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    Covid-19: Half A Million Dead. And Rising.

    And yet society still debates whether covid-19 is a 'big deal' or not...
    by Adam Taggart

    Wednesday, July 1, 2020, 7:41 AM

Today marks a grim milestone as the world crosses the 10 million covid-19 cases threshold, as well as half a million dead from the virus.

And the counts keep rising.

Meanwhile, the debate somehow rages on: Is covid-19 a big deal or not?

In today’s video, Chris evaluates the arguments on both sides (spoiler alert: after doing so, he’s even more firmly in the “big deal” camp than before)

It’s little wonder that the US is managing the pandemic so poorly when we can’t even agree that millions infected, hundreds of thousands dead, sharply rising new cases in many states, and hospitals overflowing with increasingly young patients are cause for concern.

Or that the Federal Reserve, busy using the crisis as an excuse to enrich the billionaire class at the expense of everyone else, is run by a man who doesn’t know how to wear a mask protectively.

All this makes it easy for Chris to predict: Things are going to get worse before they get better

GET PREPARED! To access the premium report Chris mentions in the video, 8 Steps For Surviving What’s Coming, click here.

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79 Comments

  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 8:24am

    #1
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Medcram is one of the Best

    There is a medical info tool for validating the info you get in articles, internet etc.

    It is called Discern and ranks the quality of sources and info. Medcram scores very high.

    https://www.medcram.com/courses/take/coronavirus-outbreak-symptoms-treatment/lessons/14146764-update-90-assess-the-quality-of-covid-19-info-with-a-validated-tool

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  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 8:41am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Addendum

    Actually of the top 5 videos 3 were from Medcram. The top video was #34.

    This is where it gets hilarious. Medcram video #34 is about Hydroxychloroquine.

    Youtube pulled that video because it did not meet its standards.

    HMMMM?

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  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 8:48am

    Jim H

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    MM, Medcram #34, and all of their videos, are available on Youtube

    It was pulled at one point along with lots of pro-HCQ stuff, but was re-instated.

    Here it is;  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7F1cnWup9M

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  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 9:40am

    #4
    kunga

    kunga

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    Third Party Time

    Since the main choices seem to be between an old guy with dementia and an old guy with personality disorder, me thinks it be time to seriously look at alternative candidates.

    I want to see a platform for with a plank for responsible mask wearing and a plank with support for HCQ and what ever treatment the patient wants.  Gotta get medicine broken free of the vaccine/ pharmaceutical monster.

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  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 9:41am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Medcram

    I started going directly to Medcram when they pulled three of the videos. So I did not see they reinstated them. Dr Seheult made a comment about censorship in one of his videos. I guess Youtube got the message

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  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 10:20am

    #6
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Thanks

    Thank you for wearing a mask

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ebzZj1e2WQ

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  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 2:05pm

    #7

    davefairtex

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    numbers in context

    All the different causes of death, worldwide: 56 million.

    https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death

    • Lower respiratory tract infections.  3 million.
    • HIV: 1 million.
    • TB: 1.3 million
    • Heart disease & stroke: 15 million

    We are halfway through the year.  Right now, COVID is on track to kill just about as many people as HIV does, worldwide.  And HIV isn't even in the top 10 anymore.

    Of course, these are WHO-facts.  Maybe they are wrong.  Grain of salt and all that.

    How many of this year's "scheduled" 15 million "heart disease and stroke" deaths were taken out early by COVID?  200,000?  More?

    Just trying to put the half-million number in context.

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  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 4:28pm

    #8
    tkocou

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    Some State Governors are 'getting' it (ref. masks)

    https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/emory-researcher-says-superspreaders-responsible-20-states-covid-cases/UH6XHLTZKJBTZPJDBMURAHZYRM/

    Especially the follow-up short video

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  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 6:58pm

    #9

    sofistek

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    No masks in New Zealand

    Again, I have to correct Chris's implication that New Zealand required the use of masks. It didn't. Pleaes stop spreading this misrepresentation, Chris. you've done this many times.

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  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 9:43pm

    MKI

    MKI

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    numbers in context

    How many of this year's "scheduled" 15 million "heart disease and stroke" deaths were taken out early by COVID?

    This is an excellent point.

    As an example, in my area we had a single C19 death - at least, it was recorded as such. He was near 80 and had cancer plus a bunch of other health issues and was expected to die. When he finally did die, clearly cancer, they tested for C19 (due to the panic) and surprisingly found it. His family was shocked and pissed off to see C19 on his death certificate.

    I think a lot more folk will die from the shutdown complications (job loss depression. etc.) than C19 itself. Of course, C19 will actually save lives just due to the decline in  driving! I also think England had the right idea back in the day: just let those worried about C19 quarantine themselves/wear masks and let the rest of us get it.

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  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 10:28pm

    #11
    Base12

    Base12

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    So when does this end? 

    First it ended when the hospitals were not overwhelmed.  Done.  But it didn't end.

    Then there were unreported deaths to account for.  We have to wait until overall death rates return to normal.  Done.  But it didn't end.

    Now that hospitalizations and deaths have been falling for a month and a half,  even with cases steady to rising, they don't matter anymore.  It is the cases that matter now.

    The goal posts keep getting moved.  Some people will only be happy with zero Covid infections.  As if a Covid death is different than a death from any other cause.  Why haven't we been locking down and social distancing for the last hundred years during every flu season if one death is too many?

    And why stop at masks and social distancing.  If zero is the goal then face shields have to be required.  And we should all shower in and shower out when we leave or enter our home, or workplace.  Hog farmers do it to prevent disease transmission.  If it is good enough for livestock it is worth it to save our neighbors.  Unless you want to kill Grandma.

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  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 11:05pm

    sofistek

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    Not a great idea

    just let those worried about C19 quarantine themselves/wear masks and let the rest of us get it

    So you haven't actually watched Chris's videos?

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  • Wed, Jul 01, 2020 - 11:18pm

    #13

    sofistek

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    It's a bad disease to get

    As Chris's videos have made abundantly clear, this is not a disease you want to get, though reducing the inoculum amount seems to result in a milder disease with a better outcome.

    As far as deaths going down, this seems reasonable as we have more knowledge of the disease and how to better treat the patient to help them heal. This is good but as cases start to spike again, the deaths are starting to tick up again (with a roughly two to three week lag from cases to deaths). No goal posts have been moved.

    The last two comments seem to miss the points of the videos almost entirely.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 3:43am

    Mpup

    Mpup

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    Third Party Time?

    It's time for voters to demand term limits.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 5:00am

    LesPhelps

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    The last two posts miss the point of the video entirely.

    And yet, these posts are needed.  We need constant reminders that the US is clearly divided on this.

    If we are hoping for a consensus on Covid-19, or anything else for that matter, we are going to be disappointed.

    I know someone who just bought a giant magnet so that he can disable the robot that will be coming to give him a mandatory Covid-19 vaccine.

    Most people don’t spend a significant portion of their time trying to suss out the latest and most rational understanding of... well anything.

    ”People prefer to believe what they prefer to be true.”
    - Sir Francis Bacon

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 5:09am

    David Turin

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    voters will NOT demand term limits

    It's time for voters to demand term limits.

    Seems to me voters "demand" just the opposite.  Currently, the longest serving congressman is Don Young from Alaska, who started serving in 1973.  If you list the longest serving 100 members, the last,  numbers 87-100 were first elected in 2005 and they have "already" been re-elected seven times:

    Emanuel Cleaver Missouri 5
    Mike Conaway Texas 11
    Jim Costa California 16
    Henry Cuellar Texas 28
    Jeff Fortenberry Nebraska 1
    Virginia Foxx North Carolina 5
    Louie Gohmert Texas 1
    Al Green Texas 9
    Brian Higgins New York 26
    Dan Lipinski Illinois 3
    Kenny Marchant Texas 24
    Michael McCaul Texas 10
    Patrick T. McHenry North Carolina 10
    Cathy McMorris Rodgers Washington 5

    Pelosi has been elected dozens of times.  Shall we turn our attention to the Senate next?  No need.  Just look at Mitch, he started serving in 1985.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 5:12am

    #17
    dryam2000

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    “Numbers in context”

    Here’s some context for your “context”........

    CV-19 causes hypercoagulability in many of those infected, especially older patients.  More younger patients have been having strokes since CV-19.  Doctors early on learned that if a lower risk person (younger etc.) presented to the hospital with a stroke they should be tested for CV-19.  This is one of the earliest tipoffs that blood clots were one of CV-19’s bad manifestations.  Yes, cardiovascular disease by itself is the leading cause of death in most places in the world.  However, CV-19 has disproportionately affected those with cardiovascular disease by expediting the process; heart attacks or strokes that would have occurred a few (or several) years down the road are now happening earlier because of the increased clotting activity.  Labeling a death as being caused by a single entity is nonsensical.  People almost always want to make the world out as being black and white instead of the innumerable shades of gray that it actually is.  I’ve filled out 20+ years worth of death certificates and most of the time I spent no more than 5 seconds writing the cause of the death as I knew most causes of death were a conglomeration of many things and the ridiculous form couldn’t come close to being accurate.

    Bottom line, cardiovascular disease starts raising its ugly head around 45+ for many people in the U.S. and the age has been decreasing over the years worldwide because of unhealthy habits.  Those years of 45-60 are quite valuable for many people because many are still quite functional up to their initial cardiovascular event.  There is no doubt  about it CV-19 has greatly impacted folks who are at risk for cardiovascular disease, and that would include a majority of most people throughout the world who are of age.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 7:34am

    richcabot

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    Lots of things are bad to get

    HIV is bad to get.  A broken neck, ending up quadriplegic is bad.  We don't lock down the country, destroy peoples livelihoods, bankrupt hundreds of thousands of small businesses because of these or any other risk in life.   Why lock down everyone over COVID?   Lockdown the especially vulnerable, institute mandatory face mask use and suffer a much reduced impact on the economy.

    The goal posts have been moved.   Originally we had to shut down so hospitals wouldn't be overloaded.  Except in NYC they never came close.  Now lockdowns must continue until case rates decrease.  Any uptick is viewed as an excuse to reinstate lockdowns.   The official position is things can't get back to normal until a vaccine is available.

    We are in roughly the same position we were at the start of this.  Except now we aren't being told "Don't wear masks, their dangerous".  Now we're being told we have to wear masks.  People don't respond in large part because one of the official positions must be a lie.

    I certainly don't want to get COVID and am taking prudent steps to avoid infection.  I'm not hibernating indoors and avoiding everyone.  Even though I wear a mask when shopping I wouldn't consider it enough protection to attend a large sporting event.

    Chris's early videos described the problem as balancing the three legs of a stool.  It seems much of the government response has been one legged.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 7:41am

    #19
    Steve

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    It's not over yet... Case, case, case ... cluster, cluster ... boom.

    Our little county in south Georgia may be becoming a hotspot for COVID.

    Case, case, case, ... cluster, cluster ... boom.

    Glynn county, Georgia is a relatively small county with a population of around 75,000.  We are a preferred tourist destination with St. Simons Island and it's beaches.

    For the sake of the "economy," (greed and stupidity), our beaches were opened-up to anybody who wanted to come from anywhere and inject the COVID virus into our population.

    June 1: “Through June 17, there were only 204 positive cases involving Glynn County residents,” ... “In only two weeks, that figure has increased by 300 percent to (839) which, by anyone’s account, represents a pace that can’t be tolerated and must be reversed.”

    "In the past week, the seven-day rolling average for Glynn has increased 211 percent and includes 421 new cases and the community transmission index has increased 262 percent," ...

    The number of inpatients at the local hospital doubled overnight (July 2) ... from 14 to 28 and within the past week the death count has doubled form 3 to 6 deaths due to COVID.

    The situation is completely nuts and irresponsible.

    These numbers only reflect locals... and do not include the 10's of thousands of tourists since they just take it back home with them ... The week of July 4 will be huge... I suspect the spread to continue.

    https://thebrunswicknews.com/news/coronavirus/recent-covid-19-spikes-could-signal-glynn-becoming-a-hotspot/article_89e1f3e0-3263-5676-bd73-54b861ce6438.html#utm_source=thebrunswicknews.com&utm_campaign=%2Fnewsletters%2Fheadlines%2F%3F-dc%3D1593684028&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 7:56am

    Steve

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    Steve said:

    I don't see why we can't take a different viewpoint on the economic matter.  The gap between the wealthy and everybody else is huge.  Yet, the central banks are pumping trillions of dollars into wall street and corporations and just making the wealthy more wealthy.  Yet all we hear is that we have to put people back to work ... risking spread of the virus and putting lives and quality of life at stake...

    Why not stop the "back to work" mantra and transfer some of that wealth into the hands of people who need it by narrowing the wealth gap?  Isn't this the time to give back some of those trillions of dollars that have been siphoned off of the backs of the working class?

    With the wealthy chanting "back to work," while they sit protected in their "homesteads" hoarding their riches ... civil unrest will just increase from those who have nothing else left to lose.

    I suspect, as the curtain continues to be pulled back and the lies revealed, we are in for some difficult times ahead.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 8:02am

    #21

    davefairtex

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    lockdown cost

    Stat I saw:

    For each 1,000 unemployed people, it results in 1 suicide, 2-3 drug overdoses, and 35-40 divorces.  No stats on alcohol abuse relapses, or domestic violence incidents.  I'm guessing they aren't a small number - maybe on the order of "divorces", although there's probably some overlap there.

    We got 20.79  million unemployed from the lockdowns.  Just do the math.  How many deaths from suicide & overdoses is that?  Say 80k?  And 727k families broken up?

    And I'm also just guessing that these protests are a consequence of locking everyone away too.

    But of course, no realtime stats on this, so nobody pays attention.  Unless it is your friend who relapses, ODs, commits suicide, or gets divorced.  And then you might just think its bad luck.  "We focus on what we measure."

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 8:36am

    #22
    dryam2000

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    Hmmm

    Lots of things are bad to get......I don’t think anyone can argue differently.

    I have not seen anyone articulate that the goal is zero infections as that would be highly improbable in non-closed off society (New Zealand has a natural advantage being an island.....and having a fairly monolithic society).  There are many reasons the U.S. has completely failed in regards to CV-19, and blame can be can be thrown in many directions.  Where to start???  The government has given so mixed messages from the beginning from the president to CDC, Dr. Fauci, very different approaches by different states seemingly based more on politics than science, etc.  Instead of hitting this hard from the get go there’s been more of a wait and see attitude while there was exponential spread going relatively undetected because of inexplicable under testing and minimal travel restrictions.  Additionally, the White House was biased in not wanting an (inevitable) impairment in the economy because the economy and associated metrics such as the stock market are the main God Trump prays to.  The conflicting messages has led to a tremendous amount of lack of trust in TPTB.  There is little credibility left.  Credibility takes a lot of time to cultivate, can be lost in a millisecond, and can sometimes take generations to restore.  The American people also have plenty of blame.  Yes, there have been shutdowns but CV-19 medical progress has been greatly impeded & counteracted by self-centered people who care more about their “rights” to not wear a mask, not follow social distancing guidelines, not cooperate with contact tracing (unfuckingbelievable!), and absolutely crazy stuff like college kids having CV-19 parties with the goal of seeing who can get infected the quickest (well beyond unfuckingbelievable).  Then there’s the issue of the BLM protests.  I’m all for people being able to have peaceful free speech, but having very few medical professionals and almost all of the MSM not make any mention of lack of CV-19 precautions at the protests is inexcusable.  If folks would simply behave in regards to CV-19, especially from the get go not unlike New Zealand, then CV-19 would be immensely less problematic and the economy could be much more open and people would have so much more freedom...... which is what many people have been demanding in the first place.  It’s not difficult; with rights come responsibilities.  My parents taught me this from when I was a child.   American culture has been in decline for decades.  The sense of community has given way to the sense of selfishness and self-centeredness.  Americans have much, much more in common than the differences that the MSM propaganda tries its best to maximize 24/7/365.

    Few (sane) people would argue lockdowns don’t have any ill effects because they absolutely do.  Lockdowns are incredibly detrimental in so many ways....too many to list now.  The main problem is that lockdowns require much discipline at all levels which is severely lacking in the U.S.  The goal of a lockdown should be hit it hard & fast for a short period of time.  Lingering, stuttering lockdowns while the many segments of  populace are directly counteracting the lockdowns give lockdowns undeserved bad names.  If done right, lockdowns can be very effective.  Done wrong, you get the worst of both worlds.....in an exponential fashion.

    Everytime I read things where people are very much slanted on one side or the other I am quickly tipped off that not much can be garnered from their writings.  CV-19, the economy, energy issues, etc. are complicated issues (and predicaments as Chris M. would say) that have to be managed as they are not going away anytime soon.  That means for the best outcome there has to be trade offs.  Few issues are clearly black and white.  Instead, most issues are many layers of nuanced shades of gray.....especially our current predicaments.   There’s enough hyperbole in the MSM.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 8:44am

    #23
    nordicjack

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    Nick Cordero's condition

    We have all known that his condition is grave.  Losing a leg, over 65lbs   more thna 3 mos in the hospital.  Still not stable, etc.    It was announced today that he will need a double lung transplant.    And someone asks "why are we not answering the question why this does this to some and nothing to others?"   and why no one is trying to answer this question.      Its not the later question that scares me; its the fact that the assumption is wrong,   there is damage in all victims..... and many with mild cases are going to suffer life-long.   The question is why is this not more well known?

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 9:24am

    Mohammed Mast

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    The Big Short

    I am glad to see we are quoting stats from Brad Pitt in the movie the Big Short.

    https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/suicide_prevention/docs/Literature_Review_FSTP_Unemployment_FINAL_508_8-19-2019.pdf

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 9:33am

    MKI

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    why this does this to some and nothing to others

    And someone asks "why are we not answering the question why this does this to some and nothing to others?"

    I believe this answer is obvious - some people are healthy (good diet, good immune system), but many are not. IOW, if you haven't had the flu in a decade and never get sick, plus are fit/lift weights/exercise daily, the odds of having C19 issues (at any age) is simply minute.

    I can't believe something like C19 hasn't shown up yet - a disease that preys almost overweight/unhealthy/very old people. Why? It's historically unnatural for humans to live so long while so unhealthy (as we do today). In prior times, people mostly stayed thin and fairly healthy while alive (check out photos from the 1950s - everyone is thin). Also, check out percentage of C19 victims who are fat and obese. Bluntly, C19 wouldn't make much of a dent 50 years ago.

    Everyone seems to think we will all live forever. But there is a real price to pay for trying to avoid any possible risk. So the C19 debate today is not some "scientific argument", it's just what price are we willing to pay for what risk. As for myself, I would have done nothing at all and just accepted the higher C19 death rate, like we silently accept the pain of driving or the common cold or flu or Ebola or AIDS, and just let everyone decide for themselves. When things get bad enough, trust me, people will mask up and hide on their own (check out how people respond to Ebola).

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 9:41am

    #26
    Mohammed Mast

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    Kerala India

    India's numbers are spiking. I left there in mid Feb. There were a handful of cases then.

    Kerala is a small state on the SW coast. It is primarily Hindu with large Muslim and Christian minorities. It has universal health care and universal literacy.

    Kerala is doing a fantastic job thus far with SC2. The following article is quite illuminating if one compares their approach with the US. It kind of casts a great deal of doubt on Amerikaan exceptionalism.

    https://aurumproject.org.au/kerala-health-policy-covid/?fbclid=IwAR3eQ8vMxU2V5hskOW4l6kq2S7o9RPJnQAZfLWv0qRIjvAjk9VssOc60h34

     

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 10:06am

    Jim H

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    Success in battling the new Corona virus in Kerala, India

    I have always been skeptical of homeopathy, to say the least, and yet all of the articles on the subject of Kerala mention it;

    https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/indian-authorities-propose-use-of-homeopathy-to-prevent-coronavirus-67075

    I lean toward the questioning view;

    https://edzardernst.com/2020/06/another-remarkable-demonstration-of-homeopathys-effectiveness-in-covid-19-only-19-deaths-out-of-35-million-in-kerala-india/

    Ah but we know that India overall embraced HCQ early and continued to embrace it and not be cowed by WHO's false warnings;

    https://www.magzter.com/article/Newspaper/The-New-Indian-Express-Chennai/Ktaka-Kerala-Continue-To-Use-Hydroxychloroquine

    Kerala's success in fighting Covid-19 mortality is fascinating and hopefully we can understand all of the factors behind it as time goes on.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 11:35am

    Base12

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    Disagreeing with a point doesn't mean it was missed.

    Chris's videos clearly changed from flatten the curve back in Feb and March, to flat isn't good enough now.  Then there is his belief that masks will solve everything.  This isn't true.  Masks aren't enough to stop the spread in crowded cities.  There are too many people too close together.  According to Unacast the human encounter density for someone in Brooklyn is, right now, around 1,000 times higher than it is for someone in the rural Midwest.

    Then he ridicules rural areas that don't mask even though their unmasked infection risk is lower than a masked New Yorker's.  As if farmers don't understand how diseases work.   I wasn't kidding about the showering in and out.  You are also not allowed to wear the same clothes or shoes at work that you came in wearing.  And the guy delivering feed wears a tyvek suit that covers his shoes, and disinfects the wheels of his truck before approaching the buildings.

    Then he goes on to say hospitals are being overwhelmed with young people.  Not so fast.  California's tracking website shows 23% of ICU beds are available in Riverside County, not 1%.  Siskiyou County California has 38% available with zero Covid patients in the ICU.  38% vs 23%,  not exactly seeing the emergency here.

    The emergency is Houston is more hype too.  As one hospital CEO said “We actually still think we have plenty of capacity to meet the demand for Covid, as well as non-Covid patients” Callender said “We’re always busy in the summertime, and what we’re seeing now is a typical summer for us.”  The lie is that the news reports are comparing ICU patients today vs the number of beds before the pandemic.  FYI, there are more ICU beds now.

    The last questionable statement is that deaths will increase three weeks after cases spike.  Not so fast.  Cases in Sweden have held steady for 10 weeks while deaths have fallen by 85%.  In the US, since late April, deaths have fallen by 75% as cases fell by around 25%.  Even a doubling of cases won't be enough to overcome the downtrend in deaths.

    I started listening to Chris back in February when he was right about pretty much everything.  I still respect his opinion and listen to every podcast, but our some of our views have diverged lately.

    It's disappointing that there can't be differences of opinion on here without being accused of not listening, or of not rationally understanding the situation.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 12:15pm

    #29

    thatchmo

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    Lost....

    Lies, damn lies, and statisics.  I'm gettin' a headache from all this conflicting info, and it's not from re-breathing my own exhaust.  But as Chris has always said: Trust yourself.  Which leaves me exactly....where?   Aloha, Steve.

    Then there's the G. Maxwell deal.  LOOK, a squirrel!

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 2:04pm

    #30
    dryam2000

    dryam2000

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    Hearsay

    Passing on hearsay is a derivative of hearsay.  Knowing how many patients are in ICUs, and how many patients who really need to be in ICUs but are being managed elsewhere in the hospital because of the lack of ICU beds can be difficult to determine from the outside looking in.  What’s reported in the “news” is oftentimes off the mark, and sometimes purposefully misleading for various reasons.  The fact is some big hospitals are clearly on ICU diversion, and some are not.  These new ever increasing infections are a big deal.  Go ask the nurses and doctors in Arizona, Texas, Florida, or California if you have any doubts.  Data is great & oftentimes needed, but sometimes stories from boots on the ground can be much more informative.....as long as the stories are relatively congruent.

    For some reason people get fixated on the number of deaths.  Most certainly death rates are coming down which is mainly from better treatment protocols & more infections among the young.  What very few people talk about and what receives very little media attention is the persisting medical sequela of those who “recovered”.  I personally have a couple of risk factors being 53yo but death is not my biggest personal concern it’s the potential for life long medical sequela from CV-19 greatly impairing my quality of life going forward and decreasing my life expectancy.  Steroids & blood thinners only help certain aspects of the infection.

    I’ve never heard Chris M. mention that masks should be worn all the time.  When there are not other people around then why would anyone wear a mask?  No, masks and all other preventative measures are not meant to cause zero transmission of disease.  All of these efforts are meant to decrease the chances incrementally to absolutely minimize transmission.  Even small improvements in spread can give outstanding improvements overall with a disease that is highly contagious with potential of huge exponential increases in very short periods of time.

    I continue to be extremely pleased with PP’s CV-19 coverage.  It’s quite evident Chris, Adam, and the supporting cast are busting their butts with top notch coverage.  PP has always thrived on diversity of thought.  I’m sure Chris M. would not want people to fully accept what he says as being 100% gospel.  He likes critical thinking.  I’m sure if someone draws exception to a point he has made he would like to hear the opposing view with supporting data & logic.  I’ve always known him to be a 100% truth seeker and I’ve never seen an instance where his ego got in the way of this pursuit.  He readily corrects things or admits his mistakes, and moves on.  Holding PP to the standard of perfection is not reasonable.

    We are all trying to muddle through this the best we can.  The waters remain quite murky.  So many people & entities have hidden (or not so hidden) agendas and sorting through it all every day can be quite draining.....at least for me anyway.

    Hope everyone got some good vitamin D today working outside.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 2:39pm

    Mpup

    Mpup

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    Reply to David Turin

    Until we clean out the cesspool that is the house and senate, we will continue to have "representatives" that don't represent the will of the people, and that don't hold the best interest of our country.   Should we continue to give a pass to the graft and corruption that is our government?  Should we resign ourselves to the premise that we can't affect change?   If we resign ourselves to the status quo, that's what we'll have.  If pitchforks, tar and feather would work I'd be all for it.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 2:40pm

    #32

    gallantfarms

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    Liar Liar Pants on Fire Fauci

    FAUCI MISLEADS PUBLIC; COMPLAINS ABOUT DISTRUST In March, Dr. Tony Fauci told Americans that masks won’t stop the spread of COVID-19. Recently he admitted that public health officials were misleading on purpose, to stop the public from buying up all of the masks. In the same breath he complains a large portion of the public are ‘anti-science’ and they ‘don’t believe authority.’

     

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 3:02pm

    Chief Stonehouse

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    Chief Stonehouse said:

    I agree, I'm 55 and the thought of being a pulmonary cripple, not able to walk 100 feet without exhaustion or do basic tasks without rest, is every bit the horror of death.

    The one value to death numbers is you can roughly back out how many have the disease.  If 20% of the population will eventually be hospitalized, half of this go into IC units, and 2% to 5% die, then at least 2% of 300 million people will have died before we approach the end.  So six million 15 million lost souls.

    Grim, but can anyone challenge my logic?

     

    C. Stone

     

     

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 3:09pm

    #34

    sand_puppy

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    HIT and reducing lockdowns

    DaveF posted his analysis of the new herd immunity threshold (HIT) paper accounting for the VARIABILITY in susceptibility among people.  This has really started my noggin' spinning seeking new ways to look at this.

    Above, in today's Daily Digest, Base12, post a link to JB Handley's excellent paper on Lockdown Lunacy 2.0 which continues this way of looking at things.  Many references are included in Handley's article and he summarizes the opposition to new lockdowns articulated by several thinkers.

    A couple of basic points seem correct to me.  (Let me know if other's know differently)

    1.  NPIs aimed at "flattening the curve" are only aimed at slowing the rate of spread of infection in the population.  They don't change the area under the curve nor the total eventual number of people ultimately infected.  Lockdowns do not offer immunity nor ultimate protection from the virus.

    2.  It seems that humans have some T-Cell based immunity against the general family of coronaviruses (one of the common cold viruses) that is different from the antibodies against SC2.  Some in the general population have partial immunity even without exposure to SC2 or having measurable antibodies to SC2.

    3.  The rate of spread of infections for any single individual is not "average" and the population is not "well mixed," (both basic assumptions of the simplified assessment about HIT).  For example, a nurse who lives in NYC and travels to work by subway with multiple personal risk factors and low vitamin D levels may be a "super-spreader" with a personal R of 15,  while an accountant who works from a semi-rural home, only travels by private car, and is in excellent health may have a personal R of only 0.2.

    4.  So herd immunity happens early in the pockets of super-susceptible, super-exposed super-spreaders.

    5.  The numbers of cases metric is a function of several factors, including:

    1) number of infected people,

    2) number of tests being offered, and

    3) number of people seeking testing.

    So numbers of cases is not a great metric for showing the briskness of infection spreading.  Deaths, hospitalizations and ICU admissions for COVID are probably better.  (And these are geographically patchy making them harder to interpret.)

    Example:  Daily Deaths from COVID in Italy (From Handley)

    6.  The uptick in cases following the protests is mostly in young adults where little increase in deaths are likely.  They are developing HIT, something that will benefit the rest of us.

    7.  Several specific indicators that HIT is roughly around 20% for Stockholm, and may be of this order of magnitude for big cities.

    -----

    So, I'm exploring a new "box."

     

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 3:13pm

    thc0655

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    Forget the pitchforks. It will be Rule 308

    Rule 308
    When Marxist mayors order their police to stand down,

    So that Antifa thugs can beat old men to the ground,

    Don’t think they’ve surrendered, or been run out of town.

    .

    Politicians should consider, and media bosses beware:

    When Amendment One is abridged, the Second’s still there,

    Just watching and waiting, like a rattlesnake in its lair.

    .

    When justice is perverted, and Marxist judges legislate,

    When free speech is censored, then banished as hate,

    Then the only rule standing will be Rule 308.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 3:41pm

    Jim H

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    A point (about the point) to remember when enforcing rule 308

    The version of rule 308 in the last post is for practice only.  For real enforcement the following version (or equivalent) of rule 308 is suggested;

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 4:57pm

    David Turin

    David Turin

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    If we resign ourselves to the status quo, that's what we'll have.

    I understand what you are saying @mpup and I don't disagree, yet

    "representatives" that don't represent the will of the people

    get re-elected again and again.  I am not resigned.  Facts changed my beliefs and still do.  I have changed and I find myself changing again.  Those around me are changing too.

    It isn't just "representatives" either.  Dr. Anthony Fauci for example has been the Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 5:04pm

    Chief Stonehouse

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    Chief Stonehouse said:

    I'm an engineer and my math mind tells me the best approximation of how many have developed herd is death rate and the relative proportions of mild, acute and death reported from various sources.  This would at least book end the range of herd. Short of a really large random test program to extrapolate to the whole population, death rate makes math sense to figure out where we are with herd.  Even with testing, the politicians will likely mangle the results to meaningless information to keep pitchforks and torches at bay.

    We probably are not very far along.

    I just joined the tribe today.  PP has been invaluable to me over the past three months and I thought I owed CM some cash for his effort.

    I also have a little Native American DNA so I'm not in anyway demeaning NAs.

    C. Stone

     

     

     

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 5:54pm

    #39
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    herd Immunity

    How long does immunity last?

     

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 7:00pm

    stevedaly

    stevedaly

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    Reply to 32, New Highwire video

    Zelenko: HCQ deniers are guilty of mass murder

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4Qubuhs_Pc

    Interview with Dr. Zelenko.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 7:00pm

    JWhite

    JWhite

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    Replying to How long does immunity last?

    Also, is it known if immunity is protective against new mutations of the virus, or only for the original strain?

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 7:10pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Immunity

    Well right after posting my question I watched Chris's new video. Voila he goes into it in great detail.

    Answer not much and not too long apparently.

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 7:11pm

    #43
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Age calculator

    Interesting tool explained on the new Medcram video.

    https://profile.covid-age.com/calculator

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 7:33pm

    #44
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Respiratory Droplet Motion Covid 19

    https://phys.org/news/2020-06-respiratory-droplet-motion-evaporation-covid-type.html

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 7:50pm

    #45
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Joined: May 17 2017

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    Masks in Arkansas

    https://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2020/07/01/governor-wear-masks-now-if-you-want-football-in-the-fall/?fbclid=IwAR2cIpcB65dB7EDYXYr-aLxdhUWS_O9BAzayQBwQ7LPdBjzlG688Lk2ZLxc

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 8:06pm

    #46
    Island girl

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    Henry Ford Hospitals latest HCQ study

    https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

    Full text of publication

    https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext

     

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  • Thu, Jul 02, 2020 - 8:56pm

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Area under the curve

    I agree that if all other things remain equal, lock downs do not change the area under the curve (the integral of cases over time, i.e. total infections) but lower the peak numbers per day and spread out the total cases over a longer period. This is mathematically correct. However, if quarantine reduces transmission, does R actual remain the same? Could not quarantining sick people deprive the virus of new hosts?

    I am curious about the assumptions regarding building herd immunity. I wonder if there might be something different about SARS Cov-2. I too have seen data suggesting some people have limited T cell mediated immunity based on previous exposures to other coronaviruses. However, I have also seen reports of people getting COVID a second time, just as badly as before. Is this because the antibody response is weak? Or, could this be because we have a new mutant D614G circulating now? If the latter, vaccines are going to be hit-or-miss just like the flu shots.

    I'm curious, I read about asymptomatic spreaders. Forgive my ignorance, but if people are asymptomatic, how do we actually conclude they are responsible for spreading the disease? I read a paper about this that estimated asymptomatic spread and it seem to be based on an algorithm (So depends whether assumptions were valid).

    Perhaps we have a chance to change the course of things now that one of the Henry Ford Hospital studies is out.

    I hope they manage to complete their prophylaxis study on nurses, apparently the hospital admisssions have dropped ( agood thing) But fewer care providers to enroll as a consequence...they may have convince hospitals outside their system to join the investigation.

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 6:13am

    #48

    sand_puppy

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    Henry Ford Inpatient Study of HCQ--very positive conclusions

    Henry Ford Hospital System HCQ and Azithromycin Study of Mortality (in patients)

    Conclusion

    Hydroxychloroquine provided a 66% hazard ratio reduction in in-hospital mortality, and hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin 71% reduction when compared to neither treatment (p < 0.001)

    So this is a very strong positive study for HCQ.

    -------------

    Methods

    Consecutive patients admitted with COVID over an 8 week period, age > 18, did not die within 48 hours, retrospective, unblinded, comparative-cohort study driven by protocol that included both steroids and tocilizumab.

    If baseline EKG was > 500 ms, patient was judged to be high cardiac risk, then HCQ and Azith were not given.

    HCQ was reserved for only the most severe COVID cases and for those without elevated cardiac risk.

    ---

    Outcome

    In hospital mortality

    ----

    Crude Results

    1. Total Mortality: 18%

    2. HCQ + Azith: 20%  <-- higher crude mortality as most severe cases were given HCQ.

    3. HCQ alone: 13%

    4. Azith alone: 22%

    5. Torsade de point arrhythmias: none

     

    Propensity Score Analysis:   After-the-fact statistical adjustments to equalize the treated and not-treated groups in gender, race, age, initial oxygen requirement, need for ventilation, BMI, Hypertension, kidney dx, lung dx, heart dx, auto-immune dx.

    .

    Causes of death

    • Respiratory failure: 88%

    ---

    Predictors of Mortality:

    • age>65 years HR:2.6
    • white race HR:1.7
    • CKD HR:1.7
    • reduced O2 saturation level on admission HR:1.5
    • ventilator use during admission HR: 2.2

    Conclusion

    Hydroxychloroquine provided a 66% hazard ratio reduction, and hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin 71% compared to neither treatment (p < 0.001)

    ---

    Dose:

    Hydroxychloroquine was dosed as 400 mg twice daily for 2 doses on day 1, followed by 200 mg twice daily on days 2-5. [SP—good dosing]

    Azithromycin was dosed as 500 mg once daily on day 1 followed by 250 mg once daily for the next 4 days. [SP—good dosing]

    ----

    The decision to GIVE vs NOT GIVE treatment drugs

    “An electrocardiogram (ECK) based algorithm was utilized for hydroxychloroquine use. QTc>500 ms was considered an elevated cardiac risk.”

    1. The combination of hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin was reserved for selected patients with severe COVID-19 and with minimal cardiac risk factors.

    2. A hydroxychloroquine was reserved for patients with severe disease QTc<500 ms, with telemetry monitoring and serial QTc checks.

    ---

    Crude versus Propensity Score adjustment

    So the sickest patients were given HCQ creating a profound bias. To remove this bias, a propensity score was used to match each HCQ receiving patient with a patient not given HCQ. These matched pairs were then compared in their analysis.  Note that the benefits of HCQ were in the initial couple of days.

    ---

    Big limitation is that the study is NOT RANDOMIZED and NOT BLINDED.  So it is an indicator but not considered "proof" to a skeptic.

    Unlike the VA study in Lancet, this study explicitly declared its bias to give HCQ to the sickest patients, and then attempted to statistically compensate for this profound bias with a cohort matching strategy.

     

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 6:49am

    JWhite

    JWhite

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    Replying to HIT and reducing lockdowns

    Regarding point #1, I suggest that these statements are true where a lockdown is not initiated until there is already a curve. But where a lockdown is implemented, along with other NPIs, as soon as the disease is detected in the country or community, then the goal would be to prevent the disease from taking hold in the first place. In this case, as dryam2000 pointed out, the lockdown wouldn’t need to be an extended situation, and the population could be protected from contracting the virus. The lockdowns need to be combined with closure of borders and airports in order to work. An internal lockdown could be lifted, while borders and airports remain closed, except for transport of essential goods, if necessary, until the danger of importing new cases has passed. Another reason lockdowns, which have been implemented late, have been less successful, is that not every household with sick individuals is able to isolate them from the others living in the house. This, combined with imperfect NPI measures inside the home, contributes to spread. I recall reading that the mayor of the South Korean city which experienced a large outbreak had asked citizens to also wear a mask inside their homes during that period. On the other hand, Sweden’s PM stated that the transmission there wasn’t as high as in some countries because a significant percent of the population lives alone. (Stockholm may be an exception – as in any large city, people live in closer proximity to each another.)

    The discussion around herd immunity is quite interesting. One question in my mind is whether there is general agreement in the medical community that herd immunity is expected to happen, or has happened in some places with the SC2 virus, given its’ highly contagious nature and that it appears to have been lab manipulated?  I’m also not clear as to whether immunity extends to a mutated strain.  In other words, is herd immunity assumed to occur in the same way as with pathogens which have completely natural origins?  Hopefully it is.

    In any case, international and cross-border travel is now starting again. European countries have recently opened some borders, but only to countries where the coronavirus is under control. And 4 daily flights between China and the U.S. were scheduled to start soon.  So we will see what happens….

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 6:57am

    #50
    Chief Stonehouse

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    Senior Citizens Hunkering Down - primary cause of lower death rates now?

    We have a friend that is a psychologist and most of her clients are  senior citizens.  She tells me most all are terrified and will not leave their homes.  Could it be that the fast learners in this aged demographic with the where-with-all to significantly isolate is the primary cause, or at least a major cause, in the lowered the death rate curve of present?

    Anyone in the tribe that can execute a study that demonstrates the numbers of seniors with significant isolation capabilities that are hunkered down would add a priceless data point to the discussion.

    This data would suggest that slow learning seniors or ones that can not significantly isolate (i.e. they have to live with a person in a younger demographic that has to go into the public space frequently) are the one's showing up in the death statistics.

    My gut tells me we are likely two pronged with the lower death rate; doctors learning the most effective treatments AND the fast learners in the aged risk group hunkering down.

    This is all anecdotal without data, but a good questionnaire from the AARP data base could give some good indications as to the full set of real causes in the lower death rate of present.

    C. Stone

     

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 7:21am

    JWhite

    JWhite

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    Posts: 104

    Replying to Senior Citizens Hunkering Down

    Long term care facilities have also been a major source of transmission and deaths for the elderly, whether they are slow learners or fast learners.  Once this was identified, there was a big push in many areas, to protect the residents of those facilities, and new protocols have been put in place.  In general, any situation where people must live in close proximity to others and share common spaces such as dining rooms and bathrooms, are experiencing outbreaks.  In many countries, nursing homes, prisons and migrant accommodations are at risk.

    My sense is also that many people who are in high risk groups, including the elderly and also younger people with comorbidities, are trying to protect themselves by staying home if possible.  This is combined with more knowledge in the medical community about how to treat the virus for those who are hospitalized.  Also, some people have pointed out that in many countries the most vulnerable may have already been exposed.  Let's hope the death rates continue to go down!

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 8:36am

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Where's the Zinc?

    Absolutely no mention of Zinc. It has been known for months that the key is Zinc.

    Results would be much better with Zinc

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 9:35am

    #53

    Boomer41

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    Senior Citizens Hunkering Down

    Some senior citizens may be terrified to the point of cowering at home in self-imposed house arrest, but one has to ask what they are achieving. Living as long as possible is not a worthwhile ambition if one's life consists of nothing but staring at four walls and watching network TV.

    Living well as long as possible is much more sensible goal, even if it involves a risk of a shorter life. What is the point of living with no social interaction, no travel, no outdoor activities, no shopping?

    Obviously, taking all of the prudent precautions of hand washing, mask wearing and avoiding mass gatherings of non-mask-wearing hordes is only common sense. But, even with those limits, life can still be not only worth living but actually fun and productive. We are all actors in a play with no rehearsal. We can give a great performance or skulk in the wings afraid to take part.

    Once we get past the proverbial 'three score years and ten' we seniors are living on borrowed time. Sooner or later we are all going to die; most likely from heart disease, cancer or dementia. At our age, Covid-19 is not the most likely reason we will fall off our perch.

    The more of that borrowed time we spend cowering at home the less we have to enjoy what short and rapidly diminishing period we have left.

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 10:21am

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Where's the zinc

    Mohammed Mast and Sand Puppy.

    After re-reading the Henry Ford Hospital Study this morning and noting no zinc was used, I started a literature search on Zinc and ionophores. This paper caught my eye. Back in 2010, Ralph S. Baric and other coronavirus researchers studied the potential for Zn and ionophores to block viral replication in vitro and in cell culture. That's 10 years ago

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21079686/

    What first suprised me was how old these data are. We've known this for a long time. But then what caught my eye and startled me was the author list. Ralph Baric.

    In 2015, Ralph S. Baric and his protege, Shi Zheng Li from Wuhan Institute of Virology, among others, published their creation of a chimeric SARS virus with S protein adapted for greater infectivity and morbidity - part of the gain of function research program:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

    Notice what they report:

    "The results indicate that group 2b viruses encoding the SHC014 spike in a wild-type backbone can efficiently use multiple orthologs of the SARS receptor human angiotensin converting enzyme II (ACE2), replicate efficiently in primary human airway cells and achieve in vitro titers equivalent to epidemic strains of SARS-CoV. [original SARS]

    Additionally, in vivo experiments demonstrate replication of the chimeric virus in mouse lung with notable pathogenesis.

    Evaluation of available SARS-based immune-therapeutic and prophylactic modalities revealed poor efficacy; both monoclonal antibody and vaccine approaches failed to neutralize and protect from infection with CoVs using the novel spike protein."

    We synthetically re-derived an infectious full-length SHC014 recombinant virus and demonstrate robust viral replication both in vitro and in vivo. Our work suggests a potential risk of SARS-CoV re-emergence from viruses currently circulating in bat populations.

    Now if Drs. Baric et al - who are world-renowned coronovirus experts - demonstrated   the potential risk of SARS Cov re-emergence not responsive to immune therapy or potential vaccine therapy via "gain-of-function research, but also did research to show the potential for Zinc and ionophpores might be effective at inhibiting replication of RNA-viruses (of which SARS- COv-2 is one), then why - now that there HAS been a "re-emergence" of  a SARS Cov virus - aren't they vigorously advocating for post-exposure trials of cheap and available Zinc in combo with ionophores (of  chloroquines and quercetin flavanoids are two examples) to mitigate this disease, if their own research shows  this simple treatment has potential but immune modalities don't?

    I'm suffering cognitive and moral dissonance. I think I just went down the rabbit hole.

    Erratum: The investigator's name is Ralph S. Baric, not Robert Baric. My mistake and my apologies. You can see that author list on cited papers.

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 10:47am

    #55
    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Bingo Island Girl

    You are one helluva conspiracy theorist uh I mean realist.

    Rabbit hole indeed

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 12:42pm

    Island girl

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    Feeling a bit stunned

    I could see why pharma would push more expensive alternatives, but what I'm having trouble processing is the academic researchers - the folks doing GOF research, ostensibly to help us confront pandemics, funded "we the people" - aren't now aggressively advocating studies to demonstrate the clinical efficacy of potential readily available interventions they themselves reported.

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 12:44pm

    JWhite

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    Replying to Senior Citizens Hunkering Down

    Great points Boomer - I agree with you.  On the other hand, anyone I know who is 'hunkering down' whether older or younger, sees it as being a short term thing, perhaps for several weeks, not for the rest of their life.  I think they prefer to be 'healthy and hunkered down' rather than 'sick and hunkered down' or in the hospital.  After it passes over they'll go back to being active again.  Of course, if 'this pandemic thing' as Jay Leno calls it, is here to stay, then at-risk people will probably accept that and make adjustments in their life.  Everyone has a different view, different health situation and different values - and some are more risk adverse than others  🙂

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 3:26pm

    Mohammed Mast

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    The Red Pill Island Girl

    Yes when one takes the Red Pill and delves deeper into the Matrix being stunned is a normal reaction.

    US colleges and universities though lily white are far from pristine institutions. The ones  established before the Civil War war were built by slaves or by money from the slave trade. That upstanding gentleman John Hancock himself, who was responsible for the Boston Tea party was a slave owner. Harvard, Yale, Brown, Columbia, UVA and others have deep connections to slavery. The rich contributed mightily to higher education and thus were able to control the narrative.

    https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2017/09/04/shackled-legacy

    J D Rockefeller got the ball rolling by giving millions to tada Johns Hopkins and Harvard for public health. At the same time he was bankrolling the fledgling pharma industry. He even gave money to China for the same reasons. It is naive to think that money came with no strings attached, whether explicit or implied. Virtually all agricultural research is funded by big ag. Do the name Monsanto mean anything to ya? Harvard was involved with the Sugar Association to produce research promoting sugar and downplaying its role in health issues. Articles were published in the New England Journal of Medicine. (are we stunned yet that they would publish negative articles about HCQ?)

    Foundations have been funding chairs at colleges for a long time and wield enormous influence so as we have seen from the Lancet to NEJM money talks and the truth is not on the agenda.

    Thanks for your research.

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 5:52pm

    #59
    Island girl

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    Definitely being red-pilled

    Someone in the community posted this. I think I'm at 3.5.

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 6:35pm

    Mohammed Mast

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    hey Steve

    The Zelenko vid was taken down by Youtube.

    I guess they didn't like him telling the truth about crimes against humanity

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 6:59pm

    Mpup

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    Thanks Island Girl, MM, and Sand Puppy

    For your lucid, informative, truthful, and factual posts regarding the Ford study.  I'm sure most at PP have been sharing this information and  similar thoughts far and wide.    The other thing that struck me odd about the study was  "“Currently, the drug should be used only in hospitalized patients with appropriate monitoring, and as part of study protocols, in accordance with all relevant federal regulations,” Dr. Zervos said."

    We've got a treatment that saves lives and people want to continue playing games.  HCQ has been used safely for 70 years.  Bring on the zinc.  I no doubt have taken the red pill and at a 4.5

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 9:04pm

    Chief Stonehouse

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    Replying to Seniors Hunkering Down

    There is a class of seniors that either live alone in a single dwelling or with their spouse that have few visitors.  These folks are significantly isolated.

    We live in a retirement town with many, many seniors, both living alone and in assisted living communities.  When I discovered the consequences of C19 on PP I was in shock about the possibilities of how decimated our town may become.  So far the effects are hard to direct, and I think it is in part because the seniors are effectively isolating.  In the initial stage we were put into lock down by the State Governor and an arrogance grew that we were exceptional, so the lock down was lifted.  Now we are a national hot spot in the boom stage of cluster, cluster boom.

    They are just trying to survive.  Quality of life is not their concern right now.  They are living perhaps the last days of their lives in deep terror.  These are people that grew up in the 50s and had ideal lives. It is very difficult for them to see what is happening to us.

     

    C. Stone

     

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  • Fri, Jul 03, 2020 - 9:47pm

    gallantfarms

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    Zelenko Video - The Highwire

    The full Highwire episode with the Zelenko interview is still on Youtube for now.

    HCQ segment starts at 38:27 and Zelenko at 41:39.

    Highwire videos are also posted at their web site:  www.thehighwire.com

     

     

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  • Sat, Jul 04, 2020 - 6:10am

    #64

    Oliveoilguy

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    Zelenko Protocol and My Frustration

    I got up this morning frustrated and angry thinking “Why won’t people wake up?” .....There is the PP world which is becoming an echo chamber.....90% of us know HCQ+Zinc is the crux of the solution to Covid. We know it will reduce death, allow people to resume normal activities, and start to heal this country. But how do I reach people outside this informed group?
    I am giving factual info to people who will listen to me, but even “intelligent” people don’t grasp the power of this protocol. My next move is to make an appointment with my family doctor and pay him for an office visit so I can plead my case.....In turn, I will listen to him and see if he has a valid counter argument against HCQ.
    What else can a person do to get the word out and stop the needless suffering?

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  • Sat, Jul 04, 2020 - 7:28am

    JWhite

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    Replying to Replying to Seniors Hunkering Down

    Your comments suggest you meant to reply to Post 53, but absolutely - I agree about the seniors.  My mother is one of those you describe, who lives alone and has self-isolated, although she doesn't seem to be living in terror.  I also have relatives in seniors' homes, where the protocols have changed dramatically in order to protect the residents.  But they all view these changes as being temporary, and in many cases can still find joy in life such as it is.  They spend more time connecting with others on the phone - and a 'social distancing' visit with the grandchildren on the back deck is always a highlight.  Quality of life is a relative term, and my impression is that a lot of us are appreciating the simpler things in life now.  With respect to the elderly, my view is that it's best for them to avoid the news on the television and to spend time outdoors in the fresh air if possible.

    Hopefully the elderly in your community will survive these difficult times.

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  • Sat, Jul 04, 2020 - 7:57am

    Thors Hammer

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    The War on Hydroxychloroquine

    How can we account for the war against  HCQ?  The attacks upon this drug are so extreme that they can only be accounted for by a deeply held ideology on the part of research groups and the organizations that publish their results.

    Elements of that ideology apparently include:

    1- Internalization of the health care for profit value system.

    2- Belief that only drugs that  have received FDA approval and granted patent exclusivity which allows  them to be sold at any price the market will bear are worthwhile.

    3- Belief that anything mentioned by our Orange President is evil and must be eradicated by all means available.

    4- A personal value system that produces results according the source of one's paycheck.

    I've looked at many of the studies that conclude that HCQ is ineffective or dangerous from the standpoint of someone educated in statistical analysis rather than virology. It is immediately obvious that they are studies  designed to fail rather than provide an objective analysis.  Their "Science" is as fraudulent  as bloodletting with leeches.

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  • Sat, Jul 04, 2020 - 8:17am

    Jim H

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    Olive Oil's dilemma

    Let me start my answer by recounting what I wrote on April 4, at the beginning of our epic, crowd-sourced "hydroxychloroquine vs. the deep state" thread containing over 400 posts;

    There are two things I want to illustrate through this thread;

    1)  Hydroxychloroquine, aka HCQ, if used in the proper treatment regime along with Zinc supplement + Zithromax, and if used as early as possible in the course of Covid-19 infection for at risk individuals, is an absolute game changer in terms of the outcome, specifically keeping almost all victims, even those very much at risk, from needing hospitalization at all.

    2)  There are forces at work attempting to make you afraid of this drug by exaggerating the dangers, using the need for gold-std randomized, placebo controlled studies as a cudgel to keep the vast majority of people in the country in the dark – to keep them from rising up and demanding that all efforts be made to manufacture and acquire enough of this drug quickly.  These political forces are attempting to hamstring success of drug outcomes by only allowing this to be used late in the disease course, for patients already on ventilators.  Every day we don’t cry out for HCQ is another day of rising deaths on a ventilator.. another day closer to devastation.  This is apotential learning moment for all… if you understand the efficacy profile of HQC, and yet you see folks like Dr. Fauci brushing it off, you will likely experience some degree of cognitive dissonance.  What’s going on you might say?  Welcome to the Twilight Zone.

    The science is entirely clear.. I refuse to even use the word believe when it comes to the question of whether hydroxychloroquine works.. it works.  The difficulty is that many, many good people are literally brainwashed.  Smart, idealistic people like my friend Zeev in NY are so brainwashed that they will not budge off their position until you present them with a randomized, placebo-controlled study on hydroxychloroquine.  I tell Zeev about Zelenko, and he mouths the NYT line, "he's just a country doctor".  The matrix gives people like Zeev all the ammunition they need to, in their minds, counter your conspiratorial arguments.

    So at the end of the day this is not just a science debate... for many people it ends up being a red pill/blue pill question.. and that is a much bigger, and more complex deal.

    I think the best thing to do is to print out, or send an email, containing a variety of papers, and especially the Harvey Risch (MD, PdD) Yale article supporting early use of HCQ.  We have Zelenko now, so that must be part of any red pilling package.  The Meryl Nass blog post which brilliantly summarizes all of the efforts to hamstring HCQ is something I wanted to write before she did it much better than I could have.

    Our friends and neighbors are literally in a cult..   and CNN, MSNBC, NYT, and WAPO are their cult leaders.  There is no easy answer until and unless the cult leaders are exposed.

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  • Sat, Jul 04, 2020 - 9:13am

    Kathy

    Kathy

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    Kathy said:

    Depending on where you live your doctor may be being silenced.   He may be fully aware and agree but the politicians (who likely want to continue to tank the economy) will take his license and ability to feed his family if he supports HCQ.  Heck, they might even send out CPS like they did with the salon owner.

    The vilification of HCQ by the WHO on a lab made virus is very telling.

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  • Sat, Jul 04, 2020 - 9:22am

    #69

    sand_puppy

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    Parable of the Sower

    I struggle with this also OOG.  My own daughters (one of whom is a nurse) and nephew believe that my advocacy for HCQ is both misguided and that I have been possessed by a cult mind (cult mind = a fixed erroneous belief system held by a tightly knit group of people and which is a price of belonging to that group).

    Unfortunately, if infected, my daughters may not take the HCQ I have provided, and run a higher risk of death because of this.  But they have the right to their own viewpoints.   So I feel sadness, fearfulness at times, personally misunderstood and disrespected.

    I only occasionally speak my understanding, quietly, and offer reference links.  "I have two basic science research papers that show HCQ inhibits SC2 infection in cell cultures.  If you are interested enough I can send you the links?"

    ----------

    The problem is classic among those with a new paradigm of understanding.

    Paraphrasing quite a bit:

    “Listen!  A gardener went out to sow. And as he broadcast seeds, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. [Simple suggestions of "opinion leaders" were enough to destroy the new ideas.]  Other seed fell on rocky ground [firmly fixed contrary beliefs], where [the new viewpoint was considered, but could not disrupt the old frame sufficiently to take root.]   They did not have much soil, and immediately it sprang up, since it had no depth of soil. And when the sun rose, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away.  Other seed fell among thorns [of greed power and profit --Big Pharm, Big Medicine, Big Media, Big Politics], and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no grain.

    And other seeds fell into good soil and produced grain, growing up and increasing and yielding thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold.” And he said, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

    And remember the backfire effect:  the more energy we put into destroying a person's belief system the more they will fight to sustain it.   Very quiet hints and pointers are more effective than passionate, devastating attacks!

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  • Sat, Jul 04, 2020 - 10:03am

    #70
    socaljoe

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    socaljoe said:

    "Half A Million Dead. And Rising"

    Most COVID deaths involved comorbitities, often multiple comorbitities.

    The correct characterization is "COVID was a contributing cause in half a million deaths worldwide".

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  • Sat, Jul 04, 2020 - 10:09am

    #71
    socaljoe

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    socaljoe said:

    The economy was shut down.

    Millions of small businesses were ruined.

    Government spent trillions of dollars.

    All in response to 100 thousand+ deaths where COVID was a contributing factor.

    Each year 500,000 people die of cancer in the US.

    How many dollars does government spend on cancer research?

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  • Sat, Jul 04, 2020 - 11:02am

    Steve

    Steve

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    Why not everybody just wear masks?

    @socaljoe...Let's at least compare apples to apples.  We haven't even had a year of spread in the USA yet, we have gone through shut-down and look at the numbers already.  Can you imagine the cases (and deaths) after having spread a full year in a  fully open society?

    The CDC pinpointed the 1st COVID case in the USA when a traveler entered the Seattle airport on January 15.   That single case is the beginning of just one seed.  These cancer numbers are fully developed after years of experience.

    Let's all just wear masks.

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  • Sat, Jul 04, 2020 - 2:36pm

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Zelenko video

    I watched it last night and it was taken down today!

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  • Sat, Jul 04, 2020 - 2:40pm

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    Cautious discussion language in Henry Ford Hospitals Publication

    Yep, I noticed the same thing. Perhaps they are treading carefully and hedging their language given the reception HCQ has gotten in the press and from the powers that be.

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  • Sun, Jul 05, 2020 - 12:58pm

    true

    true

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    true said:

    Exactly

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 11:13am

    JPetros

    JPetros

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    JPetros said:

    Hi Island Girl, the guy is Robert Baric or Ralf Baric???

    https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/controversial-virus-research-seen-both-as-groundbreaking-reckless/19098107/

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 2:35pm

    Mohammed Mast

    Mohammed Mast

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    Mohammed Mast said:

    It is not Robert Baric. It is Ralph Baric

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  • Wed, Jul 08, 2020 - 5:44pm

    Island girl

    Island girl

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    It is Ralph S Baric

    I was mistaken with the name. I wrote my post in a stunned state. My apologies. It is Ralph S Baric, UNC.

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  • Fri, Jul 10, 2020 - 12:47pm

    #79
    zza

    zza

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    whereby no so-called "herd immunity" is to be expected.

    Contact Report 742 says "whereby no so-called "herd immunity" is to be expected."

    At the beginning of the infection the virus multiplies in the mouth and nasopharynx and if a smear is made of it and an examination is made in the laboratory by looking for the genetic material of the virus in the sample and this is determined, then there will be a reliable result, because such a test usually shows a high accuracy with regard to the new corona virus. Antibody tests are also necessary in order to be able to prove whether a person has already been infected by the corona disease or not, as well as whether or not a person has developed a certain immunity to the virus, which, depending on the case, can be either short-term or long-term, whereby no so-called herd immunity is to be expected. Even the detection of an antibody does not mean a definitive cure or immunity, because the antibodies of this virus can quickly decrease, weaken and possibly completely dissolve again.

    Study - Disappearance of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in a Covid-19 patient after recovery:

    A newly identified severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) is the etiologic agent of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) across the world. An understanding of the antibody responses to the viral components is very important for diagnosis and vaccine development. We herein estimated the longevity of specific antibodies against SARS-CoV-2, and reported antibodies disappeared in a moderate COVID-19 patient within 3 months after the onset of the symptoms.

    The pre-proof for the article is here.

    Case study by Prof. Dr. Martin Scholz (with email) for Sars-Cov-2 treatment of Dr. Vladimir Zelenko.

    Dr. Zelenko’s treatment regimen

    Dr Zelenko's interview by Rudy Giuliani is here.

    Starting at the 22:21 mark , Dr. Zelenko suggests everyone get (infected) to develop "herd immunity".

    At the 23:42 mark, Dr. Zelenko states:

    ... because we can't hide in our appartments/houses forever. The only way to become immune to this virus is to get it and overcome it. Now most people will do that with no problems. There is a subset of patients that will have trouble, We need to have that medication available in every pharmacy and every doctor in this country has to be taught and reassured that they can use this medication without retribution.

    Dr. Zelenko needs to be alerted to the Plajaren assertion:

    ... no so-called herd immunity is to be expected. Even the detection of an antibody does not mean a definitive cure or immunity, because the antibodies of this virus can quickly decrease, weaken and possibly completely dissolve again.

    Contact Report 739 describes symptoms and complications in detail.

    At the 26:44 mark, Dr. Zelenko recommends taking his treatment regimen as a prophylaxis indefinitely, once a week, until an effective vaccine becomes available.

    At the 27:34 mark, Dr. Zelenko suggests those with no co-morbidities (the young):

    ... see probably no.... I wouldn't recommend it (his treatment regimen) because I want them to get it and overcome it and then become essentially protected from it.

    On the closure of schools at the 27:51 mark:

    ... initially they probably should have been closed, because we didn't know much about the virus, ... I would handle initially the same way, but then as information became available, I would have made adjustments very quickly... so once we learned how effective the treatment is, it would have made sense to re-open the world much quicker.

    As per Contact Report 739, children, as asymptomatic spreaders of the virus infection, are also susceptible to symptoms and complications that can be fatal.

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