Daily Digest

Image by Mohmed Althani, Flickr Creative Commons

Daily Digest 9/17 - We've 'Learned Nothing' 10 Years After The Crash, Will Global Warming Sink the Netherlands?

Monday, September 17, 2018, 12:22 PM

Economy

Ten Years After the Crash, We’ve Learned Nothing (Paul D.)

It was even implied that the meltdown was due in part to irrational panic, “hysteria,” a fear of fear itself. When Lehman Brothers failed, the theory held, investors overreacted by freezing all lending, causing more disruptions and more losses. The economy was basically healthy, but fear had caused it to founder on a lack of confidence.

In Too Big to Fail, William Hurt plays Treasury Secretary Paulson as a saddened, wearied Atlas. He quips, early in the mess: “This is a confidence game,” and if Lehman Brothers failed, “all the other banks are gonna drop like dominoes.”

What Keeps Them Up At Night (thc0655)

This past week I was able to attend another lecture/discussion recalling the 2008 crisis and assessing our current financial situation. The panel consisted of three hedge fund managers. Two of them are multi-billionaires and the third a multi-millionaire. The multi-millionaire was the president of UBS in 2008 and was in the room on that fateful weekend when Paulson and Bernanke gathered the Wall Street CEOs to try and save Lehman. Self interest and old grudges from the LTCM bailout led to failure and Lehman’s bankruptcy on Monday.

Why are African leaders pushing for population growth? (Paul D.)

Tanzania and Uganda together have about twice the area of France, which has only 65 million people. They would, with a billion people, be about eight times more densely populated than France – and unlike France, the great majority of their people would still be poor. The long-term economic growth rate in both countries is about three per cent and their population growth rate is exactly the same, so most people stay poor.

‘Chlorine delivered’: Idlib militants ‘readying false flag attack’ in Syrian village – Russian MoD (blackeagle)

It comes as Washington has been building up its military presence in the region. In late August, the missile destroyer USS Ross was deployed to the Mediterranean, carrying 28 Tomahawk cruise missiles, while the USS The Sullivans was deployed to the Persian Gulf and a B-1B Lancer strategic bomber was moved to an air base in Qatar.

Statement on Visit to the USA, by Professor Philip Alston, United Nations Special Rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights (blackeagle)

I have seen and heard a lot over the past two weeks. I met with many people barely surviving on Skid Row in Los Angeles, I witnessed a San Francisco police officer telling a group of homeless people to move on but having no answer when asked where they could move to, I heard how thousands of poor people get minor infraction notices which seem to be intentionally designed to quickly explode into unpayable debt, incarceration, and the replenishment of municipal coffers, I saw sewage filled yards in states where governments don’t consider sanitation facilities to be their responsibility, I saw people who had lost all of their teeth because adult dental care is not covered by the vast majority of programs available to the very poor, I heard about soaring death rates and family and community destruction wrought by prescription and other drug addiction, and I met with people in the South of Puerto Rico living next to a mountain of completely unprotected coal ash which rains down upon them bringing illness, disability and death.

Ebola 2018: Cautious Optimism Is In Order (thc0655)

Contacts being tracked are down from 3,421 to only 1,751. But this is because of difficulties following the contacts due to the previously mentioned socio-political difficulties in that area. In other words, they can't travel to find them, so they're not following a crap-ton of people they would like to and ought to be following. That's still very concerning, and could allow this outbreak to blossom out of control again at any time.

Norway’s Offshore Oil Boom Is Back On (Michael S.)

Vår Energi AS—the company of the merger of private equity-backed Point Resources AS into Eni Norge AS, which is expected to complete by year-end—plans to invest more than US$8 billion over the next five years to bring projects on stream, revitalize older fields, and explore for new resources. The combined company’s production for this year is estimated at around 180,000 boepd from a portfolio of 17 producing oil and gas fields from the Barents Sea to the North Sea. By 2023, Vår Energi’s production is expected to reach 250,000 boepd, with a breakeven price of less than US$30 a barrel.

Call to conserve one-third of oceans, land to head off extinction crisis (Paul D.)

“Anything less will likely result in a major extinction crisis and jeopardies the health and well-being of future generations,” he writes.

Current levels of protection – 3.6% of the oceans and 14.7% of land – “do not even come close to required levels,” Baillie notes.

Michigan’s water crisis is rapidly extending beyond Flint (jdargis)

It’s more than just Flint. Now PFAS being found in the water across the state in places like Ann Arbor, where I’ve lived for six years, Kalamazoo, Alpena, Grand Rapids, Lansing, Detroit. I’m hearing the Detroit Public School system, they’ve had to shut off a lot of their drinking fountains, and those kids going back to school don’t have clean water to drink from their drinking fountains.

Hurricane Florence vs. Typhoon Mangkhut: The difference between the 2 major storms (Paul D.)

Robichaud explained that water is usually a greater threat than wind for tropical cyclones. “We always tell people ‘run from the water, hide from the wind,'” he said.

Hookworm, a disease of extreme poverty, is thriving in the US south. Why? (blackeagle)

The long-awaited findings, revealed by the Guardian for the first time, are a wake-up call for the world’s only superpower as it grapples with growing inequality. Donald Trump has promised to “Make America Great Again” and tackle the nation’s crumbling infrastructure, but he has said very little about enduring chronic poverty, particularly in the southern states.

Will Global Warming Sink the Netherlands? (thc0655)

There, twice in every twenty-four hours, the ocean’s vast tide sweeps in a flood over a large stretch of land and hides Nature’s everlasting controversy about whether this region belongs to the land or to the sea. There these wretched peoples occupy high ground, or manmade platforms constructed above the level of the highest tide they experience; they live in huts built on the site so chosen and are like sailors in ships when the waters cover the surrounding land, but when the tide has receded they are like shipwrecked victims. Around their huts they catch fish as they try to escape with the ebbing tide. It does not fall to their lot to keep herds and live on milk, like neighboring tribes, nor even to fight with wild animals, since all undergrowth has been pushed far back.

Gold & Silver

Click to read the PM Daily Market Commentary: 9/14/18

Provided daily by the Peak Prosperity Gold & Silver Group

Article suggestions for the Daily Digest can be sent to [email protected]. All suggestions are filtered by the Daily Digest team and preference is given to those that are in alignment with the message of the Crash Course and the "3 Es."

30 Comments

Matt Holbert's picture
Matt Holbert
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 3 2008
Posts: 132
Competing ideas in today's Daily Digest

In one article (Call to conserve...) you have someone who explicitly acknowledges that man impacts his environment. In another (Will Global Warming...) you have someone who absolutely does not believe that man impacts his environment. As for me, I think that Martin Armstrong is the idiot. (see his article for context) This is a case of a smart man -- for whatever reason -- refusing to consider the facts.

This brings up a question that a neighbor -- who believes that the earth is "beyond repair" -- asked me a day or two ago. Why do you care? Why do you not fly, why do you grow your own food, why do you live without a car/truck? I think that my answer is similar to one that may have been made by Lynn Margulis. It's an evolutionary thing. I'm embarassed that my species is so dumb as to not preserve itself. It goes without saying -- but I'll say it anyhow -- that this includes preserving the biodiversity that is necessary for all life.

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 3191
I agree

Armstrong is an idiot on this particular subject.  Dave Fairtex seems to like him for his economic perspective.  I have no opinion on that score.

For some perspective, I was listening to Neil Degrasse Tyson the other day.  He cited a survey that found that 15% of Americans still believe the earth is flat.  Recently I heard some political pundit opining that 25% of Americans have always been whacko.  This time around those 25% somehow gained the ascendancy and, with the help of the electoral college, elected a fellow whacko.  Idiocracy anyone?

I blame the deterioration of our education system.  It fails to adequately teach science and math at the primary and secondary level and has largely taken civics out of the system all together.  It shocks me how many people I run into who are functionally illiterate in math.  And, don't get me started on how our higher education system has completely abdicated its traditional role in passing on the basics of human culture through the liberal arts.  Our governments are merely a reflection of our citizenry.  Get a mirror folks.  Why are we letting our children be so poorly educated?  Is it because we the supposed adults in the room are so poorly educated?

Petey1's picture
Petey1
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 13 2012
Posts: 69
25 percent

I would say you are being kind with the 25 percent.  It is probably higher.  I would add lazy to your crazy!

ezlxq1949's picture
ezlxq1949
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 29 2009
Posts: 250
Professional meterologist & climate change

One of my acquaintances is a now-retired professional meteorologist, with many decades of experience to draw upon. He is quite satisfied that climate change is a fact — melting glaciers, rising sea levels, atmospheric instability, increased moisture-holding capacity of air as the air warms, etc — and despairs of the unwillingness of so many people to face up to the evidence.

ezlxq1949's picture
ezlxq1949
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 29 2009
Posts: 250
Cherry-picking the evidence

For example, in the comment stream on another website, a climate denier smugly presented us with some numbers (and the URL) from a data series on a Rutgers University website. It showed that snowpack depth in parts of the US has been increasing over time. Take that!

OK, I thought, let's do some checking. I went to the same website database and found a companion data series which showed that the snowpack duration has been decreasing over the same period.

I am sure we could play whack-a-mole like this for quite a long time if we had a mind to.

ezlxq1949's picture
ezlxq1949
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 29 2009
Posts: 250
Why do leaders push for population growth?

Not just in Africa: Australian politicians too suffer under the delusion that prosperity is a direct function of population size. I am a member of an NGO by the name of Sustainable Population Australia (SPA). The monthly newsletter arrived yesterday. Here is an excerpt:

I was talking with our NSW Branch President, Graham Wood, who was expressing despair about a friend of his who was totally dismissive of the concerns that SPA has about the sort of future we face if governments around the world do not address the population issue. He read out to me what he had written in the small hours of the morning in response to that uninformed and dismissive attitude, and he has agreed to share it with you.

