Local Coverage of Peak Prosperity in the Press-Democrat

Adam Taggart
By Adam Taggart on Sun, Sep 8, 2013 - 3:17pm

Last week, a journalist from the Press-Democrat came out to my house to interview me about Peak Prosperity and why I had chosen to re-locate to Sonoma County.

The article came out in today's Sunday paper as the lead story in the Business section.

(For those unaware, the Press-Democrat is the largest-circulation newspaper between San Francisco and the Oregon border. Until just last year, it was part of The New York Times family of newspapers.)

While I would have liked to have seen more coverage of the resiliency-building practices PP.com promotes (which is what the reporter and I spent most of our time talking about) and fewer warnings of economic "chaos" (an extremist word we hardly use), the article does an OK job presenting our main thesis.

I appreciated how the reporter conscientiously followed up with me for clarification several times as he wrote the story. He was taking pains not to take the easy route of portraying us as bunker-loving doomsayers (which, of course, we are not -- but it's a known sterotype that a lot of reporters in the past have lazily painted us with). It's nice to see more mainstream press picking up our message and trying to represent it more authentically.

Sebastopol futurist sees hard times ahead (Press-Democrat)

A year ago, Adam Taggart chose Sebastopol as a “high resiliency” town from which to warn the world that its economy is poised for a long, hard slog.

Taggart and author Chris Martenson are the co-founders of PeakProsperity, a contrarian website known for asserting that humanity's best financial days lie in the rearview mirror.

PeakProsperity draws more than 250,000 unique visitors a month, Taggart said. Along with bracing predictions — “Blast Shields Up! Prepare for Incoming!” warned a recent headline — the site calls readers to consider a road less traveled, namely finding ways to boost their quality of life with less money in their pocketbooks.

According to Martenson's book, “The Crash Course,” the worst-case scenario within the next two decades is “jarring chaos” caused when unsustainable debt and the end of cheap oil bring financial crises. The best case is a steady decline of global living standards.

In keeping with their convictions, both men left behind careers in corporate America — Taggart as a vice president at Yahoo and Martenson as a vice president at SAIC, a Fortune 500 company. They each moved their families to small towns with ample farmland and residents who look out for each other.

Outside Sebastopol last week, Taggart sat on his back deck with an unobstructed view of Mount St. Helena and the hills around Santa Rosa. The small ranchette near new vineyards and old apple orchards gives him the chance to raise a half-dozen chickens, a small garden and a few bee hives.

Click here to read the full article

52 Comments

Denny Johnson's picture
Denny Johnson
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shoot the messenger

I don't know what to make of it, but find the preponderance of snarky comments at the Press-Democrat site very interesting

Adam Taggart's picture
Adam Taggart
Status: Peak Prosperity Co-founder (Offline)
Joined: May 26 2009
Posts: 3079
Itchy trigger fingers

Sonoma County has a high concentration of colorful residents  -- very outspoken on both the conservative and liberal sides of the spectrum.

Many of them have seen "Silicon Valley types" move up into the county over the past decade. A lot of them have bought/built large gated 2nd or 3rd homes which they emerge from infrequently.  Home prices have been driven up (over 25% in the past year) along with the overall cost of living here. Many long-term residents have become understandably resentful of what they perceive as a trend that is diminishing community bonds and forcing them out of the towns they grew up in.

So, I think some readers who don't know me personally are willing to pass quick judgment, painting me as one of these elitist Internet retirees (which I'm very much not). I'm trusting that over time, a greater percentage of the population will become aware of the work I'm doing to accelerate community cohesion and resilience. From the folks in the area who have contacted me personally today about the article, I'm pretty happy with the scope of appreciation and awareness I'm seeing in the Sebastopol community after just one year.

Secondly, the Great Recession hit this county hard and many families are still just hanging on. Reading about future possible economic "chaos" (the reporter's words, not ours) understandably touches raw nerves that likely make some willing to shoot the messenger first and ask questions later.

As I mentioned above, I was disappointed that the scope of the resiliency-buildling resources we offer through PeakProsperity.com wasn't really covered in this article (the positive "creating a world worth inheriting" part of what we do). It's what I spent the most time talking about with the reporter. I guess it wasn't deemed as "newsworthy" as the risk of a renewed economic downturn  :(

Had a brighter light been shined on that part of the story, I think it would have been much less likely for the readers who don't know us to snap to a "fear-monger" judgment.

That said, the article has over 200 Facebook "likes", so I believe we are influencing those open to our message. Those not ready -- or unwilling -- to hear it (which I think many of the commenters may fall into this camp) will need a few more shoes to drop before their ears open.

robie robinson's picture
robie robinson
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"Sebastopol?"

and all my life i thought they(sebastopols) were goosey, goosey,duck.

HughK's picture
HughK
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Congrats, Adam!

Congratuations on the nice article, Adam.  I did two kayak trips with friends down the Russian River in 1999, when I worked as a summer intern at SRI International.  Some close family friends used to have a place in that area, but I'm not sure if they still do.  Beautiful scenery, but the poison oak is a killer!

Hugh

jdye51's picture
jdye51
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Adam

I'm sorry but after reading the comments on the article, I couldn't help myself. Not that you and Chris need any defense but it got my back up to hear such opinionated people talking about something they know nothing about. I just had to add my own comment on the article about my experience on PP. God, it's discouraging to hear those type of comments. I hear you about the wealthy newcomers in Sonoma County and how hard the county was hit in the recession. But there is no excuse for knee-jerk responses like that. People are so quick to rush to judgment without knowing anything about what they are commenting on. One of the downsides to the internet, in my opinion.

The good news is there was an article mentioning you and Chris and PP. I hope more open-minded people will follow  up and check out the site.

Joyce

RoseHip's picture
RoseHip
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Your too much of a good thing

Anyone who thinks we are gonna get reporting that covers the breadth of resilinency that is covered and discussed on this site should consider what that implies.

Rose

thatchmo's picture
thatchmo
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just like anyplace

I lived in Sonoma County from '75 to '84.  Still have a place on the River (Russian).  Worked in Sebastopol at the Ford agency in '77.  Graduated from Sonoma State College (now University).  Know the place pretty well and it is just like anyplace else.  It has it's nitwits and morons.  Easier to spot them with the internet.  It also has, just like anyplace else, some Really Good People.  Perhaps the article will guide some of them here, to their benefit and ours.  Despite yogi's commentary.  Thanks as usual to Adam, Chris, and everyone here.   Aloha, Steve.

Phil Williams's picture
Phil Williams
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Total Denial

Wow, the comments on the article really shocked me. It is really sad how misinformed and quick to judgment people are. I think anyone who goes against the materialistic growth at all costs "economy is in recovery" must be discredited by the public, because deep down they know somethings not right, but they are not emotionally ready to accept the data. It's like with any marketing, logic, fact, and reason is not what works, appealing to emotion does. I like that Chris & Adam still stick with logic and reason. Keep up the great work.

Phil

 

ferralhen's picture
ferralhen
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i too moved into a small

i too moved into a small rural community but i did so quietly or so i thought. they all know who i am, where i live and i've not heard all the rumors about me, but have been told they exist.it's been 7 years now, and i continue to meet more and more of them and once they meet me, i'm prettymuch accepted.

i find taking over some raspberries, or tomatos as a gift is the time honor way to meet strangers.

one of my wary thoughts  for civil unrest is mob rule. unfortunately i see where the internet is lessening peoples constraints on themselves as they have less control over what they mouth off(including myself). i see people losing the ability to control themselves more and more even in person. it doesn't seem much of leap for a group of people reved up to turn into a lynch mob mentality..i see  the human nature of a lynch mob is being practiced quite a bit in the spoken tongue on the internet. developing bad habits and more thoughtlessness.

____________

i walk 3 miles down a nearby dirt road 5x a week and i wave to each car/truck/bike that passes. those from behind too. the young people are starting to initiate the wave of hello, the elderly wave, even the crabby in a rush people wave.if one wants to be cool, you just do a subtle wave of one finger from the steering wheel. people are starting to smile now as they wave.  sometimes a farmer's wife will rush out and say hold on til i get my shoes on and i'll join you.

what i see happening is that i am becoming familiar and a part of dancer rd most afternoons. the people i've met that live on this road, i wave to their house as i walk by.

it's such a small gesture, that is building strong bonds of civility

 

 

livsez's picture
livsez
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What the comment!

I agree with you Phil.  Considering some of the previous articles written about PP, I thought this one was pretty well balanced.  But the comments were frustrating to read.  Espececially the one from Bob Essian, aka Yogi, which I found to be completely misrespresentative of Adam, Chris and the entire PP community.  

treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
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In regards to

Bob's take on the tone of the PP community - not Adam or Chris, I think he's totally correct - this is a like minded site and if you pet the kitty the wrong way you'll hear about it quick, over and over from the usual suspects - and if you can't support your theory, views, and opinions with studies, authors, and obscure references - you'll never be taken seriously.   Moreover, you'll be labeled, taken out of context, and sort of....shunned/blocked.  I'm not commenting on Bob's post on that site - its his - but as for the rest of it, I agree.  I'm just saying PP isn't as tolerant of idea variation as some might believe.  I consider PP a source (a very good one), one of many, to learn from - but I view the "this is how we see it here....." thing as a loss of potential.  Just my .02

jdye51's picture
jdye51
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Bob

Bob, I just read your post on the news thread after it was referred to by posters on this thread. I am disappointed that you chose to use the occasion of the article on Chris and Adam to vent your displeasure with them. Not only were you incorrect in characterizing Chris as being "Wall Street" and a "banker" but your comment struck me as a passive-aggressive move to retaliate against them for perceived wrongs against you. You also managed to get in an indirect dig at me and others here who expressed opinions that differed from your own on who might have used chemical weapons in Syria and who question our government's truthfullness. That just felt yucky.

