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    Covid-19: Vindication! HCQ+ & Ivermectin Work!

    How many people have unnecessarily died/suffered as these were resisted?
    by Adam Taggart

    Wednesday, July 8, 2020, 2:26 PM

Wow — a lot to cover in this video update.

First: high fives all around for fans of quality science! Our months’ long position that both hydroxycholorquine+azithromycin+zinc and ivermectin showed strong promise as cheap, effective treatments vs covid-19 now appears to be proven correct.

Of course, up until this point, the media has parroted “junk science” talking points designed to malign and vilify these treatment candidates, very likely on behalf of Big Pharma who can’t reap $billions off of them. And in the meantime, millions of sick patients worldwide have likely been denied these drugs as a result.

How many people have died/suffered as a result?

Other big developments to note: covid-19 appears to have mutated into a more contagious strain, more evidence is mounting that the virus spreads in an airborne manner, and it seems herd immunity without a vaccine may be harder to achieve than previously anticipated.

All this leads us to maintain our expectation that the world has a long way to go yet before the pandemic is anywhere near “under control”.

GET YOUR RESILIENCE SHIRT! If you want your own RESILIENCE shirt to proudly wear like Chris & Adam, click here.

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118 Comments

  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 3:40pm

    #1

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 206

    1

    Ralph Baric et.al. vs QAnon

    https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article241996426.html

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 4:15pm

    #2

    sand_puppy

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2011

    Posts: 2436

    25

    Facebook appeal to HCQ / Zn / Azith Tx early

    Circulated on facebook.   (Unfortunately, it came via the EM Doctors group with a tone of "how dare this quack write this kind of trash, we must stop him....."  🙁

    --------

    My name is Brian C. Procter MD and I am a Board-Certified Family Physician in McKinney, Texas. I am a colleague of Dr. Ivette Lozano that was interviewed a few weeks ago.  [posted here on PP by OliveOilGuy and Jim H]

    I respectfully suggest that there is a much bigger issue/story here. Most commentators are discussing inpatient treatment only. If patients are admitted to the ICU then their chances of survival are dismal. But what happens when we treat patients 3-6 weeks earlier, when they first develop symptoms? I have been treating COVID-19 patients in the outpatient trenches for over 2 months now just like Dr. Lozano. I like her, I am using Hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, losartan, aspirin, and zinc (all for less than $50 at my local pharmacy). We have identified, diagnosed, and successfully treated these patients at a relatively early point in the course of the disease.

    It is these statistics that are amazing. I have treated over 50 patients without a single death, ventilator, or hospitalization. Dr. Lozano has treated twice that many with the same success. I even treated one patient that was discharged from a hospital the day before who was treated with IV fluids only for 4 days and released, still feeling terrible! We are two community docs using EARLY AGGRESSIVE OUTPATIENT TREATMENT to handle the disease with a 100% success rate (ZERO Admissions, ZERO).

    Therefore, If we can treat patients EARLY for $50, we seem to be successful at preventing hospitalizations, ICUs, and death as well as saving tens of thousands of healthcare dollars per sick patient. My local ICU doctors have pleaded with me to keep doing what I am doing. The answer seems to be EARLY AGGRESSIVE OUTPATIENT TREATMENT and NOT contact tracing (which is communism and ! cannot even get the Public Health Dept on the phone), quarantine (which destroys millions of lives), wearing masks (which is ridiculous as a long term solution w/o proven data), a vaccine (by the time we get it, likely won't need it), social distancing (which won't sustain or GDP with 25% occupancy), testing (ALL tests have a high false negative rates, or watchful waiting (a tactic that has needlessly resulted in 100,000 deaths).

    We could also place all Nursing home patients on HCQ prophylaxis for 180 days on a voluntary basis of course. This could theoretically prevent thousands of needless hospitalizations and deaths.

    In conclusion, if we treat COVID-19 just like anything else we treat (ie, the flu, pneumonia, a sinus infection, hypertension, and diabetes) early and aggressively with a regimen that costs $50 out of pocket or less with 100% success (which is a far better stat than treating all those other conditions), then why is the country shut down and doing social distancing? This political sham must stop.

    The American people deserve to know they can go to their regular doctor and get treated early with a regimen that is completely safe and extremely effective, and they do not need to worry about ending up in the hospital and dying. The public is UNAWARE of this, please educate them with the truth. The country needs to return to normal NOW.

    This is the REAL story. Please feel free to contact me with questions. My heart goes out to all those who have needlessly suffered and continue to suffer during this sham crisis and a disease that is extremely treatable if treated EARLY!!!

    BRIAN C. PROCTER MD

     

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 4:41pm

    #3

    Poet

    Status: Platinum Member

    Joined: Jan 20 2009

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    4

    Why not mention Zinc? Might draw attention to chimera-creation+gain-of-function research

    Why not mention Zinc? Then Ralph Baric might end up drawing attention to his Wuhan chimera creation and gain-of-function research...

    Poet

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 6:06pm

    #4
    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Posts: 175

    1

    Dr. Baric working on novel antiviral

    https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/12/541/eabb5883

     

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 6:31pm

    #5
    Island girl

    Island girl

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    2

    It is Ralph S. Baric not Robert Baric

    IG apologizes for the error.

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 7:21pm

    #6
    timot78

    timot78

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    7

    Dr . Fauci on HCQ 15 yrs ago w.r.t. coronavirus treatment

    https://truepundit.com/deadly-cover-up-fauci-approved-hydroxychloroquine-15-years-ago-to-cure-coronaviruses-nobody-needed-to-die/

     

    Really, what's going on?

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 7:23pm

    #7
    westcoastjan

    westcoastjan

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    4

    Arcticle for review/comment by those with expertise

    https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Persistent-replication-of-severe-acute-respiratory-Pacciarini-Ghezzi/5cea85c2b1dfb776988389452e06e3db1d4d0a09

    Note Ralph S Baric, mentioned by Island Girl, is one of this 2008 paper's authors. I make no claim to understand this well. The section in bold font, below, struck me as being potentially important to further understanding how this virus works/inflicts bodily damage:

    Severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) is a systemic disease characterized by both lung pathology and widespread extrapulmonary virus dissemination causing multiple organ injuries. In this regard, renal dysfunction is an ominous sign in patients with SARS. Indeed, clusters of SARS coronavirus (SARS-CoV) particles have been detected in the cytoplasm of renal tubular epithelial cells in postmortem studies, explaining the presence of infectious virus in the urine of SARS patients. In order to investigate the potential SARS-CoV kidney tropism, we have evaluated the susceptibility of human renal cells of tubular and glomerular origin to in vitro SARS-CoV infection. Immortalized cultures of differentiated proximal tubular epithelial cells (PTEC), glomerular mesangial cells (MC), and glomerular epithelial cells (podocytes) were found to express the SARS-CoV receptor angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 on their surface. Productive infection, however, occurred only in PTEC but not in glomerular cells. A transient infection with poor virus production was observed in MC, whereas podocytes were not permissive to SARS-CoV infection. In contrast to the cytopathic infection of the Vero E6 cell line, SARS-CoV did not cause overt cytopathic effects in PTEC or MC. Of interest, PTEC, but not MC, maintained stable levels of SARS-CoV production in serial subcultures, suggesting a persistent state of infection. In this regard, a SARS-CoV variant with increased replication capacity in PTEC was selected after four serial subculture passages. This SARS-CoV variant acquired a single nonconservative amino acid change from glutamic acid (E) to alanine (A) at position 11 in the viral membrane (M) protein. The E11A point mutation was sufficient for enhanced SARS-CoV replication and persistence in PTEC when introduced in a SARS-CoV recombinant infectious clone. These findings indicate that human PTEC may represent a site of SARS-CoV productive and persistent replication favoring the emergence of viral variants with increased replication capacity, at least in these kidney cells.

    Not sure if this is useful but thought worth posting just in case.

     

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 7:38pm

    #8
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    1

    What a Guy

    Meet Ralph Baric

    https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article242992686.html

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 7:42pm

    tomsoroe

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    Ralph Baric -- thanks for the thread

    Thanks for the correction and thread.  I found that in my research, which I still have a lot more to do.  The whole "Gain of Function Research" and findings being kept secret really irritates me.  Hope to post more as I dig deeper.  You've given me a great thread to pursue.

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 8:10pm

    #10
    Grover

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    HCQ Hit Job from NPR - Morning Edition 7/8/2020

    I took a friend to an appointment this morning. While waiting in the parking lot, I tuned the radio to NPR. I used to listen quite a bit to NPR while commuting. I hardly ever listen to it anymore now that I'm retired.

    "Morning Edition" was on when I tuned in. As per usual, they said which topics would be discussed during the next half hour at the top of the hour. One of the subjects concerned the coronavirus crisis. That piqued my interest. I thought to myself, "let's see how they present this."

    https://partners.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/07/07/884957449/the-pandemic-is-pushing-scientists-to-rethink-how-they-read-research-papers

    It was presented by Brian Harris. He started talking about science and how the facts should dominate the conversation. It shouldn't matter if a publisher is well known or not as long as the facts support their conclusion. (So far, so good!) Then, there was a minute or so about discussing prominent VS unknown publishers and how we tend to trust prominent individuals. (Why was this included ???) Then, the segue about a paper that came out of China in early May ...

    Jonathan kimmelman,  a professor of biomedical ethics at McGill University was quoted -

    He first asks himself a basic question: Can I trust what I'm reading here?

    "Knowing where a researcher is, or who a researcher is, can be part of establishing that trust," Kimmelman says. "But I do think it harbors some dangers."

    Sometimes the freshest ideas come from young and relatively unknown scientists. And sometimes scientists with big reputations produce flops.

    In the case of coronavirus research, a lot of important results come out of labs he's never heard of, produced by people he doesn't know. So Kimmelman tries to look for signals of quality in the papers themselves.

    He recalls one paper out of China in late March that touted the benefits of hydroxychloroquine, a malaria drug that has been promoted as a possible treatment for COVID-19.

    "This [finding] was pretty quickly taken up by The New York Times, and a number of different experts had fairly positive statements to say about the clinical trial," Kimmelman recalls.

    Rather than diving directly into the data and analysis, Kimmelman first looked at how the researchers had approached their work. Studies involving human beings are supposed to be registered in government databases such as clinicaltrials.gov. There, scientists declare in advance the specific hypothesis they are testing and describe how their experiment is designed.

    In the case of the hydroxychloroquine study, Kimmelman discovered that the reported results had veered significantly from their previously stated experimental plan. "Those struck me as a lot of major red flags," he says. "It probably took me something between 15 minutes and 30 minutes to come to the conclusion that this paper wasn't worth the time of day."

    Sure enough, the promise of hydroxychloroquine as a COVID-19 treatment eventually crumbled, as several larger studies failed to show any benefit. [My bold.]

    I was so angry after hearing this bullshit that I could have eaten nails. They took one little HCQ study that had some identifiable integrity issues and painted all the HCQ treatment studies with the same broad brush. The only conclusion that one of their "thinking" listeners could draw was that HCQ is a worthless treatment option.

    Now that the "cognizant" have been informed, they "know" that there is nothing to be gained by considering HCQ as a treatment option. Why? Because they heard it on NPR.

    This is what we're up against.

    Grover

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 8:22pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Posts: 783

    6

    National Propaganda Radio

    I quit listening to that bullshit years ago.

    It is funded by a smorgasbord of corporations and Foundations.

    I can't believe anybody outside of brain dead liberals (redundancy alert) takes any of the dulcet tone crap seriously

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 8:50pm

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Replying to MM - what a guy

    Quite a piece on the noted Dr. Baric:

    [Dr. Baric's] commitment and expertise is what led to the quick trials and widespread use of remdesivir and other compounds, including a pill called EIDD-2801 [ribonucleoside analog studied in his lab] when the SARS-CoV-2 virus emerged.

    An email from someone that says, ‘Thank you, remdesivir saved my life,’ makes the exhaustion worth it.

    Now a quick comparison of study results:
    Remdesevir in hospitalized patients (multi-center, double blind): Difference in mortality did not reach significance. Primary outcome measure changed to reduced time to discharge from hospital (reduced from about 15 to 11 days on average). Official reaction: " A game changer!" "New standard of care!"

    HCQ in hospitalized patients: Mortality cut in half in hospitalized patients. No significant cardiac side effects. Official reaction: Crickets.
    Regarding standard of care, from NIH website as of today:

    June 16, 2020, Update: On June 15, The Food and Drug Administration revoked the emergency use authorization (EUA) that permitted the use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine donated to the Strategic National Stockpile to treat certain patients with COVID-19. In light of this announcement, the following sections of the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines have been updated to remove the information regarding the EUA:

    • Antiviral Drugs Under Investigation
    • Chloroquine or Hydroxychloroquine
    • Table 2b
    NIH Panel on COVID treatment - financial disclosure of participants
    https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/panel-financial-disclosure/
    The Panel recommends against the use of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19, except in a clinical trial (AII) [emphasis on the website]

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 10:01pm

    #13
    girlflower

    girlflower

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    3

    Covid-19 news from Singapore

    (A)

    "Within a few hours of each other last week, two of the world's most prestigious medical journals - the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) and The Lancet - each retracted an article about treatment of patients with Covid-19.

    The Lancet publication had suggested that hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) increased the risk of death in coronavirus patients.

    Since the findings of both studies could not be substantiated by the authors, the papers were retracted.

    But much damage had already been done."

    - from https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/spotlight-on-trust-in-science-of-covid-19

    (B)

    National University Singapore Launches Large COVID-19 Prophylaxis Study Targeting Ivermectin & HCQ

    https://www.trialsitenews.com/national-university-singapore-launches-large-covid-19-prophylaxis-study-targeting-ivermectin-hcq/

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 3:01am

    #14
    French connexion

    French connexion

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    1

    Remdesivir and Dr Raoult

    Dr Raoult posts a comment on Remdesivir.

    His own comments are very negative about the drug.

    Remdesivir does not heal - worse it causes kidney insufficiencies: on 5 patients treated by this medication at Bachat Hospital Paris, two were put on dialysis.

    When do we get the Discovery results?

    What is the WHO waiting for before reacting?

    Organisation Mondial de Santé = World Health Organization

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 3:14am

    #15
    French connexion

    French connexion

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    1

    Population density or the pleasures of the great outdoors

    https://mapthenews.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/5df19abcf8714bc590a3b143e14a548c

    Since Chris posted a map of  Spain - here is one of France. On the right-hand side you can see concentrations of hospitalized patients - Paris and population density!

    Perhaps even more "parlant" speaking -  visual - is when you touch the réanimation function (ICU) and you see the 0% on most of the rest of the country. In the upper right-hand corner you can click to make this the only presentation on the page. Seine Saint Denis in the north of Paris still in first place with 56% of ICU beds occupided.

    PS  Anyone think that it was a stupid idea to lock us up inside so noone would get infected?

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 4:06am

    #16
    LighthouseBB

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    0

    Link to Island Girl's post?

    Hi

    I'm trying to find this post to read thru the references  - can someone pls direct me?

    thanks

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 4:27am

    #17
    JoshuaGreen

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    Not a slam-dunk

    I was curious how you'd report on that HCQ study, but I must say that I'm disappointed.  You previously said that you were only after the truth, that you took no position on HCQ, yet words like "Vindication!" and your eagerness to accept this result suggest otherwise.

    Lack of zinc has been blamed for negative results in other studies, so how come the results here are believable?  (If a study can't work without zinc, then logically this one shouldn't have worked.)  In fact, the non-randomization provides a few alternative explanations for the results, explanations that you chose to gloss over.  For example, the patients receiving HCQ tended to be younger than those who weren't, and they were the patients who lacked any conditions that would have made HCQ dangerous, e.g., heart conditions, so it's not so surprising that that group fared better.  (Additional limitations are discussed here.)  The authors themselves point all this out and conclude:
    "However, our results should be interpreted with some caution and should not be applied to patients treated outside of hospital settings. Our results also require further confirmation in prospective, randomized controlled trials that rigorously evaluate the safety, and efficacy of hydroxychloroquine therapy for COVID-19 in hospitalized patients.

    Now, I have no intention of criticizing the study.  It seems like good science, and it adds a data point.  It's just not the conclusive evidence that HCQ proponents are making it out to be.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 5:33am

    #18
    dryam2000

    dryam2000

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    Critique of the critique

    Welcome to PP.  Good to see you have created an account today.

    The critique of the HCQ critic is “disappointing” as it goes after Chris M’s integrity in a an unwarranted manner.  The your criticism of the study is valid,  Chris clearly spelled out the study’s limitations during his podcast albeit a little less in-depth as podcast time is limited.   He also stated he wanted better studies on HCQ meaning the jury is still out & there needs to be much more evidence before conclusions can be drawn.  He ran out of time and didn’t even speak about Ivermectin.

    Btw, the study’s authors had to put that nice phrase at the end of their article warning HCQ should not be given outside the hospital setting.  The FDA has been threatening to take away medical licenses from physicians who prescribe HCQ outside the hospital even though HCQ has been widely prescribed around the world to millions of patients for 70+ years.  Curiously, the FDA has not put out blanket warnings on other pharmaceuticals before.  All sorts of medications are prescribed off-label all the time, and many have even more severe potential side effects.  Just 2-3 years ago the WHO (presumably not corrupt then) put out a statement saying how safe HCQ is and that they had no evidence not to prescribe it for malaria prophylaxis, etc.  And, lawyers like doctors writing warnings on things.

    There have been a lot of terrible studies reportedly showing how dangerous the potential side effect of cardiac arrhythmias in patients taking HCQ.  Nearly all of these so-called studies have have been disproven.  Certainly, pre-existing conditions such as cardiac disease raise one’s risk, but the main risk of giving HCQ is in people with advanced symptoms from CV-19.  CV-19 infection directly affects the heart in some, and in others becomes extra irritable from the overall deterioration of patients conditions.  There is no data I’m aware of supporting the so-called dangerous risks if giving HCQ early in CV-19 infection.

    Thanks for the link the study critique.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 7:01am

    #19
    Mary59

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    Vindication Defined

    Vindication is defined "as the fact of proving that what someone said or did was right or true, after other people thought it was wrong."

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/vindication

    Using Merriam-Webster for synonyms

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vindication

    Dr. Chris M's use of the word "vindication"  only demonstrates his precise use of the  English language.

     

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 8:08am

    John Walbeck

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    John Walbeck said:

    Dr. Baric is not happy with Dr. Raoult:

    Remdesivir, developed through a UNC-Chapel Hill partnership, proves effective against COVID-19 in NIAID human clinical trials

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 9:18am

    Jim H

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    To critics

    Vindication is not all about this one study.. it's just a final nail in the coffin of HCQ-negative propaganda that we needed to make the case more forcefully.  I am very glad Chris has taken a strong stand in this way since lives are literally at stake.

    I was at a July 4th backyard BBQ with a few people and we were discussing Covid-19.  When I mentioned hydroxychloroquine one of the buddies of the host chimed in that his brother-in-law in CA had been saved by it.  He said that his brother-in-law was not doing well and was updating his will when he got the medications... and his health turned around very rapidly afterward.  Yes, of course, anecdotal in isolation, but I think this shows that we are starting to turn the corner in the information war, in a  seven degrees of Kevin Bacon way.

    But we have seen this story of healing repeat hundreds and hundreds of times, across many, many doctors reporting through various channels;  clinical data studies by Raoult and Zelenko, Youtube video presentations by the likes of Noel Williams, MD, and personal testimonials like that of Michigan representative Karen Whitsett, who earned the scorn of her political party for thanking Donald Trump for increasing awareness of the drugs benefit.

    For the bigger picture, here is a website that accumulates a living macro-study of studies.  For whatever reason doctors around the world continue to prove, over and over again, that HCQ does not work well as a late-stage disease treatment.  As prophylaxis and early stage treatment, it works, in the words of Dr. Noel Williams, "phenomenally well".

    https://c19study.com/

    On the subject of Zinc... we know that it's important to supplement, but always remember that no added Zinc does not mean zero Zinc.  There will be a variable background of dietary Zinc in all cases.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 9:40am

    Thors Hammer

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    The War on Hydroxychloroquine

    When a patient infected with the Corvid19 virus is admitted to an American hospital they have a 33% chance of being placed in an induced coma and intubated.  Once that treatment is initiated the probability of death is +- 80%.

    The federal guidelines for compensation to the hospital are $35,000 for every patient that is intubated.  If the patient is not placed upon a ventilator the hospital receives only $13,000.  Follow the Money.  The American profit maximization medical system at work.

    By the way, if the same patient presents with the same symptoms at a hospital in Cuba their treatment will be free and their chances of survival will be many times higher than if they are treated in the US.

    Cuba: 86 total deaths.  New York City (2/3 Cuba's population) --17,000+ deaths.

    Income comparison:  (2017 statistics)

    NYC: $70,879 per capita

    Cuba: $8,541

    # of doctors per 10,00 population:

    Cuba: 67.2

    US: 26

    Looks like money can't buy everything!

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 9:52am

    Island girl

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    Singapore study

    Thansk for sharing this encouraging post.Glad this research institution is looking into it.

    But they are testing HCQ alone. Another leg has Zn/Vit C, interesting. No leg with HCQ and Zn. Disappointing, as this is a prophylaxis trial, misses a synergistic effect and Zinc nutritional status may be a confounding factor.

    Being a double-positively charged ion, Zinc would benefit by co-administration of an ionophore to carry it across the cell membrane.

    I am beginning to suspect HCQ may act by more than one mechanism. 1) changing the pH of internal organelles, perhaps interfering with viral assembly; 2) reducing blood clotting, which may be a significant factor late in the disease progression; 3) Zn ionophore, must helpful early to prevent viral expansion, as Zn interferes with replication. Just a hypothesis on my part.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 9:59am

    Island girl

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    IG post on Dr. Baric's research

    Here is a link

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/covid-19-half-a-million-dead-and-rising/

    Post number 54.

    Be advised that the researcher cited is Dr. Ralph S Baric, not Robert, it was my mistake. I have corrected the original post but sadly did not anticipate it would make it to a video, should have checked the name before posting. My apologies.

    Dr. Baric is at the University of North Carolina and his colleague in GOF research at Wuhan institute of Technology is Dr. Shi. I believe in China the surname name is first, so you may see her surname first or last depending on the source - Shi Zhengli is according to Chinese custom, I believe.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 10:12am

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Remdesevir

    Recovery is defined as: leaving the hospital in 11 days instead of 15 days, on average. Among survivors, as difference in mortality did not reach significance.

    Lots of reasons people get discharged from hospital early, especially in a multi-center environment. Just saying.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 10:15am

    Jim H

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    There's no doubt HCQ inhibits the virus through multiple pathways

    Here is how Dr. Shiva A., MIT Biological Engineering PhD and developer of CytoSolve depicted it in early May;

    We knew from the earliest in-vitro studies of infected cells that HCQ (along with Remdesivir) inhibited viral replication.. what was really cool I thought was the later data that came out showing that there was also dose-dependent inhibition of cellular entry via ACE2, which of course is a completely separate and complimentary mode of action.  HCQ is in a sense a single molecule, "cocktail".

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 10:51am

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    7

    Reply to JoshuaGreen re the critique of Henry Ford Hospital Study

    Welcome to the forum. I see you joined today.

    The editorial critique of the HRH study on HCQ that you cite was written by several co-authors on a study of HCQ prophylaxis published in NEJM. That study on post-exposure prophylaxis concluded that HCQ made no difference to incidence of COVID cases in those who believe they were exposed.  It was hailed in the media as the best controlled study on HCQ.

    That particular study had several limitations, reviewed by Dr. Martenson on this site. One of these is that the COVID cases were largely self-diagnosed and diagnostic criteria were quite broad (e.g. having a cough, period.) Testing was not widely available at the time, so <3% had a laboratory confirmed diagnosis. They did what they could under the circumstances. It is not the definitive study it was made out to be.

    You can read the study yourself or watch Dr. Martenson's video on the subject. Dr. Martenson has done yeoman's service in following and analyzing the evidence as it becomes available. I frankly don't know how he does it, it is an enormous effort to review these things and put together these videos almost in real time.

    Now as to the critique that you site, it was posted by other community members. Having read it, I went back to the HFH study article to address what I see as the major limitation they point out - the difference in use of steroids in the treatment groups.

    I cited from their Methods section what I perceive was done by HFH investigators to address the limitations. If anyone in this community has the statistical expertise to evaluate it in detail, perhaps you can educate us on whether the methods used were adequate. The authors of the critique do not mention what was done to address confounding factors and should have.

    My detailed comments on the the critique you cite can be found here, post #8:

    https://www.peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/re-covid-19-vindication-hcq-ivermectin-work/

    I think you misunderstand the role of Zinc in combination with HCQ. The claim is not that HCQ "won't work without Zinc". HCQ may have more than one mechanism of action. I can think of at least three, as noted in another post. Late in the disease, for example, it may help relieve some of the clotting disorder associated with COVID. This is a hypothesis on my part, based on anti-thrombotic effects in people with lupus

    https://www.lupus.org/resources/antiphospholipid-syndrome-evaluating-current-treatment-options

    On the other hand, if administered with Zinc early in the course of the disease, it may facilitate Zn 2+ entry into the cell by acting as an ionophore. Once in the cell, Zinc ions may  interfere with virus replication, helping to halt the exponential expansion of virus.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 11:11am

    Island girl

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    Reply to cautionary note in paper on HFH study

    @JoshuaGreen

    This could be the reason for the cautionary note about use in a hospital setting:

    https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/whats-new/

    I quote from the NIH guidelines:

    Chloroquine or Hydroxychloroquine

    • The Panel recommends against the use of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19, except in a clinical trial (AII).

     

     

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 11:17am

    Steve

    Steve

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    Youtube removed Brian C Proctor's video

    Looks like youtube has removed Brian C. Proctor MD's video referencing his success with HCQ in the early stages of treatment.  Imagine that!

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 11:40am

    Jim H

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    Here it is reposted... Powerful!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qUuD34Y6Pk

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 11:41am

    JoshuaGreen

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    clarifying my thoughts

    Thanks for the welcome and responses.  (And true, I never felt like leaving a comment before, hence I had no reason to create an account.  Feel free to infer what you'd like from that.)

    I haven't watched all of Chris's videos, but I've seen him dissect other studies in gory detail, listing all of their claims and flaws.  (For example, see the video where he covered the study "A Randomized Trial of Hydroxychloroquine as Postexposure Prophylaxis for Covid-19," a randomized study that didn't find an effect.)  He didn't seem to do that here, as far as I could tell.  Instead, he described the study, noted that it was non-randomized and that he wanted better studies with zinc, and ... that seemed to be about it.  I didn't catch any mention of the specific objections that have been leveled (or described by the authors), and I had really hoped to learn what he thought of them.  That's what I found disappointing -- not Chris in general, just in the way he handled this study in comparison to some others.  Perhaps he just ran out of time, but leaving out that particular information while moving on to other topics -- implying that he had presented everything he wanted with regard to the study -- seemed, to me, a bit conspicuous.

    With regard to "vindication," though it might have weaker connotations, I would generally use it to mean "See, I've been saying this the whole time, and you didn't believe me, but now this proves I was correct."  If Chris has been arguing this whole time that HCQ is an effective treatment then I'll partially retract that particular remark as "Vindicated!" would kind of fit, though the flaws in the study would have to be acknowledged.  However, that seems inconsistent with the position that he honestly doesn't know whether or not HCQ works, that the studies done so far haven't been ideal, and that he simply wants better studies to reveal the truth.

    Personally, I agree that the evidence of HCQ danger is unconvincing.  If a doctor agrees to prescribe it knowing the patient, then I doubt it will make things worse.  (On the other hand, it shouldn't be blindly prescribed to everyone.  I suspect the potential demand for that is what forced the FDA to put out such a warning.)  Evidence of efficacy is still underwhelming (though more convincing than the evidence of danger), and the above suggests that trials should continue -- it should be safe -- and that people should be allowed to use it outside of trials if they want to and their doctor(s) approve.

    Also, my comment about zinc was admittedly somewhat snarky, but I stand by my point.  For a long time studies without zinc have been simply dismissed -- of course they didn't show results!  I don't see why we shouldn't say the same thing here -- of course this shouldn't have shown results, so the apparent results must be caused by something other than HCQ.  I don't really subscribe to that strawman, but it's already been used to ignore other research so we should at least be consistent.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 11:49am

    #32
    JoshuaGreen

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    still researching

    I started writing my above response before many of the above comments came in.  I see that you're all trying to answer my questions & concerns, and I thank you for that.  I'll try to read through all this additional information later, but I unfortunately don't have time right now.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 12:08pm

    mmckay

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    Question for Dr. Procter

    My wife has an extremely rare neuromuscular disease similar to ALS/MS.  I've been following this whole controversy from the start, so don't need basic data.  I'm asking what protocol would be appropriate for her if she becomes infected.  Not asking for medical advice, not interested in a lawsuit!  Just some decent facts in this age of Luciferian/Deep State/WROL era.

     

    Thanks so much!

     

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 12:09pm

    Mohammed Mast

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    Island Girl reply to J Green

    Mostly in these studies there is no mention of Zinc. It is well known that Zinc is the bullet and HCQ the gun. (thank you Dr. Zelenko) There is no mention in any study I have seen of micronutrient testing. There is no addition of zinc but that does not rule out the possibility that people have sufficient therapeutic levels already, even though many are zinc deficient.

    There is lots of lab work done but we just don't know the extent. It is good to realize in hospitals dealing with SC2 it is pretty much asses and elbows. Dr.'s are flying by the seat of their pants in most situations.

    As Chris and others have said many times, we need a randomized , double blind study with HCQ +n Zinc administered early. Currently the standard of care is as follows.

    1- have symptoms go to doctor get tested wait 24 hours

    2- if it is positive go home and wait till it gets worse.

    3 - it gets worse go to hospital.

    4- receive palliative care

    5- if you end up on oxygen you might get remdesivir

    6- you might get steroids

    7- if none of that works ICU.

    8- intubated with a 90% chance of dying.

    Or Alternative treatment

    1- Have symptoms, go to doctor, get tested. Get ECG to find out what your QTc interval is

    2- go home and start HCQ+zinc with zpack optional

    You should know ahead of time what the contraindications are for the latter treatment. . If you QTc interval is 500 or above do not take HCQ. If it is 460-500 take it while being monitored. If it is below 460 stay home watch movies for 5 days.

    In a country where you have certain inalienable right like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness option 2 is a no brainer. If you are in the US you are out of luck. Costa Rica? No problemo

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 1:18pm

    #35
    dryam2000

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    mmckay

    mmckay,

    First, I absolutely would not seek any specific medical advice on the internet regarding your wife.  Second, I would arrange a telephone conference with her primary neurologist to discuss the potential eventuality that your wife does become infected.  Have a plan clearly in place well ahead of time.  If she ever developed any symptoms, then an immediate call to the neurologist should be in order. Without knowing the specifics about your wife My suspicion is that she would stratify out into the high risk category, but have no way of knowing for sure not being part of her medical team.

    Again, do not seek specific medical advice on the internet.  I would think all of the prophylactic over the counter medicines discussed on this site should be ok such as vitamin C, zinc, etc., but there can be nuances that can be problematic depending on medications someone already takes.  I would run these supplements by your neurologist or internist for completeness.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 5:40pm

    Hladini

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    Yeah, What a guy alright

    MM - thanks for posting.  The false accolades are nauseating.  Not one mention of gain-of-fucking-research.  Don't you love how they called his work "prophetic?"  Yes.  You idiots.  It's only a matter of time before such "research" loses its containment, whether by accident, design, or sabotage.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 6:24pm

    JoshuaGreen

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    replying to -- basically agreeing with -- Island Girl

    I absolutely agree that your "Alternative treatment" should be an option for anyone who's interested, provided (as you suggested) that there are no contraindications.  Were I in such a situation and given the option, I'd probably give HCQ a try.  Not because I'm convinced it will help -- we still need better trials, as you and others including Chris have noted -- but because it plausibly might and seems incredibly unlikely to make things worse.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 6:33pm

    JoshuaGreen

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    Re: Reply to cautionary note in paper on HFH study

    The CDC gives the rationale for that recommendation here.  It will take some time to read through, and I'm not yet sure whether a recommendation against really means "please don't use this" or just "we aren't formally recommending that you use this."

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 6:51pm

    Island girl

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    Guideliines

    This is what they highlight

    Given the risk of dysrhythmias, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) cautions against the use of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19 outside of a hospital or clinical trial

    Thye also give their own review of all the studies. That will take some time to read.

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 7:50pm

    Mohammed Mast

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    Suggestions

    It seems you are new here and I don't know how much you have read before posting.

    I have posted numerous times ideas to prepare for the eventuality you get SC2.  Chris's new video which has not been loaded to the site has a case history of a woman who contracted it a 2nd time. Chris did not do a very good job with the interview. As sometimes happens interviewers get into their own track and forget about the asking of questions. That said the husband , Adam, did offer some advice.

    By way of suggestions I will say what I have done.

    1- secure food for long term, expand garden

    2- secure ppe, cleaning, disinfectant etc.

    3- contact 4 of my doctors. get feedback on HCQ, Get ECG. Get bloodwork, assess Vit D level (95), Get Spectracell analysis (awaiting results). Find out from PCP what would happen if I tested +. (see scenario above) 3 of 4 docs would prescribe HCQ, 4th was not asked to but likely would)

    4 - Stockpile necessary supplements, Zinc, Quercitin, Vit C ,Vit D, Selenium, NAC, Colloidal Silver, Chayawanprash, Elderberry syrup.

    5- study, here, Medcram, online searches, network. I asked lots of people who had taken HCQ what their experience was like.

    6- Order HCQ. 1st attempt failed. FDA pulled EAU so docs could no longer prescribe. 2nd attempt successful for Chloroquine. Also secured Cinchona bark.

    7- continue with all preps.

    I starting preparing for this in 1968. I organized my life around the premise that the extant paradigm was likely going extinct. There have been some setbacks but the basic program has proceeded.

    BTW I think your criticisms have some validity. The newest video was disappointing. He did not mention Ivermectin after not mentioning it when it was in the title Tuesday. The new one is short on data and long on anecdote.

     

     

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  • Thu, Jul 09, 2020 - 8:19pm

    #41
    MayS

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    What about Ivermectin?

    The title mentions Ivermectin, but I didn't notice any mention of it in the video. It's something I am very interested in hearing more about.

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  • Fri, Jul 10, 2020 - 7:12am

    #42
    tbp

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    tbp said:

    @French connexion
    PS Anyone think that it was a stupid idea to lock us up inside so noone would get infected?

    Yeah, absolutely. In my country we were already doing social distancing and staying home before the criminal government declared nationwide lockdowns.

    @JoshuaGreen
    Lack of zinc has been blamed for negative results in other studies, so how come the results here are believable? (If a study can't work without zinc, then logically this one shouldn't have worked.)

    Nah, that's silly, cuz the body already has some zinc ions floating around. Your zinc levels aren't 0 when taking HCQ. It's like when clowns or dishonest pharma operatives do vitamin D trials under the absurd assumption that participants all have a baseline of 0 vitamin D, because that's the default for drugs (and then give them tiny doses and conclude it's not effective!).

    Evidence of efficacy [of HCQ] is still underwhelming (though more convincing than the evidence of danger)

    No it's not -- we have more than enough real-world evidence. It's only underwhelming if you're a believer in scientism and need multiple peer-reviewed and meta-studies to "confirm", while discarding all the anecdotal + clinical evidence that already confirms. This makes even less sense when you have a criminal pharma cartel dominating the "global health" space and doing their best to suppress effective cures in order to promote their ineffective antivirals and toxic trojan-horsed/adjuvanted vaccines.

    Also, my comment about zinc was admittedly somewhat snarky, but I stand by my point. For a long time studies without zinc have been simply dismissed -- of course they didn't show results! I don't see why we shouldn't say the same thing here -- of course this shouldn't have shown results, so the apparent results must be caused by something other than HCQ. I don't really subscribe to that strawman, but it's already been used to ignore other research so we should at least be consistent.

    Of course it should've shown results! The #1 factor for HCQ is whether it's used early in the disease progression rather than late, and zinc co-administration is #2. The fraudulent studies omit both, not just zinc.

    @mmckay
    My wife has an extremely rare neuromuscular disease similar to ALS/MS. I've been following this whole controversy from the start, so don't need basic data. I'm asking what protocol would be appropriate for her if she becomes infected. Not asking for medical advice, not interested in a lawsuit! Just some decent facts in this age of Luciferian/Deep State/WROL era.

    Consider dryam2000's tips, but also consider that doctors often don't really have a clue about what they're doing beyond their tiny bubble/paradigm of "if this, then that drug" they were taught in medical school. There are many good doctors, but unfortunately they are a minority. It can ultimately only be up to you to figure out your own health (or your wife's). I can tell you very little about MS and even less about ALS as I haven't researched these conditions, but my best guess is that research published on the Internet by people affected and the best doctors in the world vastly outranks the info/paradigm your doctor is operating under.

    I'd go with the simplest prophylactic protocol as of now:

    - Vitamin D (abundant sunshine exposure on skin, and/or 10,000-40,000 IU/day for a few days to correct an existing deficiency, or 5000IU/day as maintenance)
    - Vitamin C (0.5-1g 1-2 times a day as maintenance, or 2-4g 2-4 times a day to fight an infection or toxic insult)
    - zinc + zinc ionophore (HCQ or quercetin) if you suspect you could be infected
    - animal-derived protein and saturated fat (comes with fat-soluble vitamins A, E, K, all 5 lacking in vegan diets)

    She probably could take all of these already (except HCQ) in maintenance doses without any issues... But I would nonetheless first research what others (non-mainstream i.e. beyond what Wikipedia says) have found about your wife's extremely rare neuromuscular disease and/or ALS/MS if it's so rare that little research has been done. My hunch is that demyelinating disease has to do with excitotoxicity from excessive glutamatergic or dysfunctional GABAergic neurotransmission, for which NMDA antagonists like magnesium, memantine, and ketamine might be useful, but it's just a guess based on my own experiences with trashing my myelin sheeths during my youth (earlier youth). You know about the Deep State, so you're already a researcher!

     

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  • Fri, Jul 10, 2020 - 7:48am

    #43
    drbrucedale

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    5000 plus people tested and no dysrhythmias

    Between this Henry Ford study and the publication by Didier Raoult, et al, we now have well over 5000 people treated with HCQ and not a single heart dysrhythmia reported while being monitored for that very condition.  Not one person.

    Remember when the corporate media told us, months ago, how dangerous HCQ was?  Any chance they will retract and apologize?  Silly me... I know the answer.

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  • Fri, Jul 10, 2020 - 10:04am

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Spectracell analysis

    I'd like to get micronutrient analysis done. Do I need to find a functional med doc who is not skeptical of this stuff to do the blood draw and order the test?

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  • Fri, Jul 10, 2020 - 11:03am

    Mohammed Mast

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    Spectracell

    Hey IG you can go to spectracell.com. There is a list of providers and draw sites. My new pcp was willing to do it but his office couldn't figure out the protocol. (they are extremely busy as they are urgent care as well). You can call Spectracell and they are very helpful. Fortunately my old doc who is retired is still listed by them and I was able to get him to do it.

    Check with your insurance company to find out if they will pay for it, Mine (humana) said they are waiving copays during the pandemic and if a doctor orders it they will pay for it. Your doctor can draw the blood and open an account with them online and Fedex the sample to them overnight. On the website they say the turnaround is 10-14 days . It used to be quicker but they are also doing covid tests now.

    A functional medical practitioner does not have to be a MD. They can be Chiropractors, NA, Np's etc. Just find one who is aware of nutrition if your PCP isn't. The website for Functional Medicine has a provider tool to find one in your area.

    https://www.ifm.org/functional-medicine/what-is-functional-medicine/

    You can PM with any questions

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  • Fri, Jul 10, 2020 - 12:10pm

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Spectracell - much appreciated

    Thanks so much, MM.

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  • Fri, Jul 10, 2020 - 8:10pm

    #47
    Hladini

    Hladini

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    Dr. Zelenco/Bi-Weekly Briefing

    Chris, you may want to use this letter from Dr. Zelenco in your briefings which can be found here:  https://spectator.org/the-20-solution-to-coronavirus-anecdotal-evidence-is-a-life-saver/

    Dr. Zelenco is a treating physician in NY and has had astounding success in treating Covid19 patients with HCQ, Zinc, and azythramycine - "early and hard."  Dr. Brian Proctor in McKinney, TX is also  successfully treating patients with the same cocktail, early on.  It's a $50 treatment.

    And effin Fauci has known this cocktail worked since August 22, 2005. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

    You know what my mom would say about Fauci?  "Motherfucker" (sorry, it's true)

    He is a crimes against humanity kind of criminal.  So what kind of criminal does that make the Fed?

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  • Thu, Jul 16, 2020 - 2:16pm

    #48
    Rolandrock

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    Living in the Ozarks. Won't prescribe anti virals?

    All your talk about anti-virals is great but no Dr will prescribe. Liability issues with unapproved treatments. Confirmed positive yesterday. How do I get HCQ?

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  • Thu, Jul 16, 2020 - 3:20pm

    Rolandrock

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    Nice Sentiment

    If you can't find a Doctor to do outpatient treatment in your area, then what? The rural health system is a corporate sham. Anything that may be deemed as a liability is NOT ALLOWED. 

    I have skin in the game now. Confirmed positive yesterday. 

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  • Thu, Jul 16, 2020 - 3:31pm

    Mohammed Mast

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    Roland

    You can get Ivermectin from a Vet supply store.

    HCQ you will have to find a doc who will prescribe it for lupus or rheumatoid arthritis. HCQ has many uses in Dermatology so you can check with a Dermatologist.

    You can go online to Indiamart.com and order it online. Look up Peggy's post in the forums (current events). She posted the link there . She has ordered it but I don't know if she got it yet.

    You can go to riverpharmacy.ca and get Chloroquine which is an earlier version of HCQ. It has a slightly higher toxicity profile but is a zinc ionophore. It takes about 4 or 5 weeks.

    In the meantime there are a number of other zinc ionophores which are readily available. Quercitin, Green tea and cinchona bark are all zinc ionophores that are perfectly legal.

    Getting your Vit D levels up and eliminating sugar are 2 really important things to do. Should you find HCQ or Chloroquine have an ECG done and check with your doctor there are contraindications

    Disclaimer; none of this should be viewed as medical advice. Remember you are on your own.

     

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  • Thu, Jul 16, 2020 - 4:49pm

    Grover

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    Not Quite HCQ

    Roland,

    I eat foods rich in zinc and drink a gin and tonic a few times a week. Tonic water contains a minor amount of quinine. The US FDA allows up to 83 parts per million of the soda to be quinine. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323692#is-quinine-safe.

    Do some reading on Ivermectin. There's a post on one of the threads today or yesterday about dosing. I don't remember the particulars or who posted it; however, based on a 90 Kg (~200 lbs) human, one gram of 1.87% horse paste would be the dosage. (Frankly, if you just rely on my memory here, you are a fool. Do your own due diligence!)

    Grover

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  • Thu, Jul 16, 2020 - 6:06pm

    #52

    sand_puppy

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    RolandRock: Getting Hydroxychloroquine

    A local doctor (who is willing) can call a prescription for hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) in to CanadaCloudPharmacy.com, a small brick and mortar pharmacy in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.  Ask to talk with Brian or Anthony if available as I have had discussions with them and they understand that there is good evidence supporting the off-label use of HCQ for COVID.

    They have no professional society or legal prohibitions for dispensing HCQ for COVID.

    However, it takes a week to ship to US addresses and even if you found a doctor to do this today it won't arrive in a timely manner.

    I agree with Grover and Mohammed that it would be good to start the other zinc supplements and zinc ionophores immediately.  (And everybody else--GET YOUR HCQ BEFORE YOU NEED IT.)

    Quercitin (2 twice daily) by Thorne Research would probably be a good one. Or this one by pure encapsulations.

    ECGC (Green tea extract, epigallocatechin-3-gallate) such as contained in the combination product Botanical Treasures by Natura.

    Don't for get Zinc Picolinate like this product or this one.

    Most can be purchased in a health food store and other retailers online.

    I am not aware of any comparisons of the effectiveness of the different Zinc ionophores mentioned here.

    In addition, HCQ has a number of other mechanisms besides the zinc ionophore one, by which it inhibits the SARS-CoV2 virus uptake and replication.  In addition it modulates immune responses (reducing TNF-alpha and IL-6, for example) and reduce the excessive clotting of phospholipid syndrome (a part of some rheumatologic diseases).  So HCQ would be recommended by me when it becomes available even while taking Quercitin and ECGC.

    Good luck on finding a doctor who can and will prescribe and I hope you don't live in a state with emergency orders from the governor prohibiting pharmacists in your state from filling HCQ prescriptions for COVID (an unheard of event).

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  • Fri, Jul 17, 2020 - 7:31am

    Rolandrock

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    Bidens Pilosi

    After 3 days in and tired of arguing with know nothing corporate Docs, I have so far only progressed to a chest cold. 

    Takin the bull by the horns I dug my Bidens Pilosi tincture out of the cubboard and have been taking 1 Tblspoon 3x daily. Bidens is an anti-malarial weed found growing all over the temperate regions of the world. Still had this from 2 years ago when I had to cure an anaplasmosis condition aquired from a tick bite in Virginia. 

    I will post daily updates on my progress. 

    It is a shame that the medical profession in this country have turned into the most highly paid Quacks. 

    And thank you to all that have contributed such valuable info to the fight.

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  • Fri, Jul 17, 2020 - 8:00pm

    Grover

    Grover

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    Antimalarials

    At first, I thought that this was a political pun on one of the US Presidential candidates and the Speaker of the House. So, I looked up Bidens pilosa on DuckDuckGo.com and this came up in the search engine results: https://earthmedicineinstitute.com/more/library/medicinal-plants/bidens-pilosa/

    The "Western Functions Reported" has a long list of functions. The one that caught my eye was "antimalarial." There are other antimalarial agents like Hydroxychloroquine that are effective against Sars-Cov2. I wonder what is it that makes these antimalarial agents good candidates to suppress SC2? Are there other antimalarial agents that we should consider?

    Grover

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  • Sat, Jul 18, 2020 - 6:12am

    #55
    Cj Sloane

    Cj Sloane

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    Hydroxychloroquine in Nonhospitalized Adults With Early COVID-19 A Randomized Trial

    https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-4207

    Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial conducted from 22 March through 20 May 2020. (ClinicalTrials.gov: NCT04308668)

    Oral hydroxychloroquine (800 mg once, followed by 600 mg in 6 to 8 hours, then 600 mg daily for 4 more days) or masked placebo.

    Results:

    Of 491 patients randomly assigned to a group, 423 contributed primary end point data. Of these, 341 (81%) had laboratory-confirmed infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) or epidemiologically linked exposure to a person with laboratory-confirmed infection; 56% (236 of 423) were enrolled within 1 day of symptoms starting. Change in symptom severity over 14 days did not differ between the hydroxychloroquine and placebo groups (difference in symptom severity: relative, 12%; absolute, −0.27 points [95% CI, −0.61 to 0.07 points]; P = 0.117). At 14 days, 24% (49 of 201) of participants receiving hydroxychloroquine had ongoing symptoms compared with 30% (59 of 194) receiving placebo (P = 0.21). Medication adverse effects occurred in 43% (92 of 212) of participants receiving hydroxychloroquine versus 22% (46 of 211) receiving placebo (P < 0.001). With placebo, 10 hospitalizations occurred (2 non–COVID-19–related), including 1 hospitalized death. With hydroxychloroquine, 4 hospitalizations occurred plus 1 nonhospitalized death (P = 0.29).

     

    They have a 3rd leg of the trial which looks good - to check for HCQ use as a prophylactic

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  • Sat, Jul 18, 2020 - 8:55am

    #56
    jerryr

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    RE: Boulware's HCQ trial in nonhospitalized adults

    Just like Boulware's post exposure prophylactic study, the most surprising thing is the low, low rate of problems in the placebo group. Only one death and 10 hospitalizations out of 211 patients. The patients were young (interquartile range 32 to 50) and mostly healthy. Symptoms cleared faster and there were half the number of hospitalizations in the HCQ group, but the study was too small for this to be a statistically significant result.

    The study participants were asked about whether they were taking zinc or vitamin C. There was no difference in the results based on this aspect.

    Presumably, Boulware also used folic acid as placebo in this study, as in his other one. HCQ and folic acid, both covid-19 wonder drugs? I suppose it's possible.

    The earlier study showed that most subjects exposed to covid-19 didn't catch the disease, and this one is showing that hospitalization rates and fatality rates among those that do get sick are also very low.

    So what's been going on in hot spots where the disease is causing such high fatality rates, and reportedly overwhelming hospital systems? And what about these anecdotal reports of longterm suffering, or severe organ damage even in asymptomatic patients? Something isn't adding up here.

     

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  • Sat, Jul 18, 2020 - 9:02am

    Jim H

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    Yes Boulware used folate once again as "placebo" in the vast majority of these subjects

    https://twitter.com/Arkancideisreal/status/1284425842613817349

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  • Sat, Jul 18, 2020 - 9:48am

    stevedaly

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    CJ this is the Minnesota study.

    HCQ was administered at twice the dosage or more than what Didier Raoult was using for his 1000 plus French patients with great success.  As expressed so well in Peak Performance comments, there were enough patients dropping out to make the results statistically insignificant.

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  • Mon, Jul 27, 2020 - 7:18pm

    #59
    AcadieQuebec

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    5

    “White Coat Summit” on Capitol Hill: Hydroxychloroquine and zinc effective at preventing and treating Covid-19

    Monday July 27 - Frontline Doctors Whitecoat Summit
    American doctors held a “White Coat Summit” on Capitol Hill to address what they call “a massive disinformation campaign” surrounding Hydroxychloroquine and Zinc
    - here is a shorter segment of it posted on Vimeo
    - as well as a related article published in the Washington Examiner dated July 22, 2020
    https://vimeo.com/442249712

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/yale-epidemiologist-says-hydroxychloroquine-could-save-up-to-100k-lives-if-used-for-coronavirus

     

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  • Mon, Jul 27, 2020 - 8:03pm

    #60
    Westxmom

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    Westxmom said:

    I started a new discussion started regarding this "White Coat Summit" this evening at...

    America’s Frontline Doctors White Coat Summit

     

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  • Mon, Jul 27, 2020 - 8:08pm

    Mohammed Mast

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    Juliette AAAAAAA+

    WOW. Great find.

    Thank You

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  • Mon, Jul 27, 2020 - 9:03pm

    Redneck Engineer

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    Redneck Engineer said:

    Video removed for violating YT’s terms of service...

    sigh.

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  • Mon, Jul 27, 2020 - 9:47pm

    Island girl

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    This coudl be pertinent - astroturf vs grass roots

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU

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  • Mon, Jul 27, 2020 - 10:09pm

    nordicjack

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    I wonder exactly wha terms of service they violated?

    That actual healthcare and welfare is more important than the agenda of those powers that be - and the wealth of the mega rich and mega powerful?

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  • Mon, Jul 27, 2020 - 10:36pm

    AcadieQuebec

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    Youtube censored the video - Doctors on Capitol Hill - Found it on Vimeo

    Hi ''Redneck Engineer'' and ''Nordicjack''
    as we can see, Youtube does not take kindly to hearing differing opinions about Hydroxychloroquine and Zinc used to prevent and or treat Covid 19
    Luckily I found the video of the doctors denouncing the 'campaign of disinformation' posted on this other platform called Vimeo:
    https://vimeo.com/442249712

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  • Tue, Jul 28, 2020 - 9:56am

    summitday113

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    summitday113 said:

    I know this physician. (well, I haven't yet met her in person but I've had private conversations with her on Facebook as well as in several facebook groups for physicians). She is being targeted. Facebook took down her profile today.  When I saw her video was being taken down I recorded it on my own phone just to make sure copies were preserved. She is not going to back down. She fought facebook and they restored her profile about 30 minutes ago.

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  • Tue, Jul 28, 2020 - 4:32pm

    drbrucedale

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    Everyone should post this video, tweet it and share it as widely as possible...

    PP Tribe,

    We should all be posting this on our Facebook pages (I just did), sharing it with our friends and writing our Congresscritters...I invite you not to go to bed before doing so.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/07/28/watch-live-silenced-frontline-doctors-hold-capitol-hill-press-conference-to-challenge-big-tech/

    Bruce

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  • Tue, Jul 28, 2020 - 5:38pm

    drbrucedale

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    HCQ in one month from India Mart--thank you Peggy

    You can get HCQ from IndiaMart.com in one month (I just did), no prescription needed. The manufacturer is Zydus Synovia...a very reputable pharmaceutical outfit. (I checked them out.)

    Thank you, thank you, tribe member Peggy for suggesting IndiaMart.com. We are not on our own when we participate in this PP tribe. We have each other's backs.

    My order was filled in two days, shipped immediately and then spent over three weeks in U.S. Customs before being forwarded to me. Total cost including shipping and fees was about $0.28 per 200 milligram dose. Assuming 14 doses are enough for a full course of treatment (with zinc) that is about $4 bucks total for the HCQ.

    No conspiracies, I am sure. Nope, just a total accident that Remdesivir doesn't really work and costs about $2,400.  Right...

    search parameters

    Hmmm...even with text sharpening, this is not very clear.  Anyway, type in IndiaMart.com in your browser, then select Nagpur as the city on the IndiaMart.com web page, then type in "hydroxychloroquine sulfate 400 mg tablets" and hit the search button. No prescription needed.

    The supplier is S. A. Enterprises and they will recommend that you use a payment method called transferwise.com.  I did so...very easy. I worked with a Sunil Phalke at S. A. Enterprises. Here is Sunil's contact information.

    I have now put aside enough HCQ to treat my family and friends...if some of them can ever get over their fear of HCQ. Thanks very much, fake media. You have a lot of blood on your hands.

    S. A. ENTERPRISES
    Email: [email protected]
    Phone: +918983279179 (WhatsApp)

    Sunil Phalke

     

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  • Tue, Jul 28, 2020 - 8:40pm

    pinecarr

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    Question re HCQ order

    Hi drbrucedale!

    I'm just curious why you ordered 400 mg tablets of the hydroxychloroquine sulfate vs 200 mg., the recommended dosage size.

    Thanks for the information sharing in this thread, everyone; it is greatly appreciated!

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  • Tue, Jul 28, 2020 - 10:19pm

    Mpup

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    All lives matter thank you drbrucedale

    Everyone should be sending this link:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/07/28/watch-live-silenced-frontline-doctors-hold-capitol-hill-press-conference-to-challenge-big-tech/

    to their "representatives" requesting HCQ/Plaquenil be made readily available.   I've already done this have you?   Also send this to your physician.   Just do it.

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 2:57am

    drbrucedale

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    6

    why 400 mg tablets?

    I ordered the 400 mg tablets because: 1) they were available without a prescription, and I wanted to be able to say that to anyone who asked, 2) they were from a manufacturer that I had researched and trust, 3) they were a bit cheaper per dose than the 200 mg tablets (I am a tightwad), 4) they are bottled, rather than blister-packed and it is easier for me to manipulate a bottle than a blister pack (I have some stiffness in my hands) and 5) I already have a pill splitter.  🙂

    But by all means, if you want to use 200 mg tablets, please do so.

    Hope this helps.

    Bruce

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 5:04am

    #72
    thesecuritygirl

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    HELP NEEDED... POTENTIAL COVID... should i take HCQ or no???

    PP Community... i want to thank you because, without you, Chris or Adam, I would be lost.  I have been in isolation since Feb but receiving groceries etc for survival by mail.  In the last week, i developed a mild cough and mild lump in throat (kinda like you have a buildup of phlem you can't swallow).  I do not want a Covid test as I do not trust the authorities running the tests.  Also, the only doctor i have consulted with is online and they did allow me a script for HCQ.  I'm assuming I have exposure since I don't really know what else I could have.  My heart rate is perfect and so is my health.  No comorbidities.  Given Chris' research around long term Covid damage i'm afraid of not taking HCQ yet i have fears of taking it as well.  The pills sit on my counter for now...........  it's approx one week with cough (it is VERY mild).  What would my PP community do.... should I go ahead and just take the pills?  Would you?  If so, what kind of dosage would you take?  Sandpuppy had suggested that my symptoms don't sound like Covid but who knows as these symptoms all seem to change by the hour?  Feeling confused and distressed!  HELP!

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 5:49am

    #73
    US Strength

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    Heated Vaccine Debate - Kennedy Jr. vs Dershowitz - Absolute Must See. Kennedy guts him. And surprisingly, Dershowitz seems persuaded - first time I see humanity in Dershowitz. RFK Jr. & Chris Martenson together - that would be great to see.

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 7:17am

    #74
    tbp

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    Kennedy Jr brilliant!; Have mild symptoms, should I use HCQ?

    ^ Yep, agreed, this one's really great, the first time I've seen humanity in Dershowitz too... and then you realize it's only because Kennedy is a Democrat.

     

    @thesecuritygirl
    PP Community... i want to thank you because, without you, Chris or Adam, I would be lost. I have been in isolation since Feb but receiving groceries etc for survival by mail. In the last week, i developed a mild cough and mild lump in throat (kinda like you have a buildup of phlem you can't swallow). I do not want a Covid test as I do not trust the authorities running the tests. Also, the only doctor i have consulted with is online and they did allow me a script for HCQ. I'm assuming I have exposure since I don't really know what else I could have. My heart rate is perfect and so is my health. No comorbidities. Given Chris' research around long term Covid damage i'm afraid of not taking HCQ yet i have fears of taking it as well. The pills sit on my counter for now........... it's approx one week with cough (it is VERY mild). What would my PP community do.... should I go ahead and just take the pills? Would you? If so, what kind of dosage would you take? Sandpuppy had suggested that my symptoms don't sound like Covid but who knows as these symptoms all seem to change by the hour? Feeling confused and distressed! HELP!

    If you already have HCQ sitting there... take at least a lower dose (I think the pills come in 100mg or 200mg, while a high dose is 600mg) along with zinc... or you can take quercetin+EGCG+zinc (natural zinc ionophores with virtually no side-effects, but may be less powerful). Even more important is to ensure your vitamin D levels are high (abundant daily sunshine or else 5000-40000 IU/day supplementation). Take vitamin C (1-3g 1-3 times a day), NAC, vitamin B3, ensure you're getting absorbable protein and saturated fat (and the accompanying fat-soluble vitamins A, E, K) from high-quality animal sources... You can also use CDS (don't use at the same time as vitamin C or NAC).

    But most importantly, realize that a fearful mindset puts you into a chronic stress biological situation of elevated cortisol levels which attenuates your immune system (because you need to run from or fight the threat, so you don't need healing processes or an immune system right now, biologically speaking). It will also attract negative scenarios that are of a compatible/similar type/vibrational resonance. You also need exposure to germs to maintain a functional immune system... staying locked inside is no good for this (or for vitamin D).

    So you need to find ways to lighten up... What's the worst that could happen, that you would die? SPOILERS: There is no such thing as death!

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 7:56am

    oclisa

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    Thinking Logically

    I am thoroughly confused. Would mainstream media, doctors, researchers, et al. all be so intent on going against whatever Trump says to shut down HCQ to this extent if it actually had the kind of promise touted here? Are the aforementioned so cynical that they care more about politics than lives? I know many on this site would say yes, but think it through. If  HCQ turns out to be beneficial, the truth will emerge, probably from another country or countries that don't suffer from TDS. I have seen Chris previously say that other countries are using HCQ to great benefit. I have not found evidence to support that statement. Assuming however that it is true, does the anti-trump media and med establishment have such power in this country to shut down those findings? If HCQ really worked to save lives and that fact (or hypothesis perhaps) is being utterly suppressed, then just how would the already discredited CDC, WHO, and other public health agencies look then? I hardly believe they are willing to discredit themselves into oblivion by suppressing information on a potential life-saving drug. It simply doesn't add up.

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 8:32am

    drbrucedale

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    I feel your pain :)

    Hi Oclisa:

    I feel your pain. 🙂  But the more education, the more status one has, the harder it is to admit when you are wrong. Self-importance, or pride, gets in the way. Big time. Logic goes out the window when pride comes in the door.

    I think their actions are explainable, in the most charitable interpretation, by just invoking pride and status. These folks made a decision about HCQ in a knee-jerk way, months ago, and now they are too proud or too arrogant to recall it.

    If you have ever had to really apologize to someone for a stupid, thoughtless or downright evil thing you did to them, you will understand, at least a little bit, what these folks are going through. Sincerely apologizing, admitting you were wrong and trying to make restitution where possible is really, really hard work. So most people prefer to avoid it. This I know by experience.

    In the least charitable interpretation, I do think that many people just flat hate Trump so much that they have seized on HCQ as a way of (they hope) doing damage to him because he suggested, months and months ago, that it might have some value. (They might have remembered instead that, to date, every single weapon used against Trump has blown up in the face of those using it. Every single one.) They can't admit HCQ has value, because that would mean that Trump was right. And they can't stand that.

    And money is a powerful motivator also...if expensive drugs costing thousands of dollars per dose are used instead of a medicine that costs literally pennies per dose, that is a big reason also to suppress and misrepresent the value of HCQ. The early church Father Tertullian once said that self-interest is a powerful argumentrix. Yup.

    Well, HCQ does have value in treating Covid-19, especially if used early. That is just flat true. You need to study the evidence provided by Chris.

    And you might benefit by carefully reading a post that SandPuppy and I wrote on Medium almost 2 months ago.

    https://medium.com/@drbrucedale/hydroxychloroquine-can-prevent-many-covid-19-related-deaths-ae5de7a73570

    The evidence is even stronger now.  Please read it...and if you don't understand some point or disagree with some point, by all means, let me know. I promise a respectful discussion.

    Best wishes for a reduction in your pain level. 🙂

    Bruce

    Can't resist one more relevant (I hope) quote from the German polymath Goethe: "All learning is accompanied by pain."

    I put that quote on the board at the beginning of each semester in all my classes. I told the students that my job was to minimize the amount of pain they suffered for each point of knowledge gained.

    You are in the process of learning something pretty powerful about our frequently corrupt, self-serving "leaders", and it hurts. I know.  All kidding aside, I do feel your pain.

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 8:57am

    thesecuritygirl

    thesecuritygirl

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    thank you ... mild symptoms :)

    great advice and thanks so much!!!

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 9:07am

    #78
    MGRS

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    Thanks for writing the medium article, DrBruceDale

    I had apparently missed it a few months ago when originally published - I hope you keep us (loudly and repeatedly) appraised of all your other writings and updates.  It's hard to find trustworthy, credentialed sources in this day and age who speak clearly and scientifically.  Having one (two!) in our own community is truly a blessing.

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 9:14am

    #79
    tbp

    tbp

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    How do they suppress HCQ?

    I am thoroughly confused. Would mainstream media, doctors, researchers, et al. all be so intent on going against whatever Trump says to shut down HCQ to this extent if it actually had the kind of promise touted here?

    Yes, TDS mind-control is very powerful.

    Are the aforementioned so cynical that they care more about politics than lives? I know many on this site would say yes, but think it through. If HCQ turns out to be beneficial, the truth will emerge, probably from another country or countries that don't suffer from TDS.

    On that you're right, as we are already witnessing:

    Hydroxychloroquine use by country

     

    I have seen Chris previously say that other countries are using HCQ to great benefit. I have not found evidence to support that statement.

    The chart above gives you a good view (though most countries are missing). It depends primarily on the degree to which a government group abides by the global health mafia's decrees (and many don't update their positions to the newest guidelines, e.g. in regard to fomites, superspreading pre- vs. asymptomatics, appropriate mask use, etc).

    Assuming however that it is true, does the anti-trump media and med establishment have such power in this country to shut down those findings?

    That's a great question. You may be thinking the corruption exists as the MSM/DNC/DS and it stops there... but no, the medical-pharmaceutical industry is of a corruption one can scarcely imagine before delving into that rabbit hole... Of all sources, I'd recommend signing up to the newsletters of Dr. Mercola and NaturalNews, that way you'll be informed progressively over time, without being easily overwhelmed. Even more importantly, you'll learn how to take control of your own health and become your own doctor!

    If HCQ really worked to save lives and that fact (or hypothesis perhaps) is being utterly suppressed, then just how would the already discredited CDC, WHO, and other public health agencies look then? I hardly believe they are willing to discredit themselves into oblivion by suppressing information on a potential life-saving drug. It simply doesn't add up.

    How they perceive they will be perceived depends on their perception of the degree to which they are able to control the narrative... They only get "discredited" if they aren't able to remain in control of the narrative. That's how it adds up.

    EDIT: Here's another one:

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 9:17am

    #80
    thesecuritygirl

    thesecuritygirl

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    https://medium.com/@drbrucedale/hydroxychloroquine-can-prevent-many-covid-19-related-deaths-ae5de7a73570

    Dr Dale and Dr Howard:

    What a great paper you've shared!!!!  Thank you for speaking up!

    Question about dosage on slight cough and phlem issue... do you think 200g per day is safe from blindness?  I have 2 friends with Lupus on HCQ and stated they have to see eye doctor for potential blindness every 6 months.  I would assume that is because of ongoing usage but don't want to assume anything before taking the HCQ dosage.

     

    Thanks!!!

     

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 9:29am

    #81
    thesecuritygirl

    thesecuritygirl

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    tbp advice

    thanks so much for your advice on HCQ... do you know anything or have you heard any news about eyes being risked or blindness due to a course of HCQ for one week?  My dose is 200mg

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 9:34am

    #82
    tbp

    tbp

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    tbp said:

    Never heard of that, no, but I've heard lots of exaggerated claims about HCQ that nobody had ever brought up before it started being used also for COVID-19.

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 9:36am

    Mohammed Mast

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    Thinking Logically

    Well thinking logically and mentioning the institutions you mentioned is a classic oxymoron.

    It is hard to know just where to begin. But perhaps the best place is with $$$$$$$$.

    Once one understands $$$$$$$ then it all makes perfect sense. People who are asleep trust people in power. They trust institutions. They trust "scientists" They trust the media. They are willing to put their intuition, their own instincts and unfortunately their own best interests aside because of indoctrination.

    The US government is a wholly owned subsidiary of corporate Amerika. In this case the big pharma cartel. Big pharma buys politicians the way Amerikaans buy toilet paper ( same use). Big pharma buys advertising the same way. Advertisers are beholden to big pharma for revenue. Supposedly well respected medical journals are funded by big pharma. These are journals that are relied on to provide unbiased scientific findings upon which doctors and researchers depend. Those findings shape public policy. One example of what I am talking about is the drug Remdesivir. It is basically an orphan drug looking for a disease it can be used for. It was studied and shown to reduce hospital stays by 4 days for SC2. It did not lower mortality. It was touted by Fauci as the standard of care. It has to be administered in a hospital, intravenously, and costs well north of $2,000. The price of the stock shot up and Gilead received a hefty bump. The back story is that 11 of the 50 members of the "expert" NIH panel that approved the drug are either employees or have financial connections to Gilead. Fast forward to the Lancet and the NEJM studies by Surgisphere which were roundly discredited and retracted. It turns out that the 2 principals of Surgisphere touted Remdesivir and were invited to talk at a Gilead meeting a couple of weeks after the study.  I wonder what their "honorarium " was?

    There are over 100 drug companies in a race to create a vaccine. Bill Gates wants to vaccinate 7.5 billion people. He has investments in many of these companies. These vaccines are being pushed through trials at a speed never before seen. Bill Gates is a big donor to the WHO.

    It is interesting to note that virtually every media report carries the same message. It is a drug promoted by Trump, it is dangerous, and it is of dubious efficacy. Studies that are designed to fail get lots of coverage and studies that show it works are ignored. In response to your question about countries where it is being used Chris posted on one of his videos countries that are doing poorly and not using it and countries that are doing exceptionally well and are using it. The following is an article about Bolsonaro in Brazil  who got SC2 and took HCQ and was better in a day. https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/hydroxychloroquine-worked-for-me-says-brazil-president/article32106326.ece

    The good Dr. Bruce covered most of this in his post. Yes it is about Trump. But to a much larger extent it is all about the money. The Frontline Doctors video that can be found in the forums is a very good overview of the situation. Dr. James Todaro has done excellent investigations into all of this.

    As what has now become the motto here "you are on your own" is now painfully clear, you need to no longer depend on institutions to have your best interests at heart.

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 9:43am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Eyes

    The issues with eyes is retinopathy. It is the result of long term use .

    "Overall, around seven patients out of every 100 taking hydroxychloroquine for more than five years may develop retinopathy that can be detected with specialised tests. At this appointment, a number of photographs and scans will be taken of your retina to assess your eye health and your suitability for screening."

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 10:56am

    thesecuritygirl

    thesecuritygirl

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    eyes

    MM, thank you so much for your note!

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 12:40pm

    #86

    davefairtex

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 03 2008

    Posts: 2188

    2

    vaccine injury study mentioned by kennedy

    Boy.  I have never seen this data before.  The methodology sure looks reasonable to me.  They monitored patients in the HMO who got vaccinated, and then looked to see if they had reported medical issues in the following 30 days that might be associated with the vaccination.

    2.6% of vaccinated people reported issues.  That was 35,570 people out of 715,000 patients.  Yow.  That's a really big number.  Now imagine if you give a COVID vaccine to 320 million Americans.    That would be 8.3 million people having an "event".

    Preliminary data were collected from June 2006 through October 2009 on 715,000 patients, and 1.4 million doses (of 45 different vaccines) were given to 376,452 individuals. Of these doses, 35,570 possible reactions (2.6 percent of vaccinations) were identified. This is an average of 890 possible events, an average of 1.3 events per clinician, per month. These data were presented at the 2009 AMIA conference.

    https://digital.ahrq.gov/sites/default/files/docs/publication/r18hs017045-lazarus-final-report-2011.pdf

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 2:05pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 783

    1

    Yep

    And you cannot prosecute anyone. You may be able to get a small amount from the government.

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 6:25pm

    Hohhot

    Hohhot

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 12 2020

    Posts: 69

    5

    1986 Vaccine Protection Act- protected from prosecution regardless of contaminates

     

    Vaccines are loss-leader items for manufacturers. To offset this, they become governmental contractors who sell primarily to state/federal/national institutions.  Since they are protected from prosecution, it helps the profitability. Consequently, there's so little oversight, there's notoriously poor quality controls.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-congress/house-bill/5546

    This was in response to numerous lawsuits in the '70s by parents who had children  injured by the DPT. Don't agree with some conclusions here, but does give history.

    https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-injury-compensation-programs

    How bad could it be? Pretty awful. In 2009, Baxter Pharma finally admitted sending seasonal flu vaccines that contained live avian flu. It was caught by quality controls in the receiving nations when they injected lab ferrets, and they all died of avian flu.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/baxter-admits-flu-product-contained-live-bird-flu-virus-1.374503

    It doesn't end there.  Glass, metals, DNA of host tissues, etc. are found far too frequently.

    "Sanofi Pasteur, one the world's leading vaccine makers, had a potentially serious and costly problem on its hands: Its Monroe County plant discovered tiny pieces of glass in batches of a vaccine intended for babies."

    https://www.mcall.com/news/watchdog/mc-sanofi-pasteur-defective-vaccine-vials-

    20161210-story.htm

    "A 2017 study of 44 types of 15 traditional vaccines, manufactured by leading global companies, has uncovered a very troubling and previously unreported fact:

    The vaccines are heavily contaminated with a variety of nanoparticles.  Many of the particles are metals."

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/06/jon-rappoport/dangerous-nano-particles-contaminating-many-vaccines-groundbreaking-study/

    Remember China has been a major world-wide vaccine producer for years. It has been plagued with scandals.

    https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/contaminated-by-scandals-china-vents-fury-at-vaccine-makers-20180723-p4zt3q.html

    For 2 years in a row, Chinese DPT vaccines for babies have been contaminated, and  it resulted in hospitalizations and deaths. Executives were imprisoned.

    Let's just say that I'm skeptical of any rushed vaccine that has been given FDA permission to completely by-pass animal testing and goes straight to humans. If you watch any of the apocalyptic zombie movies, they always center on some world-wide contagion or a vaccine with unintended (?) consequences. Soft disclosure or predictive programming?

     

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 6:54pm

    Hohhot

    Hohhot

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    Joined: Mar 12 2020

    Posts: 69

    2

    Pharma corruption is epic- here's proof

    There's a whole sorted tale behind the promotion of a drug and how the company becomes a multi-billion dollar enterprise. The FDA doesn't test drugs, but relies on the company's own research. They "review it" for the application fees, which constitute a hefty portion of their budget. Politicians are complicit when they authorize which ones will be used by the VA, Workers Comp, and paid by Medicare/Medicaid.This in turn is adopted elsewhere as standard of care.  Practitioners are literally bribed to prescribe by the companies with "speaker fees" for lectures they never even attend.

    Watch Frontline's Opiods Inc. Tale of the arrest of doctor who invented an opiod marketed as for intractable pain at the end of life, but was prescribe quite differently, and how he schemed his way to financial success. The sales manager openly admits he hires psychopaths to target vulnerable doctors/prescribers at "pill mills" with kick backs. One nurse practitioner states,"they're walking out of here with a script anyway. Why shouldn't I get compensated?" The higher the patient's dosage, the bigger the pay off.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvCld2vKug8

    Practice Fusion, a Silicon Valley start up, paid $145million in fines for pushing doctors to prescribe addictive drugs.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/28/practice-fusion-took-kickbacks-to-push-opioids-to-doctors-doj-finds.html

    July 27, 2020 Indivor agrees to pay $600million to settle prescription opioid charges.

    https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2020/07/27/576906.htm

    As you can see, there's a whole lot going on with the Pharma industry. Reasonable to be concerned about the Remdesivir push and hurried vaccines.

     

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  • Wed, Jul 29, 2020 - 7:33pm

    DennisC

    DennisC

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    Joined: Mar 19 2011

    Posts: 183

    1

    Here's Something Fun to Do

    I'm sure this information is popular:

    https://www.propublica.org/series/dollars-for-docs

    The link "Updated: Dollars for Docs" on the page has a search function so you can look up your favorite PCP or whatever.

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 5:17am

    #91
    kunga

    kunga

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    Joined: Feb 26 2017

    Posts: 368

    5

    Pres. Trump's new doctor

    Let me be the first to say that Dr. Stella Immanuel is a total kick in the pants.  Call me crazy, in this world, that is a complement.

    Obviously an honest person.  Don't roll your eyes at me...   Deep down, we all know the things she says are correct.  The anecdotal evidence for space alien abduction and hybridization program is pretty massive.    She is correct about hydroxychloroquin if nothing else.

    My vote has changed.

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 9:19am

    #92
    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Joined: Nov 27 2017

    Posts: 175

    4

    Push back

    Today, the Governor of Ohio issued a statement asking the pharmcy board to rescind its decision blocking th dispensing of HCQ. In related news, Dr. Simone Gold, who organized the conference at which Dr. Immanuel spoke, has hired lawyer Lin Wood to represent her against those who are impugning her credibility. Lin Wood secured settlements against CNN and the Washington Post on behalf of the Covington Catholic student who was maligned in the press and social media. If Dr. Gold files a lawsuit, I suspect that lots of conflict of interest will emerge in the discovery phase. I also suspect that the social media platforms censoring the group may be held liable if the weight-of-the-evidence shows that early Zn/AZT/HCQ can reduce morbidity. Not to mention the civil suits that would result if it turns out the economic damage may have been mitigated by aggressive early treatment. We shall see. Just getting a sense the dam may break...

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 9:22am

    thatchmo

    Status: Silver Member

    Joined: Dec 13 2008

    Posts: 238

    1

    SS # for HCQ?

    Seems there's always something....I followed DrBruce's instructions for aquiring HCQ from India.   Went smooth until trying to pay via transferwise.  Why would a UK-based company need my SS number for a transaction based in India?  This after also getting my DOB, address, etc.  Anyone else deal with this?  Aloha, Steve.

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 9:31am

    Rick

    Rick

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    Joined: Jul 19 2020

    Posts: 20

    1

    We are interested in having an emergence stash of HCQ too

    Been listening to Chris since January 2020 and recently joined the members only site. I am still trying to figure it all out and where to go to find the latest on acquiring HCQ.

    Does anyone know if it is available in Tennessee also if available in South Africa have asked a friend there if she can buy??  Has anyone dealt with this source that we received a reply from Sunil Phalke, S. A. Enterprises regarding Hydroxychloroquine 200 Mg - Hcqs - Tablets (Ipca)

    We basically follow Chris's prevention supplement regimen + some to keep healthy immune system.

    thanks

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 9:48am

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 206

    0

    Way use Crypto?

    Only use crypto, monero preferably.

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 9:54am

    thesecuritygirl

    thesecuritygirl

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 23 2020

    Posts: 47

    1

    agree

    it's weird.. please let me know what you find out!

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 10:00am

    #97

    000

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Dec 10 2013

    Posts: 206

    5

    Which Side Are You On Boys...

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 10:10am

    drbrucedale

    drbrucedale

    Status: Member

    Joined: Sep 06 2009

    Posts: 126

    3

    Yes, I dealt with Sunil Phalke

    Yes, I dealt with Sunil. Very pleasant and competent. India shipped my HCQ immediately, but it took three weeks to clear US customs. I would buy from Sunil again...and probably will.

    Bruce

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 1:41pm

    Mots

    Mots

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Jun 18 2012

    Posts: 266

    4

    "which side are you on" and HCQ discrimination

    zero mickey:
    Thank you for reporting the internet fascism against HCQ.   The CDC taking over the truth-tellers website is an example of things to come.  This is why we need to develop and use direct peer-to-peer communications (digital amateur radio comes to mind here).

    But that is a separate background topic.

    We do not yet have world government so freedom does exist.  In this context we should examine what is happening in India, which has gone full in on using HCQ for prophylaxis of the honey badger virus.
    Does anyone know what is happening in India, where virtually all of the nurses and doctors are taking HCQ prophylaxtically?  The Indians published an early favorable study some months ago.  They must have better data now.  The Indian experience should be front and center in these discussions.

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 2:12pm

    tbp

    tbp

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Apr 12 2020

    Posts: 523

    1

    How to fix eye issues; astaxanthin

    The issues with eyes is retinopathy. It is the result of long term use .

    "Overall, around seven patients out of every 100 taking hydroxychloroquine for more than five years may develop retinopathy that can be detected with specialised tests. At this appointment, a number of photographs and scans will be taken of your retina to assess your eye health and your suitability for screening."

    That's FIVE years! The half life is up to 2 full days so it will accumulate if taken daily. You can just quit for a while.

    I haven't looked into the mechanism that causes retinopathy, but generally what you need to repair eye degradation is DHA (omega-3 fatty acid) and vitamin A. You can also use astaxanthin to protect and even improve your eyesight (a big secret the optometrist would rather you not know!).

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 3:24pm

    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 27 2020

    Posts: 99

    1

    wotthecurtains said:

    @Rick

    I just ordered through Sunil.   As mentioned, he was a fast communicator.  He has other drugs too so I grabbed azith as well (as per a few of the studies that showed promise for HCQ)

     

    Consider what other relatively safe medicines you might also want.   I grabbed enough HCQ/azith to treat my family twice accoring to the protocols and shipping costs were still more than half of the overall price I paid.  

     

    On that note, does PP have a list of recommonded "where there are no doctors" type medicines to have on hand?  If I were more organized I would have grabbed everything in one go.

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 3:33pm

    pinecarr

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2008

    Posts: 1155

    0

    question re payment method

    Hi wotthecurtains- Did you pay using transferwise?  I have the same issue that thatchmo brought up, being uncomfortable with giving them my social security number. Thanks!

    Edit: Here's an article I found on information requirements for international money (currency:) transfers.  It also provides a table with  various money transfer providers and their information requirements. "Sending a money transfer: What information is required?"

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 6:45pm

    Rick

    Rick

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    @wotthecurtains

    Chris does show what he takes at the end of many of his videos

    Dr Mercola is another source for a list of helpful supplements

    on July 9 Mohammed Mast  had a good list 

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 7:14pm

    Rick

    Rick

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    Joined: Jul 19 2020

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    @wotthecurtains and others

    Thanks for the replies ....we are new to community appreciate the help and ideas....the idea of 2 rounds for spouse and self is great plus picking up the  Azith

    Has anyone taken the HCQ and know it works or is actually HCQ as we would expect?

    So I am thinking that we need 800 mg day one and 400mg for 9 days after that does that sound about right? Thus about 100 200mg pills should be a good stash - though they are so cheap maybe 200 is better and have extras. We keep stocked with zinc and quercetin too.

    How about the  Azith - any help here would be appreciated?? I do not know dosage on that .........I am sure it on a post somewhere on the site but have not come across yet. do you take everyday along with the HCQ?

    thank you.......will post on our experience and receipt

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  • Thu, Jul 30, 2020 - 10:46pm

    AcadieQuebec

    AcadieQuebec

    Status: Member

    Joined: Feb 25 2020

    Posts: 15

    0

    SS # for HCQ? Sounds very fishy,,,

    Sounds very fishy to me. Do not divulge your date of birth and social security number! It could lead to identity fraud.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 2:44am

    David McKenney

    David McKenney

    Status: Member

    Joined: Mar 25 2020

    Posts: 84

    4

    Controlling the narrative: 9/11

    A reminder that "they" have controlled the narrative of 9/11 for 19 years and gotten away with it. Not a good sign for the HCQ story.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 5:52am

    tbp

    tbp

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    Joined: Apr 12 2020

    Posts: 523

    2

    HCQ dosing - consider the Half-Life!!

    So I am thinking that we need 800 mg day one and 400mg for 9 days after that does that sound about right? Thus about 100 200mg pills should be a good stash - though they are so cheap maybe 200 is better and have extras. We keep stocked with zinc and quercetin too.

    800mg sounds too high - most reports say 600mg twice a day is the high-dose treatment for hospitalized patients (who are generally in a more advanced stage of disease progression). If it's prophylaxis you can use even just 100mg a day, because the half-life is about 2 days, so it accumulates.

    As for azithromycin, I wouldn't take it if I'm at home, but it makes sense to use it in hospitals to eliminate the confounding factor of co-infections by opportunistic bacteria. Over 95% of people who died from the Spanish Flu died more directly from bacterial co-infection (in a time before antibiotics).

    A reminder that "they" have controlled the narrative of 9/11 for 19 years and gotten away with it. Not a good sign for the HCQ story.

    The situation is quite different as today we have social media, Youtube, smartphones... and they have totally obliterated their credibility to anyone but their mind-controlled NPC slaves. And they're censoring all of us, no matter if you're a group of doctors with hands-on experience... They're waging all-out war on us in our faces...

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 6:48am

    jturbo68

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

    Posts: 122

    4

    Dosing

    Zelenko uses 400mg per day for 5 days. Fwiw

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 7:01am

    Rick

    Rick

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    Joined: Jul 19 2020

    Posts: 20

    0

    @tbp

    thanks.....we will try and order today and repost once we know more

    Hopefully this is not all repetitive elsewhere on this site (if it is maybe you can point us in the direction too) but here is info we found today on a French study with a link to site

    The Process:

    Patients with COVID-19 infection are treated with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin.

    Plaquenil 200mg x3/day (10 days), and azithromycine 250mg for five days, twice the first day, then once for the next four days.

    In order to avoid cardiac problems, an ECG is done before starting treatment, and in order to assess lung damage, a low-dose CT scan is performed.

    The evaluation of the virological effect consists of a PCR before inclusion, with the quantification of the viral load on a nasopharyngeal sample, and a PCR on D5 to verify that the virus is undetectable or at levels too low to present a contagious risk.

     

     

    https://www.doctoroz.com/article/protocol-followed-french-covid-19-drug-combo-study

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 9:19am

    jturbo68

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Aug 04 2009

    Posts: 122

    0

    Kardia - 6L EKg - Personal EKg

    Thought this might be interesting for folks.

    I purchased one with the idea to track my QT interval expecting that I would use HCQ at some point.

    There is a personal 6Lead Ekg device on the market called a Kardia.

    https://www.alivecor.com/kardiamobile6l

     

    It is FDA approved for taking an EKG that will provide the information needed for QTc measurement.   A cardiologist is needed to calculate the QTc as the device will not provide that information directly.

    Kardia has a monthly service (kardiacare) where a Cardiologist will analyze the outputs each month.  I emailed them and asked if that service would provide the QTc. They indicated that it would not.

     

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 2:50pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 783

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    Chloroquine Phosphate dosing for Malaria

    Chloroquine Phosphate 500mg. = 300mg. base

    https://www.uptodate.com/contents/chloroquine-drug-information

    This is for prophylaxis.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 2:54pm

    Mpup

    Mpup

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Mar 01 2020

    Posts: 88

    1

    Thanks Dr. Bruce

    My doc said he would write an order for HCQ if testing positive, but sometimes results take over a week to get back.  I went ahead and ordered thru A.S. Enterprises as well.  Sunil shipped same day payment was received.  Also ordered Z-pack and Ivermectin.  Have enough for multiple treatments and/or family members.  Just hope it is received timely.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 2:54pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

    Posts: 783

    0

    Hydroxychloroquine dosing for Malaria prophylaxis

    https://www.drugs.com/dosage/hydroxychloroquine.html

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 3:00pm

    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

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    Joined: Feb 27 2020

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    wotthecurtains said:

    @pinecarr   

    I usede Transerwise.  I paid by Visa.   I was never asked for a SS type number (but Im in Canada).   Transferwise did want my DOB which I filled in in the hopes it would make my CC more likely to be accepted

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 4:04pm

    Susan7

    Susan7

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    Joined: Feb 15 2020

    Posts: 78

    1

    Question about Chloroquine

    Has anyone come across the dosing for chloroquine? It comes in 250mg tabs. I’m thinking initial dose of 500mg then 250 mg twice daily x 5 days but I’m just guessing.

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 5:44pm

    pinecarr

    Status: Gold Member

    Joined: Apr 13 2008

    Posts: 1155

    0

    Thanks wotthecurtains

    Thanks wotthecurtains.  That makes sense.  I think the need for the SSN may be a US requirement.  Sigh!!  But I am glad you were able to use transferwise successfully!

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  • Fri, Jul 31, 2020 - 6:28pm

    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

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    Joined: Feb 27 2020

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    0

    wotthecurtains said:

    Thanks, now let's see if they ship me anything 🤪

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  • Thu, Sep 24, 2020 - 3:16pm

    wotthecurtains

    wotthecurtains

    Status: Bronze Member

    Joined: Feb 27 2020

    Posts: 99

    4

    Finally cleared Customs

    After 1.5 months my HCQ order from Sunil finally cleared Canadian customs.

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