‘When someone discards the rigor of following the Scientific Process because “it’s not necessary” or “the cause - effect is obvious” we need to ask them:
Does the right hand side of your brain hold on so dearly to your narratives and deeply held beliefs that it won’t risk allowing the left hand side of your brain to methodically validate or disprove your beliefs, which either commits you to a lifetime of cognitive dissonance or to lose an erroneous but precious and conveniently held belief?’

I’m always listening for new ways to express a SPA perspective, or simply for a telling way to cut through some of the arguments. So here are a couple of recent examples.

The former Commonwealth Environmental Water Holder, David Papps, in an interview on ‘AM’ described the Nationals Leader and Deputy Prime Minister McCormack, as ‘scientifically illiterate’. Ouch! It’s a term we can co-opt to use in relation to the failure of our leaders to factually engage on population numbers.

And the secretary of the SA-NT Branch, Michael Lardelli, has submitted a letter to the Adelaide Advertiser asking despairingly ‘Should politicians be forced to sit a maths test before they can stand for election?’

— Sandra Kanck, National President

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Online)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1980
Attack in Syria Tonight

Reported on ZH:

Aircraft and missile attacks are reported in Syria from several sources and with multiple targets.

A Russian transport aircraft is missing, presumed down.

The US denies it participated in the attack.

Russian S-400 missile defense were active.

Some concern that some of the missiles were fired from a French frigate in the Mediterranean.

Russian MOD reports there were 4 Israeli F-16 bombing in Syria at the time the Russian transport went down.

British-Syrian journalist Danny Makki, currently reporting from the ground, says the attack "lasted for a total of 1 hour 30 minutes" and missiles soared over four cities including Latakia, Tartus, Homs and Hama — with rockets and explosions lighting up the sky especially over the coastal towns. 

Though it appears another Israeli strike - as it came less than two days following an attack near Damascus - the details are still unknown, and some observers are speculating it could be an American attack, given that at least some of the missiles were fired from the sea.

-----

Syrian port city Latakia 'attacked by missiles from sea' – local media (VIDEOS)

https://www.rt.com/news/438665-missile-attack-latakia-syria/

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/powerful-explosion-after-missile-hits-latakia-city-video/

https://twitter.com/QalaatAlMudiq/status/1041791969096331266

https://twitter.com/Dannymakkisyria/status/1041793849843171328

https://twitter.com/BeirutSuburbs/status/1041786531655110666

https://twitter.com/Lastkombo/status/1041812260581195778

 
saxplayer00o1's picture
saxplayer00o1
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 30 2009
Posts: 4207
S&P: Growing pension costs to force cities to raise taxes, cut s

S&P: Growing pension costs to force cities to raise taxes, cut services

KPVI News 6-9 hours ago
Growing pension costs could even make it more difficult for cities to come up with ... cover rising pension costs,” Nees said, adding that Chicago still benefits from ...

 

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Online)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1980
RT: Russian's Registered Missile Launches from French Ship
Russian airspace control systems have registered missile launches from a French frigate in the Mediterranean on Monday, the Russian Defense Ministry reported.

The French Navy’s newest frigate, FS Auvergne, fired rockets around 8pm GMT Monday, the Russian military said. “Airspace control has recorded rocket launches from the French frigate Auvergne,” the ministry’s statement read. The Auvergne is deployed in the Mediterranean Sea, off the coast of Syria.

The launch was detected around the same time as air traffic controllers at the Khmeimim Air Base “lost contact” with a military Il-20 aircraft during an attack of Israeli F-16 fighters on Latakia. Fourteen people were on board the plane at the time of the disappearance. A search and rescue mission is underway.

The IDF has refused to comment on the report. Despite the fact that Israel rarely acknowledges striking specific targets inside Syria, earlier this month the IDF admitted to hitting at least 202 “Iranian targets” in the country.

 

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 7 2007
Posts: 5827
On Syria, Isreal Needs to Be Charged

Since Israel has no legal standing to attack Syria, that was another illegal attack.

While international law is a sometimes different beast, in local law, under the moral codes developed to keep society civil and orderly, in the commission of a felony, if someone is killed, accidentally or not, the person(s) committing the crime are up for felony murder.

If you are robbing a store and policeman shoots their partner and kills them accidentally, you are the one charged with felony murder.

Israel is 100% responsible for the murder of the Russians...as is the US as an accomplice.

Maybe the French too.  

At any rate, Israel is once again doing everything it can to ignite WW III.  I have no interest in that.  Therefore I strongly oppose Israel's policies at this time.  If they want to go ahead and pick a big fight, I believe they should be allowed to do that, but on their own and without any explicit or implicit backing of the US (my country).  

Again, I have zero interest in figuring out how to survive a completely avoidable and totally unnecessary nuclear exchange.

If Israel could figure out a way to live diplomatically with its neighbors that would be a great long-term solution and if I lived there I would be working strongly towards that end.  Otherwise the math and their tactics are working against their stated interests.  Eventually the oil and gas run out, and then what? 

Either Israel is living peaceably with its neighbors when that time arrives or it is badly outnumbered and surrounded by a sea of hostility.  It's not that hard to work out strategically.  One approach has a chance, the other has none. 