My experience of this site is that differing views are what makes it so interesting. Chris and Adam have a clearly stated intention for the site and will naturally intervene when they feel things are veering too far from that.  But I don't think the issue is that you have a different opinion on anything and that they are trying to censor you.  My perception is that it is the way you express your opinion that gets you into trouble. I invite you to do some introspection on your responsibility for your part of this and what it is that Chris and Adam are trying to tell you about how you communicate. Use it as an opportunity to learn something about yourself rather than perceiving it as a personal attack. Is there anything to what they are reflecting back to you that could be true?

You might also ask yourself why you still come to this site when you feel so abused by them. What are you getting out of appearing to be the victim here?

I feel your comment on the news thread was out of line. I hope you will choose to be more direct in what you say on this site in the future. I would be happy to talk further with you about this privately if you wish.

Joyce

 

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
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Stick to the facts please....
treemagnet wrote:

Bob's take on the tone of the PP community - not Adam or Chris, I think he's totally correct - this is a like minded site and if you pet the kitty the wrong way you'll hear about it quick, over and over from the usual suspects - and if you can't support your theory, views, and opinions with studies, authors, and obscure references - you'll never be taken seriously.   Moreover, you'll be labeled, taken out of context, and sort of....shunned/blocked.  I'm not commenting on Bob's post on that site - its his - but as for the rest of it, I agree.  I'm just saying PP isn't as tolerant of idea variation as some might believe.  I consider PP a source (a very good one), one of many, to learn from - but I view the "this is how we see it here....." thing as a loss of potential.  Just my .02

Well, one thing that I do take exception to are unbacked claims, especially those of the sweeping sort.

Bob has had his difficulties here before, and has again, mainly because of insisting on the "right" to cast aspersions, put words into people's mouths (er, posts), and then refuse to back up those claims with specific examples in specific posts to illustrate where and how he came to those opinions, if not charges.

It starts bad and spirals worse.

So, yes, we kind of do insist on people being able to stick to the facts and back up their claims because the alternative is to have exactly the sort of comment area that exists below the article in the Press-Democrat; a very high level of noise to signal.

Some people actually like that exact environment, but they are lucky because they have 99.99% of the Internet space to satisfy this craving.

Where I disagree with you, treemagnet, is that I do not see our guding priciples and rules around posting as a loss of potential, but a gain of something valuable and almost unique on the internet civil discussions.

To back up this claim, I offer the Definitive Global Climate Change Thread. where all possible views on a potentially explosive topic are being routinely discussed in a civil and educational manner.  If you can find another example on the web where both sides of this topic are being discussed in a civil fashion, I'd  be most interested in seeing it.

In closing, it's not like we are making up random rules as we go; we are very open about them and put a lot of thought into our guidelines and rules, which people either voluntarily agree to, or not, as a part of joining up.

As a reminder, here are the guiding principles (from here):

GUIDING PRINCIPLES

The goal of PeakProsperity.com is to draw attention to the important messages in the Crash Course and also to create a safe and welcoming place for people to discuss its implications in an intelligent and enlightened way.

Together we will continue to hold this site to a higher standard than is usually found elsewhere on the Internet.  We will be civil with each other, respectful, thoughtful, and considerate. 

Anything that causes people to feel unwelcome or unsafe will be discouraged or removed, as will things that serve to detract from our high standard of intelligent discourse.  Our mission is to engage, not to repel.

Posts must be data-rich, fact-based, and constructive, especially if they are critical.  We ask that all critical commentary be accompanied by thoughtful suggestions for improvement—or not offered at all. 

 

treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
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Fair enough.

But where you disagree with me is that my opinion differs from yours, and you're calling me out on it.  I get to have my opinion - and that thread you cite (the parts I read) just illustrate the ease of agitation around PP - would you not agree?  Thats a detraction for me, and I said just that, nothing more.  I'd post more opposing views but simply do not have the time to 'stand and fight' and it adds marginal value to a given discussion - depending upon the topic.  How can I "stick to the facts" when just stating an opinion about something?

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
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treemagnet wrote:But where
treemagnet wrote:

But where you disagree with me is that my opinion differs from yours, and you're calling me out on it.  I get to have my opinion - and that thread you cite (the parts I read) just illustrate the ease of agitation around PP - would you not agree?  Thats a detraction for me, and I said just that, nothing more.  I'd post more opposing views but simply do not have the time to 'stand and fight' and it adds marginal value to a given discussion - depending upon the topic.  How can I "stick to the facts" when just stating an opinion about something?

Well, saying that some people and opinions get one labeled, taken out of context, and shunned is certainly a position that could be factually backed up, if one had the inclination.  Those are strong words and have emotional content. 

Because there's emotional content to your use of words, I suspect we are dealing with a belief system not an opinion.  

Opinions are neutral; beliefs are loaded.  I might have an opinion that a certain pitcher was the best in baseball, but if you approach me with statistics that prove someone was better, then merely holding an opinion means I will change that opinion.  

But if I hold the belief that a certain pitcher was the best, then I will get riled up, defensive, and otherwise begin to enter an increasing load of emotional verbiage into the argument. There will be no quantity of facts that you could provide that would change my belief; they would only make me angrier or more defensive.

What I've learned in life is that it's easy to form beliefs that are not so easily matched by the facts. Because what's happening is that our personal belief systems are extraordinarily good at seeking 'data' to validate that position at the exclusion of data that fails to conform to that belief even to the point of not even being able to see the alternative data.

At any rate, if you find the lack of conflict in the threads to be a detraction, please know that making this a safe and sane place to have a conversation around some very difficult topics was, and will remain, a core tenet of our approach.

treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
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There the same

for all intents and purposes.  I hear what you're saying and mostly agree but they're synonyms for each other, two shades of gray apart.  Attitudes, stance, perspective, position, theory, conclusuion, notion and more....more shades of gray - I cited the ease of agitation - not the lack of it. 

I'm here because I believe that intelligence is what I know, and wisdom is what I've learned from others - all of them, all of you.  I think I'll learn more from others experiences rather than singularly re-inventing the wheel every day.  Maybe I'm choosing the wrong words, but you get what I'm saying.

 

 

 

jdye51's picture
jdye51
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Posts: 157
To All

Our egos are quick to take offense at perceived attacks even when none is intended. When someone else expresses an opinion, try to see it as reflecting who they are and that it has nothing to do with you. It is all about them.

Webster's defines opinion as "1. a belief not based on certainty but what seems true or probable 2. an evaluation, estimation etc. 3. formal estimate judgment". Belief is defined as: "1. conviction that certain things are true 2. religious faith 3. trust or confidence 4. creed or doctrine 5. an opinion; expectation; judgment". So Treemagnet is right, they are synonyms according to Webster.

Semantics aside, perhaps it's the amount of ego investment in an opinion/belief that determines the intensity of the reponse. When we have a strongly held view and someone else challenges it, we are likely to defend it because our ego identifies our opinion with our identity. If we are less invested, we don't care as much and may react more calmly. But it is the ego that reacts because it is the ego that we use to navigate the world.

My suggestion to us all (myself included) is to try to catch ourselves and notice when our ego rears it's ugly head. When it does, it prevents real communication from taking place. I'm so invested in my view that I can't even hear yours. We end up like two radios on transmit blaring at each other instead of taking turns transmitting and receiving. We show respect for each other when we take the time to consider the other person's point of view, really hear it, and then respond with our own thoughts in a non -threatening way. Knowing ourselves and how we tend to react helps us understand that there are differences in people's way of being in the world. Some, like Chris, rely more on their intellect, while others react more from their feelings.

If our intention is to share information and have a respectful exchange of views, we all need to keep in mind that an opinion is just that. We all have our own versions of the "truth". Let's try to make this a space where we communicate with one another in a non-blaming way and be less defensive.

Joyce

 

 

suziegruber's picture
suziegruber
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Posts: 215
Guidelines for Community Building

Ironically enough, while going through some of my material from graduate school, I came across a document entitled "Guidelines for Community Building."  Here it is:

Speak when moved to speak.

Speak in the first person (use I statements).

Listen & be respectful of thers.

Avoid trying to fix, heal or convert others.

Commit to "hang in there."

Practice inclusivity.  Avoid exclusivity.

Monitor "air time."

Express dislikes in the group.

I love this list and it seems to me that what differs here at PP is that Chris and Adam insist on respectful behavior.  I value that highly because it makes it possible for us to really explore difficult topics.  I believe we have to have clear boundaries in order to have safety.

John Lemieux's picture
John Lemieux
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Yea that Ego Guy (to a lesser extent Gal) is Everywhere!

I think you nailed it there Joyce,

I also get the feeling that it is pride or Ego that is behind someones inability to alter their perspective and to consider alternate points of view.

Here is something I came across. I think it is from Bodhi Paul Cherfurka,

-The Ego takes it's identity from the structure of the World around us.

-Changes in the World threaten the Ego's sense of identity, giving rise to fear.

-Because all of reality is change, egoic attachment to the current state of reality leads to intense suffering.

By understaning that our essentail nature is one of Being, we are able to move beyond this illusory sense of identity based on the state of the World.

That change automatically alleviates the suffering that springs from the Ego's fear of annnihilation.

I am not a religious type person but I do wonder if this is what that long haired dude meant when he said:

"The meek shall inherit the Earth." J.

 

Nervous Nelly's picture
Nervous Nelly
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On the ball Joyce. Couldn't say it better myself.

My .02.

The stronger the ego attachment, the more defensive, reactive and violent the person's behavior is. The ego spends enormous amounts of energy to protect itself. Life of hard knocks will generally help chip away at our deluded sense of grandeur. 

NN

 

Arthur Robey's picture
Arthur Robey
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Getting rid of the ego.

DMT wil get rid of the ego (And most everything else too)

If you look at it closely you will see the usual suspect, an Indole. Oxidised Adrenaline will do the trick as well.

I have never had to resort to that sort of thing.

I was born this way.

Rector's picture
Rector
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Posts: 501
Of course we can always just block someone

My personal method for dealing with this problem is blocking the posts of PP members who don't contribute meaniful things to the conversation, are long winded, mildly mad, etc.  Not responding at all is effective at isolating nonsense.  If no one even acknowledges a post, it is more akin to when my 3 year old chimes in out of turn and out of context while the adults are speaking.  Just igore it.  The opposite of love is indifference.

Rector

treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
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I guess I'd rather deal with it head on.

The arrogance of denying anothers presence is just too much for me.  A childish mute button for the meek, timid, and afraid....confident in what they know reaching out to others who feel the same way about the same things.  Good luck with that.  To deny you can learn anything more from me is hilarious, as if would be for me to do the same.

Let's see how many thumbs up we can get for CM to ban me....you may get your wish.   But then, whose next?

jdye51's picture
jdye51
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Treemagnet

Not sure what happened Treemagnet for you to feel unwelcome and that your opinions aren't being heard. So Rector chooses to ignore some people, that is his choice. You seem to be taking it personally. Is there something I'm missing here? Maybe you and Rector have some history? I'm interested in why you feel this way.

Joyce

 

 

 

treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
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No issues here.

Just responded, nothing more to share - change of topic, check this out.

http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=57636

Couldn't stop reading it, good stuff - love well written pieces.

ferralhen's picture
ferralhen
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Posts: 151
people...!. good lord! have

people...!. good lord! have mercy.

..could everyone go back
read the article
skip the commentary from article. forget bob.

and comment on the article?
or better yet, do some prep.in your home tonight.and comment on that.or talk about the 3 e's

i just recently came to this site, is this what you do? desend like bees on those you don't like.? treebeard you are ok in my book, and i learn from you. you have merit and make contribution.know that from within yourself.

want some reference to what i am referring to? consider i just quoted this whole thread in the blue box. so reread this thread., note the order of post# so you can see the actual post sequence, and how it was all changed; for what reason i'm not sure. control comes to mind tho.

you are your own facts.(linger her to ponder this concept)

take the time to look at them and your "egos"
or just own up and say this got stupid...admit...move on.

that simple and then don't rinse repeat.

ok anyone up for a discussion? go for it.
im waiting for some intelligent thought.

Time2help's picture
Time2help
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Days of our Lives
ferralhen wrote:

people...!. good lord! have mercy.

..could everyone go back
read the article
skip the commentary from article. and comment on the article?

I'm with Ferralhen - this thread reads like a soap opera. Just say'in.

ferralhen's picture
ferralhen
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treemagnet, i'm sorry for say

treemagnet, i'm sorry for say treebeard(pld age ranting slip)but needed to be corrected so i did....i respect you. and want to say that publicly. keep talkin, i'll listen and learn.those of us who want to learn ....will. those who want to sword fight ...will do that. it's all how one uses their time.

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
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Some Points

I read the article, and stepped out of my norm and took a glance at the comments. 
Generally speaking, the comments section is the sewage plant for any given venue. It's the accretion of all the opinions and beliefs that are not in step with the topic, and/or, a great location for the type of people who usually scribble their wisdom on bathroom walls. 

The comments Bob made are obviously from a point of wounded pride. He has a lot to say and says it well. Just so happens that there is no room for other opinions - they quickly become "attacks" and anyone who agrees with PeakProsperity is a beneficiary. 

To the character of some of the Peak Prosperity alumni:

I've known Wendy since ~~2009 or so and can appreciate her contributions all the more because she started as a 'regular' member. She shared her experiences, insights and preps, and was 'tapped' by the PeakProsperity management for her talents. While she may have some perks included with her contributions, I doubt they're substantial, and further, I doubt she's *ask* for them - most of us who contribute here do it freely, and of our own will because we, like Adam and Chris, believe in the values of community. If Chris and Adam profit off this effort, we have contributed to that knowingly.
...And I doubt Bob (or anyone) would unwisely call Wendy a "feel-good charity case" to her face...

Adam.
Having worked with Adam on my own articles, I can say I have the benefit of knowing him substantially, and not sociologically. I have no idea how much money he makes, has made, or how he made it. He is a generous, considerate and honest guy, and anyone who'd label him without a better knowledge of the deep appreciations he seems to have for nature, resilience and community would be selling themselves short. If he is wealthy, he is not pretentious, condescending or ungrateful in any way I've ever seen. 

The people here are of good Character.

 

gillbilly's picture
gillbilly
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Posts: 423
What about Bob?

I can't help but think of the movie "What About Bob?" Bob, if you're reading this I'm sure you are laughing.

I finally got a chance to catch up on the turmoil. 

First, Adam, congrats on the article. There were a lot of nice moments in it and the message I thought, for the most part, came through.

Bob's comment below is definitely coming from emotions of pain. I'm sure he is probably banished from this site again. What's so sad is that if you go back and read the majority of Bob's posts throughout the years, he was (and I'm sure still is) one of Chris and Adam's biggest fan.  He has a BIG personality and sometimes can't control it because it is so big, but that is what I appreciate about him. He is a colorful guy when he writes, and color is much needed in a world that seems to try hard to homogenize everything in the name of facts and rules. After he was banished the first time, I have to say I found it quite humorous when he found his way back on the site threads under the name Yogi. It took me a couple of weeks to figure out it was him. 

 I'm not condoning his personal attacks and his conduct on the threads were sometimes definitely out of line as Chris points out, so I take no issue with whatever has transpired with his status here. My only point is that I'll miss his colorful posts...for better or worse. 

I've really grown to appreciate all the personalities on this site! 

 

AKGrannyWGrit's picture
AKGrannyWGrit
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 6 2011
Posts: 467
Well Said Gillbilly

I completely agree with you.

Ak GrannyWGrit

ferralhen's picture
ferralhen
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 14 2009
Posts: 151
i grew up in a small town of

i grew up in a small town of 2000 people, a community of the true sense
we had all kinds of people. there was an unspoken tolerance maybe because
deep down, we all knew it took all of us to make it fly.

agree gillbilly, bob was the first poster to say something nice to me.

i hope treemagnet didn't leave either

westcoastjan's picture
westcoastjan
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 4 2012
Posts: 572
me three

It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round. Each of us has our strong points and weak points. I learn things even from the people whose writing/commenting styles I do not necessarily care for. I think our big challenge as a collaborative group is to continually try to move past the styles in order to get to the substance. That is what really matters. Not always easy to be sure as we ARE emotional beings, unlike the robots who are replacing most of us in the working world. At the end of the day, I'll take the dealing with the emotional stuff over the robotic, monotone stuff anytime.

Jan

twostepsbackward's picture
twostepsbackward
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 12 2013
Posts: 2
I have begun acquainting myself to the site

[Moderator's note: Deleted new post by banned user.]

John Lemieux's picture
John Lemieux
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2012
Posts: 228
I know that Guy

Hey there twostepsbackward,

I've seen that guy around. Take it from me, despite the charisma and the chicks he's an freekin looser. 

But like a Phoenix, PP Bob will surey rise again.

HughK's picture
HughK
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 6 2012
Posts: 761
and me four... open societies

Thanks gillbilly, Ferralhen, Jan, and all.  I agree that diversity and tolerance make for the most open societies, which is where different perspectives and ideas can mix and achieve synergy, even if some of the emotional results are something we have to deal with.  This is also the best environment for testing beliefs and narratives and improving upon them for the benefit of all.

Cheers,

Hugh

treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 13 2011
Posts: 344
The responses

to posts can be more inflammatory than the posts themselves in many cases.  I personally think the large demographic of like minded people create, without intent, an avalanche of condemnation.  Then they're those select few who just like to not.let.up. - this means you....myself included if the topic is right (unions, demographics, public programs primarily). 

I also believe that demographic block is largely populated with boomers, and their generational tendencies.  I think that 'groupthink' is comforting as we all wish to belong, and being centured is the tool of choice for a majority.  I also believe that I need to read any post I plan on responding to at least twice with a small break in between - I've responded to some that upon reflection and just doing what I really should have done, re-read the thing, change my view after 'putting it out there'.   I actually wrote a long response to this thread - for me, I find writing to be soothing, calming.  Then I deleted it like water down a drain.  Anyway,  I think the generational points of view are dominant and at the least compelling... and wonder what you think.  And yes, I realize there are many views within any given demographic - but I like to generalize even though some of you just hate that.  I can't draw conclusions based on a few grains of sand, the beach gives better picture of whats going on, to me.

You know by now I'm a T4T guy, any thoughts about how it, especially the third and now fourth turning, and the dynamics of everything play into how well be play together nicely? 

http://www.lifecourse.com/about/method/insight-overview.html

 

twostepsbackward's picture
twostepsbackward
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 12 2013
Posts: 2
I read all your threads and the responses treemagnet...

[Moderator's note: Deleted post for violation of community guidelines.]

ferralhen's picture
ferralhen
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 14 2009
Posts: 151
hi bob, welcome back

hi bob, welcome back

ferralhen's picture
ferralhen
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 14 2009
Posts: 151
welcome back tree magnet, ya

welcome back tree magnet,
ya know some of us are real.

ok now back to sharing our thoughts

i can't take any one response like it's from god, yours or others well you know what i am saying.

let's just keep it about the topic
if you can do that. i can stay in support
if others can too, i can stay in support.

people here are cool, we all just sometimes write stupid stuff

ok

lets all get back to real time heart felt comments that help us all deal with the crap out there

ferral hen

cluck cluck

treebeard's picture
treebeard
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 18 2010
Posts: 603
Somethings are well received others not

This is a great thread for emotional resilience, we are all here doing the hard work that needs to be done, hats off to everyone who has participated.  I have always been a believer that our problems are human and not technical.  The technical and material are merely the stage upon which this important human drama unfolds.  As a culture, I think that we have become way too isolated. Mixing it up with others and hanging in there, are important skills.  This is difficult stuff.  I am always working developing a thick skin and a warm heart, sometimes more successfully that others. We are all learning from one another all the time, I know that I am. Even from those who's opinions I find myself in strong disagreement with.

Many of us (pardon me the presumption of taking the liberty of speaking on behalf of others here) have been attracted to this site because it addresses intense feelings and concerns about where the world is headed that are not addressed by or in the main stream media, family and friends.  That general context can make passions run high and I must say that I feel that the PP team have done a great job of moderating the site in such a way as to allow a lot of freedom of expression without letting things getting out off control. The PP team have invested a lot of time and energy to create this site, they have put real skin in the game to make this come off.  We as posters can come and go as we please, we don't really have anything at stake here. I try to be mindful and respectful of that whenever I post here.

The internet is a tough venue to communicate in.  All the normal clues that you get when conversing with others in person are missing.  In some ways that is a great thing, all the normal prejudices are stipped away, your not really sure who your are talking to.  But on the other side, it makes it difficult to make accommodations. Ones tone would be very different if you were speaking to kids in an elementary school rather than with friends at party.  This is particularly difficult for me, my wife laughs at me often, claiming that I must have aspergers, I often miss the boat on social clues.  Most of the time I have know idea how a post will be taken, I am not really a people person. Despite all that I think most of the conversations here are respectful and the PP team have done a great job in setting a respectful tone, I know that I don't have the skills to do the same.

Discussion have come up regarding guesses about the demographics here. I haven't got a clue and in a sense am glad that I don't.  It keeps me from becoming too judgemental.  I had no idea that Yogi was Bob until I just read this thread, though I had fairly extensive interactions with Bob here (it now seems obvious in hind site).  I was posting on the thread when Bob got tangled up with someone else here and got bounced off, it was pretty intense and out of control, no disrespect or judgement intended on either party, but I do think the steps taken here were appropriate.

In these difficult times in our isolated and frighted culture we are all casting about trying to reconnect with our tribe.  The need to belong can be intense and that adds another difficulty to our communication. But I'm sure that we'll sort all this out and we'll be laughing about it all when we make together to the other side of this mess.

Nervous Nelly's picture
Nervous Nelly
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 23 2011
Posts: 209
Bob has risen again

blush For better or worst. How many lives do we get on PP ?   9?

This is like a running gag, love it.

Welcome back Bob,Bob, and Bob.

NN

 

 

gillbilly's picture
gillbilly
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2012
Posts: 423
I agree Treebeard

As much as I appreciate Bob's personality, both beauty and warts, it's important that he, and we all, remember that those who run and oversee this site rely on the income to keep it going and to help support themselves and their families. And although I can find humor in his reappearances (twostepsbackwards...that is kind of funny), I would not like it if he significantly hurt the reputation of the site or caused the site to lose members, which could possibly hurt the families of those who rely on it for income. I agree, I hope we can all have a good laugh at this in hindsight, and that includes Bob, but it depends on his willingness to respect the guidelines he agreed to when he joined the site.

Bob, if you're reading this it might be time to call it a day. In some ways I wish you could have your own corner on this site..."Bob's definitive thread" with a disclaimer... "Bob's views don't necessarily reflect those of PP." That would be colorful thread. smiley But it's not the time...especially after what has transpired.

Bob, Be Good, and Go Tigers.

westcoastjan's picture
westcoastjan
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 4 2012
Posts: 572
I kind of thought this article was appropriate on this thread

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-09-13/some-lifes-signposts

Jan

treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 13 2011
Posts: 344
I liked that,

Thanks for that....good stuff for all, for me.

 

 

 

 

ferralhen's picture
ferralhen
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 14 2009
Posts: 151
bob won't change any minds by

bob won't change any minds by what he writes....and won't change any minds by saying a million times  or louder or more bob like...won't change any minds by coming back countless times under a different name whatever.won't change thinges by writing on other sites....we change things by presenting solutions not bitches/complaints.

 yes it was funny to a point....now it's just stupid.(dumb is not having the iq, stupid is having the iq and not using it)

chris won't change any minds by what he wrote or eliminated(keep reading)

readers won't change any minds by just reading

posters like myself or others,,    won't change any minds by posting once or many time   so

could we all stop trying to do the impossible,trying to get everyone to say ok, i like that) and just have a conversation....

this thread is important because it shows human nature, human folly and human yearnings.the point is not to change another mind that will say ok i'm now like you the point is  to figure out how to be warm, to eat to drink...to...........

. the point is to have one's own mind sound enought to survive and be civilized enough, to trust to say something.. it's also to be civilized to listen. it's also to be civilized to think things through  and to decide for one's  direction........and civilized to let others do that for themselves..and civilized to let others rant out of fear and to be ok with that.and civilized not to impose their ideas on others.saying them  is ok.

 

it's a tough combo.

bob can't pull this site down. and a reprimand won't change bob.

encouragement and laughter won't change bob.or this site.

it's not about bob or this site  that is so red and blue, this or that, we or them.

it's about we as a human race are in several predicaments.

and this as a front runner seems to be testing can we come together ?

only we will be able to answer that

meanwhile, the boat is floating toward niagra falls.

 

bob, chris,this site are not the problem...

deal with the real problems

if you don't see

surely ask

b

.

 

troof's picture
troof
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 14 2013
Posts: 39
Hurt People Hurt People

This thread reminds me of this saying.

TAMWO37101's picture
TAMWO37101
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 17 2012
Posts: 44
Thanks for the coherant,

Thanks for the coherant, SOBER, insightful description there ferralhen....hmmm.  If Bob wrote a book about the 3E's and started a sight where like minded people could come to be thoughful, contributive and positive about our predicaments and how we all may contribute to positive outcomes...maybe I would kiss Bobs ass.  But....he didnt.  So... this summer I learned how to harvest local fruit and nuts, process and produce canned preserves, jellies, butters.  I bought bikes for everyone in the family.  I paid off more debt.  I saved.  I invested in pm's. I recieved FOID card in Illinois (very hard to do! took six months!) Learned how to harvest rainwater. Learned how to filter water. My pantry is deeper.  I study energy whenever I can because that is where future stength will come from...I study economics, finance...which straw will break the camels back?  I research which type of programs will my kids benefit from...sports, dance, chearleading...or gardening, harvesting seeds, camping, animal husbandry.   Either way,  I couldnt make a move until I read the Crash Course, it wasnt until then that someone said (Chris) that it was possible to live within your means, to get in touch with primary wealth,  that an energy descent world was not the end of the world. That it was possible to be happy and prosperous with LESS.  Get in touch with and make use of our primary resources.  Just start SOMEWHERE.  Did you all forget the book?  The one that tied everything together but said its OKAY, we can still have happiness and prosperity in our lives? I know that everyone here was touched/moved/inspired by his book or you would not be here.  What Bob (Yogi) did by commenting the way that he did on a rare (unfortunately) article that highlights what is so absolutley passionate to all of us is...unforgiveable...wrong.  I dont care how colorful he is.. our message is so important  that such aweful comments by Bob about PP on such a rare opportunity for us all is heartbreaking...to me anyway.  Hopefully the main theme that Adam was trying to express is what got through to readers and that there are a few more people out there who are AWARE of the 3E's. 

  So by sincere curiousity...How did YOU find the Crash Course and what did it mean to you and how did you get here...

Sincerely,

Just an ass kisser who pets the kitty just right

davefairtex's picture
davefairtex
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 3 2008
Posts: 5417
petting the kitty

For me, I learned about petting the kitty.  I am not sure how I managed to live all these years without encountering this expression, but like most expressions that survive it has an astonishing amount of distilled truth in it.  Especially for those who have cats.

So my takeaway is an awesome new expression.

There's always a tension between allowing free expression and letting the place turn into The Rest Of The Internet where the commentary rapidly sinks to a common sociopathic low.  The guys here do their best.  That's why I'm here, and not there.

There is most definitely a strong element of "don't challenge my bias, dammit" most everywhere you go.  That's just human nature.  And definitely I've been clawed once or twice by an improperly petted kitty.  And now the Backfire effect has illuminated this aspect of human nature for me: challenge the bias, and you end up reinforcing it!

So going forward, the question I must ask myself is, why do I post challenging material?  Is it about ego and being right, or is it about persuasion?  Or maybe is it about starting a debate so I can explore the issue?  Perhaps its to defend someone else.  Maybe its just about putting down my thoughts into words and seeing how they sound.  Sometimes its just about sharing an experience or a worldview.    What's my goal?  I must first be clear about myself if I am to successfully communicate with my audience.

Other people have different goals; sociopaths/trolls post to deliberately cause discord and amuse themselves in the process.  Some just want to vent long-held anger or resentment.

But if my goal is to inform and/or actually communicate successfully with my audience without triggering the backfire effect, then I should probably put some consideration into how I pet the kitty, if I am to expect to achieve any sort of success.  Simply saying anything I please without regard to how my audience will receive the information should be a warning sign to me that the my goal isn't to successfully communicate, that I'm not even trying to understand my audience, or I don't realize that my effort will be absolutely counterproductive!  Or maybe all three at the same time!

So what's my goal here, in this post?  Sharing my own experience, with the hope it might illuminate, as one who has been clawed once or twice by an outraged kitty.  And as an expression of thanks for a great new phrase!

ferralhen's picture
ferralhen
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 14 2009
Posts: 151
i chuckle everytime i hear

i chuckle everytime i hear the kitty phrase. i've added it to my arsenal.

i always try to remember there is a little kitty in each  human being.!

thanks dave good point.

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