Daily Digest

Image by Dan Zen, Flickr Creative Commons

Daily Digest 4/28 - Terrorism Vs. Natural Disasters, Learning To Speak Shrub

Saturday, April 28, 2018, 11:41 AM

Economy

The Golden State Killer Is Tracked Through a Thicket of DNA, and Experts Shudder (jdargis)

23andMe has more than 5 million customers, and Ancestry.com has 10 million. But the DNA in databases like these are relevant to tens of millions of others — sisters, parents, children. A lot can be learned about a family simply by accessing one member’s DNA.

“Suppose you are worried about genetic privacy,” Ms. Murphy said. “If your sibling or parent or child engaged in this activity online, they are compromising your family for generations.”

The cost of raising a child in America has soared — it’s a price tag fit for a prince (Adam)

The average cost of giving birth in the U.S. varies between $5,000 to $10,000, based on estimates from TIME magazine and nonprofit FAIR Health. Data is based on claims estimates from 2016 and 2017 and exclude the price of caring for a newborn.

Terrorism Vs. Natural Disasters: Which Costs More? Which Kills More? (blackeagle)

The thought of protecting against natural disasters sounds crazy but it’s rooted in sound science. Buildings can be engineered to absorb and safely redirect the force generated by extreme weather events like earthquakes, fires, and hurricanes. Governments can invest money in better forecasting tools. They can also invest in better awareness and training for citizens who live in areas prone to natural disasters.

Chris Hedges: What we can learn from the collapse of the Chaco Canyon civilisation (PaulJam)

A few thousand priests and ruling elites, along their retainers and administrators, lived in the Great Houses or palaces. They oversaw the trade routes that stretched to the California coast and into Central America. They maintained the elaborate network of lighthouses whose signal fires provided rapid communication. They built the roads, the long flights of stairs carved into the rock formations, the bridges, the wooden ladders to scale the towering cliffs, and the astronomical observatories that meticulously charted the solar observations to determine the equinoxes and solstices for planting and harvesting and for the annual religious festivals when thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, would gather. The buildings in the complexes were oriented to solstitial or cardinal points, a difference the anthropologist Stephen H. Lekson believes denoted not only competing cosmologies but competing political ideologies.

Pipeline shortage could choke North America’s oil supply with ‘serious implications for global markets’, IEA warns (Uncletommy)

“During 2018-19, West Texas and West Canada are likely to face shortages in midstream capacity brought about by a rapid production increase,” the IEA said. “The situation will be much more severe in Canada than West Texas as legal delays mean capacity is unlikely to increase before the end of 2019.”

Trump Strikes A Blow For Retirees Worried About Enviros Wallowing Out Pensions (thc0655)

A study from Arizona State University conducted in 2016, for instance, found that managing divestments cost endowment funds at universities as much as $7.4 billion in value over a 20-year period. Transactional costs associated with purging pensions of oil assets contribute to the overall expense of delving into political posturing on the environment, both reports note.

Tabasco Sauce Is in a Battle For Its Very Survival (tmn)

Even though it’s only 152 feet above sea level at its peak, Avery Island is one the highest points in the Gulf Coast. A two hour drive west of New Orleans, it sits atop an enormous salt dome that bulges from the earth, elevating the land above the swamps and bayous that surround it. A generation ago, it was unthinkable that this natural fortress could be overcome by water. But Hurricane Rita’s threatening surges were a symptom of an immense shift in the Gulf Coast, the result of decades of harsh land use practices and climate change.

Learning to Speak Shrub (tmn)

Plants speak in chemical codes—carbon-containing molecules called volatile organic compounds (VOCs). Characterized by the ease with which they enter the air, VOCs are a diverse group: plants alone make more than 30,000 varieties. Some VOCs produce familiar herbal or flower smells. Others are released only in response to a specific cue. Within seconds of being damaged, plants send out green leaf volatiles (GLVs), which we can detect too—for example, as the smell of a newly mown lawn.

Gold & Silver

Click to read the PM Daily Market Commentary: 4/26/18

Provided daily by the Peak Prosperity Gold & Silver Group

Article suggestions for the Daily Digest can be sent to [email protected]. All suggestions are filtered by the Daily Digest team and preference is given to those that are in alignment with the message of the Crash Course and the "3 Es."

34 Comments

thc0655's picture
thc0655
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 27 2010
Posts: 1651
Update: Cape Town water crisis

Cape Town has gone from not enough rain to too much: floods this week, but reservoirs barely impacted (so far).

https://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/articles/south-africa-cape-town-hit-by-major-flood-after-severe-drought/100327

Day Zero (when the city's water was going to be shut off) has been moved back to sometime in 2019.

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/cape-town-water-crisis-day-zero-why-is-water-running-out/

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 3186
Marvin Gaye "Grapevine" acapella

 

Sorry, I guess I am unable to link the vid.  

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1962
chs; china creating nightmare centralized control of citizens

this musings report from charles hugh smith was so pertinent at terrifying that i had to pass it along.  fortunately, a chinese economic collapse may interrupt the effort to total centralized control.

in the west, chs is following the blowback against facebook, google and amazon as the citizenry starts to glimpse the power that they secretly weld. 

------------------------------------
Kafka's Nightmare Emerges: China's "Social Credit Score"

China is rapidly building out a Total Surveillance State on a scale that far surpasses any government surveillance program in the West.

The scope of this surveillance is so broad and pervasive that it borders on science fiction:



Life Inside China’s Total Surveillance State (8 min video)



China Aims For Near-Total Surveillance, Including in People's Homes ("Sharp Eyes" nationwide surveillance network)



"You're Being Controlled All The Time" - An Inside Look At China's "Social Credit Score"



China Assigns Every Citizen A 'Social Credit Score' To Identify Who Is And Isn’t Trustworthy

It's well known that the intelligence agencies in America seek what's known as Total Information Awareness, the goal being to identify and disrupt terrorists before they can strike.

This level of surveillance has run partly aground on civil liberties concerns, which still have a fragile hold on the American psyche and culture.

The implicit goal of China's Total Surveillance State is to control the citizenry and root out any dissent before it threatens The Communist Party's hold on power, but the explicit goal is a behavioral psychologist's dream: to reward "positive social behaviors" and punish "negative social behaviors" via a "Social Credit Score."

There is something breathtakingly appealing about this goal to anyone in a position of power: imagine being able to catch miscreants who smoke in no-smoking zones, who jaywalk, who cheat people online, and of course, who say something negative about those in power.

But let's ask a simple question of China's vast surveillance system: what if it makes mistakes? What if one of those thousands of cameras mis-identifies a citizen breaking some minor social code, and over time, does so enough times to trigger negative consequences for the innocent citizen?

What recourse does the citizen have?  It appears the answer is none, as the process is not strictly speaking judicial; the system appears to be largely automated.

Here's a second question: is the scoring system truly transparent, or can insiders place their thumbs on the scale, so to speak, to exact revenge on personal enemies?

Question #3: Who has the power to change the weightings within the automated software? Will criticizing the government online generate 1 negative point this month but 10 points next month? How can citizens with a handful of negative points, some perhaps erroneous mis-identifications, avoid crossing the dreaded threshold if they don't know how the system is truly ranking various violations?

This aligns perfectly with the world envisioned by Kafka in his novels The Trial and The Castle. .... China is creating Kafka's nightmare world as the perfection of centralized control of its citizenry. 

The question is: will the Chinese people tolerate this as long as the current artificial financialized "prosperity" reigns? What will happen to their perception and tolerance when the debt-fueled "prosperity" blows away like the sands of the Taklimakan Desert?

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1962
Doctor who reported Clinton Foundation Fraud Suicided

Multiple outlets reporting that the orthopedic surgeon who first exposed the Clinton Foundation Fraud in Haiti has committed suicide by stabbing himself in the chest (but missing his own heart).

Dr. Dean Lorich, an orthopedic surgeon who volunteered in Haiti and exposed Clinton Foundation corruption and malpractice on the island, has been found dead in New York. He was 54. Dr. Lorich was found by his 11-year-old daughter on the bathroom floor of his tony Upper East Side apartment with a knife in his chest at around 1pm on Monday.



The knife missed the surgeon’s heart, leaving him to bleed out and be found by his daughter. Despite the fact police were called to the property regarding an “assault“, they instantly registered the death as “suicide” and closed the case.

No barbells or nail guns were employed.

Mots's picture
Mots
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 18 2012
Posts: 196
chs; china creating nightmare centralized control of citizens

Thanks Sand man for reviewing CHS's insights on the Orwellian Issue.
Everyone should subscribe (and pay something) to CHS's "oftwomind.com blog.

Having visited China several times recently and asking these same questions of Chinese people in China, I would like to point out additional factors............. My interest originally was piqued when I heard (in English)  automated warnings about the new system while riding the bullet trains there.....

1. I dont think that China has a "current artificial financialized 'prosperity'" that will blow "away like the sands of the Taklimakan Desert."  Instead, I think that the production of real wealth by Chinese people has started: they are not focused on shell games, insurancing and lawyering in an American style financialization gimmicky economy. 
Their GDP is not primarily an account of racketeering, over inflated insurancing, unnecessary lawyering and hospital bills.  Instead of using the rubric of "GDP" to compare the decadent racketeering US economy vs increasing money supply with that of China it is important to examine important assumptions.  Something very different from the US game occurs now in China.  This  is not unlike what happened to the US during the early years of the last century when America really was producing new wealth.  The empty buildings etc in China are a small symptom of a great deal of real wealth production that is better matched with their increase in fiat than what has happened in the US.  The number of cars, lived in houses, computers cell phones, metals, roads, high speed rail, etc etc has exploded in China much more than the increase in number of new American made cars, American made computers, cell phones, steel, rare earth metals, roads, new bridges, high speed rail that has occurred in the US during the last 10-20 years and the fiat money invented as part of that is not side by side comparable as a GDP measurement.  China is a wealth producing economy.  Their economy is not a war-death-industry that primarily destroys real wealth (bridges, power stations, buildings) in the Middle East, nor is the main activity of that economy insurancing and racketeering.  Instead China is growing small companies and creating millions of good jobs.  See for example Jack Ma's interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsQ7ysVt-0A who explained that the US spent 15 trillion on war (destroying other countries' infrastructure) instead of its own infrastructure.  Jack Ma explains that instead of destroying companies and making Jeff Bezos rich, his model is to empower small businesses and help them start and to grow.  Bezos's 128 billion or whatever of America's GDP is not at all comparable to 128 billion of small job producing GDP in China, for example.  That is not sand to be blown away in a sandstorm 

2. The Chinese are very patriotic and proud of their achievements.  For better or worse, they put up with or approve their govt including spying much more than the Americans do their govt.  They see the benefits of having an all electronic payment system for example and seem to enjoy that system.  I agree that they will regret the govt spy system someday, but balance that against the real loss in life and extreme poverty that they used to endure.

3. The issue is not privacy per se but instead local organization vs national organization of the spying by others on individual behavior.  The Japanese have had Orwellian (lack of) privacy for probably hundreds of years. That is why the crime rate is so low.  Because of absolutely no privacy, starting at the home (no separate bedrooms etc) and extending everywhere, people are under strict behavior control.  Every little thing you do, someone is watching.  The judicial system in fact relies on this by transferring custody of most criminals effectively back to their community (in most cases) to control the offender better.  A complete computer monitored society being built in China is not necessarily more restrictive than what the Japanese have endured.  In this regard, CHS's comment about lack of judicial relief for errors is the biggest problem I think.  I expect that both Chinese people and US people are entering the same kind of neofeudal society wherein electronic spying covers all expressed thought via cell phones, computers and utility power meters (which report further details to those with money to buy private information). 

So, I think that the issue is not whether China is evil or becoming evil, but instead the issue is how can the citizens of both China and the US escape the yoke of totalitarianism / neofeudalism that is closing in on both countries.

The answer is small independent community development and cutting ties to globalists, who use electronic spying to extract wealth and assert control over us.  We need to spend our valuable limited time building self sufficient communities with our own local energy sources, food sources and private internet systems. Each one of us has the ability to make many tiny but concrete steps to take freedom back from the borg by things like a. turning off (or better, throwing out) the TV, b. only use cell phone when really needed, going to Galapagos style that does not replace the user's intelligence with the smarter cell phone, c. growing some food for personal consumption or giving to neighbors, d. making some electricity for personal and resilient use, e. build neighborhood internet system, f. work with friends with any kind of community activity to replace the TV time. 
We all know this.  The newly added thought from Sand man's good posting is how can we focus on eliminating electronic spying from our lives.  I suggest using an old version of  windows, avoiding any appliance that advertises it belongs to the internet of things, use and repair old appliances, avoiding smart meters, dropping facebook and gmail (protonmail.com is a good alternative)................................  

thc0655's picture
thc0655
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 27 2010
Posts: 1651
the Clinton Solution

kelvinator's picture
kelvinator
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 25 2008
Posts: 213
Snopes Says Nix on the Self-Stabbing Clinton Doctor

Oh well, Sandpuppy - 

It's hard to keep track of it all when fake news is falling in sheets from the sky...

Seems like there's enough real things to worry about - the Clintons' and the Trumps' real corruption are just a tiny part of the grand opera of human folly now now playing on our local media servers. ;-)

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/surgeon-clinton-foundation-corruption-...

mememonkey's picture
mememonkey
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 1 2009
Posts: 257
SNOPES has no Crediblity
kelvinator wrote:

Oh well, Sandpuppy - 

It's hard to keep track of it all when fake news is falling in sheets from the sky...

Seems like there's enough real things to worry about - the Clintons' and the Trumps' real corruption are just a tiny part of the grand opera of human folly now now playing on our local media servers. ;-)

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/surgeon-clinton-foundation-corruption-...

 

I have no idea about the details or veracity of the story regarding the  Dr's suicide/Clinton relations in this article  but I have zero confidence that SNOPES is an honest information broker.  SNOPES has repeatedly proven itself to be a  hyper partisan disinformation clearing house notably run by a scam artist and his former prostitute /escort (now wife) who are serving as political 'fact' checkers for mainstream media lies.

https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2017/jul/28/ticker-fact-checking-web...

They have made their original reputation debunking urban myths but their current business model they are trading on that "credibility" brand  and are whoring for the Democratic/ Deep State MSM war machine to sell their lies.    

Here is their take on the White Helmets:

SNOPES wrote:

A volunteer group of search and rescue workers called the Syria Civil Defense group — better known as the White Helmets — is frequently subjected to unfounded conspiracy theories, such as the claim that the group “stages” various acts of violence using “crisis actors.”

 

Syrian Rescue Organization ‘The White Helmets’ Are Terrorists?

A nongovernmental search-and-rescue organization on the ground in Syria has drawn a lot of attention, but claims they are linked to terrorists are unfounded.

Yeah. unless you don't believe your own lying eyes after doing  a simple YouTube search and watching them participating in executions, demonstrating and collaborating  with ISIS and faking attacks attacks and rescues.  Or do a bit of research on their founding, structure, funding and leadership.

 

mememonkey

saxplayer00o1's picture
saxplayer00o1
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 30 2009
Posts: 4192
Five thousand Venezuelans flee every day

Venezuelan refugee crisis faces a backlash across Latin America

PBS NewsHour-13 hours ago

Five thousand Venezuelans flee the economic collapse at home every day and resettle across Latin America, a region with a tradition of open borders. But now, countries are facing a backlash. This month, the governor of Roraima in northern Brazil sued the federal government, demanding it close the border and provide .

As water crisis bites, Venezuela governor outraged over empty pool

Jamaica Observer-6 hours ago
CARACAS, Venezuela (AFP) — The chronic water shortage in Venezuela which has left millions struggling to cope sparked fresh headlines last week after a state governor expressed outrage that his swimming pool was empty. In a video posted on his account, Rafael Lacava, governor of the northern Carabobo state, can ...

Fed Far From Ready to Declare Mission Accomplished on Inflation

Bloomberg-7 hours ago
Rising price pressures are encouraging the U.S. central bank to press ahead. The personal consumption expenditures price index excluding food and energy costs probably rose 1.9 percent in March from a year earlier, up from a 1.6 percent increase in February, according to the median forecast of economists polled by ...

Jumping Mortgage Rates Further Tighten Debt Vise for Canadians

Bloomberg-15 minutes ago

The heavy debt burden is one of the reasons the central bank has been reluctant to raise reluctant to raise borrowing costs further, after hiking interest rates three ... Given the nation's debt load -- as of February, households had a record C$2.1 trillion ($1.6 trillion) of mortgage and non-mortgage debt -- Poloz estimates the ..

 

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 7 2007
Posts: 5782
Snopes is an illegitimate soure

There are several websites, across a broad spectrum of topics, that are worse than merely bad to me because they purport to offer unbiased information but in fact are peddling the exact opposite.

As Mememonkey points out, the Snopes position on the White Helmets is so thoroughly out of alignment with massive volumes of easily located information is such a devastating blow to their credibility that their entire site is rendered useless as a result.

It's the reason that I am such a stickler for sourcing everything I can from multiple angles assuring that none of those angles is a hopelessly compromised source.  I desperately want to avoid having this site easily dismissed because we link to or peddle easily disproven assertions or ideas.

My #1 red flag that gets a site on my permanent bad-actor list is offering up "information" that does not and cannot pass a simple logic test or, worst of all, violates simple scientific principles.  

Again, these sites may not be doing this maliciously but simply because they are deeply entrenched partisans of one sort or another and their internal belief systems prevent them gathering the necessary data to even see that they are full of shit.  In many cases I believe they simply don't know.

As well there are malicious actors, for example sites funded buy the Koch brothers to advance or retard particular causes such as is the case with climate change, who are little different from the "scientists" and "doctors" that testified that sugar was fine and/or that there was no connection between smoking and ill health.  

I reserve actual contempt for these folks.  My integrity is my core value and I find myself sorting people and institutions on the basis of whether they have integrity or not.  My definition of integrity is that your actions, your words and your beliefs are in alignment, not that you hold the same views that I do.  

Int his view it's possible that the Koch brothers are in integrity (even though I vigorously disagree with their world views pretty much across the board) while the outfits and individuals that whore themselves out for a few Koch bucks are hopelessly out of integrity.  

I'm not sure about where Snopes falls on this spectrum ranging from useless to worthy of contempt, but I suspect they do what they do at least partly for the bucks and that places them pretty far down my list of useful sites.

Similarly I would never accept an article from Natural News about vaccinations, or a State Department release about Iran.

All in all, I would request that Snopes not be used here at PP as a starting point for proving or disproving anything.  They are entirely compromised and unhelpful.  

jerryr's picture
jerryr
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 31 2008
Posts: 157
Clintons are prime suspects in Dr. Lorich's death

Reading the Snopes article, their "debunking" is based on a version of the story from yournewswire.com, another dubious source. (More about that later.) Yournewswire said:


Quote:

Dr. Lorich was part of the relief effort sent by the U.S. to assist the relief effort led by the Clinton Foundation in Haiti after the devastating 2010 earthquake. However Dr. Lorich was disgusted by the “shameful” Clinton Foundation operation, and voiced his concerns to Hillary Clinton directly.

This is not exactly what happened. Dr. Lorich did go to Haiti immediately after the earthquake. He wrote an editorial which ran in the Wall Street Journal and at CNN, which was devastatingly critical of the relief effort.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/25/doctors.haiti.hardships/index.html


Quote:

The lack of support for our operation by the United States is shocking and embarrassing and shows how woefully unprepared we are for the realities of disasters. We came to understand that our isolated operation may work in a mission, but not in a disaster. ...

We implore an official organization to step up and take charge of the massive ongoing medical effort that will be necessary to care for the people of Haiti and their children. And to do it now.

The article did not name the Clintons or their foundation, and was not sent to the Clintons. However, they did receive a copy by way of another doctor. And, the fact is, the Clintons were in charge of relief operations.

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37826098

Quote:

Mrs Clinton was Secretary of State and Mr Clinton was UN Special Envoy to Haiti when the January 2010 earthquake struck, killing an estimated 220,000 people. 

Some $13.3bn (£10.9bn) was pledged by international donors for Haiti's recovery.

