Seeking Community Support for My Personal Weight-Loss Goals

Adam Taggart
By Adam Taggart on Tue, Oct 8, 2013 - 1:42am

Research shows that one of the most powerful success factors for achieving and maintaining weight-loss is an effective support network.

I'd like to put that to the test.

I'm in OK shape, but like most middle-aged men, I have some stubborn pounds around the middle I'd like to get rid of. I'm hoping the PP.com community can help me do that, as well as then keep the weight off.

I have 2 goals:

  • Get my weight down below 190 pounds
  • Stay under 190 for a month

I figure if I can achieve both, I'll have developed enough good habits and discipline to have decent odds of staying at my target weight.

I'm a little under 6'2" tall and currently weigh 205 lbs. Given a target weight of 189 lbs, I'm looking to shed ~7.8% of my body weight. That doesn't strike me as unreasonable, especially if I take a gradual approach (i.e., several months).

Research also indicates that weight-loss primarily occurs from dieting, helped along in no small part by a good exercise regime. Once you've achieved your target weight, exercise then switches to become the primary means of staying there.

My diet is pretty good, though not perfect. One of my worst offenses is that the majority of my calories are consumed late in the day. I hardly ever eat before noon. I'll be working to kick-start my metabolism earlier in the day with breakfast, as well as tapering my caloric intake as the day goes on.

I get some exercise almost every day, though there's certainly room for the duration, intensity and variety to increase. I plan to bump up the tennis and bike riding, and resume strength training.

My biggest obstacle is the sedentary time in front of the computer that keeping PP.com running demands. Which is one big reason why I'm enlisting this community's help. I'm hoping you will remind me that stepping away from the computer to squeeze in a quick re-energizing workout will be to both our interests.

I'll update this thread with news of progress towards my goals. My hope is, with your help, we can validate the research cited above.

And if I do indeed hit my targets, my hope is that others will start using this group for similar benefit. But if you don't want to wait for the results, feel free to jump in and join me in working towards your own goals!

Thanks in advance for your support.

cheers,

A

Note: If you're reading this and are not yet a member of Peak Prosperity's Healthy Living Group, please consider joining it now. It's where our supportive community shares information, inspiration and encouragement to help each other become healthier and more fit. Simply go here and click the "Join Today" button.

78 Comments

Amanda Witman's picture
Amanda Witman
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Posts: 409
Good luck, Adam!

Sounds reasonable and smart.

I've been reshaping my own health habits for the past couple of months.  Slowly but surely, it's making a difference.  I turned 40 this year and with that came some heavy awareness that if I don't make some important self-care changes now, I will later regret not doing so. 

I have become a runner.  I was never a runner, ever.  In fact, I was never much of an exerciser.  I have a routine that I follow several times a week (goal is every day) that includes stretching, running, and fiddling.  (Yep, the fiddling is also an important form of self-care for me -- your mileage may vary, but I think everyone can benefit from something they do daily that brings them joy.)  Once I've done those things, I can more easily give myself over to everything else that demands my attention and/or my sedentariness.

I chose running because it's virtually free, convenient, and there are no obstacles (except perhaps weather, and I'm thinking of alternatives for when blizzard season sets in).  No need to schedule, find a partner, or drive my car anywhere to do it.  (Although, for me, it did require the purchase of a good, supportive jog-bra.)

I started by walking.  I couldn't run; my heart and lungs weren't up to it.  Then I started interspersing short spurts of running in between walking -- I'd run until my heart beat out of my chest or I felt my lungs working too hard, and then I'd walk until it all calmed down, and then run again.

I felt ridiculous.  But I also figured that anyone else who saw me who was as out of shape as I was would be cheering me on and maybe even be inspired.  (Oh look, there goes an overweight middle-aged mom running slowly in outdated sweats and ratty sneakers!  I can do that.)  It actually helped me to know that a friend and neighbor made a huge lifestyle change and went from being morbidly obese to being a running addict.  I'm not hitting those extremes, but it has been awesome seeing her out running and hearing her talk about how great she feels.

Anyway, after several weeks of walk/running, one day I ran a mile without walking.

The next day I upped the ante and ran a mile and a half without walking.  There's a nice 1.6 mi flat loop in my neighborhood, and I'm sticking to that distance for now.  Some people might scoff and others marvel.  It doesn't matter to me; it's working for me, and I have kept up the habit for a couple of months now.  I aim to be comfortable in my body and fitting back into my favorite clothes by Christmas.

Telling friends and neighbors about it has kept me accountable.  My kids are keeping me accountable.  And now you all know.  So, no turning back.

All that is to say, Go, Adam!  I'm right here with you.

lunableu22's picture
lunableu22
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Posts: 41
Inspirational reading material (in a horrifying sort of way)

Hey Adam:  Good on you.

First an anecdote:  I cut bread out of my diet for about 3-4 weeks.  I have no idea how many lbs melted away since I don't use scales.  What I noticed was an overall loss of padding all over my body.  And no one would think I'm overweight to look at me.  Only I know how "not skinny" I am.

So, after having found "Salt Sugar Fat:  How the Food Giants Hooked Us" by Michael Moss on my Nook (a hand-me-down from family), I now know why all those inches disappeared.  Every slice of commercially made bread is jammed packed with sugar.  So now I only eat artisan bread, if I eat bread at all.  It actually feels great to only eat (for my body type) proteins and veggies and fruit.  My energy levels skyrocketed and best of all, those pesky aches and pains went away; you know, the ones caused by inflammation from eating crap that poisons your cells.  My advice is to avoid all processed food, since cheese is added to increase fat content, and hidden fat leads to over-consumption since our brains don't have a fat governor.  This book is especially impressive to me because it is very approachable and also includes the biochemistry that explains why we respond as we do to blatantly unhealthy "foods".

I also started going outside barefoot to do chicken chores, and that is also subtlety energizing.  Yeah, my feet were tender at first, but that gets better pretty quick, too.

Enjoy your journey.  It's so worth it.

Luna

 

 

 

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Online)
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Posts: 1758
I'll join you!

Similar story at my house, Adam.  209 pounds with a healthy target weight of about 185.  In years past when I got down to 185, my cholesterol normalized, obstructive sleep apnea resolved and pre-diabetes disappeared.  And I could run and bicycle with my more athletic friends again.

So I'll join you on this project.  And good luck.

:-)

Jim H's picture
Jim H
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Posts: 2379
Seconding Luna, and going even further - eliminate ALL WHEAT

Adam,  One of the most important personal discoveries I have made this year is the work of Dr. William Davis, a practicing cardiologist.  His 2012 book "wheatbelly" is revelatory for most people who have stubborn weight problems, as well as for those who suffer from a spectrum of auto-immune and inflammatory-related maladies.  Dr. Davis explains what is going on in the level of detail I needed, as a chemist, to convince me that this was not pseudo-science (as many diets are, such as, IMO, the blood-type diet, etc).  Getting to the point, I finally turned around years of slow but sure weight gain and have lost 12 lbs in the last 4 months of gluten free/wheat free living.  I sleep better, my acid stomach problems are all but gone, and I feel better than I have in years.  My boss has lost 45 lbs - he introduced me to the ideas and loaned me his book.   

I am not going to review the whole book here... but you will learn that wheat is addictive (very true in my experience... I can now say no to donuts without a second thought), wheat Gliadin's can incite autoimmune reactions  (http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2013/10/gliadin-the-universal-human-poison/), and last but not least, as Luna suggests, that wheat is highly glycemic.  You will learn that selective breeding in order to increase crop yields and gluten content has brought out the worst in wheat.. which may very well map to the increases in Celiac disease over the decades.

One thing I did that really helped me build the case for change was to read the review comments, of which there are almost 2500!, on Amazon for this book;

http://www.amazon.com/Wheat-Belly-Lose-Weight-Health/product-reviews/160...

Although each person's experience is, in itself, anecdotal, a picture will emerge as you read the comments of lives being improved in many different ways;  weight loss, improved thinking/cognition, freedom from longstanding IBS problems, getting off stomach acid reducing meds, eradication of skin conditions, normalization of blood numbers  .. .the list is long.. but if you read enough reviews you will start to see the patterns and the underlying truth of the contentions that Dr. Davis makes in the book.

I will never eat wheat again.  For me, being free of the addictive nature of wheat, and having a new ability to avoid foods that I always knew were bad, like donuts and pastries, is a revelation.  I thought I was lacking in willpower.  As it turns out, I was actually under the influence.... 

All the best Adam 

   

           

Yoxa's picture
Yoxa
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I second Jim H's comments about Wheat Belly

When I saw this topic I was all set to praise "Wheat Belly" but Jim H. beat me to it!

I've lost sixty pounds since a friend recommended the book and it convinced me to cut way back on wheat. I haven't eliminated wheat completely, but many days I have none, and my consumption is probably 90% less than it used to be. Social life is to blame for the remainder!

In a nutshell, reduced wheat consumption = better appetite regulation that's more in line with what the body actually needs.

Beg, borrow or buy a copy of Wheat Belly and start doing what it says.

 

 

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
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Posts: 1758
Use of DRUGS to modify mood

I'm a bit like Jim H and Yoxa in that WheatBelly seems really important.  Partly avoiding wheat disrupts my tendency to stop at the convenience store for a box of Oreo's on the way home from a stressful day of work.  

Nothing like the blissful biochemical effects of chocolate/sugar/butter on my mood centers.  Until I need the next box of Oreo's.....

jgarma's picture
jgarma
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Shape the Path

Adam, yours is an issue most Americans face.

My suggestion is to "shape the path", meaning to find what you're willing to do consistently, begin doing it, and then add incremental degrees of difficulty.  This idea may be applied to both diet and exercise.

Since you sit long hours at a desk -- a real killer recent studies say -- consider getting your phone (or a timer) to chime once an hour.  Soon, like Pavlov's dogs, you'll immediately react to whatever it is you've decided to do when that chime goes off, such as stand up and do 20 squats, or pushups, or burpees, or stretch, or walk 200 yards, etc.  This stuff adds up and can be quiet beneficial.

For a more detailed plan, check out a post I wrote called, "The Baby Boomer's Guide To Trimming Body Fat" right here: http://www.garmaonhealth.com/diet/baby-boomers-guide-to-trimming-body-fat

Good luck!

-Joe

jdye51's picture
jdye51
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Posts: 157
Wheat

My integrative medicine doc recommended the "Wheat Belly" book to me. I am trying to avoid wheat as much as possible but not sure if it's having an effect. Of course, I haven't cut it out completely like Yoxa it's the eating out that's hard - pizza! But on a day to day basis, I avoid it. I'll be glad to report back here on how I'm doing as I need to lose too. With age has come extra weight and it has to come off in the name of resilience.

Good luck everyone!

Joyce

treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
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Posts: 344
My Gout just went away

If you haven't had a date with gout consider yourself blessed.  Anyway, no gluten/wheat - no gout with one winter down. 

jtwalsh's picture
jtwalsh
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Posts: 263
Up to the challenge

Adam:  I am really glad you brought this subject to the table.  Beginning at age 47, by following the Carbohydrate Addicts' Diet of Drs. Richard and Rachael Heller, and by walking (up to five miles per day at peak) I was able to  loose almost seventy pounds and get down to my college day's weight.  That was the healthiest period of my adult life.  I maintained that weight level for about seven years.  In recent years reoccurring health issues have limited my mobility and the weight has climbed back to old levels.

Recently I have been reviewing the different things I am doing to build a more sustainable life and my inner voice has been telling me the biggest change I have to make is in me.   I need to get working back to the health I enjoyed ten years ago.  Weight loss and exercise are at the core of that goal. 

I hope you folk keep coming back with success stories, advice and ideas.  It is much easier to keep to a goal if you feel others are out there working for the same thing.  I took a quick look at jgarma's web site and will be going back to review a number of his suggestions.

For those of you struggling with weight loss it can be done.  Keep a positive attitude and get back up and move forward if you fall.  (that last part was from me to me, but I thought I'd share it with you all.)

Looking forward to support and advice.  jt

gillbilly's picture
gillbilly
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Posts: 423
Establish a Routine

All the above posts are great! Jim's point on wheat is right on. Has anyone else noticed the amount of people that are gluten/wheat intolerant? It seems to be growing by the day, and it won't surprise me if the majority of us will be intolerant in the near future.

Adam, when I hit 40 I noticed my body was beginning to fall apart. I was having horrible back issues and could barely pick up my daughter (a year old at that time). I'm 5'9 and weighed about 175 back then. I'm no expert on this stuff but since I think we're roughly close in age here's what worked for me and some of what I've taken away from my routine:

- 30 minutes a day of exercise. I trade off daily on cardio and core strengthening. I take one day off a week, but I don't beat myself up if I miss a day. 

- cross train. My cardio days are running/walking, biking, or swimming (summer months), but I sometimes use an elliptical machine. Interval training works well if you're not into running (listen to music while you do it, it helps).

- core exercises = pushups, yoga positions, light weight training. I often play the current PP podcast when I'm doing this. Because of my tenuous lower back I stay away from situps. I do planks instead.

- Things to motivate me - I often look for a sprint triathlon (the short distance tri) that is happening in our area and train for it. I rarely ever go to them because they are expensive, but just having the goal gives me something to work toward. Also, find friends you can go biking with or you can ask at the local bike shop, they often have groups that organize a couple times a week. They are a lot of fun and most people our age are in it for the fun.

- if you decide to buy a new bike (mt or street), buy one that is a little better than what you think you need. That way if you really like it you, as you improve physically you will have some room to grow into the bike. If you don't like it, it's easier to sell a better bike.

- I don't know if you have back issues, but I've learned to pay attention to it. If it's sore, I change the type of exercise I'm doing. I also don't pay attention to my speed in any of this. My goal is to feel better.

- Don't skimp on shoes/sneakers. I found this has been the BIGGEST help to my back, hips, and legs. Good arch support is crucial (I've learned my feet are pretty flat...like my headsmiley). You can also find added arch supports at a good athletic store.

 - Breakfast is essential for me - cereal, fruit, OJ, a cup or two of coffee. If I don't, I can actually feel my metabolism drop, of course, that could be all in my flat head. I eat only a salad for lunch (a big one, but veggies only). This allows me to have whatever I want for dinner (but no fast food). I'll have a glass of wine with dinner, and often a small desert.

- Find a time that works for you. Don't know why, but I can't stand exercise in the morning, so I do mine in the late afternoon.

I dropped to 148 lbs in 6 months and have stayed between 147 - 153 for the past seven years. My back still gives me some trouble from time to time, but I know I would be in a lot worse shape if I didn't stick to my routine.

The only bummer? Be prepared to look a little older when you drop the pounds. Your round face will look a little more wrinkly once the fat that pushes them out is goneblush.

Best of Luck!!

 

 

ferralhen's picture
ferralhen
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Posts: 151
i started last week. i walk 3

i started last week. i walk 3 miles 5x week anyway. so have to cut back on the food intake.

cutting out carbs helps but you have to maintain that or the weight comes right back on.

simple math, since so many of you out there like math....

burn more calories than you take in. that's the receipe

i knew a thin woman who once told me her secret....she said most fat people ask what can i have on this diet how much can i have. she said she always thought how little do i need today.

hats off to all

anyone over 40 should have a physical before starting an exercise regime

i have a phys ed degree...we learned that 3x week exercise maintains to lose weight or get in shape you need 4-5x week.

also if you want cardio benefits, the first 20 minuted do nothing...it's what happens afterward so even tho i can't run any more, it takes me 1hr to 1hr 20  minutes for my walk

last tidbit...just do it and don't think about it.

kevinoman0221's picture
kevinoman0221
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Posts: 144
More specific goals

Adam - You say your goal is to get below 190 and stay there. I think, more specifically, what you want is to get below 190 while losing as little muscle mass as possible, or even gaining some, and stay there. The difference is subtle, but important. You can lose "weight" without increasing health - you may actually decrease your overall health if a large portion of that weight is muscle mass.

While low fat diets succeed in reducing "weight", they also maximize the portion of muscle that is lost. They are the worst in this regard. You might expect half the weight you lose on a low fat diet to be muscle loss.

On the other hand, it has been well demonstrated that a ketogenic (very low carb) diet is the best way to lose fat while maintaining muscle mass, and is completely safe, even in duration beyond 6 months. 

I encourage you to do some poking around on the subject. One good place to start is with the info in the side bars here: http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/ and here: http://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/

Also, don't worry about breakfast. You are better off not eating it. Read this: http://articles.elitefts.com/nutrition/logic-does-not-apply-part-2-breakfast/ The idea of "ramping up" your metabolism with frequent meals and a hearty breakfast is completely bogus, and has been proven so.

And don't fall into the "chronic cardio" trap: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-evidence-continues-to-mount-against-chronic-cardio/ Go for quality over quantity. HIIT - high intensity interval training - during short sessions of 15-20 mins 2 or 3 times per week is probably ideal for you. Along with 1 or 2 brief weight lifting sessions. 

It is easy to overdo exercise, and when you do, your cortisol goes up, and guess what cortisol contributes to? Muscle loss. Much of the conventional wisdom of dieting ignores muscle loss, which is a shame, as maintaining muscle mass is actually extremely important for overall health and longevity. 

KathyP's picture
KathyP
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Posts: 84
Weight Watchers

I've been a Weight Watcher since my early 20's and I cannot praise the program enough.  In fact, for 11 years after retiring from my professional career, I was a Weight Watchers leader.  If you want very sensible, practical advice on eating the foods that will help you lose the extra pounds, just turn to Weight Watchers.  The program has gone through many iterations as the science of nutrition has advanced, and the current program is the best I've ever seen.  I'm sorry if this sounds like an advertisement, but I'm a strong advocate for the healthy approach to food, exercise and personal motivation the program advances. 

You don't have to go to meetings if that's not your thing.  There's an excellent online version of the program.  The program is also very inexpensive, making it a great bargain.  Best of all is that it helps you develop lifestyle changes that will keep the extra pounds off. 

I offer this as the best resource I know for supporting sensible weight loss. Best wishes to you in your efforts!

Kathy

dryam2000's picture
dryam2000
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Posts: 279
My $0.02.....

The Paleo diet has worked extremely well for me.  I don't follow the diet in strict fashion, but just by sticking to it most of the time I've seen the pounds drop off without even really trying or ever feeling hungry. 

Paleo can be summed up very easily:  stick to fruits, nuts, vegetables, healthy meats, and avoid all processed food.  Above all else, do not eat anything that has high fructose corn syrup (it's pretty much in everything these days, start reading labels if you don't believe me) OR simple sugar.  Ok, it's not too much more complicated than that.  People love to argue about the all the minutia of why one diet is better than another.  There's simply no arguing about avoiding processed foods, sugar or the equivalent, and eating fruits, vegetables, and healthy meats.

If you like sweets, then feed your sweet tooth with fruits.  There are some vegetables to avoid such regular potatoes (instead eat sweet potatoes).  Corn, rice, wheat products, soy, milk products are also things to be avoided.  The thinking is to eat like humans ate during the first 99% of humankind, and thus, these foods are most natural for the body to process.  The substances above are full of macro nutrients, but are nearly void of micronutrients.  One tip on minimizing the work of consuming lots of fruits & vegetables, you can make great smoothies & soups using a vitamix mixer which is extremely easy to do with little preparation & very little clean up.

I'm a true believer after losing the easiest 15 pounds (from 215, and still going) without much effort.  I allow myself to eat as much as I want, and have about 2-3 cheat meals a week because I have a serious foodie streak in me.

About the sugar thing, I encourage everyone to watch the following video.  The physician giving the speech is one of the most respected obesity experts in the country.  I'm a general internist, and almost every word of this talk makes complete sense.  Well worth the 80 minutes.....

ao's picture
ao
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 4 2009
Posts: 2220
eat less, move more

That's it.  That's the whole formula.  It just takes discipline.

Eat quality and eat diversely.  No processed or refined garbage. 

Move frequently and move occasionally with intensity and/or with full range and/or with full speed and always with proper form, technique, and control.

If you're on the computer, get up every 5-10 minutes and do something.  Here's just one sampling of things you can do for timed bouts ranging from 10 seconds (phosphocreatine system) to 30 seconds to 2 minutes (lactic acid system).  Mix it up.

Squats - parallel

Front lunges - full range

Side lunges - full range

Jump rope - single, double, or even triple jumps

Sprints (in your yard)

Rabbit hops in place

Speed kicking (front, side, back, round, hook, etc.)

Push-ups (any one of dozens of variations from Marine Corp variety to Navy Seal variety)

Pull-ups or chin-ups (same variety)

Dips (I have a parallel bar/chinning apparatus in my back yard)

Chain punching (Wing Chun kung fu)

Combo hand strikes - straight punch, double punch, jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand, backhand, ridgehand, etc.

Grip squeezes

And everything is an ab exercise - I fire abs hard with everything, always initiating from core

Here's a unique neurodevelopmental sequence ab exercise - find an open expanse of floor or lawn - roll over and over from stomach to side to back to side to stomach using no arms and no legs - very functional and very effective

But it also helps to switch from yang exercise and do yin activities like yoga, tai chi, swimming, qi gung, etc.  It balances out autonomic nervous system activity. 

I had the lowest percentage body fat in my PT class (4%) and still have low body fat but higher than that due to being more cold tolerant that way.  Aerobic exercise is overrated.  You can get a better overall effect with interval training using the above or similar activities.  But for fun, my main summertime aerobic exercise are sand walking and running and cold water swimming (1-2 miles) depending on water temperature.  Hiking in deep snow and speed shovelling in winter do the trick then.  Usually, I resort to a wet suit when water temps drop below 58 but this year I did a mile in 56 deg. water (but dang cold with nothing but a bathing suit).  I'm 60, 6'2'', 220 lbs. and still in better shape than anyone I know my age.  It's a mental game even more than a physical one.

I have my own ideas but for a single source of published ideas (and to me, there is no best single published source but I plan on writing one), I like Paul Chek.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Eat-Move-Be-Healthy/dp/1583870067

ao's picture
ao
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 4 2009
Posts: 2220
useful information but ...
dryam2000 wrote:

The Paleo diet has worked extremely well for me.  I don't follow the diet in strict fashion, but just by sticking to it most of the time I've seen the pounds drop off without even really trying or ever feeling hungry. 

Paleo can be summed up very easily:  stick to fruits, nuts, vegetables, healthy meats, and avoid all processed food.  Above all else, do not eat anything that has high fructose corn syrup (it's pretty much in everything these days, start reading labels if you don't believe me) OR simple sugar.  Ok, it's not too much more complicated than that.  People love to argue about the all the minutia of why one diet is better than another.  There's simply no arguing about avoiding processed foods, sugar or the equivalent, and eating fruits, vegetables, and healthy meats.

If you like sweets, then feed your sweet tooth with fruits.  There are some vegetables to avoid such regular potatoes (instead eat sweet potatoes).  Corn, rice, wheat products, soy, milk products are also things to be avoided.  The thinking is to eat like humans ate during the first 99% of humankind, and thus, these foods are most natural for the body to process.  The substances above are full of macro nutrients, but are nearly void of micronutrients.  One tip on minimizing the work of consuming lots of fruits & vegetables, you can make great smoothies & soups using a vitamix mixer which is extremely easy to do with little preparation & very little clean up.

I'm a true believer after losing the easiest 15 pounds (from 215, and still going) without much effort.  I allow myself to eat as much as I want, and have about 2-3 cheat meals a week because I have a serious foodie streak in me.

About the sugar thing, I encourage everyone to watch the following video.  The physician giving the speech is one of the most respected obesity experts in the country.  I'm a general internist, and almost every word of this talk makes complete sense.  Well worth the 80 minutes.....

What's sad is that this seems to be a fairly contemporary presentation to a professional audience and he's talking about the evils of sugar (and its relationship to dietary fat) like it's a new concept.  But folks from Carlton Fredericks to Gary Null and others were talking about these concepts many decades ago.  Unfortunately, because they weren't MDs, medical witch hunters such as Stephen Barrett and Victor Herbert branded them as quacks when instead, they were just ahead of their time.  It's a shame.  It reminds me of the famous Ben Franklin quote:

"you will observe with Concern how long a useful Truth may be known, and exist, before it is generally receiv'd and practis'd on"

Jim H's picture
Jim H
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
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Posts: 2379
AO..

I think you are oversimplifying by just saying, "eat less".  For one thing, actually doing that is much, much easier for many people once they get the wheat gluten out of their diet... it was for me.  Not everybody is G. Gordon Liddy. 

We are not grass eaters, and we are not adapted for eating the seeds of grass (wheat).  Read the book.. don't blow it off.  This idea fits in very well with Paleo, which is another way of minding the glycemic aspects of diet, avoiding the blood sugar/insulin cycles that come from too many carbs.  I think you can't go wrong with Paleo and no wheat.  I actually ordered some Paleo "bread" today;

http://www.julianbakery.com/bread-product/paleo-bread-coconut/?gclid=CJv...

There is another book that talks more about the effects of grains and sugars on cognitive ability; 

http://www.amazon.com/Grain-Brain-Surprising-Sugar--Your-Killers/dp/031623480X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381289213&sr=8-1&keywords=grain+brain     

I really do believe that the single most beneficial dietary change most people can make is the total elimination of wheat.            

dryam2000's picture
dryam2000
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Joined: Sep 6 2009
Posts: 279
AO

AO,

One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to know sugar is a bad thing and it leading to numerous health problems, but the extent of the role played by sugar and high fructose corn syrup is only being born out fairly recently.  Having a concept is one thing, but proving those concepts by very well controlled broad studies is another.  Medicine is replete with people who have some great concepts but well controlled studies later completely refute the great concepts.  Estrogen replacement is on classic example when it made sense that this would dramatically reduce heart disease in women.  Most main stream medicine jumped on the bandwagon and gave hundreds of thousands of women estrogen only to find out later that this caused a dramatic rise in breast cancer and an overall increase in mortality.  Oops!  Anyway, good medicine is all about concepts that are well supported by lots of well controlled studies and hard data.  It really doesn't matter what credentials people have.  If they have the data, they have the data.  Once again, medicine is replete with MD's being laughed out by their peers when they have come up with novel concepts and novel data.  It's the nature of the beast when it comes to medicine or science.  The physician who discovered that stomach ulcers were mainly caused by a bacterial infection was laughed out of the building.  But guess what?, he went out and got the data. Those people you listed could have easily been laughed at if they were M.D./PhD's.  Additionally, those people you listed may have said that sugar was bad, but they did not put all of the pieces of the puzzle together on the why & how it's bad.  Knowledge is power, and I believe people are more apt to heed the message on how bad sugar is if they are able to see how all the pieces of the sugar puzzle fit together.

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dryam2000
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Fructose

Both high fructose corn syrup and simple sugar contain about 50% fructose.  Fructose has now been shown in several good studies that it paradoxically increases appetite the more people eat.  It's pretty much accepted fact at this point.  For this reason alone, fructose should be avoided all together.  It will trick your mind into thinking you haven't eaten enough & cause you to overeat.  Most people are completely oblivious to how much fructose permeates almost every processed food in the grocery stores.

 

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davefairtex
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diets and exercise and...

So many good suggestions here.  My body type likes to gain weight too, and ever since I hit 20 I was perennially 15 pounds overweight (I am 5-9 and was 175-180).  Now I range between 160-165, which is pretty reasonable given my build.  My "fighting weight" would be about 155 - pretty easy to obtain if I run every day for 3 weeks.  But that takes work, and running is boring, so I hover around 163 most of the time.

I've tried lots of diets and different types of exercise, and with enough application most of them do work to take fat off.

As for exercise, the thing I eventually concluded is, do whatever form of exercise that is the most fun for you.  Seriously.  If its a life change, it has to be fun or else you won't keep doing it.  Running is effective, swimming too, but they aren't fun for me.  I do a bit of weight lifting in the park (when its not raining) and an hour of muay thai a few times a week because I think both of those are fun.  One important thing for me: after muay thai (which is very intense cardio), its important to get a protein shake, electrolytes, a couple quarts of water, and - some milk.  Otherwise I come home, eat everything in sight, and then crash.  For some reason, milk helped the post training cravings a lot in a way no other food I've tried worked.  Apparently that's a well-known fighter routine, something I learned it from my trainer.

Another thing that really helped was guided meditation.  It sounds funny, because it has nothing to do with eating or exercise, but getting to the root cause of overeating was quite important, as was a daily clearing-out of emotional crap buildup.  In the old days I could eat like a pig and stuff myself, but these days I get quite uncomfortable if I overeat, and while a part of me still enjoys the fried chicken (and I do get a piece or two every month or so), I can tell that my body really doesn't enjoy it so much.  I now listen to my body; I can tell it likes vegetables a lot, so I try and make it happy.  It likes meat too, but not quite as often as I was eating it before.  Rather than a piece of machinery or just the vehicle that carts my consciousness around, I now try to view my body as my partner so I try to be considerate of what it wants.  How do you know what it wants?  If you listen, it will let you know.  Likewise, I can tell now after doing this for several years when I have emotional crap buildup that needs to be released.  If I don't attend to it, I will likely try and self-medicate through eating or drinking something bad!

I still eat sweets, but not often, and not as sweet as before - and I notice that I usually want them when I haven't cleared away the negative emotions.  And not all sweets are created equal.  A butter cookie with your tea doesn't give you the same physical effect that a coke does, for instance.  Portion control is important too.  If you must have a coke, buy the small bottle, not the big one.

Oh, and there's one other thing, something I picked up from this two-week desert survival class I took: drink a quart of water every morning, before eating.  It really helps a lot.  Turns out at least some percentage of "hunger" signals are really "thirst" signals.

So my diet: meditation, exercise I consider fun, a quart of water in the morning, listening to my body, and I'm good to go.

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I know many of you won’t

I know many of you won’t agree with this post – but I think that sometimes cutting out wheat is not the answer.  I turned 40 this year, my husband is 52 and we have two small boys, and I get through a lot of flour every week.  I think the reason that we don’t have a problem with wheat is because I make everything from scratch.  I used to think that my husband had a problem with wheat, but that was when we bought our bread, pasta etc.  I make brioche for breakfast, sourdoughs for general eating, and I often have tarts for when the kids get home from school.  I fill the tarts with seasonal fruits.  I think one of the things which has helped my husbands weight is portion control.  Since I make everything I tend to decide how much is going to be eaten before it hits the table, so snacking has gone, so too has overeating. 

What I am trying to explain is that by making food MORE important, and giving it the respect that it deserves can help you eat better, lose weight and have a healthy range of everything your body needs. For example, when I am making a fresh pasta dish I used a lot more vegetable in the sauce than I would if I was working with dry pasta from a shop.  

I am fairly obsessive about eating the best possible quality of foods, and knowing absolutely everything which is eaten in this house.  Food is very important, even if the kids just want a biscuit, it will be a homemade biscuit, served with milk or water, and they will have to sit at the table to eat it – controlling your weight is about giving your body time to process what you have eaten before deciding what next to put in your body.

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Biggest obstacle

You have a detailed handle on this "project" with goals, activities, time frame, eating plan, & excellent community support. You said sitting in front of your computer handling the PP.com site is your biggest obstacle. Can you place a treadmill in your office, elevate your computer, and slowly walk while you work? Temporarily delegate some PP.com monitoring tasks to trusted community members? What's your time drains? 24 hours in a day, you sleep 5-8 hours... plot out your typical day. How can you use your time more efficiently? Stop (for awhile) the things that will not help you reach your goals. jgarma & ao had excellent suggestions about a timer & short bursts of exercises to do in your office. Prep your space for exercise: a mat, hand weights, towel, & water. After a short exercise burst, center yourself for a few seconds-close your eyes, take slow breaths & imagine yourself at your desired goal: healthier, happier, & calm.

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ao
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yes, it is an oversimplication

Jim,

Of course it was an oversimplification.  I could write hundreds, maybe thousands of pages on the subject.  Just like Wheat Belly is an oversimplification, typically of the reductionist view so-called medical books that permeate the marketplace.  Very simply, it depends upon your metabolic type (if you're not a carbo type, you probably shouldn't eat wheat), the type of wheat (heirloom, pre-industrial versus highly bred and GMO), sprouted vs. unsprouted, what the wheat has been treated with, etc. 

Jim, I've studied this area up and down and inside out and FWIW, I have personally refrained from unhealthy grain products for 35 years.  Again, on a very simple level, I've noted a directly proportional relationship between the consumption of conventional baked goods (largely wheat but including other types of grains) and poor health so I am largely in agreement with you and have proven it by having exceptional health and vigor for my entire adult life.  Plus, my kids never got the colds, flus, and other illnesses that many, if not most of their friends did.

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ao
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dryam2000 wrote: Both high
dryam2000 wrote:

Both high fructose corn syrup and simple sugar contain about 50% fructose.  Fructose has now been shown in several good studies that it paradoxically increases appetite the more people eat.  It's pretty much accepted fact at this point.  For this reason alone, fructose should be avoided all together.  It will trick your mind into thinking you haven't eaten enough & cause you to overeat.  Most people are completely oblivious to how much fructose permeates almost every processed food in the grocery stores.

dryam2000,

Your other post will require a lengthy reply and I don't have the time now but regarding the above, I will pose you a question.

Why is it that the Gracie family, who are huge fruit eaters (i.e. containing fructose), are extremely lean and extremely healthy.  For example, the patriarch of the family, Helio Gracie, lived to 95 and was teaching and practicing jui-jitsu up until 10 days before his death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracie_family

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9lio_Gracie

The answer to the question explains why your statements above are not completely accurate and need to be qualified.

 

Enjoy!

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Amanda Witman
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A few comments

I've been gluten-free for eight years, as well as mostly dairy-free for 20+.  I still struggle with my weight.  For some people, cutting out wheat or dairy or anything else doesn't correlate with weight or health.  Doesn't mean it isn't the right thing for some people to do, but it isn't a magic answer for everyone. and it certainly isn't a universal weight loss solution.  I do agree that the increased large-scale "domestication" of gluten grains has changed them even in the last century to something less nutritionally useful for many people.

My own experience is that eating sugar causes fat gain in my body more than anything else.  It also causes cravings for more sugar and refined carbs, which my body can more healthily do without, and other undesirable effects such as blood sugar issues and mood swings.  I find that protein and veggies/fruit are my body's ideal mainstays; I supplement with non-gluten whole grains, which helps the budget and doesn't seem to harm us.  I also find that my body needs animal protein, yet I know others who say they are at their healthiest when they are vegetarian.

I want to caution (in general) against assuming that weight loss means improved health.  Muscle mass weighs more than fat.  Weight loss without muscle gain might make a person look thin, but it won't necessarily improve their state of health. We live in a culture where thinness is valued to the point of unhealthiness, yet the two do not always correlate.

That said, the process by which one reassesses one's habits and loses weight -- exercise, healthier eating, etc. -- can lead to better overall health, and I think those things may be better indicators of health than the numbers on a scale. 

There are too many people who eat unhealthily (by eating too little) and exercise unhealthily (by pushing their bodies too hard and//or exercising obsessively) to lose weight because they think weight loss is the ultimate indicator of health. 

Not to imply that Adam or anyone else here is on that track, but it's unfortunately very common in American culture. (I say this as a woman who has struggled since childhood with weight, fitness, and body image, and as the mother of two preteen girls who frequently need debriefing on the cultural messages they're absorbing about their bodies.)

I think it is important to recognize that the underlying goal is improved health (strength, mobility, metabolism, fitness, whatever that means for you).  Weight loss might be a part of that picture for some people and not others.  For me, it doesn't make sense to step on the scale or measure my weight.  How I feel is far more valuable an indicator to me than that number.  I know when I'm healthy, energetic, sleeping well, relaxed, limber, strong, supple, handling stress well - and I know (all too well, lately) when I'm not. 

It takes us back to "trust yourself" -- you know your own body better than anyone else can.  Good luck to everyone with your goals.  Here's to improved health for all of us.

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ao
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a sad history
dryam2000 wrote:

AO,

One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to know sugar is a bad thing and it leading to numerous health problems, but the extent of the role played by sugar and high fructose corn syrup is only being born out fairly recently.  Having a concept is one thing, but proving those concepts by very well controlled broad studies is another.  Medicine is replete with people who have some great concepts but well controlled studies later completely refute the great concepts.  Estrogen replacement is on classic example when it made sense that this would dramatically reduce heart disease in women.  Most main stream medicine jumped on the bandwagon and gave hundreds of thousands of women estrogen only to find out later that this caused a dramatic rise in breast cancer and an overall increase in mortality.  Oops!  Anyway, good medicine is all about concepts that are well supported by lots of well controlled studies and hard data.  It really doesn't matter what credentials people have.  If they have the data, they have the data.  Once again, medicine is replete with MD's being laughed out by their peers when they have come up with novel concepts and novel data.  It's the nature of the beast when it comes to medicine or science.  The physician who discovered that stomach ulcers were mainly caused by a bacterial infection was laughed out of the building.  But guess what?, he went out and got the data. Those people you listed could have easily been laughed at if they were M.D./PhD's.  Additionally, those people you listed may have said that sugar was bad, but they did not put all of the pieces of the puzzle together on the why & how it's bad.  Knowledge is power, and I believe people are more apt to heed the message on how bad sugar is if they are able to see how all the pieces of the sugar puzzle fit together.

One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to know sugar is a bad thing and it leading to numerous health problems,

Actually, many MDs poo-pooed this concept saying that sugar was just another form of calories.

but the extent of the role played by sugar and high fructose corn syrup is only being born out fairly recently.

Actually, if you are really familiar with the literature, the concept of sugar being a problem was not born out fairly recently but many years ago.  High fructose corn syrup was a later development and its proliferation in food was an even later development so that was not addressed specifically but it's just another form of refined sugar (whether cane sugar, beet sugar, or whatever).

Having a concept is one thing, but proving those concepts by very well controlled broad studies is another.

Let me ask you.  I assume you're a follower of the 3Es?  Do you have very well controlled broad studies to substantiate your beliefs regarding them.  No, I didn't think so.  One can act on something before studies (or an overwhelming number of studies are generated).  Empiricism adjusts the path of science behind it.

Medicine is replete with people who have some great concepts but well controlled studies later completely refute the great concepts.

And so called well controlled studies have also been refuted.  Remember how the polyunsaturated fats were recommended for heart disease and all the studies supported that contention.  And now, those studies have been refuted and the flaws revealed.  How about low fat diets?  How about Vioxx?  I could go on and on. 

Estrogen replacement is on classic example when it made sense that this would dramatically reduce heart disease in women. 

It is indeed.  There were more holes in the woman's health initiative than a block of Swiss cheese. 

 Most main stream medicine jumped on the bandwagon and gave hundreds of thousands of women estrogen only to find out later that this caused a dramatic rise in breast cancer and an overall increase in mortality.  Oops! 

Oops, indeed.  A classic mistake of medicine.  Like the vitamin E study in Finland.  Medicine prescribed synthetic analogs, not bio-identical hormones.  They don't work the same.

Anyway, good medicine is all about concepts that are well supported by lots of well controlled studies and hard data.

It's also about common sense and not being paid off by pharmaceutical industry money or lured to the dark side by other forms of grant money. 

It really doesn't matter what credentials people have. 

Well, it does to some degree but it's not the final word.

If they have the data, they have the data.

If the data isn't fudged (as it has been on occasion), if it isn't statistically slanted in a desired way, and if it is complete, not partial.

Once again, medicine is replete with MD's being laughed out by their peers when they have come up with novel concepts and novel data.

Like the doctor who developed the concept of washing hands between patients and was persecuted by his jealous peers who drove him out of the profession and into poverty and insanity.  Very sad, like the sugar saga.

It's the nature of the beast when it comes to medicine or science.  The physician who discovered that stomach ulcers were mainly caused by a bacterial infection was laughed out of the building.  But guess what?, he went out and got the data.

But what they still haven't established the data on fully is what type of lifestyle creates the environment for that type of bacteria to flourish in the first place.  They treat it with anti-biotics rather than getting to the source of the problem.

Those people you listed could have easily been laughed at if they were M.D./PhD's.

They were PhDs and EdDs.  They were attacked by medical professionals who were jealous of their results and their own lack of comparable results.  This process has been repeated over and over again in medicine and science, throughout history.  Pasteur and Tesla are two prominent examples.

Additionally, those people you listed may have said that sugar was bad, but they did not put all of the pieces of the puzzle together on the why & how it's bad.

They put enough pieces together to know it was a problem but the medical profession, by and large, was behind the curve and refused to acknowledge what they were saying.

Knowledge is power, and I believe people are more apt to heed the message on how bad sugar is if they are able to see how all the pieces of the sugar puzzle fit together.

FWIW, they still don't understand all the pieces of the puzzle.

Enjoyed the discussion.  Thanks.

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ferralhen
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boy reading all that makes me

boy reading all that makes me want to eat a whole cake!

 

more simplicity for such a complex topic...

if i don't want to diet and lose weight i won't.

if i do really want to lose weight, i will

and i will go to any lengths to get it done.

once a decision is made that it is something i want , it's a done deal.

asked me in 2 weeks how much wright i have lost.

 

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Amanda...

I really do agree with everything you say.  I was an early acolyte of Dr. Sears, who wrote the "Zone" diet books, which were arguably the first to scientifically, biochemically explain how carbohydrates and sugars, and the resulting insulin response, was to blame for so many ills.  Wheat is of course just another carb in this view of things.  There is no doubt that one can gain weight even in the absence of wheat, and Dr. Davis is very careful to point out in his book, "Wheatbelly" that the idea is not to go replacing every wheat calorie with an equivalent non-wheat starch based product, i.e. an Udi's bun for your hamburger.  Better you eat the burger with no bun.

As with many folks who find their way to PP.com, I have been ahead of the pack in at least some aspects of my thinking.. I for one was decrying the dangers of partially hydrogenated fats 20 years ago... and of course we don't even talk about that today.. that they are dangerous fats is settled science, and they have been taken out of almost all processed foods, including Dunkin Donuts.  But the wheat remains   : )  ......

I believe wheat needs to be viewed in its own special light.  For many folks, myself included, wheat presents an addictive element beyond what you rightly describe as the cycle of cravings associated with blood sugar highs and lows.  There is science behind this;

http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/07/doped/

You’ve been cleverly disguising your opiate of choice as muffins, bagels, breakfast cereals, and sandwiches. As with many of the dark and fascinating hidden issues surrounding modern wheat, this is the effect of the gliadin protein of wheat.

Gliadin is digested via stomach acid and pancreatic enzymes to a collection of polypeptides (small proteins) called exorphins, or exogenously-derived morphine-like compounds. The message to take from the research is quite clear: Wheat-derived exorphins bind to the opiate receptors of the brain (the delta class of opiate receptors, for you neuroscience people). Different wheat exorphins, such as the A5 fraction, differ in their binding potency, but as a whole, the wheat exorphins exert an opiate-like effect.

For unclear reasons, wheat exorphins do not provide relief from pain, nor the “high” of other opiates. They “only” cause addictive behavior and appetite stimulation. People who consume wheat increase calorie consumption by around 440 calories per day, every day.

Just as the tobacco industry doped their cigarettes for years with added nicotine to increase addictive potential, so Big Food has likewise been doping their foods by adding wheat to every conceivable processed food. Wheat is in nearly all breakfast cereals, granola bars, canned tomato soup, powdered instant soups, taco seasoning, and licorice. Show me a processed food product and I’ll show you something that contains wheat.

Just as the sleazy drug dealer selling you your next hit of crack or heroin profits from your continued addiction, so Big Food acts as your opiate dealer in the wheat exorphin world of addiction. And, just as the drug dealer knows you will be back, else you will suffer withdrawal, sweating, hallucinating, finally begging for your next hit, so Big Food knows you will be back within hours as you begin the exorphin withdrawal process—tremulous, cranky, and foggy . . . until you get your next hit of a bite of pretzel or bread.

I actually see a pretty strong dietary consensus forming within this thread... I think the ideas actually hang together quite well given that the topic is weight loss;

1)  Glycemic view of diet;  reduce sugars, grains, starches, and processed foods

      a)  concentrated high fructose corn syrup (not fruit itself) as a special case carbo to be avoided

      b)  modern, high yield wheat as a special case carbo to be avoided

What's left on the other side of this avoidance template is basically a more ketogenic, Paleo-like diet.

  

 

 

   

   

     

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Wendy S. Delmater
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I'm in

This is a hard one, but you have a diet buddy, Adam.

We receive monies toward my husband's family plan $3000 health plan deductible. Right now we put $1500 of that $3K into a health savings plan, which comes from pretax dollars and does not affect his take home pay.  We also get $1500 from a fund for taking blood tests that has measured our greatest risks: cholesterol, weight, smoking, blood sugar. This year they added the BMI. And and my husband and I both need to lower our BMI by at least 2% to continue to get that second $1500.

Of course the money is not the only goal, but it's a helpful motivator for us.

My skinny-as-a rail dress size is a 16, as I am large-boned like you would not believe. And I've been on low carb diets before, but while they brought my measurements down, the weigh barely moved. Exercise is the key for me, but that has gotten very hard since my hip replacement. The only exercise I really enjoy is swimming, and the nearest pool is 12 miles away and costs $35 a month. With me not working, and half my husband's take-home pay going to alimony, that's not an option.

I like the idea of setting a timer an getting up to exercise, but not to break up my working routine like Adam. I need to rest in between any time on my feet. After walking on a congenitally malformed hip for 55 years, the weight distribution of my new my gait seems permanently "off" and causes pain, and yes I have had PT for it. This seems as good as it is going to get. Only continued weight loss will take the pain out of staying on my feet for longer periods of time.

In a SHTF situation, this could be a matter of life and death. So, yeah, I'm motivated. What I had been doing when on my feet for timed movement was chores. Now I will add intentional exercise. I'll let you know how it goes.

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Adam Taggart
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Posts: 2934
Great input!

Great input, everyone - we certainly have tapped into a hotbed of interest with this topic!

Thanks to all for the cited research, experienced advice and support. Much of it already rings true with my own personal experience (avoid refined sugars and flours, limit dairy, keep your activity varied and frequent, include short-burst exercises, find activity you enjoy, get enough sleep, etc). But there are also new gems here for me to add into the mix.

I have not read Wheatbelly yet and plan to pick that up, but just skimming the many detailed testimonial comments on Amazon is enough to convince me to try going a few weeks with NO wheat at all.

Joe: I appreciate your 'trimming fat' guide. Again, much of your advice agrees with my personal experience and I'll be trying to be better about integrating it into my daily practice.

Amanda, Sandpuppy, jt, Wendy - welcome to the program! It's wonderful to already have teammates. Feel free to reach out any time through this group whenever a little support or guidance will help. Sometimes simply sharing your challenges with others who understand what you're dealing with makes them easier to bear all by itself. I'm sure I'll be making posts during late-night writing sessions when the cravings tend to be their worst...

Yesterday saw things off to a good start:

  • exercise: morning core exercises, a short hill-repeat run, a bike-ride downtown and back (hilly)
  • breakfast: a fail (didn't eat until close to 1pm)
  • lunch: salad, egg & tuna
  • snack: raw nut & raisin/date mix
  • dinner: soup & brown-rice sushi

One simple behavior change I've already made this morning is elevating my laptop so that I can stand while working. Feels a little foreign, but hoping it quickly becomes routine.

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Amanda Witman
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I can offer support for gluten-free cooking

If that's helpful to anyone.  If enough people are interested, we could address this in another thread.

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jdye51
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Emotional Factors

My downfall is at night after dinner when I am less active and feeling tired. I want to reward myself for making it through another day. The trick is to only have low cal snacks around. Right now I will sometimes have a couple of small slices of organic cheddar cheese because the fat is more satisfying than munching on a carrot. That way I'm not so inclined to keep on grazing. But - a work in progress.

My biggest challenge is my own resistance. I am becoming more aware of how a part of me keeps sabotaging my efforts in any positive move for myself, including weight loss. Maybe that can be a part of this discussion as well as the diet and exercise elements. How do you overcome your resistance especially after the first flush of positive energy dissipates and the crankiness sets in?

Resilience is a good motivator. Health is a good motivator. Feeling better is one too. What motivates you the most? For those who have lost a lot of weight before and gained it back, what will you do differently to keep it off?

Finally, do not eat Pacific ocean fish!

Joyce

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ferralhen
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motivators, motivation are

motivators, motivation are nice when you have them but you have to keep finding one and keep telling yourself to get up and get going one just gets in a unending battle with oneself...in the ring so to speak..

making a decision to lose weight(as what i am hearing adam say) is the way to avoid having to fight yourself in an argument over every temptation. if the decision to lose weight has been made.then there is no dialog. once you enter the dialog you've lost the battle it takes a decision to override the temption immediately.do you want a treat or do you want to lose weight? if you don't decide that now, you will have tomake the decision each and everytime you think about food..

it's understand that i really don't have a choice about weight loss..i must do it. if i feel crappy doing that then i must find a way to do something when i feel crappy...eatin to comfort is not the answer, it 's the problem.

most of americans have never been forced to figure out what to do when we are hungry. it's a skill we;v not learned...

someone can take it from here

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dryam2000
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Posts: 279
ao wrote:dryam2000
ao wrote:
dryam2000 wrote:

Both high fructose corn syrup and simple sugar contain about 50% fructose.  Fructose has now been shown in several good studies that it paradoxically increases appetite the more people eat.  It's pretty much accepted fact at this point.  For this reason alone, fructose should be avoided all together.  It will trick your mind into thinking you haven't eaten enough & cause you to overeat.  Most people are completely oblivious to how much fructose permeates almost every processed food in the grocery stores.

dryam2000,

Your other post will require a lengthy reply and I don't have the time now but regarding the above, I will pose you a question.

Why is it that the Gracie family, who are huge fruit eaters (i.e. containing fructose), are extremely lean and extremely healthy.  For example, the patriarch of the family, Helio Gracie, lived to 95 and was teaching and practicing jui-jitsu up until 10 days before his death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracie_family

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9lio_Gracie

The answer to the question explains why your statements above are not completely accurate and need to be qualified.

 

Enjoy!

 

Fructose that comes naturally with lots of fiber is not absorbed very well.  Thus, fructose contained in and consumed directly from fruit poses no problem.  Simple table sugar and high fructose corn syrup are completely different animals.  They are completely absorbed.

Glucose is metabolized in every muscle in the body & the liver.  Fructose can only be metabolized in the liver.  The liver does not do a good job at metabolizing fructose and much of that fructose is turned into lipids/fat.  Thus, this leads to high cholesterol profiles in addition to weight gain.  It's established that limiting simple sugar and high fructose corn syrup will greatly improve one's lipid profile.  This also debunks the myth that calories are calories.  The same number of calories of fructose will lead to more weight gain than the same number of calories from glucose.  Btw, fructose is very similar to alcohol as far as it's harmful effects on the liver.  They both can only be metabolized by the liver & can be harmful even at low levels over long periods of time.  The number one reason liver transplants were performed in the past was because hepatitis C, and it was rare for people to have cirrhosis from fatty liver.  Now, fatty liver cirrhosis is the number one reason for liver transplants.  Fatty liver has become an smoldering epidemic in this obese country.

Here is a great HBO documentary on Obesity.  There are 3 or 4 parts, and it is superbly done......

 

 

 

 

AO, I'm not interested in a having a pissing match with anyone.  I'm just trying to offer what I know about this topic.

Lnorris's picture
Lnorris
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 28 2011
Posts: 105
Knowledge is power

For me knowledge is power and has always been a strong motivator for me personally. One of the topics that really drove home the reality of what we put into our bodies was endocrine disrupters from Jillian Michaels book Master Your Metabolism. Our metabolism is made up of different hormones. When hormones are functioning normally our insulin is stable, blood sugar is metabolized efficiently by our muscles and and thryroid functions properly to name a few. 

Endocrine disruptors do exactly what their name implies, they disrupt our endocrine system by doing one of a few things:

Mimick a hormone and fits into a receptor (like a key into a lock)

Block a hormone from accessing its receptor

Alter the amount of hormone produced

increase the rate at which a hormone is produced etc.

This is why the more processed a food is the more detrimental it is to our body. Corn, soy and wheat end up in processed foods in all sorts of combinations - none of them good. Foods that are high in fat and sugar make our brain release it's own natural opiates. No wonder they're so addicting and hard to stay away from. 

Here's a list of books I've read that have shaped what my family eats on a regular basis.

Nourishing Traditions - Sally Fallon

Super Immunity - Joel Furhman

The China Study - T. Colin  Campbell

Jillian Michaels - Master Your Metabolism

There are many others. I just don't have the time to look for more now.

 

 

 

 

ao's picture
ao
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 4 2009
Posts: 2220
dryam2000 wrote: ao
dryam2000 wrote:
ao wrote:
dryam2000 wrote:

Both high fructose corn syrup and simple sugar contain about 50% fructose.  Fructose has now been shown in several good studies that it paradoxically increases appetite the more people eat.  It's pretty much accepted fact at this point.  For this reason alone, fructose should be avoided all together.  It will trick your mind into thinking you haven't eaten enough & cause you to overeat.  Most people are completely oblivious to how much fructose permeates almost every processed food in the grocery stores.

dryam2000,

Your other post will require a lengthy reply and I don't have the time now but regarding the above, I will pose you a question.

Why is it that the Gracie family, who are huge fruit eaters (i.e. containing fructose), are extremely lean and extremely healthy.  For example, the patriarch of the family, Helio Gracie, lived to 95 and was teaching and practicing jui-jitsu up until 10 days before his death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracie_family

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%A9lio_Gracie

The answer to the question explains why your statements above are not completely accurate and need to be qualified.

 

Enjoy!

 

Fructose that comes naturally with lots of fiber is not absorbed very well.  Thus, fructose contained in and consumed directly from fruit poses no problem.  Simple table sugar and high fructose corn syrup are completely different animals.  They are completely absorbed.

Glucose is metabolized in every muscle in the body & the liver.  Fructose can only be metabolized in the liver.  The liver does not do a good job at metabolizing fructose and much of that fructose is turned into lipids/fat.  Thus, this leads to high cholesterol profiles in addition to weight gain.  It's established that limiting simple sugar and high fructose corn syrup will greatly improve one's lipid profile.  This also debunks the myth that calories are calories.  The same number of calories of fructose will lead to more weight gain than the same number of calories from glucose.  Btw, fructose is very similar to alcohol as far as it's harmful effects on the liver.  They both can only be metabolized by the liver & can be harmful even at low levels over long periods of time.  The number one reason liver transplants were performed in the past was because hepatitis C, and it was rare for people to have cirrhosis from fatty liver.  Now, fatty liver cirrhosis is the number one reason for liver transplants.  Fatty liver has become an smoldering epidemic in this obese country.

Here is a great HBO documentary on Obesity.  There are 3 or 4 parts, and it is superbly done......

 

 

 

 

AO, I'm not interested in a having a pissing match with anyone.  I'm just trying to offer what I know about this topic.

I'm not interested in a pissing match either.  I commented that you had useful information in the first post but it's sad that the medical profession has been so late in recognizing it.  I am interested in historical perspective on this particular issue and other nutrition and health issues since understanding the history behind an issue often explains things which might otherwise seem confusing or contradictory or may lead folks astray.  I am also interested in accurate, practical, actionable, and efficacious information.

The whole fructose issue is causing many people to eschew fruits (not fructose in either monosaccaride or disaccharide form, not refined syrups like HFC, not fruit juices like purified apple juice, or other similar unhealthy "foods" that rightfully should be eschewed).  I think there's a potential problem there which is why I brought up this particular issue. 

Regarding my question about the Gracies, was the response above your whole explanation?   

Jim H's picture
Jim H
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 8 2009
Posts: 2379
Fructose

link to comment below:  http://www.trackyourplaque.com/forum/topics.aspx?ID=3364

link to study;  http://www.jci.org/articles/view/37385

 

 

As if increased uric acid weren’t bad enough, a University of California group conducted a detailed study of the effects of fructose vs. glucose. It represents the most thorough and “clean” analysis of this issue yet conducted.

Though the total number of participants was small (total 32), the observations were so striking that I believe it settles the issue once and for all: Fructose should be play as small a role as possible in the human diet.

Briefly, participants (average age 54 years) were given either a diet with 25% of calories from glucose or from fructose. (This was provided as 3 glasses of Kool-Aid sweetened with one or the other sweetener.)

After 10 weeks, the following differences were observed:

  • Intraabdominal fat:  While both groups gained about 4 lbs on average, the glucose group increased intraabdominal fat (measured by abdominal CT scan) by 3.2%, fructose group by 14.0%
  • Small LDL:  Glucose increased small LDL 13.3%; fructose increased small LDL 44.9%
  • Triglycerides:  Contrary to several other observations, fasting triglycerides were no different between the two groups, but repeated assessment of triglyceride values (area under the cover) demonstrated 32% reduction with glucose, 99.2% increase with fructose.
  • Oxidized LDL:  Increased 0.7% with glucose, increased 12.8% with fructose.
  • Postprandial (after-eating) triglyceride-rich remnant lipoproteins:  Increased 15.2% with glucose, increased 78.6% with fructose. 

The differences between glucose vs. fructose are striking.

Although 25% of calories from sugars seems excessive, it is actually not that different from the real-life diet habits of millions of Americans.

The investigators propose that fructose exerts such exaggerated effects because it increases VLDL more so than glucose. They also propose that, while hepatic metabolism of glucose is shut off when energy stores are high, fructose is not subject to this inhibitory effect and proceeds unrestrained, increasing liver VLDL production.

It has become clear that, in the Track Your Plaque program, not only should we avoid foods that contain high-fructose corn syrup and corn syrup, we should also avoid fructose as much as reasonably possible. 

I would not stop eating fruit myself.. but I would definitely think twice about using fruit juice as a concentrated sweetener. 

Tycer's picture
Tycer
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 26 2009
Posts: 601
Bulletproof Adam

I have now met four people locally that have been following Dave Asprey's upgraded paleo eating protocol for more than two years. Of those four people, one has lost over 100 pounds, one has kicked Crohn's and gained 25 pounds, one has lost MS symptoms that came on four years ago and one has lost twenty pounds and is no longer depressed. I've been following it for four months. I've lost 20+ pounds and gained much mental clarity. 5'11", was 208, now 185. I follow the http://www.bulletproofexec.com/rapid-fat-loss-protocol/ as best I can and I've read all the transcripts of Dave's podcasts 1-26 and listened to #s42-62. I've tried his coffee and his mct oil and they are OK, but I still roast my own coffee and am still trying different mct oils. When I run out of One True Whey, I'll try his whey and I'll probably try the C8 Brain Octane in the near future. I've compared the way I feel on the Calton's Nutreince to New Chapter Vitamins and don't notice a difference, but the idea of micronutrient competition/absorption has merit from what I've followed up on. For me, the eating protocols Dave recommends have been fairly easy ( all the veggies are hard to intake) and the results have been fantastic. The pounds belie the inches. I look completely different and my focus is great. I recommend the Inner Balance HRV iPhone App, great way to spend $99. Nancy says my triggers are noticeably less drawn out in just two weeks and I am saving my pennies ( I'm even ending my subscription to PP to fund this) to add the BrainCore therapy to the HRV training of the app. Hacking my body and brain simultaneously has been a riot. I'm now on week three of gluten free and will have my antigens checked it two, then I will eat a big pizza and have them checked again in a week. I'm not sure whether it's the wheat, beer or what, but whichever it is, it added to the vitality I feel. I hope I can quantify it with more tests. I've spent a few pennies on different tests in the past few months and the local integrative Dr. has been able to dine well on my dime. But man, I feel great.

 

Great luck on your journey! Thrive Adam.

Arthur Robey's picture
Arthur Robey
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 4 2010
Posts: 3936
Magic Mushrooms.

We might not know how to handle the sugars, but our little friends the Mycelia do.

Ferment all the sugars in your vegies and what-not. The fungi are only interested in the sugars and all the (More accurate: Most other) micronutrients are still in the food.

OK, so sauerkraut is one fermented foodstuff that never experiences any heat at all. but there are a host of fun things that can be made with fermentation. (Apple cider?)

Sawyer beans are indigestible, fungi turn it into miso.  I am sure you could liberate the indigestible complex carbohydrates of sorghum too. 

The world of fermentation awaits your discovery. 

 

westcoastjan's picture
westcoastjan
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 4 2012
Posts: 561
Good morning Adam...

Have you eaten your breakfast today? Just checking to make sure cheeky

Jan

Adam Taggart's picture
Adam Taggart
Status: Peak Prosperity Co-founder (Online)
Joined: May 26 2009
Posts: 2934
Exactly the support I need, Jan

Thanks to your helpful nudge, Jan, I'm eating it right now (2 hard-boiled eggs and a few turkey slices).

This is exactly the type of considerate check-in that I think makes community support so effective in diet success. Thank you for it!

For me at least, the knowledge that others are invested in my success makes me more mindful in staying disciplined. There's the carrot of wanting to come through for the team because it feels "we're all in this together", and the stick of not wanting to let folks down. I'm not certain this works well for every personality type, but it sure seems to for mine.

Yesterday (Day 2) went well:

  • exercise: morning core routine
  • breakfast: fail (didn't eat until lunch)
  • lunch: raw fruit smoothie, 1/2 tuna sandwich on gluten-free bread (which falls apart faster than you can eat the sandwich!)
  • snack: raw nut/raisin/date mix
  • dinner: homemade tomato soup (picked the tomatoes from our garden about an hour beforehand)
jtwalsh's picture
jtwalsh
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 263
Everyone is Different

Watching the proponents of various weight loss/healthier living plans present and defend their ideas has brought to mind a thought I want to share. I particularly want to encourage people who are for the first time seriously attempting to lose weight and/or to improve their health through better eating. There are as many body types and mental states as there are plans and theories about how all this works.  The goal is to find something that works for you physically and mentally and then pursue it.

As an example: both my wife and I were overweight going into our fifties.  I wanted to shed pounds from a more or less vanity position (I looked like Santa Claus in family pictures).  My wife became pre-diabetic.  This is a disease that has ravaged her family and the test results immediately got her attention.   Our internist advised her to lower her weight.  She continues to eat as she always had but in deliberately smaller portions.  Over a period of several months she lost nearly thirty pounds and has kept them off for over two years now.

I have never been able to make a dent in my weight by attempting to eat smaller portions.  I went on a low carb diet, where the amount you eat is less important than what you eat.  I not only began to lose weight but after a week I noticed that swelling in my hands, feet and ankles went away and my arthritis pain lessened markedly.  Seven or eight months into this program we went on a vacation where I totally went off the diet for fourteen days. However, I lost weight as we were in a city where we walked everywhere.  As a result I added a walking component to my life and lost weight even faster than just with the diet.  I eventually lost almost seventy pounds and maintained that loss for over seven years.  Mentally it was much easier for me to stay away from certain foods and to exercise than it was to constantly watch portions.

We are friends with a couple who participate together in Weight Watchers as they approach their fifties.  They have maintained healthy weights for six or seven years by staying with that program.

The point:  There are many different body types, metabolisms and mental states.  These three things combine in each of us in an almost unique way for every individual.  Find what works for you and don’t be discouraged if you have to try several different regimes to find the one that works.  Don’t get discouraged by the competing ideas and theories.

To Adam:  I am forty-eight hours with only two ounces of carbs (Rice in a sushi role). Two nights with no double bourbon night cap. To Jan:  I did skip breakfast today.  I promise to try again tomorrow. Thanks for being there.

Amanda Witman's picture
Amanda Witman
Status: Peak Prosperity Team (Offline)
Joined: Mar 17 2008
Posts: 409
Nice to see the check-ins, Adam/jt/Jan!

I haven't checked in because I've had little to report...I've been quite sick these past few days and not able to eat or exercise regularly.  But instead of fretting about it (and coming down hard on myself, as I once would have), I'm reminding myself that I can be confident that I'll get back on track as soon as I am able.  Being a bit flexible when needed has been really important (historically) in my sticking with any plan for lifestyle changes.

That said, I'm planning to do a little stretching and try a walk around the block just as soon as I get some more work done. 

tictac1's picture
tictac1
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 25 2009
Posts: 175
wow

Adam, you got bombed with a lot of advice, most of it good.  Major kudos on taking the bull by the horns on your fitness, BTW.

I noticed there's a bit of advice in this thread that is simply not backed by good science, i.e. not eating breakfast and "Paleo" dieting.  I'm not saying that the Paleo diet isn't effective (it is), but the foundational arguments are unsound.

Without trying to step on anyone's toes, whenever you read material in books or in articles you may find on the net, be sure to check references.  If there are none, or they are limited, it's actually quite easy to research what is out there academically on the subject.  Simply go to google, enter your search phrase followed by "ncbi".  This will take you to the vast library of the National Center for Biotechnology Information.  Here you will be able to read the abstracts of studies done around the world on virtually every subject you can think of related to biotech.  I have found it incredibly useful for my research into exercise, nutrition and farming.

After spending some time on NCBI and PubMed, I've found that many articles on nutrition and exercise that appear on the net are seriously flawed; sometimes they are dead wrong, sometimes they simply do not reflect the fact that there is no concensus on the issue they are writing about, and leave out data that does not support their conclusions.

Unless you are used to reading highly technical papers, you may find some of the language a bit daunting at first.  I certainly did!  But I quickly expanded my vocabulary to accommodate.

If I can throw my own personal advice in here, it would be find what works for YOU, both in the diet and exercise arena, and then make it habit.  Especially where exercise is concerned, there is a wide variation in response from individual to individual, and humans are highly adaptable where diet is concerned.  Even the best programs fail when the participant no longer complies.

Looking forward to seeing your progress!

dryam2000's picture
dryam2000
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 6 2009
Posts: 279
Agreed on lack of evidence on Paleo

Tictac1,

I completely agree with you regarding the lack of large controlled studies in regards to Paleo in a general sense.  I'm a hospitalist and pretty much everything I do in medicine is highly evidence-based.  Unfortunately, studying Paleo is very  difficult because it needs to be over a long period of time, with a lot of participants, and it's a very difficult study to control for as it's a difficult diet for many people stick to (not inherently, but difficult to stick to because of all the advertising & marketing in the food industry).  I doubt there will be any good studies on Paleo for at least another 15-20 years.  This is why I prefaced my comments about Paleo as summing it up as a balanced non-processed food diet consisting of fruits, vegetables, healthy meats, and nuts.  It's hard to argue against such a diet/lifestyle.  I simply recommend people give it try for 2-3 weeks and see how it works and see how it makes them FEEL.  I also recommend turning off the TV set to avoid the massive advertising by the food & restaurant industry.

tictac1's picture
tictac1
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 25 2009
Posts: 175
Agreed

I actually eat a diet very similar to paleo, though I do consume Einkorn and barley products.  I actually like the diet in general, though I think they should rename it, and drop the reasoning behind it.  Paleolithic peoples ate what was in season and available, not what was optimum.  The diets they consumed were as varied as the cultures they maintained and environments they lived in  However, paleo eating obviously works for people seeking to drop excess fat.

I have a couple concerns, maybe others have similar ones- is the higher protein load a concern for kidney function over the long-run?  It seems like longevity studies usually seem to favor a lower meat consumption.  Also, we placed my son on a diet that was grain-free (he is gluten sensitive), and he lost a lot of weight.  This was not so good for a kid that is very active, and still growing.  He got rail-thin, and we ended up reintroducing some grains, which he was able to tolerate and reversed the weight loss.  I suppose that's an endorsement for gainers.

For me, the no-grain, low starch thing didn't pan out.  I have a high metabolism, and I went catabolic pretty quickly on that diet.  Much of what I do involves maintaining a decent strength output, so I started consuming more "filler", i.e. pasta and potatoes.  I feel better with a moderate intake of these items.

I think the only possible argument to be made against an unprocessed, balanced diet is "I've been eating junk for years, and I'm fine."  That of course would be anecdotal, and not scientifically relevant...:)

For anyone looking at cutting grains, you should know that wheat has changed dramatically, especially in the last 100 years.  Modern varieties are bred for higher yield, shorter stalks, less lodging (falling over).  These are all good things for the farmer, but these grains have much higher gluten content, and the glutens they contain are more inflammatory than the glutens present in older varieties (like Einkorn).

kevinoman0221's picture
kevinoman0221
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 25 2008
Posts: 144
breakfast, paleo, sources

Just quickly wanted to point out the article I posted about skipping breakfast cites over 80 sources.

Some background on the author: He was a physicist who noticed basically what Tictac says, that a lot of the claims in the diet and exercise marketing are BS, and that often the ones that cite any sources at all are doing so incorrectly (the info in the studies not supporting the claims made by the marketing that is citing them).

That's why he spent years going over the studies himself to sort out what was BS or not, and he makes it a point to cite the proper research in his own writings. That's a core point of his article about breakfast - that all the common wisdom and parroted marketing about breakfast being the most important meal and boosting your metabolism is based on BS studies that don't even support those conclusions.

Re: Paleo - There are a lot of misconceptions about what Paleo is. 

People see videos of guys eating raw meat or hear that Paleo is "living like cavemen" and dismiss it on those grounds, but those things really have virtually nothing to do with it. That's like dismissing resiliency because the TV airs clips about extreme survivalists living in remote bunkers waiting for a zombie apocalypse. Sadly, it taints the whole prepping concept for people who have never been given any other exposure to it. To dismiss Paleo in a similar way is not being fair. 

The fundamental concept of Paleo is using an evolutionary biology approach to exploring the question of how best to eat, sleep, exercise, play, and generally live, using modern knowledge about nutrition and human physiology, along with the investigative tools of modern science to test hypothesis.

I'd suggest Robb Wolf and Mark Sisson as being the most definitive sources of what mainstream Paleo really is. And in Robb's case, I recommend the podcast, not the book. I know a lot of people who have had tremendous success doing Paleo, myself included.

Adam: If there's one useful nugget in my post, it is "N=1". This is shorthand for "your own experience is what matters, don't let the conflicting dietary advice paralyze you". Robb Wolf has said multiple times that he would love it if people experimented with different diets for 6 weeks each - have them try veganism, low fat, low carb, Paleo, etc etc, take thorough notes on how you look, feel and perform, get blood work all along the way, treat yourself like a science experiment and determine what really works best for you - wear each diet like a sweater in your wardrobe and decide which one fits. He says this because he's confident Paleo will win out, as it has countless times for people who've given it a shot, but you don't have to approach it that way. Go in with an open mind. Maybe you will be different. N=1.

kevinoman0221's picture
kevinoman0221
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 25 2008
Posts: 144
I have a couple concerns,

I have a couple concerns, maybe others have similar ones- is the higher protein load a concern for kidney function over the long-run?

Also, we placed my son on a diet that was grain-free (he is gluten sensitive), and he lost a lot of weight. This was not so good for a kid that is very active, and still growing. He got rail-thin, and we ended up reintroducing some grains. . .the no-grain, low starch thing didn't pan out.

A couple notes here. These statements, I think, would not have been issues for you if you were following a Robb Wolf or Mark Sisson style Paleo. In my mind, it is a misconception that you don't eat starch on Paleo. Robb and Mark both stress the importance of more carbs for people like athletes, the highly active, and growing children. While they would not advocate feeding grains, I'm sure you could have put plenty of weight on your son and fueled your activity using sweet potatoes, or even white potatoes or white rice (yes, some other versions of Paleo avoid white potatoes and white rice, but I think there is now a "paleo consensus" that these things are OK). What kid could turn down a plate of sweet potatoes fried in butter and drizzled with maple syrup? 

Another extremely common misconception is that Paleo has to be high in meat and/or protein. As Robb Wolf often says, Paleo is macronutrient-agnostic. If you are worried about protein, eat less of it and fill in the rest with healthy fat and/or carbs. If you are worried about fat, vice versa. 

That said, the protein and kidneys thing has been recirculating since the early days of Atkins, and has been debunked again and again and again. 

tictac1's picture
tictac1
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 25 2009
Posts: 175
I hope I didn't come across

I hope I didn't come across as dismissing Paleo.  It empirically works to reduce body fat.  However, the premise that paleolithic man ate one diet is simply untrue.  Here's a TED talk to get you started, if you're interested in researching this further-

I read Rob Wolff's book, and one of the first things I thought was "If man was unable after 10,000 years to adapt to a grain-based diet, when how were Northern Europeans able to adapt to consuming cow's milk in a fraction of that time?"  Having some indigenous genetics myself, I have a rough time with dairy, unlike my Irish and German relatives.  That's just one of the holes.  Also, there is no long term evidence as to the effects of this diet on cancer rates, mortality, etc.  Then there's the whole sustainability issue, which is probably minor to someone with a weight issue, but should still be addressed.

I think Wolff comes to some right conclusions from a wrong premise.  That's actually not unusual, look at traditional Chinese medicine.

While I have not read the physicist you cite, I do not believe that eating a big breakfast "boosts metabolism".  However, there is evidence that, with equal caloric intake, breakfast trumps dinner as to when you consume the most calories-

"The BF group showed greater weight loss and waist circumference reduction. Although fasting glucose, insulin, and ghrelin were reduced in both groups, fasting glucose, insulin, and HOMA-IR decreased significantly to a greater extent in the BF group. Mean triglyceride levels decreased by 33.6% in the BF group, but increased by 14.6% in the D group. Oral glucose tolerance test led to a greater decrease of glucose and insulin in the BF group. In response to meal challenges, the overall daily glucose, insulin, ghrelin, and mean hunger scores were significantly lower, whereas mean satiety scores were significantly higher in the BF group."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23512957

Different study, similar conclusions-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22178258

This study shows improvement in a number of indicators in hyperandrogenic women, which may have significance for diabetics/pre-diabetics-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23688334

I realize these are all newer studies.

A few more pro-breakfast studies.  With a few more hours, I'll bet I could get more references than the anti-breakfast physicist...:) 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23340006

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23608698

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23775814

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23520556

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23761483

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22456660

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15699226

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21562233

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18346309

Jokes aside, I totally agree, every individual is just that, and must rely to some degree on trial and error.

One thing is clear, overeating WILL make you fat, and one cannot always rely on how one feels to determine if they are consuming too many calories.

 

 

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