Neocons and Likuds are not at all interested in peace, the people, or the future.  To them there is only "right now" and their own pedestrian quest for personal power.  

Not sure why they have not been flushed from power yet, but that's the state of things right now.

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Online)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1980
MSM fails to mention attack in Syria, downed Russian plane

From reading the Yahoo and Drudge report newsfeed you would NEVER know that an hour and a half missile/bombing attack was conducted in Syria last night, that a Russian plane was downed, that Israel was (probably) responsible or that the French fired missiles into Syria from a frigate in the Med.

This is simply not mentioned.

However, we do find other juicy tidbits that are very important to know about:

  • Woody Allens wife breaks silence and defends husband.  Ronan Farrow may not be his son?
  • Police Officer hailed as hero as suspect yells the N word at least 50 times.
  • Asia Argento threatens to sue Rose McGown for saying that she slept with underage Jimmy Bennett.
  • You would never guess what Tiger Woods wife looks like now!
Markhemp's picture
Markhemp
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 29 2013
Posts: 20
Yinnon plan for a greater israel

Is being carried out by USA to the letter! it doesn't matter if this is detrimental to America, why can't you guys see what is happening in the World, your country got hacked.

Syria then Iran maybe together or maybe we all die.

prof Anthony C Sutton had access to government and corporate records back in the day, he became persona non grata when he started writing and talking about his findings. He died back in 2002 you can download his books for free or listen on YouTube 

thanks again Chris aand Adam

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 3191
oops

Looks like Israel may not be the bad guy afterall.  Even St. Putin admits it was friendly fire.

https://start.toshiba.com/news/read/article/afp-syria_downs_russian_plan...

Maybe the msm had good reason not to spread this CT.

davefairtex's picture
davefairtex
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 3 2008
Posts: 5585
stopped clocks

Doug-

Maybe the msm had good reason not to spread this CT.

Even a stopped clock is right every 12 hours.  As they say.  Ignore enough CTs and pretty soon you'll get one right.

Let's see.  Bomber gap.  Missile gap.  WMD in Iraq.  Babies in Incubators.  Tonkin Gulf.  All conspiracy theories, all later proven true.  And those are just the big ones.  I haven't even gone into the raft of CNN "Russia collusion bombshells" that later turned out to be just wrong.

Plenty of the stuff they report is wrong, and they stuff they don't report on - can be world-ending.  Or simply destructive of the health and welfare of all Americans - but to the benefit of their corporate sponsors.  I mean, I know why they do it, what I don't know is, why anyone believes them.

If MSM have no credibility with Thinking Americans, its just because that particular group of us happens to have a functioning memory.

An old boss of mine once explained - when I asked him why sales people were such idiots (ok, I was a crank even in my early days) - "in engineering, memory is an asset.  In sales, its a liability."  [Yes, yes, I know, without sales, none of us would have jobs, they are key people in every organization.  I was just annoyed that they'd always sell products we hadn't built yet - and might not ever be able to build, in spite of the many reminders from engineering not to do this.]

 

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 7 2007
Posts: 5827
Not an oops. You've misunderstood.
Doug wrote:

Looks like Israel may not be the bad guy afterall.  Even St. Putin admits it was friendly fire.

https://start.toshiba.com/news/read/article/afp-syria_downs_russian_plan...

Maybe the msm had good reason not to spread this CT.

Doug,

if you insist on putting in digs you will lose your welcome here.  I let the last batch of sub-par behavior from you slide, but my patience is not unlimited.

"St Putin"?  Who is that a dig at, precisely?  Please be honest and do not try to dodge what you are really trying to say here.  No changing the subject or deflecting.  

Second,  you've displayed a poor command of both the facts and the news.  Russia's charge isn't a very difficult concept, much like free-fall.

Russia's defence ministry said that Israeli F-16 pilots were using its Ilyushin Il-20 turbo-prop aircraft signal as cover while carrying out strikes against targets in Latakia province and put it in the line of fire from Syrian missiles.

The aircraft was hit 22 miles off Latakia’s coast in the eastern Mediterranean on Monday evening as it was returning to a Russian airbase nearby.

(Source - UK Telegraph)

Step 1: Israel, a highly competent military country, flew its attacking planes over the Mediterranean knowing that the Russian plane was in the attack corridor

Step 2: The much slower moving and larger, more radar obvious Russian plane was hit as defensive missiles were launched against the hostile invaders.

Not very hard to follow.

It was a purposeful maneuver by Israel that ended in the deaths of some 15 Russians.  That's the claim being made by Russia and it's a credible calim by anybody who understand military competencies and tactics.  

If Russia did a similar maneuver and it ended in the deaths of 15 Americans I suspect that a very different tune would be sung by the war apologists here in the US and Israel?

At any rate Doug, time to explain yourself as petty digs and jabs are not a welcome style here. Who were you referring to?  The entire site?  Specific persons?

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 3191
Wait,

you think the msm just ignored this CT?  I would suggest that if they even heard of it, they had the facts in hand and knew the CT was BS, as most are.

You suggested some supposed CTs that the msm "ignored."  I would dispute some of them, but you conveniently ignored many others that were clearly wrong at the time and were not perpetuated by the msm for good reasons.  F'rinstance, Sandy Hook, the Orlando night club shooting, MH17 shootdown, Obama born in Kenya and is a secret Muslim, the moon landing was faked, the Holocaust didn't happen, chemtrails, numerous supposed "false flag" operations, HIV/AIDS invented by the CIA, numerous supposed ills caused by fluordiation of the water or global warming is a Chinese hoax.  There are many more that you can find with a little googling that have been soundly refuted that you can also find with a little more googling.

So, in the final analysis, the msm gets it right far more often that ZH, Breitbart, Alex Jones or, for that matter, Trump.

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 3191
Chris

I posted my last before I saw your last post.

As far as who I specifically referred to, you know as well as I that some members of this site have promoted many of these CTs.  We have a long history of differences on 9/11, but completely ignoring that, you and others on this site rarely respond to or refute the truly outrageous examples like Sandy Hook.  I consider that an abdication of your responsibility as manager/owner of this site.  Your credibility slips every time you let those examples slip through without response.  That's why I respond to them.  No one else does.

So, do you maintain that Israel shot down the Russian plane even though Putin denies it?

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 7 2007
Posts: 5827
No good Doug
Doug wrote:

So, do you maintain that Israel shot down the Russian plane even though Putin denies it?

Okay, now you're just trolling again.  I mean you have to be, nobody with your apparent intelligence can be that poor/sloppy of  a reader, right?

I asked for specifics and for you to not change the/divert the subject.  You gave no specifics and changed and diverted the subject off of "St Putin" to Sandy Hook, for some absolutely unknown reason.

Second, I posted exactly what happened to the Russian plane and provided a link and copied text.  You ignored all of that and went with some bizarre, unfounded, and completely weird assertion that I did not make nor has been made.

I think it's time for you to find another site to inhabit.  We require civility and at least a minimum attention to detail to participate here.  This one gives you no joy and a lot of trouble, it appears, so I'm at a loss for why you would continue to insist on participating.  It's a big internet out there...you can find plenty of places that will only continue to reinforce your pre-existing belief structures.

I wish you all the best in finding them.

 

 

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Online)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1980
Russia blames Israel, then downgrades criticism....;

Russia blames Israel for the shooting down of her EW aircraft 

It is pretty clear what took place yesterday night.  Even if you don’t read Russian, the following chart released by the Russian Ministry of Defense says it all:

Basically, 4 Israeli aircraft were sent on a bombing mission against targets near the Russian facilities in Khmeimim and Tartus (which, by itself, is both stupid and irresponsible).  The Israelis *deliberately* did not warn the Russians until less than a minute before the attack took place, thus the Russians did not have the time to tell the crew of the Il-20 electronic warfare aircraft, which was on approach for a landing, to take evasive action.  When the Syrian S-200 fired their missiles to intercept the incoming missiles, the Israelis F-16 used the Il-20, which has a much bigger radar cross section, to hide themselves resulting in the loss of 15 lives and one aircraft.

Typical Israeli “cleverness”.

The Russian MoD placed the full blame on the Israelis and declared that this attack was “dastardly”, the Israeli actions as “hostile” and said that Russia “reserves the right” to respond with “adequate counter-actions”.

This is one of these rare opportunities when there is, I believe, a viable and logical option to respond: tell the Israelis that from now on any of their aircraft approaching anywhere near the Russian forces will be shot down.

Will the Russians do that?

I doubt it.  Why?  Because of the very powerful pro-Zionist 5th column in Russia.

I am pretty sure that the Russian military would love to take such an measure but, unfortunately, they are limited in their actions by the 5th columnists in the Russian government.

We shall see.  If Russia does nothing, it will be interesting to see how those who deny the existence of a pro-Zionist 5th column in Russia will explain this.

The Saker

PS: the only positive effect from this tragedy is that this will go a long way to trash the image of Israel in the Russian public opinion (which is constantly subjected to pro-Zionist propaganda in much of the Russian media).

UPDATE1: there we go: Putin is already “downgrading” the gravity of what happened.  He has just declared that “the Israeli jet didn’t down our aircraft” and spoke of “tragic circumstances“.  True, he did add that the Russians will take measures that “everyone will notice” but I am personally dubious about these “steps”.  I hope that I am wrong.  We will find out soon.

UPDATE2: I am watching the Russian media and I have to report that Zionist propagandists (Russian liberals and Jewish commentators) look absolutely *terrible*: they are desperately trying to blame everybody (the Syrians, Hezbollah, and even the Russians) except for Israel.  This will not sit well with the Russian public.

 

davefairtex's picture
davefairtex
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 3 2008
Posts: 5585
doug and CTs

Well first of all I think it is true that "some on this site" in the past have accepted uncritically the Russian line on a number of things where the facts were demonstrably otherwise.  I could go back and dig such things up, but I do recall objecting at the time.  Ultimately, I think St Putin is just about as appropriate as St Obama, who has managed to attain Democratic Party Sainthood after bailing out all the bankers, giving away trillions to the sickcare industry, not prosecuting anyone from the 2008 crisis (who also happen to be his big donors), drone-assassinating thousands, destroying two countries for no particular reason which led directly to the migrant/refugee crisis that's about to destroy the Eurozone, and of course globalizing all those "deplorables" jobs.  Since I use the phrase St Obama from time to time, I don't mind giving Doug a pass on St Putin.

Ok, that said - Doug.  Some really outrageous CTs have turned out to be true.  The media has got it wrong so consistently on some very big issues of war & peace that a reasonable man would think twice about taking their side in pretty much any factual matter.   Get your hand burned several dozen times, and - why on earth would that reasonable man stick his hand on the burner yet one more time?  "Just in case they are right this time?"  That's called "triumph of hope over experience."

How the media can go from giggling at UFO reports for 50 years, to soberly reporting US air force cockpit footage of - UFOs - without even an acknowledgement of 50 years of said giggling - well let's just say it thoroughly reinforces everything I read in Orwell's 1984.  The public's ability to "take in stride" 5 decades of being systematically lied to, only to turn on a dime in 30 minutes and to pretend that the 5 decades of lying never happened, is quite simply remarkable.

And I hate to break it to you, but you are absolute liviing proof of this phenenomon in action.  I suspect that has something to do with the Backfire effect.  Challenging the MSM, to you, is as if I were threatening your life.  Which of course I'm not, far from it, but that's how your brain interprets what I say.

Really, they've done it to themselves, in much the same way that Nixon and the DoD did it to themselves in Vietnam.  Lie often enough, and a good chunk of society just stops believing what you have to say.  That's how McGovern got nominated in 1972.  Read that platform sometime.  Its just crazy talk, but it can all be traced back to Nixon's lies.

I no longer rely on "the media" as my oracle for anything.  I mean really, ever.  So while I may not personally subscribe to a "Sandy Hook" CT, I'm certainly not stupid enough to take the media's side, only to have egg on my face 5 years hence when it turns out the whole thing really was an operation of some sort.

I mean - really.  2 planes, 3 buildings.  That particular story is looking awfully thin.

I think we should have a Godwin's law here at PP, but instead of Hitler, it is invoked when people drag up 9/11 in a discussion.  Like I just did.  :)  "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving 9/11 approaches 1.

 

Time2help's picture
Time2help
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 9 2011
Posts: 2861
Democracy

If it's up for a vote, I'd say boot his ass.

Michael_Rudmin's picture
Michael_Rudmin
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 25 2014
Posts: 900
I don't think it should be up for a vote

On several counts:

First, this is Chris' website. If he is wise he will listen to opinions, but this isn't a democracy; and democracies of our size are unstable due to not having sufficient numbers. Call him, rather, a judge: he has to weight opinions according to nothing more than his judgement.

Second, because as Chris points out, there are many other "peak-prosperity" sites and forums out there (not dozens, but I'll bet you can find five), and so we don't need to vote whether to boot a particular member. In fact, our so voting interferes with our own comeraderie.

Third, because it is indeed clear that doug was attacking Chris, though unwilling to say the final meme "j'accuse".Now, if Chris were helpless, maybe we should stand up for him; but he isn't. In fact, it appears that Doug thinks he can run a better website; and ... well, he can't. I can say that because if he could he would be running it. It just wouldn't be this one. He has the personality to think he can, and the personality to want to be in charge, and even the personality to -- if assigned the job--do a moderately good job for a moderately long time before everything implodes due to his lack of wisdom and pride. But what Chris did here is to make a website with skills and personality that create and build slowly. There's no comparison.

Now, that said, the only opinion I will mention is that some people have held to the proverb "it is wise to hold your friends close and your enemies closer". Whether it applies here, who can say?

Chris, do whatever you think best,

acesovereggs's picture
acesovereggs
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 22 2018
Posts: 15
Godwin's law

Since you brought it up I will relate a story I found amusing in an ironic way. 

I was talking to a friend of mine and he said that as a young redneck boy he liked to watch things go BOOM.  Specifically, he watched tons of videos involving fires, explosions, and demolitions. 

Fast forward to when he was a teenager.  He happened to be sitting in a jail cell (not sure for what, he was on the wild side as a youth), and they wheeled in a tv so he and his jailmates could see what happened.  He said at first he thought it was a joke.  Then he thought to himself how 'good' of a job had been done (in the sense of the expertise involved).  Then he tried to explain to his jailmates that, you know, that was a steel building.  Apparently he was known as the 'crazy' one even back then, so he was left to his own thoughts which involved alot of 'we are screwed'. 

HughK's picture
HughK
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 6 2012
Posts: 763
on moderation at PP

Hi Chris and all,

Consistent moderation is much more difficult when the moderator is also a party in the disagreement.  There is evidence, Chris, that you tend to invoke the forum guidelines more often when the person you are moderating disagrees with you on some political or economic issue.  I can provide examples of that if you would like.

This is quite important for a website with the mission statement of "creating a world worth inheriting," because here at PP our interactions are a small microcosm of the larger society.

The political discussions and inconsistent moderation sometimes overshadow your genius abilities as a teacher of the three E's and practical ways to respond to these problems/predicaments.

A specific example of how unconstructive political discussions manifest themselves at PP - to very little benefit - is the difference between how you handled climate change and 9/11 for many years - although more recently this has since changed somewhat.

For several years, you argued that climate change was one of the topics that should be off limits at PP in order to reduce the divisive arguments that discussions of global warming provoked.  At the time, I thought this was an odd decision because the evidence for anthropogenic climate change is quite strong and it is perhaps the keystone issue in the third E - Environment, since major extinction events in paleoclimate data have almost always coincided with major shifts in the Earth's climate.  In other words, it seemed to be an issue too central to your three E's to keep off limits. 

But, you made the very good point that most of our resilient responses - such as local food production, reducing consumption, investing in the local community, renewable energy investment -  would reduce climate forcings as well as help us become resilient in other ways, so it was a moot point as to whether we believed in climate change or not.  Essentially, you argued that it was impractical to poke at people's belief systems about this issue because you wanted a wide demographic to be able to hear the message of the instability of the three E's and how we could respond practically.  This  type of pragmatism is one of the best sides of the American tradition and it seemed like a pretty good, and constructive, argument to me.

(More recently, your own stance on global warming seems to have changed somewhat and along with that, its prevalence as a discussion topic on the site has also changed.)

However, at the same time, there were several discussions of different views of 9/11 on the site, and you engaged in them actively.  No matter what one believes about 9/11, it is certainly an issue that creates a lot of tension and pokes very deeply at people's belief systems.  Also, practical responses to the instability of the three E's would really not differ meaningfully whether or not 9/11 was done by this group or by that group.  By your own logic, as elucidated in your earlier handling of climate change at the site, this was not going to be a discussion topic that would attract large numbers of people to ChrisMartenson.com/PeakProsperity.  Indeed, there is a record of this topic driving several people interested in resilience away from the site.

I find discussions of national politics interesting but progressively unproductive both here and other place precisely because national politics/government is a system in crisis that does not seem to respond to reason or logic.  Over the years, almost all of the people that you have booted from the forums have been booted due to disagreements about politics and not about your core message, the three Es.

I realize that the regulars who are still around enjoy talking about politics and there are often very many interesting points made, some of which I have never considered.  But these discussions also produce a lot of division and enmity here.

Also, the principle of leaving divisive issues of national politics to the side is very practical in the real world, as whether my neighbor is a deep red Trump supporter or a PC social justice warrior is irrelevant if we can share a compost pile or trade tips on installing solar panels or digging a French drain.  In other words, your appeal in the context of climate change to bypass topics that sow discord in order to focus on constructive action really does help to create a world worth inheriting!  This unifying pragmatism takes PP in the direction of its mission.

I am not advocating censorship or anything like that.  Of course, people should write about what they want to write about.  I am simply applying your own logic of practical limitations to discussion topics as you laid these out in your justification for keeping AGW in the dungeon for the site's early years.

Your incredible talent as a teacher is overshadowed by the many political disagreements at PP, and while I still recommend the Crash Course to people that I meet in various contexts, I have to warn them not to get distracted by the acrimounious and distracting political beefs.

Doug has been a member of this site for around a decade, if I am not mistaken.  As a mainstream liberal in many ways* he represents an important American demographic that could benefit from your message of the three E's and resilient responses.  While some regulars have vociferously disagreed with Doug for years, he and pretty much everyone else here agree on the core messages of PP.

*Doug is pro-gun rights and, like many of the rest of us here and unlike most mainstream liberals, is a collapsitarian and a gardener - not trying to pigeonhole you completely here, Doug. :)

Until PP changes its mission statement to "clearing up mainstream media lies and unmasking the man behind the curtain," then many of the geopolitical discussions here are mostly a distraction from PP's self-declared purpose.

How you moderate has a significant impact on whether or not you attract different demographics to the website or repel them. 

When it comes to creating world worth inheriting, what discussions are worth engaging in - and aggressively moderating - and what discussions are worth leaving by the wayside in order to focus on the central message?

-Hugh

HughK's picture
HughK
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 6 2012
Posts: 763
on moderation at PP

double post

acesovereggs's picture
acesovereggs
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 22 2018
Posts: 15
Not political

For me personally, 9/11 wasn't/isn't a political event/topic as much as it is/was an indictment of the MSM. 

It is hard to say where on the journey to awakeness I would be (perhaps nowhere?) if the MSM response was not as it was.  It serves as a 'bridge' of understanding of topics that when first encountered may seem unbelievable.  I.e. When confronted with evidence completely counter to what has been explained in the MSM, it is 'easier' to believe it if you have come to an understanding within yourself that the MSM obfuscates the truth.  

"Clearing up MSM lies and unmasking the man behind the curtain" may not be an official mission statement but it is all tied up in many of the subjects here.  E.g. the economics of shale oil, how money is created; are presented very differently in the MSM than they are on PP. 

mmm357's picture
mmm357
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 17 2012
Posts: 6
Dissent has value

Critical thinking is often discussed here. It is obviously a necessary tool for understanding the 3 E's, but more broadly it is a basic life skill we need to navigate the world. x1000 for a collapsing world.

However, it's not easy - we are all human and we gravitate to comfort (at least I certainly do), to include intellectual comfort. That's why it's so easy to inhabit the left/right paradigm or whatever niche - doughnuts for the mind.

Dissenting voices here are valuable to me because it forces me to think about what is being said - if we all say the same thing, I can go to sleep mentally and just reinforce my existing beliefs without any effort, and then I might as well be on MSM. 

The downside is that it is inefficient, can be tedious to wade through, and is sometimes just downright frustrating. 

Moderating is a balancing act, and I don't envy the job. But dissenting voices require me to work harder so I don't fall for poor reasoning. That's good for me - I suppose it's analogous to resistance weight training. 

HughK's post above is a great example. He challenged Chris directly while adding materially to the discussion. But I maintain that the challenge in and of itself is the primary value.

I don't think Doug is so disruptive to the discussions on this site to deserve getting booted. We can all chose to ignore posts that don't warrant comment.

Don't protect me from dissent. (provided the inefficiency/tedium/frustration remain at non-critical levels)

Just my .02

davefairtex's picture
davefairtex
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 3 2008
Posts: 5585
a good foil

Personally, Doug has helped me refine my thinking on media and the establishment.  It was through debates with him that I realized that every single war the US has been in since Korea was started through fraud.  How did I not learn this in school?  I sure took enough history.

The information isn't really even that hard to find.  No FOIA requests - well, someone else did them already - no investigative reporting, just a simple review of the public record.  Its really as if, "nobody cares."  The public has been injected with emotional novacaine and just shrugs.  "No WMD in Iraq? A trillion dollars down the tubes?  Hundreds of thousands killed, upheaval in the region for decades, making space for ISIS?  Oh well."

The really amusing thing is, the more he posts on how we shouldn't believe in CTs, and the more he basically ignores all those CTs that turned out to be entirely, 100% correct, the more certain I am that we're onto something here.  If they routinely and serially lie about serious things like war and peace...how can we trust anything they say?

I feel like I've been through my own personal Vietnam & Watergate, coming out the other side with a bunch of changed beliefs.

Meanwhile, Doug has also been an awesome example of the backfire effect in action.  Take a smart experienced guy, present him with incontrovertible evidence that people inside his blessed government have concocted stories, spread through the media, to get us into war after war after war - and I mean this evidence is just dead-bang stuff, and the stakes are life & death, and trillions of dollars - and how does he react?

He pretends it doesn't exist!  How perfect is that?  If evidence had changed his mind, that would have been way too easy.  And boring.  Instead, we have our own perfect example as to why CNN still has viewers, and why people still believe what is written in the New York Times, even though it has been basically a mouthpiece of the deep state for decades.

Which I really didn't realize until I went through it in detail - with Doug!

You just never know what effect you have on someone...sometimes it isn't exactly what you intended...I'm sure all my squawking has just served to cement his belief in the mainstream media...

Life is funny that way.  :)

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Online)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1980
I value Chris' understanding of world events

I am very, very happy to have Chris share his opinions on what he feels really matters.  Pretty much, it matches what I feel really matters.  How did the Orange Revolution in the Ukraine really work?  Is that McCain and Nuland in the Ukraine meeting with the pro-western neo-nazis?   Are those really Chechen mercenaries posing as "rebels" in Syria?  How is ISIS getting US weapons?   His deep analysis is very, very valuable and very acurate in my opinion.

How can we understand "scientists" who do not see any human impact on global climate change without understanding the the Koch Brothers fund many (marketing) groups promoting this viewpoint.  (here and here).  Or is that "politics" and "off limits?"  Maybe we should just talk about gardening?

Chris is not an univolved moderator of our discussions, but is the owner of the website, and the principle analyst and primary writer.  If someone doesn't like what he says, I'm sorry, but this is his website.  Please start your own website and speak your mind in exactly your own way there.

Controlling the Discourse

There are many techniqes that can be used to silence speech that one doesn't like.  Intelligent and verbally skilled individuals use many of them.

A favorite one is "don't be devisive."  So you say "A is true" and I say "A is not true," but I follow-on with "don't be devisive, we all need to agree and get along."  So lets talk only about "B" and you should not mention "A" in the future.  For unity.

Another is implied superiority:  "I am disappointed in your analysis and expected more from you."

Another is bigotry:  "Only a bigot would think that.  I call upon the moderators to silence you...."

Patriotism.  "How can you be so un-American and say those things?"

Respect for the dead.  "Alex Jones doesn't believe that there were actual children killed at Sandy Hook which is disrespectful of the dead.  The issue is NOT whether he is correct or not correct.  It is that he is disrespectful of the dead and must not be allowed to speak."

We must watch for clever rhetorical mechanisms used to shut down unwanted discussion topics.

 

 

Mohammed Mast's picture
Mohammed Mast
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: May 17 2017
Posts: 196
The Medium is the Message

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments