lifetime in a public toilet in India. lol.

    As others have mentioned (esp SP) deep listening is a critical piece of the puzzle. Most people that I have encountered (myself included at times) are formulating a response rather than listening. Amazingly that happens all the time on the internet where you can actually take as much time to respond as you wish.

    Quite a few threads ago I mentioned to Mots the usefulness of Dialog in community. Clearly Daniel is a master. Rarely does one encounter another being that is as clear as he is. He spoke for an hour and a half in great detail and yet I don't think he had any notes to draw from. Almost 200 comments deep of a coal field to find that diamond. Wow.

    Dialog and Deep listening are really easy if you are curious.

    I will be following him closely from now on.

    That's my narrative and I may or may not stick to it, and I certainly won't fight to the death to defend it.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 6:50pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

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    Posts: 435

    2

    Different goals?

    MKI,

    If I'm not mistaken, your post is about trying to synthesize a prediction or other actionable information through listening to others in order to forward your own or a groups agenda. Am I correct?

    I (and others, I think?) are intending to build relationship through mutual understanding so that we might avert the negative outcomes that stem from cold or hot warfare between groups that don't understand each other and therefore come to "hate" each other.  Another goal would be to build flourishing community or as Chris has said, a world worth inheriting.  What do you think of those goals?

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 7:51pm

    Snydeman

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 06 2013

    Posts: 616

    5

    Yeah, so...

    As I read a lot of comments on this thread, two things strike me.

     

    1) That so many people still think it will matter whether Red or Blue team wins elections.

     

    2) That I took a vacation from this type of stuff for a good reason, and I should extend said vacation.

     

    Good day, all. Keep thinking Trump or Biden will save you.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 10:17pm

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2190

    11

    tier 2 and planned sociopathy

    QB,SP-

    So how do these techniques work with sociopathy?

    And those who come on a mission of planned conversion/disruption?

    Hold that thought.

    I think it is entirely likely that a fairly large number of us could get together and forge a consensus on a large number of issues that we all share, independently of our  Pro-Trump or Anti-Trump or Dont-Care-About-Trump positions.

    I also think that's the larger issue too.  There are forces at play that do not want us to come together, and are actively seeking to divide us so we don't come together.

    If you want to continue the harvesting operation, then you do not want your victims (both "left" and "right") to agree that the harvesting is something unfortunate.  Far better they fight over the few things that divide them.

    So you send in the sociopaths and the paid missionaries to divide everyone.

    I think your "second Tier" stuff works fine on the 98%.  I think it won't work at all on those 2%.

    What do you think about this thesis?  If true, it would seem that we have to deal with the 2% differently?  Or - not?

    Bottom line: not everyone comes from a genuine place.  Most do, but a critical 2% do not.  (The number 2% is pulled from my you-know-where)

    And my last point - I am an engineer by training and practice.  One of my flaws is that I jump right into solving problems.  This comes up most often in conversations with my high empathy sister.  When she has some issue, I'll listen to her for a few minutes, and I'll figure out what the "bug" is, and a fix will come to mind.  Bug-fixing is what I do, so...

    Sadly, this doesn't work for her.  She first needs to be listened to.  Not for a few minutes either!  So after - several - decades at this - I can now take a deep breath, save my fix for later, and do the listening part first.  For her the healing is about getting it all out; a premature bugfix presentation won't be received nearly as well.

    But its hard!  Cuz I have the fix!  :). I digress.

    So back to sociopathy.  Sociopaths seem to require different rules.  I get the strong sense that they'd view Tier 2 thinking as a pathway to take advantage of you, your energy, and the situation.

    I think it totally works for the 98% though.  FWIW.

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  • Fri, Oct 09, 2020 - 11:25pm

    MKI

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    MKI said:

    ...your post is about trying to synthesize a prediction/actionable information through listening to others in order to forward your own agenda. Am I correct?

    I think my motive is a bit different; Note I was replying to Sand Puppy's concern how conflict often follows folk who "assert the absolute rightness of their viewpoint, and beg others to "wake up".  I agreed and offered a solution by having appropriate relationships via seeking areas of agreement whilst letting areas of disagreement alone once they are found lacking a basis in reality. I agree this is not the only possible solution, I merely think the the best in a world of various intelligence and values.

    I (and others, I think?) are intending to build relationship through mutual understanding so that we might avert the negative outcomes that stem from cold or hot warfare between groups that don't understand each other and therefore come to "hate" each other.

    I think this a fine sentiment. My solution is at tad different; I simply don't engage in warfare at all, nor hate anyone. I honestly seek to understand the other person's position and learn from it. If I do, that's great! If after careful consideration I find the person to be wrong and not open to reality I merely offer polite feedback and exit. There are plenty of smart & non-hostile people who are trying to learn to converse with all over the web. I feel zero need to push my views on another or create a community with anybody. Note I have no hard feelings at all for those who feel otherwise, and I wish them luck.

    Another goal would be to build flourishing community or as Chris has said, a world worth inheriting. What do you think of those goals?

    Building a community on the web is not my personal goal (I prefer real life for that), but I certainly do not begrudge anyone doing so. To each his own. Regarding the goal of "a world worth inheriting", who could disagree with that? It sounds great, but actually agreeing on what that world looks like? Tall order, methinks.

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  • Sat, Oct 10, 2020 - 7:07am

    Chris Martenson

    Chris Martenson

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    Creating A World Worth Inheriting

    Regarding the goal of "a world worth inheriting", who could disagree with that? It sounds great, but actually agreeing on what that world looks like? Tall order, methinks.

    Not really, not if we apply the principles from above.

    Is there anything we can all agree on?  How about we'd prefer to live on a planet that has a functioning ecosystem that supports us, rather than is trying to kill us because it has become too erratic or hot or vital ecosystems have collapsed and now, say, the rain forests are savannas instead?

    Or wishing to live in a safe place where violence is not part of daily life?  I think we could all agree on that.

    How about we eat good, nutritious food, that tastes great?

    Having amazing experiences in life that are satisfying and nourishing?  While we will each have our own view of that, none of us can pursue those unless the basic conditions at the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of need are securely in place.

    I truly believe there are a lot of 'first principle' things that everybody can agree on.

    Why not start there?

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  • Sat, Oct 10, 2020 - 9:27am

    MKI

    MKI

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    Not really, not if we apply the principles from above.

    I truly believe there are a lot of 'first principle' things that everybody can agree on. Why not start there?

    I agree, but only by avoiding the specifics/details regarding our 'first principles' we can all (seemingly) agree. But cracks appear when we actually do anything (say drill an oil well or start a family or cook a meal). Then, our 'first principle' concept is shown to be wildly insufficient. Even in your examples above of seemingly obvious agreements consider the wide opinions on what part mankind has in a 'functioning ecosystem' (mining? energy? human activity?) or even what is 'nutritious food' (heh, even my wife and I, who share more 'first principles' than we do with anyone else, can't quite agree on that one!).

    I'm not nitpicking here. I'm merely re-articulating my original statement you disagree with: regarding the goal of "a world worth inheriting", who could disagree with that? It sounds great, but actually agreeing on what that world looks like? Tall order, methinks.

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  • Sat, Oct 10, 2020 - 9:39am

    Quercus bicolor

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    Quercus bicolor said:

    Building a community on the web is not my personal goal.

    Not my main goal either.  I was referring to a real on the ground project face to face and with land and buildings.

    And regarding your responses to the first two quotes from my post.  Thank you for that.  We are much more in alignment with our goals than I thought.

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  • Sat, Oct 10, 2020 - 9:49am

    Quercus bicolor

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    cracks and consensus

    But cracks appear when we actually do anything.

    That is especially true given that most of us we have lived our entire lives in a world of fossil fuel driven material abundance where we can have most anything we want and are not dependent on community for immediate survival needs (or at least it appears that way).  We've gotten used to having our way, for example, our specific food preferences selected from a vast array of available foods, many prepared and packaged conveniently.

    Creating functioning community where everyone is interdependent but not of like mind on many issues will take real work, given where we're all coming from.

    But, from my perspective, what else is there to do?  We've seen the price of living the way we have been living to the biosphere, to our psyches, to our physical health, in a tangled web of dysfunction, disconnection and trauma.  AND the abundance is likely going away if not in the next few years or decades, in the lifetimes of our children.

    What more important work is there than learning to live once again as humans have lived from deep time until very recently (or now in some places), especially when human thriving or perhaps even survival depends on it?

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  • Sat, Oct 10, 2020 - 8:03pm

    sofistek

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    What does it look like?

    Regarding the goal of "a world worth inheriting", who could disagree with that? It sounds great, but actually agreeing on what that world looks like? Tall order, methinks.

    I took MKI's point as something different from how Chris took it. Yes, most would agree with the goals Chris stated as examples. But I think the point was how would a world that had achieved those goals (leaving aside, for now, the route to get there) operate?

    This is a question I've struggled with for years. Long before civilisation, out species existed as part of climax or oscillating ecosystems, low enough in numbers to move around if/when our local ecosystem deteriorated too much. But, today, most people seem to want a technological society with lots of possessions and the opportunity to improve our standards of living. They want to live in places that would be inhospitable without modern technology and buildings. They want to accumulate possessions, to varying degrees. And so on. How would a sustainable future (any unsustainable future is a dead end) compare with how we live today, even in fairly poor societies?

    Sustainability means not consuming any resource beyond its renewal rate and not damaging the biosphere in that consumption. I just can't envision how such a future differs from the distant past but would love to have alternative suggestions.

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  • Sat, Oct 10, 2020 - 11:00pm

    agitating prop

    agitating prop

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    Sofistek and First Principles.

    Agreed Sofistek, Once you drill down past a superficial comprehension of first principles it gets really hard to work through with other people. One of my first principles is I feel people have a right to revolt if they are being mistreated by the police, due to their ethnicity. Most people will at least say they agree with that, but they don't follow through by listening to what the problems actually are. They are very quick to blow the very real problems of blacks, for instance, off. Or to ignore the fact that their lack of concern or out and out bigotry is being successfully manipulated by social media.

    How do you get past this very real problem involving what should be a first principle?

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  • Sun, Oct 11, 2020 - 5:25am

    davefairtex

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    8

    the narrative to divide the working class

    AP-

    One of my first principles is I feel people have a right to revolt if they are being mistreated by the police, due to their ethnicity

    The race thing is the go-to selection for the elites who use this, among many other typical politics-of-division, to divide the working class into groups so that they fight one another.  Same thing with issues such as "abortion", "prayer in schools", "transgender bathrooms", and so on.

    So instead of playing their game, how about we focus on universal healthcare, cheap drugs from Canada, reducing immigration to improve working people's wages, basic ID requirements for employment, bringing our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan and Syria, no more regime change wars of choice in the middle east, eliminating the surveillance state, and getting money out of politics.  Maybe term limits too.

    None of these things will divide the working class.  Most people agree on these items.  They will lift the standard of living for everyone.  And it will reduce the gap between rich and poor.

    If you fall into the trap of the elites, you'll focus on the politics of division.  You will be - what do they call it - a useful idiot?  I forget the term.  I'm not much of a revolutionary.

    My suggestion: don't focus on the divisive issues.  The media's job is to stoke the division.  Red media is told to say: "it's not happening", and blue media is told to say: "crime of the century", the working class dutifully fights each other, while the elites are laughing from the sidelines at our stupidity at falling for it one more time.

    Just my perspective.

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  • Sun, Oct 11, 2020 - 5:39am

    thc0655

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    5

    Like this Dave?

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  • Sun, Oct 11, 2020 - 6:15am

    davefairtex

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    5

    needs updating

    Replace the hammer and sickle with the AMAZON corporate logo, with Jeff Bezos as the guy with the big full plate, and you'll have it nailed.

    Every time the local neighborhood shops get looted, burned, or destroyed, somewhere Jeff Bezos is laughing.

    Cuomo and DeBlasio, with all their "COVID" business restrictions, have destroyed - what - 33% of local business in New York City?

    For sure they have board seats waiting for them at Amazon HQ.

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  • Sun, Oct 11, 2020 - 6:21am

    JAG

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    Creating a World Worth Inheriting

    Here is a video I made more than 10 years ago for Dr. M's message. It was a total fail back then and it gave old people seizures, lol. Nothing has changed in 10 years.

    I can't believe that YouTube didn't erase it.

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  • Sun, Oct 11, 2020 - 7:20am

    Prep101

    Prep101

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    socalled "elites" are dividing & conquering the people by means of the red vs blue team

    davefairtex said:

    There are forces at play that do not want us to come together, and are actively seeking to divide us so we don't come together.

    If you want to continue the harvesting operation, then you do not want your victims (both "left" and "right") to agree that the harvesting is something unfortunate.  Far better they fight over the few things that divide them.

    So you send in the sociopaths and the paid missionaries to divide everyone.

    I agree. I think this cartoon sums it up pretty well in one picture:

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  • Sun, Oct 11, 2020 - 9:35am

    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

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    4

    "Listening to her deeper meaning (which was not explicitly spoken) would have changed everything."

    This is only somewhat related but I think about it a lot:

    I heard the term "best practices" in a corporate setting (ie, "We use best practices") and I dismissed it as meaningless business jargon:

    "Oh really, you do things 'best' at this company? Why didn't anyone else think of that?"

     

    Then I read Charles Hugh Smith's book Why The Status Quo Failed and he was getting into the problems that globalization causes for workers in terms of driving wages down.   He offered that one solution was to use that same global system (mostly the internet) to bring "best practices" to everything you do.

     

    Of course!    If your wages are always deflating in real terms because of that arbitrage you need to be able to do more with less and if you are willing to swallow your pride and put in a bit of effort you really can find ways to raise chickens (or whatever) about 10x more effectively than you can if left to your own devices.

     

    For me this was just the most recent example of not listening to something and then realizing later that there is something behind it even if the first guy who told you about it might have really been clueless.

     

    Anyway, in both this and sand_puppy's earlier example, there is that "shut up and listen" aspect that most of us fail at most of the time.

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  • Sun, Oct 11, 2020 - 12:44pm

    agitating prop

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    agitating prop said:

    Dave,

    I appreciate your point of view and agree for the most part. I would like to see white people take very real problems in the criminal justice system and policing much more seriously though--even just to learn more about what is happening there. Much of it breaks down along class lines, but where visible minorities are involved it breaks down by appearance too. Once they are caught up in the criminal justice system it is darned near impossible to get out. They are living the nightmare that white people fear might happen to them, as a group, under "globalism" etc..

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  • Sun, Oct 11, 2020 - 2:29pm

    sofistek

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    Surfaces, Czechia

    New research (no link to the data, unfortunately) shows the virus can remain viable for up to 28 days on some surfaces.

    Czechia (the Czech Republic) is doing very badly now with a big surge in cases. The article says 7% don't wear masks at all but nothing is said about how strictly the other 93% stick to the rules.

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  • Sun, Oct 11, 2020 - 2:35pm

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Happy Thanksgiving from Canada....

    I am thankful for all I have learned here at PP in the last ten or so years, and for all the commentators, even those who rub me the wrong way at times, who helped me to learn to think differently and re-shape my perspectives accordingly. Changing our perspectives is never easy, but I have changed some of mine as a result of the many in depth conversations that have take place here over the years. For than I am grateful, and a better person too - thank you!

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  • Mon, Oct 12, 2020 - 2:08am

    davefairtex

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    and this is why we remain divided and powerless

    AP-

    I appreciate your point of view and agree for the most part. I would like to see white people take very real problems in the criminal justice system and policing much more seriously though--even just to learn more about what is happening there. Much of it breaks down along class lines, but where visible minorities are involved it breaks down by appearance too. Once they are caught up in the criminal justice system it is darned near impossible to get out. They are living the nightmare that white people fear might happen to them, as a group, under "globalism" etc..

    Perfect!

    The same impassioned plea can be made for believers in "life" too.  They really, really don't like abortion.

    "While I appreciate your point of view and agree with the most part, I would like to see everyone affirm that the life of the unborn be taken seriously..." with the rest of the paragraph talking about how wrong it is to kill babies.

    Each and every time you place your focus on division, even while starting out "appreciating" my point of view of "collective struggle", it is a win for the elites.

    "Yes.  I agree all these issues are divisive and counterproductive. Now lets spend the rest of the time talking some more about how YOU need to agree that I'm right about MY elite-sponsored divisive issue!"

    Who wins?  Duh.  The elites.  Once more.

    This conversation really is a fascinating case study.  Even though you agree for the most part, and you're a smart person, and you really can see it all, you just can't stop focusing on the division.  Apparently, this is a common malady.  We are all right, we all believe in our divisive causes, even though we know at some level that our collective focus on the group of divisive causes will doom us all to servitude in the plantations of the bosses.

    We just can't help ourselves.  We just want to win because our specific cause is so right.

    And that's why things are the way they are.

    We will only win when we release our own cause for the cause of the greater group.  We have power in numbers - but we only get that if we unify left and right.

    Thanks for participating in the study.  🙂

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  • Mon, Oct 12, 2020 - 4:21am

    sand_puppy

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    One thing AP did not do was ...

    ... project "badness" onto someone with whom she disagrees.  Her words and tone were respectful of your beingness, even as she advocated for a different viewpoint.

    Big pat on the back for civil and constructive communication style.

    (Though maybe her attention did follow the elite's guidance by focusing on the designated wedge issue of this election season.)

    One way to bring this closer to the heart is to use "I messages" something like

    "I have several good friends who are black and it breaks my heart to see their young men get caught up into lives of petty crime and frequent arrests, recurrent prison and sentences.  I see this destroying the families of people that I care about."

     

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  • Mon, Oct 12, 2020 - 6:32am

    Quercus bicolor

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    conversation style can "unwedge a wedge issue"?

    Nice point SP.  Perhaps you're getting a way of talking about "wedge issues" that remove the wedginess from them.  And who wants a wedgy?

    Let's look at this a bit closer and see if it's true:

    1. "Throw the blanket".  State your good intentions and apologize in advance if your words or writing offend someone or propose a solution that harms them. Invite them to give feedback and assure them you will be open to it.
    2. Try to understand why others might feel differently than you.
    3. Don't villify anyone, just talk about your concerns.  Without blame, the tendency of your words to cause people with different perspectives to feel "othered" will be significantly reduced.
    4. Control your emotional charge.  Keep self-righteous anger in particular, out of it.  Express emotions directly: "I am (emotion) because ..."  An the because should be about real problems you see, preferably experienced directly by yourself or people you know, not some flaw with the "other side".
    5. Propose solutions gently.  Make sure they are designed as best you can determine with everyone's benefit in mind.  Don't be attached to your solution.  Ask for concerns and suggestions to modify the solution or throw it out in favor of something else.
    6. Don't get attached to an issue. Attachment can lead to flaring tempers and a wedge creating conversation style.  Understand that while your concerns may be very important, there might be other fundamental issues to which more resources should be devoted because they exacerbate problems in many areas, possibly including your issue.  They might also create environments unfavorable to solving any problem or create a much bigger problem "We're all poor serfs of the elites"  rather than "there are significant wealth inequalities between whites and nonwhites".

    Suggestions?  Concerns?  Am I dreaming wildly?

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  • Mon, Oct 12, 2020 - 7:08am

    2retired

    2retired

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    2retired said:

    Sounding like a Buddhist. (an aspirational orientation for me, though I fall short). A great read 'Why Buddism is true' by Robert Wright. one of 2 books I have reread more than 3 times; the other one 'Islands in the stream' by Hemmingway

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  • Mon, Oct 12, 2020 - 8:40am

    Doug

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    QB

    "And who wants a wedgy?"

    Good line.

    "Don't get attached to an issue."

    I think your approach to resolving issues is generally good for issues that aren't really important or the sides aren't too separated, like what color do you want to paint the living room or which contractor should we hire to do a job.  However, there are many exceptions.  For instance, if no one became attached to some issues we would be living in a much different world and in most ways much worse.  Like, only people like me (white property owning male) would be able to vote.  Slavery would still be institutionalized.  The British would still be in control.  Hitler would have overrun Europe and perhaps much more.  You get the idea.  There are some issues worth fighting and dying for.  How do you decide which is which?  What principles do you stand for?  Where do you draw the line?  Even discussing those questions will rouse passions.

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  • Mon, Oct 12, 2020 - 10:14am

    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    Issues worth fighting and dying for cannot be generalized

    Doug: Lol I have seen people get divorced over paint colours, contractors and renovations. Probably not a good analogy to use...

    I also posit that one cannot say what is or is not worth fighting or dying for except only as it may apply to their particular life and belief system. For example, readers here know I am passionate about accessibility. Many, especially those who have no vested interest or are not impacted by discrimination and barriers to participation in all aspects of their lives may not think it is worth even commenting on, never mind fighting or dying over. In this example all I could do is try to encourage discussion and be as persuasive as possible about why it is in fact a life and death issue for millions, and how each person has a role to play in reducing discrimination. But lots of people may not ever come around to seeing my perspectives. C'est la vie. That does not mean we take that topic off the table and classify it as being a non-relevant life and death issue.

    Just about any given topic will matter deeply to someone, somewhere, and potentially be seen as worth fighting or dying over. This is why it is so important to have a diversity of topics for discussion as well as a diversity of voices in commentary so we can learn more about those other things, whatever they may be, and how they impact others.

    I believe it is called curiosity - a hugely under-cultivated value, from my perspective.

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  • Mon, Oct 12, 2020 - 10:36am

    davefairtex

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    softer approaches

    QB-

    Yeah I have to concur, softer approaches are more likely to be better received than the harder ones.

    Perhaps in addition to understanding better techniques, I might also find it useful to keep in mind what my goal is for my post.  What am I trying to achieve?

    Teachings for a turbulent time.

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  • Mon, Oct 12, 2020 - 11:55am

    000

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    0

    The Current logo is...

    TRUMP = "Make America White Again"

    And as per usual, the "black man" in the image doesn't get to say anything? That's the actual message of the MEME.

    Hammer = industrial labor (working class)
    Sickle = farm labor (working class)

    Bureaucrat in suit = politician

    It's all in the eye of the beholder... = the internet.

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  • Mon, Oct 12, 2020 - 1:12pm

    Doug

    Doug

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    Jan

    OK, I'll man the battlements for ecru.;^)

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  • Mon, Oct 12, 2020 - 1:21pm

    Quercus bicolor

    Status: Silver Member

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    5

    worth fighting an dying for

    Yes, some issues are worth fighting and dying for.

    But what are they?  And is a particular issue on that is worth fighting and dying for, or have I been manipulated to think it is by some powerful group using the tried and true divide and conquer strategy?

    I'm going to post this video again. I'm not 2/3 of the way through it.  I think it is very relevant to our conversation.

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  • Fri, Oct 16, 2020 - 8:32am

    tbp

    tbp

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    Jim H nailed it (sand_puppy too)!

    I'm a bit late to this party but here goes!

    @Jim H
    Is it pejorative to say that approximately half the nation lives in a deeply propagandized state?

    One thing we all have to be able to agree upon is that there are two almost completely opposing narratives in place - the one I see evidence of, i.e. that Trump, for all his faults, is in fact trying to save us from an entrenched, globally-backed deep state that has used it's power to try to destroy him at every turn. The other which tells us that this is all just a right wing conspiracy and Trump is everything we should hate; racist, dumb, dangerous, killer of American's through pandemic mismanagement, etc.

    There really is no middle ground and I don't think it helps when good hearted folks like Quercus try to play peace maker. I think we are in an existential moment in this election. If you can't see the actions of the Globalist Deep State through the lens of hydroxychloroquine, Trump's efforts to bring it to our attention, and it's suppression, then you are just too deeply propagandized and the wall of cognitive dissonance that has been implanted in your brain by the mass media is just too high.

    I understand the desire to pull back from the ugly fray and work on and in that small world that we can control... but for me I am not going to be able to live with myself if we lose the country to the globalist monster and I just sat there on the sidelines, afraid to engage in "retail level politics".

    Understanding/researching the information war we're all immersed in and the battlefield mechanics is, at the least, highly entertaining. Many people are still underestimating the pernicious influence of (previously quite hidden) carefully designed mind control programs designed to enslave humanity in a top-down technocratic-globalist central bankster supremacy system that ultimately only "benefits" the visible 0.01% and the invisible 0.00001%.

    Hey BillV, have a quick look at this:

    The key concept to understand is that the MSM is a weapon used against humanity, not just Trump. They are the #1 most powerful weapon as it allows them to control the most valuable resource on the planet: The Narrative. Watch for yourself how it’s all centrally controlled:

    As you can see, the MSM are really A SINGLE SOURCE, not many different sources.

    And that’s why 99% of what NPCs (MSM believers like BillV) believe about Trump is completely false. The MSM corporate legacy disinformation machine would never ever show you this:

    While at the same time they cover up Biden’s dementia:

    And even Biden's child molesting proclivities:

    If this doesn’t ENRAGE you, what would?

    BillV is the PERFECT example of what happens when an INTELLIGENT person blindly and foolishly believes the false narrative mind-control program from this dangerous cabal/criminal network, primarily centered around CNN/MSNBC/NYT/WaPo. These people with their outrageous lies and enslaving false narratives have become very dangerous to the mutual respect that underlies the peaceful co-existence of a healthy society.

    Did you guys see the Big Tech censors (the other major aspect of the cabal alongside the MSM) censoring the WH press secretary and DoJ? Chris did an EXCELLENT video about this:

    And what else might they be trying to hide that will likely come out?:

    Twitter even completely shut down in order to protect their candidate.

    If this isn't SHOCKING to your sense of freedom... what would be? How bad would it need to get? How do you stay on the sidelines when you see with your own eyes what's at stake?

    HOWEVER, this analysis is limited to a rather 3rd density perspective, or as @sand_puppy pointed out, a "first tier" perspective (that shifts upwards towards philosophical "anti-realism"/4th density/God-self innerstanding):

    In Spiral Dynamics language, the capacity to hold one viewpoint and at the same time have a deep, rich and respectful understanding of another person with an opposite viewpoint, is described as "Second Tier" thinking.

    Moving from first to second tier thinking is a momentous leap in cognitive capacity. In the US and western Europe, it is estimated that only 5% of the population is second tier.

    I have tried to introduce the idea of respecting and hearing opposing viewpoints on my facebook page, but it has flopped spectacularly.

    My first tier friends show up, assert the absolute rightness of their viewpoint, and beg others to "wake up" to the rightness of their viewpoint. They just cannot hold multiple perspectives with respect, simultaneously.

    Sigh.

    Here's a useful model of the spiral:

    Here's a simplified one that can't be embedded: https://miro.medium.com/max/1472/0*8nriAWjko8ZyfN19.

    I'd say I'm vibrating around the top 5 (of the 2nd image), with tolerance and respect for and hand-reaching to the lower altitudes when it's not resulting in highly harmful actions such as riots, looting, shaming behavior, calls for "reeducation camps"/gulag internment, and other Maoist insanity, and the more extreme expressions of neomarxist identity politics. But someone (an NPC) who is highly propagandized and perceiving me from "modern" (orange in this chart [we used to be able to "color-talk" until it became messed up, now you have to specify which color-talk system]) and especially "post modern"/right-brained (green, the most manipulated/mind-controlled arena), will perceive that I'm "traditional" (amber) and below.

    It's the usual epic battle of good vs. evil playing itself out in the battlefield of duality that we each came here to experience as adventurous, indestructible souls:

    What do I recommend the most? Avoid emotional attachments to ideas/events/outcomes. That's #1 right there, because it's the vibrational resonance of your emotions (measurable as your heart's electromagnetic field as HeartMath Institute has been doing) that determines the (simultaneously co-existing) parallel reality scenario you will experience, and there's no like/dislike in that, only vibrational likeness. Stay in a non-polarized non-dual 4th density mindset in balanced dharma.

    Helpful tools include: meditation, mindfulness, psychedelics (especially DMT, if you want to rapidly/instantaneously obliterate all physicalist notions you may have about the reality that you are [not inside of]), critical supplements (vitamin D, krill oil/DHA+EPA, magnesium, low-dose vitamin C and fat-soluble vitamins, super-antioxidants like curcumin and astaxanthin...), avoidance of heavy metals and other toxins (glyphosate/pesticides, aspartame/MSG, fluoride, etc etc), reduction of stress, nootropics that work for you, quitting all chronic drugs (including caffeine), periodic intermittent fasting, occasional prolonged fasting... and of course, above all else, TURN OFF TV (use it only to get a grip on what the NPCs are being told, avoid getting too upset).

    This is how it works (the only chart you really need, the ultimate practical secret, I've had it pasted on the wall for years):

    ^ That's your personal/individual spiral, which leads to encountering people of like vibration in your "reality tunnel" (as Robert Anton Wilson called it), which leads to your collective consciousness bubble ascending up the societal spiral described by Spiral Dynamics. Other collective consciousness bubbles will contain those individual souls that have chosen at the soul/disencarnate level(/phase space) to delve even deeper (for another Great Year?) into the darkness that has characterized the Earth game for eons.

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  • Thu, Oct 22, 2020 - 1:51pm

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 767

    1

    Study losing countries to support its hypothesis

    The study on low income countries seems to lose a country with each edit, now down to 10, from the 12 shown in Chris's video. And I would expect a few more to go with especially Kenya and Colombia now looking decidedly different from the modeled graph line.

    I'd be surprised if it gets past peer review but you never know these days. Science doesn't get done by cherry picking data.

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  • Tue, Oct 27, 2020 - 2:34am

    sofistek

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Oct 02 2008

    Posts: 767

    0

    Short lived immunity?

    This is not yet peer reviewed but Chris has already pointed to data suggesting that anti-bodies may last only a few months. This research supports that viewpoint. 95% of England's population may be susceptible to infection at any one time.

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  • Tue, Oct 27, 2020 - 2:01pm

    ResonantBoom

    ResonantBoom

    Status: Member

    Joined: Apr 08 2020

    Posts: 2

    0

    Question around Vitamin D

    Wondering if there is a recommended dosage daily/weekly due to the fact Vitamin D is fat soluble and remains in the body longer?  I have 10,000 IU bottle and have no real reference for how high that is (certainly feels like a high dosage).  Right now, I am taking the 10,000 IU once a week now that the sun has retired for the season.

     

    Thanks,

    Matt

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  • Tue, Oct 27, 2020 - 2:57pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 829

    0

    Vit D

    There is no one size fits all for how much to take.

    You need to get you blood level checked. (easy) then talk to a health care provider preferably a functional medical practitioner.

    Therapeutic level is 70, prophylaxis should be between 40 and 70

     

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