Hiding PMs

Doug
By Doug on Wed, Feb 13, 2013 - 10:50am

If there isn't already one here, I would like to see a thread on ways to hide PMs, particularly against metal detectors.

Doug

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21 Comments

robie robinson's picture
robie robinson
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Posts: 1148
buy

credit and pamp suisse bars with serial numbers (kept at local bank safety deposit)

buy large gun safe

build concrete bunker around the safe (it'll double as a safe room)

have a safe door set into the concrete bunker

rent a back hoe and see if you can break into the safe room. if you can break-in hire a new contractor

RJE's picture
RJE
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robbie,

I have been on the phone most of the day to implement every suggestion you made here, and after tallying up all the contractors to do this work I find I have very little Gold left as I used it to finance my bunker building! surprise

Levity has its place and that is all I am attempting to do here.

I do agree, if you have the time and means by all means protect yourself, financially and physically.

Hey, the new Secretary of State has said he will support "the strong dollar policy"! We have a strong dollar policy? Really!? Kids, "they say the darnedest things". Art Linkletter said this a million times back in the day.

Regards

BOB

Irksome's picture
Irksome
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Great post about hiding stuff

This was posted back in November to the Personal and Home Defense group, but that post appears to have gone away.  But the link to the original article works:  http://www.survivalblog.com/2012/11/constructing-and-finding-hiding-places-by-eli-in-the-southwest.html

I found this article to be an excellent discussion of hiding and finding.  I may or may not have taken some of this advice to heart.  ;)

jmcsd's picture
jmcsd
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treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
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My greatest

concern is govt confiscation.  To date, whats the best option?  What are you doing?

Irksome's picture
Irksome
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Government confiscation

If they do attempt another confiscation, such as the 1933 Executive Order requiring turning in your gold and made it illegal to own gold (and silver, by the way), you have a choice.  You can turn it in and get whatever crap value they are forcing you to accept (only to see it revalued at double that price immediately after), or you can sit on it and take your chances.

If, in 1933, you chose to take your chances, you would have been forced to hold it until 1971 at least, or attempt to deal it on the black market.  Let's just assume you sat on it.  It was 'worth' $20.68 per ounce.  Immediately it went to $35 per ounce, where it stayed for many years (by government decree).  However, when the last link to the gold standard was broken in 1971, the price of gold was $40.62 (38 years, 100% gain).  By 1979, it was worth $306 (46 years, 1500% increase), and it has never been worth less than that since.

To me, any amount of gold that you are holding for long term wealth preservation that you can afford to live without for the true long term, the answer is clear.  It becomes an illiquid asset, one that may be dangerous to be caught with, but some day it will likely trade freely again.  And you may find options to convert it or move it to a friendlier jurisdiction during the dark days.

In no case can I see them going door-to-door to private owners.  The yield would not be worth it.  I certainly seem them going after the large, visible targets, like ETFs, banks, hedge funds, etc.  That's where the easy pickings are.  I also can see them going after the IRAs holding physical, also easy pickings.

This is all my opinion, your mileage may vary, you are responsible for your own choices, yadda yadda yadda.  :)

TN42's picture
TN42
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Actually gold hit a low of

Actually gold hit a low of $257.20/oz in 1999

http://cnnfn.cnn.com/1999/07/06/worldbiz/uk_gold/

Due to inflation 1999 dollars were much less worth than 1979 dollars.

Irksome's picture
Irksome
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Ack!

Crap, missed that.  Good correction, TN42.

Regardless, 1500% increase in 46 years more than beat the destruction of the currency across that time.

In the current situation, where I don't think we'll be looking at the current USD surviving, but rather being reset or replaced, holding the gold (ie, preserving some value outside the fiat systems) has a CHANCE of allowing later re-entry into some currency with a good (if not great) preservation of value.

jcat3022's picture
jcat3022
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The more I read and the more

The more I read and the more critical thinking I do, the more I believe they do the opposite of 1933 and monetize gold this go around.  In my opinion eventually the currency wars will sharply escalate & lead to trade wars.  The solution will be some sort of global gold standard with a peg of anywhere from $7k USD to pick a number.  Whether it solves any problems is anyone's guess?

In regards to hiding it, there are always creative ways for self storage.  I certainly don't trust my metals in other people's hands (banks, storage facilities, etc.).  Based off the publics knowledge of the value of gold today, most knuckleheads breaking into a home would go after the low hanging fruit like jewelry, TV's, etc.

treemagnet's picture
treemagnet
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Irksome

Physical IRA holdings - any ideas - as far as what to do that would safeguard from confiscation?

Irksome's picture
Irksome
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Physical IRA metals

Well, I had some phys in an IRA, inherited from my dad.  I looked into options, and they weren't good.  The best I found was some advice that you could set up a corporation that could take possession, with various restrictions, but it sounded dodgy.  I chose to extract the metal and close the IRA, which cost a ton of fiat in taxes.  I'm not convinced that it is possible to create your own custodian, but you could pursue that if you really wanted to keep the physical in the tax-advantaged IRA world.

Failing that, there are a variety of options for IRA custodians.  I had nothing against the one my dad used, and they treated me well, but anything registered with the government seemed at risk to me.

Too bad about the boating accident, where I lost all of that gold.  :(

jcat3022's picture
jcat3022
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Self directed IRA -

Self directed IRA - http://www.irafinancialgroup.com/

storage here- http://www.delawaredepository.com/

l've used both and am 100% satisfied.  Bought my metals thru APMEX and took physical delivery.  Storage is .005% of the spot price of the metals.  So 40k worth of metals would cost you about $200 per year.

robie robinson's picture
robie robinson
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Bob,

Va is a right to work state and labor costs are reasonable.(insert oneof those smiley faces)  robie

 

ps. we can feed ya

Doug's picture
Doug
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Thanks guys

Whoa, good response.

I already read some of the material offered.  I had not heard before of PVC having a corrosive effect on metals, particularly silver.  I like the survivalblog.com discussion.  A lot of good ideas.  I tend not to want to store more than a token/decoy amount in the house.  Determined thieves can turn a house upside down and know everywhere to look.

I have a couple PM IRAs that I continue to think about taking distributions, but they are allocated and secure.  I think the biggest danger there is the gov't confiscating, but at this point I don't think that too likely.

Thanks again for the ideas.

Doug

AndyG's picture
AndyG
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Hiding Precious Metals

I guess depends on who are you hiding it from? My list includes:

1. The kids

2. The government

3. Thieves

4. The dog [she will chew anything!]

and I'm sure we can more to the list. Here in the UK we have metal detectors regularly finding stashes of gold and silver in the ground from times past. usually 400AD with the fall of the Roman empire occurring and the land falling into chaos. These PM's are buried in pots in the ground - I guess for recovery later on, but the owners never came back...

I think it also depends how much gold you have. After all, $10,000 of gold could be hidden anywhere as its only a few Oz these days. Silver is more problematic as you get more for your cash.

For me, with my small but growing stash is hidden in the wall behind a plug which looks so real. 'Silence if golden' in more ways than one, and ensuring no one knows where it is would be the best security I think. What if I die? Who will know its there to pass on to my kids? For this I've left a note in my files which will gone through by my executor - which should mean it isn't next found when the house is demolished or never.

Here in the UK I don't think many people are buying Gold at all. Only those from other countries who understand more about currency destruction. It's not something we have done for a few generations now it seems. I can't imagine our government looking to grab our private metals, but in extemis who knows?

LogansRun's picture
LogansRun
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You can hide it in my yard

I promise no one will find it there:-p

Really, wrap it i plastic wrap.  Put it in a wooden box, wrap the box in plastic wrap till it can bounce.  Then use the liquid spray foam insulation around the plastic wrap.  Bury it at least a foot deep, with at least an inch of either Granit or Marble gravel over the top.  

My metal detector doesn't see it, and it's a Minelab E trac

jasonw's picture
jasonw
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Another idea for hiding PMs

May not be a good method of hiding precious metals from metal detectors but a recent comment from Jim H. about 25 pound bars making his pockets sag too much got me thinking about how to utilize PMs in a different way. Use them for exercise weights. 

q?_encoding=UTF8&ASIN=B0029VUEFE&Format=_SL160_&ID=AsinImage&MarketPlace=US&ServiceVersion=20070822&WS=1&tag=chrismartenso-20

Swap out the lead weights in those leg and wrist exercise bands with some 10 oz silver bars and you could have your Silver protect your wealth and health.  It also might be an interesting way to hide a stash of PMs in plain sight and nobody would be the wiser.  (making sure those ankle weights don't get sold at the next yard sale.)  Not to sure about the safely or wisdom of talking a long walk with $1400 worth of silver wrapped around each leg but might be good for getting a little extra burn in the muscles while mowing the lawn in the backyard. 

Just a random thought in the old noodle. 

Boomer41's picture
Boomer41
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Posts: 132
I am shopping for a metal

I am shopping for a metal detector. Just crossed the Minelab E trac off my list.

Alyosha K's picture
Alyosha K
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Posts: 1
The Minelab GPX5000 is

The Minelab GPX5000 is finding gold at 3-4-5 foot depths...check out some of the youtube videos on it. Scary but fun at the same time if you're a prospector. Be ready to spend $6k tho...

patmac's picture
patmac
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thoughts on US Liberty vs other countries

I've been looking for a strategy in what forms to purchase silver and gold in.

Anyone have some thoughts/ideas to share?

I just don't want to build up one form (bars/coins) and learn later that X is a better sell back or long term item.

 

Thanks!

 

Jim H's picture
Jim H
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Posts: 2379
My strategy

My strategy tends to be contrary to those seeking absolute best price...  lowest premium.  My strategy can be summed up as;

*  Get the most liquid form possible, which means;

    -  Coins minted by major Governments;  US, Canada, Austria mostly for me

    -  Smaller denominations will be easier to sell in SHTF than 100 oz Silver bars IMO

*  If possible, get them in readily identiable mint packaging, or better yet, numismatically slabbed, vs. loose coins.

    -  For Gold, US Buffalo's cut from the original plastic laminated sheet (of 20) is great... slabbed by NGC or PCGS, MS-69 (paying a whole lot more for MS-70 does NOT serve my strategy).  If I were buying another oz. of Gold today, I would buy this;

 http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/products/163229/2013-1-oz-american-gold-buffalo-ngc-ms69-early-release.aspx

You are buying a coin that has been looked at under a microsope by a coin expert, graded as both real, and near perfect (MS-70 is perfect) and then permanently sealed in the serialized holder, which is searchable on the grading service website.  If you buy from a big dealer like Gainesville, you are assured a very short chain of custody between the mint and you.. vs. buying from a LCS or at a coin show.  You pay $24 more for the graded coin than for the Buffalo in mint laminate.  I would buy a Buffalo in laminate before I buy a loose Eagle for the same reasons above.  I would though, based on the logic I have presented, buy an MS-69 slabbed Eagle, and you can do so for $11 less than the slabbed Buffalo;

http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/products/163265/2013-$50-american-gold-eagle-ngc-ms69-early-release.aspx   

 

 

 

 

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