Hydro-electric plant 500KW FSBO.....

hydrodog
By hydrodog on Wed, Mar 19, 2014 - 4:15am

I'm will to talk to anyone who wants to do a hydro or solar....   pick the brain of someone who has done it....

That said ... I no longer want to be in New England .... I've already started my relocation ....  but I have a house and this hydro plant to sell.... 

We built this plant and developed our property with the idea hard times were coming ... but even though I'm in a good position ....I want a warmer climate and don't want to be to old to get another enterprise going in my new location... 

So here's an opportunity for the right person....   Plant  capacity is 500KW-HRS a year....   I'm selling for the price of a new turbine and generator today.   Over 1,750,000 KW-HRS and over $185K for 2013.   Price of electric power is increasing ... so revenues should grow... and you can alway have a good water year.

You get an operating plant that would cost about 3 million to build today...if you could get the approvals.... It includes :  the property ... a 45' dropping series of waterfalls ... the dam... civil works.... the equipment ... all contracts ...license to operate.... a turnkey operation ...

I will be available for 30 days after the closing to assist/train the new owners free of charge.  

 

 

 

16 Comments

MyBackAchers's picture
MyBackAchers
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: May 27 2013
Posts: 26
Details?

Humm, that sounds interesting except my 400 watt wind generator can produce 1,000 Kw in a year. 

You are correct in that hard times are coming and for several reasons -economic cliff edge, energy decline starts in a few years if not sooner and then there are all the unforeseen problems of weather and such. 

But, since you are interested in a move to a warmer climate, feel free to post pictures and details of the property.

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 7 2007
Posts: 5752
Where is it located?

I agree some more details would be helpful...I'm not sure I followed your calculations...did you write that you produced 1.75 Gwhrs in 2013 and sold that wholesale to the grid for $185k?

Next, where is this located?  If that's too specific for you, what's the nearest large city/town and how far away is it?

Third, does the property include living quarters?  How much land?  Any of it arable?  

MyBackAchers's picture
MyBackAchers
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: May 27 2013
Posts: 26
HydroDog

I certainly understand the frustration of getting ready for whatever comes next in that nothing is as it was planned.

i bought this little parcel in 2007 and 7 years later I am still trying to figure out how to make it produce enough food to sell and enough energy to get through the roughest of times gracefully. 

But that's what this website is for-to keep learning and sharing then to put it into practice. 

The struggle against the weather, the economy and other peoples denial of the present situation can and will discourage everyone here at one time or another.

hydrodog's picture
hydrodog
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 14 2008
Posts: 22
Hydro FSBO

Chris and others ... Plant is located about 50 miles north of Bernardston, Ma....

1 1/4 acre of land .... room to park a travel trailer but property is mostly pond and gorge.... property has been landscaped but no land for crops....   No house .... no septic.....

My contract is to sell energy ... and green credits.... that is why I made good with the plant last year ..... With the price of natural gas going up ... my revenues will increase ....  51% of all electricity in NE is now made from Natural Gas....   You are smart people figure it out ....

I built this plant for hard times .... we also have a home seperate ...with fruit trees and gardens....enough wood  on proprety for heat ... 6 acres ...

Will be selling both home and plant ... seperately or together ....   FSBO....

If anyone wants more info .... my email is .... [email protected]

hydrodog's picture
hydrodog
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 14 2008
Posts: 22
Contract for sale almost in place ....

My buyer is a site member and has committed to a purchase .... I will still answer questions if contacted ....

This plant makes ... depending on weather ...the heat equivalent( BTU's) of  approximately 50,000 gals of diesel fuel oil.a year.

I reread my original post ... got a typo or two ... but I'm sure most can see the error.

hydrodog's picture
hydrodog
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 14 2008
Posts: 22
Panels ...solar PV at higher latitudes...

I'm at about 43 degrees latitude ... my panels are well worth it ... A DIY installation where the solar installers don't skim all the cream and alot of the milk is the way to go....

If you size the system right never need a back up generator....    And even if BC has lots of hydro power its always good to have your own ...   there is always going to be local outages at some point ...   Cost of electric power is on the rise everywhere...    In ten years an installation will more than pay for itself at present rates .... even without any type of green credit....  all the sooner with free government money.

MyBackAchers's picture
MyBackAchers
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: May 27 2013
Posts: 26
Solar up north

I, for one, saw how amazing solar can work up north because if the panels are placed right, the snow bounces the light for 2-5 times more solar gain.  Most people think solar in the north is a pipe dream, but like I said, if the panels catch sun bouncing off the snow it can be  very worth it.

AKGrannyWGrit's picture
AKGrannyWGrit
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 6 2011
Posts: 474
Solar Up North

I agree with MyBackAchers, solar up north can work. March is actually a great month for solar up here as the days are getting longer and the snow reflects the sun.  We don't much care about the length of time for the return on an investment in solar.  The question is does it make sense, and would we rather be at the mercy of someone else for our power or rely on ourselves and our investment.

AK Granny

 

silvervarg's picture
silvervarg
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 28 2010
Posts: 57
Re: Solar up north

No, you don't get 2-5 times more solar due to bounce on snow.

I live up north (Sweden) and use solar panels so I have studied the problem a bit and have some practical experience, including what effect snow has. 

Looking at it from a theoretical point of view and assuming flat land the best teoretical bounce assuming 100% reflection (a perfect mirror) would give you 2 times the energy hitting the solar panel.

Assuming you have your solar panel at an angle towards the sun the reflection will come in from a less favorable angle, so this will reduce the efficiency of the bounce a bit.

All in all it will be great if you get 50% extra efficiency from the bounced light, so 1.5 times will be in the realistic range.

To get any higher you would need to have the landscape buildt closer to a parabolic shape to concentrate solar rays better.

 

tjwilhelm's picture
tjwilhelm
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 28 2009
Posts: 15
Silvervarg is correct...

Thanks for adding a voice of experience to the conversation, silvervarg.

Silvervarg is correct; but, I think maybe still a bit generous with estimated outputs.

The output current of a PV array is directly related to irradiance and inversely related to cell temperature (effected by ambient temperature, wind speed, and irradiance).

Effective irradiance can be increased by reflectance from adjacent snow cover; BUT, remember that the incident angle of the radiation striking the PV array will be far from optimal, greatly reducing its impact.  Thus, I think silvervarg's 1.5 multiplier is still too optimistic.  In order to optimize performance, the array needs to aligned so the direct solar radiation hits the array at an incidence angle as close to 0-degrees (as perpendicular) as possible.  Even still, unless you have a tracking array, you'll rarely achieve this level of perfect solar incidence angle.  Thus, you will rarely have an electrical output that meets, let alone exceeds, the nameplate rating of your PV modules.

There is an advantage to be gained by reflectance off the snow; but, do not try to increase the irradiance on the array too much, using parabolic reflectors, or whatever.  This will cause a temperature rise on the modules that can lead to damage.  Additionally, as cell temperature rises, output voltage drops...ouch!

Solar absolutely will work in the north!  Germany has the same solar-irradiance resource as Alaska, yet they are well ahead of the U.S. in kWhrs produced with solar PV.

MyBackAchers's picture
MyBackAchers
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: May 27 2013
Posts: 26
Parabolic Experience

Though any increased output is a plus when it comes to solar inputs, I think what hydro explained as a parabolic experience might have been what was going on. The lake reflected onto the east, then west valley in front of the house. Once snow hit the ground, triple the heat output. And, since solar panels are at the lowest angle at that time of year, they caught the most rays.

Good discussion and whenever I hear about solar panels in northern climates I have to say something on this effect. Maybe not 5 times the result, but definitely a plus.

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 7 2007
Posts: 5752
It's the temperature

I don't think solar rays bouncing off the snow is  the dominant explanation for increased solar gain during winter months.

For my money, the answer lies in this chart, which is a typical representation of solar cell efficiency as a function of temperature.

As you can see, there's a very large effect.

So the combination of longer days plus cold weather are probably the strongest drivers of solar gain in the month of March for northern solar installations.

Snow might contribute a little bit, but the angle of incidence of light bouncing from snow I might suspect to be very suboptimal for much solar gain.  Most would probably reflect off, but that's just my intuition speaking, I have not studied that at all so I am open to being surprised.

Last note:  where you might look at the above chart and think that doesn't apply to me, it never gets to 50C around here, that is the temperature of the solar cells which get much hotter than ambient air temp because they absorb light.  It's kinda one of their main features....

Wendy S. Delmater's picture
Wendy S. Delmater
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 13 2009
Posts: 1988
solar panel heat gain

Fascinating conversation. So in the Deep South  we can expect lowered PV efficiencies in the summer with our routinely 100 F/40-50 C air temperature, eh? Nice to know since this is the year we are putting the rest of our panels in. They will be positioned to catch as much breeze as possible, but there's a reason we are not doing wind power.

At least our winters will be merry and bright, even if our Christmases will not (usually) be white.

Damon's picture
Damon
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 7 2014
Posts: 1
Hydrodog's Hydro Site

Hydrodog - Is your site still available? If so do you have stats and pictures, etc.?

Thanks,

 

Damon

hydrodog's picture
hydrodog
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 14 2008
Posts: 22
Thanks for the interest in hydro....

I have people still asking if my site is for sale.....It has been sold.   Am now fixing my home for sale now.... so that I can do the Atlas Shugged thing ... go overseas ....live cheaper and utilize the foreign earned income exclusion....  

Anyone care to discuss ???   

hydroman10's picture
hydroman10
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 26 2016
Posts: 1
WANTING TO BUY HYDRO SMALL PLANT UNDER 5MW

 I NEED SMALL MW HYDRO PLANT UNDER 5MW, HAVE TO BE PERMITED, IN HAND.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments