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Daily Digest 6/12 - 'Summer Of Shocks' Threatens Market Mayhem, Is $100 Oil On The Horizon?

Sunday, June 12, 2016, 10:34 AM

Economy

How a summer of shocks threatens to bring mayhem to the markets (Aaron M.)

The most important decisions will be those made by policymakers in the US, on whether to raise interest rates, and votes cast by the British public, on the UK’s continued membership of the European Union.

Also on the schedule are the Spanish general elections, where voters could reject austerity imposed upon them by Brussels, and the potential for radical new monetary stimulus from the Bank of Japan.

China Tries to Redistribute Education to the Poor, Igniting Class Conflict (jdargis)

Parents in at least two dozen Chinese cities have taken to the streets in recent weeks to denounce a government effort to expand access to higher education for students from less developed regions. The unusually fierce backlash is testing the Communist Party’s ability to manage class conflict, as well as the political acumen of its leader, Xi Jinping.

The Land Below Zero: Where Negative Interest Rates Are Normal (jdargis)

Central bankers looking to Denmark for evidence of such trauma aren’t likely to see much. If anything, they might find the Danes’ approach tempting. A certain amount of financial weirdness aside, their country is mostly free of the distortions economic theory tells us to expect, suggesting negative rates may deserve to move from taboo to the standard monetary policy toolbox.

While Young Britons Favor Staying in E.U., They Aren’t Big on Voting (jdargis)

In this case, some analysts say, it could be particularly hard to motivate them, not just because many of them will be immersed in summer activities, but also because they are being asked to embrace the status quo rather than to take up an idealistic cause of change of the type that typically energizes young people.

The Surprising Problem With U.S. Manufacturing: It's Creating Too Many Jobs (jdargis)

Job openings in manufacturing are at a 15-year high. Layoffs are at a long-term low. Wages are rising faster in manufacturing than in the economy as a whole. The unemployment rate in manufacturing is below the overall average. Please go to the item for the full presentation, but here is one of several representative charts, showing continued recovery after the crash of 2008.

Some people may live with surprisingly small brains (jdargis)

Thanks to many other medical case studies, we now know that the brain is capable of astonishing recovery after substantial damage – even if the personality is permanently altered. Watch the video below to learn more about one particularly astonishing story of injury and recovery.

Is $100 oil on the horizon? (Adam)

Earlier this month, one investor bought more than 4 million barrels worth of call options at $110 and $80 a barrel for 2019 and 2020 in several transactions. In addition, another 800,000 barrels worth of $60 a barrel call also changed hands. The deals are public because of new regulations introduced in the U.S. by the Dodd-Frank Act. The disclosures don’t reveal the final buyer.

Why the Oil Price Rally Might Falter (jdargis)

But some might return quite quickly. The biggest new disruption is already being resolved: the wildfire that swept through Alberta's oil sands and cut daily production by about 1.2 million barrels. Canadian production is returning slowly and will continue to add supply.

Gold & Silver

Click to read the PM Daily Market Commentary: 6/10/16

Provided daily by the Peak Prosperity Gold & Silver Group

Article suggestions for the Daily Digest can be sent to [email protected]. All suggestions are filtered by the Daily Digest team and preference is given to those that are in alignment with the message of the Crash Course and the "3 Es."

116 Comments

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Time2help
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Here we go again

50 killed in shooting at Florida nightclub in possible act of Islamic terror (FoxNews)

Worst U.S. Mass Shooting (CNN)

Some interesting initial effects:

  • Fuels the "Islamic Terror", "Muslims are the baddies" rhetoric.
  • Bolsters the "guns are bad" meme. Let's "talk about guns" again.
  • Bolsters the "need more funding to fight terror" meme.
  • Spin to push the LGBT community up-in-arms over both Islamic Terror and guns.
  • Distraction from political/voting fraud shenanigans currently surrounding Clinton/Sanders. 
  • Assailant identified shortly after incident.
  • Assailants backstory fits a convenient narrative.

This event has numerous characteristics of a false flag operation.

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Here we go again

Time2help:

Don't forget taking focus off the Clinton email and funding of Clinton foundation memes.

I have been one of the longest hold out skeptics concerning false flags and the deep state but with what I have heard so far even I have trouble explaining this any other way.

My thoughts and prayers with the victims and their families and loved ones.

God help us all.

JT

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Legal 2012

The NDAA Legalizes The Use Of Propaganda On The US Public (Business Insider)

Quote:

Lt. Col. Daniel Davis, who released a highly critical report regarding the distortion of truth by senior military officials in Iraq and Afghanistan, dedicated a section of his report to Information Operations (IO) and states that after Desert Storm the military wanted to transform IO "into a core military competency on a par with air, ground, maritime and special operations."

Davis defines IO as "the integrated employment of electronic warfare (EW), computer network operations (CNO), psychological operations (PSYOP), military deception (MILDEC), and operations security (OPSEC), in concert with specified supporting and related capabilities, to influence, disrupt, corrupt or usurp adversarial human and automated decision making while protecting our own."

IO are primarily used to target foreign audiences, but Davis cites numerous senior leaders who want to (in the words of  Colonel Richard B. Leap) "protect a key friendly center of gravity, to wit US national will" by repealing the Smith-Mundt Act to allow the direct deployment of these tactics on the American public.

Davis quotes Brigadier General Ralph O. Baker — the Pentagon officer responsible for the Department of Defense’s Joint Force Development (i.e. Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines) — who defines IO as activities undertaken to "shape the essential narrative of a conflict or situation and thus affect the attitudes and behaviors of the targeted audience" and equates descriptions of combat operations with standard marketing strategies:

For years, commercial advertisers have based their advertisement strategies on the premise that there is a positive correlation between the number of times a consumer is exposed to product advertisement and that consumer’s inclination to sample the new product. The very same principle applies to how we influence our target audiences when we conduct COIN.

Davis subsequently explains the "cumulative failure of our nation’s major media in every category" as they continually interviewed only those senior U.S. officials who had top-level access, even as the officials given that clearance were required to stick to "talking points" given to them by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

If the NDAA goes into effect in its current form, the State Department and Pentagon can go beyond manipulating mainstream media outlets and directly disseminate campaigns of misinformation to the U.S. public.

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Islamic terrorism

Is there ever any real terrorism? This sure looks real to me, unless the doer has been preparing for this since birth to Afghan parents who he no doubt chose for the way they would help cover his tracks 30 years later.

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(Un)real terrorism
thc0655 wrote:

Is there ever any real terrorism? This sure looks real to me, unless the doer has been preparing for this since birth to Afghan parents who he no doubt chose for the way they would help cover his tracks 30 years later.

Either way, fireworks. Social media is exploding over this. 

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Time2help wrote: 50 killed in
Time2help wrote:

50 killed in shooting at Florida nightclub in possible act of Islamic terror (FoxNews)

Worst U.S. Mass Shooting (CNN)

Some interesting initial effects:

  • Fuels the "Islamic Terror", "Muslims are the baddies" rhetoric.
  • Bolsters the "guns are bad" meme. Let's "talk about guns" again.
  • Bolsters the "need more funding to fight terror" meme.
  • Spin to push the LGBT community up-in-arms over both Islamic Terror and guns.
  • Distraction from political/voting fraud shenanigans currently surrounding Clinton/Sanders. 
  • Assailant identified shortly after incident.
  • Assailants backstory fits a convenient narrative.

This event has numerous characteristics of a false flag operation.

Takes heat off Hillary.  See KGB.

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THC...

Here's some evidence to ponder;

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Co-conspirator?

It makes sense that Mateen would use the efforts of coconspirators to increase the body count. And it would be very easy for all of them to slip away in the chaos. Then it would be very easy for the police to "conclude" he acted alone (because that neatly wraps the case up and keeps them from having to conduct a manhunt for vaguely described suspects). Plus the liberal MSM has a motivation to forget co-conspirators. They want to convince the public that Islamic terrorism doesn't really exist except for the occasional deranged lone wolf. The existence of Islamic co-conspirators who escaped is not part of the meme and must be suppressed. 

 

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If intended to distract, the shooting incident was AWESOME

In the same way a smelly red herring fish is dragged across the olfactory trail of a hound, a really good distraction has got to activate the limbic system of most everyone.  And this shooting incident has something for almost everyone.

1.  Muslim sleeper terrorists

2.  Evil Muslims

3.  Muslims as intolerant of the mores of progressive societies.

4.  Gays. What does God (Allah) think of homosexuality?

5.  Guns.  Assault weapons.  These have no place in civilized society....

6.  Guns.  Concealed carry of other citizens.  If someone could have shot back....

7.  Metal detectors.  They should have had 'em at the club.

The only think it might have missed was transgender bathroom assignment, abortion and school prayer.

If the presumption is correct that Hillary is the designated leader of the joint AngloZionist MIIC, then many resources will be brought to bear on making us forget voting irregularities, the corruption of the super-delegate system, and the crony favoritism of the cash for favors Clinton Foundation.  Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

 

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Islamic law and scholars agree: homosexuals must be killed

I can't wait for the liberals and progressives to dance around this one.  Up until today, Obama and the progressives have included Muslims among the many minority victim groups who must be protected from evil (conservative, white) people in the US.  What no one on the left ever acknowledges is that the Koran, Islamic law (sharia)  and the accepted Islamic legal scholars all agree that homosexuality must be punished by death.  Mateen took this Islamic law seriously and acted upon it for ISIS and Allah.

https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/06/12/orlando-night-club-attack-by-known-wolf-terrorist-previously-investigated-by-fbi/

So this is going to strain the dominant meme because in this case Muslim(s) are killing gays for Islamic religious motives in the name of a fundamentalist Islamic organization (ISIS) which itself executes homosexuals.  So the natural result would be that Muslims be cast out of the rainbow coalition of victim groups.  To prevent this, the traditional Islamic view of homosexuality must be hidden from the public. That's going to be tough, but they've ignored bigger realities so I think they may succeed in blinding the public on this too.  Expect the media to parade a list of "moderate" Muslim speakers on the air to repeatedly state that "real" Muslims don't hate gays, just the disturbed inauthentic radical Muslims. What you won't hear out of the mouths of "moderate" Muslims are references to the Koran and respected Islamic scholars to support their "moderate" opinions because the Koran and Islamic scholars are united in the view that homosexuals must be executed.  Not only that but Muslims who say otherwise may themselves be subject to the death penalty.  Here it is already in the Orlando Sentinel:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/os-orlando-shooting-pulse-nightclub-20160612-story.html

"There is never, ever any justification for such unacceptable crimes against humanity, crimes against God, crimes against our country," said Hassan Shibly, executive director of the Florida branch of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

His statement was one of several offered by local Islamic groups. Imam Muhammad Musri, president of the Islamic Society of Central Florida, urged people to pray on what he called "a heart-breaking morning."

At a midday news conference, Carlos Guillermo Smith, a representative of Equality Florida, an LGBT advocacy group, stood beside Shibly.

Smith reiterated that the two communities are united.

"Let me be clear: Equality Florida stands in solidarity with the Muslim and Islamic community and in opposition to the intolerance, discrimination and hate crimes that both of our communities experience," Smith said.

Furthermore, will anyone mention that cops are widely viewed as being bigoted and hating gays but apparently didn't display any of that in this instance?  Cops (most of them white, male, heterosexual cops) rushed in to protect the gay patrons of the Pulse club with total disregard for their own safety. One of the white male SWAT members who rushed the shooter and killed him took a rifle round from the shooter to his ballistic helmet, causing a nasty looking bruise on his forehead (close call there!). Will anyone who has been legitimately concerned about the militarization of police recognize that in this situation police used an armored vehicle to smash through a wall and rescue club patrons in close proximity to the shooter (who was then attacked by SWAT)? In spite of the fear of misuse of military equipment in the hands of police, this was one perfect example of what the equipment can sometimes be needed for.

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And what do the Old and New Testaments say

about homosexuality?  Has anyone done in-depth research on THIS?   Yes, absolutely, READ the Koran as well as the Old Testament, thoroughly

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OT vs Koran

Tom-

What no one on the left ever acknowledges is that the Koran, Islamic law (sharia)  and the accepted Islamic legal scholars all agree that homosexuality must be punished by death.  Mateen took this Islamic law seriously and acted upon it for ISIS and Allah.

So I'm going to drag up that old favorite, Leviticus 20:13.  Assuming the Bible is the word of God:

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Of course, again according to the Bible (and "bible scholars will agree, also"), you also get that same punishment - death - for:

  • committing adultery
  • cursing your father or mother
  • having sex with your dad's wife
  • having sex with your daughter-in-law
  • having sex with an animal (and the innocent animal gets whacked too - I always found that one to be particularly unfair)

But these days, adulterers get away scot free, as do father-cursers, mother...lovers, and (generally speaking) those into "animal husbandry."  And fortunately, so do gay men.

One hopes those who find similarly OT-style proscriptions in the Koran don't decide to implement them in the here and now either.

Frankly, I'd be just as frosted at some hypothetical group of "Christians" practicing "Old Testament justice" as I feel towards ISIS (and others) dragging this crap out of the Koran and applying it in the modern age.  It's not the book I object to, its how people decide to use it.

My sense is, the cowardly fellow probably was upset because he had "certain conflicted feelings" towards MSM that caused him to hate himself so much, he directed it outwards rather than inwards. Someone gets triggered badly enough to shoot more than 100 unarmed people, it's not just a random thing, nor is it about religion, nor is it about him acting for ISIS.  Its very personal to him.  That's just my opinion, of course.

Here's a thought: my Ghurka brother-in-law said that in Afghanistan (to which the Ghurkas have deployed some large number of times) it is very common to see "man/boy" couples.  He called it "Gay Thursdays" and after doing some research, (http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/brinkley/article/Afghanistan-s-dirty-little-secret-3176762.php) I note that its more pedophilic than anything else - and it really does happen on Thursdays.  If a strict societal interpretation of your religion ends up denying men any meaningful interaction with the opposite sex, you end up wrapping the whole place around a very gay axle.  Human sexuality will not be denied, and the boys end up paying the price.

A too-literal (and yet selective) interpretation of Holy Scripture can cause a whole lot of mischief, it seems.

So yeah.  I don't think this guy shot a bunch of people because he was fighting for "ISIS".  I think it is possibly "something else" entirely.

But for sure, full points for the armored vehicle, the mostly-heterosexual swat team, and their eventual rescue of the victims and termination of the perpetrator.  (n.b.: friend of mine was in a relationship with a gay swat team commander for many years; they're not all straight, as I'm sure you know)

Isn't it interesting that our NSA Panopticon didn't see this one coming either?

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Comparing BLUE Muslims with GREEN Christians

I think that this is a place where the Spiral Dynamics Developmental Stage theory can be very helpful.

All religions have historical roots in BLUE (fundamentalist/orthodox), and the world religions' scriptures are BLUE and RED/BLUE, the stage of humanity during the era when the scriptures were written.  The Leviticus rules-for-conduct DaveF just cited are a good example in the JudeoChristian BLUE rules.

13 “If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

Shahak's book Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel offered many quotes from Jewish religious authorities advising on God's instructions as to how the Jewish and non-Jewish are to relate.  It isn't pretty.   Tom has brought forward several from Islam.

BLUE finds meaning, stability and purpose in adhering tightly to a belief structure and following the rules of conduct to the letter.  "Truth" is what scripture says.  Beliefs are accepted as a package in their entirety without critical analysis.  Obeying the 10 Commandments, literal belief in scriptural stories and admonitions, the subservience of wives to husbands and children to parents, prohibitions against fornication, divorce, adultery, homosexuality, the universe was created in 6 days, etc.

There are big regional differences in average developmental stage.  In general, education and conscious refection on life-experience advance developmental stage.  In rural Virginia, there are a lot of poorly educated "rednecks" (RED/BLUE).  But in Charlottesville, a university town, ORANGE, GREEN and higher predominate.  Young people from rural areas who begin to suspect that they are gay, move to Charlottesville.

One SD writer offered the following population meme distribution estimates:

The Iranian and Iraqi physicians I have worked with are ORANGE and GREEN.  They fit in well to a pluralistic American university town. 

But I also understand that the ME is generally very RED/BLUE.  As Tom points out, it does seem reasonable to suspect that Muslim immigrants will disproportionately be fundamentalist in thinking and may seek to bring their brand of "truth" to countries they move too.  And RED/BLUE generally endorses killing for God's kingdom when instructed to by scripture.

Similarly, much of the Jewish - Arab conflict can be framed in light of the BLUE thinking of the region by both sides.  Again, read of the contempt that the orthodox (BLUE) Jewish teachers hold for the non-Jewish. It is as profound as the contempt that the BLUE Muslim hold for the non-Muslim.  To the degree that BLUE holds sway, humanity is in trouble.

 

 

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blue & green & triggers

SP-

Yes, I agree with your colorful analysis.

And I also think I was just a bit triggered by a semi-victory-lap finger-pointing at the bad BLUE bits in one holy book, while completely ignoring the fact that the "other" holy book says the same freaking thing!

The emphasis needs to be on the BLUE behavior, not on the BLUE bits of the non-favored holy book.  Unless of course your own holy book has no BLUE bits in it, in which case the finger-pointing can start now.  Taoists, I'm talking to you!

Point about BLUE immigrants arriving wielding their own holy book at odds with our own equally popular holy book (with its own BLUE bits) being a potential source for trouble is absolutely not lost on me, and I'm in complete agreement.

That said, the fortunately-now-deceased perp wasn't an immigrant, he was born in New York.

Again, I believe that nobody shoots that many gay men unless there's a very specific issue going on.

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Sand , what are those other colors?

beige? purple? orange? yellow? turquoise?

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So how are those "bits" acted upon today

Dave wrote:

And I also think I was just a bit triggered by a semi-victory-lap finger-pointing at the bad BLUE bits in one holy book, while completely ignoring the fact that the "other" holy book says the same freaking thing!

The emphasis needs to be on the BLUE behavior, not on the BLUE bits of the non-favored holy book.

Both Muslims and Christians are responsible for interpreting their scriptures and acting on them in daily life.  Both groups, if asked, would say that God has gradually revealed truth to them and that the truth that has been revealed most recently can cause a reinterpretation of past truths when people were more primitive.  Muslim scholars call this abrogation (the most recent Koranic verses overrule the earlier verses whenever there is a conflict). Christian scholars call it progressive revelation (such as when Jesus said, "You have heard it said, 'Hate your enemies.' But I say to you, 'Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.'").

So, Dave, what behaviors do you see coming out of the Muslim and Christian communities around the world?  Do you see Christians throwing homosexuals off of roofs?  Do you see any nation states claiming the Bible is the law of their land executing homosexuals as official judicial action (as is done in Iran, Saudi)?  Do you hear leading Christian scholars in leading universities and seminaries advocating the execution of adulterers and homosexuals, and praising those who do?  You don't because Christians, by and large (not counting the less than 200 kooks at Westboro Baptist Church), have reinterpreted those Leviticus passages you so helpfully provided in the light of the life and words of Jesus.  Muslims, however, find the tolerant, peaceful parts in the very beginning of the Koran (from Mohammed's early career) and the militant, violent, intolerant parts after that, and they believe those later verses overrule the earlier tolerant verses.

I agree.  Let's keep focusing on the behavior of all peoples. But let's don't disregard what Muslim fundamentalists say are their motives and Koranic guides when they do engage in mass murder.  

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Old Testament compared to Koran

I will add that it really helps to understand what the Church and the New Testament has been consistently clear about for 2,000 years regarding the Old Testament. The Old Testament itself described its covenant with the Jewish people, and how that covenant would be fulfilled. The New Testament describes how then Jesus came and himself said that he fulfilled the covenant, as predicted, and that the new covenant is what binds Christians. The old covenant had a great deal of harsh law and action, which had its purposes, which you can look up on your own if you're that curious about it. But it is important to understand the context, as explained throughout both the Old and New Testament, and which has been consistently interpreted for 2,000 years.

Islam, as far as I know, does not have a similar stepping stone to a covenant that is completely about love. Compare the founders of the two religions. I think you know some of the stories of Jesus. Mohammad, “the perfect man” to be imitated by all muslims, had multiple wives, the youngest of which was six. The marriage was consummated when she was nine. That is pedophilia, promoted by example by the perfect man. He participated in and oversaw slaughter of hundreds and thousands of innocents, as documented in Islam's writings. Muslims who do these things today are not being extreme. They are simply following the example of their founder. Muslims who denounce these acts (the majority of muslims) don’t truly understand their religion.

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Spiral Dynamic Summary Page

I'm putting a summary page here as this has been a wonderful cognitive framework for me for making sense out of the world.

A Meme is a "paradigm" world view.  They tend to move in stages (similar to Piaget's cognitive developmental stages).  But not always.

The lowest Memes are pretty much only seen in pre-school classes and very primitive peoples.

Nobody is all one Meme.  Our thinking at any given time is spread out among several yet the center-of-gravity can be described as being in one meme.

Development from one meme to another, when moving quickly, takes 5 years or more.

Here is an introduction to the Spiral Dynamics model of Memes. (a source, start on slide 12; and here)

Memes are the various gestalt / world-view / psycho-social developmental stages.  Every religion can be "done" from every meme.  Difference between memes are far more profound than differences between religions.

RED Meme

General description  Social structures arraigned around warlords who hold power over vassals through superior force;  “Lord of the Flies.”  Darth Vader.  Villains in super-hero movies.  Impulsive; little thought for the future.  Morality:  If one has the power to dominate, it is “right” to do so.  “Might makes right.”  Casual violence and sex as tools for intimidation and domination and reward for being strong. Views others as predators or prey.  Respects others to the degree that they can hurt him.  Warlord will demand vassals fight to expand warlord’s power base.  Seen in the USA now in inner city and prison gangs.  Ethno(socio)centric tribe.  RED is unmoved by empathy and does not embrace basic moral principles or law.  The desires of the warlord are the highest authority.  Dominant morality of humanity in millennia past.

Religious manifestations:  God is a kickass warlord, can be enraged and lashes out with supernatural retribution--lightning, floods, pillar of salt. God calls the loyal to expand His Kingdom through violence.  Grants the faithful a mighty sword to “spill the blood” of evil out-group (heathens, gentiles, infidels) which are to be shown-no-mercy.  Feels “right” about killing, raping, plundering, torturing, and burning villages provided it is done “for God.”  Crusades, Jihads. Extermination of out-groups. Biblical cruelty.

BLUE

General:  Law and order.  Rules of morality.  Ten Commandments.  Magna Carta.  Military codes of conduct; Rules. Righteousness. “Truth” found in scripture.  The foundation of law.  Many military and LEOs begin here.  BLUE LEOs are necessary to contain the chaos and lawlessness of RED.  Honorable combat between soldiers.  Follows correct procedure, obeys legitimate authority and lawful orders.  Regards the law as higher authority than the desires of an individual leader.  An insightful BLUE may refuse to follow an unconstitutional or immoral order. Views others as righteous or sinners.  The BLUE meme usually overlaps with a cognitive development level called mythic-membership, where loyalty and identity is subsumed in a mythic group (such as a religion, creed, nationality or club).  Embraces and internalizes moral code, behaves honorably, keeps his word.  Strongly developed conscience feels shame when caught lying or cheating.

Religious:  God/Scriptures/Prophets give us the rules to live by and tell us what is “True.”  Abiding by the rules exactly pleases God; Righteousness. “Truth” found in scripture. Orthodox and fundamentalist religious thinking.  Understanding of the physical universe based in scripture (such as the world was created in 7 days).

ORANGE

General:  Concerned with achievement, getting ahead; accomplishment; status; material wealth.  Inventing the next big thing.  Going down in history. Getting a Ph.D., Black Belt, Nobel Prize, doctors, lawyers, CEOs, setting records, Ivy league diploma.  Leadership. Public office. “Truth” comes from Science.  Strategic thinking, seeks advantage to get ahead.  Sees others as winners and losers.  The TV game show:  Survivor.  Stock investment newsletters. Takes college courses.  Morality: May cheat or lie if sure it can be kept secret. Stretches rules for advantage, but knows that a reputation as unethical impairs business and political opportunities.  Emerged from BLUE, and "healthy ORANGE" has a conscience and feels shame when caught lying.  Moves towards world-centric viewpoint generally.  May find advantage by covertly aligning with secret mutually supportive mythic group for power and profit.

Religious:  Churches as investment syndicates.  Spreading influence.  Money and membership numbers growing.  Holding leadership / rank in a church organization.  Religious membership as a business, economic, political network.  Scientific explanations of physical world supplant religious myths.

GREEN

The sensitive person.  Empathy and caring.  Human bond.  Egalitarian.  Includes everyone.   The golden rule.  “My religion is simple:  Kindness”.  Views others as “sensitive” or “insensitive.”   Values each person’s perspective equally.  Morality: Aware that lying destroys trust and intimacy.  Will not deceive due to the destructive impact on a relationship.  May view “Truth” as an intuitive perception of what is right (“listening to still small voice of God”) or embrace a philosophy/religion that is egalitarian.  Mistakenly believes that others share this sensitive and egalitarian outlook -- seriously misunderstanding them. 

Religious:  Religion shows us how to be kind to everyone, including the elderly, powerless, sinners. Gives to homeless shelter, soup kitchens.  Religion as social activism for the poor.  God “chooses” everyone.  All races and religions are “God’s people.” World-centric. Parables: The Good Samaritan, The Woman at the Well. The Golden Rule.

YELLOW

General:  Able to see each of the memes as developmental stages and assess the limitations of each.  Perspectives understood to be relative, but ranks perspectives by effectiveness, flexibility and accuracy.  Ecologically oriented.  Watches the flow of resources, people, thinking, monetary systems, social movements.  (Flexflow)

Religious:  Religious experience often in nature. Wishes to permit each group to express itself but not allow any one group to dominate the whole.  (Amish community does not make laws for the Catholic community or secular academic community, etc.)

And one example:  The issue of truth telling vs lying

RED:  Hell yes.  I lie when every it offers me advantage.  If you are stupid enough to fall for the lie, you deserve to be taken.

BLUE:  I tell the truth because the Lord tells me to in the holy scripture.

ORANGE:  I am tempted to lie sometimes, but being discovered as a liar is really damaging to my reputation and makes further dealings more difficult as they no longer trust me.  All in all, lying is bad for business and my career.

GREEN:  Lying violates our relationship.  How can I be open in trust and intimacy with you if I am lying?  No. I will tell the truth.

YELLOW:  Telling the truth is by far the best practice in general.  (But occasionally a lie may serve a higher goal and may be necessary.)

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700 years of Inquisition

followed by Georgetown University Jesuits selling Blacks for $$$$$.  Priestly/Minister/Rabbi pedophilia. Scamming BIG TIME tele-evangelists, sucking up the $$$$.  We can compare the individual religious founders and then we can also compare their founding institutions' behavior, over time. Not a pretty picture, methinks.

I wonder how many of us have actually read the Koran and Old Testament right through to the end?? And does it matter anyway?

And then the varied interpretations?  And how many selectively pick and choose what supports their own agenda?  Will it ever end.  Probably not.  At least we have something to write about and debate.  So, finally, where is TRUTH?  I personally see an infinite number of people each having his/her individualized truth, with small t. 

Which seems a lot like our debates about the financialization of the world, especially the ENDGAME. Each has his/her global analysis and of course, we know who is right, right?

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Maybe just a homicidal maniac?

Turns out the lunatic that massacred 50 innocents spent alot of time at the nightclub over the last 3 years,He also engaged in gay dating apps according to the Orlando Sentinel.Was especially fond of beating up women as well.Maybe not that deep,obsessed with law enforcement,taunting co-workers etc.Conspiracy?Maybe not.50 lives that mattered,yes....

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one funeral at a time

If a bunch of BLUE people are quoting the bad bits from their Holy Scripture, I agree, we need to pay attention.  In some sense, all these Holy Scriptures have a collection of things in them that are sure to please somebody.  You like love, healing the sick, turning the other cheek?  Sure, we've got some of that.  You prefer divine retribution and the annihilation of entire citites, and passages that explicitly justify you killing people who make you uncomfortable?  Yep, got that too.  Something for everybody - for every color in SP's rainbow.  It just depends on what you want to focus on.

So ultimately the issue is about you, not about the scripture itself.

Fifty years ago, Westboro Baptists were mainstream.  Cops used to bust gay bars.  Now we have some cops who are openly gay, and Westboro Baptists are seen as kooks.  Holy Scripture is unchanged.  Its amazing what fifty years and a whole lot of "re-interpretation" will bring you.  To paraphrase Max Planck, "mainstream religion gets kinder, more loving, and more tolerant one funeral at a time."  Thank Heaven.

One hopes the news of this success will make it to the places where the followers of Islam remain mostly BLUE, and they will follow our example.  Christianity is definitely showing the way: we can see for ourselves that it IS possible for a group of people that engaged in terrible behavior in the name of that faith to reform and rise above the sum of their former bad acts.  I think Jesus would be proud of how far Christianity has come even over the last fifty years.  I mean, look at the Pope.  He's even addressed the whole Pedophile Priest issue!

But trumpeting one book over another?  Hubris.  Given the sins committed by people following explicit instructions from  Our Holy Scripture down through the millenia, I say "Let he whose book has no evil bits in it - let him cast the first stone."

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Can we not separate what the

Can we not separate what the Church (that was founded by Jesus) teaches and what the Church’s members do? We have had and will continue to have bad lay people, bad priests, bad bishops and bad popes. Their (and everyone’s, since we all fail to live perfectly) anti-Christian behavior has been condemned by the Church, and the evil of these many people was committed while official Church doctrine remained consistent for 2,000 years. Doctrine has not been changed or deleted; the Church doesn’t even have the authority to do that (although Protestant churches do, which, yes, is part of why we have hundreds of them). That doctrine is understood to be the universal Truth, which cannot change. A world where each individual holds their own individualized truth is worrisome. This is moral relativism. First, what is that understanding of the universe grounded on? Second, moral relativism condones evil and selfish behavior (I imagine we have many relativists in the banking world). If Jack’s truth is that other humans are not worthy of dignity or respect, who are you to say that Jack shouldn’t follow his truth and commit whatever evil he wishes to?

I don’t wish to get into a religious or spiritual debate, as that could go on forever, and I did that enough in my years as an agnostic and devout atheist. I respect anyone who is curious about trying to better understand the universe around them. I understand the difficulty of getting on board with religion. It took me a very long time. And I agree with Kenneth when he remarked that few people have read these books. Not only that, who has spent time understanding the context and the official doctrinal teachings? And who disagrees with what the Church actually teaches and not what they believe the Church teaches? If organized religion really turns you off, then I suggest seeking understanding of natural law. Aristotle’s philosophical writings on natural law and morality are a place to begin.

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My reply gave an anecdotal counter example

... but was deleted, it seems.

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genesis

dan9c-

Well the Genesis of my participation in this thread was when I read Tom's post entitled:

Islamic law and scholars agree: homosexuals must be killed

And I just wanted to point out, Our Holy Scripture says the exact same thing.  Thankfully it has been very generously reinterpreted (i.e. the bits that say "kill gay people" are now being ignored, such joy) in recent years so that gay people can actually meet in clubs without getting raided by the police, or thrown in jail for having sex, which is awfully convenient if either you, your friends, or your children happen to be gay and are just trying to live life like everyone else.  "Hey pal, the Bible said to kill you and we're only throwing you in jail.  We're actually being nice here."  That's how it used to be, you know.

Do Islamic countries put gay people to death?  Some do, as it turns out, with ISIS seemingly the most enthusiastic enforcer.  Tom's point about that was entirely accurate.  Thank heavens we don't have ridiculous people here who actually read our Holy Bible and then decide to follow it down to the letter.  Anymore, I mean.  Except for the kooks at Westboro Baptist.  And the occasional guest on Fox.  Oh well, nothing's perfect.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/13/here-are-the-10-countries-where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death-2/

If Jack’s truth is that other humans are not worthy of dignity or respect, who are you to say that Jack shouldn’t follow his truth and commit whatever evil he wishes to?

Oh that's an easy one.  You start with Free Will - meaning everyone deserves to pursue life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness according to their own lights - and as long as what they do doesn't impinge on your free will or anyone else's, they should be allowed to do it.  Its kind of a golden rule: let someone else live their life, because that's what you'd like them to do for you also.

Of course if Jack impinges on someone else's free will - well that's where the rules come in.  Society gets to determine that.

We're put on earth to have a human experience, and we get to set the rules down here according to our best idea of right and wrong.  Its part of the fun of being here; figuring out what's right and what's wrong, what works and what doesn't.

I believe that more freedom is better, and leads to better outcomes.  Not because the Bible says so (that's just an Appeal to Authority fallacy), but because it allows everyone as much freedom as possible to experience life here on Earth.  Less potential for arbitrary conflict because of someone's stupid rule (can't eat pork - can't eat beef - can't eat seafood, etc) means more freedom to experience life and find out for yourself what works and what doesn't.

Experience is the best teacher.  Being forced to live according to someone else's stupid rule: a distant second-best.

I'm not a libertarian, or an atheist, or a Godless Communist, or a moral relativist.  I don't fit neatly into any particular box.  I'm just me; my philosophy is, live and let live, as best you can.

You did ask.  :-)

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Dave, which meme is ideal?

You said, for example, “that'ssjust an appeal to authority fallacy." Now, if we were talking logic, I'd agree that appeal to authority is a fallacy. But for blue meme, isn't appeal to authority spot on?

If you are a kid growing up in a tough RED/BEIGE neighborhood, wouldn't appeal to authority be a good idea?

Let's try to think in and through all memes, even if we aren't yellow.

In response to the story of Jack, you said, "oh, that's an easy one. You start with (green meme) and then..."

But everyone doesn't start with green meme. Some people start in violently abusive homes, or in a home that has serious BEIGE issues.

Let me posit a different way of looking at things. Consider the owner of a collapsing mine who simply refused to integrate MSHA required safety principles for profit's sake? Is he any less violent than the Orlando shooter? Or consider all the people killed by Bayer opiate painkillers. Are they any less murderous?

Do you think there could be a good reason for the scripture, “Thou shalt not permit a pharmacist/poisoner/witch to live" (translation difficulties aside, denoted by multiple translations).

Could a Green see their way to agreeing?

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Didn't think I'd ever have a spiritual discussion here!

Hi Dave,

Regarding your first point – I responded to this when I discussed the consistently interpreted context of the Old and New Testaments. The Old Testament still possesses truth, but it is helpful to understand the book as a documentation of the old covenant(s) with the Jewish people during a very different time in history. It itself explains that the purpose was to keep the Jewish people surviving and to reveal God and his plan over time. We also guide a 3-year old differently than we guide a 13-year old. The Old Testament details the laws that were handed to the Jewish people to maintain social structure to help them survive so that God could reveal himself the way that he planned to.  Some of these laws were very harsh, especially from our modern point of view. But they were not radical in those times.

Just for fun – pretend for a minute that that this Bible God is real and that everything in the book is real. We don’t know his mind. If he truly is the omniscient, all-powerful god, then he can intervene and communicate however he pleases. He made everything, and he can take away anything and everything as he sees fit. He probably knows what is best, if he truly is the one.

And as I said previously, the old covenant has been fulfilled and is done away with. This is a basic, foundational, defining aspect of Christianity.

I’m with you on the points on Islam.

Regarding Jack and Free Will – I agree; free will is essential. But it is still complex. In a world of moral relativism, how do we decide when someone else’s free will (or rights, feelings, etc.) is infringed upon or damaged? If you think it’s OK to cheat on your wife because that’s your individual truth/morality, well, you didn’t physically hurt her…so is it also emotions and feelings that should be protected? You can think of many other similar scenarios in our daily lives where we can hurt each other.

And then there’s the issue of hurting ourselves with our own free will, which could be a result of mental illness or simply a result of poor moral formation. There are plenty of people in the world with all kinds of unnatural, awful fetishes and desires. Many people have the desire to eat other people. And other people have the desire to be eaten by other people. This happens sometimes when they are able to connect, and I’m sure you heard about the high profile case in Germany a while back. In such a consensual act of cannibalism and murder, should we be supportive? If people want to have sexual relationships with animals or if they want to cut their own limbs off or starve themselves, should we be supportive because it is OK with their individual truth? No. Those things aren’t good for them (I’m very sorry if you disagree with this). We should try to help them live according to natural law (which includes not eating people, only attempting to procreate with other humans, etc.) because it provides the best opportunity for human flourishing. I’m not saying that we should force everyone to live by certain rules in the Bible. I’m saying that we can observe the natural order and morality around us, and recognize what is best for us. This does not make us less free. It helps us help ourselves and others, and helps to free us of our inclinations and temptations to do wrong.

At some point we have to ask ourselves what is the point of being here. Just to live and let live? We can certainly flourish here on Earth and have a grand old time. What happens after that? If nothing happens to anyone after death, then our grand old time (and this entire universe) is truly brief and meaningless. What difference does it make if we behave like Gandhi or like Hitler? The end result is the same. Death, meaninglessness and emptiness. For everyone. For all of history. We can say that we make the most of our time here on Earth, but that is the equivalent of placing ourselves in the Matrix, pretending that our lives have meaning just because—for a  while—we can see, hear, smell, taste, feel and think. Many people are comfortable with living and someday dying this way. It sounds like you are, and I’m genuinely happy that you have peace. But I imagine you’re still curious to understand how everything might have gotten here in the first place. There had to be a creator for the creation, and it’s worth trying to seek him out if he really made all of this. Like I already said, I know that it’s easier said than done. If it so happens that there is life after death, then attaining that life seems ideal (and has many other benefits to life here on Earth, including purpose/meaning and peace). We should also be able to explain why we believe in life after death, if that is truly what we believe. Assuming it exists and that we’ll end up there is folly and dangerous. This is one reason why many of us choose to live in a purposeful universe rather than a meaningless universe.

Excuse me if I don’t continue commenting on this. Just four or five years ago, I was still arguing the other side quite vehemently wherever I could. My goal is to follow that golden rule thing, and for me it means doing all of this every once in a while. At least we’re probably all on the same page with other big things in life! We wouldn’t be here otherwise.

Michael – Sorry, I don’t know what happened to your comment. I never saw it and certainly did not flag anything.

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ideal memes

MR-

Which meme is ideal?  That's a great question.  I think most people have a "base operating place" while they venture into other areas as the mood/skill/need arises.  The best meme is the one where you're the most comfortable.

If I were being attacked, I'd jump into RED because - I'd prefer to survive rather than die.   I guess that makes me not-GREEN.  I don't identify with SP's relatives at all.  And my feelings about the migrant issue in Europe also has me definitely not-GREEN.  However I'm not RED and I really don't like all of BLUE's rules, and ORANGE is completely non-spiritual and that certainly doesn't fit anymore, so what does that leave?

As for your mine owner - in my world, if society said that these safety rules were the norm, and he failed to implement them and people died, he's responsible and deserves punishment.  Again, "free will" isn't a license to do whatever you want and/or fail to act and cause harm through negligence.  Its a guiding principle.  For instance: it supports religious freedom (as long as your religious practices don't involve harm to another), marriage freedom, drug legalization - the "personal" bits of the libertarian philosophy.  State shouldn't intrude in anything personal.

You said, for example, “that's just an appeal to authority fallacy." Now, if we were talking logic, I'd agree that appeal to authority is a fallacy. But for blue meme, isn't appeal to authority spot on?

Hmm I think you made a good point.  Its a logical fallacy in this sense only: "because the Bible says this is ok, the action I am about to take is therefore a moral act."  The alleged authority is the Bible, and we've already determined that the Bible contains bad bits that are distinctly immoral that really need to be ignored - er, I mean, "re-interpreted."  And so you're right back to trusting yourself again.  Which bits should I follow and which should I ignore?

But from the standpoint of BLUE looking for a code to follow, authority isn't a fallacy, its helpful.  Soldiers need this, so do police, so they get through the day without getting shot.  "Law says X" and so you enforce it, with some discretion.   ROE says this, and that lets you shoot or not shoot, giving responsibility to whomever crafted the ROE.  So maybe - meme color you spend most of your time in depends on your job, to some degree.

I've often found that people's professions end up really transforming them over time.

 

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spiritual discussions

dan9c-

Well I'm enjoying the discussion, even if you aren't.  :-)  I don't think you quite understand where I'm coming from, but you might get more by the end.

The Old Testament details the laws that were handed to the Jewish people to maintain social structure to help them survive so that God could reveal himself the way that he planned to.  Some of these laws were very harsh, especially from our modern point of view. But they were not radical in those times.

Problem is, a metric crapload of people today don't make the careful distinctions you do about history and convenents, etc.  They believe every word in the Holy Scripture is literally the Word of God.  Can you see how this might be problematic?  That's my only issue.  I have no problem with people like you who see the OT as an outdated rulebook.  Its the ones that want to apply this outdated rulebook today that disturb me.

In a world of moral relativism, how do we decide when someone else’s free will (or rights, feelings, etc.) is infringed upon or damaged?

That's pretty simple too.  Its consensus of society.  We figure it out together, based on how we feel about the issue.  We're guided by our collective wisdom, and we do our best to sort it out.  We don't need some book to tell us how we (collectively) feel about it.  But if both people consent, we give them the benefit of the doubt.  That's how I'd do it.

If you think it’s OK to cheat on your wife because that’s your individual truth/morality, well, you didn’t physically hurt her…so is it also emotions and feelings that should be protected?

Look, when two people get together, they form an agreement.  If the agreement is, "no cheating" then if you cheat, you've broken the agreement.  Breaking an agreement always has consequences.  Bible says: consequence for breaking this agreement (was) death.  We don't need to use that same consequence today.  And, just maybe, the consequence can be determined between just those two people without involving book or Deity or any outside authority at all.  Its just between them.  That would be my suggestion.  We should be able to figure out for ourselves how bad someone else's action makes us feel, and what the appropriate punishment might be.  Shouldn't we?

There are plenty of people in the world with all kinds of unnatural, awful fetishes and desires. Many people have the desire to eat other people. And other people have the desire to be eaten by other people.

Really.  You're going to rest your argument on consensual cannibalism?  And you've noticed that many people want to eat other people?  You live in a different world from me.  I haven't run into any people like that.  The oddest request I ever got was that someone wanted me to punch them.  I declined.  I didn't try and rush them into counseling or arrest them or otherwise interfere with their life.  They wanted to be hit.  I didn't ask why, I didn't moralize, I just declined.  I assumed they had their reasons; they had their life track, and I had mine.

But the point is still important.  It's clear that you feel the need to control other people's fetishes.  They make you uncomfortable, and your natural response is to crack down.  For their own good, of course.  But...who defines awful?  Some people enjoy S&M.  Is that awful?  Who says so?  How about toe sucking/foot fetishists?  Is that awful too?  Well, if you don't wash first...but there are people who like that too.  Who decides what's an awful fetish and what's not?  You're signing up to be the Arbiter of Awful?

I’m saying that we can observe the natural order and morality around us, and recognize what is best for us. This does not make us less free. It helps us help ourselves and others, and helps to free us of our inclinations and temptations to do wrong.

Sure, recognizing what is best for ourselves is the essence of our journey according to our free will.   We learn what's best for us through experience.  (And some people need a whole lot of experiences before they finally get it).  On the other hand, "recognizing" what's best for someone else is the essence of annoying paternal hubris, and ultimately that robs them of essential life experience.

"Observing the natural order" is code for "preventing others from doing anything that makes me feel uncomfortable."  It justifies removing someone else's free will simply because you believe you know better.  That's appropriate during childhood, for the safety of the child, but at some point, people need to experience life without someone else deciding what's good for them.  And if you haven't walked a mile in their shoes, just maybe you don't really have the answer, even though you've "observed the natural order" and have determined they have an awful fetish or self-destructive impulse that needs to be controlled.

Some people have to try drugs out to figure out they're not good.  Some people don't need this.  Who are you to dictate their life path for them?  You think you are that wise?  Maybe there's more going on here than you know.  I have seen so many people really learn a lesson only when they've gone through a very difficult experience; had I been able to paternalistically "save" them from having that experience, I would have been robbing them of an essential life lesson that ultimately made them a better person.

At some point we have to ask ourselves what is the point of being here.

We've all signed up for the human experience.  We're here to figure out right, wrong, act, experience consequence, gain experience, and everything in between.  That's what I believe.  After death - I believe we come back to have another go.  To take another class in another body, learn some more, and eventually, to master ourselves and the human experience.  And we've volunteered for all of it because as a consciousness (soul?) independent of the body, we want to incorporate here and engage because we can learn things here that we cannot learn elsewhere.

But that's just my belief system.  That's why free will is so important to me.  Without it, we can't learn nearly as much.  Sometimes we need to get punched in the face a few times before you learn that keeping your hands raised is important.

There is no substitute for genuine experience.  In my belief system anyway.

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I think you just got to my point, which was...

... that we actually are all memes. So is our society. Yes, our society is more of one meme than another, probably for a very good reason.

I also think that even ancient societies were actually all memes. Even the primitive Ecuadoran Waudani, who acted red, and spend a large fraction of their effort in beige, still experienced blue, purple, DEFINITELY yellow...

So if they were all memes, I surmise that so were the people and societies through history.

And so is the Bible all memes. complete with revelation for all memes. So no, I don't throw out the distasteful parts and say they are wrong; I find them distasteful because of me, But I consider that there may be wisdom there that I don't understand. There may be a reason that homosexuality is so strongly condemned.

And just because I have Christian principles that work against me ever carrying out the punishment, doesn't make me less aware that #this is strongly condemned#.

Does that make me a risk in other peoples' books? Maybe. But the Christian PATH is quite green, even if the interpretation is turquoise and the hatred of sin is blue and the determination and bullheadedness is almost red.

Oh, and I'm sorry if I disturb you, but I am one of those people. I probably have my reasons.

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this is strongly condemned

MR-

90% of what you do doesn't disturb me at all.  True Christians who are forgiving, loving, kind, and seek to emulate the Christ have my admiration and respect.

However, condemning someone (did Jesus condemn anyone?  I thought he was into forgiving) who is just acting according to their inner nature and who isn't harming anyone else - that actually does cause damage, whether you realize it or not.  If your child is gay, your condemnation and projection of shame will cause a very great deal of damage to your child, because they can no more control their inner nature than you can.

Quick question: did you choose the "straight lifestyle?"

And just because I have Christian principles that work against me ever carrying out the punishment, doesn't make me less aware that #this is strongly condemned#.

Yes, #strongly condemned# by some writer 3000 years ago writing down rules for a very different society, as dan9c has pointed out.

Maybe they needed more people desperately, and so even the gay men had to suck it up, take a wife, have sex twice and pop out two babies.  Wife would have been quite frustrated (and I've definitely seen that particular story play out), but what can you do?  Book says you can't be gay or you're dead.

Likely this particular OT condemnation has negative value in an already-overpopulated world.  Do you think we should all still be fruitful and multiply too?

Did you ever consider that the more gay people we have, the lower the rate of population growth?

Perhaps we should be guided less on what was written 3000 years ago for one tribe of humans in a specific  circumstance, and more on what applies to us in our current situation today.

It's a thought anyway.

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Was the Orlando mass shooting a false flag attack?

Was the Orlando mass shooting a false flag attack? (Wake up world)

http://wakeup-world.com/2016/06/15/orlando-mass-shooting-a-false-flag-at...

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Straight is much more than homo/hetero

Dave, can you really call a guy who gets lap dances regularly, straight? At least by the definition given by Christ, no. So straight is far more than hetero/homo.

To answer your question, initially, I was just a child, neither straight or not. Then, when I was a kid, someone laid out a whole bunch of porn in a streambed, where kids like me like to stand and watch the stream, right below a bridge.

I was hooked. For maybe ten years, I headed deeper into that: literature, pictures, fantasies, computer games, and more. About that time, I had a roommate who told how he was freed from all that through confession. I realized that I, too, needed to do that, and I did.

(The condemnation isn't of the person, but of the sin. Jesus did no less.)

Now, two parallel stories: on the one side, I battled this for seven years and lost, repeatedly trying again, failing, and returning to the confessional, until in prayer G-d told me, "this is too much for you, I'm taking it away". And He did. Other parallel story: G-d opened a conversation with me. About that time, I prayed and asked him to find me a wife who would lead me to Him, and whom I would lead to Him. He did exactly that. Having options to seek comfort elsewhere, I specifically saw it as other, unknowns that themselves might be no better or worse than what I already had, but this having the extra blessing of G-d's grace on it. So I continually chose "straight", to this day.

Regarding the nature of sex, it seemed to me that the best operator practices involved reverse engineering the system, and seeing what had been designed. Moreover, the user manual seemed to indicate the same. So again, I consciously chose to go in that direction, and not nurture other inclinations --which inclinations I think many people have at some level.

So to answer your question: early on, no. Later, yes. And having been there, done that, I can say that I did not find it damaging to learn that G-d found my natural inclinations extremely sin#ul. In fnct, there was a part of me that agreed with the judgement from the first.It's like when a basketball coach tells a ten year old kid he doesn't know how to shoot. The kid has been missing shots left and right, and the coach is more than willing to help the kid get it right, so there's absolutely no damage to the coach tellin' it like it is.

Regarding your social engineering postulates, I think you are missing something: the nature of the coming population curve. Being fruitful and multiplying is no less important before and during a population crash. In fact, seeing the popUation crash of the passenger pigeon or the Michigan Locust, I'd say it is especially important then. But maybe I'm wrong. Regardless, I was allowed from being locked into red meme, into the full range of memes through the spiritual gift of what happened, and I don't lightly toss that away.

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A Skeptical Take on the Orlando Shooting (PCR)

A Skeptical Take On The Orlando Shooting (Paul Craig Roberts)

Quote:

Some readers have asked for my take on the Orlando Shooting.

I don’t have one. Let’s see if together we can form a reasonable view.

Let’s start with the basic first question. Before there can be a murder declared, there must be a body. Has anyone seen on TV or in newspapers pictures of dead bodies? Bodies should be readily available if the reports are correct that fifty people were killed and 50 or more were wounded and in hospital.

I cannot bear the presstitute TV and print media. These are full-time propaganda organizations. Hopefully, some of you hold your nose and watch the news and can fill in the spaces. Has anything we have been told been confirmed by any real evidence?

Initially, I saw a CNN newscast and a RT report. The reports were heavy with verbiage of blood being all over the place, but the only visual evidence offered were three people, supposedly injured, being helped, not by medics or first responders, but by ordinary folks. A couple of people were helping a guy with tattoos in place of a shirt, but there was no sign of blood. Several people were helping people in police uniforms to carry a person who they dumped in the back of a pickup truck, not in the cab. About 6 people were carrying a person stretched out prone (no stretcher) down a street.

There was no blood and it looked like a crisis acting performance. Why prone? Is an injured person really able to keep his body stiff so that he can be carried along prone parallel to the ground? Where are they taking him? Is this just a camera walk-by? http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/06/12/orlando-nightclub-shooting-witness-sot.cnn/video/playlists/orlando-nightclub-shooting/ What has become of the protocol that untrained people are not to attempt to help injured people? When police arrive at a scene, they usually run off bystanders, not recruit them to assist their activities or allow them to carry away the wounded and dead.

Readers have noticed that the visual evidence does not match the verbal reports. Readers report that Fox “News” and MSNBC repeatedly show the same footage described above of bystanders carrying supposedly injured victims whose facial expressions are completely unstressed and show no pain, fear, or blood.

So has anyone seen any dead bodies? Any body bags? Any wounded taken to hospitals in ambulances? Any of the hospital wounded interviewed by TV reporters? Has any reporter checked with the morgue?

Allegedly, people inside the massacre location made cell phone calls and texted. But no one took photos or videos? Are there no security cameras? No doormen to notice a heavily armed person enter?

With 50 people killed and 50 or more wounded and reports of oceans of blood, there should be plenty of evidence Have any of you seen any of it?

As far as I know, dead bodies, other than those of the perpetrators themselves, seldom if ever emerge from the terrorist attacks. No dead bodies materialized from the Paris attacks except those of the alleged perpetrators. No dead bodies ever emerged from the Sandy Hook shootings. The only dead bodies I recall from the San Bernardino shooting were the husband-and-wife-alleged-perpetrators, and their hands were handcuffed behind their backs. Do police handcuff dead people who the police have shot to pieces? I don’t remember dead bodies from Brussels, just reports of dead bodies.

One could say that the media is averse to invading the privacy of dead people and their relatives by showing dead bodies, or that the media doesn’t want to show gruesome scenes—except for the videos of Muslim terrorists cutting off people’s heads. But by now the unanswered questions from the various shootings have created so much skepticism that a person would think the media would provide corroborative evidence for the official claims.

Maybe they have. As I admit, I don’t watch the presstitute news.

In order to shoot 100 people, the principal weapon allegedly used, an AR-15, would have had to have been reloaded several times, a procedure that takes enough time for people to rush the shooter and overpower him.

Is it possible for one person to shoot 100 people successfully but not be able to shoot even one cop when police appear? Remember the Charlie Hebdo event. The two killers were highly professional when they wiped out the magazine staff and a policeman in the street, but later when confronted by police they were so hapless and incompetent as to suggest that they were not the same people. Remember the San Bernardino shootings. Three eyewitnesses said that the shooters were three muscular males dressed in black, not a husband and diminutive wife with a new baby.

What is most troublesome about these shootings is that the story seems already prepared by the government and is immediately set. We are fed the story before there is time for investigation by government or media. The media never investigate. The media just repeat the government’s story over and over until it is set in everyone’s mind. Contrary evidence is just discarded.

The alleged perpetrators are always killed, so we never hear from them. The only survivor of the various terrorisms is the younger Tsarnaev brother who has been held incommunicado. We have never heard directly from him.

One might think that by now the US media would have at least a smidgen of skeptcism. After all, for the past 15 years we have wasted trillions of dollars in wars in the Middle East based on lies that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and Assad used chemical weapons against his own people. So why is the media willing to accept whatever the government says without any investigation or even raising a question?

The chairman, co-chairman, and legal counsel of the official 9/11 Commission have said publicly that the commission was lied to by the US government, that information was withheld from the commission, and that the commission was “set up to fail.” If the government will not tell the truth to the 9/11 Commission, why would the government tell us peons the truth?

It is not reporting merely to repeat the government’s claim. But that is all we get from the payroll jobs, unemployment and inflation reports to terrorism reports and claims of “Russian aggression.”

Send your emails with URLs of news broadcasts showing dead bodies and other real evidence. Don’t send in your speculations. They might be interesting and on the mark, but what we are trying to do is to see if there is any real evidence in behalf of this latest story of mass slaughter inside a night club.

It will be difficult, perhaps even impossible, to get any truth out of the Orlando shooting. Too many vocal and well organized interest groups have a strong stake in the government’s explanation. It comes to the aid of the anti-Muslim lobby and the Trump campaign which want Muslims kept out of the US and those here arrested and deported. It comes to the aid of the gun control lobby. It comes to the aid of the progressive-left that wants to normalize homosexual and transgendered people, thus the outpouring of sympathy for those shot in the homosexual night club. It comes to the aid of the spy industry and the police state that want no check on their activities. It comes to the aid of Washington’s murderous foreign policy—so what if we blow up Muslim children—look what they do to us when they grow up, which is what the Israelis say about the Palestinians. It comes to the aid of the neoconservatives and the military-security complex for whom wars against Muslims advance their agenda and fatten their pocketbook.

All of these interests are far more powerful than the right of peons to know the truth.

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davefairtex
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human sexuality

MR-

Well I know of other experiences.  A woman I know married a man, who had very little interest in her sexually.  I got the sense they might have had sex once or twice.  They spent many years together, and even had a child, who happened to be female.   The husband wanted a boy, and so he was disappointed in how it all turned out.  The girl child felt unloved and unappreciated, and the wife felt neglected, unloved and unappreciated.  I'm not sure how the husband felt, but the marriage ultimately didn't last.  It didn't last because people were not being true to their inner nature.

Human sexuality is a complicated affair.  We tend to boil things down to straight and gay, but reality is more diverse.  For those of us on the far ends of the straight-gay scale, life is easier because choice doesn't exist. Those in the middle of the scale are able to decide for themselves which path they'd like to take.  A guy named Kinsey wrote a book back in the 1950s about the subject - he was criticized for his sampling methods, but subsequent research that used better sampling methods found similar numbers.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports

That said - if you are man, and you are attracted to women, then you're straight.  If you aren't attracted to women, but you are attracted to men, then you're gay.  Lap dances and pornography present on a different axis.  So does S&M, overall sex drive, desire for multiple partners, and so on.

So if you fall within the 10% of men who actually do have a choice about which path to take, that's great.  Straight is definitely easier.  Many are not this fortunate.  For them, its either live according to their inner nature and be condemned by people like you who take counsel from the OT 3000 year old guide-to-tribal-life, or live an inauthentic life suppressing how they really feel and hating themselves because everyone around them is shaming them through this condemnation.  "You aren't allowed to feel this way, sorry.  Go pray to have it fixed.  My ancient tribal guidebook says this is wrong, and I believe it to be true.  You are fortunate I don't kill you because that's what my guidebook says to do.  Its a good thing for you that Jesus came along or else you'd be in a body bag right now."

Inner nature suppression via shaming leads to drug abuse, alcohol abuse, self-hatred, and suicide.  Suppression of one's inner nature by parents is very damaging.  Perhaps you will get to see this played out in your own life if you ever have a child.  We've talked about the 22 vets per day that kill themselves.  Well, 30% of gay teens attempt suicide by the time they're 15.  Damage done to our vets through the guilt they feel from what they've experienced during their time of service is lethal, and so is the damage we do to our own children through deliberate use of shame and condemnation.

http://www.speakforthem.org/facts.html

Warning signs:

  • Giving away prized possessions
  • Feelings of worthlessness or guilt
  • Change in eating habits and sleep patterns
  • Extreme personality changes
  • Aggressive, destructive, or defiant behavior
  • Neglect of personal appearance or hygiene
  • Increase in alcohol or drug consumption
  • Talking, writing or drawing about their own death
  • Withdrawing from family or friends

So yes, its definitely your right to strongly condemn your children if their inner nature turns out to be gay.  By condemning them, you won't change their inner nature in the slightest - but there will definitely be consequences, and they will end up paying the price for you exercising your choice to shame and condemn.  You probably won't like the outcome either.

As for being fruitful and mulitplying - really?  7 billion people isn't enough for you yet?  You're worried we might drop below 6 billion in 50 years, when the carrying capacity of earth w/o fossil fuels is maybe a billion so the helpful answer from that old guidebook is that we need to all stop using birth control, run out out and all have lots more children because our big worry is now a population decline?

Some stuff from the ancient guidebook applies to modern life.  Some does not.  We should exercise a bit of common sense and separate the one from the other.

My opinion, of course.

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davefairtex
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false flag cases

I see two cases presented.  Case 1: it never happened and the whole thing was completely staged (and nobody was actually killed).  Case 2: it was executed by the usual suspects in the neocon community for the usual collection of reasons.

Case 1 - completely staged - to me is simply not credible.  Simple math shows that the small gay community in this small southern town is so tightly inter-connected that everyone knows everyone.  Straight guy in one "infowars" interview spoke of his friend, a bartender, who actually saw the attack start, saw the man in front of him killed, and then was shot three times himself.  Its a small town, there were 100 killed and wounded, and many people in that town knows a victim either socially or personally.  No way this "didn't happen."   PCR is lost in a fog of his own creation. 

Case 2 - the neocon elements did it for reasons of their own.  This could be true.  If the shooter really was closeted and really did use those chat apps, then we should start to see some people come forward who have actually met up with him.  If we don't see that happen, then I'll be more inclined to believe in this version of events.  Shooter was 29, and this allegedly wasn't his first rodeo.  So to speak.  No way a real closeted guy uses dating apps and never meets anyone.  No way he goes to this bar and never meets anyone.  And no way this small community doesn't gossip about who met who and "didn't you meet up with him once?"  Especially after this community-changing event.

So if we don't get more contact stories of a more personal nature, I'll start to get suspicious.

Is this radical islam?  Regular Islam meeting an unbalanced, closeted gay man?  A neocon patsy?  A secret neocon assault team supporting a neocon patsy?  Lots of people died here.  It would be good to figure out what went down, if only for the sake of the victims of this crime.

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Orlando: Information that should be available is not

I have no specific information on whether the Orlando shooting incident happened as described, either.  I can tell however that information that should be readily available does not seem to be.

Reminds me of the "Russian invasion of Ukraine" (and here) which happened without photographic evidence of Russian military hardware in Ukraine.

Or the downing of the MH-17 where the black box is shipped to the Netherlands for analysis but disappears there without analysis.

Or the airplane that crashed into the pentagon, an area where it is reasonable to expect intensive video surveillance, but no identifiable photographs of an incoming plane are available.

For those who still live within the matrix, simply being told that something is true is probably enough.  For those of us who know that myths are created to guide public thinking, we need confirming evidence.

We make our own reality.

-Dick Cheney

 

Show me the body.

-Tommy Lee Jones in "The Fugitive" expressing an unwillingness to assume that Dr Kimble is dead after jumping from the dam until it is proven.

 

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Duplicate post

 

 

 

 

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KugsCheese
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Re: False Flag Cases

Case 3: The authorities are bumbling idiots and massage post event message to fit competency narrative.  

However, I am leaning on Case 2 and expand to TPTB not just Neocons.

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KugsCheese
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Ponder Orlando

How does Omar himself, a security guard, have the sniper skill to take down 50 persons with one gun with no one tackling him.  No one had mace?   No one could throw heavy objects at him or crack him on head with bat etc.   I guess we are to believe everyone just laid down to die.

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thc0655
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Run. Hide. Fight.

I've found people are amazingly passive about their own safety, and most people are like a deer in the headlights when they are surprised by a lethal threat to their lives. However, we should wait a while to hear if anyone did try to fight back.  It may be that there were a few, but that they were wounded or killed in the process.  That being said it would take no skill at all for someone with an AR-15 to kill 49 and wound 53 on a dance floor crowded with 300 people.  The bullets from that rifle could easily penetrate one victim and hit another (or two) so that it would not even require 102 shots fired to hit 102 people.  I would guess he had somewhere close to 70 shots that hit someone, and that some of those hit two or more people before stopping.  Then we have to worry about how many people were hit by police bullets...

I'm eagerly waiting for more detail on the actions of the off duty police officer who was working security for the club.  S/he apparently engaged the shooter very early on in the incident despite being outgunned by a mile (AR versus handgun).  Some have already criticized the officer for not dying or being wounded and suspect s/he was less than completely brave.  Then I want to hear the details about why the decision was taken not to storm the bathroom immediately where the shooter was barricaded.  There has been plenty of criticism of that too, but we lack the details.  Police doctrine since Columbine has been to engage active shooters as quickly as possible, but to contain and negotiate with gunmen who are barricaded inside somewhere.  I'm guessing the police initially treated the situation as an "active shooter" then changed tactics when he barricaded himself in the bathroom. But if he continued to shoot victims inside the bathroom that would've still been "active shooter."

Personally, I avoid crowds and I never depend on someone else for my safety, even if police are on duty for security.  If I can't carry my gun in a certain location, then I won't go there.  I may not survive an attack like this but I'm not going down without a fight.

Your family and friends might be willing to pay attention to this while Orlando is in the news:

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Mark_BC
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I think the entire thing was

I think the entire thing was staged. The witnesses were obviously crisis actors. This one has probably the worst acting out if all of them. I find it very difficult to believe that crisis actors would be sent to an actual scene of violence. Too much uncontrolled factors that could go wrong. Edit: if a single person had actually been shot then they wouldn't need crisis actors. Couple this with the complete lack if evidence for any dead bodies, just like all the other previous false flags, and it seems this is another sandy hook. 

What makes me want to puke is all the emotional and in depth discussion about race relations and Islam this is getting even outside the msm. How we should respond with love. We should not respond with love, we should respond with anger and string up our leaders by their fingernails. 

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Time2help
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Sigh

This collapsing Empire gig wears on a soul.

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Jim H
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Good advice from THC...

THC said,

Personally, I avoid crowds and I never depend on someone else for my safety, even if police are on duty for security.  If I can't carry my gun in a certain location, then I won't go there.  I may not survive an attack like this but I'm not going down without a fight.

If nothing else, this seems like good advice for anyone... don't spend too much time in, "gun free" zones.. because you aren't going to have any law abiding gun owners there to help you should TSHTF.  

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davefairtex
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thanks Tom

Thanks for your professional assessment.  I too want to hear about the off-duty cop.  Handgun vs assault rifle seems like he'd have to have been lucky to prevail.  While the "club range" is easy for the rifle, hitting a target with a pistol seems much more problematic.  Presumably he was also concerned with hitting patrons too, while the shooter clearly felt no such restriction.

I notice you aren't going off into "it never happened" and "they're all crisis actors" land with some of the other posters here.  Why is that?

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KugsCheese
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http://www.zerohedge.com/news

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-15/new-orlando-shooter-eyewitness-emergestestifies-5-people-were-involved-pulse-attack

How did the others get away?   How long did it take for other police to come and surround building?    

Mark_BC's picture
Mark_BC
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So what are we at now for

So what are we at now for phony events... Please feel free to add your own since I haven't investigated them all

  • Moon landings. Science proves they were a hoax. No dust on lander, no indication of a blast crater, despite official nasa transcripts describing thick dust clouds. 
  • 9/11. Real event (obviously) but inside job. 
  • Sandy hook. Actors caught going round and round in circles through building. No evidence of dead people. 
  • Colorado. Crisis actor forgets he has injury. Supposedly shot twice in the shoulder the day before but he's flailing his arm around in the interview without hesitation. Gunshot wounds look like mosquito bites
  • canadian parliament shooting. Shadow analysis proves it did not happen at the stated time. Way off. No blood underneath "victim" or on responder's white gloves despite multiple gunshots to back and out chest. 
  • Oregon umpqua college. Same deal. 
  • Orlando. Seems like another one. No evidence of dead bodies. 

I'm expecting the false flags to pick up towards the "election". 

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sand_puppy
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A pistol is very effective against a rifle in a small space

Just a few lowly 9 mm bullets fired from a small pistol can stop a semi-automatic wielding assailant.  And in the confines of a room, the range and maneuverability of a pistol may make it equal to or even superior to a rifle.

The situation would be very different in a gunfight outdoors ranging over 50 to a few hundred yards--the rifle is greatly superior over these ranges.  But over 20 feet, in a crowded room, it seems to me that a pistol would be a very effective tool.

Here is what I imagine and have read (Tom , please chime in here):  get out of sight behind cover, even lie on the floor behind someone who has already shot.  Look around.  Figure out what is going on.  When you identify the bad guys, put 3-5 rounds into them.  Then hide again and reload.  If there are more bad guys that you didn't notice at first, their attention will be drawn to you.  You need to be hidden at this point.  Crawl to a new location.  Keep watching for an opening to fire on the next one.

(Of course I have NOT been in many gunfights myself, so I certainly can't speak with great authority.)

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thc0655
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Considerations

Presumably he was also concerned with hitting patrons too, while the shooter clearly felt no such restriction.

A criminal/killer with a gun does have this big advantage over "good guys" with guns opposed to them.  They can just lay down a high volume of fire, not caring who they hit, but if there are innocents in the area the "good guy" has to try to take aimed shots which takes a lot longer (when you're being fired on 1/10ths of seconds can mean the difference between life and death).

I notice you aren't going off into "it never happened" and "they're all crisis actors" land with some of the other posters here.  Why is that?

Our lives resemble "The Matrix" more every day, but we're not actually in "The Matrix" yet.  I know: I took the red pill.  Real people were shot by a real bad guy.  It's too big, complicated and public for it to be anything else.  Now the possibility that information will be withheld from the public for a variety of nefarious reasons is quite high.  I also know the usual players reading from the same script we've been using for years will line up in the aftermath to attempt turn these events to their advantage.  

Handgun vs. AR-15.  If I was told I was going to be in a shoot out later today and offered my choice of weapons (assuming I couldn't just stay home!) I'd pick the AR-15 every time unless more information was provided.  For instance, one of the rare instances in which I'd prefer a handgun (or knife!) instead of my AR-15 would be if me and my opponent were going to be fighting to the death in a very small space, like the inside of a car. Don't laugh: it's happened to some unfortunate people.  The length of the rifle would be a severe disadvantage within arms reach of your opponent.

Just a few lowly 9 mm bullets fired from a small pistol can stop a semi-automatic wielding assailant.  And in the confines of a room, the range and maneuverability of a pistol may make it equal to or even superior to a rifle.

I would never allow myself to think of any handgun round short of .44 magnum as being an effective stopper.  I can tell you story after story of people being hit with handgun rounds (often multiple rounds) up to .45 ACP and not being impressed or even slowed down, much less physically stopped immediately from further fighting.  It's always safest to assume your handgun rounds are not going to have much immediate effect, and so you should plan on continuing to shoot and shoot and shoot until your opponent stops.  You may get "lucky" with your first shot or two, but don't count on it. Count on emptying your magazine and then reloading quickly (you do carry at least one spare magazine or speed loader, right?).  Most people who stop fighting after one or two shots in their direction give up psychologically, not because they're physically incapable of continuing.  (So if you're shot, don't ever give up.  Keep fighting!  You're probably not going to die, unless you give up.)  On that subject, most of the mass murderers we've seen in the US commit suicide or surrender as soon as they are confronted by anyone with a gun, police or civilian.  The Orlando shooter was a rare exception as he kept fighting until he was put down by SWAT.

Here is what I imagine and have read (Tom , please chime in here):  get out of sight behind cover, even lie on the floor behind someone who has already shot.  Look around.  Figure out what is going on.  When you identify the bad guys, put 3-5 rounds into them.  Then hide again and reload.  If there are more bad guys that you didn't notice at first, their attention will be drawn to you.  You need to be hidden at this point.  Crawl to a new location.  Keep watching for an opening to fire on the next one.

Think long and hard now what you will do and not do if this kind of thing happens to you.  There's no shame in escaping to safety if you can (unless you've taken an oath to defend innocents with your life - then there would be shame, and possibly prosecution).  If you start shooting at the bad guy you can expect return fire (unless you've got an unusually fine position of cover or concealment).  Are your loved ones standing next to you, clinging to you?  Do you want them exposed to gunfire?  Have you trained them to run away from you and escape if you draw your weapon?  How confident are you they'll actually do that and not cling to you out of instinct?  Maybe get them to safety then return, if you must.  Are you prepared to be sued for poor shooting or tactics, or even for no good reason at all?  And not just getting sued by the bad guy or his family, but some of the people you were protecting.  Are you prepared to be shot by the police in the chaos who thought you were the second shooter?  Are you prepared to be prosecuted by the District Attorney for some tiny imperfection in your actions or just because s/he doesn't like people with guns?  (Has it occurred to anyone claiming there were multiple shooters that, IF they were there, they might have been "good guys" illegally carrying in the bar shooting wildly at the bad guy and missing, then escaping and keeping the whole thing to themselves since they missed the bad buy and were committing a "crime?")

None of the mass murderers I've seen in the last 15 years in the US seems like the kind of hardened combat veterans who would not be negatively impacted by the stress of a shooting and a life and death experience.  You can expect them to lose most of their fine motor skills and whatever firearm accuracy they would normally have.  You can expect them to get tunnel vision and probably not see you on their flanks.  That and more degrades their abilities and gives you an advantage. But then you have to remember that most of us will be experiencing the same kinds of things and our abilities will be seriously degraded too.  Expect to be 50% less accurate with your shots than an average day at the range.  Excellent training, and experience in combat and in high danger, high adrenaline situations can make a big difference in improving your abilities to respond.  Avoid the latter two if you can, and go for the high quality training designed to help you function well under the stress of a gunfight.  The armed civilian will also have the advantage of surprise, at least until they start shooting.  Use it wisely and it may be enough to win the fight.

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