Saturday, April 4, 2020, 4:38 PM
In this video, Chris interviews expert virologist Dr. Angela Rasmussen, of the Center for Infection and Immunity at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health.
Chris and Dr. Rasmussen dive deep into the science of the covid-19 virus, what it does once in the body and what potential treatments show promise:
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132 Comments
Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 5:38pm
Kat43 said:
Excellent interview! I was surprised to hear that before the lockdown the R0 in China was considered to be between 2 and 3, and that China managed to push it below 1 which is how they eventually got it under control. I thought we were hearing that the R0 was as high as 7 and that China's draconian measures couldn't defeat it. I hope all of that is true.
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 5:56pm
Brilliant interview.
She is able to explain virology in an understandable way. I will watch this one again.
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 6:22pm
Ugh
Those dang bats! Guess I’m going to stop building bat houses.
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 6:31pm
Impressive and informative
Excellent guest - top questioning and interaction. Well done.
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 7:05pm
Masks
Her objection to masks were save them for HCP and incorrect usage. Well there are no masks for sale to the general public so saving them for HCP is a red herring. Improper usage reminded me of my luddite friend who did not want a cell phone because people in restaurants would sit there and use their phones the whole time, another red herring.
Then when it came to Hydroxychloroquine she cited the case in Arizona. Really?
Otherwise I thought she was well spoken and gave excellent answers to the good questions
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 7:12pm
BTW
There will never be studies on alternative therapies (ie alternative to big pharma) because studies cost a lot of money. That money comes either from big pharma or big government. Big government is a wholly owned subsidiary of big pharma. There is no big profit for either entity in studying alternative therapies which cannot be patented and can be produced by a lot of people for very low cost.
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 7:27pm
ACE-inhibitors and ARBs
I did not know until now that these medications upregulated ACE-2 receptors. In a general view this makes perfect sense now that I think about it. The gender differences in CV-19 disease has not made a whole lot of sense to me other than the fact that men have about a 10 year head start on cardiovascular disease than women. I take an ARB (Micardis) for mild high blood pressure. I’ve also intentionally lost 20 lbs. (from 200 to 180 lbs) over the past 2 months....down to a more healthy BMI of 24. Losing weight is probably the most effective thing the average person can do to lower their blood pressure via a non-pharmaceutical intervention. So, weighing my personal risks versus potential benefits I will no longer be taking Micardis given how important the ACE-2 receptors appear to be with Covid-19. I’m clearly *NOT* giving medical advice to others because everyone’s personal situation is different. For example, someone who has known cardiovascular disease and poorly controlled blood pressure should probably not stop taking these medications. Same thing goes for the those who have just have hypertension alone but is very poorly controlled. ACE inhibitors are extremely common and effective blood pressure medicines, and are one of the best class of medications in all of medicine. A majority of people with cardiovascular disease are on either an ACE inhibitor or an ARB as they not only have excellent anti-hypertensive properties, but also help treat heart failure via actual remodeling of the heart. Again, cardiovascular disease and hypertension are two of the most prevalent comorbidities associated with poor Covid-19 outcomes. To me, my instincts as a general internist for 17 years is that the upregulation of ACE-2 receptors is a much more likely explanation in the gender differences than increased narrowing in one’s arteries. Maybe I’m missing something, but I’m not aware of link between systemic hypertension (not to be confused with pulmonary hypertension as they are two completely different things) and ARDS....the dreaded process that occurs in those with poor CV outcomes. Of course, we are working with only fuzzy data, but in times like this it may not be prudent to wait for solid double blinded randomized clinical studies. However, I would think that the information on an association with ACE-I’s and ARBs and Covid-19 should be able to be put together very quickly. This could be an extremely valuable piece of information.
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 7:46pm
Novartis, Incyte to testruxolitinib for use in Covid-19 associated cytokine storm
http://www.pharmatimes.com/news/novartis,_incyte_to_test_jakavi_for_coronavirus-linked_cytokine_storm_1335533
Novartis and Incyte are planning to launch a clinical study to test the potential of Jakavi (ruxolitinib) in patients with COVID-19 associated cytokine storm, a type of severe immune overreaction that can result from the infection and may contribute to respiratory compromise in some patients.
According to the Swiss drugmaker, preclinical and preliminary clinical evidence suggests that the JAK inhibitor could reduce the number of patients requiring intensive care and mechanical ventilation.
Phase III Trial
https://www.targetedonc.com/news/phase-iii-trial-planned-for-ruxolitinib-to-treat-covid19related-cytokine-storm
Research referenced in the above article.
COVID-19: consider cytokine storm syndromes and immunosuppression
Cytokine storm
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3294426/
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 7:52pm
Acetazolamide, Nifedipine and Phosphodiesterase Inhibitors may prove useful in treating Covid-19
Acetazolamide, Nifedipine and Phosphodiesterase Inhibitors: Rationale for Their Utilization as Adjunctive Countermeasures in the Treatment of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
In light of this, a countermeasure that has been shown to be effective in high altitude illness is Acetazolamide.
Acetazolamide has a myriad of effects on different organ systems [20]. It potently reduces hypoxic pulmonary vasoconstriction [21]. Improved minute ventilation and expired vital capacity has been shown in climbers taking Acetazolamide as well [22].
Other therapeutics that have been shown to be effective in the analogous condition of HAPE and that are directed towards decreased pulmonary pressure include Nifedipine and Phosphodiesterase inhibitors (Table (Table2)2) [25,26].
HAPE: High altitude pulmonary edema; COVID-19: Coronavirus disease 2019; Pao2:FiO2 ratio: Arterial oxygen partial pressure to fractional inspired oxygen ratio; PaCO2 level: Partial pressure of carbon dioxide; Chest CT: Computed tomography of chest.
Other therapeutics that have been shown to be effective in the analogous condition of HAPE and that are directed towards decreased pulmonary pressure include Nifedipine and Phosphodiesterase inhibitors (Table (Table2)2) [25,26].
Parameter
HAPE
COVID-19
Pao2:FiO2 ratio
Decreased
Decreased
Hypoxia
Present
Present
Tachypnea
Increased
Increased
PaCO2 level
Decreased
Decreased
Ground Glass Opacities on Chest CT
Present
Present
Patchy Infiltrates on Chest X-RAY
Present
Present
Fibrinogen levels/Fibrin formation
Increased
Increased
Alveolar compromise
Present
Present
Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome Development in Severe Disease
Present
Present
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 7:56pm
PPE (masks) and PROCEDURES
Masks are necessary but the procedures on how you use the masks determine if you will be successful at preventing infection.
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 8:25pm
I am not sure why medical professionals are so concerned with snake oil
I am all for free enterprise. If someone wants to market colloidal silver as a cure all. I am all for it.. Buyer beware. People buy stupid things all the time.. AND what may be a stupid buy for you and me , someone else is satisfied with. The colloidal silver was just an example.. For all I know it works. I mean, yes silver has been used long before the advent of antibiotics and definitely is antimicrobial. So if you could suspend it in a colloid and take it orally, the science makes some sense.. But only way to know is in practice. Never the less, there are tons of solutions to the same problem.. And who is to say if something works. What I do know , is people would not be interested in these if "conventional medicine was doing its job" So WtF are they so threatened?? about the 26$ you spend on a supplement .. when a single non-productive hospital ER visit or dr visit can be hundreds or thousands of dollars?? They are worried you will get scammed? The US for profit medical is much more of scam, I am offended by any medical person saying such about supplements. I have been ill for 30 years , and I have tried drugs. Not one has given me a single benefit while causing nothing but severe side-effects.. Meanwhile, I have taken many supplements , some life changing. I manage all my conditions with supplements. And if they were removed from the market , I would be dead.
Moving on , regarding the right for people to manage their health as they see fit.. There are tons of "real" studies showing many supplements do work for disease. There are natural compounds that have anti-inflammatory abilities, immune modulating properties, neuro-protective, cardio protective, hepa protective etc.. In fact, NAC is used for tylenol induced liver damage in the hospital. And , any medical person who says that Vitamin D, Zinc, Vitamin C and Calcium and Magnesium and virtually all vitamins and minerals are not involved in proper immune response, and all biological responses for that matter , should leave medicine all together.
PS, I get the safety bit. I am thinking most people will not drink a gallon of gasoline because it may cure them. But as my Nutritionist, RD wife stated, everything will kill you if you take too much . Water can actually be lethal if you drink too much. Salt has a lethal dose as well. of course you need to use things in moderation and titrate up if needed. But their are actually supplements that are so safe, they have given incredible amounts without any known lethal dose. So, if you are stupid enough to take a whole bottle of tylenol, I can tell you how safe that is too. And by the way, aspirin is well used the medical profession for hundreds of years, and like most medicines, were derived from actions found in herbal botanicals. So to say, the medical profession has not proven any herbs or supplements work, is a joke. As big Pharma tries to patent the effects of such compounds ....... all the time.
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 8:43pm
Very worthwhile
Thank you Chris - very informative, you guided the conversation unobtrusively to cover a good range of questions. She is obviously very knowledgeable in her field(s), although also obviously with fairly conventional points of view in any areas she hasn't studied. What has been so valuable for all of us in following your research on this, is that you haven't limited yourself to a single area of study, but have given us a broad range of ways to understand it. And even if some of it lacked "double-blind studies" at this point, your common sense and objectivity has made it possible to assess likelihoods and sensible paths to follow. It's very much appreciated, and this interview gave us yet another angle of view plus a lot of well-explained detail. Thank you again!
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 9:20pm
Chris, you were masterful in discussing the mask and supplement issues
If you ever decide to switch callings, I think you would be equally successful as a high level diplomat.
She is obviously a very bright and knowledgeable woman and the interview was very informative but it was interesting to observe the programming that is in place and how it influences her thinking processes in certain areas.
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 10:04pm
Got Dissonance?
Takeaways from Ms. Rasmussen: 1) IV Vitamin C is crap but luckily it won't kill you, if you're going to die, what the hell; 2) whereas wearing a mask definitely can kill you; 3) re: the WHO and CDC, just suck harder; 4) mice are dying in really strange ways; 5) big shout out to history, might have to look at some soon!
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 10:14pm
Not sold yet on chloroquine?
In the video, Chris expresses a concern about the experimental design of Didier Raoult's study. But I wonder if Chris realizes that Raoult has already published a second study, with 80 patients, in an attempt to answer the criticisms raised about the first study?
Chris is wondering about the mix of patients that Dr. Lev Zelenko treated in his practice. Zelenko answers the questions in this video. They're all high risk patients, greater than sixty years old or with pre-existing conditions. Roughly half tested positive for covid-19, the other half were exhibiting the characteristic symptoms. With the infection spreading aggressively in Zelenko's religious community, there wasn't always time to wait for testing. But it wouldn't seem responsible for the good doctor to assume those patients just had the flu, now would it? You'd expect 50% hospitalizations and 10% deaths in this population. Zelenko's result: 669 patients, 2 hospitalizations, zero deaths.
OK, so maybe there's still room for a reasonable doubt. But there's been a consistent theme throughout these videos: sometimes in a fast-developing situation, it's best to take action based on less than perfect information. Why shouldn't this apply to treatment strategies? Would you encourage a patient in a high risk category to wait for double blind peer reviewed studies?
The news seems to be spreading among doctors in the field. Here's a poll of 6,277 physicians worldwide, of whom 35% have treated at least one covid19 positive patient. And out of those approx. 2200 doctors, 37% named chloroquine or hydroxycholorquine as the most effective available treatment. Azithromycin was named second most frequently at 32%.
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Sat, Apr 04, 2020 - 10:21pm
This hospital exec in NJ got himself and his family treated with hydroxychloroquine and was glad to talk about it
After testing positive, getting treatment, and recovering well... a shout out to hydroxychloroquine + Zinc;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-eQW9jBSgU
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 1:53am
Great interview
Very useful information, and a shining example of how we can discuss these things in a sane and informed manner.
Bravo!
Matt
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 2:06am
Should we be “selling” chloroquine?
Chloroquine may or may not be useful in a clinical setting, and we need more research - and I don’t include a poll of doctors who mostly have never treated a Covid patient in that definition!
But the tenor of some of the comments here suggests something beyond studies in a clinical setting. Are people suggesting we should encourage people to self medicate? My wife is a mental health nurse and prescriber, and she is more than a little alarmed at the thought of lots of unsupervised use of chloroquine. It can have severe psychological effects and should not be taken lightly.
Edit: To be a bit clearer, I’m aiming at this comment by jerryr: “ Would you encourage a patient in a high risk category to wait for double blind peer reviewed studies?” My reply: are you encouraging patients in a high risk category to start taking chloroquine?
Matt
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 2:16am
COVID Treatment Guidelines: Thai Hospital System
This image (below) was sent to me by a nurse working in the Thai hospital system. It outlines the treatment guidelines established for COVID-19 patients.
There were 3 panels - I'm only posting the first, for patients with no risk factors and no pneumonia. I'm told these treatment guidelines were developed by the national specialists in epidemiology from Maihidol University in Thailand. All hospitals in Thailand use these guidelines to treat COVID patients.
Along with a list of tests, the guidelines include Hydroxychloroquine with a double dose on day 1, and 2x 200mg for 4 more days. These guidelines were issued on 3/20.
They also recommend Darunavir + Ritonavir or Lopinavir + Ritonavir. (I'm not 100% sure about that specific section).
This should not be interpreted as medical advice! I am not telling you to use the one section of these guidelines that happens to be in English and self-medicate!
My only point: HCQ has been selected by experts in other places in the world presumably after a great deal of careful consideration.
The overall Thai healthcare system is rated as #6 in the world. Everyone gets free (but rationed) healthcare. "Your first heart attack is free. If you have a second one, you have to pay..." The private healthcare system is good too.
https://ceoworld.biz/2019/08/05/revealed-countries-with-the-best-health-care-systems-2019/
"You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 2:36am
Matt
You really seem to be on the anti-chloroquine bandwagon. How did you get there? Who convinced you to be in that place? The idea of self-medicating is your straw man... I don't know anyone here who is suggesting that. What I would do, for myself or a family member who is at risk, would be to find a MD who would prescribe.
As well, you are behind the curve in your knowledge. Both JerryR and myself have been promoting the CLINICAL data and regimen that Dr. Zelenko in NY has now treated hundreds of patients with.
Please educate yourself; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlmAHSCRIns
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 2:56am
self medicating
Matt-
I'm not jerryr. But if I were in a high risk category, and I had either symptoms or risk (close contact with a positive patient), I would find a doctor who would first make sure HCQ will do no harm to me, and then if that's true, would help me to start a treatment regime as early as possible. Of course I'd also get tested, but - if the CT scan showed me to be presumptively-positive, I'd push my doctor to start treatment immediately.
[I might also enroll in that COVID-PEP trial I linked to in another forum, if the situation applied.]
I've also found that, with the US medical system, you often have to be your own strong advocate. Otherwise - the system can end up providing you with minimal care, rather than appropriate care.
“You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.”
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 3:09am
I’m not on a bandwagon
As was clear in my message, I advocate the research of chloroquine and other treatments in a clinical setting. I’m as keen as anyone for us to gain useful treatments.
What evidence do you have that chloroquine is useful prophylactically, which you seem to be advocating? Are there no risks?
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 3:23am
Use of hydroxychloroquine
Matt, Here is my opinion;
1) Use the regimen prophylactically for medical professionals that are at risk of multiple exposures. We know that a higher viral dose, like an infected cough right in the face, is more likely to quickly overcome one's immune response. India has chosen to do this.
2) Use the Zelenko protocol, which you still don't seem to understand. Dr. Zelenko does not give everyone and anyone the medicine - but he does give it IMMEDIATELY to anyone who does have risk factors like advanced age, hypertension, etc., and is presenting with the disease. He has said in one or another of the interviews that if there were a quick turnaround test available - he would wait for a positive result to treat, but for now he does not have that luxury.
Dr. Zelenko, at 28:00 minutes in the following interview, states the following of the (heart related) risks; "They are highly theoretical and almost unheard of - I have spoken to multiple colleagues and no one has ever seen it". He then goes on to wonder how anyone could imagine these risks being higher than the risk dying from this virus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Oq6IOP1sd8
"
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 3:36am
Please respond to what I say
I don’t know how you reached the conclusion that I don’t understand Dr Zelenko’s protocol, when I haven’t even mentioned or commented on it.
I ask again, what evidence do you have that would support prophylactic use e.g. for health workers?
For prophylactic use, surely you must balance risk against risk, whatever the merits of Dr Zelenko’s ‘death’s door’ argument.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 3:51am
Her view on Masks and Supplements reflected societal pressures and biases.
When you listen to anyone it is imperative to recognize first their biases and secondly their areas of expertise. As a virologist she was brilliant... and I totally focused on her knowledge which she imparted in a detailed but understandable way. Her comments on masks and supplements were outside of her preview and mostly irrelevant to the topic of the interview. Wow....I have a newfound interest in virology thanks to her. This was perhaps one of the most riveting hours I have spent on my iPad.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 3:51am
David McKenney said:
If this "cocktail" is used, and your own body builds the antibodies, would you still need a vaccine, if there was a vaccine?
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 4:08am
India is recommending use of hydroxychloroquine for health care workers
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/hydroxychloroquine-for-healthcare-workers-persons-caring-for-covid-19-patients-in-households-icmr/articleshow/74777307.cms
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 4:12am
Virginia
scroll down and see there is no gender difference n=2000
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 4:22am
David McKenney said:
Maybe Trump could order a study. Would be good for his ratings.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 5:09am
Very professional conversation...
I enjoyed this podcast as much as many of the ones I have seen. Chris, you looked relaxed and were spot on in the direction you took to allow this very bright person to speak on the things she was more than capable in talking about and she was relaxed because of your efforts and frankly she did not disappoint in anything she said or the explanations she gave. Just a very fabulous and informational piece. Again, you are in your groove Dr. and appear to be reveling in your Doctor to Doctor conversations for which you and your host are more than qualified to speak about.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 5:34am
Bias on Mask and Supplements
Concur the majority of the interview was very good, Chris is definitely gifted in his ability to conduct a logic and thought provoking conversation. Also, glad to see others in the community pick up on the bias related to mask and supplements my wife and I both were shaking our heads on those comments to us it reveals and underlying philosophy.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 5:48am
Chart in Virginia has topped
Looks like the numbers are getting better. Has Virginia peaked?
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 5:53am
Virginia
For the last two updates, the rate has been linear. Still far to soon. My optometric practice is closed save emergencies.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 5:54am
HCQ as PEP or PREP
1) risks: I'd ask my doctor what the risks are. It has been around for decades. Presumably the risks are pretty well known at this point.
2) evidence: none, of course. I'm guessing that's why someone is starting both a PEP and a PREP trial for HCQ. Trials is how we get the evidence. I'd look to join one, if I were a contact, or a family member.
Certainly I'd understand it if you would prefer to wait for the trial result - if you had high risk, and your family member were infected. Me? I'd join a trial and help science move forward. I'm a pro-science kind of guy. 🙂
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 7:32am
Recessions, Depressions, Gratitude
Dr. Rasmussen's expertise really shined through during this interview. And the sharing of her (and Chris's) humanity, thoughts, fears, concerns, and values were gems that come from a well done, long form podcast.
While the depression of the 1930's affected the mindset of a generation, don't forget some of the severe recessions that followed. I was in elementary school during the recession of 1974. My ironworker dad was out of work for 2 years, and my family was on unemployment insurance but too proud to accept free/reduced lunches at school. We couldn't afford hot lunch, so I brought a cold lunch every day and brought my sandwich bags home to re-use them the next day. And yes, our family would save onion tops so nothing went to waste. This frugality stuck with me, and has helped me succeed professionally and financially. Even when I was pulling in a 6-figure salary, I often saved and reused my sandwich bags.
There's a psychological trade-off between an abundance mentality and a scarcity mentality, if we get the balance right, our society will be better off. We will truly appreciate the pleasure/joy/wonder of eating an avocado in a northern climate or taking a hot shower on a cold morning. Gratitude for what we do have leads to happiness and/or contentment. Desire and pining for what we don't have leads to unhappiness and suffering.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 8:05am
Yes, Ma'm, your confirmation bias is showing
I agree that the Doctor's interview was interesting...and boring. She was extremely interesting when speaking on her field of virology. She was a crashing bore when speaking on other topics: infectious disease prevention, masks, supplements and how they work in the body, the studies of immunity and history, including her own family history.
"My mom is a die hard Vitamin C fan, I'm a lot more evidence based....."
Okay Doctor, I'll wait for Linus Pauling and the hundreds of other studies, including the latest ones on the effectiveness of Vitamin C dosing in Covid-19 patients, to catch you up on that evidence.
Masks! Chris, you showed chivalrous restraint, and allowed her to reveal her own ignorance, I hope someone enlightens her on the studies of masks and how they work in respiratory disease control. Masks, they aren't just for doctors anymore, even the rest of us can be instructed on how to wear them correctly.
Doctor your assertion that there is no such thing as an immune booster: it might be nice to read some studies outside your own field now and then.I specifically recommend studies on the science of sleep and how it affects the immune system, ditto for stress, and diet, and a field you seem not to be aquatinted with yet, epigenetics.
In fact if you cared to read up on it, stress is a major driving force in evolution. And while you are waiting for those books of study you ordered to complete your education, perhaps you might speak with any living relatives about your family history, like I did with my grandmother, who was also born in 1911. I had several conversations with her over the years about the historic events she lived through. It gave me a wonderful perspective on her generation and its wisdom and what we in our youthful hubris might overlook. Guess what her family did to live through the 1918 Spanish Flu? Probably the same thing your grandmother's family did, they socially distanced yes, but they washed their hands, cleaned the house, wore masks and ate oranges, oh and they slept with the windows cracked open. They believed in the value of sunlight, fresh air and good food and good sleep. My grandmother lived to 90 years old, every day of her life she got up and ate a whole orange for breakfast, went for a long walk (usually to church) getting lots of sunlight, she also got a full night's sleep with the window open, even in the most freezing winter conditions. She kept a very clean house. You want evidence? Honey, you ARE the evidence. You lived because of the habits your grandmother and your mother and other ancestors had that saved their lives and yours.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 8:21am
Follow The Money?
Totally lost respect for Ms. Rasmussen when she poo-pooed supplements and herbals. History has shown us that insufficient amounts of proper nutrients can cause disease, just look at scurvy. Food is medicine and if you can’t get the nutrients you need supplementation is called for. And many, many modern medicines came from homeopathic, herbal medicines. For instance aspirin and digitalis.
Agree with nordicjack
In my own family I have seen low levels of iron, Vitamin D and zinc deficiency all be corrected through supplementation. Ms. Rasmussen may doing real harm with her bias. Makes me wonder where her paycheck comes from. She seems pro vaccine rather than holistic health. Sad
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 9:18am
robie- regarding VA sex distribution
I agree , the whole thing with men more susceptible is way over-blown. I have seen studies and nothing varying more than 7% - which is really only 3% as it swings. If you were to evaluate populations, by country or city, you would find the same. And there are more men in china since the 1 child law. And men do not generally live as long as women and any illness will likely have greater fatality in them. There is no where enough statistical significance , after accounting for populations, to even closely suggest women have some sort of non-susceptibility or inferred protection. Tell that to all the women who have had Covid. This along with the smoking should be put to rest. Though smoking has direct immuno suppressing effects on lung surfacant, no real evidence exists this is causing people to die. The smokers who have died are in direct relation to their percent in the population.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 9:22am
Is it just me?
Is it just me, or do the numbers coming out of California seem artificially low, especially in the Bay Area?
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 9:55am
Not sure what to say. I think this worse than what we are told
Well, its hit closer to home for me. I know someone who's father was taken by covid last night. He was just 51 and in perfect health. After seeking medical, he was sent home, he returned in 24 hours- and died within 12 hours.
This is hard for me to wrap my head around. When they are saying its kills mostly old people. or people with comorbidity. It just doesnt follow. I know there are supposed to be very few healthy young that can die. But it sure doesnt feel like this.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 10:45am
Re: worse than what we are told
Somewhere I saw a chart that showed the 50-59 age group forming 19% of the total deaths, and the 40-49 group not far behind, at 17 or 18% if I remember correctly. The 60 and up group are still the largest demographic, but that's for a 40 year stretch. Younger people are for sure very susceptible. If anyone else saw that chart and can point me to it again, please do. I'd like to hang onto it this time, and compare with how the numbers develop.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 11:10am
Virginia cases
Our hospital lab has noticed an interesting (and hopeful) drop in cases sent out for testing for the last 3 days. Time will tell if this means anything...
Karen
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 11:27am
Virginia
seems to be flattening the curve. We follow Richmond, Chesterfield and Amelia the growth has slowed.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 11:38am
bobindyschoicerealestate-com said:
The lady is part of the problem- like many in public health, academia, and hospital administration. As Chris has stated previously, "you are on your own." Or at least we are on our own. She, Faucci, Birx, and all those who kneel at the altar of WHO and CDC are a an adverse factor in this whole thing.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 12:00pm
Mask reuse update
I have been sterilizing the 7 N95 masks I purchased back in January. I have a gas range and the lowest temp setting is 175F. I bake them in a preheated oven for 30 minutes. I expect they will have a limited lifespan, but so far they are unharmed by the baking. If COVID19 can survive 175F for 30 minutes then it may as well be game over. I place the masks on a cookie sheet to make them easier to put in the oven. Gloves are not needed while handling the “dirty” masks in my opinion, I just immediately wash my hands as prescribed and sanitize the oven handle and sink faucet that I touched before washing.
My wife has worked in biomedical labs so she showed my how to properly take them off after wearing. The one thing you don’t want to do is put one back on before sterilization. So if I have to go out, I either wear just one continuously for my entire journey, or I bring fresh masks with me.
Have you heard of any medical centers sterilizing their masks?
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 12:07pm
Improper use of masks better than no use.
We are constantly being warned about how masks can be improperly used by amateurs, and result in infection. The rationale is that the exterior of the mask will become contaminated with virus particles, and then if the mask is not properly removed the hands can become infected and then from there to the mouth.
Has any of these experts ever realized that the exterior of the mask becoming contaminated with virus droplets is exactly why the mask needs to be worn in the first place? If the mask had not been worn, then where would those droplets have ended up? Obviously in the respiratory tract of the person, since the mask is covering that opening and restricting the droplets from direct access to the respiratory tract.
So now you have a used mask that is contaminated on the exterior but has prevented virus droplets from entering into your body. There are now 3 scenarios that could present themselves.
Scenario 1, you remove the mask and reverse so the exterior is now on the inside touching your lips and nose, and inhale deeply and suck the surface of the mask so as to be able to ingest all the virus droplets on the previously trapped on the exterior surface. No one is going to do this.
Scenario 2 is that you remove the mask incorrectly, and contaminate your hands. From there you can either lick the virus off your fingers directly, at a later time touch your face and infect yourself (but probably with a smaller innoculum than if you wore no mask and inhaled the droplets directly), or else you could sanitize and wash your hands after removing the mask, thereby preventing infection.
Scenario 3 is that you watch a short YouTube video on how to remove a mask properly, and do no harm.
Ok, so there’s not enough masks, I understand that. But to use ignorance as a basis of a recommendation leaves much to be desired. Sorry, it’s too late to cut any expert slack for not seeing this.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 12:08pm
Dr. Rasmussen and limits
Dr. Rasmussen knows well what she learned; but she is too inexperienced to know that she can go far beyond what she was taught. It would be interesting to interview her in ten years and see if her world has expanded.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 12:31pm
N95 Reuse
My daughter’s an RN, who is training in PPE use, right now. She says N95s are probably good for 1/2 dozen sterilization/ reuse cycles. She says the valve will become clogged.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 12:45pm
Enough masks--the easy way
Masks are so easy to make that you don't even need a sewing machine. A needle and thread would be perfectly adequate.
https://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Cloth-Face-Mask/
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2020/04/04/coronavirus-face-mask-tips-how-make-fabric-instructions/2945209001/
https://www.craftpassion.com/face-mask-sewing-pattern/
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/san-antonio/news/2020/04/04/you-can-make-a-simple-face-mask-without-sewing-to-stop-the-spread-of-coronavirus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-gjBR_TT2w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-gjBR_TT2w
Any of these can be altered, if needed, to hold a filter. And filters are available.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=n95+filters+for+masks&crid=3GZPOPD20IZ2V&sprefix=N95+filt%2Caps%2C309&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_8
The thing is--how up close and personal are you going to be to others when you are out and about? If you don't have the regulation, store-bought mask are you going to go out among the public anyway? Any barrier between you and the suspect air is better than no barrier at all.
The advantage of these homemade masks is that you can take them off when you return home, toss them into a disinfecting solution, or just straight into the washing machine. You can make so many that you will always have a clean one. Just remember to wash your hands thoroughly before you bite your fingernails or pick your nose.
And you can use cool fabrics and be truly unique...just sayin'
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 12:51pm
thatchmo said:
Ok, Ok, Dr. Rasmussen wandered off her professional reservation a few times to give her personal opinion. That's fine with me, gives me a chance to hone my discretionary skills. Really nice interview.
Re: Masks. I'm in Costco, wearing my mask. I walk through a cloud of contaminated, airborne snot from the person who just walked past. I take extreme care to carefully remove my mask when home. But my clothes are covered by the same contaminates. I know here on PP we've discussed the complete, appropriate personal/household decon proceedure. But, really, who's actually doing that after a trip to the store? Getting hot and bothered about the "proper" way to remove a mask? Your clothes are contaminated! I guess easy for me to say. No community spread- so far- here on Kauai....Aloha, Steve. Be well.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 2:20pm
masks and body language
i wonder if otherwise intelligent people's twisted logic (finding excuses not to wear them, however thin) regarding masks is tied up with the fear of not being able to read another persons body language, given that body language is the primary way in which people communicate fact to face
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 2:49pm
Regarding masks and normal intellect
For years medical professionals wore masks for all types of procedures. Now we are to believe they do nothing and its not going to help? Of course we know the method of transmission for flu, cold and most highly contagious diseases.. Its by respiratory and salivary/mucosal secretions. Slow speed cameras catch what a sneeze, cough and even speaking communicates.. Lets just play dumb..
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 2:52pm
Killing virus on clothes
In the rare instance we go into town, we take our shoes off outside, remove our clothes and put them in a plastic bag. Either straight to the washing machine or drier for 30 minutes to kill the virus. Then take off the gloves and shower. I guess 30 minutes in the drier is enough time?
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 3:21pm
Just spoke to an old university friend who is head of infectious diseases at one of London's big hospitals
Interesting points were:
- They still had no good idea of the true infection fatality rate - actually knew less than I did
- They have emptied the hospital except for Covid-19 and emergencies. They have increased the ICU capacity by 50% and it is full but not overwhelmed. They are managing OK.
- Only two groups are seriously affected, the elderly with co-morbidities and the obese. Except for a statistically insigificant tiny handful that you get with any disease, people under 50 who are getting seriously ill are 130kgs or more (~290 lbs).
So if you're overweight start dieting and exercising immediately!. It's a good thing to do anyway.
FWIW they were concerned about the possibility that the social distancing measures and lockdowns might end up costing more lives than the virus would have done had we just let it run its course.
PS They also estimated that possibly as many as 1/3 of Londoners had been exposed to the virus - but that was just a finger in the air estimate.
PPS I would trust this info over anything else. This doctor lived next door to me at college and we were pretty good friends although we haven't spoken in twenty odd years. I'm absolutely certain that this doctor was telling me the truth as they understood it. They also are in a senior position in a large city with a substantial outbreak so will be looking at statistically significant numbers of patients.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 3:32pm
Traditional doctors in NYC using both Vitamin C IV and HCQ
A very well written article by a representative from the ED and ICU on the state of treatments for COVID in NYC. So this approach is leaking into the mainstream
Summary
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 3:52pm
Re: Traditional doctors in NYC - sand_puppy
When you have a minute, sand_puppy, could you explain why the "position - prone" is part of the necessary process? Whenever I've had breathing issues, it's a lot easier to be slightly sitting up. Lying prone makes me start to cough in those situation, which doesn't sound ideal with CoV19.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 3:53pm
Bronx Zoo Tiger Tests Positive for Covid-19
A 4 year old tiger at the Bronx Zoo has tested positive for Covid-19.
Well, that adds another wrinkle to this whole story.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 3:53pm
All-in-all
The interview was informative and format was well done. Dr Martenson always presents well and coherent. Dr Rasmussen was clear. But she still seems biased to medical profession and mask wearing.. wont really control infection or protect us ( for the masses to wear ). The same with alternative and natural supplementation and support. Though she seems fine so long as its safe, but my feeling in that,her opinion, is its all benign in effectiveness as well.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 3:55pm
Wise choice
The choice should be left up to the patient. But based on the evidence we have now on how effective hydroxychloroquine and azithromax have been even in high-risk patients, it would be an intelligent choice now, even without the extensive testing. I know I’ll ask for it if I’m in that situation.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 4:02pm
Welsh ICU doc who had Corona-lovely interview, serious info
I have dreaded hearing pets could get this. This just gets worse and worse.
For those who have time, this is a lovely interview with a corona doc in Wales who treats and had Covid 19. He makes a point that the average age they see is below 50 unclear as to why. The interview brings it back to the humans involved in this drama in a kind way.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 5:42pm
Regarding Welsh dr, and age of people in ICU
As he has said, his entire ICU us people under 50. This surprised him , as its not consistent with what was coming out of wuhan. Something is terribly wrong with the information we have been provided. All the empirical testimony Ihave seen , not just this one, is consistent but not with what we have been told
I know that at least 3 broward county sheriff officers have died from this. And all under 40. As of the death rate for under 40, this would be about 2 times the flu CFR. for 3 to die you would have to have 3000 officers in broward county to have this death rate AND all would have to have been infected. Those numbers are statistical impossibilities not even close to and consistent with what we have been told.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 5:57pm
A Stuck Value?
She should take a close look at the valve Les. It's a small disc or flap of some sort of thin rubber. Breath out, flap goes open. Breath in, flap gets pulled shut. Not sure how you clog up something so simple. If it did seem sticky, a bit of water should clean it.
Now I can see that repeated exposures to heat might make it a bit brittle, resulting in a crack or tear.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 6:00pm
Bronx Zoo Tiger Tests Positive for Covid-19 ?
I am curious if this really is a case of Covid19 infecting the tiger.....or case of Feline coronavirus (FCoV) and some really, really bad (and inaccurate) reporting and passing along bad information on social media. I am trying to get to the truth and the facts, but it is so twisted now. If I was a betting man in Vegas.....and I am...I'm putting my money on it being FCov and NOT Covid19. If it turns out to be, the cost will be very, very high to domestic animals...and it didn't have to be that way.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 6:20pm
Totally agree
I manage my multiple sclerosis with selenium, quercetin, and Cytokine Suppress. I have it because of a reaction to a mercury-containing tetanus booster which paralyzed both my arms for several days, brachial plexus neuropathy. I am very leery of taking pharmaceutical drugs: none is benign. I recognize that they have a place, but my first attempts at treating anything are always with herbs, vitamins, and homeopathy, which I have seen work miracles. My first thought when I realized that coronavirus was coming here was to look online for a nosode, which I found. And I bought all the herbs for Dr. Stephen Buhner’s three coronavirus formulas , which I read about here. The tinctures will be ready in two weeks. His book Herbal Antivirals is proving hard to get, but I bought and am reading his Herbal Antibiotics, which is brilliant, he is extremely knowledgeable about treating antibiotic-resistant infections. Most doctors object out of the uninformed programming they have undergone.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 6:20pm
All My Covid19 Problems are now solved
Got this today in my inbox (spam folder, not sure why, its clearly legit)
I'll have to figure out what to do with my $100,000.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 6:41pm
I would not blame the bats yet
Hi. The origin is still in question. I would not throw the bat houses out yet. They are great for mosquitoes which may be useful during this if gardening or worse mosquitoes get effected.
Here's a great article I found so far.. Link below...Article Note "However, the coronavirus isolated from pangolin is similar at 99 percent in a specific region of the S protein, which corresponds to the 74 amino acids involved in the ACE (Angiotensin Converting Enzyme 2) receptor binding domain, the one that allows the virus to enter human cells to infect them.
By contrast, the virus RaTG13 isolated from bat R. affinis is highly divergent in this specific region (only 77 percent of similarity). This means that the coronavirus isolated from pangolin is capable of entering human cells whereas the one isolated from bat R. affinis is not.
In addition, these genomic comparisons suggest that the SARS-Cov-2 virus is the result of a recombination between two different viruses, one close to RaTG13 and the other closer to the pangolin virus. In other words, it is a chimera between two pre-existing viruses."
https://www.sciencealert.com/genome-analysis-of-the-coronavirus-suggests-two-viruses-may-have-combined
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 6:44pm
Pangolins have been blamed,too.
https://cen.acs.org/biological-chemistry/infectious-disease/Novel-coronavirus-thought-jumped-humans/98/i13
The team found that coronavirus RNA isolated from those pangolins encodes spike proteins that are closely related to those of SARS-CoV-2 (Nature 2020, DOI: 10.1038/s41586-020-2169-0). That doesn’t prove that the new coronavirus passed through pangolins. But to prevent another virus making the same leap, markets shouldn’t sell pangolins, the researchers say.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 6:48pm
Pangolians vs bats vs combo vs another source = mystery
Here's another article.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0331/1127645-was-the-pangolin-the-source-of-the-covid-19-outbreak/
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 7:02pm
blaming the bats
I agree, we absolutely should not blame the bats. The poor things do their best to hide out in caves, and live their lives.
But sometimes curious people come along, capture them with nets, take them off to labs, extract their blood, and then...well, sometimes accidents happen.
And instead of dealing straightforwardly with the accident, some other people spend their efforts trying to cover it up instead.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-china-trail-leading-back-to-wuhan-labs/
And that's why I really don't blame the bats at all.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 7:11pm
Remember what Tom Cotton said in beginning.
Even Tom Cotton spoke out on it's possible origin & the lying media attacked him. I lean more toward this possibility. I hope it was an accident & not intentional, but I am suspicious.
https://triblive.com/news/politics-election/arkansas-sen-tom-cotton-claims-coronavirus-is-chinese-biological-warfare/
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 8:10pm
Here's an idea maybe we need to follow CZ and other Eastern European countries
My wife is from a country in the former Soviet Union.. She just told me her parents there are limited to 4 KM radius and masks required when out.
This makes a lot of sense. Besides the mask, it really limits outbreak areas by a intermediate quarantine area.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 8:25pm
Vegas Jim - Id take that bet
I know you would bet its Feline Coronavirus. However, being in the NYC and being that Cats are very susceptible to Covid 19, I think its probably Covid 19. But the test may be sensitive to both.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 8:34pm
regarding choice
Yes, my cousin who is an MD said that azythromax ( Zpak ) and hydroxychloriquine is working. I wonder though, if you wait too long to prescribe it will be too late? so does everyone get this from the start - or the time they are severe? or what?
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 8:56pm
Mild in dogs
Don Hamilton discusses coronavirus in dogs in Homeopathic Care for Dogs and Cats, and says coronavirus is very mild in dogs. He says it’s a case of a vaccine in search of a disease.
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Sun, Apr 05, 2020 - 10:32pm
Colloidal/ionic silver
Since NordicJack mentioned silver, I'll just add a couple anecdotal data points. Bearing in mind there are three reactions when one mentions colloidal/ionic silver (1. What's that?, 2. Enthusiastic support and 3. An "oh brother" eye roll), I was agnostic on the subject until recently. I was introduced to ionic silver (inhaled with the help of a nebulizer) when I had an incipient sinus infection that wanted to fester but which I was keeping at a standstill with neti pot treatment. A friend had a nebulizer and I did a few treatments over a couple days (each less than a minute, inhaling mist into sinuses and lungs). Wiped the problem right out.
Others in my circle have treated sore throat and possible COVID-19 with similar results. Whatever's trying to get started, silver seems to knock it out. All this is in the last several months. Placebo? Wonder medicine? I really don't care. If a placebo is tricking my body into getting rid of sickness, placebo me up, y'all! But it's clean, safe (no side effects) and cheap. None of which are generally true of allopathic medicine.
YMMV. DYODD. This is not medical advice. May fortune smile upon us all!
VIVA -- Sager
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 12:21am
regarding the Ionic/colloidal silver
The way you administered your ionic silver, I would expect it to work as you found. Contrary to the FDA levying action against 7 silver companies for making claims in fighting the virus, there are studies that prove that ionic silver has antiviral and antimicrobial effects in vitro. The question is whether this action is similar in the body. Ionic silver is turned into silver chloride in the stomach, which is bound and useless for any medicinal use. However, a external application where it does not need to pass through the gut, has been pretty well proven. One could argue inhaling this in a mist would essentially be a topical application on the lung tissue, that is affected by the virus. Thereby, it could actually work as it would in vitro. ( as proven ) Actually, I think it would be worth taking. whats the worse that would happen?? you turn blue?
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 12:23am
Size of inoculum matters
I got kind of lost when Chris asked her if a larger inoculum would make it less likely that the immune system could fight off the disease. Either I spaced out when she answered or there wasn‘t a clear answer to the question. I believe the discussion immediately veered off to the subject of masks. I was hoping to have that question answered directly without considering masks straight away. After all, if a patient is just beginning to be infectious, it could be that a bystander would be less vulnerable, ceteris paribus. That issue resolved, one could then discuss whether masks are effective. But at this point, I feel as confused as before on the size of inoculum question.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 12:46am
drydor said:
Hi, what do you think of this? it seems interesting.
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/itempdf74155353254prod/11938173/COVID-19__Attacks_the_1-Beta_Chain_of_Hemoglobin_and_Captures_the_Porphyrin_to_Inhibit_Human_Heme_Metabolism_v5.pdf
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 1:24am
Silver Lining
Sager,
I've had similar results using colloidal/ionic silver. At first, my wife bought a quart of 10 PPM (parts per million) colloidal silver for $32 ($1 per ounce.) She got it to deal with an abscess in one of her horses. It worked and saved me a Vet bill. We used it for a few other animal infection issues and then tried it on ourselves when we came down with colds.
When the bottle ran dry, she wanted to buy another. I started looking into making it myself. It is easy to make with .9999+ silver, distilled water, and a very low amperage DC power source. I found a used commercially produced colloidal silver / electrically isolated silver (CS/EIS) generator and bought it. That was over 6 years ago. I figure I can make a gallon of 10 PPM CS/EIS for less than 2 bucks.
There aren't any medical studies to show it works. Studies take money. Who in their right mind would pay to study something that won't return a dime? Big Pharma can always say that there isn't any evidence to support silver's claims. Of course, if you don't bother looking, you'll never find any. There are also issues associated with overusing silver (Argyria - blue skin syndrome.) Big Pharma quickly point out those potential issues, but nobody will study the dosage needed to develop these conditions. Why should they try to establish limits of silver consumption when there aren't documented medical uses for it? The logic appears circular to me.
Here's a thread on peak prosperity that really just links to an external site: https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/learn-how-to-make-colloidal-silver/ I was curious and read all the posts there. Most of the posts are focused on the finer points of making CS/EIS. There are interesting articles interspersed concerning the usage of CS/EIS. Here's a 2 minute video that was linked in one of those posts showing bacterial growth in a 2' X 4' Petri dish banded with increasing doses of antibiotics laced agar.
Spoiler alert. Given enough time, life will learn to overcome any poison. Big Pharma knows this. That's why they have to come up with new classes of antibiotics when the microbes develop resistance to their drugs. The medical-industrial-complex is expensive to operate. They can't tolerate using cheap, off-patent drugs ... or easily made CS/EIS ... to cure a new virus. There's no money to be made from that. Hmmm.
Lots of folks put their trust in the medical establishment. That's fine as long as it works for them. What happens when the economy slides off the rails and the medical treatments disappear or become too expensive to use? Imagine if your employer shut down and your job and health insurance disappeared overnight. Then, imagine coming down with a severe case of Covid-19. Perhaps the hospitals will be generous and treat you for free. Perhaps they won't.
Do you remember when N95 masks, toilet paper, and shelf stable foods were readily available for purchase? Shoot, that was just a few months ago. The world is looking like a totally different place now. What's the future going to bring? Are you completely convinced that Big Pharma will be around (and looking out for your best interests) when you need them most? You might as well investigate CS/EIS now ... while the opportunity exists.
Grover
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 4:49am
“Battlefield Medicine”: Covid-19 Treatment, Chloroquine/Zinc/Azithromycin and Dr. Vladimir Zelenko
nordicjack:
To answer your specific question directly, Dr. Zelenko prescribes the chloroquine/zinc/azithromycin treatment as soon as patients show breathing distress. I am not going to try to summarize all the details, but watching the first ten minutes or so of the video below should give you adequate information.
Chris: can you please try to get an interview with Dr. Zelenko? I think the PP tribe would really benefit from hearing from him directly.
Here is a letter I put on my Facebook page...I hope it is useful to my PP friends. Some of my anti-Trump friends reacted along political lines. Too bad.
"First, here is a link to Dr. Zelenko’s own letter (over a week old now) to the world-wide medical community regarding his use of hydroxychloroquine in combination with zinc and azithromycin to treat Covid-19.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/report-successful-treatment-coronavirus/5708056
I don’t see any reason why Dr. Zelenko would be misleading us deliberately. He is obviously a dedicated physician. He has nothing to gain and a whole lot to lose by speaking out like this. Zelenko frankly acknowledges that his treatment of hundreds of patients was not a regular clinical trial, it was more “battlefield medicine” But we are actually in a war with this thing—so battlefield medicine is appropriate for the situation.
Here is a recent video featuring Dr. Zelenko that describes his efforts to help his patients with this treatment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Oq6IOP1sd8
Note that Dr. Zelenko prescribes this treatment as soon as anyone shows breathing distress. If you wait too long, the treatment is not as effective and the outcomes are much worse.
Last week, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved emergency use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine as a possible coronavirus treatment, concluding that the potential benefits outweigh the risks. Here is the whole letter from the FDA
https://www.fda.gov/media/136534/download
And here is the most relevant quote from the letter (top of page 3):
“Based on the totality of scientific evidence available to FDA, it is reasonable to believe that chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate may be effective in treating COVID-19,” FDA Chief Scientist Denise Hinton wrote in the approval letter.
“When used under the conditions described in this authorization, the known and potential benefits of chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate when used to treat COVID-19 outweigh the known and potential risks of such products.”
The FDA is now directing a number of clinical trials to better understand the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine and other treatments, so we will have such information before too much longer. Please see the third paragraph of the next letter regarding these on-going trials.
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-continues-facilitate-development-treatments
It appears to me that this potentially valuable therapy got politicized the moment President Trump mentioned it weeks ago. Sadly, a medical issue became a political issue: full bore Trump Derangement Syndrome on display. I wonder how many lives politicization of this issue will cost.
Doctors other than Dr. Zelenko who are using the chloroquine treatment have found the same political issue emerging as they have treated patients. You can read about these other doctors and their experiences at this link.
Please read it through to the bottom and ignore the stuff on the side—typical web clickbait.
https://americantruthtoday.com/politics/2020/04/02/battlefield-medicine-ny-nj-doctors-and-patients-see-anecdotal-evidence-of-hydroxychloroquine-benefits-in-fighting-coronavirus/?utm_source=sprklst&utm_campaign=dailyhammer-medicine-04_02-mid
Hopefully, we will soon have supporting evidence from the clinical trials."
That's my posted letter. Again, I hope we can have Dr. Zelenko on for an interview with Chris...it would be really good for this group.
Bruce
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 4:59am
Les - Please keep supporting bats!
Bats are becoming critically endangered in many areas, including North America due to White Nose Syndrome. If bats decline further, we will feel the loss- loss of insect control, loss of pollination services, loss of biodiversity as other animals are dependent upon bats.
Dogs are the leading vector for rabies in the world. Rabies is 99% deadly (worldwide) if one becomes infected, yet we keep dogs for their many benefits.
Bats are no threat to us unless we have intimate contact with them.
Please keep building your bat houses. I think the real message is- don't trap, transport and eat bats!
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 5:33am
EPA list of disinfectant products that work against covid19
https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/list-n-disinfectants-use-against-sars-cov-2
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 6:47am
The Poor Bats
I was being facetious.
I've heard interviews from people with multiple doctorates talking in incredible detail about the RNA sequencing of this virus, explaining, clearly, that the chances that it occurred naturally are vanishingly small. I've heard them talk about the history of coronavirus research, in China, going back to 2010.
I've heard other virologists make short, vague statements about this viruses source coming from an animal, probably a bat, but they can't trace it.
Who to believe?!
The thing is, I understand that, in order to continue to receive funding, some experts are required to adhere to approved dialogues, regarding specific topics. The problem is, if a scientists makes one statement that is difficult to swallow, for example, "don't use masks", then it calls into question everything that scientist say about anything else.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 9:03am
This Was Really Smart (NOT)
Yeah, just what sailors want to hear from a "Suit".
Acting Navy secretary blasts ousted aircraft carrier captain as 'stupid' in address to ship's crew
TPTB so expect that people in the Military will just line up to do what they are ordered to do, lol.
I'm reminded of the observation that the second owners of large estates and expensive bug out locations of the Elites, is usually the people they had hired to guard them.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 9:11am
LA doctor seeing success with hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19
Summary - he states that it works but only if used in conjunction with Zinc, in that hydroxychloroquine by itself did not help. He states that his patients get dramatically better within 8-12 hours!
https://abc7.com/coronavirus-drug-covid-19-malaria-hydroxychloroquine/6079864/
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 9:11am
Re zpak and chloriquine
The truth is , I dont think anyone ( the powers to be - FDA - Big Pharma ) want to save lives - in fact they would love to get rid of the old and infirm burden in the country. They do not want a cheap and easy cure. They simply want the most expensive - exclusive, FDA approved treatment. Period.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 9:27am
50-59 cohort
Us 50 year olds certainly are getting sick. My wife's 103 degree temperature went down to 101 after three days and she felt almost like a million bucks. The difficulty in breathing came after the high temperature broke. Now, harder to breath during exertian, resting most of the time.
I have had a weird case with low temperature, and extreme fatigue later in the day. Never a temperature at normal, always low. If I breath in deeply, one dry cough is the result. My lungs have gradually gotten a little more noticeably affected, but it has taken 2 weeks for that to happen.
We have both been "mildly" sick for about two weeks now, with no end in sight.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 9:27am
Truth9834, and Nordic...
I can't help but think back to Nordic's comment about the father of a friend who went to the hospital, was sent home, and then died a day or so later. What if he had been given the regimen right away when he first went to the hospital? Might he still be alive today?
This is why I am such a rabid supporter and yes, promoter of this regimen.. because it's literally all we've got at the moment, and much of data we have suggests that it works. Again, as far as I know, Zelenko has had NOBODY die on his watch. This may have changed in the last 24-48 hours.. but it's still the best we have.
I want to also make clear the mess we are in regarding what DrBruceDale describes as Trump derangement syndrome. This syndrome is readily on display when it comes to the subject of hydroxychloroquine. I was talking to my elderly mother in NY last night and she is completely in the grasp of the deep state mass media. Everyone is welcome to their opinion, and some will say this is just an extreme of mass media political bias at work.. but I will continue to suggest that this is much, much worse; This is the Globalist Deep State using their control over most of the mass media to shape and control the opinion of the Sheep. I don't always like the way Trump delivers the message.. but I will tell you that there is in fact a war going on under the surface, and for now at least, my mother believes Rachel Maddow more than she believes me. She thinks this problem is due to our differing, "politics". It's nothing of the sort.
Best to all, Sorry about the interlude here.. I will try to keep this to the, "hydroxychloroquine vs. The Deep State thread"
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 10:05am
Mass media talking points
I want folks to recognize some of the subtle things going on, that you might not notice if you don't view the world, and especially the mass media, through the lens that I do. One of the talking points being used now against the use of hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19 is that you are creating a shortage and taking doses away from people who need it for their Lupus and arthritis treatment. While that is true... those people are not going to *&%$ing die if they don't have this drug, while some fraction of those Covid-19 patients who don't get it most definitely will.
The TV talking head makes the point here, and I am sure you will hear it over and over in coming days;
https://abc7.com/coronavirus-drug-covid-19-malaria-hydroxychloroquine/6079864/
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 10:44am
Tony McPherson said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU&feature=youtu.be
Interesting YouTube video. Possible first infection in November.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 11:34am
electrical grid workers isolate as coronavirus spreads
Here's an interesting article
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 11:50am
Captain Crozier
Here's an article that lays out what happened.
Clearly the Captain was trying to protect his crew. Could he have looped his superior in? Certainly I would have done that, if only to check the box on my way out the door.
Maybe, deep inside, he was afraid his boss would convince him not to send the letter.
Plague in close quarters aboard ship is one of those deep-seated fears.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 11:58am
Alternative medicine.
Hi Mohammed,
Here is a copy of an email I sent to Chris about possible defense against the Cororavirus which does not involve big pharma.
There is a simple way to boost your immune system and it has been proved with a scientific study.Jeong SC, Koyyalamudi SR, Pang G. Article in Nutrition 2012
To save me a lot of unnecessary typing you can access this experimental data on Google Scholar by just typing in their names. IgA levels in your saliva are considered the first line of defence against respiratory tract infections such as pneumonia and influenza. The conclusions of this experiment were that you can boost your IgA levels in your saliva by 50% by eating 100 grams of COOKED button mushrooms a day for a week. If you then stop eating the mushrooms then your IgA levels slowly return to baseline level. Whether this helps fight off the coronavirus is obviously unknown but this definately works on my hay fever allergy and calms my immune system response to pollen. Also I was pleasantly surprised that it helped me comfortably fight off a cold virus two summers ago.That was a first for me.
Best Wishes
Harry
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 12:12pm
Jim H Usage of Hydroxychloriquine is exact opposite
They are actually cutting people with lupus off from use of the drug saying that we need it for the coronavirus. But I am sure most are not prescribed it. Its like be hoarded and not used. Govt will seize it - officials and bigwigs will get way more than they need- everyone else go to HELL.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 12:29pm
Grover/NordicJack (silver)
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I don't take the silver as a liquid (into the stomach), only as a mist into the sinuses and throat/lungs, which as you pointed out is essentially a topical application, just internal to the body and not on an external surface. The amounts of silver in question are far too tiny to turn anybody blue, esp since I'm using rather infrequently (after the initial regiment to clear the sinus infection). The guy I get the ionic silver from is basically giving it away as a friendly gesture (he gave me a pint, which is about a year's supply at my usage rate, and gave me 2 1-liter bottles to circulate to other members of my social circle, which I was happy to do). I gave him some local-grown Maui coffee beans as a thank-you.
Community, y'all! It ain't a noun, it's a VERB!
YMMV, DYODD, this is not medical advice! May fortune smile upon us all!
VIVA -- Sager
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 12:34pm
Nordic...
I am not exactly sure what point you are making.. but I think we are seeing the same thing. My point is that this talking point has been adopted by the Globalist controlled mass media to make you feel guilty for even having the thought that hydroxychloroquine might be used for treating Covid.
In many cases today, if you don't get hydroxychloroquine, along with the rest of the regimen in time, you will die. If a Lupus patient can't get their HCQ, there are other newer medications that can actually in place of it, like immunosuppressants, and in any event if they stop their meds they are not going to die in the next few weeks.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 12:46pm
Jim H
Yeah, I forget were I was reading a lupus patient letter from her health provider was a virtual death sentence as it read and thanked her for her "sacrifice" she hadnt had a lupus flair in years.. and this would for sure bring one about. Very terrible.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 1:08pm
Covid-19 had us all fooled, but now we might have finally found its secret
"All that hilariously misguided and counterproductive criticism the media piled on chloroquine (purely for political reasons) as a viable treatment will now go down as the biggest Fake News blunder to rule them all. The media actively engaged their activism to fight ‘bad orange man’ at the cost of thousands of lives. Shame on them."
https://archive.is/ONUmi#selection-343.0-343.332
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 1:56pm
for the lupus sufferers
Here's what I would personally do if I had lupus and did not have access to my medication. Therapeutic fasting for several days (water only) followed by a healthy plant only vegetarian diet (i.e. no lacto-ovo). Acta Physiological Scandinavica published a paper years ago from Karolinska Institutet comparing various treatments for rheumatoid arthritis. Turns out, the most effective one was therapeutic fasting followed by a vegetarian diet. Also turns out, this protocol was helpful for other similar auto-immune diseases like lupus and (true) fibromyalgia. This isn't medical advice, just something I would personally try if my back was to the wall. YMMV.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 2:03pm
Stock market and mortgage crisis chat?
Is there a stock and mortgage crisis chat somewhere? Didn’t want to high jack a virus thread but I can’t seem to find a current chat. Thanks!
Healthcare related, here are some doc interviews I have found interesting: https://youtu.be/k9GYTc53r2o
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 2:04pm
Another doc
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 2:18pm
Jim etal
Hey Jim
This is anecdotal and from me some anonymous doofus who has no medical credibility whatsoever, so believe it if you wish.
I just got in from an emergency Dermatologist appt. I had 2 very painful boils that need to be lanced. (I think one was a brown recluse bite). As the good doctor was cutting on me I casually asked what he was hearing about Sars cov 2. The very first words out of his mouth were " I am hearing very good things about Hydroxychloroquine" I swear I did not prompt him. We chatted about it for quite awhile. He said "all the media hysteria against it is bullshit " I was in no position to fall out of the chair but was pretty surprised at his leaving his professional decorum by the side of the road and letting fly.
He said it is an extremely safe drug and dermatologists actually prescribe it. Now I found that pretty surprising but we did not have time to get into all of that. He was definitely of the opinion that it should be widely used.
It occurs to me we should be talking to our doctors about this.
As a matter of fact I think we should be contacting our doctors, hospitals, clinics etc to find out what their protocol is before we find ourselves at their mercy. Remember once you end up in a hospital you are not free.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 2:18pm
If the shoe fits, wear it
"Maybe the clinical trials will be ready in 12 weeks. "
I feel like I am in Cheech and Chung nightmare. Listening to this lady reminds me of a book I read (I was a stockbroker) the Tao Jones Theory - something like that - where the author talked about left-side brain thinking versus right-side brain thinking.
I am constantly amazed that we collectively have allowed ourselves to give up all our freedoms without the slightest objection. A remedy is found - we critise the doctor for not doing scientific testing. Other doctors use it - it works - but the academedics who get paid big grants by Big Pharma tell us - Gotta wait 12 weeks. If the arguments against the usage of hydroxychloroquine is that you would deprive Lupus patients from their drugs - THAT BEGS A QUESTION !! Are there ANY Lupus patients with COVID-19. Common Big Government - that's not alot to ask.
My daughter just told me that our deconfinement is now is planned for May 11th - we have already lived 3 weeks of confinement. The number of new cases in France is plateauing except for a one day jump when they added all the cases from old folks homes.
By that time the economy will be ruined. The Blackrock guys of this world will be hovering overhead. Perhaps we'll talk tomorrow together.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 2:24pm
CREATION OF A FALSE EPIDEMIC by Jon Rappoport
https://youtu.be/zbjQ1sC0ahkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbjQ1sC0ahk
Have you watched or read any of Jon's information. He makes a lot of sense to me, and in the articles cited on his website, he shows that there really isn't a a good test for this virus and that they are likely misdiagnosing a lot of people in order to "prove" that there really is a danger here. We'd better get this right, because a lot of economies are tanking, and if it turns out to be a hoax, or even just a huge mistake, the longer we let this go, the worse it will be. I don't have time to wade through all the comments on this site, but I just wondered if Chris is aware of the ideas that Jon is putting forth.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 2:24pm
HCQ and Dermatology
30 seconds and I found the link for HCQ and dermatology.
https://dermnetnz.org/topics/hydroxychloroquine/
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 2:42pm
Getting my doctor up to speed
Yeah, Mohammed, I agree. We need to take the initiative here for ourselves. I am going to contact my own doctor tomorrow and ask him what he knows about the Zelenko protocol. My doc is pretty open to alternative medicine and is a very thoughtful guy, so I will tell him that it is what I want him to prescribe for me if I get this virus. I think he will say "fine", but if he drags his feet, he may stop being my doc until we are past this thing. 🙂
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 3:17pm
#64 Rappoport = hoaxes
A problem with an "anyone can post anything" forum is the lack of fact checking / screening for posts. Mr. Rappoport, recommended by the comment in #64, has a long history of promoting hoaxes. The best way to get hoaxes believed is to mix a small amount of facts to bait the reader into believing the rest of the claims.
Of course, viruses don't care about anyone's opinions.
Critical thinking is part of the antidote.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 3:27pm
"You shouldnt worry about coronavirus , you should worry about the flu"
Remember those people. I really wonder what all those people who said that and PUBLISHED that crap have to say now.. Basically, harming or killing tons of americans.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 4:02pm
mohammad your dermatologist is right
I have heard the exact same from my cousin, who is a specialty just as loose. And he said the same about 3 weeks ago. The protocol of Hydroxychlor..... with zpak, AND zinc sulfate crushes this virus. I am not sure what is going on. The chinese said they had good results with it.. Several other doctors have confirmed. Not sure why its not standard protocol , OH wait.. its in harms way , of those who can profit by have a much more exclusive , lucrative FDA approved therapy. So , many will die to protect that interest. Except for the few doctors who's Hippocratic oath will not let them fail the patient for money.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 4:03pm
Interesting video from professor wittkowski
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 4:03pm
Masks not tests are statistically more valuable
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/data-suggest-masks-matter-tests-dont.php
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 4:15pm
Professor Wittkowski
So, “it’s just the flu” and China is entirely transparent. Ok.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 4:19pm
RebelYell said:
Noridcjack is spot on when he notes this: "Several other doctors have confirmed. Not sure why its not standard protocol , OH wait.. its in harms way , of those who can profit by have a much more exclusive , lucrative FDA approved therapy. So , many will die to protect that interest. Except for the few doctors who’s Hippocratic oath will not let them fail the patient for money."
In my view it might be a lot worse than that. I am deeply suspicious that there has been a deliberate propaganda campaign to convince everybody that this disease is far, far worse than it actually is. And social distancing was imposed to ensure that the disease hangs around for months instead of all being over in a few weeks.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 4:23pm
Re: Rappaport ... Don't Bother to Examine a Folly.
As Ayn Rand wrote, "'But there's always a purpose in nonsense. Don't bother to examine a folly--ask yourself only what it accomplishes. "
As for the Pandemic, JP Hassman tweeted the other day something like, "If the crash happens on the day that an organ grinder's monkey throws a coconut at the bronze bull on Wall Street, they will blame the crash on the monkey."
SARS-CoV 2 is the current monkey. The inevitable crash of the system will be blamed on a virus.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 4:28pm
Chris' newest video, live now: "Coronavirus Cases: Turning The Corner?" (4/6/20)
Coronavirus Cases: Turning The Corner? (4/6/20)
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 4:51pm
Reply to Credenda
Yes - it's the flu. Probably worse than the average 'flu - maybe as bad as the Hong Kong 'flu, but nothing like the Spanish 'flu for example. There is almost no way to look at the data and conclude anything else at this point.
Italy didn't implement social distancing until the virus was running wild in Northern Italy. It's almost impossible that less than 5% of the population were exposed which would be 3 million people. My guess is that that number is more like 20 million people. Only 16,000 deaths. EDIT - upon reflection I think 20 million is probably too high. But I would take a large bet that the number's in the millions.
Sweden never implemented a lockdown. A country with 10 million people. 400 deaths so far. My guess is they will end up with less than 20,000 deaths in total for an IFR of 0.2% or thereabouts. They will hit peak in the next few weeks - let's see what happens.
In London, based on the people I know, about 1 in 5 has had symptoms which probably means 50% of the population has been exposed (maybe more). That's ~5 million people with only 5,000 deaths in the whole of the UK.
Wuhan - at the height of the epidemic 60% of tests were coming back positive. They achieved herd immunity. Even if there were ten times as many dead as the Chinese are admitting to, that's still an IFR of under 0.25%
In The US we're going to get a second wave as a result of our foolish lockdowns, and not only have we damaged the economy, we will actually have more deaths than if we had protected the vulnerable and the rest of us carried as normal.
This whole thing is/was a monstrous fraud. It's possible it was the result merely of panic and politicians who have no mathematical ability. It's also more than possible that we have been played by people with an agenda.
How convenient that
- Event 201 was held right as the epidemic was getting started
- A number of wealthy, politically connected people were given a heads up to sell their stocks and bonds
- A massive bailout has been provided to Wall St. and Big Corporation World.
- The press and social media co-ordinated a hysterical campaign based not on any sensible evaluation of the evidence but on appalling misapplication of what should have been well-understood statistics. e.g. Equating CFR with IFR
- Testing (the one thing that might have given us good data early on) was conveniently crippled in larger countries including the US and UK thus guaranteeing bad data and misleading statistics. Statistics from those countries which did a good job (e.g. Iceland, and to a lesser extent Singapore, S. Korea and Germany) are glossed over or utterly ignored.
- Deaths are systematically overcounted by including people who died of other causes just because they alos tested positive for Covid-19
- Bill Gates is now politicking to gain acceptance for mandatory vaccination and a digital vaccine certificate as "the solution".
Comparing apples to apples:
Seasonal 'flu CFR = 10% (IFR estimated 0.1%)
Covid-19 CFR = 5% (IFR ... ?)
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 7:07pm
Interesting!
I'm intrigued what Chris might be referring to concerning the numbers being low in the U.S.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 7:11pm
Ahem..
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 8:22pm
German intensive care numbers
You can see every intensive care unit in Germany here, together with current space avalaibility the number of COVID-19 patients.
https://www.intensivregister.de/#/intensivregister
Plenty of spare capacity.
As an aside, you gotta love them Germans for being organized like this :-). It would never happen here!
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 8:38pm
Ivermectin in humans
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 8:39pm
Powerful video
That is an amazing video. Long but if you have doubts that this crisis is real, you need to watch this. If you are interested in the treatment side of this, it will scare the sh!t out of you what his guest tells about her time at her hospital.
She was blunt at one point, when she said, if PPE disappears, she quits. And no she doesn't think that she should be expected to kill herself for a predatory sickcare system that don't give a sh!t about her or other HCW.
ADDED: The doctor interviewed says NO to Ibuprofen or Aleve.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 8:46pm
MERS, SARS study with ivermectin: study's 6 and 7
Not promoting it. Just looking up the info, and sharing
https://steemkr.com/health/@pomeline/ivermectin-a-possible-treatment-of-coronaviruses-and-ncov
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 9:30pm
At Least The Lawyers Will Have work when This Is Over
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/02/825200206/doctors-say-hospitals-are-stopping-them-from-wearing-masks
I see lots and lots of law suits coming.
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Mon, Apr 06, 2020 - 10:07pm
Suay Sewing Mask Article
Per the latest video, here is the article about the blue shop towel material for mask filters.
https://www.businessinsider.com/homemade-mask-using-hydro-knit-shop-towel-filters-better-2020-4
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Tue, Apr 07, 2020 - 12:06am
dt - that is as real as it gets
Dr Gordon rocks. she is smart and she is genuine and straight shooter. You wont get more real than that.
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Wed, Apr 08, 2020 - 6:59am
Your assertion that Jon Rappaport promotes hoaxes.
What are your sources of information that substantiate your claim that Jon Rappaport "has a long history of promoting hoaxes". I find him to very credible. He is a journalist who actually does the homework before he writes an article.
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Wed, Apr 08, 2020 - 11:05am
Hope John's now whistlin' and fishin' in Heaven
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G487EDeXadA&list=PLQVnQN4_pN5nOO_5s4XXYwIA5p3ZAJJw0&index=2
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Wed, Apr 08, 2020 - 11:11am
John Prine has passed over--to our great loss and sorrow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnMNBTc1DQU&list=PLQVnQN4_pN5nOO_5s4XXYwIA5p3ZAJJw0
Yeah, a happy enchilada and you think you're gonna drown...
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Thu, Apr 09, 2020 - 8:59am
Doctors, Don't Use Ventilators
We've been noticing that most patients that go on ventilators do worse and don't make it. Maybe we are making the wrong assumptions about putting people on ventilators in the first place.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/08/doctors-say-ventilators-overused-for-covid-19/
Maybe the low O2 level we have been taking as critical data is wrong taking into account the new data on iron and blood cells?
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Thu, Apr 09, 2020 - 10:19am
Summary of the Case for HCQ Prophyllaxis for HCWs
Found a nice summary article in a journal aimed at ophthalmologists. A couple of you have asked for a summary of the evidence to give to a primary doctor. This would be a good link for this purpose.
https://crstoday.com/articles/not-rated/hydroxychloroquine-for-the-treatment-and-prevention-of-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR2PailCyUfADoyC_OHOYnGr2Conoqt5wIKXIRDpOuBE2ivgWduJXjU-TDo
Hydroxychloroquine for the Treatment and Prevention of COVID-19
A review of the evidence and an explanation of why this drug is a crucial element of prophylaxis for health care workers.
William B. Trattler, MD; Gary Wörtz, MD; and Sean Ianchulev, MD, MPH
Social distancing. Physical distancing. Governmental orders to stay at home. One of the greatest pandemics in the history of the modern world—coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), caused by the severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2)—has essentially shut down the world’s economy. The reasons underlying these drastic responses are that COVID-19 is easily transmissible; infected individuals are often asymptomatic for a week or more; a small but real percentage of infected patients will end up in hospital intensive care units (ICUs), overwhelming the health care system; and there is a high mortality rate in hospitalized patients because of a cytokine storm that can lead to multisystem organ failure.
There are currently no proven therapies to treat or prevent this novel viral infection. Once contracted, patients—regardless of age or health status—are at risk of hospitalization and even death from COVID-19.
World leaders have advised their citizens to avoid travel, stay at home, and prevent unnecessary contact with others. These measures are especially important for the elderly, the immunocompromised, and infants.1
ON THE FRONT LINES
Health care workers on the front lines of the COVID-19 outbreak continue to care for patients. These providers are often in harm’s way because of a severe shortage of personal protective equipment (PPE). In a recent survey of more than 1,000 hospital and health care representatives, almost half said they were completely or almost out of respirator masks and face shields. Even the supply of hand sanitizer, gowns, and gloves is reaching a critical low.2
Health care workers, because they are in close proximity to patients, are at a high risk of developing COVID-19. A study conducted in Wuhan, China, found that 29% of patients admitted to the hospital from January 1 to January 28 were health care providers.3
All nonessential health care has been put on hold during this crisis, and ophthalmologists and optometrists are only providing urgent and emergent care. Unfortunately, it is impossible to know for sure whether or not a patient being seen for an eye emergency has COVID-19. Every patient encounter increases the provider’s risk of exposure. The requirement for eye care providers to be physically close to patients to perform an eye examination (Figure 1) has led to a high number of eye care providers to test positive for COVID-19.4
Figure 1. Ophthalmologists and optometrists must sit in close proximity to patients when performing eye exams. Even with face masks and a clear protective shield attached to the oculars of the slit lamp, the close proximity increases the chance of exposure to COVID-19.
HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE FOR PROPHYLAXIS
In a positive development, basic science studies and clinical research support the use of hydroxychloroquine for both prophylaxis and therapeutic treatment of COVID-19. Hydroxychloroquine is a widely available generic medication that is approved by the FDA. The drug has a good safety profile and a very long half-life, and it is commonly used for a variety of indications, including the treatment of lupus and rheumatoid arthritis and the prevention and treatment of malaria.
Basic science studies. Initial research focused on chloroquine, a similar drug to hydroxychloroquine. Performed after the SARS epidemic caused by coronavirus more than 15 years ago,5 the research showed that chloroquine demonstrated antiviral activity against SARS-CoV in vitro. Hydroxychloroquine, which has a better safety profile than chloroquine, has also demonstrated in vitro efficacy against SARS-CoV.6
Earlier this year, after the outbreak of COVID-19 in China, clinicians there noticed that none of the first 178 COVID-19 patients admitted to the hospital had lupus.7 The clinicians then evaluated 80 lupus patients treated in the hospital’s dermatology department and found that none was infected with COVID-19. This observation prompted researchers to evaluate hydroxychloroquine in vitro for the treatment and prevention of COVID-19. Not only did hydroxychloroquine treat cells infected with the virus that causes COVID-19, but the drug also protected cells from becoming infected.8
This research provides basic science evidence that hydroxychloroquine should be considered for both the prevention and treatment of COVID-19.
Clinical research. Clinical research suggests that hydroxychloroquine alone and potentially in conjunction with the antibiotic azithromycin can be used to treat patients with COVID-19.
A report published online ahead of print in February indicated that the early clinical experience with both hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine for patients with COVID-19 was very positive.9 In a more recent randomized study from China that evaluated 62 hospitalized patients with COVID-19, 80.6% (25 of 31) treated with hydroxychloroquine 200 mg twice per day for 5 days experienced an improvement in their pneumonia (as evaluated by computed tomography scan) versus 54% (17 of 31) of COVID-19 patients on placebo.7 Fever was also eliminated more rapidly (2.2 vs 3.2 days) in treated versus untreated patients, respectively.
Based on the in vitro activity of hydroxychloroquine on SARS-CoV-2, Didier Raoult, MD, PhD, of Marseille Medical School in France, initiated two clinical trials. The first, an open-label nonrandomized study, enrolled 36 hospitalized patients with confirmed COVID-19.10 Of the 20 who were treated with 600 mg hydroxychloroquine for 10 days, six also received azithromycin 500 mg on the first day, followed by 250 mg daily for 4 additional days. On day 6 (Figure 2), more polymerase chain reaction swabs in nasopharyngeal samples from patients on chloroquine (57.1%) or chloroquine plus azithromycin (100%) tested negative compared to those obtained from the control group (12.5%).
Figure 2. Results from the open-label nonrandomized clinical trial by Dr. Raoult, which found that hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin had a higher percentage of virologic cure at day 6, as determined by a negative polymerase chain reaction.
In the second study by Dr. Raoult, 80 consecutive patients were treated with a combination of oral hydroxychloroquine 600 mg administered daily for 10 days and azithromycin 500 mg administered on the first day, followed by 250 mg daily for 4 additional days.11 Because the combination of these two drugs can induce an arrhythmia, patients were given a baseline electrocardiogram, followed by a second one on day 2 of treatment. No patient developed a cardiac arrythmia. Of the patients, 81.3% were discharged from the hospital (mean time, 5 days). The health of two of the three patients transferred to the ICU improved, and they were subsequently able to leave the ICU. One patient died before being transferred to the ICU. Overall, the nasopharyngeal swabs obtained from 93% of patients on day 10 of treatment tested negative.
LONG HALF-LIFE, BUT POTENTIAL DOWNSIDE
There is now a strong interest in the use of hydroxychloroquine for both treatment and prevention of COVID-19. One unique characteristic of hydroxychloroquine is its long half-life (40 days). In other words, after taking a prescribed amount of the drug, it takes more than 6 weeks for the level of hydroxychloroquine found in the body to drop by 50%. Therefore, individuals who are placed on hydroxychloroquine will have it in their system for a prolonged time.
The main downside of hydroxychloroquine therapy is the uncommon but serious risk of a cardiac arrythmia due to QT prolongation. A risk-scoring system that has been developed can help physicians determine a patient’s risk of drug-induced QT prolongation.12
HOW IT WORKS
With a growing body of evidence supporting hydroxycholroquine’s clinical effectiveness against COVID-19, it is helpful to explore how it actually works. Hydroxychloroquine is believed to have a dual mechanism of action against COVID-19 and potentially a third immunomodulating effect.
Understanding the basic science on how hydroxychloroquine works in COVID-19 provides compelling support on why this medication should be considered for both prophylaxis and treatment.
DRUG AVAILABILITY
Although many countries have been waiting for clinical trial results, in January, Malaysia started treating COVID-19 patients routinely with hydroxychloroquine.16 Italy has now also begun providing hydroxychloroquine to all patients who are diagnosed with COVID-19.17 Multiple clinical trials are ongoing in the United States, including an observational study that is attempting to enroll more than 1,000 patients in New York. In the meantime, the FDA has issued an Emergency Use Authorization for hydroxychloroquine, which allows physicians to prescribe hydroxychloroquine to hospitalized patients.18
A number of pharmaceutical companies have increased production of hydroxychloroquine. On March 29, Sandoz, a division of Novartis, provided 30 million tablets to the US Department of Health and Human Services.19 Plenty of raw materials are also available to continue manufacturing hydroxychloroquine for the US population.
ON THE FRONT LINES
First responders and health care workers such as nurses, technicians, and physicians who are caring for patients who may have COVID-19 should speak with their own doctors and consider the risks and benefits of prophylactic hydroxychloroquine therapy.
Because individuals infected with COVID-19 can remain asymptomatic for 5 to 10 days, first responders and health care workers may not realize they are infected and can thus unknowingly transmit COVID-19 to their patients, coworkers, and family. It is important to know that infected individuals can experience atypical symptoms that include conjunctivitis, diarrhea, heart pain (angina), and a loss of taste or smell (anosmia). Health care workers who know that they have been exposed to a patient with COVID-19 but who have not tested positive for the virus can consider joining an ongoing randomized clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine prophylaxis sponsored by the University of Minnesota.
CONCLUSION
A growing body of evidence suggests that hydroxychloroquine can be used for both prophylaxis and treatment in individuals infected with COVID-19. The optimal dose of the drug is unknown, but a review of the basic science and clinical research indicates that a dose of 400 mg daily for 5 to 6 days, followed by 400 mg once per week can serve as prophylaxis. For patients with a confirmed COVID-19 infection, the French protocol of oral hydroxychloroquine 600 mg daily for 10 days plus azithromycin 500 mg on the first day, followed by 250 mg daily for 4 additional days, can be considered. Since this combination increases the risk of an arrhythmia, consultation with one’s physician before initiating this regimen is important. Other therapies such as vitamin C, vitamin B3, and zinc may also play a role in prophylaxis and treatment.
Rather than wait for symptoms to develop, it may be beneficial to achieve a therapeutic level of hydroxychloroquine in one’s system if there is an increased risk for exposure, such as in first responders, health care workers, or someone who came into contact with a COVID-19–positive individual. The hope is that the hydroxychloroquine onboard would minimize the severity of the COVID-19 infection and reduce the chance of requiring hospitalization.
Because treatment with hydroxychloroquine has been shown in clinical studies to rapidly shorten the period in which patients test positive for COVID-19,7 therapy may also shorten the number of days that these patients can transmit the infection to others. If so, this would be of critical benefit to first responders and health care workers who are at high risk of exposure and whose rapid recovery can allow them to resume serving the public during this crisis. Risk of toxicity, such as retinal toxicity, is relatively low with short-term use of hydroxychloroquine. Nevertheless, the higher initial COVID-19 dosing of the drug and the evolving paradigms of treatment duration—particularly if used multiple times for postexposure prophylaxis—may warrant caution and necessitate preemptive evaluation with a baseline retinal function testing and follow-on monitoring.
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Mon, Apr 13, 2020 - 3:48pm
Last mortality data from Italy
Here the last mortality data from "Istituto Superiore della Sanità" (technical-scientific body of the National Health Service in Italy): it carries out research, experimentation and training on health issues.
Statistics based on 16.000 cases.
https://www.epicentro.iss.it/en/coronavirus/bollettino/Report-COVID-2019_9_april_2020.pdf
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Mon, May 18, 2020 - 4:56pm
Good News on the Human Immune Response to the Coronavirus by By Derek Lowe 15 May, 2020
Well rounded article. Mature comments.
Link: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/05/15/good-news-on-the-human-immune-response-to-the-coronavirus
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