Mr Clinton was appointed co-chairman of the Interim Haiti Recovery Commission (IHRC), along with Haitian Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive.

The Clintons were definitely carrying on a PR campaign at the time, attempting to falsify the record on the Haiti situation. A letter by their own daughter Chelsea is particularly damning. 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/09/hillary-clinton-email-213110

Quote:

It’s hard to find anyone these days who looks back on the U.S.-led response to the January 12, 2010, Haiti earthquake as a success, but it wasn’t always that way. Right after the disaster, even as neighborhoods lay in rubble, their people sweltering under tarps, the consensus—outside Haiti—was that America’s “compassionate invasion” (as TIME Magazine called it) had been “largely a success” (Los Angeles Times), offering further proof that “in critical moments of the history of mankind … the United States is, in fact, the indispensable nation” (Expresso, Portugal).

As the latest release of Hillary Clinton’s personal emails by the U.S. State Department Monday revealed, that perception was not an accident. “We waged a very successful campaign against the negative stories concerning our involvement in Haiti,” Judith McHale, the under-secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs, wrote on February 26, 2010. A few weeks before, the public affairs chief had emailed newspaper quotations praising U.S. efforts in Haiti to Secretary Clinton with the note “Our Posts at work.” Clinton applauded. “That’s the result of your leadership and a new model of engagement w our own people,” she replied. “Onward!”

But one person even closer to the secretary of state was singing a different tune—very, very quietly. On February 22, after a four-day visit to the quake zone, Chelsea Clinton authored a seven-page memo which she addressed to “Dad, Mom,” and copied their chief aides. That informal report tells a continuing story of the unique brands of power and intelligence wielded by the Clinton family in Haiti and around the world—and of the uniquely Clinton ways they often undermine themselves.

A question that goes totally unaddressed in the Snopes report, is why anyone would imagine that Dr. Lorich would commit suicide by stabbing himself in the chest. The question I'm asking at this point, is: "Who has the power to shut down a police investigation of an obvious murder, cold in its tracks?"

jerryr's picture
jerryr
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 31 2008
Posts: 157
Nuke in Syria? yournewswire says so...

Snopes frequently debunks stories from yournewswire, because it seems that they just make stuff up. Or at any rate, they aren't afraid to speculate based on the news in front of them.

A case in point is their reporting on yesterday's bombing in Syria. According to the New York Times and most other mainstream outlets, the missile strikes hit military bases near Hama and Aleppo. "Suspicion immediately fell on Israel", which has neither confirmed nor denied that they were behind the attacks.

The Hama strike hit a munitions warehouse, and reportedly caused a seismic disturbance equivalent to a magnitude 2.6 earthquake.

Yournewswire.com headline was that a tactical nuke was responsible. But, as other reports on the internet agree, there's no evidence to that effect.

The question is, how do we know that it wasn't  a nuclear explosion? Is that normal, for a missile strike to cause such a huge blast?


Quote:

I desperately want to avoid having this site easily dismissed because we link to or peddle easily disproven assertions or ideas.

Are informed speculations OK? I think it's perfectly plausible that this was a tactical nuclear strike. There is evidence of a new family of nuclear weapons based on cold fusion technology. Please see the book "The Secret of the Three Bullets: A New Generation of Micro-Nuclear Weapons is On the Battlefield" by nuclear physicist Emilio Del Giudice; and my review of the book at: https://postflaviana.org/deuterium-shell-game/

Regards, 

-Jerry

kelvinator's picture
kelvinator
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 25 2008
Posts: 213
Few Sources Never Make Errors Including You, of Course, Chris

That's why I agree with you that relying on a source like Snopes as a sole source (or any sole source, including Peak Prosperity) doesn't make sense.   I don't believe everything that ANY news source says, but I don't disregard it either.  Like you, I may put single links to the NY Times or Zerohedge in a post I write if I think they have something interesting that may be true or useful, while other things they write are obviously biased or false as far as I'm concerned.  No one has a monopoly on the truth these days, though it's always useful to consider the source, as you say.

I believe your response on Sandpuppy's and my interaction shows your own (and Peak Prosperity's) bias when it comes to items like this.  You're demonizing the source - an endlessly repetitive strategy of Trump  - without saying a word about the fact that the story and meme that Sandpuppy is putting out there appears to be part of an over-arching, over-done narrative implying that the Clintons were somehow involved in or related to Dr. Lorich's suicide.  The Clintons are corrupt, IMO.  It's also true that, over time, there have been many false, over-the-top narratives about the Clintons as well.  And yet, you object to MY post about Lorich while not finding a problem that thc0655 is putting a picture of some gallows under the heading The Clinton Solution?  And you say you want this site to be objective and credible?  Why isn't the gallows for the Trumps as well, thc0655?  The Trump entourage stinks of corruption to high heaven - is the very vehicle of governmental corruption in America today.  But that doesn't seem to be how Peak Prosperity rolls.

Anything is possible, but I seriously doubt the Clintons were involved in Lorich's death based on what I've seen so far.   I have looked at other sources on this item and my personal assessment is that it's nonsense not worth our time of day, and I don't think your response focused on dissing sources alone is productive or objective in this discussion.  If you've got other information on that particular subject, let me know.  If Snopes says white helmets in Syria aren't related to terrorists, or NY Times (in 2003) says Iraq has WMD, or Zerohedge reports its percentage of crap it cranks out every week that I have to filter from its other valuable information, none of that causes me to reject any of those sources as one possible angle for gathering information.  As you say, it takes multiple angles for sources of information, and multiple points of view.  Trying to develop and maintain individual perspectives is a good thing, I imagine you'd agree.

jerryr's picture
jerryr
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 31 2008
Posts: 157
Clinton body count
kelvinator wrote:

  Why isn't the gallows for the Trumps as well, thc0655?  The Trump entourage stinks of corruption to high heaven - is the very vehicle of governmental corruption in America today.

Agreed that Trump corruption stinks to high heaven. And, he is quickly racking up a wartime body count of his own in Syria and around the world.

But, there's no evidence (that I know of) that Trump's particular brand of corruption involves murdering his close associates or critics. Unlike the Clintons, whose trail of suspected victims includes Vince Foster and at least 50 more. Statistically speaking, it's incredibly dangerous to cross swords with the Clintons.

kelvinator wrote:

Anything is possible, but I seriously doubt the Clintons were involved in Lorich's death based on what I've seen so far.   I have looked at other sources on this item and my personal assessment is that it's nonsense not worth our time of day,

What is the basis for that conclusion? Any sources other than Snopes?

Do you seriously believe that this skilled surgeon would kill himself in such an incredibly painful way as to stab himself in the chest but miss his heart?

Who had the power to shut down the police investigation of this obvious murder, right out of the gate?

But of course it's possible he was killed by someone else, for some other reason.

thc0655's picture
thc0655
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 27 2010
Posts: 1651
Radiation would be the tell

Yournewswire.com headline was that a tactical nuke was responsible. But, as other reports on the internet agree, there's no evidence to that effect.

The question is, how do we know that it wasn't  a nuclear explosion? Is that normal, for a missile strike to cause such a huge blast?

Radiation in the air would be the tell that a tactical nuclear device had been used.  However, if the initial missile or bomb attack struck and detonated a store of ammunition, it could easily have seemed like a tactical nuclear device and create an earth tremor of 2.6 on the Richter scale.
 
On December 6, 1917 an ammunition ship accidentally blew up in Nova Scotia's harbor causing the largest explosion caused by humans in history before the advent of nuclear weapons. Tremors were apparently felt in NYC and the scene looked exactly like what we'd expect to see after a tactical nuclear weapon detonated. It was the equivalent of 2.9 kilotons of TNT.  For comparison, it's estimated the "Little Boy" weapon dropped on Hiroshima yielded 13-18 kilotons.  The "Davy Crockett" tactical weapon has a yield that can be adjusted before use, yielding as little as 0.01 kilotons.
 
On 13 April 2017 the US dropped it's largest conventional bomb ever (MOAB) on  relatively small target in Afganistan, causing an explosion that local observers could easily have described as a tactical nuke, including a "little" mushroom cloud.  Below is test footage:
 
davefairtex's picture
davefairtex
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 3 2008
Posts: 5531
debunking source

Kelvinator-

Just want to observe that Snopes sets itself out to be a debunking site ("painstaking research"), while Tom's gallows picture is just a picture - it doesn't purport to be anything other than some guy's political cartoon.  Snopes should be held to a higher standard, because that's what they set themselves up to be.

Otherwise, we should just look for answers at the Onion.

Which, these days, actually works out better than you might expect.

https://politics.theonion.com/dnc-files-lawsuit-alleging-nation-should-never-ever-st-1825424101

kelvinator's picture
kelvinator
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 25 2008
Posts: 213
The Onion and Late Night TV Have a Better Picture

sometimes than the fact-checkers, that's true Dave.  The idea that the Clintons are leaving a trail of 50+ bodies of "people that cross them", including a guy who wrote an editorial that could be deemed critical of what their foundation did or didn't do in Hayti just seems truly delusional to me. Unreal.  Any site that supports demonization that's not real but is rather based on stories or facts that don't stand up to scrutiny - whether it's about Clinton or Trump or anyone else as the supposed demon - aren't operating in the service of objectivity and the truth. 

If facts aren't known, you have to be willing to say you don't know.  I don't know for a fact that the Clintons haven't left a bloody trail of bodies, but I certainly haven't seen anyone present any evidence that they have that ridiculous demonic habit, and my reading of them and reality says that actually is very unlikely.  If jerryr, you present your information and debunking sources here, what would our illustrious body assembled here have to say about the sources and fact-checking on that?

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1962
Importance of the Basic Organizing Story

A great Optical Illusion shows the impact of the organizing story.  It is called the "Vase Face Optical Illusion."  It is great because every one can see both stories.

The "facts" remain constant (the physical ink on the page) but the "story" (conceptualization) changes.

Our brains can toggle between the two stories, but most people say that they cannot see both at the same time. 

So a new little line factoid is introduced:  is it a wrinkle sitting on the lip or is it a scratch on the stem of the vase?

With the Clinton body count issue, if the starting point is the basic organizing story is that HRC is a swell gal, smart, cares for women and children, good negotiator, good for the country because she brings a strong woman into politics.  Then, reports of a a death of a political adversary is assumed to be unrelated and any insinuation that they are related is "fake news," "from unreliable sources,"  "hearsay and innuendo," "exaggerations," "lies" and "propaganda."  All 150 of them.  And the news sources that say HRC is great are judged trustworthy and reliable news sources. 

The consistency of the story is maintained.

However, if the basic organizing story is that HRC is proven corrupt to the core and is widely known to conduct politics like a mafia boss, then the death of a political adversary is assumed to be related and is considered another example of her standard MO.  

jerryr's picture
jerryr
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 31 2008
Posts: 157
Body count at 150...

I had no idea that Rivero's version of the count had gone so high. Especially sorry to see Victor Thorn on the list. 

https://joeforamerica.com/2016/08/anti-hillary-author-victor-thorn-predicted-suicide-talk-radio-last-words/

Quote:

Victor Thorn, aka Scott Robert Makufka, was an American author who focused on researching subjects concerning conspiracies – like the Clintons. He had written more than 20 books and 30 so-called “chapbooks”. He gained a lot of popularity writing about the Clintons, their history, power and scandals including Bill Clinton’s sexual assaults and Hillary being a lesbian.  He was also a reporter for the American Free Press.

Thorn was best known his Clinton trilogy, Hillary (And Bill): The Sex VolumeHillary (And Bill): The Drugs Volume, and Hillary (And Bill): The Murder Volume, as well as his latest book, Crowning Clinton: Why Hillary Shouldn’t Be in the White House.

How’d he die? 

“Allegedly” he shot himself on a mountain near his home on August 1st.  He took his own life on his birthday. August 1st – the same day Hillary Clinton was “coronated” the Democratic nominee for president.

What’s the big deal? 

Thorn’s death was ruled a “suicide”, even though Victor recently claimed on Russell Scott’s Talk Radio Show, if he was ever found dead – it wasn’t him.” ...

Scott said on his show, why would Victor Thorn kill himself? Victor had a purpose and people with a purpose – love to live. Scott also said, having purpose is not an attribute of a person who would kill himself.  Scott strongly believes based on Victor Thorn’s own testament, he didn’t kill himself.

Also see the Clinton body count page at Conservapedia:

http://www.conservapedia.com/Clinton_body_count

 

mememonkey's picture
mememonkey
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 1 2009
Posts: 257
The Real Clinton Body Count Much Higher!
kelvinator wrote:

If facts aren't known, you have to be willing to say you don't know.  I don't know for a fact that the Clintons haven't left a bloody trail of bodies, but I certainly haven't seen anyone present any evidence that they have that ridiculous demonic habit, and my reading of them and reality says that actually is very unlikely.  If jerryr, you present your information and debunking sources here, what would our illustrious body assembled here have to say about the sources and fact-checking on that?

 

I know for certain that the Clintons have left a bloody trail of bodies.  If you care to include Iraq, Serbia, Libya, Syria etc.  their body count is quite impressive.(even if you just count the women and  children!)

With regards to their domestic political killings, my sense is that the oft referenced Arkancide body counts is wildly exaggerated, most of those on the lists don't pass the basic cost benefit analysis to warrant the risk of murdering them.

  That said, I would be very surprised if several of the 'suicides' and mystery deaths of  some of The Clinton's key adversaries and scheduled witnesses  were not actually foul play.

I'm always struck by how easy it is for Americans to readily accept that other countries pols have people killed (Putin being the demon du jour) but assumes we're somehow above that here.  Sort of an extension of our National myth of exceptionalism and inherent 'goodness'.   Yet we retain this belief in the face of our own domestic political  assassinations  and a documented history of our foreign policy political assassinations.

Considering were a global empire with untold Trillions of dollars at stake and the presidency is the key to world wide life and death power dynamics and the ultimate patronage gig with all of the personal fortune, power and benefits that that entails.  I would say the motives for foul play are built in. 

The US government is literally the largest and most violent extortion,money laundering drug dealing racketeering enterprise on the planet and the type of people that claw their way to that level of power and influence and the interested parties that enable them, reflect that.

Sandpuppy is right.   You either see the Clintons for the corrupt power hungry mafia organization that they are, or you don't.  If your able to look past your personal politics, and their Public Relations image and spin and examine  their actual behaviors, their demonstrated morals and their consolidation of power money and influence over the years you'd have to be pretty naive to think they don't have any bodies buried.  

And while I think the Clinton's are uniquely and capably corrupt, this deadly dynamic is not unique to the Clinton's, this is the oldest story in the world.

 

mm

kelvinator's picture
kelvinator
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 25 2008
Posts: 213
It's a Complex Reality and Facts Matter

Establishment politicians in the US leave a trail of bodies because that's what the government of the US does as a matter of policy with its endless wars - you don't have any argument from me on that, meme-monkey.  I also am glad to hear you acknowledge that some of the Clinton political-enemy body counts might be wildly exaggerated.  I can accept that US politicians and power brokers might have people killed, but I still haven't seen any more credible evidence that corrupt Clintons have had political adversaries killed than I have seen evidence that the corrupt Trump has had his political adversaries killed.  And some of the stories seem just plain dumb - as you say, there's no cost/benefit analysis that indicates their "victims" were worth the trouble.  

You may think it obvious that if we look at the Clintons’ demonstrated morals and their consolidation of power money and influence over the years we need to conclude they literally have bodies buried.  To me, though, I just see their demonstrated morals and consolidation of power and money as being the very much same corruption being done by big shots with less celebrity in banks and corporations around the world - not by everyone, but by a lot of big players.  And I've already posted elsewhere I know for a fact based on reporting I believe that people do get killed by the powerful along the way, here in the US and elsewhere.  Still, sorry, I just don’t jump to the conclusion that any corrupt person has necessarily been killing people without credible evidence, with the Clintons or anyone else.  I know they are popular figures to pile all the evils of the world on to while we pile all good and self-righteousness onto ourselves.

Jerryr, in response to my request for credible sources for the Clintons have had people killed, you say you're sorry to hear that Van Thorn is on the body list.  Clearly, he seems to be one of your sources, or am I wrong?  You include a quote saying “Victor Thorn, aka Scott Robert Makufka, was an American author who focused on researching subjects concerning conspiracies – like the Clintons.”  Others describe Victor Thorn as a “right wing anti-semitic conspiracy theorist.”  You say he’s well-known for writing “ his Clinton trilogy, Hillary (And Bill): The Sex VolumeHillary (And Bill): The Drugs Volume, and Hillary (And Bill): The Murder Volume”. 

Others think his most notable book was “The Holocaust Hoax” in which he debunks “the 20th Century’s biggest lie!”, the Holocaust.  Sorry, jerryr, I toured Dachau in Germany and lived with Germans for many years, and have a Jewish wife from a family devastated by the Holocaust.  The Holocaust was real.  I have zero respect for anti-semitic, nazi propaganda.  It’s hate-group fodder filled crap and clearly, so is Victor Thorn as a source.  Chris, I’m sure that to maintain the integrity of the Peak Prosperity site, you’re just about to wade in here and affirm how illegitimate the sources are jerryr has just referenced for his 150 Clinton body count, right?   

https://barnesreview.org/product/the-holocaust-hoax-exposed-debunking-th...

 

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 3186
Holocaust deniers
Quote:

Others think his most notable book was “The Holocaust Hoax” in which he debunks “the 20th Century’s biggest lie!”, the Holocaust.  Sorry, jerryr, I toured Dachau in Germany and lived with Germans for many years, and have a Jewish wife from a family devastated by the Holocaust.  The Holocaust was real.  I have zero respect for anti-semitic, nazi propaganda.  It’s hate-group fodder filled crap and clearly, so is Victor Thorn as a source.  Chris, I’m sure that to maintain the integrity of the Peak Prosperity site, you’re just about to wade in here and affirm how illegitimate the sources are jerryr has just referenced for his 150 Clinton body count, right?   

One of the indicia of lack of honesty that is an absolute for me is the notion that the Holocaust was a hoax.  It is a lie that is unforgivable no matter the rest of your politics.  I've known people who still have the numbers tattooed on their arms.  I had a college friend whose mother was the sole survivor of her extended Italian Jewish family.  The evidence is overwhelming.  Any, and I mean any, publication or writer who promotes the hoax notion deserves to be in the dustbin.  They have no credibility.  If they lie about that, they will lie about anything.

Unfortunately, the actual survivors are old and will soon pass from the scene, and I fear their passing will leave a hole that the deniers will fill.  Its difficult to deny when confronted with actual survivors.  We must remember their motto, 'never forget.'   I join Kelvinator in calling on Chris to disavow at least any sources that claim the Holocaust is a hoax.  It seems to me an important marker to lay down for anyone who claims any credibility for him/her self or media outlet.

Time2help's picture
Time2help
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 9 2011
Posts: 2854
Speaking of Denial

davefairtex's picture
davefairtex
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 3 2008
Posts: 5531
deniers

While I'm totally against the "destroying Israel's neighbors" policy that the US seems to have been embarked upon for the past 20 years, I also think denying what the Nazis did in those camps is wrong also - both morally, and factually.

As Doug says, the evidence is overwhelming.

But the one act doesn't justify the other.  Just because there was a holocaust doesn't mean the US needs to sign up to the plan to destroy all of Israel's neighbors.

I believe the Likud government in Israel is taking that country down the road to destruction.  They will win every battle, but they will eventually lose the war.  And I'm concerned that they are dragging us right along with them.

But I also agree with Doug.  If you start out by denying the holocaust, I question everything else that you say.

 

jerryr's picture
jerryr
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 31 2008
Posts: 157
Holocaust reality

I didn't even know that Victor Thorn had written that book about the Holocaust. I have two books of his on my shelf, from 2003 and 2005. I stopped following him because (in my opinion) he tended to over-emphasize the role of the Jewish religion and the state of Israel in world politics; i.e. "Israel did 9/11".

In my opinion, "The Empire" that was responsible for the 911 false flag operation, is a complex entity made up of several religious and philosophical strands. Christian Zionists, Catholics, Muslims, and occult Freemasons all have important roles to play. A focus on any particular sub-group is, in my opinion, a serious analytical error.

There's no question in my mind that the Nazis carried out a massive ethnic cleansing in Europe, virtually eliminating all the Jews from the entire region. Population figures before and after make this entirely clear. And the verified tales of the Einsatzgruppen are more than enough to show the moral horror of the operation.

The holocaust revisionist theory, as I understand it, is that the gas chambers at Auschwitz and Dachau were not primarily designed or used for mass murder. But rather, the camps were transfer stations, and the Jews were shipped eastward to destinations such as Siberia, where they mostly perished as slaves. What a horrifying debate. There seems to be a lack of evidence on both sides; what little I've seen supports the view that the gas chambers were indeed death factories. There's no evidence at all, that I know of, to support the transfer station view.

Calling the Holocaust a "hoax" seems oversimplified and sensationalist to me, and I don't support it. But having said that, I also wonder about the declaration that any author who questions the gas chamber narrative, is automatically verboten and discredited?

Before concluding that Victor Thorn belongs in the same category as Snopes as an object of contempt, somebody should go read his latest materials and judge whether he's violated Chris's basic criteria, 


Quote:

offering up "information" that does not and cannot pass a simple logic test or, worst of all, violates simple scientific principles.

Chris also said: 


Quote:

My definition of integrity is that your actions, your words and your beliefs are in alignment, not that you hold the same views that I do.

 

I'd like to finish up by reminding everybody that Dean Lorich and Victor Thorn were both obviously murdered in the prime of life, and police refused to investigate. Both were politically very high profile.

Speculation aside, we don't know who killed them. Police declare "suicide" and that's the end of the story, in spite of obvious evidence to the contrary. How is this acceptable in a country we call civilized? Because Thorn was a "holocaust denier" is it therefore OK that he was taken to a mountaintop and shot? Our times are feeling more and more like the decadent late Roman Republic.

kelvinator's picture
kelvinator
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 25 2008
Posts: 213
Agree, Dave

I completely agree.  My wife and her immediate family, and my brother's wife, who is also Jewish and originally from Israel, and her family still in Israel also believe that the current, aggressive, immoral Israeli government is doing great damage to the country - and doing damage to US interests and putting a peaceful world future at risk at the same time.  As I say, it's a complex world, and anyone interested in the truth has to avoid stereotyping, has to distinguish various events and issues from one another, avoid over-demonized caricatures of the players, (they're bad enough), over-generalizing, etc. to arrive at an understanding that has a hope of approaching the truth.

davefairtex's picture
davefairtex
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 3 2008
Posts: 5531
nuance: israel vs likud

I've noticed a tendency at the site for people to say "Israel" when what they really mean is "Likud and their allies."  That's similar to foreigners saying "United States" when what they really mean is "Trump."

Israel is no more monolithic than the US is - although Likud seems to have a grip on power right now, that was not always the case.  (Old saying: if you have two Jews in a room, you will get three opinions).  I had a consulting contract in Israel many years ago - it was a real help in understanding (for me) how things work there.  Take driving, for instance.  If you are at a stoplight, and the light turns green, and you delay moving for longer than about a miillisecond, the guy behind you will absolutely lean on his horn.  That's the country in a nutshell.

I really think extremists in both Israel and the Arab world feed off each other.  It wouldn't surprise me to find out that, for instance, that extremists in both Israel and Palestine have routinely subverted peace processes via false flags and other provocations.  "All for the good of the nation."  Might they even be (occasionally) working together?  Wouldn't that be a scandal, if true?

 

jerryr's picture
jerryr
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 31 2008
Posts: 157
Nuance: Victor Thorn's death; Likud nukes

Catching up on the news about Victor Thorn: I see that the police did claim that there were suicide notes, and Thorn's brother believes that he did commit suicide. Many of Thorn's fans are not convinced, arguing that the notes were fake and that the family protests seemed forced and unnatural. But contrary to my earlier remarks, the case doesn't seem so 'obvious' as I thought.

In agreement with Dave, I will use the word "Likud" for the current Israeli government. I want to be clear that in my post about the Likud bombing attack on Syria, I was posing a question about whether it was a nuclear attack. I was not claiming to know the answer, nor intending to make an insinuation. I was just expressing curiousity. In this case, the explosion of many missiles at a munitions dump seems to be a possible explanation for the seismic effect.

Dave said about the Likud: "They will win every battle, but they will eventually lose the war." Isn't that true for every nuclear weapons state? In a major war involving nuclear weapons states, the entire human race is the loser.

sand_puppy's picture
sand_puppy
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 13 2011
Posts: 1962
Holocaust Story as a Sacred Myth

I view the holocaust (small h) as a historical event that has been elevated to the role of a Sacred Myth, which I will call "the Holocaust Myth" with a capital H.  This myth, though based on historical events in the 1940s, is currently in use, in 2018, in its mythic function.

A brief back ground on the concept of the Sacred Myth.   David Ray Griffin, a theologian, explains the role of the Sacred Myth.

I am here using the term "myth" in two senses. In one sense, a myth is an idea that, while widely believed, is false, failing to correspond with reality.

In a deeper sense, which is employed by students of religion, a myth serves as an orienting and mobilizing story for a people, a story that reminds them who they are and why they do what they do. When a story is called as a myth in this sense---which we can call Myth with a capital M---the focus is not on the story's relation to [historical] reality but on its function. This orienting and mobilizing function is possible, moreover, only because Myths with a capital M have religious overtones. Such a Myth is a Sacred Story.

However, although to note that a story functions as a Myth in the religious sense is not necessarily to deny its truth, a story cannot function as a Sacred Myth within a community or nation unless it is believed to be true. In most cases, moreover, the truth of the Myth is taken on faith. It is not a matter of debate. If some people have the bad taste to question the truth of the Sacred Story, the keepers of the faith do not enter into debate with them. Rather, they ignore them or denounce them as blasphemers. 

No one (with good taste) is permitted to debate Sacred Myths.  To question a sacred myth shows moral depravity and to reaffirm belief in the myth, virtue.

1.  The function of the Holocaust Myth in today's world is to anchor the Jewish people and Israel in the victim role.  Victim status offers the moral high ground for unlimited "retaliatory" violence.  The genocide of the Palestinians, for example, is justified by the holocaust.

2.  The second and most destructive function of the Holocaust Myth is that it is used to anchor the Jewish people in the BLUE Meme thought pattern where ethnic hyper-identification is ascendant over identification with all of humanity

As I see it:  the hyper-ethnocentric identification of BLUE Meme Judaism is based on two poles--the specialness of the Jewish identity (favored by God above all others) and siege mentality ("EVERYONE wants to destroy us--we MUST stick together").  

Thus, the Holocaust Myth is used to anchor the Siege Mentality in today's Jewish people and anchors BLUE Meme thinking, preventing the letting go into a world-centric viewpoint where all human beings are seen as valuable and equal in worth.

Mohammed Mast's picture
Mohammed Mast
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: May 17 2017
Posts: 193
Tabasco

If anyone is anywhere near Avery Island they need to stop in, or make a trip there. It is stunningly beautiful and a tribute to an incredible family.

davefairtex's picture
davefairtex
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 3 2008
Posts: 5531
sacred myths

On the one hand, the Jews really did have enemies that sent them off to the gas chambers.  They could be forgiven (in my eyes) for being concerned it might happen again.  "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."  Is this concern a "seige mentality"?  What's the point where a legitimate concern becomes "seige mentality"?

On the other hand, I don't agree with the tactics of Likud in Israel in using the US as a cats-paw to destroy their neighbors.  We're idiots to play along.

Amazingly enough, I can hold both beliefs in my mind at the same time.

Now then, about Sacred Myths:

For the 9/11 group here, has "9/11 was an inside job" become a Sacred Myth?

Do you all have a "seige mentality" about false flags?

Is debating whether or not it happened the way you believe feel as though it is "in bad taste?"

Most importantly, do "deniers" of the 9/11-inside-job-story trigger that Backfire Effect, the same way they apparently do to those who react negatively to holocaust deniers.

Don't take the above questions too seriously.  [Impossible!  MY Sacred Myth is really super important!]

I'm just trying to point out that its human nature to internalize lessons from important events.  And while we are looking in horror at someone else's Sacred Myth, we may be operating under exactly that same regime ourselves.

Rinse, repeat.

Mainly because we're human.

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 7 2007
Posts: 5782
Einstein weighs in....

...60 years before the rest of us.  

Albert Einstein, among many others foresaw the destructiveness of the current Likud approach many years ago.   In a letter of December 1948 he and other prominent Jews denounced Menachem Begin (the original Likud) to the New York Times as a fascist.

“TO THE EDITORS:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the “”Freedom Party”” (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin’s political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin’’s behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

The public avowals of Begin’’s party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future. Attack on Arab Village

 

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants —— 240 men, women, and children —— and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.

The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.

During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.

The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.

Discrepancies Seen

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a “”Leader State”” is the goal.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin’’s efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism. (signed)

Isidore Abramowitz, Hannah Arendt, Abraham Brick, Rabbi Jessurun Cardozo, Albert Einstein, Herman Eisen, M.D., Hayim Fineman, M. Gallen, M.D., H.H. Harris, Zelig S. Harris, Sidney Hook, Fred Karush, Bruria Kaufman, Irma L. Lindheim, Nachman Maisel, Symour Melman, Myer D. Mendelson, M.D., Harry M. Orlinsky, Samuel Pitlick, Fritz Rohrlich, Louis P. Rocker, Ruth Sager, Itzhak Sankowsky, I.J. Schoenberg, Samuel Shuman, M. Znger, Irma Wolpe, Stefan Wolpe New York, Dec. 2, 1948”

After the death of the first president of Israel in 1952, the Israeli government offered the post of president to Einstein. He declined the offer.

More at: http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/old/Einstein.htm

Smart man, obviously.  I think we could all write the same letter about the USA right now and the neocons.  Blame, anger, fear, and lashing out never work in the long run.   Neither at the personal level nor at the state level.

And, yes, I'll happily denounce anyone who says the holocaust never happened.  But I'll also support anyone who wants to research it and happens to find something that alters the Sacred Myth...as long as it is provable and documented reputably.

Everything needs to be open to question, especially history.

One part of the Sacred Myth I've never ascribed to was that it was a special sort of horror. An evil on display never before seen, and of a special depravity.

King Leopold did worse, or just as bad depending on how we begin to record horrors in the millions of unpleasant deaths.  So did Columbus.  See also the Armenians.  Or what Genghis Khan and his grandson did.  Man, that was some nasty stuff.  So was WW I (trench warfare and gassings).  And WW II (Dresden firebombing).  

My view is that we really should try not to be that bad again.  But Gaza certainly looks just as bad to me as the Wausau ghetto ever was.    How the US treated the natives (under Obama too) at standing rock was really, truly deplorable, and just an extension of the genocide of the Native Americans - a project begun long ago that has not really stopped.  

I don't really make distinctions based on who's doing the what to whom.  Crappy is crappy.  

The only way out of this is to reconnect with ourselves and our inner sense of self.  Being in right relationship with the world requires being in right relationship with ourselves first.  As within, so without.  

Nor more "us vs. them" whether that be human vs human or human vs the rest of the life on this planet.  

jerryr's picture
jerryr
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 31 2008
Posts: 157
911 Facts

Sand_puppy's link is broken. The correct link is here:

http://911truth.org/911-the-myth-and-the-reality/

DRG is arguing that the 'official story' of 911 has served as the orienting myth of broader American 'gentile' culture. And, while its religious function is interesting to analyze, nevertheless it's an important question whether the myth is true or false.

It shouldn't be too hard to recognize that "Sacred Myths" which are based in lies, could lead to serious negative consequences for the believers. DRG says:


Quote:

According to the official story about 9/11, America, because of its goodness, was attacked by fanatical Arab Muslims who hate our freedoms. This story has functioned as a Sacred Myth for the United States since that fateful day. And this function appears to have been carefully orchestrated. The very next day, President Bush announced his intention to lead “a monumental struggle of Good versus Evil.”  Then on September 13, he declared that the following day would be a National Day of Prayer and Remembrance for the Victims of the Terrorist Attacks. And on that next day, the president himself, surrounded by Billy Graham, a cardinal, a rabbi, and an imam, delivered a sermon in the national cathedral ....

Given the role the official account of 9/11 has played and continues to play, the most important question before our country today is whether this account, besides being a Myth in the religious sense, is also a myth in the pejorative sense—that is, whether it is simply false.

In the remainder of the article, DRG lists nine key components of the official story which are demonstrably false. 

Now, it's all quite amusing to claim that the 'false flag / inside job' theory functions as yet another 'sacred myth' for those who support it. So what if it does?

The important point is, the "9/11 group here" is willing to defend our version of events, as factually grounded in reality. I have never heard of a '911 truth' advocate of any stripe, who is shy of debating on that basis.

 

Yoxa's picture
Yoxa
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 21 2011
Posts: 299
A different myth
Quote:

 was attacked by fanatical Arab Muslims who hate our freedoms. This story has functioned as a Sacred Myth

Outside the US the myth is different. It's more to the effect that it wasn't much of a surprise that someone, somehow, would consider it righteous to strike back at an international bully. (Ponder Chris M's recent comments about US black ops in assorted countries being common knowledge.)

After all Ronald Reagan's pushing for Star Wars, it was ironic how low-tech the attack was when it came.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments